Joe Crede
brianj
the perfect guy for the part this year. In everything I have read,
the big question mark is whether Danny Valencia is ready to play ML
baseball every day. No one is saying he is. I am assuming that,
given his history, Crede could be pretty inexpensive and could be
signed to an incentive-laden contract.
Crede was an asset to the Twins in 2009. He wasn't terribly
expensive, and when he played he played well. If he seems as healthy
as he did last year, why not sign him and let him platoon with
Valencia until everybody is convinced Valencia is ready? I know this
flies in the face of my constant raving that Gomez should have been at
AAA because MLB is not where you learn the game, and maybe it would
change my mind if I learned just exactly what people mean when they
say Valencia isn't ready.
But Crede is a pretty good 3B, and if Valencia is our man of the
future in that role, it looks like a sensible thing to have them both
on the roster, at least to start the season. If Crede turns out to
be unable to play, we may have a problem. But if Valencia is good
enough, then we don't. Also, if it turns out Valencia really is
ready, Crede can be traded (or released if he can't play) during the
season, thus opening the spot on the roster.
That's my vote.
brianj
powrwrap
ABs.
Crede's numbers for the past three years--.232/.293/.413. He's pretty
consistently lousy.
So I would expect yet another year of .230/.290/.414 out of Crede.
That is not the kind of production you want from a corner infielder,
heck, from anybody. Do I need to bring up K-K Gomez? OK, his numbers
last year were: .229/.287/.387. If the Twins sign Crede, we will get
Gomez like numbers. Deja vu all over again. Do we really want this?
Since both Crede and Valencia bat right-handed, there would be no
platoon advantage.
Crede's career minor league numbers: .291/.352/.462 (2,777 ABs)
Valencia's career minor league numbers: .299/.354/.480 (1,635 ABs)
I'd say Valencia is ready to take a stab at the majors.
Now, if the Twins shocked us and picked up Adrian Beltre, Juan Uribe
or Chone Figgins, that would solve the problem. Otherwise, I'm willing
to give Valencia a shot at the job.
brianj
I don't exactly disagree with you, and I have been sort of salivating
over the idea of Chone Figgins.
But, Crede plays a pretty good 3B, I think, and he had 15 HR in 333 at
bats. I think that is the equivalent of over 27 HR for a full
season. I know the injury thing is scary, and I think everybody would
say that it is the injuries that have held Crede back recent years.
Platoon wasn't maybe a good choice of words on my part. What I meant
was that Crede and Valencia would share the duties until one rose to
the top. And I think everybody would go at it knowing that Valencia
is the guy we want in the role, so that if he is working out, Crede is
going to cool his heels, though he could still DH as needed, and he
could fill in to rest Valencia. (Maybe he could mow the lawn some
days, too. They will need somebody this year.) I don't know. Crede
might not love that arrangement, but given the past 3 years, that
might be the best offer he gets this year.
brianj
powrwrap
job at third base.
I suppose with K-K gone, and Delmon full time in LF, there is a need
for a right-handed DH to face lefties and give Kubel a rest, or a
right-handed batting bench player. If Crede is willing to take that
role for not very much money, then I'm for signing him. If he's
looking for $6M a year, forget it.
Matt
> I like your idea of having Crede and Valencia battle it out for the
> job at third base.
Or let Valencia and Hicks battle it out.
Matt
brianj
I think the Twins paid him something like $2.5 million this year, and
I can't remember how that was structured, but it seems like it had a
lot of incentives for playing time, didn't it? Do you think he is
likely to get a better offer than that?
brianj
powrwrap
>
> I think the Twins paid him something like $2.5 million this year, and
> I can't remember how that was structured, but it seems like it had a
> lot of incentives for playing time, didn't it? Do you think he is
> likely to get a better offer than that?
He had incentives based on plate appearances. More plate appearances,
more money. I think he will get a better deal next year. I think it
will be another incentive laden deal but the base will be higher,
maybe $4M plus incentives.
John Gregory
> Crede was nothing special last year
An asset? Or nothing special? Perhaps both.
Despite an OPS unlikely to draw All-Star mention, his was still
higher than any other Twin who spent significant time playing
3rd. Unless someone else would have magically stepped it up
by being handed Crede's plate appearances, the team had better
production at 3rd with him than without him; better, in particular,
than you could obtain at no significant cost via a minor league
transaction. That's almost by definition an asset.
Among 12 guys with > 200 AB, Crede's OPS ranked 8th on the team.
He was outhit by a catcher (OK, he gets a pass there) and a
shortstop (the much maligned O.C.) At a position where you
expect offense, that's nothing special.
The core issue is that the Twins have had no one, for several
years, who can produce at an average major league level for
third basemen. That's a problem.
Solving a problem, by discarding an asset who's best of a bad
lot, requires having something better waiting in the wings.
Without the latter, it's hard to advocate the former. That's
a puzzle, for Bill Smith to work out.
> --.225/.289/.414, 15 HRs in 333 ABs.
>...
> Do I need to bring up K-K Gomez? OK, his numbers
> last year were: .229/.287/.387.
Clean your trifocals, Alan. I had to look twice too, but No-No Gomez
had a SLG of .337.
> If the Twins sign Crede, we will get
> Gomez like numbers. Deja vu all over again. Do we really want this?
You defame Crede terribly to place him in such miserable company.
Slander and libel too. :)
> Since both Crede and Valencia bat right-handed, there would be no
> platoon advantage.
This comes down to batting styles and talents, but it's possible a
different platoon than L/R could work. Say Valencia turns out
to be the stereotypical rookie who has trouble with major league
breaking pitches, while Crede exemplifies the "book" that says
to throw fewer off-speed pitches to a player who's past 30. It
comes down (as always) to accurate scouting of one's own players,
but it's not ridiculous to think of platooning two unlike players
based on matchups. Let Gardy earn his salary and the Manager Of
The Year votes.
> Crede's career minor league numbers: .291/.352/.462 (2,777 ABs)
> Valencia's career minor league numbers: .299/.354/.480 (1,635 ABs)
>
> I'd say Valencia is ready to take a stab at the majors.
I'll go along. It's not like he's super young, anyway. If he
isn't ready at age 25 next season, good chance he'll never be.
But this also suggests a lower ceiling for him than for someone
younger, so that at best he might do about as well as a healthy
Crede (who we may never see). What the Twins really need is a
high-ceiling guy.
--
John Gregory ashbury at skypoint.com http://www.skypoint.com/ tilde ashbury
Thought for the moment:
Guests who kill talk show hosts--On the last Geraldo.
powrwrap
> On Tue, 10 Nov 2009, powrwrap wrote:
> > Crede was nothing special last year
>
> An asset? Or nothing special? Perhaps both.
I think you are right in saying he is both. That says volumes about
the Twins problems finding a third baseman.
> The core issue is that the Twins have had no one, for several
> years, who can produce at an average major league level for
> third basemen. That's a problem.
Among MLB third baseman with at least 350 plate appearances, Joe Crede
ranks 31st in BA and OBA, dead last.
> Solving a problem, by discarding an asset who's best of a bad
> lot, requires having something better waiting in the wings.
> Without the latter, it's hard to advocate the former. That's
> a puzzle, for Bill Smith to work out.
>
> > --.225/.289/.414, 15 HRs in 333 ABs.
> >...
> > Do I need to bring up K-K Gomez? OK, his numbers
> > last year were: .229/.287/.387.
>
> Clean your trifocals, Alan. I had to look twice too, but No-No Gomez
> had a SLG of .337.
Oops. Yes, it was a typo on my part. That SLG% ranks 104th in all of
MLB for outfielders with at least 300 PA's. There are only two players
with a lower SLG %.
> > Since both Crede and Valencia bat right-handed, there would be no
> > platoon advantage.
>
> This comes down to batting styles and talents, but it's possible a
> different platoon than L/R could work.
I see that for Crede there is virtually no difference vs. lefties or
righties. I can't find the splits for Valencia.
> Say Valencia turns out
> to be the stereotypical rookie who has trouble with major league
> breaking pitches, while Crede exemplifies the "book" that says
> to throw fewer off-speed pitches to a player who's past 30. It
> comes down (as always) to accurate scouting of one's own players,
> but it's not ridiculous to think of platooning two unlike players
> based on matchups. Let Gardy earn his salary and the Manager Of
> The Year votes.
Somehow I don't see Gardy platooning players based on individual
pitcher matchups.