This'll go unmentioned if I don't mention it...
KeyHit
the Silver Slugger (his fourth?). Cool.
Anyone know when the other awards are handed out?
Billy
minn...@my-dejanews.com
Thanks, I thought I heard them say that, but then I decided they must have
been talking about Glavine's past awards. I'm not sure when the Gold Gloves
are announced.
/minnietee
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mw...@space.honeywell.com
key...@aol.comnospam (KeyHit) wrote:
> A brief aside by one of the Fox guys informed us that today Glavine was
awarded
> the Silver Slugger (his fourth?). Cool.
>
> Anyone know when the other awards are handed out?
>
> Billy
Someone please explain this to me. Glavine was not even the best hitter on
the team. I posted about a week ago the Braves pitchers batting stats and
Maddux was the best hitter this year among the Braves. My only guess is the
3 extra RBIs Glavine had. Maddux did however have 26 points of OPS and one
more run and hit (and point of batting average) than Glavine. I realize that
none of these are overwhelming advantages but I just don't see how Glavine
batted better than Maddux. I suspect that the awards go on reputation a bit,
sort of like Maddux with his Gold Gloves. He usually deserves them but
sometimes he is given the benefit of the doubt.
Maddux Shillingly,
Marty Winn
http://chuma.cas.usf.edu/~winn/marty/pages/gmaddux.htm
cvi...@forest.drew.edu
> A brief aside by one of the Fox guys informed us that today Glavine was awarded
> the Silver Slugger (his fourth?). Cool.
>
> Anyone know when the other awards are handed out?
I thought I recalled reading that Greg Maddux's two hits in the
final game gave him a higher batting average than Glavine?
chris
Michael Adams
cvi...@forest.drew.edu wrote in message ...
Yep, Maddux overall was a better hitter than Glavine - beating him by .01 in BA (.240 to .239) - but
more importanly getting on base more (.278 to .250). BUt all of this is moot, since there were two
*much* better hitting pitchers in the NL. If Glavine's winning of the Silver Slugger in '98 is
true, it just goes to show that managers/coaches pay more attention to reputation than reality (a la
the media):
Steve Trachsel: .266/.388/.359
Mike Hampton: .262/.348/.328
One of those two *deserves* the Silver Slugger.
-Mike
Terry May
>Someone please explain this to me. Glavine was not even the best hitter on
>the team. I posted about a week ago the Braves pitchers batting stats and
>Maddux was the best hitter this year among the Braves. My only guess is the
>3 extra RBIs Glavine had. Maddux did however have 26 points of OPS and one
>more run and hit (and point of batting average) than Glavine. I realize that
>none of these are overwhelming advantages but I just don't see how Glavine
>batted better than Maddux. I suspect that the awards go on reputation a bit,
>sort of like Maddux with his Gold Gloves. He usually deserves them but
>sometimes he is given the benefit of the doubt.
I thought the Silver Slugger award was simply awarded to the guy with
the highest batting average at his position. Is it voted on like the
other awards?
--
Otagger ß1.22: Terry May - Las Vegas NV
Atlanta Braves - 1995 World Series Champions!
Coral
had better numbers than Maddux. The voting took place two weeks before the
season ended, and in his last start Maddux got two hits which pushed him
ahead of Glavine. Besides, I don't think too many managers put much thought
into their votes, especially since their teams are still playing at the time
that they make their decisions. I think the managers also vote on the gold
glove awards, and just look at how many times Maddux has won that even
though both Glavine and Smoltz have been better fielders in some of those
years.
>Someone please explain this to me. Glavine was not even the best hitter on
>the team. I posted about a week ago the Braves pitchers batting stats and
>Maddux was the best hitter this year among the Braves. My only guess is the
>3 extra RBIs Glavine had. Maddux did however have 26 points of OPS and one
>more run and hit (and point of batting average) than Glavine. I realize
that
>none of these are overwhelming advantages but I just don't see how Glavine
>batted better than Maddux. I suspect that the awards go on reputation a
bit,
>sort of like Maddux with his Gold Gloves. He usually deserves them but
>sometimes he is given the benefit of the doubt.
>
Bill McMahon
>
> If Glavine's winning of the Silver Slugger in '98 is
> true, it just goes to show that managers/coaches pay more attention to reputation than reality (a la
> the media):
>
> Steve Trachsel: .266/.388/.359
> Mike Hampton: .262/.348/.328
>
> One of those two *deserves* the Silver Slugger.
Yup, especially since they both outhit Rey Ordonez (.246/.291/.299).
Bill
--
======================
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and
human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
--Albert Einstein
Bill McMahon
bmcm...@teleport.com
bmcm...@goodcatalog.com
Portland, Oregon
KeyHit
>Date: 10/15/98 8:02 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <7052ql$vof$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
>
>In article <19981014195929...@ng116.aol.com>,
> key...@aol.comnospam (KeyHit) wrote:
>> A brief aside by one of the Fox guys informed us that today Glavine was
>awarded
>> the Silver Slugger (his fourth?). Cool.
>>
>> Anyone know when the other awards are handed out?
>>
>
>Someone please explain this to me. Glavine was not even the best hitter on
>the team. I posted about a week ago the Braves pitchers batting stats and
>Maddux was the best hitter this year among the Braves. My only guess
is the
>3 extra RBIs Glavine had.
Well, that was probably it. You know about the media and RBIs. (If Juan
Gonzalez is named MVP, I'm gonna write nasty letters.)
> Maddux did however have 26 points of OPS and one
>more run and hit (and point of batting average) than Glavine. I realize that
>none of these are overwhelming advantages but I just don't see how Glavine
>batted better than Maddux. I suspect that the awards go on reputation a bit,
>sort of like Maddux with his Gold Gloves.
Yeah. Glavine never gets the Gold Glove, so why should Maddux get the Silver
Slugger? ;-)
> He usually deserves them but
>sometimes he is given the benefit of the doubt.
Don't get me started on Craig Biggio...
Billy
KeyHit
>Date: 10/15/98 9:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <705996$7hn$1...@camel0.mindspring.com>>>In article <19981014195929...@ng116.aol.com>,
>key...@aol.comnospam (KeyHit) writes:
>>> A brief aside by one of the Fox guys informed us that today Glavine was
>awarded
>>> the Silver Slugger (his fourth?). Cool.
>>>
>>> Anyone know when the other awards are handed out?
>>
>>
>>final game gave him a higher batting average than Glavine?
>
>
>Yep, Maddux overall was a better hitter than Glavine - beating him by .01 in
>BA (.240 to .239) - but
>more importanly getting on base more (.278 to .250). BUt all of this is
>moot, since there were two
>Slugger in '98 is
>true, it just goes to show that managers/coaches pay more attention to
>reputation than reality (a la
>the media):
>
>Steve Trachsel: .266/.388/.359
>Mike Hampton: .262/.348/.328
>
>One of those two *deserves* the Silver Slugger.
There was somebody, I think it was Brian Bohanon, who was really ripping it up
the last time we played the Dodgers, hitting like .320 or something. Why didn't
he win? Not enough ABs?
Billy
mw...@space.honeywell.com
Someone please explain this to me. Glavine was not even the best hitter on
the team. I posted about a week ago the Braves pitchers batting stats and
Maddux was the best hitter this year among the Braves. My only guess is the 3
extra RBIs Glavine had. Maddux did however have 26 points of OPS and one
more run and hit (and point of batting average) than Glavine. I realize that
none of these are overwhelming advantages but I just don't see how Glavine
batted better than Maddux. I suspect that the awards go on reputation a bit,
sort of like Maddux with his Gold Gloves. He usually deserves them but
sometimes he is given the benefit of the doubt.
Coral replied:
<deletia> I think the managers also vote on the gold glove awards, and
just look at how many times Maddux has won that even though both Glavine and
Smoltz have been better fielders in some of those years.
Marty Winn now responds:
<Buzzer sounds> Sorry wrong answer. If you do not know, or you have
forgotten Maddux is an astounding fielder, quite likely the best fielding
pitcher of the last 80 years. Probably ever but it is difficult to compare
pitchers who pitched 400 innings a year in the dead ball era to pitchers of
now days. Lets set some ground rules. Which is more important a player that
gets 70 outs while making 10 errors or a fielder who makes 50 outs without
any errors. If we assume equal playing time the player who made 70 outs is
more valuable than the player who made 50. The first fielder got to 30
additional balls but made errors on 10 of these occasions. It is my opinion
that even if the second player got 70 outs with 0 errors the difference
between them is minimal even though their fielding percentages are very
different. I say all of this to say range is much more important than
fielding percentage. Lets compare 2 pitchers. Pitcher A and Pitcher B.
Player CHN PO AST ERR DP FLD%
Pitcher A 1111 366 710 35 52 .968
Pitcher B 1029 349 645 35 52 .966
CHN=chances=putouts + assists, PO=putouts, AST=assists, ERR=errors,
DP=double plays, FLD%=fielding percentage= PO+AST/CHN. All things being
equal I would say that these two pitchers are pretty equal with a slight nod
to Player A. But what has been left out is the IP (innings pitched) column.
Lets add it
Player IP CHN PO AST ERR DP FLD% CHN-ERR
Pitcher A 4653.2 1111 366 710 35 52 .968 1076
Pitcher B 2849.1 1029 349 645 35 52 .966 994
Now we see player A has many more innings pitched and thus the rates are
much lower. To let the cat out of the bag Pitcher A is Smoltz + Glavine,
Pitcher B is Greg Maddux. Lets look at those rates (all per 9 innings):
Player CHN CHN-ERR PO AST DP
Maddux 3.25 3.14 1.10 2.04 0.16
Glavine 2.30 2.24 0.58 1.66 0.12
Smoltz 1.98 1.91 0.85 1.06 0.08
Glv+Sml 2.15 2.08 0.71 1.37 0.10
Maddux just kicks their buts, but don't feel bad he does that with
everyone. Kevin Brown is another excellent fielder but not on this level.
Now you can argue this pitcher is a ground ball pitcher, this one strike out,
this one fly ball. Those differences don't explain these differences. I'm
fairly certain that Maddux has set records for most years leading the league
in chances , putouts, and maybe assists (less certain). His fielding runs on
Total Baseball are awesome. Now this just shows that Maddux is a much better
fielder than 2 other good fielding pitchers. It does not answer your
assertion, "just look at how many times Maddux has won that even though both
Glavine and Smoltz have been better fielders in some of those years." I
examined every year from 1988 to 1998. The number of innings pitched was
almost always a slight edge to Maddux except for in 88, 94,and 98 when Smoltz
worked fewer innings due to injuries or rookieness. YR=year, MDX=Maddux
chances-errors, -GLV=how many less CHN-ERR Glavine has, GLV=Glavine's
CHN-ERR, etc.
Chances-errors (CHN-ERR)
YR MDX -GLV -SM GLV SM
88 73 -20 -53 53 10
89 76 -32 -21 44 55
90 94 -42 -41 52 53
91 89 -28 -40 61 49
92 94 -45 -45 49 49
93 98 -45 -46 53 52
94 58 -14 -30 44 28
95 71 -15 -41 56 30
96 108 -41 -54 67 54
97 65 -15 -05 50 60
98 95 -34 -63 61 32
So tell me Coral which of these years did you have in mind when you said
Glavine or Smoltz deserved the Gold Glove? Only once was a pitcher within 13
chances of Maddux. In 1997 Smoltz only trailed by 5 CHN-ERR but in that year
he pitched 24 more innings than Maddux which stretches the rate differential.
Sorry I'm a little defensive when someone slights Maddux's achievements.
Shining the Light,