"King sent to Atlanta for Helms, Foster" (AP)
CoolHandDukeTheBlueDevilMan
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"King sent to Atlanta for Helms, Foster"
NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) - The Milwaukee Brewers acquired third baseman Wes
Helms and left-handed pitcher John Foster from the Atlanta Braves in exchange
for left-handed setup man Ray King on Monday.
Helms, the Braves' minor league player of the year in 2000, batted .243
with six home runs and 22 RBIs in 85 games for the Braves last season. He has
17 homers and 60 RBIs in 198 career major league games, all with Atlanta.
Foster made his major league debut last season. He appeared in five games
in relief for Atlanta, going 1-0 with a 10.80 ERA. Most of his season was spent
at Triple-A Richmond, where he was 8-4 with a 4.21 ERA in 55 games, all in
relief.
King was 3-2 with a 3.05 ERA in 76 relief appearances for Milwaukee. He
struck out 50 batters in 65 innings.
12/16/02 16:19 EST
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
Duke Blue Devils: '99, '00, '01, '02 & '03 ACC Champions
"We don't compete -- we WIN." http://www.goduke.com
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
Colin William
> Huh? They finally make a deal -- and THIS it it? Ray freakin'
King?!
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> "King sent to Atlanta for Helms, Foster"
>
> NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) - The Milwaukee Brewers acquired third baseman
Wes
> Helms and left-handed pitcher John Foster from the Atlanta Braves in
exchange
> for left-handed setup man Ray King on Monday.
There has to be some sort of deal in the works to get a 3B; I can't imagine
JS is looking to go into the season with Vinny and derosa as his 3B options,
unless he expects Betemit to also be in the mix.
Colin
Jon Richardson
"CoolHandDukeTheBlueDevilMan" <cwhit...@aol.comIiIiIiI> wrote in message
> Foster made his major league debut last season. He appeared in five
games
> in relief for Atlanta, going 1-0 with a 10.80 ERA. Most of his season was
spent
> at Triple-A Richmond, where he was 8-4 with a 4.21 ERA in 55 games, all in
> relief.
> King was 3-2 with a 3.05 ERA in 76 relief appearances for Milwaukee.
He
> struck out 50 batters in 65 innings.
I can live with this. King looks like a nice guy to have in the bullpen,
career ERA+ of 138, won't make an awful lot in arbitration (and he may not
even be eligible for another year). Helms was never going to be a starter
and King is probably a better option than Foster would be.
My only concern from this is that because the Braves just traded Wes Helms,
it would seem to indicate that they have a different plan for 1B. Although
it could be Franco/Franco/Castilla, this just tends to increase my fear that
McGriff will be putting on a Braves uniform shortly.
Jon
zambi
2.91 ERA. He pitched in a near-franchise record 82 games in 2001, when he
was the only lefty in the bullpen for most of the season. His debut was
horrible last season, but he pitched under "3.00" the rest of the '02
season.
He's a big "community guy" and is described as having a "blue collar work
ethic."
Helms needs to go somewhere and play everyday and Foster is about or just
about out of options. Seems the Braves actually had King at Macon in '96 on
paper as the player to be named later in a trade with the Reds in '96.
Anyone recall what trade that was?
Good lefty out of the pen to replace Hammy... good guy... works hard...
looks pretty good to me!
Tarkus
> Huh? They finally make a deal -- and THIS it it? Ray freakin' King?!
The rebuilding of the bullpen begins. A 3.05 ERA in 65 innings is pretty
good towards that end, without knowing anything else about him. Helms
was a spare part at best, and Foster was no big loss. Seems like a
decent trade to me. Not earth shattering, but it probably improved the
team.
--
"Patience. I personally believe that every at-bat you'll get at least
one pitch to hit. You've got to be patient and ready to hit it."
- Terry Pendleton
Rob Soltero
to mind when I read the headline. Jeff King is out of MLB (I hear the Devil
Rays are interested in bringing him back, but can't decide whether to give
him a three or four year deal), but with Milwaukee you just never know. I
don't know who the hell Ray is, but at least it's not Jeff. Or Larry, for
that matter.
On the flip-side, Wes Helms is gone. I'm probably happy for him. He has a
better chance of cracking the Brewer lineup than Atlanta's.
All in all, this is quite an underwhelming transaction.
-Rob
"CoolHandDukeTheBlueDevilMan" <cwhit...@aol.comIiIiIiI> wrote in message
news:20021216162451...@mb-mc.aol.com...
Rob Soltero
> There has to be some sort of deal in the works to get a 3B;
Can Jeff Kent play 3rd? Two years at 3rd and one at 1st? Three year deal,
$7M per. Not that I'd do it (I'd pursue other avenues first, like the
Minaya Tollway), but JS could do a lot worse.
-Rob
"Colin William" <colint...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:atlgqm$bs41$1...@ID-109505.news.dfncis.de...
CoolHandDukeTheBlueDevilMan
>On 16 Dec 2002 21:24:51 GMT, CoolHandDukeTheBlueDevilMan wrote:
>
>> Huh? They finally make a deal -- and THIS it it? Ray freakin' King?!
>
>The rebuilding of the bullpen begins. A 3.05 ERA in 65 innings is pretty
>good towards that end, without knowing anything else about him. Helms
>was a spare part at best, and Foster was no big loss. Seems like a
>decent trade to me. Not earth shattering, but it probably improved the
>team.
Perhaps so ... but it creates additional questions at 3B and 1B. It had looked
like the Braves were maybe going with a Helms/M. Franco platoon at 1B in '03
and that Helms would be a backup (or perhaps a starter) at 3B (he even played
some outfield last season).
JS must have some other deals cooking, but what are they?
(King must feel like he's been released from jail. Milwaukee to Atlanta is a
substantial move upwards.)
Alan Honeycutt
(CoolHandDukeTheBlueDevilMan) wrote:
>>The rebuilding of the bullpen begins. A 3.05 ERA in 65 innings is pretty
>>good towards that end, without knowing anything else about him. Helms
>>was a spare part at best, and Foster was no big loss. Seems like a
>>decent trade to me. Not earth shattering, but it probably improved the
>>team.
>
>Perhaps so ... but it creates additional questions at 3B and 1B. It had looked
>like the Braves were maybe going with a Helms/M. Franco platoon at 1B in '03
>and that Helms would be a backup (or perhaps a starter) at 3B (he even played
>some outfield last season).
I don't really think that this creates that many additional questions.
Was Wes Helms the answer...to anything? I don't think so. Sure, he
can hit like Vinny Castilla but that's not saying much. I think that
the 3B and 1B situations are pretty much unchanged - we don't know
who's playing either. There is really no good 1B option in-house
(other than M. Franco who is unlikely to have a repeat of last year).
3B should go to Giles or DeRosa (whoever's not playing 2B). I don't
think that Helms _should_ have factored in at either position this
year.
>JS must have some other deals cooking, but what are they?
I tell ya, if we get out of this offseason with Maddux and/or Vazquez
and someone that can play 1st or 3rd with an OBP > about .360, I'll be
happy (assuming we haven't given up the farm in the process). JS
hasn't done anything stupid yet so I'm still being optimistic.
>(King must feel like he's been released from jail. Milwaukee to Atlanta is a
>substantial move upwards.)
I like this move. King is signed for $380K this year with a $1 mil
team option for 2004 ($100K buyout). I have a feeling that he's a
year or two away from a big payday. When he throws up a 2.90 ERA in
160 IP over the next two years, do you think Jolly will gnash his
teeth when we don't resign him?
Jolly Rogers
> (King must feel like he's been released from jail. Milwaukee to Atlanta is a
> substantial move upwards.)
Wait until the "mental images" of Mike Hampton on the mound for the Braves
transpire into "the reality" of Mike Hampton on the mound for the Braves. When
there is no Glavine or Maddux around to cancel his negative effect, his impact
on the team will become obvious fairly quickly. King may not feel like he has
experienced "a substantial move upwards" once the reality of the new AOL-era
Braves becomes all too real.
I can't say that I'll miss Helms, although he may finally have a solid year now
that he has gone. John Foster showed real promise. I was very impressed by him
early on, and I really liked him. However, he had trouble with consistency both
in Richmond and Atlanta.
I don't know much about Ray King at this time, so I will reserve judgment until
I learn more. I saw a few of his stats from last year, but I'd like to evaluate
his consistency.
Jolly Rogers
Jon Richardson
"Colin William" <colint...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:atlgqm$bs41$1...@ID-109505.news.dfncis.de...
Or he could stick a place-holder 3B in there for this year (Derosa, Vinny,
Betemit, whomever) and go to arbitration with Maddux. Then in the winter of
2003 when J.Lopez's, Vinny's, Blanco's, Sheffield's and Maddux's contracts
are up (freeing up in the neighborhood of $35m or so) he goes full-tilt
after Troy Glaus and Vlad Guerrero. Even if Maddux re-signs long-term
losing the other four would free up enough cash to go after one, if not both
of them.
Jon
Jon Richardson
"Rob Soltero" <robc...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:5PrL9.414$1a1....@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> Well at least it's not Jeff King, who happens to be the first "King" to
come
> to mind when I read the headline. Jeff King is out of MLB (I hear the
Devil
> Rays are interested in bringing him back, but can't decide whether to give
> him a three or four year deal), but with Milwaukee you just never know. I
> don't know who the hell Ray is, but at least it's not Jeff. Or Larry, for
> that matter.
>
> On the flip-side, Wes Helms is gone. I'm probably happy for him. He has
a
> better chance of cracking the Brewer lineup than Atlanta's.
>
> All in all, this is quite an underwhelming transaction.
>
I'm kinda shocked that Milawukee is still picking up Atlanta's trash despite
Dean Taylor not being their GM anymore...
Jon
Jon Richardson
"Rob Soltero" <robc...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:bUrL9.421$1a1....@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> "Colin William" <colint...@hotmail.com> wrote
>
> > There has to be some sort of deal in the works to get a 3B;
>
> Can Jeff Kent play 3rd? Two years at 3rd and one at 1st? Three year
deal,
> $7M per. Not that I'd do it (I'd pursue other avenues first, like the
> Minaya Tollway), but JS could do a lot worse.
If Kent would be willing to play 1B then I'd pursue him and offer Cliff
Floyd area money (~$10m/season) for 3-4 years. Given the choice though, I'd
rather re-sign Maddux and Floyd with our remaining budget and pick up a
cheap option like David Ortiz for 1B (the more I say it, the more I like it)
Jon
Sam Hutcheson
ned yost is the manager.
s/
*****
"Don't give me that crap about individual rights." - S321Saint, asb.atlanta braves, 12/13/02
Sam Hutcheson
<an...@bellspam.nospam.net> wrote:
>On 16 Dec 2002 21:53:45 GMT, cwhit...@aol.comIiIiIiI
>(CoolHandDukeTheBlueDevilMan) wrote:
>
>>>The rebuilding of the bullpen begins. A 3.05 ERA in 65 innings is pretty
>>>good towards that end, without knowing anything else about him. Helms
>>>was a spare part at best, and Foster was no big loss. Seems like a
>>>decent trade to me. Not earth shattering, but it probably improved the
>>>team.
>>
>>Perhaps so ... but it creates additional questions at 3B and 1B. It had looked
>>like the Braves were maybe going with a Helms/M. Franco platoon at 1B in '03
>>and that Helms would be a backup (or perhaps a starter) at 3B (he even played
>>some outfield last season).
>
>I don't really think that this creates that many additional questions.
>Was Wes Helms the answer...to anything? I don't think so. Sure, he
>can hit like Vinny Castilla but that's not saying much. I think that
>the 3B and 1B situations are pretty much unchanged - we don't know
>who's playing either. There is really no good 1B option in-house
>(other than M. Franco who is unlikely to have a repeat of last year).
>3B should go to Giles or DeRosa (whoever's not playing 2B). I don't
>think that Helms _should_ have factored in at either position this
>year.
they offered arbitration to julio franco. julio franco is not good,
but he can do the same job as wes helms.
Jon Richardson
"Sam Hutcheson" <askmeabo...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:3dfe60cf...@news.cis.dfn.de...
Oh Yeah...my mistake.....
Jon
Eric Roush
sent back to Durham in 1997 and moved to the pen. IIRC, he had a wedding
on the field during his second stint with the Bulls. He went to the Cubs
in 1998.
Courtesy of TSN.ca (I don't believe that I had to go to Canada to get
this information.)
16-Apr-00: Chicago Cubs traded Ray King to the Milwaukee Brewers for
Doug Johnston.
20-Jan-98: Atlanta Braves traded Ray King to the Chicago Cubs for Jon
Ratliff.
11-Jun-96: Cincinnati Reds traded Ray King to the Atlanta Braves
completing deal which saw the Braves trade Mike Kelly for Andy Fox and a
player to be named later.
22-Mar-96: Loaned by the Cincinnati Reds to the Atlanta Braves.
01-Jun-95: Drafted by the Cincinnati Reds in the 8th round in 1995.
--
Eric Roush edr...@acpub.duke.edu
This sig. brought to you by Red Wrigglers, the Cadillac of Worms.
dav...@cxxxxxxx.rr.com
>
> Helms needs to go somewhere and play everyday and Foster is about or
> just about out of options. Seems the Braves actually had King at Macon
> in '96 on paper as the player to be named later in a trade with the
> Reds in '96. Anyone recall what trade that was?
Ray King was a player obtained from the Reds in 1996 along with Chad
Fox for Mike Kelly.
DOB 1/15/1974
6'1" 240lbs
1995 Billings Rookie League Reds
1996 Macon 3-5-0 2.80era 71ip 20bb 63k
1996 Durham 3-6-0 4.46 83 15 52
1997 GVL 5-5-0 6.85 66 24 42
1997 Durham 6-9-3 5.40 72 26 60
traded to the Cubs for Jon Ratliff 1/98
1998 AA/AAA
1999 AAA/ Cubs
traded to Brewers for Doug Johnston 4/2000
2000 AAA/ Brewers
He was mainly a starter until he was demoted back to Durham
in 1997 and became a long reliever/spot starter. He went to
full time short relief in 1998 though he was never a closer
at any level. His K rate has risen to about 1 er inning over
the last several years, though his control is still spotty.
90+mph fastball, sinker, slider.
Tough on LH-- 600 OPS against LH, 740 RH in 2002
550/750 over the last 3 seasons).
Mainly been the spot LHP to get a LH hitter out averaging
2 outs per appearance over the last 3 seasons and gets to
face a lot of RH pinch hitters.
Tarkus
> they offered arbitration to julio franco. julio franco is not good,
> but he can do the same job as wes helms.
He can't play 3B.
--
"I'm sick to my stomach with what I've done this series. I let myself
down, everybody on the team down and everybody in Atlanta down."
- Tom Glavine on his 2002 NLDS performance
CoolHandDukeTheBlueDevilMan
>On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 23:25:47 GMT, Sam Hutcheson wrote:
>
>> they offered arbitration to julio franco. julio franco is not good,
>> but he can do the same job as wes helms.
>
>He can't play 3B.
Or OF. (Hell, he doesn't play 1B too well, either.)
Sam Hutcheson
>On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 23:25:47 GMT, Sam Hutcheson wrote:
>
>> they offered arbitration to julio franco. julio franco is not good,
>> but he can do the same job as wes helms.
>
>He can't play 3B.
wes helms wasn't going to play 3B next year either.
s/
*****
Admiral John Poindexter
10 Barrington Fare
Rockville, MD 20850-3001
(301) 424-6613
Directions available on request.
Tarkus
> On Tue, 17 Dec 2002 01:27:24 GMT, Tarkus <karn...@beer.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 23:25:47 GMT, Sam Hutcheson wrote:
>>
>>> they offered arbitration to julio franco. julio franco is not good,
>>> but he can do the same job as wes helms.
>>
>>He can't play 3B.
>
> wes helms wasn't going to play 3B next year either.
He would be a backup, something Franco can't do. IOW, he would give the
team a lot more flexibility. I'm not saying the trade for King shouldn't
have been made. I'm only saying Helms is slightly more valuable than
Father Time...er Franco.
--
"Maybe I should get on the stuff, so I'd hold up better.
Get a bigger neck, get some zits on my back."
- Greg Maddux on the subject of steroids
Craig Nance
Hutcheson) wrote:
>On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 17:11:47 -0500, Alan Honeycutt
><an...@bellspam.nospam.net> wrote:
>
>>On 16 Dec 2002 21:53:45 GMT, cwhit...@aol.comIiIiIiI
>>(CoolHandDukeTheBlueDevilMan) wrote:
>>
[snip]
>
>they offered arbitration to julio franco. julio franco is not good,
>but he can do the same job as wes helms.
The only caveat I would make to that statement is that Helms can play
two more positions than Julio, which does count for something
(although if he's a starter it means less). As far as Helms ever
amounting to a lot, well, he's 26 (can you believe it-seems like just
yesterday he was possibly the next semi-big bat in the lineup) and
hasn't given indications that he's more than what he has shown so
far-an adequate bench jockey.
Colin William
> >He can't play 3B.
>
> wes helms wasn't going to play 3B next year either.
I got the feeling Bobby was willing to play him over Vinny at 3B until he
got hurt last season. Vinny was nominally hurt, but that seemed like mroe an
excuse at the time for Bobby to do what he'd planned to do anyway.
Still, I'm not exactly all broken up about the trade.
Colin
Colin William
> On December 16 2002, you wrote:
> >
> > Helms needs to go somewhere and play everyday and Foster is about or
> > just about out of options. Seems the Braves actually had King at Macon
> > in '96 on paper as the player to be named later in a trade with the
> > Reds in '96. Anyone recall what trade that was?
>
> Ray King was a player obtained from the Reds in 1996 along with Chad
> Fox for Mike Kelly.
Woooo, second citation of Mike Kelly this week!
> Tough on LH-- 600 OPS against LH, 740 RH in 2002
> 550/750 over the last 3 seasons).
> Mainly been the spot LHP to get a LH hitter out averaging
> 2 outs per appearance over the last 3 seasons and gets to
> face a lot of RH pinch hitters.
I expect Bobby will use him a little more than this. I want to think Bobby
never really has latched on to much to the pure spot reliever, at least not
to this extent.
Colin
zambi
"Refractor"super hard to find card I have is...yes... Mike Kelly.
The Dude
Brew-crew, when given full playing time.
Dude
"Jolly Rogers" <jolly...@nospam.org> wrote in message
news:1DsL9.34259$0b.13...@news2.east.cox.net...
Colin William
> Yeah, I expect he'll pull a "Klesko" and be a decent hitter for the
> Brew-crew, when given full playing time.
Not likely. Klesko was a damn fine hitter before he left Atlanta, ten times
the hitter Helms ever has been.
Colin
Sam Hutcheson
yuh. what he said. wes helms may hit a few homeruns next year, if he
plays 3B full time in miller park. but his OBP will be atrocious and
his slugging will be mediocre at best.
Ben
> plays 3B full time in miller park. but
> his OBP will be atrocious and
> his slugging will be mediocre at best.
where "atrocious" means "league average for a 3b."
--
Ben