The Rose Award For 9-11-2009. <Terrorist Edition> <5995>
weheardthenews
three-for-five with three RBI and scored three runs in a 12-5 win over
the Minnesota Twins.
Jack Cust hit one of the Athletics' five home runs and Clayton
Mortensen earned his first major league victory.
powrwrap
Rose, who made 10,328 outs. Hank Aaron is next on that dubious list at
9,136.
One of Rose's greatest claims to fame is hitting .300 in nine
consecutive seasons (1965-73). But Cobb did it 23 years in a row, Stan
Musial 16 and Tony Gwynn 17.
When it comes to career batting average, Rose is no better than tied
for 170th — with Mike Greenwell and Buddy Myer — at .3028 (rounded up
to .303).
Rose led the National League in batting three times. Contemporaries
Roberto Clemente and Bill Madlock each won four NL batting crowns
before Gwynn won seven times in an 11-year span (1987-97).
In the American League, infielders Rod Carew won seven batting titles
and Wade Boggs five in six years.
Rose's highest single-season batting average was .348 in 1969. In the
next six seasons, Rico Carty (.366), Joe Torre (.363), Ralph Garr (.
353) and Madlock (.354) — none of whom are headed to Cooperstown
solely on the merits of their playing careers — led the NL with higher
averages.
Although he won NL Rookie of the Year honors in 1963, Rose was hardly
the best young hitter of his era. The Minnesota Twins' Tony Oliva won
batting titles his first two seasons. As a rookie in 1964, Oliva
batted .323 and hit 32 home runs, leading to a slugging percentage of .
557. That year, Rose hit .269 and slugged .326.
weheardthenews
> No hitter has come close to being responsible for as many failures as
> Rose, who made 10,328 outs. Hank Aaron is next on that dubious list at
> 9,136.
So what's your point? That you're going to overlook their
accomplishments or that you hate the Jewish and the blacks?
>
> One of Rose's greatest claims to fame is hitting .300 in nine
> consecutive seasons (1965-73). But Cobb did it 23 years in a row, Stan
> Musial 16 and Tony Gwynn 17.
The slider and split-finger wasn't around in Ty's era or Musial.
Gwynn? Well, there's a lot of power packed in those Big Macs.
>
> When it comes to career batting average, Rose is no better than tied
> for 170th — with Mike Greenwell and Buddy Myer — at .3028 (rounded up
> to .303).
Look at all the players who played in the majors. 170th is quite an
accomplishment.
>
> Rose led the National League in batting three times. Contemporaries
> Roberto Clemente and Bill Madlock each won four NL batting crowns
> before Gwynn won seven times in an 11-year span (1987-97).
Like we said, those Big Macs.
>
> In the American League, infielders Rod Carew won seven batting titles
> and Wade Boggs five in six years.
But look at the crappy way Carew treated his daughter.
>
> Rose's highest single-season batting average was .348 in 1969. In the
> next six seasons, Rico Carty (.366), Joe Torre (.363), Ralph Garr (.
> 353) and Madlock (.354) — none of whom are headed to Cooperstown
> solely on the merits of their playing careers — led the NL with higher
> averages.
You really have a thing for batting averages. Was your mother scared
by Ted Williams when you were born?
>
> Although he won NL Rookie of the Year honors in 1963, Rose was hardly
> the best young hitter of his era. The Minnesota Twins' Tony Oliva won
> batting titles his first two seasons. As a rookie in 1964, Oliva
> batted .323 and hit 32 home runs, leading to a slugging percentage of .
> 557. That year, Rose hit .269 and slugged .326.
And when all is said and done, players like Ruth, DiMaggio, Williams,
Bonds, Clemente, Madlock, Cobb, Mantle, and even Greg Luzinski!!!!!!!,
can only dream about acquiring 4,256 hits. Even Fred Patek. Think
about it.
jr92
Rose's making the most outs of anyone is one of the greatest arguments
against Pete that his detractors use against him.
However, no one uses THIS thought when comparing how great a hitter he
really was. Follow me on this:
NO ONE argues that a .300 batting average is considered a standard of
excellance, no matter what era, unless he is willing to admit he his a
moron.
Admitting that, then one can assume that Rose maintained that
standared of excellence for more at-bats, more games, more seasons,
than anyone who ever played the game!
John Poutre
"weheardthenews" <weheard...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:2e1f0d8e-761a-4dc0...@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 12, 1:50 pm, powrwrap <powrw...@aol.com> wrote:
> No hitter has come close to being responsible for as many failures as
> Rose, who made 10,328 outs. Hank Aaron is next on that dubious list at
> 9,136.
And idiot boy has not a single legit comeback, game, set, match, Powrwrap!
Will in New Haven
The Outs and the Hits reflect the same fact. He was good enough that
managers put him in the game for a very long time. Except for the time
when HE was his own manager, that is very good evidence.
However, no one would name him to an All-time all-star team, even if
they had to go three deep. Since he couldn't make it as a Second
Baseman and he was not a great player while he played First Base, all
we have to do is find three Third Basemen and nine Outfielders who
would clearly play ahead of Rose and we can demonstrate this. No
active players are eligible.
Third: Schmidt, Mathews, Brett. It would be pretty easy to name three
more.
Outfield: Henderson, Musial, Ted Williams, Cobb, Mantle, Mays,
Speaker, Ruth, Frank Robinson. It would be easy to name nine more.
This doesn't disqualify Rose from the HoF. I believe it is his
ineligibility for the Hall that keeps people going on and on that he
was a much greater player than he was.
--
Will in New Haven
jr92
The outs, hits, AND .300 average all reflect the same fact. Once
again, the .300 average is, and has been, a standard of excellence for
many decades. Rose had a higher batting average over his, what, 23
year career than almost everyone else during this period. The very few
who had a higher average simply were unable to play at this
competitive level for nearly as long as Pete, which only makes his
record even more impressive.
You think it is easy to be good enough at such a highly skilled
profession to last 23 years, or hang around to have the record as
"most outs made?'
How come now one else has even approached this????????
> However, no one would name him to an All-time all-star team, even if
> they had to go three deep. Since he couldn't make it as a Second
> Baseman and he was not a great player while he played First Base, all
> we have to do is find three Third Basemen and nine Outfielders who
> would clearly play ahead of Rose and we can demonstrate this. No
> active players are eligible.
>
Rose has made a lot of "all time all star teams" Even rated pretty
high on an "all century team" if I recall correctly.
Wonder how many of the Second basemen, First Basemen, Third basemen,
or outfielders you can come up with were skilled enough to be able to
play at the highest level of baseball at five different positions for
500 each??????
> Third: Schmidt, Mathews, Brett. It would be pretty easy to name three
> more.
> Outfield: Henderson, Musial, Ted Williams, Cobb, Mantle, Mays,
> Speaker, Ruth, Frank Robinson. It would be easy to name nine more.
>
How high would you rate Schmidt as an all time right fielder????? How
about Brett as a left fielder????? Williams at third base??????
Henderson at second base???? Cobb at first base????? Mays or Mantle
at third base?????
Could any of these players moved to so many different positions and
continue to perform at such a high level??? Pretty doubtful.
The only player I see on the list you mentioned that may have been as
versitile as Rose may have been Ruth. Not so sure Rose could have
pitched effectivly in the Big Leagues.
And each time Pete moved to a new postion, it was to help his team.
Each time he moved to a new postion, the team got better. Another
great thing about Rose. He would do whatever it took to help his team
win. No small wonder he played in more winning games than anyone in
history.
> This doesn't disqualify Rose from the HoF. I believe it is his
> ineligibility for the Hall that keeps people going on and on that he
> was a much greater player than he was.
>
Disagree 100% with you on this. I believe his HOF ineligibility keep
his detracters trying to point out the he was overrated as a baseball
player, just to make sure he stays inelgible.
> --
> Will in New Haven- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Will in New Haven
> On Sep 13, 2:29 pm, Will in New Haven
>
> > This doesn't disqualify Rose from the HoF. I believe it is his
> > ineligibility for the Hall that keeps people going on and on that he
> > was a much greater player than he was.
>
> Disagree 100% with you on this. I believe his HOF ineligibility keep
> his detracters trying to point out the he was overrated as a baseball
> player, just to make sure he stays inelgible.
That's not true of me, at any rate. I want the "Pete Rose Rule"
rescinded because being ineligible to coach or manage should _not_
keep one from being eligible for the Hall. It is an injustice that Joe
Jackson and that bunch were eligible for all that time and Pete has
not been. I have heard that Pete doesn't want these things
disconnected, that he insists that he be reinstated into Organized
Baseball before he would accept being elected to the Hall. If that is
the case, he will have to wait until he is dead as far as I am
concerned. The rule was on the wall of a lot of clubhouses while he
was playing in all those games and winning so many of them.
If he were eligible and I had a vote, I would vote for him. But his
election to the All-Century team was almost entirely due to his
_in_eligibility for the Hall. No one would rather have Pete Rose in
the outfield than Frank Robinson except some toothless rednecks.
weheardthenews
>
> - Show quoted text -
Not only is powrwrap a moron, he's also a bigot! He hates Jewish and
blacks!!! My, my, it takes all kinds.
brianj
>
> - Show quoted text -
Can you prove that you are Jewish and black? Because I have my
doubts. Anyway, I don't think that's why he feels as he does about
you and your idol.
brianj
weheardthenews
>
> - Show quoted text -
We like kosher watermelon.
Anyway, let powrwrap speak for himself.
Tonawanda KARDEX
> > No hitter has come close to being responsible for as many failures as
> > Rose, who made 10,328 outs. Hank Aaron is next on that dubious list at
> > 9,136.
>
> And idiot boy has not a single legit comeback, game, set, match, Powrwrap!
Ghey ($1).
Rose has more hits than anyone else, period. When the sabergeeks find
a new god in a few years, all your paradigms will have to shift ...
again.
And Rose will still have more hits than any other player, ever.
Get over it.
Tonawanda KARDEX
<bill.re...@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
> However, no one would name him to an All-time all-star team, even if
> they had to go three deep. Since he couldn't make it as a Second
> Baseman and he was not a great player while he played First Base, all
> we have to do is find three Third Basemen and nine Outfielders who
> would clearly play ahead of Rose and we can demonstrate this. No
> active players are eligible.
His versatility is what makes him valuable to such a team, actually.
Thanks for making the pro-Rose argument for those who adore him.
Tonawanda KARDEX
Does he have to? A bigot is a bigot, no matter from which angle we see
it.
Will in New Haven
wrote:
His versatility was a huge asset, especially when he moved to Third to
make room for a more productive offensive player in Left. When he was
eking out all those hits as an over-the-hill First Baseman it wasn't
so evident.
He still isn't going into the Hall until he dies. I think I'd feel bad
about that if it weren't for guys like you. He was fun to watch,
usually had a great attitude as a player. But the constant Pete-
worship from, mostly, assholes gets old. You might do his cause more
good by not adoring him.
weheardthenews
Willy, let's all hope that you die before Pete.
Will in New Haven
I'm sure you do hope that. I don't particularly care whether I outlive
him or not. I' just enjoy every day that the toothless redneck Pete
Rose lovers have to suffer the terrible injustice of his not being in
the Hall. I don't even deny it is an injustice and I believe that he
should go in eventually but your helpless rage and pain is a pleasure
to behold. I guess I'm not a nice person.
weheardthenews
>
> - Show quoted text -
Everyone in the newsgroups has high hopes that you die before Pete.
It's nothing personal.
And everyone thinks that you're a nice person, but also an asshole.
You're a nice asshole.
Will in New Haven
By "everyone in this newsgroup," you mean yourself and one or possibly
two other Rose-obsessed piles of horse-shit. You have this newsgroup
pretty much to yourself because people get tired of watching you eat
out Pete Rose's ass.
weheardthenews
Not "everyone in this newsgroup," we said "everyone in the
newsgroups." In other words, all of Usenet knows you're a nice
asshole. Do you feel kind of like a celebrity?
Will in New Haven
I feel like someone who knows that Pete Rose isn't getting into the
Hall until he fucking coughs up his lungs and goes for his dirtnap.
Feeling good about that isn't nice but I feel good about it.
Tonawanda KARDEX
<bill.re...@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
> On Sep 20, 1:02 pm, Tonawanda KARDEX <tonawandakar...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Sep 13, 11:29 am, Will in New Haven
>
> > <bill.re...@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
> > > However, no one would name him to an All-time all-star team, even if
> > > they had to go three deep. Since he couldn't make it as a Second
> > > Baseman and he was not a great player while he played First Base, all
> > > we have to do is find three Third Basemen and nine Outfielders who
> > > would clearly play ahead of Rose and we can demonstrate this. No
> > > active players are eligible.
>
> > His versatility is what makes him valuable to such a team, actually.
>
> > Thanks for making the pro-Rose argument for those who adore him.
>
> His versatility was a huge asset, especially when he moved to Third to
> make room for a more productive offensive player in Left. When he was
> eking out all those hits as an over-the-hill First Baseman it wasn't
> so evident.
>
> He still isn't going into the Hall until he dies. I think I'd feel bad
> about that if it weren't for guys like you. He was fun to watch,
> usually had a great attitude as a player. But the constant Pete-
> worship from, mostly, assholes gets old. You might do his cause more
> good by not adoring him.
RIF: I didn't say *I* adored him. HTH.
But I certainly respect what he did in his playing career.
Will in New Haven
Of course. So do I. And I admit that I would really like them to
disconnect the issues of being able to work in the game and being
eligible for the Hall. The two had never been connected before and it
is unjust that Rose be treated worse, in a sense, than Chick Gandil or
Joe Jackson. But he evidently doesn't want that. He won't accept being
eligible for the Hall without being reinstated and that tears it. He
saw that sign on the wall every day for many, many years. If they make
him eligible for the Hall against his will, as it were, and don't
reinstate him I would urge people with a vote to vote for him. But I
would be against his being eligible to coach or manage again.
weheardthenews
>
> - Show quoted text -
Willy, you don't know enough about baseball to respect any player.
You didn't even know that a basketball could be thrown 350 feet.
powrwrap
>
> Willy, you don't know enough about baseball to respect any player.
> You didn't even know that a basketball could be thrown 350 feet.
Tonight, on non sequitur theater...