So what's the best .22LR on the UK market
Pete
Within these parameters, which is the best rimfire on the UK market?
Use: vermin shooting.
Target range: any distance up to and if possible beyond 100 yards.
Accuracy: for vermin shooting, it must do the job - first time - every time.
Barrel weight, length & mounting: free on weight & length but with
moderator. Fully floating against the rest.
Loading & magazine arrangement: bolt action and semi-auto on their own
merits, minimum 10-shot magazine.
Ammunition: must be capable of cycling popular makes & weights without fuss,
but main diet will be subsonic hollow points.
Sighting: free choice of scope, mount and rings. Iron sights not required.
Serviceability: must give trouble-free service in the field and be easy to
strip down/reassemble for cleaning etc. with minimum effect on zeroing.
Factory standard or custom gun: I accept that it's possible to rebuild a
classic Ferrari around the original dipstick or in the same way to make a
silk purse out of a sow's ear. Given that accurising, fitting scope and
moderator will all constitute modifications to factory guns this will have
to be open-ended, but subject to the next, and last parameter.
Value for Money: what's the point of one costing 5 times more than another
if this isn't reflected in shooting performance? (I accept this may be
slightly controversial to those for whom the appearance of a gun is a key
factor.)
Right ladies and gents, let's be having your nominations and reasons.
Will there be a clear winner I wonder?
Pete
Tom Paris
Any .22 rimfire should do the job although I would hesitate at the Ruger
Target version. Bit heavy that one!
Underlvers are just as good as semi's
Problem with some semi's is that they tend not accept all ammunition. My
Marlin 7000 for example has no chnce with any slow ammunition such as Win
T22 but spits out blazer like there's no toomrow. I am sure it will not
work on sub sonics as there is not enough power to recycle the action as
well as throw the bullet forward.
As regards:
"Accuracy: for vermin shooting, it must do the job - first time - every
time"
Unless you got vermin guided bullets, that will NEVER happen!
Mopst common choice seems to be a ruger. Get one with synthetic
stock/stainless barrel for your outdoor work. There are plenty of after
market mags available up to, I believe, 100 round capactiy.
You wont need more than the simmons 1.5 - 5 scope unlees you want to see up
the rabbits arse.
One good thing aobut the ruger is that it has open sights too so you can use
it for other work.
I have space on my ticket for another .22 and I think I will go for a win
.22 lever action for huinting. Not least because I am left handed and dont
like getting an eyeful of blowback everytime I shoot.
Anthony Anson
from "Pete" <pete....@virgin.net> contains these words:
> Right here's one to set the hares running....
> Within these parameters, which is the best rimfire on the UK market?
> Use: vermin shooting.
> Target range: any distance up to and if possible beyond 100 yards.
> Accuracy: for vermin shooting, it must do the job - first time - every time.
My turn of the nineteenth-century Iver Johnson is the most accurate
.22 LR chambered rifle I have used - with the exception of my BSA
International - but like the International it is single shot. The
Iver Johnson cost me five pounds.
Most .22 rifles are pretty good over 100 yard with subsonic
ammunition. I have also a Browning slr, and this is almost as good,
but of course, much quicker on the next shot.
Asked the neighbour (a head keeper). He recommends the Remington
with the heavy stainless steel barrel, neoprene stock and 10? shot
rotary magazine.
Tony
mlv
>
>Within these parameters, which is the best rimfire on the UK market?
>
>Use: vermin shooting.
>
>Target range: any distance up to and if possible beyond 100 yards.
>
>Accuracy: for vermin shooting, it must do the job - first time - every
time.
>
>moderator. Fully floating against the rest.
>
>Loading & magazine arrangement: bolt action and semi-auto on their own
>merits, minimum 10-shot magazine.
>
>Ammunition: must be capable of cycling popular makes & weights without
fuss,
>but main diet will be subsonic hollow points.
>
>Sighting: free choice of scope, mount and rings. Iron sights not required.
>
>Serviceability: must give trouble-free service in the field and be easy to
>strip down/reassemble for cleaning etc. with minimum effect on zeroing.
>
>
>Value for Money.
>
Well you tend to get what you pay for and the accuracy bit will be mostly
down to you.
My favourite .22LR rifle is my German Krico bolt-action repeater, model 340S
which I obtained as a special import in 1984. This is a robust, heavy
barrelled target/sporting rifle with a ventilated walnut stock and floating
barrel. I've customised it and fitted a sling, a special lightweight
(aluminium) silencer and a wide-angle 4 x 40 telescopic sight. It really is
a superb, accurate rifle, but, as it is built to fullbore rifle proportions,
it's a bit heavy for energetic sporting use.
This Krico is also the only rifle I have ever owned which has never misfed.
My previous rifle was a BRNO bolt-action which was very crudely made. The
bolt was roughly machined and coarse in action. The inside of the receiver
looked like it had been finished off with a coarse rat-tail file. In fact
the rifle was absolute rubbish. It would often misfeed rounds (they would
either 'stovepipe' in the action or take a nosedive back down inside the
mag.).
I chose Krico because the design of their .22LR magazines consider the fact
that a .22 bullet is rimmed and therefore, when several are stacked on top
of each other, they form an arc. Krico magazines are curved to match the arc
formed by a stack of .22 bullets and the magazine also has a groove in which
the bullet rim runs. The result is a very smooth feeding action which
doesn't foul-up. I've always considered straight .22LR magazines to be a bit
of a compromise which does not consider the bullet rims. The first bullet in
a straight 10-shot mag. is offered into the breech at a much shallower angle
than the tenth. The Krico offers all ten bullets at a consistent angle. The
Krico has both 5 and 10 shot magazines.
Krico do (or did do) a good selection of .22LR rifles. I didn't particularly
like their semi-auto though and it didn't particularly like cycling
sub-sonics when a silencer was fitted. IIRC, the Krico importers were (and
might still be) Leslie Hewitt & Co. They weren't very keen to import a
one-off 340S rifle for me and I had to encourage them by contacting Krico in
Stuttgart, W Germany direct and getting them to give Leslie Hewitt a nudge.
Another excellent .22LR rifle which I own is an old (pre WWII, I think)
Walther that is similar in action to the old Beretta Beaver-tail .22LR rifle
(if you remember it). Basically the rifle is a lightweight combination
straight blow-back semi-auto/single-shot bolt-action. If the bolt handle (a
small ball handle on the Walther, a flat 'beaver-tail' handle on the Beretta
version) is left up, then the rifle performs as a standard semi-auto. If the
bolt handle is locked down after each shot, then the rifle operates as a
standard bolt-action repeater.
The rifle is a typical German design where everything is beautifully
machined and fitted together. The major parts of the mechanism field strip
with just the push of a button at the rear of the action. Unfortunately
there do not seem to be any spares available, so I don't use the rifle much
in case I break something. I've only got one 5-shot mag. for it anyway.
There is no facility as standard for fitting telescopic sights on this rifle
(or the Beretta version).
The 'best' .22LR on the UK market will be in the eye of the beholder. What
suits one person may well not suit another. I'm 6' 3"/14.5 stone, so I like
my large Krico 340S. Many .22LR rifles feel too small; like toys.
The BRNO bolt action (imported by Edgar brothers, IIRC) used to be a very
well made medium-weight rifle. An early version should be good quality. The
rifles being shipped in the late 70's/early 80's (when I purchased mine)
were extremely poor quality. I haven't bothered to look at them since, so I
don't know if they have improved any of late, or even if they're still
available.
The Ruger 10/22 seems to get good press and I quite fancy a bull-barrelled,
stainless steel version. However, I'll reserve judgement until I've fondled
and fired one :-)
--
Mike
Please remove 'SAFETYCATCH' from E-mail address before firing off your reply
Jonathan Spencer
<pete....@virgin.net> made me sit up when he said:
>Within these parameters, which is the best rimfire on the UK market?
>
>Use: vermin shooting.
>
>Target range: any distance up to and if possible beyond 100 yards.
From a horizontal barrel, the bullet drops 30 inches over 125 yards but
only 18 inches at 100 yards. How well can you estimate range?
If you zero your rifle for 100 yards, you'll be 4 inches high at 50
yards and 6 inches low at 125 yards.
In short, the .22LR simply cannot meet your first criterion.
You're delivering a mere 72 ft-lbs at 125 yards (plenty for a rabbit -
if you can hit his brain of course).
>Accuracy: for vermin shooting, it must do the job - first time - every time.
Which vermin?
>Barrel weight, length & mounting: free on weight & length but with
>moderator. Fully floating against the rest.
sound moderator? So you're using subsonic ammo?
>Loading & magazine arrangement: bolt action and semi-auto on their own
>merits, minimum 10-shot magazine.
I would avoid semi-autos. The bolt is generally more accurate.
Contrary to what others are recommending, I would not touch a 10-22 with
a barge pole. The SAKO Finnfire is a good accurate rifle at a good
price.
>Ammunition: must be capable of cycling popular makes & weights without fuss,
>but main diet will be subsonic hollow points.
You'll find that Eley's HP Xtra are extremely good.
>Sighting: free choice of scope, mount and rings. Iron sights not required.
Leupold M8-6x42
>Value for Money: what's the point of one costing 5 times more than another
>if this isn't reflected in shooting performance? (I accept this may be
>slightly controversial to those for whom the appearance of a gun is a key
>factor.)
The Brno Model 452-2E (Edgar Bros) is a decent rifle for its money, and
you can get a 10 round magazine. But it has a creepy trigger and the
stock is designed for use with iron sights. The 10-rnd magazines tend
to jam if you use more than 7 rounds.
The SAKO Finnfire is a much better rifle all round. It shoots more
accurately, has an excellent trigger, but only a 5-round magazine. The
SAKO aluminium sound moderator is preferable to the Parker-Hale steel
one.
--Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty
is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin, 1759
j...@salvage.demon.co.uk (preferred) jona...@borer.demon.co.uk
==================================================================
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tel: + 44 191 386 6107 fax: + 44 191 383 0686
visit our web site at http://www.borer.demon.co.uk
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whinlatter
Value for money was my main criteria when choosing a new .22 recently. The BRNO
"style" won hands down. Nice plastic stock (if that's not an oxymoron)
nickel-plated finish and very nicely weighted even with a sound moderator
fitted.
There are better rifles, there are cheaper rifles but my .22 is a working tool
not a fashion statement and as such it has to be the best. IMHO of course.
Bill Wheeler
Pete wrote:
> Right here's one to set the hares running....
>
Anthony Anson
from whinlatter <whinl...@netscapeonline.co.uk> contains these words:
> What can I add?
> Value for money was my main criteria when choosing a new .22 recently. The BRNO
> "style" won hands down. Nice plastic stock (if that's not an oxymoron)
> nickel-plated finish and very nicely weighted even with a sound moderator
> fitted.
> There are better rifles, there are cheaper rifles but my .22 is a working tool
> not a fashion statement and as such it has to be the best. IMHO of course.
> Bill Wheeler
Plastic (decent plastic, anyway) stocks are an advantage in that
they do not absorb moisture and stress the mountings to the detriment
of consistency. (I have to admit this, however much I love a
well-made wooden stock.)
Tony
mlv
>
><snip>
>
> The Brno Model 452-2E (Edgar Bros) is
> a decent rifle for its money, and
> you can get a 10 round magazine.
> But it has a creepy trigger and the
> stock is designed for use with iron sights.
> The 10-rnd magazines tend to jam if
> you use more than 7 rounds.
>
Interesting comments. How widely documented is this BRNO mis-feed/jamming
problem?
My BRNO 10-shot magazines were always jamming and I complained at some
length to Edgar Brothers on several occasions. They insisted that they had
never heard of the problem. Eventually I returned the rifle + mags to them
for 'extensive testing' at their works.
Edgar Bros. returned the rifle a couple of weeks later basically saying I
was talking rubbish and that the rifle was faultless. They inferred how
lucky I was to own such a fine example of Czechoslovakian engineering!
I knew the rifle was crap, so I got rid of it and bought the Krico 340S.
Have BRNO improved their manufacturing quality over the past few years, not
that it could have got much worse than the poorly made .22LR rifle I ended
up with?
BTW, why do you not rate the Ruger 10/22?
Pete
"Jonathan Spencer" <snipped>
>
> In short, the .22LR simply cannot meet your first criterion.
Oh come, come now! You seem to be suggesting that the range/sighting
tolerances involved at ranges out to 100 yards and a bit more are much more
restrictive than I had naively been operating with. I'm currently zeroed at
100 yards and do kill rabbits at any range down to 20 yards. By the end of
this busy wabbiting season, I'll know how much drop to give those too.
> You're delivering a mere 72 ft-lbs at 125 yards (plenty for a rabbit -
> if you can hit his brain of course).
I confess to not taking very many at that range, by preference and I usually
aim at the chest.
> Which vermin?
Wabbits, magpies, jays, woodies and if the range and conditions are right,
toby. Anything else troubling the keeper.
> sound moderator? So you're using subsonic ammo?
Of course. If I wanted to scare the wabbits underground I'd be making more
noise with expediters or the like / 12 bore / centrefire (and no Suffolk
don't grant moderators on centrefires - pish).
>
> You'll find that Eley's HP Xtra are extremely good.
Thanks, I'll give these a try.
> Leupold M8-6x42
You're going for the best then, but what about the VFM factor?
Pete
Bert Hyman
<keeCCSAB...@salvage.demon.co.uk>:
>The Brno Model 452-2E (Edgar Bros) is a decent rifle for its money,
>and you can get a 10 round magazine. But it has a creepy trigger and
>the stock is designed for use with iron sights. The 10-rnd magazines
>tend to jam if you use more than 7 rounds.
>
Europe? It's manufactured by Ceska Zbrojovka in the Czech Republic,
and is sold in the US under the "CZ" brand name.
Before I bought my CZ ZKM-452-2E "Lux" a couple of years ago I had a
short conversation with the US importer (they had no dealer network
established yet) who told me that after the break up of Czechoslovakia,
the Czech arms-making conglomerate was also broken up and some other
company ended up with rights to the "Brno" name.
Was he confused? I know that ->I<- am :-).
--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | be...@visi.com
J.R.Smithson
typed
>
>>Loading & magazine arrangement: bolt action and semi-auto on their own
>>merits, minimum 10-shot magazine.
>
>I would avoid semi-autos. The bolt is generally more accurate.
By which I take it you mean more consistent (and so more accurate).
>Contrary to what others are recommending, I would not touch a 10-22 with
>a barge pole. The SAKO Finnfire is a good accurate rifle at a good
>price.
Agreed, I bought one four years ago (after owning a BRNO) with Sako
mounts (1st class), and Sako moderator for £400. With the strength of
the pound, you might find them around the same price today.
The Sako has a fully floating barrel, a full sized walnut stock, a
decent crisp trigger (one stage only, but adjustable), and a proper
safety catch that blocks the bolt, hammer and trigger, not just a
trigger block.
You should be able to look at one in any Beretta dealers, they are both
imported by Gunmark. If you want a cheaper rifle look at the Anshutz
range (IIRC also available left-handed).
>
>>Ammunition: must be capable of cycling popular makes & weights without fuss,
>>but main diet will be subsonic hollow points.
>
>You'll find that Eley's HP Xtra are extremely good.
Also try CCI for accuracy, I liked the Winchester super X for expansion
(or splat factor), but they are slightly longer, and can cause feed
problems.
>
>>Sighting: free choice of scope, mount and rings. Iron sights not required.
>
>Leupold M8-6x42
Ouch, I would have thought that's a bit of an overkill for a 22lr, but I
suppose you only need to buy one. I use a Tasco WC+ 4x44, which I bought
on special offer a few months ago for £50, and I'm happy with it. I
would recommend a 4or6x 40, and that you avoid variable mag scopes
unless you are willing to spend £150+, I had a Nikko Sterling Gold
Crown, that would shift zero an inch and a half at 60 yards by dialling
up the magnification.
>
>>Value for Money: what's the point of one costing 5 times more than another
>>if this isn't reflected in shooting performance? (I accept this may be
>>slightly controversial to those for whom the appearance of a gun is a key
>>factor.)
>
>The Brno Model 452-2E (Edgar Bros) is a decent rifle for its money, and
>you can get a 10 round magazine. But it has a creepy trigger and the
>stock is designed for use with iron sights. The 10-rnd magazines tend
>to jam if you use more than 7 rounds.
>
>The SAKO Finnfire is a much better rifle all round. It shoots more
>accurately, has an excellent trigger, but only a 5-round magazine.
10 round Sako magazines are available, but my friendly local gun shop
owner always advises against them because of feed problems. Still if
anyone from Gunmark or Sako reads these groups, a 6 or 7 shot mag would
be nice, just to aid location and changing in the dark :o)
--
J.R.Smithson
Jonathan Spencer
CH.uk> made me sit up when he said:
>Interesting comments. How widely documented is this BRNO mis-feed/jamming
>problem?
I've no idea. I bought two mags and both jammed. The problem lies with
the fact that the .22LR cartridge is a rimmed cartridge. One rim jumps
in front of the cartridge above it, preventing it from being stripped
off the top of the mag.
>My BRNO 10-shot magazines were always jamming and I complained at some
>length to Edgar Brothers on several occasions.
Well, Edgar Bros do have a good reputation and a good ethic in my
experience.
>Edgar Bros. returned the rifle a couple of weeks later basically saying I
>was talking rubbish and that the rifle was faultless. They inferred how
>lucky I was to own such a fine example of Czechoslovakian engineering!
The Brno is a fine rifle, especially for the price, but it isn't perfect
and it isn't the very best available. But IMO you won't get better for
less.
>BTW, why do you not rate the Ruger 10/22?
Because it shoots like a bag of nails. Yes, I'm judging the entire race
of a single experience and I shouldn't. But in general, I have yet to
meet a *factory standard* 10/22 that doesn't have a ridiculously heavy
trigger (7 *pounds*), isn't fussy about sub-sonic ammunition, and is
other than grossly inaccurate (1-1/2 to 3 inch groups at 50 yards). On
the plus side, it is lightweight and a 'handy' rifle. It's also
expensive for what it is. You couldn't give me one.
Jonathan Spencer
<pete....@virgin.net> made me sit up when he said:
>
>"Jonathan Spencer" <snipped>
>>
>> In short, the .22LR simply cannot meet your first criterion.
>
>Oh come, come now! You seem to be suggesting that the range/sighting
>tolerances involved at ranges out to 100 yards and a bit more are much more
>restrictive than I had naively been operating with. I'm currently zeroed at
>100 yards and do kill rabbits at any range down to 20 yards. By the end of
>this busy wabbiting season, I'll know how much drop to give those too.
How many do you wound and lose, or miss completely? I'd suggest that a
.22 Hornet is more suited to your task.
>I confess to not taking very many at that range, by preference and I usually
>aim at the chest.
Ah, well there we differ. I am a precision man who wants them dead on
the spot and doesn't want the meat damaged. Head shots only for me.
>> Leupold M8-6x42
>
>You're going for the best then, but what about the VFM factor?
That is VFM. The *best* scopes are from Austria & Germany, and they
cost a lot more than Leupold (I have a Kahles 2-9x42 which cost circa
UKP500). Leupold is exceptionally good VFM. You can buy them direct
from the States for about US$230 (try http://www.natchezss.com). At
$1.7 to the pound (this morning's Times), that *is* VFM at UKP130. If
you want a cheaper scope, then you must settle for an inferior scope.
The VFM factor may be the same, you will have paid less and you will
have bought less.
Jonathan Spencer
<be...@visi.com> made me sit up when he said:
>>The Brno Model 452-2E (Edgar Bros) is a decent rifle for its money,
>Is that rifle actually sold under the "Brno" brand name in the UK and
>Europe? It's manufactured by Ceska Zbrojovka in the Czech Republic,
>and is sold in the US under the "CZ" brand name.
I'm showing my age: I pre-date 1989 and so my rifle was made in
Czechoslovakia, which no longer exists. The CZ is the same rifle, made
in what is now the Czech republic.
mlv
>
>I've no idea. I bought two mags and both jammed. The problem lies with
>the fact that the .22LR cartridge is a rimmed cartridge. One rim jumps
>in front of the cartridge above it, preventing it from being stripped
>off the top of the mag.
>
Exactly the problem I had. The top bullet would then pivot about its trapped
rim, take a nose-dive down inside the magazine and jam everything up. It was
always happening at inconvenient times with my 10-shot magazines and it put
me right off BRNO products.
>
>Well, Edgar Bros do have a good reputation and a
> good ethic in my experience.
>
Except IME, Edgar Bros. were unwilling to accept that there were any feed
problems with BRNO 10-shot .22LR magazines.
Did they sort your magazines out for you, or do you have to live with the
problem? Maybe you did what I did - moved the rifle on and bought a decent
one that didn't misfeed? As I was experiencing this jamming problem in the
late 70's/early 80's, it's possible that BRNO have now had sufficient time
to address the problem. Maybe the magazines have been redesigned.
>
>The Brno is a fine rifle, especially for the price, but it isn't perfect
>and it isn't the very best available. But IMO you won't get better for
>less.
>
Well, to take example from your 10/22 comments and criticise only on the
experience of owning one BRNO .22LR rifle.........
On the face of it the BRNO appeared to be a good solid medium-weight
bolt-action rifle. In reality the one I was sold (new) was extremely poorly
made. The machining was crude and agricultural. The action was coarse and
rough. The blueing salts had not been thoroughly flushed and there was
corrosion apparent at the various seams (i.e barrel to receiver joint,
foresight block to barrel joint, etc.). The silencer thread (possibly put on
in this country) looked like it had been done with a hand-die rather than on
a lathe. All in all a very disappointing purchase.
IMO, a rifle that will not feed reliably is no use at all. The shooter can
have no confidence in it and Sod's Law will ensure that it always jams at
the most inopportune moments.
I would add that the gunshop where I purchased my new BRNO rifle had a much
earlier version of the rifle in for repair. By comparison with my rifle,
this older rifle was very well finished and the bolt-action was as slick and
smooth as you could wish for. Maybe the rifles are that good again now - I
don't know.
Either way, I wouldn't want to own a rifle, however well made, if it's
magazines were always jamming at inconvenient moments.
Wilam
rimfire and would like to know what group sizes you are getting. Say at
50metres.
J.R.Smithson <j...@sandspalincs.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:FQQfUDAd...@sandspalincs.demon.co.uk...
Gerard
wrote:
>You say the Sako is an accurate rifle. I am currently in the market for a
>rimfire and would like to know what group sizes you are getting. Say at
>50metres.
I have had a Sako Finfire Varmint .22LR for over a year now and think
it's a good rifle. It has a heavy bull barrel and a sweet trigger. I
currently have a Simmons 4-12x40 Pro Air scope mounted (with the
excellent Sako mounts), which does the job and does not add no much
weight. Never fitted a moderator and doubt if I will as I always use
HV ammo.
I have it zeroed at 70 yards, which allows shot from 20 to 100 yards
with not to much hold under or over.
Using RWS HV hollow point ammo I get 1/4 inch groups at 50 yards and
1/2 groups at 100 yards. This is on a still and windless day and when
I'm on form. Normally have no trouble getting all shots inside the
inch at 100 yards. I have yet to find a brand of ammo this rifle does
not like.
I liked the rifle so much, I bought it's big brother, the model 75
Varmint in .222 Rem.
Only down side is it's a bit on the heavy side.
GBuckenham
haven't had any problems with mine.
I have a mod2-E-H (1991). I have had the barrel cut down and recrowned to 18
1/2" to accomodate the silencer better, as a 24" barrel was too long when the
silencer was on.
I only use a 5 shot magazine and have had NO feed problems at all.
I use Win subs and can get a 1" group @ 50 yds.I have a Tasco 4 x 40 Silver
Antler scope
I consider this an accurate rifle and have shot out to 190 yds with it.
Gary
sparky
wrote:
>Right here's one to set the hares running....
>
>Within these parameters, which is the best rimfire on the UK market?
>
>Use: vermin shooting.
>
>Target range: any distance up to and if possible beyond 100 yards.
>
>Accuracy: for vermin shooting, it must do the job - first time - every time.
>
>Barrel weight, length & mounting: free on weight & length but with
>moderator. Fully floating against the rest.
>
>Loading & magazine arrangement: bolt action and semi-auto on their own
>merits, minimum 10-shot magazine.
>
hi
i have tried 3 .22lr rifles and the best i used yet and do a lot of
vermin control is the sako heavy barrel finfire varmint
accuracy comes as standard
cheers
trigger
Mick Whittingham
CH.uk> writes
>A bolt-upright Jonathan Spencer wrote:
>>
>>I've no idea. I bought two mags and both jammed. The problem lies with
>>the fact that the .22LR cartridge is a rimmed cartridge. One rim jumps
>>in front of the cartridge above it, preventing it from being stripped
>>off the top of the mag.
>>
>
>Exactly the problem I had. The top bullet would then pivot about its trapped
>rim, take a nose-dive down inside the magazine and jam everything up. It was
>always happening at inconvenient times with my 10-shot magazines and it put
>me right off BRNO products.
>
When looking for my last 22LR I purchased ?10? Years ago, I was looking
for a bolt action for sub sonics with a silencer for rabbits and the
occasional fox. I ended up with a BRNO. This was after lots of advice
from local farmers etc. It was also one of the cheapest on the market
commensurate with a build quality that was better than others in the
same price range. (I was selective in the shop with the shot owners
approval.)
The additional advice I was given by the gun shop I purchased it from
was:
1/ Don't bother with the 10 shot magazine it is too short to include
sensible spring compression and will jam on the last few rounds. Anyway
do you need 10 shots in one mag, have two 5 shot mags and take better
aim!
2/ The 10 shot mag will work with S&B rounds but the sub sonic version
of S&B has a variation in powder load that will have 30% going super
sonic. (No good for my use, I tried them and it's true).
3/ Try a range of manufacturers for e.g. sub sonic bullets, and when you
get close groups stick with that type. Because of the length of barrel
(longer than most) and the rate of turn of the riffling you need to get
the right bullet. It is designed for Czechoslovakian loads.
I don't know how scientific the advice was but following it has given me
good results with Winchester sub sonics.
--
Best regards
Mick Whittingham
Pete
What are you hitting? What ammo? How much drop?
Pete, curious
Jonathan Spencer
>A bolt-upright Jonathan Spencer wrote:
:-)
>Exactly the problem I had. The top bullet would then pivot about its trapped
>rim, take a nose-dive down inside the magazine and jam everything up.
I found that this was invariably the case if loaded with more than 7
rounds. I stopped using them, partly because I had two 5-round mags and
also because I don't shoot anything like the numbers of rabbits I was
then shooting (in excess of 100 per night, most weekends).
>>Well, Edgar Bros do have a good reputation and a
>> good ethic in my experience.
>Did they sort your magazines out for you, or do you have to live with the
>problem?
I never sent them back. I was speaking in a more general sense from my
experiences with dealers and people in the trade/industry.
>Maybe you did what I did - moved the rifle on and bought a decent
>one that didn't misfeed?
Well, I did buy a Sako Finnfire but I still have my Brno. The Sako
finish is better, but more effort was put into it and it costs approx 2
x the price of the Brno.
>As I was experiencing this jamming problem in the
>late 70's/early 80's, it's possible that BRNO have now had sufficient time
>to address the problem. Maybe the magazines have been redesigned.
I bought mine in 1986 or 87 and I've no complaints about the finish of
the rifle. It's a perfectly good rifle and a good price. With the
5-round mags, no problems whatsoever. Mine accounted for around four
THOUSAND rabbits over approximately ten years. I don't recall it ever
jamming with the 5-round mags. Recently, the ejector has started to
fail to always eject, and looking at the extractors it is clear that
there is some where. I need to find the time to strip it down and
determine what needs replacing.
>On the face of it the BRNO appeared to be a good solid medium-weight
>bolt-action rifle. In reality the one I was sold (new) was extremely poorly
>made. The machining was crude and agricultural. The action was coarse and
>rough. The blueing salts had not been thoroughly flushed and there was
>corrosion apparent at the various seams (i.e barrel to receiver joint,
>foresight block to barrel joint, etc.).
You obviously got a substandard gun, which isn't acceptable. I have
kept my Brno, my brother has one, and a friend has a third. We're all
happy with them (excepting the mags).
>IMO, a rifle that will not feed reliably is no use at all. The shooter can
>have no confidence in it and Sod's Law will ensure that it always jams at
>the most inopportune moments.
as ever
>I would add that the gunshop where I purchased my new BRNO rifle had a much
>earlier version of the rifle in for repair. By comparison with my rifle,
>this older rifle was very well finished and the bolt-action was as slick and
>smooth as you could wish for. Maybe the rifles are that good again now - I
>don't know.
Sounds like either you got a solitary lemon, or there was a dip in their
quality control.
Jonathan Spencer
<wilam....@freeuk.com> made me sit up when he said:
>You say the Sako is an accurate rifle. I am currently in the market for a
>rimfire and would like to know what group sizes you are getting. Say at
>50metres.
I don't have any targets in front of me as I type, so this is from
memory. With my Brno, a 1" disc would normally cover the holes made by
10 shots at 50 yards. Sometimes it would be better, sometimes a bit
worse. Let's call that a 1" - .224" = 0.77" group would be fairly
typical. The Sako does significantly better. The Sako shoots 0.5"
groups. Tests were undertaken using Eley Extra Hollow Point subsonic
ammo and sound moderator fitted. Similar results are obtained with
other brands of ammo, but I've found Eley to be best for me.
At 25 yards on an indoor range, lying prone but unsupported, the Sako
shoots groups that are a tight hole approximately 0.25" and the Brno
shoots groups approximately 0.5" plus. In comparison, the serious
target shooters using their Anschutz target rifles are able to put ten
rounds into a hole that is barely over 0.22".
GBuckenham
>
>What are you hitting? What ammo? How much drop?
Yes I did say 190 yards, the drop was about 54", I knew the range to be just
under 200yds.
I use Winchester subsonics (40 grn HP)
That shot was taken without a silencer on a rabbit, I have taken others at
150yds also.
Gary
J.R.Smithson
>You say the Sako is an accurate rifle. I am currently in the market for a
>rimfire and would like to know what group sizes you are getting. Say at
>50metres.
To be honest I've never measured groups. To zero I use 30mm stickers on
a patch of cardboard, and at 50 yards the groups are well inside using
CCI subs, and lately Eley Xtra subs.
You've got me thinking now, I'll have to get a couple of boxes of Tenex
at the weekend to see what it will group at.
While we're talking rimfires, I've just been giving the moderator a good
decoke. But how often do people here clean their barrel? I was always
told to never clean a rimfire barrel (but I still do occasionally), Is
this just another shooting myth? or good sense?
--
John Smithson
Kavall
at 50yards? This is being a little conservative on the groups. They run
about $800. Though you can pay alot more.
"GBuckenham" <gbuck...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000404180116...@ng-bh1.aol.com...
mlv
>
>> I wrote:
>>
>> Did they (Edgar Bros.) sort your (BRNO 10-shot) magazines
>> out for you, or do you have to live with the problem?
>>
>
> I never sent them back.
>
Pity. The languid British are renown for their 'put up and shut up'
disposition.
If everyone reported that their 10-shot magazines were misfeeding and sent
them back, then Edgar Bros. would have to acknowledge the problem and take
some action. Maybe BRNO would have redesigned the magazines by now so that
they actually attain their design objective.
The point is, BRNO are selling a *10-shot* magazine and the customer has
every right to expect it to be just that - a true 10-shot magazine that
functions as such and doesn't foul up. Otherwise they should advertise it
for what it is, a 7-shot magazine not worth buying.
Consumer Power - we should use it (IMO) ! :-)
Bert Hyman
<8cd8c5$m78$1...@soap.pipex.net>:
> ...As I was experiencing this jamming
>problem in the late 70's/early 80's, it's possible that BRNO have now
>had sufficient time to address the problem. Maybe the magazines have
>been redesigned.
>
When I bought by CZ ZKM-452-2E Lux from CZ-USA a few years ago, I was
warned against buying the 10-round magazines because of feeding
problems.
So, they know about the problem (at least the US importer does) and
they haven't fixed it (or so the US importer believes).
Of course, feeding problems in magazine fed semi-automatic .22s isn't
new. High Standard (a US manufacturer of [supposedly] competition-grade
.22 pistols) has an entire Web page devoted to instructions for fixing
their magazines to get them to work :-).