O's set 40 man roster
MR. PHP
Orioles set 40-man roster
By Gary Washburn / MLB.com
BALTIMORE -- The Orioles set their 40-man roster late Wednesday by
adding two prospects who made strides in the farm system last season.
Outfielder Darnell McDonald and right-handed pitcher Daniel Cabrera
increased the Orioles' 40-man roster to 39 on the final day Major
League teams could set their rosters.
The club also reinstated David Segui and Albert Belle from the 60-day
disabled list and now has its list of protected players entering the
Rule 5 Draft.
McDonald is considered one of the organization's late bloomers. He was
a first-round pick in 1997 and finally flourished this season for
Triple-A Rochester after several stops in the Orioles' system.
McDonald hit .291 for the Red Wings with six homers and 21 doubles,
and .297 with 21 runs for Double-A Bowie.
Before 2002, McDonald had endured four inconsistent years in the
system before finally advancing to Rochester in 2001. He hit .238 for
the Red Wings before being sent back to Bowie to begin the 2002
season.
Cabrera, 21, is a 6-foot-7 right-hander from the Dominican Republic.
He went 5-2 with a 3.28 ERA with 69 strikeouts in 60 1/3 innings for
Rookie League Bluefield. He is considered one of the organization's
top pitching prospects.
Segui played in just 26 games last season before sustaining tendon
damage in his left wrist. He is healthy and expected to play first
base and designated hitter next season. Belle, whose last season as an
active player was 2000, remains on the 40-man roster because of an
injury settlement that requires he be on the roster until the
conclusion of his contract in 2003.
Belle retired because of a degenerative hip condition.
The rosters had to be set in preparation for the Rule 5 Draft to be
held Dec. 12 at the Baseball Winter Meetings in Nashville, Tenn.
Orioles right fielder Jay Gibbons is a former Rule 5 pick from the
Toronto Blue Jays.
The 40-man roster consists of 19 pitchers, including prospects Steve
Bechler, Matt Riley, Erik Bedard, Eric DuBose, Mike Paradis and Sean
Douglass.
The club also protected prospects Jose Leon, Eddie Rogers, Brian
Roberts, Larry Bigbie, Tim Raines Jr. and Luis Matos
david craven
"MR. PHP" <mr...@planet.gong.rgi> wrote in message
Uh... please DON'T reprint in their entirety materials subject to copyright.
Now a substantive comment. Who DIDN'T the Orioles protect because they were
unwilling to try to negotiate an "out" with the insurance carrier on Belle?
(Yes, I know, they had to keep Belle on the 40 man roster for three years
because of "insurance".... Insurance Companies are businessmen too. No
doubt they would have been willing to work out some kind of "lump
settlement" in order to allow the O's to NOT have to carry Belle on the 40
man roster. (Perhaps, for example, only having to pay out 90% of what they
otherwise would have to pay...) That's a win win for both the Insurance
Company AND the O's.... The Insurance Company ends up paying out less...
and the O's don't have to tie up a roster slot... (And aren't you also
limited in the number of people on the DL??)
David Marc Nieporent
"david craven" <dcr...@nul.net> wrote:
>Now a substantive comment. Who DIDN'T the Orioles protect because they were
>unwilling to try to negotiate an "out" with the insurance carrier on Belle?
>(Yes, I know, they had to keep Belle on the 40 man roster for three years
>because of "insurance".... Insurance Companies are businessmen too. No
>doubt they would have been willing to work out some kind of "lump
>settlement" in order to allow the O's to NOT have to carry Belle on the 40
>man roster. (Perhaps, for example, only having to pay out 90% of what they
>otherwise would have to pay...) That's a win win for both the Insurance
>Company AND the O's.... The Insurance Company ends up paying out less...
>and the O's don't have to tie up a roster slot...
What difference does it make? As I said this summer, the Orioles don't
have 20 guys worth protecting, let alone 40. Look at who they added this
offseason: Daniel Cabrera. A Rookie Ball pitcher. They've got nothing.
> (And aren't you also
>limited in the number of people on the DL??)
No. Not on the 60-day DL.
---------------------------------------------
David M. Nieporent niep...@alumni.princeton.edu
John Krempasky
Yet another Orioles hitting "prospect" that, if everything breaks his way,
would be an OK 4th outfielder.
Post45
>Darnell McDonald "flourished?"
Maybe this year he'll "thrive".
Post45
The Webbed Crusader
take McDonald in the rule 5 draft.
Oh that's right he hit 6 homers last year. Maybe the O's are holding out
hope he'll be the clean up hitter they covet and don't want him "snapped
up" by another team.
Henry W Hartlove
out of touch. Remember reality?
The Orioles are a rebuilding club and you have to evaluate them as such.
There are first place teams and last place teams. I enjoy seeing lesser
teams slowly progress through the enthusiasm of young players and chemistry.
The rest of you, can go make posts on the Yankees, Giants or Braves boards.
As for players worth protecting, give me a break!. How many pitchers have
past through the Orioles ranks, who seemingly could not get it together,
only to become future stars? If you need names, ... Kevin Brown, Curt
Shilling, want more.
We have a least two pitchers that I'd protect, with that in mind.
Isn't the game about fun? If you were a player on a lesser team, would you
just hang it up?
PS: My comments won't change anyone. You are who you are. But, maybe there
are some positive readers of this post who have something to contribute and
we can drown the others out. By the way, some of you, are the kind of
people that if the Orioles started winning, would be back in a heart beat
pretending that you never left.
"MR. PHP" <mr...@planet.gong.rgi> wrote in message
news:DCC14A47722D2E82.EEBF0488...@lp.airnews.net...
MR. PHP
<hwhar...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>To the lesser people who post here: The negative posts show that you are
>out of touch. Remember reality?
>
>The Orioles are a rebuilding club and you have to evaluate them as such.
>There are first place teams and last place teams. I enjoy seeing lesser
>teams slowly progress through the enthusiasm of young players and chemistry.
>The rest of you, can go make posts on the Yankees, Giants or Braves boards.
>
>As for players worth protecting, give me a break!. How many pitchers have
>past through the Orioles ranks, who seemingly could not get it together,
>only to become future stars? If you need names, ... Kevin Brown, Curt
>Shilling, want more.
>
>We have a least two pitchers that I'd protect, with that in mind.
>
>Isn't the game about fun? If you were a player on a lesser team, would you
>just hang it up?
>
>PS: My comments won't change anyone. You are who you are. But, maybe there
>are some positive readers of this post who have something to contribute and
>we can drown the others out. By the way, some of you, are the kind of
>people that if the Orioles started winning, would be back in a heart beat
>pretending that you never left.
>
>
>
>
>"MR. PHP" <mr...@planet.gong.rgi> wrote in message
>news:DCC14A47722D2E82.EEBF0488...@lp.airnews.net...
Alright! Hold on there...
I pretty much agree with the crux of your post, but you seem to have
used an article by Gary Washburn from MLB to disagree with me.
As you can see by the byline, this was a piece by Gary Washburn, I
just posted it for Os fans to read. I didn't add any comments at all.
This article was from www.mlb.com
As you can see, it was dated 11/20/2002 at 8:48 pm ET.
The headline was: Orioles Set 40-Man Roster
It was written by Gary Washburn of MLB.
Now you may not like what he said, and you may not like me posting
what he said (with all of the due credits BTW), but you should not try
to blame me for comments made by a writer for MLB. All I did was post
the article for peeps to read who may not otherwise have come upon it
during their normal-daily "surfing."
Here are some common indicators:
>> 11/20/2002 8:48 pm ET
That is the date of the report from MLB (or similar for any news
agency) for publication.
>> Orioles set 40-man roster
That is the title or headline of the article
>> By Gary Washburn / MLB.com
That is the byline. This tells you who wrote the article
>>
Below is the "Dateline" and the text of the article.
I have always thought that "Dateline" is a terrible term for this
thing, since it really only gives the location of the source and has
nothing at all to do with "dates," but you will have to take that up
with the journalistas. Then again, maybe I have mixed up the terms the
journalistas use. Anyway, this was the body of the article:
That was all written by Mr. Washburn. OK? You will note that no other
comments were added.
When people add comments of their own, they will be seperated dashes
or lines or some other clearly defined device. I was not being
negative, unless you think it is negative to post articles about the
Os that are less than flattering.
I happen to agree with the Os (apparent?) plan of trying to rebuild
the farm system and limiting the big $$$ free agents. This process
takes YEARS, and I am very well aware of that.
K?
Henry W Hartlove
who replied.
There is a difference in reporting the facts( Gary Washburn) and being
critical if the condition warrants as opposed to those who only want to
harp on the negative.
"MR. PHP" <mr...@planet.gong.rgi> wrote in message
news:66F3E4CC451B5A8E.7E7512D0...@lp.airnews.net...
David H.
"Henry W Hartlove" <hwhar...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:OPJF9.5139$2g5....@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com...
> Sorry, Mr. PHP. My comments were not aimed at you, but instead at all
those
> who replied.
>
> There is a difference in reporting the facts( Gary Washburn) and being
> critical if the condition warrants as opposed to those who only want to
> harp on the negative.
>
The negativity in here started the year Benitez hung the slider during the
wire-to-wire postseason. At least, that's been my experience.
That said, the Orioles SUCK! Their owner SUCKS! Their scouting SUCKS!
Their broadcasting tandems SUCK!
David H.
nob...@junk.min.net
>To the lesser people who post here: The negative posts show that you are
>out of touch. Remember reality?
>The Orioles are a rebuilding club and you have to evaluate them as such.
>There are first place teams and last place teams. I enjoy seeing lesser
>teams slowly progress through the enthusiasm of young players and
>chemistry. The rest of you, can go make posts on the Yankees, Giants or
>Braves boards.
The current regime has no clue how to rebuild a club. Hopefully, the next
one will.
Alan
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
**** Please use address al...@min.net to reply via e-mail. ****
Posted using registered MR/2 ICE Newsreader #564
---------------------------------------------------------------------
nob...@junk.min.net
>The negativity in here started the year Benitez hung the slider during
>the wire-to-wire postseason. At least, that's been my experience.
I only remember you being negative about that. The knowledgeable fans
knew the offense lost that game, and that series.
MR. PHP
>In <K1xF9.5101$l_3....@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>, on 11/28/02
> at 10:47 PM, "Henry W Hartlove" <hwhar...@prodigy.net> said:
>
>>To the lesser people who post here: The negative posts show that you are
>>out of touch. Remember reality?
>
>>The Orioles are a rebuilding club and you have to evaluate them as such.
>>There are first place teams and last place teams. I enjoy seeing lesser
>>teams slowly progress through the enthusiasm of young players and
>>chemistry. The rest of you, can go make posts on the Yankees, Giants or
>>Braves boards.
>
>The current regime has no clue how to rebuild a club. Hopefully, the next
>one will.
>
>
>Alan
We can only hope. Os fans have had their fingers crossed for so long
it is getting hard to type.
MR. PHP
<hwhar...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>Sorry, Mr. PHP. My comments were not aimed at you, but instead at all those
>who replied.
>
>There is a difference in reporting the facts( Gary Washburn) and being
>critical if the condition warrants as opposed to those who only want to
>harp on the negative.
>
>
No prob Mr. H.
There is no end to the Orioles bashing in here.
Alot of the bashing is well deserved. The Orioles have made HUGE
mistakes and there are people who will document them (ad-nauseum) if
you give them even 1/16 of a chance.
The way I see it, the Os are at the bottom and are just starting to
try and find a way to build up the system. It may even get worse.
(I hope not!)
That is why the GM position needs to be filled ASAP and the
player-development system needs a complete rebuild from top to bottom.
Angelos now has a real chance to do the right thing and employ some
qualified people to run the baseball operation and give them the
control they need to build a top-notch operation.
But, he's a blood-sucking lawyer who has made his fortune in back-room
deals and political operations and likes to hire his friends and
family to high-paying posts.
God help us!
GLS
<hwhar...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>To the lesser people who post here: The negative posts show that you are
>out of touch. Remember reality?
Well, yes. Reality hits us every summer. It has for the past several
years. What we need is a new reality.
>The Orioles are a rebuilding club .....
They are? Talk about out of touch with reality.
>I enjoy seeing lesser teams slowly progress through the enthusiasm of
>young players and chemistry.
I also enjoy seeing lesser teams slowly progress. However enthusiasm
and chemistry aren't the only things needed. A little talent would go
a long ways. The Orioles have no (repeat) no discernable position
player talent on the horizon. I know what enthusiasm is, would you
please define "chemistry?"
>As for players worth protecting, give me a break!. How many pitchers have
>past through the Orioles ranks, who seemingly could not get it together,
>only to become future stars? If you need names, ... Kevin Brown, Curt
>Shilling, want more.
Of the above players mentioned (or any other) "stars" which of them
did they not protect? Have the Orioles made some bone headed moves
over the years under previous regimes? Sure have. But "not
protecting" players is totally different than trading them away.
Please give some examples of future stars "not protected" that other
teams scarfed up because the O's didn't protect them.
===================================================================
David Marc Nieporent
"Henry W Hartlove" <hwhar...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>To the lesser people who post here: The negative posts show that you are
>out of touch. Remember reality?
Yes. Do you? "Reality" would be negative, unless you slept through the
last five years.
>The Orioles are a rebuilding club and you have to evaluate them as such.
Yes, indeed. For a rebuilding club, they're old and crappy.
>There are first place teams and last place teams. I enjoy seeing lesser
>teams slowly progress through the enthusiasm of young players and chemistry.
I do, too. How exactly does that apply to the Orioles? Does that include
Mike Bordick? Jeff Conine? David Segui? Marty Cordova? Who are all
these exciting young players?
>The rest of you, can go make posts on the Yankees, Giants or Braves boards.
>As for players worth protecting, give me a break!. How many pitchers have
>past through the Orioles ranks, who seemingly could not get it together,
>only to become future stars? If you need names, ... Kevin Brown, Curt
>Shilling, want more.
Brown did not come from the organization, was an established veteran when
he came to Baltimore, had "gotten it together" before he came to Baltimore,
pitched extremely well in Baltimore, and then left because the Orioles were
more concerned with personality than pitching.
Schilling "seemingly" could get it together, but was traded for a veteran
the Orioles didn't need. That was also more than a decade ago.
>We have a least two pitchers that I'd protect, with that in mind.
Agreed. That leaves about 38 people not worth protecting.
>Isn't the game about fun? If you were a player on a lesser team, would you
>just hang it up?
The game is about lots of things, and no.
>PS: My comments won't change anyone. You are who you are. But, maybe there
>are some positive readers of this post who have something to contribute and
>we can drown the others out. By the way, some of you, are the kind of
>people that if the Orioles started winning, would be back in a heart beat
>pretending that you never left.
Left? I've been here longer than you've "seemingly" been out of
kindergarten, son.
David H.
news:nieporen-4FD179...@news-east.giganews.com...
On the surface....oh hell.....okay.
I agree with you.
Tell me how this organization can fix it.
And don't just say get rid of Thrift.
David H.
nob...@junk.min.net
>I do, too. How exactly does that apply to the Orioles? Does that
>include Mike Bordick? Jeff Conine? David Segui? Marty Cordova? Who
>are all these exciting young players?
Pat Hentgen. He's young. ;(
>Brown did not come from the organization, was an established veteran when
> he came to Baltimore, had "gotten it together" before he came to
>Baltimore, pitched extremely well in Baltimore, and then left because
>the Orioles were more concerned with personality than pitching.
And Brown has really done a lot for the Dodgers, hasn't he?
>Schilling "seemingly" could get it together, but was traded for a veteran
> the Orioles didn't need. That was also more than a decade ago.
He also wasn't kept by the team we traded him to. Young Schilling was a
Sidney Ponson - exciting talent, but didn't make good use of it. He
became a quality pitcher later in his career.
>>We have a least two pitchers that I'd protect, with that in mind.
>Agreed. That leaves about 38 people not worth protecting.
Ponson may be worth protecting, too, unless we get a good player in
return.
nob...@junk.min.net
>On the surface....oh hell.....okay.
>I agree with you.
>Tell me how this organization can fix it.
>And don't just say get rid of Thrift.
That's number one.
Next, get a good scouting staff, so we actually pick some good players.
Third, get the whole organization to stress the importance of OBP and
patience at the plate, as Oakland's does.
Fourth, quit signing old never-weres and has-beens, except perhaps as
bench strength.
David Marc Nieporent
"David H." <dhag...@erols.com> wrote:
>On the surface....oh hell.....okay.
>I agree with you.
>Tell me how this organization can fix it.
>And don't just say get rid of Thrift.
Well, that's a prerequisite, not a solution.
How do you fix it? These aren't the Blue Jays or Red Sox, with some
obvious strengths and some obvious holes. The Orioles have no real
strengths, and huge holes. There is no "fix" per se, other than the long
process of drafting some talent, developing it, and then signing some free
agents as the final piece to the puzzle after the young talent has
developed. Now, I know that's not the answer people want to hear -- but
what do you want me to do about it? You can't become a contender just by
wishing it.
There isn't one big problem the Orioles face; the flaws are teamwide.
Organizationwide, really. There's not a single position player anywhere in
the organization that is a star or looks like he could become a star. You
can't "fix" that. A couple of pitchers maybe -- but there are an awful lot
of pitchers who "could" be good. The only way to find out is to let them
play and see how they do.
David H.
Well, teams like the Oakland A's can lose Giambi and still reach the
playoffs. The Mariners did okay without A-ROD and Randy Johnson.
But, I agree with you.
It's going to be a long haul before the O's are contenders again.
They have no trade bait, and it's been shown that you cannot buy a WS trophy
(Yankees) by signing big names to bigger contracts.
David H.
Ron Johnson
> In article <asbbgp$a73$1...@bob.news.rcn.net>,
> "David H." <dhag...@erols.com> wrote:
>
> >On the surface....oh hell.....okay.
> >I agree with you.
> >Tell me how this organization can fix it.
> >And don't just say get rid of Thrift.
>
> Well, that's a prerequisite, not a solution.
>
> How do you fix it? These aren't the Blue Jays or Red Sox, with some
> obvious strengths and some obvious holes. The Orioles have no real
> strengths, and huge holes. There is no "fix" per se, other than the long
> process of drafting some talent,
Step one would be hiring people who can identify talent. Who's the last good
position player the Orioles have drafted?
> developing it,
Any reason to believe that the organization knows how to develop
position players?
David Marc Nieporent
joh...@ccrs.nrcan.gc.ca (Ron Johnson) wrote:
>David Marc Nieporent <niep...@alumni.princeton.edu> wrote in message
>> >On the surface....oh hell.....okay.
>> >I agree with you.
>> >Tell me how this organization can fix it.
>> >And don't just say get rid of Thrift.
>> Well, that's a prerequisite, not a solution.
>> How do you fix it? These aren't the Blue Jays or Red Sox, with some
>> obvious strengths and some obvious holes. The Orioles have no real
>> strengths, and huge holes. There is no "fix" per se, other than the long
>> process of drafting some talent,
>Step one would be hiring people who can identify talent.
That's why firing/killing Syd was a prerequisite.
>Who's the last good
>position player the Orioles have drafted?
Hmm. I'd say Cal Pickering, but I don't think it would go over big here.
Leo Gomez, Steve Finley, people like that. We're talking a decade ago.
>> developing it,
>Any reason to believe that the organization knows how to develop
>position players?
Well, uh, there's... and also... say, your shoelace is untied!