The fork in the road... decision time
Jolly Rogers
One fork in the road means "standing pat" with the current roster. This will assure the Braves reach the playoffs, and perhaps even the World Series, but it highly unlikely in my mind that they could win a World Championship without a more credible offense. I'm not even convinced they could defeat the Snakes in a 7 game series either.
Pro: Keeping young quality players "in house" for the future.
Con: No World Championship this year, and possibly, not even an appearance in the World Series.
The other fork in the road means sacrificing some of the future to win a World Championship now. Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz aren't getting any younger. The entire team pitching is the very best in MLB. The defense is stellar. The Braves are, perhaps, two solid bats away from being virtually unstoppable. But can they afford it with the mothership awash with economic problems? If they could somehow manage to acquire two more very credible, big name bats, at the expense of Albie Lopez, Jason Marquis, Marcus Giles, Tim Spooneybarger, Vinny Castilla, Keith Lockhart, Julio Franco, Adam Wainwright, Trey Hodges, and Wilson Betemit, then I believe the Braves should do it. I don't like the idea of losing Marquis, Spooneybarger, Wainwright, or Hodges at all, but if it means a World Championship, the sacrifice must be made, otherwise what the hell is the point in coming up "barely short" year after year, only to repeat the cycle? Yes, the Braves have enjoyed unarguable, tremendous success for over a decade now, but God-damnit, only one World Championship! Damn that!!! The Yankees must fall!
Pro: World Championship this year
Con: Potentially thin years ahead, as the Braves are forced to divest themselves of salaries following this season, and having precious little minor league talent to immediately draw upon.
In summary, the choice is clear. Acquire more bats that can blast a gaping hole in the opposing wall, and finish the damn job this time! Finishing second, third, or forth doesn't cut it anymore! (Not that it ever did to begin with.)
But alas, money is a very serious problem. JS may truly be unable to act at all. Sigh...
Jolly Rogers
Colin William
>>One fork in the road means "standing pat" with the current roster. This
will assure the Braves reach the playoffs, and perhaps even the World
Series, but it highly unlikely in my mind that they could win a World
Championship without a more credible offense. I'm not even convinced they
could defeat the Snakes in a 7 game series either.
Pro: Keeping young quality players "in house" for the future.
Con: No World Championship this year, and possibly, not even an appearance
in the World Series.<<
Also Pro: there may not be a postseason; in which case unloading young
players becomes even more risky than in any other year. Giving up anyone for
a stretch run is a risk that seldom pays off for most teams; but giving up
young talent for a few weeks of August play followed by no postseason, that
would be truly heartbreaking.
>>The other fork in the road means sacrificing some of the future to win a
World Championship now. Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz aren't getting any
younger. The entire team pitching is the very best in MLB. The defense is
stellar. The Braves are, perhaps, two solid bats away from being virtually
unstoppable. But can they afford it with the mothership awash with economic
problems? <<
As mentioned elsewhere, don't AOL problems, assuming they'd filter to the
team level, demand that we keep the young players?
I am wholly in favor of trading for a good player. The problem with your
scenario is that so far, many trades have been made for lesser players; that
is, giving up Marquis/Giles would be giving up more than I think any other
team has in a trade for a bat this season. And I don't see JS being smart
enough to get equal value for them.
And that's where I think your demand for a trade involving those guys falls
flat. Simply put, what do you think are the odds of JS trading _for_ someone
good? Look at his trade history and free agent acquisition history in recent
years, especially on the offensive front. You got, what, Sheffield, which is
good, and then a fair load of steaming crap. When you ask that the team be
willing to give up the guys you suggest, you are asking that they be given
up in exchange for _a_ _player_ _John_ _Schuerholz_ _thinks_ _is_ _good_.
And frankly, that scares me.
So I think you're addressing realpolitik in one aspect - the idea that good
young players need to be given up to get talent - and ignoring it in the
more important aspect - the fact that John Schuerholz is damned unlikely to
get an actual good hitter in return.
>>Yes, the Braves have enjoyed unarguable, tremendous success for over a
decade now, but God-damnit, only one World Championship! Damn that!!! The
Yankees must fall!<<
Um, the Yankees did fall. Game seven, last year.
>>In summary, the choice is clear. Acquire more bats that can blast a
gaping hole in the opposing wall, and finish the damn job this time!
Finishing second, third, or forth doesn't cut it anymore! (Not that it ever
did to begin with.) <<
Just be careful what you ask for - you may turn us into the Mets...
Btw, did you change the formating or encoding on your posts? I can't get
good formatting when I reply to anymore...
Colin
Jolly Rogers
> And that's where I think your demand for a trade involving those guys falls
> flat.
My demand? Colin, I am outspoken enough without you adding to what I say. Jeez... I never demanded a trade for those people I named. I merely suggested that they are tradable, some quite painfully, if the Braves are serious about contending and winning a World Championship this year.
Jolly Rogers
Jolly Rogers
> So I think you're addressing realpolitik in one aspect - the idea that
good
> young players need to be given up to get talent - and ignoring it in the
> more important aspect - the fact that John Schuerholz is damned unlikely
to
> get an actual good hitter in return.
I agree.
> Um, the Yankees did fall. Game seven, last year.
I mean "to us (Braves)."
> Btw, did you change the formating or encoding on your posts? I can't get
> good formatting when I reply to anymore...
Yes, I did. Sorry. I was trying to get posted links to wrap. I altered
the plain text settings 'mime encode text option' from "none" to "quoted
printable." That was supposed to allow lengthy links to wrap (or truncate).
Damn, Microsoft. :-| I switched it back. Thanks for alerting me. I
wasn't noticing a difference here. Thanks again. Please tell me if my
formatting is still "odd."
Jolly Rogers
Colin William
> the plain text settings 'mime encode text option' from "none" to "quoted
> printable." That was supposed to allow lengthy links to wrap (or
truncate).
> Damn, Microsoft. :-| I switched it back. Thanks for alerting me. I
> wasn't noticing a difference here. Thanks again. Please tell me if my
> formatting is still "odd."
Seems to be working for me again, thanks.
In truth, trade prospects do intrigue me. So often guys end up going for
less than anticipated, and I wish JS would be aggressive at lowballing other
GMs just to see what he can pull off. Hell, maybe he is and they just don't
want to help Atlanta *shrug*
Colin
Sam Hutcheson
<jolly...@nospam.org> wrote:
>The Braves have the pitching necessary to go to the World Series and win =
>it. They have the defense to go to World Series and win it. They do =
>not have the offense to go to World Series and win it. So there we have =
>it. Will this be another season of making the playoffs, and falling =
>short of the final goal, or do the Braves do everything necessary to =
>reach the apex of the mountain this year, and stand alone at the top?
>
>One fork in the road means "standing pat" with the current roster. This =
>will assure the Braves reach the playoffs, and perhaps even the World =
>Series, but it highly unlikely in my mind that they could win a World =
>Championship without a more credible offense. I'm not even convinced =
>they could defeat the Snakes in a 7 game series either. =20
>
>Pro: Keeping young quality players "in house" for the future.
>
>Con: No World Championship this year, and possibly, not even an =
>appearance in the World Series.
>
>The other fork in the road means sacrificing some of the future to win a =
>World Championship now. Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz aren't getting any =
>younger. The entire team pitching is the very best in MLB. The defense =
>is stellar. The Braves are, perhaps, two solid bats away from being =
>virtually unstoppable. But can they afford it with the mothership awash =
okay, where are the holes, and who is available to fill them?
second base. lockhart is the hole. marcus giles is waiting in AAA
until his quad is good. who is out there that is better than marcus
giles? (or, if you must continue your idolatry of mark derosa, who
out there is better than him.?) i doubt jose vidro is available.
third base: castilla is the hole. rolen is off the market. who is
out there to fill it? recall that the best 3B in baseball is playing
LF right now, so you can fill with an OF if you can find it. the
obvious answer is cliff floyd, who is probably available again now
that the expos have fallen out of it. who do you give up in order to
get floyd. remember, if you're going to fill the hole at 2B you can't
go trading away the 2B that's going to fill that hole.
catcher: blanco/lopez have been the hole. who's out there to fill
it? do you really want to spend the prospects it would take just to
take a flyer on pudge rodriguez' health, knowing full well that the
odds of the braves resigning him as a $10+ free agent next year is
small? or do you just tread water with blanco's defense and hope javy
finds two months' worth of hitting down the stretch?
those are the offensive holes. i strongly suggest that with the
exception of cliff floyd, assuming he's available and doesn't cost a
giles/wainwright/betemit combination to get, is the only reasonably
effective trade solution out there. otherwise you're just trading for
what, part time at bats with ellis burks in a non-DH league? you do
remember reggie sanders, don't you?
the problem with the braves offense isn't something you need to trade
to fix. the vast majority of the braves' offensive woes hinge on
vinny castilla. if someone in the organization, namely bobby cox,
could get past the myth of his defense (and get JS to admit that sunk
costs are sunk), this team's post-season chances increase simply by
benching him in favor of darren bragg. getting a real 2B back from
injury will help tremendously too.
s/
*****
"You should know that Beck is the Christina Aguilera of
the indie set." -- from jaguaro.com's 100 Worst Albums list
Justin Devereaux
"Sam Hutcheson" <sa...@bell.nospam.south.nospamdammit.net> wrote in message
> the problem with the braves offense isn't something you need to trade
> to fix. the vast majority of the braves' offensive woes hinge on
> vinny castilla. if someone in the organization, namely bobby cox,
> could get past the myth of his defense (and get JS to admit that sunk
> costs are sunk), this team's post-season chances increase simply by
> benching him in favor of darren bragg. getting a real 2B back from
> injury will help tremendously too.
>
Chipper back to third and Darren Bragg to left actually be a defensive
upgrade, along with making us all very happy? I don't believe Chipper is
that big of a downgrade at third, but we would lose the chest high throws.
--
JD
Jolly Rogers
way in Heaven or Hades that Chipper is returning to 3B this year. I'm not
saying I'm against the idea, but it will not happen. Chipper is the Braves'
LF, and we all need to accept that. And we all need to stop being so
pretentious about the matter. For the past couple of years, especially last
year, most of us complained when Chipper made a blunder at 3B. We all
fantasized about the Braves' acquiring Rolen and moving Chipper moving to
LF. Well, we got part of what we asked for, as well as more than what we
bargained for. Now, we're lamenting our calls for Chipper in LF. (Notice,
I am saying "we" because I was right there with most of you in speaking
about Chipper moving to LF last season and during the off-season, so I am
not pointing a finger of accuse here.)
The point? Chipper is going to stay in LF until the season is completely
finished, and the post-season in completely finished. Vinny is not coming
out, unless he is injured. If he is injured, look for Wes Helms to takeover
at 3B. Bobby would not move Chipper to 3B and play Bragg in LF if Vinny
goes down to an injury. We all know this. He does not manage that way.
Caveat: In the very unlikely (but more likely than last week) event that
Cliff Floyd comes to Atlanta within the next 2 days, Vinny may suddenly (and
mysteriously) succumb to an injury and be placed on the DL, and Chipper
would immediately be moved to 3B. But I simply can't envision Bobby
allowing this to happen to Vinny, because Bobby seems to view solid defense
as being next to Godliness, and I can't say that I disagree with him. Solid
defense supports the Braves' long-lived philosophy of low scoring games in
which the combination of superior pitching/superior defense prevails. Vinny
has been a real stopper at 3B, although there seems to be some question
about his lateral range, and there may be some point to the assertions that
he doesn't make it to as many balls as he should. I haven't really
witnessed that a lot, and it certainly hasn't stood out to me as a glaring
problem with Vinny. Of course, popping out to the degree he does stands out
as a serious offensive weakness, and there are other problems, as well.
Jolly Rogers
"Justin Devereaux" <justindever...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:qdw19.29$4P....@eagle.america.net...
Colin William
> way in Heaven or Hades that Chipper is returning to 3B this year. I'm not
> saying I'm against the idea, but it will not happen. Chipper is the
Braves'
> LF, and we all need to accept that. And we all need to stop being so
> pretentious about the matter. For the past couple of years, especially
last
> year, most of us complained when Chipper made a blunder at 3B. We all
> fantasized about the Braves' acquiring Rolen and moving Chipper moving to
> LF. Well, we got part of what we asked for, as well as more than what we
> bargained for. Now, we're lamenting our calls for Chipper in LF.
(Notice,
> I am saying "we" because I was right there with most of you in speaking
> about Chipper moving to LF last season and during the off-season, so I am
> not pointing a finger of accuse here.)
Huh? I thought most people in here were against moving Chipper to LF, and
not just before we saw who'd be replacing him. Maybe I'm just suffering
memory interference here, but I'm pretty sure that when this all came up
after the playoffs most people were opposed to the idea.
> But I simply can't envision Bobby
> allowing this to happen to Vinny, because Bobby seems to view solid
defense
> as being next to Godliness, and I can't say that I disagree with him.
Solid
> defense supports the Braves' long-lived philosophy of low scoring games in
> which the combination of superior pitching/superior defense prevails.
I can't say I disagree with your analysis of the way Bobby thinks, but
clearly this combination, while successful in the regular season, has not
worked consistently in the postseason *shrug*
Vinny
> has been a real stopper at 3B, although there seems to be some question
> about his lateral range, and there may be some point to the assertions
that
> he doesn't make it to as many balls as he should. I haven't really
> witnessed that a lot, and it certainly hasn't stood out to me as a glaring
> problem with Vinny. Of course, popping out to the degree he does stands
out
> as a serious offensive weakness, and there are other problems, as well.
That's the thing. Someone with a bat as truly putrid as his should either
stand out as conspicuously the best defensive 3B there is, bar none. Simply
not being a problem doesn't cut it. He has to be Brooks Robinson over there
to offset his terrible bat, and even then I'm not sure he would.
Colin
Sam Hutcheson
<jolly...@nospam.org> wrote:
>Okay, everyone needs to stop deluding themselves and others. There is no
>way in Heaven or Hades that Chipper is returning to 3B this year. I'm not
>saying I'm against the idea, but it will not happen. Chipper is the Braves'
>LF, and we all need to accept that. And we all need to stop being so
>pretentious about the matter. For the past couple of years, especially last
>year, most of us complained when Chipper made a blunder at 3B. We all
>fantasized about the Braves' acquiring Rolen and moving Chipper moving to
>LF. Well, we got part of what we asked for, as well as more than what we
>bargained for. Now, we're lamenting our calls for Chipper in LF. (Notice,
>I am saying "we" because I was right there with most of you in speaking
>about Chipper moving to LF last season and during the off-season, so I am
>not pointing a finger of accuse here.)
be more careful with that universal "we" you're throwing around up
there. a lot of people whinnied and whined about chipper's defense at
3B, including a lot of announcers and radio hosts, but *i* didn't. i
have always stated that chipper was perfectly average defensively and
should not be moved to the OF unless someone truly special came along
to move him. i would have moved him for rolen, but that is all.
so, pay attention. i'm not being pretensious or two-faced about
anything. it was a terrible idea to sign vinny castilla at all, a
point i made when he was signed this winter (with the only caveat
being that he might be useful if he could hit like he did in houston,
but that that was unlikely.) it was a terrible idea to move chipper
to make room for the guy. and it is a terrible idea to continue to
play him when he is clearly and without question hurting the team by
being in the lineup.
>The point? Chipper is going to stay in LF until the season is completely
>finished, and the post-season in completely finished. Vinny is not coming
>out, unless he is injured. If he is injured, look for Wes Helms to takeover
>at 3B. Bobby would not move Chipper to 3B and play Bragg in LF if Vinny
>goes down to an injury. We all know this. He does not manage that way.
what bobby cox will or will not do is not my impetus for posting on
this board. cox very well may play castilla every day from here until
2004. john schuerholz very well may trade marcus giles for nothing of
any real worth. it won't be the first time either of those guys did
the *wrong thing.* i'm just pointing out the fact that the simple
solution happens to be the most effective one, and all it costs is
cox/JS eating a little ego in order to implement it.
of course, a stupid trade is just as likely at *that* happening.
>Caveat: In the very unlikely (but more likely than last week) event that
>Cliff Floyd comes to Atlanta within the next 2 days, Vinny may suddenly (and
>mysteriously) succumb to an injury and be placed on the DL, and Chipper
>would immediately be moved to 3B. But I simply can't envision Bobby
>allowing this to happen to Vinny, because Bobby seems to view solid defense
>as being next to Godliness, and I can't say that I disagree with him. Solid
>defense supports the Braves' long-lived philosophy of low scoring games in
>which the combination of superior pitching/superior defense prevails. Vinny
>has been a real stopper at 3B, although there seems to be some question
>about his lateral range, and there may be some point to the assertions that
>he doesn't make it to as many balls as he should. I haven't really
>witnessed that a lot, and it certainly hasn't stood out to me as a glaring
>problem with Vinny. Of course, popping out to the degree he does stands out
>as a serious offensive weakness, and there are other problems, as well.
ignoring for the moment the fact that vinny isn't nearly as good as he
is mythologized to be, he wouldn't be worth a starting spot EVEN IF HE
WERE. he can't hit. period. he's old and washed up and should have
been allowed to retire last year.
Jolly Rogers
> That's the thing. Someone with a bat as truly putrid as his should either
> stand out as conspicuously the best defensive 3B there is, bar none.
Simply
> not being a problem doesn't cut it. He has to be Brooks Robinson over
there
> to offset his terrible bat, and even then I'm not sure he would.
But that's just it, man. He isn't truly putrid or terribly bad on offense,
he is mediocre to "mediocre minus." I'm not trying to split hairs, but he
isn't THAT bad. He should be driving in more runs with the bats ahead of
him though. A lot more. His propensity to pop out on homerun cuts is the
most disturbing thing to me about his offense.
Jolly Rogers
Colin William
"Jolly Rogers" <jolly...@nospam.org> wrote
> But that's just it, man. He isn't truly putrid or terribly bad on
offense,
> he is mediocre to "mediocre minus." I'm not trying to split hairs, but he
> isn't THAT bad. He should be driving in more runs with the bats ahead of
> him though. A lot more. His propensity to pop out on homerun cuts is the
> most disturbing thing to me about his offense.
The man is putrid on offense, Jolly. He is terribly, terribly bad. How does
he suck? let me count the ways...
238/270/363 on the season. Baseball Prospectus has him at 4th-worst in their
EQA rankings for third basemen, and the guys behind him have considerably
less playing time. one, Mike Benjamin, has less than 100 PA total - the
other two are aramis ramirez and graig paquette. When a champioship team has
a 3B who is ranked at the bottom of the pack in offense along with the 3B's
of Pittsburgh and detroit, that's damned bad. Oh, and Vinny never has to
face the best pitching staff in the majors, either.
He's so bad ("how bad is he?" the crowd asks)...
That 270 OBP he's sporting this season? That's equal to Rafael Belliard's
career OBP, most of which was put up in a lower offense era. That's very
bad, and is actually somewhat inflated by 4 of his 14 walks this season
having been _intentional_ (with another 4 HBP in there too). His OPS for
this season is only 46 points above the career OPS of Rey ordonez, and about
the same above the OPS we got out of Pendleton II. You remember Pendleton
II - doesn't that make you shudder as you think about a postseason replay?
His OPS is 70 points below that of his most likely replacement, Wes Helms.
It's the same as the OPS Rico Brogna had when we released him last year, and
abot 50 points less than Quilvio's OPS when he was dumped. It's about 20
points below the OPS put up last year by Paul friggin' Bako.
With runners in scoring position he's hitting 210/280/324. with nobody on
he's hitting 231/254/352. So he neither gets batters home well, nor does he
get on base for others to drive him home. In ESPN's "close and late" stat
he's at 211/273/268. Oh, and he has 16 double plays too, just for good
measure.
When Greg Maddux pitches, they almost oughta bat him 6th, for crying out
loud. Though his OPS is worse, his BA is better than that of Castilla,
Lockhart and Blanco (actually his OPS is a bit better than Blanco's
Mediocre to mediocre-minus? I'd maybe give that distinction to Rafael Furcal
and his 330 OBP out of the leadoff spot. Or the 722 OPS from Franco at first
base. But Vinny? Vinny is bad with the stick. really, really bad.
Colin
Chris Thompson
"Colin William" <colint...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ai69g6$11u8pn$1...@ID-109505.news.dfncis.de...
Among everday 3B, he has the second lowest RC27, ahead of only Aramis
Rameriz. That just flat out sucks.
Sam Hutcheson
<c...@sutherslaw.com> wrote:
>Among everday 3B, he has the second lowest RC27, ahead of only Aramis
>Rameriz. That just flat out sucks.
precisely. there is no way in the world to justify castilla's
continued existence, really. at least no rational way. all anyone
has to do to approach sanity with regard to castilla is ask themselves
one simple question:
would i be satsified starting rey ordonez at 3B?
because that is what the braves are doing.
Dale Hicks
sa...@bell.nospam.south.nospamdammit.net says...
>
> those are the offensive holes. i strongly suggest that with the
> exception of cliff floyd, assuming he's available and doesn't cost a
> giles/wainwright/betemit combination to get, is the only reasonably
> effective trade solution out there. otherwise you're just trading for
> what, part time at bats with ellis burks in a non-DH league? you do
> remember reggie sanders, don't you?
Is Thome off the market? Since I doubt that Bobby'd move Chipper in mid-
season, bumping up the first base production couldn't hurt.
Yeah, free Giles or DeRosa.
--
Cranial Crusader dgh...@bellsouth.net
Dale Hicks
colint...@hotmail.com says...
>
> [Castilla]
> That 270 OBP he's sporting this season? That's equal to Rafael Belliard's
> career OBP, most of which was put up in a lower offense era. That's very
> bad, and is actually somewhat inflated by 4 of his 14 walks this season
> having been _intentional_ (with another 4 HBP in there too).
Of the 89 players qualified for the batting title, his OBP leads only
Ramirez, Ordonez, and Izturis. And that's Aramis, not Manny. (he's 72nd
in SLG)
Just keep repeating "chest high throws" (as long as he doesn't have to
charge the ball)
I keep hoping the statheads will get surprised one day (a la Galarraga),
but they're 2 for 2 with Brogna and Castilla.
--
Cranial Crusader dgh...@bellsouth.net
Dale Hicks
sa...@bell.nospam.south.nospamdammit.net says...
>
> be more careful with that universal "we" you're throwing around up
> there. a lot of people whinnied and whined about chipper's defense at
> 3B, including a lot of announcers and radio hosts, but *i* didn't. i
> have always stated that chipper was perfectly average defensively
FWIW, I agreed (and still agree) with you. I didn't see a big problem
with him at third, and thought he was the best at charging the ball after
Caminiti went to pot.
That said, if he's really 2nd in ZR then wasn't this an upgrade after
all? If the stat's well-defined (such that being good at covering your
zone really helps your team the most), then perhaps it's a good thing to
get a LF bat in left if he moves from being average at third to being the
best in left? If the third basemen available (say, Giles) hit roughly
equivalent to whatever you could plug into left (say, Lombard), then this
has to be true, assuming they'd be average defensively. What a game the
managers play, and they have to deal with human egos as well.
> and
> should not be moved to the OF unless someone truly special came along
> to move him. i would have moved him for rolen, but that is all.
Wasn't there a scenario when ARod pushed Furcal or Giles or Betemit to
third?
--
Cranial Crusader dgh...@bellsouth.net
Terry May
<dgh...@bellSPAMsouth.net.invalid> wrote:
>FWIW, I agreed (and still agree) with you. I didn't see a big problem
>with him at third, and thought he was the best at charging the ball after
>Caminiti went to pot.
Steroids, not pot. AFAIK, he never touched the wacky tobacky.
--
"Well, I've marveled at him since the day I got here, and I marvel at
him now. I'm kind of sick of marveling, to tell you the truth."
- Greg Maddux, on John Smoltz
Sam Hutcheson
wrote:
>On Tue, 30 Jul 2002 19:21:11 -0500, Dale Hicks
><dgh...@bellSPAMsouth.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>>FWIW, I agreed (and still agree) with you. I didn't see a big problem
>>with him at third, and thought he was the best at charging the ball after
>>Caminiti went to pot.
>
>Steroids, not pot. AFAIK, he never touched the wacky tobacky.
steriods and crack.
Sam Hutcheson
<dgh...@bellSPAMsouth.net.invalid> wrote:
>In article <3d469bd1...@news.atl.bellsouth.net>,
>sa...@bell.nospam.south.nospamdammit.net says...
>>
>> be more careful with that universal "we" you're throwing around up
>> there. a lot of people whinnied and whined about chipper's defense at
>> 3B, including a lot of announcers and radio hosts, but *i* didn't. i
>> have always stated that chipper was perfectly average defensively
>
>FWIW, I agreed (and still agree) with you. I didn't see a big problem
>with him at third, and thought he was the best at charging the ball after
>Caminiti went to pot.
>
>That said, if he's really 2nd in ZR then wasn't this an upgrade after
>all? If the stat's well-defined (such that being good at covering your
>zone really helps your team the most), then perhaps it's a good thing to
>get a LF bat in left if he moves from being average at third to being the
>best in left? If the third basemen available (say, Giles) hit roughly
>equivalent to whatever you could plug into left (say, Lombard), then this
>has to be true, assuming they'd be average defensively. What a game the
>managers play, and they have to deal with human egos as well.
a point well made. but if you replace surhoff or lombard with vinny
castilla, you've hurt your team.
>> and
>> should not be moved to the OF unless someone truly special came along
>> to move him. i would have moved him for rolen, but that is all.
>
>Wasn't there a scenario when ARod pushed Furcal or Giles or Betemit to
>third?
well, yes, there was. there was the obvious "would you like some of
my plasma too?" scenarios in which one tried to work arod into the
lineup.
Sam Hutcheson
<dgh...@bellSPAMsouth.net.invalid> wrote:
>In article <3d468568...@news.atl.bellsouth.net>,
>sa...@bell.nospam.south.nospamdammit.net says...
>>
>> those are the offensive holes. i strongly suggest that with the
>> exception of cliff floyd, assuming he's available and doesn't cost a
>> giles/wainwright/betemit combination to get, is the only reasonably
>> effective trade solution out there. otherwise you're just trading for
>> what, part time at bats with ellis burks in a non-DH league? you do
>> remember reggie sanders, don't you?
>
>Is Thome off the market? Since I doubt that Bobby'd move Chipper in mid-
>season, bumping up the first base production couldn't hurt.
i haven't seen anyone even rumoring thome anymore. which might mean
JS has a deal triggered for the 3:59 PR time slot tomorrow.
>Yeah, free Giles or DeRosa.
<sigh>