Next Year? Why wait.
Greg Arther
Hi fellow tortured Angels fans;
I've seen it all in Anaheim, you probably have too, no problem they're still
my team, but I have never seen a more roll over and die, effortless bunch of
whining losers than the 1998 Angels. The Angels should be running away with
their division instead they're barely playing .500 baseball. It's a sad
situation. What the hell is going on with them! They have absolutley no
desire to win. When you're six games back, look on the scoreboard and see
the team in front of you getting pounded 8-0 you'd think that would be
motivation to win. Not so in Anaheim. Tonight I watched Anderson hit a
grand slam in the first, (unbelievable as it sseemed, he being the king of
non effort) and then watched the entire team just melt for the worst,
absolute worst team in the American league, second only to the Marlins all
of baseball. I am so in shock that our team gets beaten by a retread like
Belcher and lays down while blowing yet Another 4+ run lead. Not only
that, but sitting behind the dugout tonight, I had to dodge trinket vendors,
bears, and a whole host of shannanigans (sp) again for 9 innings. Having
been a non bandwagoner for the whole ' Disney is ruining baseball' catcall
I can't help but really wonder if the product they're selling is fireworks
and kids running the bases or contending baseball? Excuse time is over
for these guys. All I can do is give away season tickets, if I can
convince people to take them, until there is some change on that field.
Heres a good start;
1. Fire the trainer and team doctor. These guys obviously can't train the
players and can't properly diagnose and treat an injury. What ML team has 7
guys on the DL continuously?
2. Trade Bait (for any pitcher with an ERA under 4.00) These guys are
expendable.
Anderson...overrated... laziest guy on the team.
Garcia...who?
Martin...who?
Nevin...times up, remember a guy named Greg Brock?
Watson...who paid this chump 3 mil?
Dickson...times up
Delucia....never was.
From this pool of so-so talent there are almost two 4 for one's and
cash...lets face it these guys suck, they're merely placeholders on the
roster....with the exception of Anderson who can hit sometimes, but thats
about all. Unload these seven for 2 above average players and fill the
rest with Midland and Vancouver standouts.
"Rush" those minor league guys up here, by all means. This waiting until a
guy is 26 or so is bull, what do they think they'll have to face "major
league pitching"? Don't think so in this league.
3. Sit the lazy, effortless, millionaire chumps who don't run out ground
balls and take check swings three times for a strikeout or better yet trade
them.
That would just about do it. This team has the talent to do it, but what
are they gonna do sit around and talk about it until september again making
excuses?
BTW Can anyone stand listening to that goofball on TV call the game and
make up stupid I'm okay you're okay anecdotes about the failure of the team
to win? If it weren't for the medicated ramblings of Sparky, the TV
broadcasts would be unwatchable.
This whole season is a bust so far. New stadium...tired of hearing about
it, big deal. Lets see some winning, there is plenty of time if they start
making some personnel moves now.
Am I nuts or does anyone agree, please tell.
greg
SKI333
No,your not crazy,most of what you said is right on. I think Hollins
should be added to your list also,I hesitate to say that because the guy
really tries hard,but it just isn't happening for him anymore,sadly.
My god,as of now Olivares is the most reliable pitcher on the staff,that
should be telling management its time to deal or bring someone up.
While every team has one or two great players,the overall quality of
most teams is at lower level then in the past due to expansion,the jump
from AAA ball to the majors is not as severe as in the past,so there is
no reason to keep a player down if he shows promise,regardless of age.
Does anyone know why Washburn keeps getting called up and sent back
without throwing a pitch when we got guys like Watson and Dickson who
couldn't hit a bull in the ass with a beachball at five feet?
krist...@delphi.com
"Greg Arther" <gr...@g-factor.com> writes:
>I've seen it all in Anaheim, you probably have too, no problem they're still
>my team, but I have never seen a more roll over and die, effortless bunch of
>whining losers than the 1998 Angels. The Angels should be running away with
>their division instead they're barely playing .500 baseball. It's a sad
>situation. What the hell is going on with them! They have absolutley no
>desire to win. When you're six games back, look on the scoreboard and see
are injured. How long do you think it will be before Edmonds
goes down too? We'll have some kind of outfield _then_, won't we?
>desire to win. When you're six games back, look on the scoreboard and see
>the team in front of you getting pounded 8-0 you'd think that would be
>motivation to win. Not so in Anaheim. Tonight I watched Anderson hit a
>grand slam in the first, (unbelievable as it sseemed, he being the king of
>non effort) and then watched the entire team just melt for the worst,
>absolute worst team in the American league, second only to the Marlins all
>of baseball. I am so in shock that our team gets beaten by a retread like
>Belcher and lays down while blowing yet Another 4+ run lead. Not only
Two or three, in fact.
>that, but sitting behind the dugout tonight, I had to dodge trinket vendors,
>bears, and a whole host of shannanigans (sp) again for 9 innings. Having
>been a non bandwagoner for the whole ' Disney is ruining baseball' catcall
>I can't help but really wonder if the product they're selling is fireworks
>and kids running the bases or contending baseball? Excuse time is over
We can't confuse Disney with the players. Remember when Bavasi
said getting Jack McDowell meant the Angels would be in the playoffs?
>for these guys. All I can do is give away season tickets, if I can
>convince people to take them, until there is some change on that field.
>1. Fire the trainer and team doctor. These guys obviously can't train the
>players and can't properly diagnose and treat an injury. What ML team has 7
>guys on the DL continuously?
play through pain" mind-set. Watson didn't bother to tell anyone
that his arm was falling off until he had blown a game trying
to pitch through it. Thanks, Allen, here's your medal, enjoy it
while you're on the DL. We can't lay it all on the trainers if
no one will speak up when something is wrong. If Salmon hadn't
said anything, he would still be out there in right field. I
appreciate what they are trying to do, but how does it help the
team when a guy tries to play with an injury and then has to go
on the DL? Who exactly is putting that kind of pressure on?
>2. Trade Bait (for any pitcher with an ERA under 4.00) These guys are
>expendable.
>
>Anderson...overrated... laziest guy on the team.
>Garcia...who?
>Martin...who?
>Nevin...times up, remember a guy named Greg Brock?
>Watson...who paid this chump 3 mil?
>Dickson...times up
>Delucia....never was.
forced into a starter's role for which he is obviously unsuited.
Not his fault.
>3. Sit the lazy, effortless, millionaire chumps who don't run out ground
>balls and take check swings three times for a strikeout or better yet trade
>them.
>BTW Can anyone stand listening to that goofball on TV call the game and
>make up stupid I'm okay you're okay anecdotes about the failure of the team
>to win? If it weren't for the medicated ramblings of Sparky, the TV
>broadcasts would be unwatchable.
the guys on your list.
>This whole season is a bust so far. New stadium...tired of hearing about
>it, big deal. Lets see some winning, there is plenty of time if they start
>making some personnel moves now.
>
>Am I nuts or does anyone agree, please tell.
really hurt by having Velarde and Greene out, Salmon injured,
three or four (five? six?) pitchers hurting.... Unfortunately,
a lot of these injuries don't seem like the type where you can
say, "When we get these guys healthy, we can win." Velarde's
career may be over, Greene isn't sounding so hot, Salmon's foot
is apparently not going to get better on its own, and how can
we get along with every starter except Finley pitching in pain?
Not a pretty picture, but with no easy solutions.
SSmith1701
From: "Greg Arther" <gr...@g-factor.com>
<<I've seen it all in Anaheim, you probably have too, no problem they're still
my team, but I have never seen a more roll over and die, effortless bunch of
whining losers than the 1998 Angels>>
Who's "whining"? Name one player on this team who's been whining.
They're overwhelmed by injuries.
<<1. Fire the trainer and team doctor. These guys obviously can't train the
players and can't properly diagnose and treat an injury. What ML team has 7
guys on the DL continuously?>>
Oh, shoot the messenger. That'll solve the problem. How do you know they
"can't train the players and can't properly diagnose and treat an injury"? Are
you a doctor? A physical therapist? A professional trainer?
<<2. Trade Bait (for any pitcher with an ERA under 4.00) These guys are
expendable.
Anderson...overrated... laziest guy on the team.>>
Anderson is "lazy"? How do you know this, Mr. Expert? How much time do
you spend in the clubhouse and on the field watching the guy work out? Garret
hasn't played up to expectations, no doubt. But "lazy"? No way. Sparky used
a word that I think best describes Garret's problem -- "undisciplined." He
swings at anything within three feet of the strike zone. But that's definitely
not laziness.
<<"Rush" those minor league guys up here, by all means. This waiting until a
guy is 26 or so is bull, what do they think they'll have to face "major
league pitching"? Don't think so in this league.>>
Oh yeah, take the baby, drop him in the deep end of the pool and force him
to learn how to swim. Or drown in the process. Great way to treat a
million-dollar investment. A player is ready when he's ready. The people
running the farm system have been in the business for decades and know what
they're doing.
<<3. Sit the lazy, effortless, millionaire chumps who don't run out ground
balls and take check swings three times for a strikeout or better yet trade
them.>>
Again, name one. Every one of them is playing as hard as they can --
unless you can cite any hard evidence to the contrary. Or perhaps you haven't
noticed that Tim Salmon is playing with a badly injured foot. Or how about Jim
Edmonds playing with two bad knees last year. Or Jack McDowell gutsing out
five innings last week with a bad elbow. Or Allen Watson pitching through
tendinitis, trying desperately to contribute when his arm is injured. Or Mike
James trying to pitch with a torn muscle in his arm.
<<Am I nuts or does anyone agree, please tell.>>
Since you asked ... Instead of being a fair weather fan who rolls over
when the team suffers a rash of injuries, how's about showing a little support
and patience when they need it? These aren't the Dodgers, who break off into
little cliques and never reach their potential. The Angels are a team who, if
anything, are suffering because they're trying too hard. We've got four months
left in the season, and there's plenty of time left to get everyone healthy.
Show a little faith.
Stephen
SSmith1701
From: SKI333 <SKI...@prodigy.net>
<<Does anyone know why Washburn keeps getting called up and sent back
without throwing a pitch when we got guys like Watson and Dickson who
couldn't hit a bull in the ass with a beachball at five feet?>>
A gross exaggeration (about Washburn). He was technically activated for
one day as a contingency in case one of the other starters wasn't ready to go.
He doesn't "keep getting called up". Washburn has little experience above AA
ball. I'd like to see him get at least another 1-2 months at Vancouver before
giving him a shot, although circumstances may not allow it due to injuries.
I wouldn't mind seeing Dickson go back to AAA for about a month. He had a
great first half in 1997, but slumped the end of the year and obviously hasn't
contributed much in 1998. If he's not going to pitch in a regular rotation
here, I'd rather see him do it in Vancouver.
Maybe Watson's problem has been his arm injury. Let's get him healthy and
see what happens.
Stephen
Matthew Shugart
In article <199805261529...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
ssmit...@aol.com (SSmith1701) wrote:
> Since you asked ... Instead of being a fair weather fan who rolls over
> when the team suffers a rash of injuries, how's about showing a little support
> and patience when they need it? These aren't the Dodgers, who break off into
> little cliques and never reach their potential. The Angels are a team who, if
> anything, are suffering because they're trying too hard. We've got four
months
> left in the season, and there's plenty of time left to get everyone healthy.
> Show a little faith.
> Stephen
The Dodgers have reached their potential. THey are a .500 team, as one
might expect of a team with no real closer, no good leadoff hitter, no
good no. 2 hitter, etc., etc.
As for the Angels, they are a team with a lot of holes. The club came
into the season with a squad that might have been pretty good if
evyerthing had gone well. That is, if Greene and Velarde had come back
with no problems, if Watson had developed, if Anderson became the next
Tony Gwynn, etc., etc.
I have not given up. But it is hard to be optimistic. Most of the things
they needed to go well have, in fact, gone wrong. No real surpise there,
IMO. I didn't expect much and I'm nmot seeing much. I still enjoy
watching this team play. Contrary to the post that claimed the team was
lazy, I see a team that is giving all it's got. And that just isn't
enough, unless things change in the remaining 2/3 (approx.) of the season.
__________________________________________________________
"Baseball is like this. Have one good year and you can fool them for five more, because for five more years they expect you to have another good one."
--Frankie Frisch
--
Matthew Shugart
Carlsbad, California
Note: For e-mail, please remove the "Spamfighter"
Greg Arther
Since you asked ... Instead of being a fair weather fan who rolls over
when the team suffers a rash of injuries, how's about showing a little
support
and patience when they need it? These aren't the Dodgers, who break off
into
little cliques and never reach their potential. The Angels are a team who,
if
anything, are suffering because they're trying too hard. We've got four
months
left in the season, and there's plenty of time left to get everyone healthy.
Show a little faith.
Stephen
Well the only thing deserving of a rebuttal is the the trainer comment.
Perfect example: DAMION EASLEY, we never hear about ol' shin splints hurting
in Detroit. Maybe because they have a training program that works? Don't
need to be a doctor to deduce that one.
greg
krist...@delphi.com
SSmith1701 <ssmit...@aol.com> writes:
>From: "Greg Arther" <gr...@g-factor.com>
>
><<I've seen it all in Anaheim, you probably have too, no problem they're still
>my team, but I have never seen a more roll over and die, effortless bunch of
>whining losers than the 1998 Angels>>
>
> Who's "whining"? Name one player on this team who's been whining.
>They're overwhelmed by injuries.
been too much "acknowledgment of injuries." I don't call that
whining either. Maybe the paper got it wrong? It happens.
krist...@delphi.com
"Greg Arther" <gr...@g-factor.com> writes:
>Well the only thing deserving of a rebuttal is the the trainer comment.
>Perfect example: DAMION EASLEY, we never hear about ol' shin splints hurting
>in Detroit. Maybe because they have a training program that works? Don't
>need to be a doctor to deduce that one.
now because he has undergone hypnosis. Hey, whatever. Maybe
the Angels need a hypnotist. "Your arm feels great, BlackJack...."
Ozzy
Y'know it always amazes me to the see the capacity of some people for
exaggerated pessimism.
I've been reading through this "the sky is falling" thread and I can
only shake my head in disbelief.
Yes, the setbacks to Velarde and Greene are certainly disappointing
but certainly are by no means devastating to the Angels contention
hopes this season. Scrap the team and play for next year less than two
months into the season? Do you really think six games is an
insurmountable deficit in the standings?
Come on people...get serious!
IMO, the only thing the Angels should really feel the urgency to
address is finding another reliable starter, whether that means giving
Jarrod Washburn a shot as insurance for Watson's ineffectiveness
and/or injury, or by finally going out and pulling the trigger in
dealing one of the outfielders (read: GA) for a forth or fifth
starter.
However I do agree with the suggestion that someone in the Angel
relief corps needs to give way to make room for Anthony Chavez. If
that means moving Rich DeLucia or Pep Harris, both of whom I've
vocally supported in the past...sorry guys, you just haven't gotten
the job done. Chavez meanwhile is having another solid campaign in
Vancouver and I just don't see what he has left to prove in the
minors.
Everything else will take care of itself. The Angels are a resilient
team; they proved that last year. There is still an awful lot of
season left, and don't forget that they still haven't played the
Rangers head-to-head, and how they dominated them last season. I am
convinced that as long as Seattle is down, in a 2-team race, the
Angels are a better team than Texas, and I won't change that opinion
just because the team stubs its toe in late May.
It's way too early to press the panic button folks. They may be
partying in Arlington, but I believe I'll pass on that cyanide
kool-aide just yet. *g*
Ozzy
SSmith1701
From: Oz...@bite-a-bat.com (Ozzy)
<<Y'know it always amazes me to the see the capacity of some people for
exaggerated pessimism.
I've been reading through this "the sky is falling" thread and I can
only shake my head in disbelief.>>
Amen, brother. Finally, a voice of sanity ...
Stephen
Matthew Shugart
> No,your not crazy,most of what you said is right on. I think Hollins
> should be added to your list also,I hesitate to say that because the guy
> really tries hard,but it just isn't happening for him anymore,sadly.
> My god,as of now Olivares is the most reliable pitcher on the staff,that
> should be telling management its time to deal or bring someone up.
> While every team has one or two great players,the overall quality of
> most teams is at lower level then in the past due to expansion,
If by "past" you mean 1997, that's plausible. If by "past" you mean 1958,
that's ridiculous (though it gets said all the time). The US population
has grown a lot faster than the number of roster spots in the major
leagues. Add to that increased international scouting, and the pool seems
obviously bigger than in the "past" (defined as decades ago). THe overall
quality of major league baseball talent is surely greater in the 1990s
than it has ever been before.
the jump
> from AAA ball to the majors is not as severe as in the past,
What's the evidence for this assertion. Frankly, I think it is ridiculous.
so there is
> no reason to keep a player down if he shows promise,regardless of age.
> Does anyone know why Washburn keeps getting called up and sent back
> without throwing a pitch when we got guys like Watson and Dickson who
> couldn't hit a bull in the ass with a beachball at five feet?
Because Washburn is not that much of a prospect, and is being kept close
at hand only for an emergency?
Matthew Shugart
The Times also reported that Collins thought maybe there was too LITTLE
acknowledgment of injury. As in players not wanting to let on how much
they are hurting and playing through it, and then possibly inmjuring
themselves more seriously. Salmon, McDowell, Velarde, and Greene were all
mentioned as cases in point.
SKI333
>
> If by "past" you mean 1997, that's plausible. If by "past" you mean 1958,
> that's ridiculous (though it gets said all the time). The US population
> has grown a lot faster than the number of roster spots in the major
> leagues. Add to that increased international scouting, and the pool seems
> obviously bigger than in the "past" (defined as decades ago). THe overall
> quality of major league baseball talent is surely greater in the 1990s
> than it has ever been before.
> Yea right,thats why scouts have to go to Japan to find pitchers and sneak players out of Cuba,because were so overloaded with talent.
> the jump
> > from AAA ball to the majors is not as severe as in the past,
>
> What's the evidence for this assertion. Frankly, I think it is ridiculous.
>
If it is ridiculous,tell me why a Guy like Baughman can come up from
AA ball
and play better than the so called major leaguers he replaced at that
position?
> so there is
> > no reason to keep a player down if he shows promise,regardless of age.
> > Does anyone know why Washburn keeps getting called up and sent back
> > without throwing a pitch when we got guys like Watson and Dickson who
> > couldn't hit a bull in the ass with a beachball at five feet?
>
> Because Washburn is not that much of a prospect, and is being kept close
> at hand only for an emergency?
> If he isn't much of a prospect,than why don't they just trade or release him?
Jim Bennie
In <199805261534...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, ssmit...@aol.com
(SSmith1701) wrote:
> From: SKI333 <SKI...@prodigy.net>
> He doesn't "keep getting called up". Washburn has little experience above AA
> ball. I'd like to see him get at least another 1-2 months at Vancouver
before
> giving him a shot, although circumstances may not allow it due to injuries.
Well, he's not. He's been sent back to Midland where, perhaps,
batters may not tee off on his fastball like they were in Vancouver.
Jim
AP baseball stringer, Vancouver
SSmith1701
From: jgbe...@vcn.bc.ca (Jim Bennie)
<<Well, he's not. He's been sent back to Midland where, perhaps,
batters may not tee off on his fastball like they were in Vancouver.>>
Washburn was sent to Midland to make a start because, apparently, he
missed a turn in the rotation at Vancouver because of rainouts. After that, my
sources tell me, he gets called up to Anaheim.
Stephen
Randy Scott
It's now offical. Washburn will start for the halos on tuesday night in
Kansas City. So lets all give him a warm welcome over the TV.
Randy
The Official Edison Field Usher of The Angels Newsgroup
If for some reason you want to e-mail me, remove Spamsux from my
address.
Matthew Shugart
> Matthew Shugart wrote:
> >
> > In article <356A55...@prodigy.net>, SKI...@prodigy.net wrote:
>
> >
> > If by "past" you mean 1997, that's plausible. If by "past" you mean 1958,
> > that's ridiculous (though it gets said all the time). The US population
> > has grown a lot faster than the number of roster spots in the major
> > leagues. Add to that increased international scouting, and the pool seems
> > obviously bigger than in the "past" (defined as decades ago). THe overall
> > quality of major league baseball talent is surely greater in the 1990s
> > than it has ever been before.
> > Yea right,thats why scouts have to go to Japan to find pitchers and
sneak players out of Cuba,because were so overloaded with talent.
> > the jump
> > > from AAA ball to the majors is not as severe as in the past,
> >
> > What's the evidence for this assertion. Frankly, I think it is ridiculous.
> >
> If it is ridiculous,tell me why a Guy like Baughman can come up from
> AA ball
> and play better than the so called major leaguers he replaced at that
> position?
Sample size. If he's doing well after 100 Abs, or if you can cite
systematic evidence, I might be willing to listen. But 40 ABs by one
player is evidence of nothing.
More to the point, .275/.292/.275 (the last one, is his slugging--before
Sunday's triple) is hardly anything to crow about. I'd say that is more
evidence for how tough the jump is than for how the gap between AAA and
majors has narrowed. If it looks better than the guys he replaced, that
says more about the Angels situation than about Baughman or about the
distance in talent level between AAA and major leagues.
Sorry, but a player playing below replacement level for a major league
second baseman after 40 Abs does not convince me that the jump from AAA to
major league has become less severe than in the past.
> > so there is
> > > no reason to keep a player down if he shows promise,regardless of age.
> > > Does anyone know why Washburn keeps getting called up and sent back
> > > without throwing a pitch when we got guys like Watson and Dickson who
> > > couldn't hit a bull in the ass with a beachball at five feet?
> >
> > Because Washburn is not that much of a prospect, and is being kept close
> > at hand only for an emergency?
> > If he isn't much of a prospect,than why don't they just trade or
release him?
Because everyone needs an emergency starter now and then. And he's it,
for lack of better options. But the context that this came up in was a
suggestion that maybe Washburn could be better than some existing Angels
starters. I was merely suggesting that maybe the Angels don't think that
highly of him.