Another Light-hitting "Has-been" coming
krongone
Seattle for Bill Hall (yuch!).
Are they under any pressure from MLB to increase their ethnic
diversity on the roster or something?
This team is looking like a joke.
Gary
Hall is just going to be a backup who can play every position but
catcher.
The Venerable Sarge
Geez - and they could of had Donnie Sadler for the same price.
whatitis
And can you believe he is making 8.4 mill next year!
S/B 954RR
"krongone" <kron...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0da40f43-d7b9-4d61...@t12g2000vbk.googlegroups.com...
Excellent! He is a utility player, nothing more and if he catches lightning
in a bottle again we'll have one of the more versatile and valuable backups
in the game. Who did you want as a utility player?
Mortimer
Reports now indicate it might not be Bill Hall, but instead just a
minor-leaguer (or possibly a 4th or 5th outfielder such as Langerhans)
"Some news all starting to break here at once, but I'm told by a
baseball source that the Mariners are indeed set to acquire first
baseman Casey Kotchman from the Boston Red Sox in return for at least
one minor leaguer and possibly another player. I'm hearing that the
other player would be a major leaguer capable of being a 4th or 5th
outfielder. There are two guys who jump to mind right away: Ryan
Langerhans and Bill Hall."
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/marinersblog/2010707348_mariners_to_acquire_casey_kotc.html
Wayback1918
We've talked a lot about how good the Red Sox defense should be but
the Mariners are probably putting an even better team in the field.
RF Suzuki
CF Gutierrez
SS Wilson
3B Figgins
1B Kotchman
The top 4 are the best in the league.....Kotchman's very good too.
Dano
OK. That's part of the equation. Now let's see how the pitching and
hitting stack up. I'll say this...not that I watch them that closely...but
it seems to me they have improved themselves quite a bit this off season.
Tristan daCunha
He's good to go and has a wicked right arm!
His presence would round out Theo's present cast of Hogan's Heroes.
Text Theo......Paul is waiting for a tryout!
Ray Garraty
> Dano <janeandd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > OK. That's part of the equation. Now let's see how the pitching and
>
They could win a lot of 3 game series with those two starters, and
should have great defense, but not much offense in the way of power.
I guess Milton Bradley will hit cleanup.
They are the anti-Rangers.
Steve Stein
> On Jan 5, 4:04 pm, krongone <kron51...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Ken Rosenthal is reporting that the Sox traded Casey Kotchman to
> > Seattle for Bill Hall (yuch!).
>
The Mariners are reportedly on the hook for all but $750K of that.
Wayback1918
>
> - Show quoted text -
Oh they won't hit at all....
On the days when Lee and Hernandez are pitching they'll be tough but
even .500 overall should be stretch for them.
Mortimer
> The Mariners are reportedly on the hook for all but $750K of that.
And the Brewers are on the hook for a portion of Hall's salary too for
this upcoming season.
Gary
I read today that last season both the Rangers and Mariners improved
their defense last season, scored less runs than the year before and
improved their record. Go figure.
Dano
"Mortimer" <ectha...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:c1182dc5-810e-4a7e...@p19g2000vbq.googlegroups.com...
----------------------------------
Yeah...like 7 mil.
Pearly Soames
>
>
> I read today that last season both the Rangers and Mariners improved
> their defense last season, scored less runs than the year before and
> improved their record. Go figure.
Tampa did it the year before with defense as well.
Ron Johnson
> On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 16:04:49 -0800 (PST), krongone
>
> >Ken Rosenthal is reporting that the Sox traded Casey Kotchman to
> >Seattle for Bill Hall (yuch!).
>
> >Are they under any pressure from MLB to increase their ethnic
> >diversity on the roster or something?
>
> >This team is looking like a joke.
>
> Hall is just going to be a backup who can play every position but
> catcher.
And if he bounces back -- well he's been moderately useful
against LHP in the past. Though who he'd hit for is an
interesting question.
Dano
I think his value is on the defensive side of things. He's reputed to be
very versatile and capable of good defense, especially at either SS or CF if
needed. That's huge. Apparently they expect the deal to be structured to
give the Sox lux cap relief as well...though those numbers aren't hashed out
yet. If they don't get that financial break, I predict that the deal
doesn't get done.
He would like a chance to play everyday (who doesn't) in order to show his
value...but that would probably only happen should someone get hurt. Of
course if another team has an injury, he could also have some trade value.
Gary
If he shows he can hit vs. LHP, he could play a little in RF.
Gary
wrote:
>Ron Johnson wrote:
>> On Jan 5, 8:58 pm, Gary <golfera...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 16:04:49 -0800 (PST), krongone
>>>
>>> <kron51...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Ken Rosenthal is reporting that the Sox traded Casey Kotchman to
>>>> Seattle for Bill Hall (yuch!).
>>>
>>>> Are they under any pressure from MLB to increase their ethnic
>>>> diversity on the roster or something?
>>>
>>>> This team is looking like a joke.
>>>
>>> Hall is just going to be a backup who can play every position but
>>> catcher.
>>
>> And if he bounces back -- well he's been moderately useful
>> against LHP in the past. Though who he'd hit for is an
>> interesting question.
>
>I think his value is on the defensive side of things. He's reputed to be
>very versatile and capable of good defense, especially at either SS or CF if
>needed. That's huge. Apparently they expect the deal to be structured to
>give the Sox lux cap relief as well...though those numbers aren't hashed out
>yet. If they don't get that financial break, I predict that the deal
>doesn't get done.
With the option they game Beltre, they get some relief, plus Seatle is
giving money to the Sox, plus paying most of Hall's salary (via the
Brewers).
Dano
Well that's what folks are supposing. I have yet to see confirmation of any
hard and fast numbers is all I'm saying. All we know for sure is that the
Brewers pay Seattle and it's up to the negotiation between Seattle and
Boston what portion they will share of that. I'll be happy to read any
links you care to share that you may have found.
Gary
Dano
"Gary" <golfe...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:a22dk5hd95ohj15hb...@4ax.com...
Thanks. I hadn't seen that. Speier is pretty reliable. Pretty creative by
Theo too.
Ray Garraty
>
> - Show quoted text -
He should a chance to play plenty because of his versatility, Francona
always gives his bench players starts. Drew is good for 40 games off,
and there will be other (hopefully no major) chances to fill in for
injuries here and there.
McDuck
Yes, pitching mostly.
Gary
BUt I also read that their defense improved as well as their pitching.
With Lackey, a healthy DiceK and (hopefully) an even better Buchholz,
I think the Sox' pitching is also better to go along with better
defense.
Gnork
He could be a decent reserve. Since the Brewers and the Mariners are
paying almost all of his salary, if he hits .200 again he could be
released easily. BTW Kron the Unmagnificent , what makes you think
Hall can play first base?
Steve Stein
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100107&content_id=7888608&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb
"The Brewers designated him for assignment on Aug. 12, 2009. After his
breakout season in 2006, Hall signed a four-year, $24 million deal
that included a $9.25 million option for '11. The Brewers are paying
most of Hall's '10 salary, and the Mariners sent the remaining balance
to the Red Sox as part of the trade. "
Dano
Yup. Good smart deal. I think the guy should be useful. Don't know how
happy he'll be. But he is being well compensated and he can try to prove he
deserves better (more playing time) when he gets the chance. Unless someone
gets hurt, he won't likely be playing much.
It would be nice to be able to keep Lowell around. But he simply doesn't
have the versatility they need from a backup...and he wouldn't be happy
anyway. He deserves better and has earned an opportunity elsewhere if he
wishes to play everyday. I hope he gets moved somewhere he will get to
start. I only wish him the best.
Steve Stein
> It would be nice to be able to keep Lowell around. But he simply doesn't
> have the versatility they need from a backup...and he wouldn't be happy
> anyway. He deserves better and has earned an opportunity elsewhere if he
> wishes to play everyday. I hope he gets moved somewhere he will get to
> start. I only wish him the best.
It certainly would be nice to have him around. I don't see the sense
of paying someone to take him. Of course every ballplayer wants to
start, but if he can accept a backup role he would be very useful.
As it stands, Lowell would be my starting DH vs lefties, PH, and
backup 3B.
Dano
Then you make Papi miserable too. Youk is your back-up at third, while
Martinez is his. Mostly the three guys involved are going to play a lot at
their own position. And who is Lowell going to hit for? It would be nice
to keep him as Papi insurance, but I just don't think that's fair.
I agree with the desire to keep him around. In a more perfect world I
would. I don't think you can ignore the feelings of the player however.
Nor should we. This guy was a valuable contributor. He was a WS MVP and
helped them win a championship. You shouldn't want to treat him like an old
pair of shoes. He will very much be playing for his next contract. Pretty
hard to show one's value by sitting. I see nothing wrong about him wishing
to go someplace where he can play. That's why Beltre signed HIS deal...to
re-establish his own worth. Lowell needs to do the same to get one more
good payday. I don't think he's through by any means. There are a lot of
clubs who could use him and he will help a lot. It's unfortunate, but
people don't want to gamble 12 million that he'll still be worth it. So
they probably bite the bullet and subsidize a portion to move him along. I
will guess it won't be until spring training when he can get some playing in
and show he's healthy. We'll see what happens. Guys do get hurt too.
Has everyone forgotten a kid named Lowrie BTW? Maybe he goes to
Pawtucket...but I wouldn't count him out if he ever stays healthy.
Dano
I already responded to you on this, but just read this piece that quotes
Theo explaining this pretty similarly.
Epstein said the Red Sox have remained in contact with Lowell and his agent
throughout the winter, and the two sides have been open with each other.
"I think his goal and our goal is for him to come to spring training and get
back on the field and demonstrate his health and start playing and playing
well," Epstein said, before adding that his opportunity to contribute to the
Red Sox next year could either be on the field or via trade.
"I think this is a situation that will take care of itself, because if Mike
gets out on the field and shows that he's 100 percent healthy -- as we
expect him to be a couple weeks into spring training -- and starts playing
well, there will be an opportunity for him," the GM said. "[That will be]
either here, if other players don't show up in good health, or elsewhere.
He's going to be a sought-after player and we'll probably be able to put
Mike in a situation either here or elsewhere where he can really make an
impact on the team."
If Lowell experiences any setbacks in recovering from his surgically
repaired thumb, there is a contingency plan for that, as well.
"If he's a little bit slower rehabbing or hasn't quite gotten back to a
position where he can play regularly, then I think Mike feels if he's going
to have a complementary type role, he'd rather have it here," Epstein said.
"It'll be better in Boston than anywhere else, [with] the way he feels about
the Red Sox and the way we feel about him."
Steve Stein
> Steve Stein wrote:
> > On Jan 8, 11:27 am, "Dano" <janeandd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> It would be nice to be able to keep Lowell around. But he simply
> >> doesn't have the versatility they need from a backup...and he
> >> wouldn't be happy anyway. He deserves better and has earned an
> >> opportunity elsewhere if he wishes to play everyday. I hope he gets
> >> moved somewhere he will get to start. I only wish him the best.
>
> > It certainly would be nice to have him around. I don't see the sense
> > of paying someone to take him. Of course every ballplayer wants to
> > start, but if he can accept a backup role he would be very useful.
>
> > As it stands, Lowell would be my starting DH vs lefties, PH, and
> > backup 3B.
>
> Then you make Papi miserable too. Youk is your back-up at third, while
> Martinez is his. Mostly the three guys involved are going to play a lot at
> their own position.
I'm not sure that Papi would be all that miserable sitting against
lefties.
What you're saying adds up to Varitek being Beltre's backup. I'd
rather have Lowell, at least as far as the lineup goes.
But I agree that Lowell just adds one more guy to a crowded
situation. It chaps me to have to PAY someone to take him, though.
But in terms of doing right by the guy, it would be better to do that
than keep him around on the bench.
Lowrie can be a backup in the middle infield. IF he's healthy.
Steve Stein
> (Quoting Theo:) He's going to be a sought-after player
Well, that's the question, isn't it?
Dano
I think he should be if they stick to paying all but 3M of that contract.
Can't speak to the stupidity of some GMs around baseball of course. But for
anyone needing a righthanded DH at the very least...you couldn't do much
better for around 3 mil. Then there are also guys teams would like to
unload as well.
Gary
wrote:
>Then you make Papi miserable too. Youk is your back-up at third, while
>Martinez is his. Mostly the three guys involved are going to play a lot at
>their own position. And who is Lowell going to hit for? It would be nice
>to keep him as Papi insurance, but I just don't think that's fair.
>
>I agree with the desire to keep him around. In a more perfect world I
>would. I don't think you can ignore the feelings of the player however.
>Nor should we. This guy was a valuable contributor. He was a WS MVP and
>helped them win a championship. You shouldn't want to treat him like an old
>pair of shoes. He will very much be playing for his next contract. Pretty
>hard to show one's value by sitting. I see nothing wrong about him wishing
>to go someplace where he can play. That's why Beltre signed HIS deal...to
>re-establish his own worth. Lowell needs to do the same to get one more
>good payday. I don't think he's through by any means. There are a lot of
>clubs who could use him and he will help a lot. It's unfortunate, but
>people don't want to gamble 12 million that he'll still be worth it. So
>they probably bite the bullet and subsidize a portion to move him along. I
>will guess it won't be until spring training when he can get some playing in
>and show he's healthy. We'll see what happens. Guys do get hurt too.
>
>Has everyone forgotten a kid named Lowrie BTW? Maybe he goes to
>Pawtucket...but I wouldn't count him out if he ever stays healthy.
>
From what Theo said today, to me it sounds like Theo has told Lowell
that if Lowell feels he can play regularly that they would trade him.
But if Lowell feels he can only be a backup, Lowell would prefer to
stay here.
It may be that Theo hasn't promised Lowell anything, but it sounded
like that Lowell thinks he can play everyday, they would move him.
Gary
wrote:
>I already responded to you on this, but just read this piece that quotes
>Theo explaining this pretty similarly.
>
>http://www.nesn.com/2010/01/theo-epstein-address-mike-lowell-situation-says-they-are-on-the-same-page-1.html
>
>Epstein said the Red Sox have remained in contact with Lowell and his agent
>throughout the winter, and the two sides have been open with each other.
>
>"I think his goal and our goal is for him to come to spring training and get
>back on the field and demonstrate his health and start playing and playing
>well," Epstein said, before adding that his opportunity to contribute to the
>Red Sox next year could either be on the field or via trade.
>
>"I think this is a situation that will take care of itself, because if Mike
>gets out on the field and shows that he's 100 percent healthy -- as we
>expect him to be a couple weeks into spring training -- and starts playing
>well, there will be an opportunity for him," the GM said. "[That will be]
>either here, if other players don't show up in good health, or elsewhere.
>He's going to be a sought-after player and we'll probably be able to put
>Mike in a situation either here or elsewhere where he can really make an
>impact on the team."
>
>If Lowell experiences any setbacks in recovering from his surgically
>repaired thumb, there is a contingency plan for that, as well.
>
>"If he's a little bit slower rehabbing or hasn't quite gotten back to a
>position where he can play regularly, then I think Mike feels if he's going
>to have a complementary type role, he'd rather have it here," Epstein said.
>"It'll be better in Boston than anywhere else, [with] the way he feels about
>the Red Sox and the way we feel about him."
>
Oops. My last reply was sent prior to seeing this.
Dano
While that's probably part of it, don't make light of the interest of other
teams. If no one is tempted enough to make a fair offer, I doubt they'd be
giving him a fulltime role...in which case he would surely prefer to play
here if that's the way it will be. I'm glad to hear there is good
communication between the team and Mike. Sounds like some good mutual
respect to me. Lowell sounds like he is taking this as well as can be
expected. It's only fair that they would accomodate any request to be
traded should he ask.
McDuck
wrote:
Yes, TB has some improved defense, at SS for example. But its BP had
been terrible and became great, they added Jackson to the rotation,
etc. Mostly pitching.
Dano
"McDuck" <wallyDELE...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ui4fk519jliod1b93...@4ax.com...
Just curious (not enough to look it up though)...are there many good
pitching teams with poor defense?
McDuck
wrote:
>
RS last year. NYY in the early 2000s.
Dano
Okay...got me. I should have said bad teams with good pitching and poor
defense.
Wayback1918
> "McDuck" <wallyDELETEMEMcD...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> news:c3pik5dv7q0li3frj...@4ax.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Fri, 8 Jan 2010 23:42:15 -0500, "Dano" <janeandd...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > >"McDuck" <wallyDELETEMEMcD...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > >news:ui4fk519jliod1b93...@4ax.com...
> > >> On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 23:21:07 -0500, Gary <golfera...@comcast.net>
> > >> wrote:
>
> > >> Yes, TB has some improved defense, at SS for example. But its BP had
> > >> been terrible and became great, they added Jackson to the rotation,
> > >> etc. Mostly pitching.
>
> > >Just curious (not enough to look it up though)...are there many good
> > >pitching teams with poor defense?
>
> > RS last year. NYY in the early 2000s.
>
> Okay...got me. I should have said bad teams with good pitching and poor
>
> - Show quoted text -
Oakland and Chicago White Sox are the best examples last year.