Remember Sri Chinmoy?
xtr14...@xtra.co.nz
o m n i c o m @ b i n a r y . n e t (Luke) wrote:
> About a year ago there was an incredibly stupid thread about some New
> Age meditation freak, Sri Chinmoy, that supposedly lifted over
> 7,000-lbs. over his head with one arm. I had forgotten all about him
> until I saw a TV program where one of his "disciples" performed a
> Guiness Book World Record of glass balancing on his chin or some shit.
> Anyway, he gave all the glory to his meditation master, Sri.
>
Luke, I guess the glass balancing record was achieved by Sri Chinmoy’s
assistant, Ashrita Furman. I think Ashrita holds the record for the most
number of world records ever recorded by one person in the Guinness Book of
Records! It is certainly no easy task to break a world record, let alone a
whole bunch of them! Ashrita believes in the philosophy of “self
transcendence”, which means that we can always improve on the things we have
already achieved. I think that Ashrita has proved there must be something to
this philosophy! His world records are most certainly genuine.
Although a lot of time has been spent in investigating Sri Chinmoy’s claimed
one armed overhead 7063.75 pound lift, there are still several unanswered
questions. For example, one of Chinmoy’s disciples claimed that noted
weightlifter Bill Pearl endorsed Sri Chinmoy’s lift. In addition, Ernie
Frantz, the President of the American Powerlifting Federation, issued a
certificate which confirmed that Sri Chinmoy lifted 3081 pounds overhead with
one arm in 1987. A photo of this certificate was put on a temporary web site
when this thread was running in 1996. I have not seen any evidence to show
that Bill Pearl and Ernie Frantz do not believe this lift was genuine.
However, the claim that Dr Terry Todd endorsed the lifts seems to lack
credibility because of the comments attributed to Dr Todd in the “Outside
Magazine” articles referred to on the web site:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Aegean/5810/links.html
See also the references to the weightlifting claims at:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Aegean/5810/parents.html
If Bill Pearl and Ernie Frantz have endorsed the fact that Sri Chinmoy lifted
these extraordinary weights, there is a possibility that the claims may be
genuine. Therefore I don’t think it was an incredibly stupid thread because,
although it is unlikely that the lifts are genuine, no one has proved
conclusively that Sri Chinmoy did not genuinely lift massive weights with one
arm. However, if Bill and Ernie were to confirm that they did not endorse
these lifts, then this would place a very different complexion on things.
Others said to endorse the lifts were Henry Rappo, Heinz Vierthaler, Andy
Bostinto, Dan Lurie, Tom Carey, Frank Zane, Cliff Sawyer, Terry Todd and Jim
Smith. Incidentally, the full title of spiritual leader Sri Chinmoy is “Sri
Chinmoy Kumar Ghose”.
Regards
Bob
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Bill Roberts
> Therefore I don’t think it was an incredibly stupid thread because,
> although it is unlikely that the lifts are genuine, no one has proved
> conclusively that Sri Chinmoy did not genuinely lift massive weights
> with one arm.
No one has proved conclusively that I did not lift 3000 lb
over my head either.
-- Bill
o m n i c o m i n a r y . n e t
>In article <35cfb275.521527608@news>,
> o m n i c o m @ b i n a r y . n e t (Luke) wrote:
>> About a year ago there was an incredibly stupid thread about some New
>> Age meditation freak, Sri Chinmoy, that supposedly lifted over
>> 7,000-lbs. over his head with one arm. I had forgotten all about him
>> until I saw a TV program where one of his "disciples" performed a
>> Guiness Book World Record of glass balancing on his chin or some shit.
>> Anyway, he gave all the glory to his meditation master, Sri.
>>
>
>Luke, I guess the glass balancing record was achieved by Sri Chinmoy’s
>assistant, Ashrita Furman. I think Ashrita holds the record for the most
>number of world records ever recorded by one person in the Guinness Book of
>Records! It is certainly no easy task to break a world record, let alone a
>whole bunch of them! Ashrita believes in the philosophy of “self
>transcendence”, which means that we can always improve on the things we have
>already achieved. I think that Ashrita has proved there must be something to
>this philosophy! His world records are most certainly genuine.
>
Without question Ashrita's records are genuine. He made the assertion
that most records are based more on focus and concentration than
anything else. This point I can see. In the brief time the program
hosts talked with him, he seemed like an intelligent, lucid
individual. I just have a hard time with people that seem or
perscribe to one person in the manner he did with Sri.
>Although a lot of time has been spent in investigating Sri Chinmoy’s claimed
>one armed overhead 7063.75 pound lift, there are still several unanswered
>questions. For example, one of Chinmoy’s disciples claimed that noted
>weightlifter Bill Pearl endorsed Sri Chinmoy’s lift.
I remember the assertion that Pearl did "endorse" the lift, but I
don't remember the details of his involvement of the lift (whether he
personnally observed it, watched a tape of it, or saw a picture of the
event). As always, though, NOT being able to disprove Bill's NEGATION
or refution (lookie here, Pusbag, I'm using the double negative) of
the event also does not prove that he still (or ever) really endorses
it.
>In addition, Ernie
>Frantz, the President of the American Powerlifting Federation, issued a
>certificate which confirmed that Sri Chinmoy lifted 3081 pounds overhead with
>one arm in 1987. A photo of this certificate was put on a temporary web site
>when this thread was running in 1996. <<
I remember this piece of "evidence". It seems like a number of
powerlifting enthusiasts tried in earnest to prove the existence and
authenticity of the certificate, with no avail.
>I have not seen any evidence to show
>that Bill Pearl and Ernie Frantz do not believe this lift was genuine.
As far as I know, they have never been interviewed by a credible
source for even acknowledgement of knowledge of the lift, let alone an
endorsement.
>
>If Bill Pearl and Ernie Frantz have endorsed the fact that Sri Chinmoy lifted
>these extraordinary weights, there is a possibility that the claims may be
>genuine.
Couldn't it be possible that they were duped? Many extraordinary
events happen within the world of illusionists and magicians, but
since we aren't able to see "behind the curtain", we never are able to
acertain their authenticity. Nothing has ever been said about the
construction of the device, how it was tested, or that it was examined
by a qualified engineer. Escape artists at least lead us to believe
of a handcuff's authenticity by having a locksmith or police officer
"examine" it.
>Others said to endorse the lifts were Henry Rappo, Heinz Vierthaler, Andy
>Bostinto, Dan Lurie, Tom Carey, Frank Zane, Cliff Sawyer, Terry Todd and Jim
>Smith.
Again, there has to be more proof that either these people really have
made these endorsements and under what criteria they observed the
lifts. Not to be disrespectful to the likes of Pearl or Zane, but
what do they really represent? Sure, they may have lifted some iron
in their time, but are they really qualified observers? I would put
more credibility in The Amazing Randi (a professional charletan
debunker). He has the expertise to uncover ways that the lift could
be faked.
Much has been done and accomplished and more importantly, is provable,
via meditation. The ability to slow done one's respiration and
heartbeat to fantastically low levels by mediation masters has been
studied by many scientists for many years; creating a huge amount of
empirical data. I would venture that any number of scientists would
just love to study Chinmoy's abilities. As of yet, I haven't seen
anything. Considering Sri's need for press, I would imagine that he
would have welcomed the opportunity. That is, if he really had this
extraordinary ability.
If you look at it as a skeptic, you can see why he choose such a
fantastic feat to perform. It is virtually one of the only feats that
can be easily faked. If you would try to do the same thing with
running, there would be no way to perform on the same incredible
level.
>Incidentally, the full title of spiritual leader Sri Chinmoy is “Sri
>Chinmoy Kumar Ghose”.
All of the t-shirts I've seen with Sri's name on it have it exactly
the way I've been using it.
Luke
AOL IM: LukeSchol
"He sure does have a pretty mouth."
-- Deliverance
John Wash
In fact I saw Bill do it. So did his wife, Morgan Fairchild.
john
--
john wash; j_w...@tico.com (to email me, remove the underscore)
mfw (http://mfw.tico.com) personal (http://jwash.tico.com)
----------------------------
"It sounds very stupid." -- Bill Roberts
xtr14...@xtra.co.nz
Good points Luke. Quite a while ago, I e-mailed both Bill Pearl and Ernie
Frantz, but I did not receive any replies to my e-mails. So, if any American
journalists are reading this, (I am on the other side of the world!), here is
a great chance for a history making story. Interview Bill Pearl, Terry Todd
and Ernie Frantz and closely examine the pictures of the equipment used. In
addition, visit Sri Chinmoy at 85-45 149 St. Jamaica, NY 11432 and ask to
interview Sri Chinmoy himself. After all, this is no ordinary claim. We are
talking here about a claimed one-armed overhead lift of 7063 pounds, when
experts consider that even two or three hundred pounds lifted this way would
be quite extraordinary. What if Sri Chinmoy did actually lift 7063 pounds
with just one arm? Wouldn’t this be a huge story? But what if the whole thing
was an elaborate hoax, wouldn’t this be equally as big a story... perhaps the
greatest sports hoax of all time!!
Remember that it is Ernie Frantz’s American Powerlifting Federation (60 South
Broadway Aurora, Illinois 60505) which Chinmoy’s disciples claim issued the
certificate for the 3081 pound lift. This is not, I understand, related to the
United States Powerlifting Federation. However, it should not be a difficult
task for someone to check whether Ernie Frantz did or did not actually issue a
certificate in 1987 for Chinmoy’s claimed 3081 one armed overhead lift.
To anyone who is interested in this lift, visit:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Aegean/5810/links.html
and work through the section “Information About Sri Chinmoy’s paranormal
weightlifting feats”
There were a few “classical” postings about these lifts made by Chinmoy’s
supporters etc. See, for example the following Dejanews postings:
http://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=226399770
http://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=174986339
http://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=171184232
http://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=263216615
http://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=170104080
http://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=170109020
http://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=258608636
http://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=169951709
http://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=175948251
http://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=175616260
Luke, why did you start me off on all this again? It just bugs me that no one
has been able to properly investigate it. A TV company could make a great
documentary about this lift. Go for it while all the key players are still
alive.
o m n i c o m i n a r y . n e t
>Luke, why did you start me off on all this again? It just bugs me that no one
>has been able to properly investigate it. A TV company could make a great
>documentary about this lift. Go for it while all the key players are still
>alive.
>
As I stated in the opening post, it only occured to me after seeing
one of his disciples performing this world record attempt. Since I
think the arm lift was incredulous and entirely unfathomable, I
thought it was a good topic.
What strikes me as incredibly ironic, though, is the fact that one of
Sri's students has all of these legit world records, yet Sri himself
has none, even though his lift exceeds _every_ lift attempted by a
human being
Zoltan Apathy
interested in proving his own abilities. Because of this you will probably never
see any of the things he does investigated to everyone's satisfaction. Keep in
mind that the way sceptics claim it was done would still have him lifting one
tenth of the weight, which is still an incredible amount. (or so I've been told)
If you're looking for hard supernatural proof Sri Chinmoy is not the one to
investigate
Luke wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Aug 1998 09:31:50 GMT, xtr14...@xtra.co.nz wrote:
>
> >Luke, why did you start me off on all this again? It just bugs me that no one
> >has been able to properly investigate it. A TV company could make a great
> >documentary about this lift. Go for it while all the key players are still
> >alive.
> >
>
xtr14...@xtra.co.nz
Zoltan Apathy <apa...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
> Sri Chinmoy does not encourage people to attempt supernatural feats, and is
not
> interested in proving his own abilities. Because of this you will probably
never
> see any of the things he does investigated to everyone's satisfaction. Keep
in
> mind that the way sceptics claim it was done would still have him lifting one
> tenth of the weight, which is still an incredible amount. (or so I've been
told)
> If you're looking for hard supernatural proof Sri Chinmoy is not the one to
> investigate
You say that Sri Chinmoy is not interested in proving his own abilities. But,
in 1987, Sri Chinmoy went to a great deal of trouble to create all sorts of
evidence in support of his claim that he has lifted 7063 pounds overhead with
one arm. Sri Chinmoy has given quite a lot of publicity to his claim that he
is the greatest weightlifter by far that the world has ever known. However,
it has never been proved in a properly supervised forum that Sri Chinmoy has
in fact lifted massive weights.
You say that the way sceptics claim he carried out his lifts would still have
him lifting one-tenth of the claimed weight and that even this is an
“incredible amount”. To my knowledge, no recognised international
weightlifting authority has ever agreed that Sri Chinmoy has lifted an
incredible amount, or an amount that is anywhere near equal to that achieved
by a recognised world record holder. For example, if Sri Chinmoy had actually
lifted overhead with one arm even one-tenth of his claimed 7063 pounds
record, he would have achieved a lift of 706 pounds. However, even this would
be a gross exaggeration, because experts say that no person could lift much
more than 200 pounds in a one-armed overhead lift. So, it is quite possible
that Sri Chinmoy did not lift even one-thirty-fifth of the claimed 7063
pounds, let alone one-tenth. This is why the claim is grossly out of
proportion to anything that any human could possibly achieve, and why it
comes firmly into the “paranormal” category.
Sri Chinmoy has achieved publicity with two different types of lifts. One
involves the claim that he has lifted a large number of 100 pound dumbbells
(as many as 68) which were attached to a 15-foot bar. The other involves the
claim that he has lifted heavy objects which were placed on a platform that
was connected to a shoulder harness that Sri Chinmoy was wearing. These
objects included elephants, aircraft, one-ton pickups, and football players.
One Chinmoy disciple has already conceded that the platform lifts involved
the use of levers and that Chinmoy lifted only a relatively small fraction of
the weight on the platform.
Although no Chinmoy disciple has yet conceded that the dumbbell lifts
involved the use of levers or some other assisting device, it is more than
likely that such a device was used or that the dumbbells were imitations that
weighed very little. It is these dumbbell lifts that require further
investigation from those people who are interested in getting to the bottom
of this claimed paranormal achievement. Who knows, you may end up proving
that Sri Chinmoy is in fact the greatest weightlifter the world has ever
known and become famous yourself! However, it would be better if Sri Chinmoy
could enter a properly supervised international contest and let the world see
whether he really can lift heavy weights. For further information about Sri
Chinmoy, visit:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Aegean/5810/links.html
Deepsquatter
>You say that Sri Chinmoy is not interested in proving his own abilities. But,
>in 1987, Sri Chinmoy went to a great deal of trouble to create all sorts of
If the guy wants to PROVE he can lift some real iron let him enter a
PL meet.
o m n i c o m i n a r y . n e t
wrote:
No shit. I would like to see him remove the bar from the bench rack
of people in his own weight class. No pause, no pressing, no nothing.
Hell, JB, I would even willing to let a little light between his butt
and the bench happen -- cause, you know, I'm just that nice of a guy.
Just take it from the rack, Sri....c'mon baby...you can do it...c'mon
on now....
Tim Browne
> xtr14...@xtra.co.nz wrote:
>
> > Therefore I don’t think it was an incredibly stupid thread because,
> > although it is unlikely that the lifts are genuine, no one has proved
> > conclusively that Sri Chinmoy did not genuinely lift massive weights
> > with one arm.
>
> No one has proved conclusively that I did not lift 3000 lb
> over my head either.
Good point. As always, the burden of proof is on the person with the extra
positive belief, in this case that the lift actually happened. L8r.
--
Victoria Animart - American Prices, Canadian Currency. | This space inten-
http://www.focus-asia.com/home/animart | tionally left blank
--------------------------------------------------------+-----------------------
"Whoa... deep kiss!" - Dilgear
xtr14...@xtra.co.nz
Tim Browne <ue...@victoria.tc.ca> wrote:
> Good point. As always, the burden of proof is on the person with the extra
> positive belief, in this case that the lift actually happened. L8r.
>
When I stated that no one has proved conclusively that Sri Chinmoy did not
genuinely lift massive weights overhead with one arm, I was referring to the
fact that no one has yet been able to satisfactorily disprove the evidence
that Sri Chinmoy has presented to his disciples. I agree that the burden of
proof is entirely on the person who makes an extraordinary claim, and that
for a weightlifting claim, any world record should be achieved in competition
with others under international rules.
But if someone could prove that the evidence produced by Sri Chinmoy for his
disciples was not genuine, then this would remove any shadow of doubt from
the situation and it would prove that this was one of the greatest sports
hoaxes of all time. For example, did Ernie Frantz issue a certificate for the
3081 pound lift, and were the lifts “endorsed” by many famous weightlifters
such as Terry Todd, Bill Pearl, Henry Rappo, Heinz Vierthaler, Andy Bostinto,
Dan Lurie, Tom Carey, Frank Zane, Cliff Sawyer, and Jim Smith? See:
http://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=170109020
If the one arm overhead lifts were an illusion, why can’t it be shown how the
illusion was achieved? For example, a posting by Mark Hunter on 18 July 1996
suggested that Sri Chinmoy merely slid 303 pounds a few inches up the side of
his special rack to achieve the lifts. Apparently, Terry Todd wrote an article
for the July 1987 issue of Ironman Magazine which discussed the claim. Can
anyone find this article?
I mentioned recently in another thread, that I have found some “new” claims
of evidence about Sri Chinmoy’s paranormal weightlifting claims. In 1996, Jim
Clewley wrote a semester paper for his ultramarathon running class. This
paper is on the web at:
http://www.lehigh.edu/dmd1/public/www-data/jim.html
In his paper, Jim says that Chinmoy’s claimed lifts “have been certified by
official bodies such as the AAU and prominent individuals such as Wayne
DeMilla, Vice President of the International Federation of Body Builders.”
Jim also says that, on December 4, 1986, Sri Chinmoy did a 2,038 pound
standing calf lift, on October 19, 1986, he lifted a 3,362 pound seaplane,
and on January 30, 1987, he lifted 7063 3/4 pounds with one arm.
Can anyone give me some details about the “AAU” so we can check this claim. In
addition, does anyone know anything about Wayne De Milla and the International
Federation of Body Builders? For further information about Sri Chinmoy and his
claimed paranormal lifts, see: