Todd Ritchie question
Soxwin1
Adam
DrCrawdad
sox...@aol.com wrote on 12/8/02 8:59 AM:
> Does anyone know if the Sox offered Todd Ritchie arbitration?
>
> Adam
Looks like the Sox did not offer arbitration to Todd Ritchie or everyone's
favorite little lefty Jim Parque.
Maybe the Cubs will swoop in and sign Parque so Jim can join Sirotka on
their staff.
Anthony Giacalone
<Bubbam...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4qt7vuoc34r960i65...@4ax.com...
> If the costs are the same, why not. There is no downside to the Cubs
> signing Sirotka, he is cheap and if he does make a comeback the
> possible upside is great. If it was the same for Parque I'd say sure
> go get him. Now that great innings eater that everyone was so happy to
> have last spring when you all were so sure that Wells and Fogg were
> useless, I'd let him sink into the Sanitary and Ship canal.
I agree with you on Sirtka, Bubbamike. But c'mon about Ritchie! I was more
optimistic about him than most and even I didn't think that he'd be more
than a league average pitcher (around 4.60-4.70 ERA). I was down on the
trade overall since I thought that we shouldn't have given up on Kip and I
thought (and still think) that Eddie Yan won't be able to hit enough or with
enough power to make his speed worthwhile. I wrote "I haven't yet criticized
the Ritchie trade, although it doesn't look good thus far. I like Damaso
Marte, despite the fact that Kenny gave away his third best prospect to get
a guy that Pittsburgh was going to cut."
-- Anthony Giacalone
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Anthony Giacalone
Guerrier trades were separate. I had pushed them together in my brain.
"Anthony Giacalone" <giac...@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:at12oo$ufibc$1...@ID-133338.news.dfncis.de...
DrCrawdad
Bubbam...@yahoo.com at Bubbam...@yahoo.com wrote on 12/8/02 7:54 PM:
> If the costs are the same, why not. There is no downside to the Cubs
> signing Sirotka, he is cheap and if he does make a comeback the
> possible upside is great. If it was the same for Parque I'd say sure
> go get him. Now that great innings eater that everyone was so happy to
> have last spring when you all were so sure that Wells and Fogg were
> useless, I'd let him sink into the Sanitary and Ship canal.
>
> Bubba
Bubba,
The Cubs brass seem to like former Sox pitchers.
Signing Sirotka was a good move by the lefty starved Cubs. I'm not too
concerned if the Sox lose Parque, be it to the Cubs or someone else.
I hope Sirotka does well for the Cubs. Mike hasn't pitched since 2000 so it
will be interesting to watch how Mike throws.
The Wells/Sirotka trade didn't work out too well for either the Sox or the
Blue Jays. All the Jays got in the end was one year of Kevin Beirne and
that outfielder who's name I can't remember at the moment.
I don't remember anyone saying that Wells and/or Fogg were useless. IIRC
Fogg was the player that was overlooked by everyone, except perhaps the
Pirates scouts. I don't remember any of the baseball gurus (Baseball
America) predicting much out of Fogg.
Kipp had some golden games. I seem to remember Kipp beating the Cubs (ok,
no big deal there) and then giving up a milestone HR to Barry Bonds.
Sean Lowe was the pitcher that most Sox fans were crying about losing in the
trade. Lowe was then released by both the Pirates and the Rockies last
season.
Toad Ritchie may end up being a free agent soon. Maybe the Cubs will sign
Toad?
-DrCrawdad.
Soxwin1
>Guerrier trades were separate. I had pushed them together in my brain.
All of KW's trades tend to blend together since they are all so lousy.
Adam
Carlo Paz
dcros...@hotmail.com says...
> in article 4qt7vuoc34r960i65...@4ax.com,
> Bubbam...@yahoo.com at Bubbam...@yahoo.com wrote on 12/8/02 7:54 PM:
>
> > On Sun, 08 Dec 2002 13:04:27 -0600, DrCrawdad <dcros...@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> in article 20021208095932...@mb-fe.aol.com, Soxwin1 at
> >> sox...@aol.com wrote on 12/8/02 8:59 AM:
> >>
> >>> Does anyone know if the Sox offered Todd Ritchie arbitration?
> >>>
> >>> Adam
> >>
> >> Looks like the Sox did not offer arbitration to Todd Ritchie or everyone's
> >> favorite little lefty Jim Parque.
> >>
> >> Maybe the Cubs will swoop in and sign Parque so Jim can join Sirotka on
> >> their staff.
> >
> > If the costs are the same, why not. There is no downside to the Cubs
> > signing Sirotka, he is cheap and if he does make a comeback the
> > possible upside is great. If it was the same for Parque I'd say sure
> > go get him. Now that great innings eater that everyone was so happy to
> > have last spring when you all were so sure that Wells and Fogg were
> > useless, I'd let him sink into the Sanitary and Ship canal.
> >
> > Bubba
>
Ritchie trade. I doubt that I commented on it at the time, but Fogg was
the only one of the three I was VERY sorry to see go. In the time he was
up with the Sox at the end of the previous season he impressed me
greatly, especially his curve ball. Wells for Ritchie or Lowe for
Ritchie straight up might have been an OK idea, but...well, you know the
rest.
DrCrawdad
Bubbam...@yahoo.com at Bubbam...@yahoo.com wrote on 12/9/02 11:10 PM:
> On Mon, 09 Dec 2002 05:02:24 GMT, Carlo Paz <Carl...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> I don't remember anyone in this group having a positive reaction to the
>> Ritchie trade. I doubt that I commented on it at the time, but Fogg was
>> the only one of the three I was VERY sorry to see go. In the time he was
>> up with the Sox at the end of the previous season he impressed me
>> greatly, especially his curve ball. Wells for Ritchie or Lowe for
>> Ritchie straight up might have been an OK idea, but...well, you know the
>> rest.
>
> Selective memory. Most of the posters except those who had a brain
> were cheering how they got rid of head case Wells and that Fogg was a
> nobody. Meanwhile they were getting this great innings eater who would
> lead the team.
>
> Yeah right.
>
> Bubba
"Most of the posters except those who had a brain were cheering..."
I don't remember that being the case of posters here or other places. I
just looked back at Google from October 2001 to March 2002, only 1 post fits
what you've described. From just about everywhere Sox fans hoped the trade
would work out but most were very skeptical and many, many downright down on
KW and the deal.
Anthony Giacalone
hated it: Cavatica, you, me (although I thought Ritchie would be about
average), Persons, Baba Booey, Mark Edward, Benton, Sdarchir
Steve B supported the trade. Adam was happy to get rid of Wells. Giovonni,
like Adam, criticized Wells's mental makeup and both compared him to Scott
Ruffcorn. David Nix liked getting Ritchie.
Sdarchir suggested that the trade was orchestrated by JR to get his name in
the papers. He was kidding. . . . I think.
-- Anthony Giacalone
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Proud Sponsor of the 1977 Chicago White Sox reference page at
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"DrCrawdad" <dcros...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:BA1AD887.46FF3%dcros...@hotmail.com...
Tom Benton
rationale for the trade sounded a lot like the rationale for the trade that
brought us Navarro. What else did I say?
"Anthony Giacalone" <giac...@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:at41oo$103vc8$1...@ID-133338.news.dfncis.de...
Blue KoolAid
There goes the so-called Sox fan BM slamming Sox fans again. Funny
thing is that if anyone posted a message on the Cubs NG like BM does
here BM would relentlessly attack.
Anthony Giacalone
to Navarro as a "against the trade" vote.
"Tom Benton" <tbe...@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
news:zjkJ9.26895$Vz2.7...@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
Tom Benton
"Anthony Giacalone" <giac...@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:at536n$10b9fk$1...@ID-133338.news.dfncis.de...
Soxwin1
I still stand by that comment. While the Sox gave up too much for Ritchie, I
had no problem dumping Wells. There was something about him and how long he
took between pitches that just bugged me. It still does. I still think that
the Sox gave up too much potential for a guy who is nothing. I never said
Wells wasn't going to eventually be successful, just that he seemed to be a
head case and odds were against it.
Adam
Anthony Giacalone
than I. I just posted what you posted and I didn't want to put other words
in your mouth.
"Soxwin1" <sox...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021210215926...@mb-cu.aol.com...
Soxwin1
>than I. I just posted what you posted and I didn't want to put other words
>in your mouth.
I appreciate that. I just wanted to reiterate that I have not changed my mind
about trading Kip at the time the Sox did. Even if Kip pitches like a legit
number one starter for the next 10 years, I don't think he would have had
similar success in a Sox uniform. Of course I also don't think he'll ever be
a legit #1 starter.
Adam
Steve B.
trade...and boom there's the proof!
Seriously, a guy like Ritchie was not a bad gamble. I'll admit he wasn't
worth a 3 for 1 deal (KW's favorite kind). What was positive about Ritchie
was that he didn't fit KW's prior moves for "seasoned veterans".
Unfortunately, he needs to take that risk again this year in an attempt to
unearth a decent mid-rotation guy, but the Ritchie deal will probably make
him gun shy...too bad in my opinion.
, "Anthony Giacalone" <giac...@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:at41oo$103vc8$1...@ID-133338.news.dfncis.de...