Racketball goggles without lens?
James N. Finley
Does anyone know where to find the old type of racquetball goggles
without glass? I left mine lying around and someone got them.
JordanISRA
The manufactures stop making lensless eyeguards about ten years ago, too many
lawsuits from injuries.
These were once available ONLY because of handball players. At the time they
were the only protective option.
With the advent of poly-plastics and lower prices, the courts ruled against
lensless eyeguards as misleading the public of the protection they provided,
compared to lensed eyeguards.
Even today, all eyeguards come with a warning that they can’t prevent all
injuries.
Wearing lensless glasses is almost the same as not wearing any glasses at all.
Most injuries are not from contact with the ball to the eye, but the pressure
the ball has on impact (same as getting hit in the ear) to the eye. Lensless
eyeguards allow the air pressure to push the eye back - then suddenly pull as
the ball leaves the face. This “whip-lash” effect is the real danger.
Forget those lame excuses about “fogging” and “I can’t see” when wearing lensed
eyeguards, millions use these and THOUSANDS like you (and me) have adapted in a
matter of two to three weeks.
Racquetball IS JUST A GAME, your eyes are not.
Good luck,
Jordan
Otto Dietrich
I threw them away!!
Or at least I would like to have!
Seriously, you have gotten the right scoop. Lensless eyewear is unsafe!!!
Moreover, eyeguards that DON'T meet ASTM standard F803.94 or the CSM
Canadian standard, in some instances, could cause even more eye damage than
not wearing any.
The risk of eye injury is far too great to play without lensed eyewear that
the manufacturer has certified as meeting or exceeding that standard.
Just one other comment about this thread. There was one reference to
wearing "Oakley type eyewear." For the record, Oakley eyewear has NO
documentation on file with the USRA showing that any of its eyewear meets
either of those standards or is safe for use in racquetball.
Otto Dietrich
National Rules Commissioner
U.S. Racquetball Association
James N. Finley wrote in message ...
scott
I still see mostly older guys....60's and 70's wearing them......A couple of
years ago, I ran a tournament and someone had them on I told them they could
nnot wear them...after he threw a hissy fit he finally put on another pair.
I agree they are very unsafe!!!!
scott grunin
Carlos Hill
Otto Dietrich wrote:
> Moreover, eyeguards that DON'T meet ASTM standard F803.94 or the CSM
> Canadian standard, in some instances, could cause even more eye damage than
> not wearing any.
>
> The risk of eye injury is far too great to play without lensed eyewear that
> the manufacturer has certified as meeting or exceeding that standard.
>
> Just one other comment about this thread. There was one reference to
> wearing "Oakley type eyewear." For the record, Oakley eyewear has NO
> documentation on file with the USRA showing that any of its eyewear meets
> either of those standards or is safe for use in racquetball.
>
> Otto Dietrich
> National Rules Commissioner
> U.S. Racquetball Association
>
> James N. Finley wrote in message ...
> >Does anyone know where to find the old type of racquetball goggles
> >without glass? I left mine lying around and someone got them.
> >
Why can't adults be allowed to choose the type of eyewear they want to
use? I am not advocating that lenseless eyewear or glass lenses be
allowed. The reason I throw this out is because (I know Otto will be on
my case about this) the pair I prefer are not approved, although they do
have polycarbonate lenses and I wear a strap to keep them secure. I
don't know why a strap is not required for approved eyewear as some of
the ones on the market now, the "approved" Oakley looking type, just
clip to the face and I don't see much protection there at all. As a
matter of fact, recently I've been seeing the eyewear get knocked of by
casual opponent contact. Because of my unapproved eyewear, I once got a
tecnical in a hotly contested match because my oppenent brought this to
the attention of the referee. I've tried several of the approved
eyewear on the market and none come close to the comfort of the ones I
like and the coating on the lenses of the approved ones become
bothersome after awhile. I don't have this problem with the pair I like
bacause the lenses are not coated and the adequate ventilation takes
care of the fog problem. I've been hit a couple of times and these
passed my inspection as far as providing the protection my eyes deserve.
Note: I started out wearing the approved pair at our state singles
tournament this past weekend and quickly found myself behind in the
first match because of the fogging and sweat build up due to poor
vwntilation. Once I switched, I went on to win my division as no one
really bothered to make it an issue, fortunately.
jeff
In article
<F27344FFC375CA51.74B3A260...@library-proxy.airnews.ne
t>, "James N. Finley" <jfi...@airmail.net> wrote:
> Does anyone know where to find the old type of racquetball goggles
> without glass? I left mine lying around and someone got them.
I've been saving a few answers for this question. Don't kid yourself.
Lenseless eyewear is like wearing no eyewear.
Jeff
===
Glen Loucks <Glen_...@bc.sympatico.ca> wrote on Nov 13/97:
I've been playing for about 15 years, give or take a couple, and
have memories of a couple of incidents.
First was in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada where I began and at this
point was a D/C player. We were playing doubles and our opponents
were serving. The server hit a jam serve to me on the left side
return and I scrambled to get my racquet on it, thus hitting an
uncontrolled shot straight into the eye of the server's partner.
His eye was saturated in blood as we took him directly to the
hospital. We all thought he was wearing his goggles at the time,
but he decided to wear them on his forehead as they 'bothered his
vision'.
After five days in the hospital with both eyes bandaged, he was
released with a slight permanent impairment to his eye.
Another incident was in Victoria, B.C. when I was playing doubles
again and everybody had their eye protection on, (I won't play
anyone without it now), and I got hit buy a high 3 wall kill shot,
except the ball flattened out and touched my eye through the slit
stye goggles that were approved at the time. I thought I lost my
eye it hurt so much. Luckily within minutes my vision cleared up
and was 100%.
I am like an old nag now whenever I see anyone without goggles and
told some of my level A opponents that I won't play them if they are
not wearing eye protection.
To this day we have lots of new players interested in the game and
the club management doesn't enforce the usage of eye protection.
Does anyone know where I can get a poster, real or not, of a damaged
eye that I can post? I think it will make them think twice.
--
Jeff Anthony
Raquetball FAQ - http://www.nas.net/~hinder/asr_faq/index.html
*Remove NOSPAM from address*
jeff
In article
<F27344FFC375CA51.74B3A260...@library-proxy.airnews.ne
t>, "James N. Finley" <jfi...@airmail.net> wrote:
> Does anyone know where to find the old type of racquetball goggles
> without glass? I left mine lying around and someone got them.
===
Jade F. Witte <ja...@rdoor.com> wrote on Nov 13/97:
I know of a guy that got hit in the eye with a racqetball with
such incredible force it sucked his eye out. No joke. The ball was
hit so hard that it compressed around the bone structure of his eye
socket which produced a vacuum and the rest is history. Pretty
serious stuff. I bought some Ektelon glasses when they first came
out years ago. At first it seemed like a waist of money. After
all, what are the odds of it happening to me? It only happens to
other people, right? Think again!
I was on the court with an incredible tennis player who had only
stepped onto a racquetball court a few times. He wanted to prove
that he could kick my butt in racquetball, too. We were in the
middle of a rally when it looked like he was going to hit the ball
off of the back wall. Then, all of a sudden, he did a 180, spun
around to hit it off the front wall instead and plastered an
overhead smash right at my face. I shouldn't have been looking
directly at him anyway without my racquet up as a screen, but oh
well...live and learn. The ball hit me in my glasses squarely in
one eye. It hit so squarely and with such force that the frame left
a red circular impression on my face around by eye for 3 days. My
eye watered a bit at the time but it was fine and we continued to
play after a brief time out and a bunch of apologies. ;-) Had I not
been wearing protective glasses, I feel confident that I would have
lost my eye. These glasses are well worth the money! Also, don't
settle for those cheep goggles with just plastic rims and no lenses.
They aren't legal in tournaments and the reason they aren't legal is
because they stink! ;-) Had I been wearing those instead of the
Ekleton glasses, then I could have lost or at least severely damaged
my eye as well.
Racquetball is a fairly safe sport if you play smart and are
courteous to your opponents. But, just in case there is some fluke
incident, it's a good idea to have your bases covered! ;-) Have fun!
It's an awesome sport! :-)
JordanISRA
>Why can't adults be allowed to choose the type of eyewear they want to
>use?
> the pair I prefer are not approved, although they do
>have polycarbonate lenses and I wear a strap to keep them secure.
> I've tried several of the approved
>eyewear on the market and none come close to the comfort of the ones I
>like
You said you have already been given a technical during a tournament wearing
unapproved eyewear, so you KNOW what is right and wrong.
On many unapproved eyewear, it is not the lenses, but the frames, or side pads,
that are the problem. That is why players with prescription glasses can not use
metal frames.
The racquet can do more damage to the head with these type of frames on than it
would without the unapproved frames. Insurance is the big reason.
Would you let an opponent play WITHOUT their hand in the racquet wrist-thong
because it was more comfortable for them?
This is a rule that PREVENTS injury, just like the receiving line is for the
receiver and not stepping out of the service box too soon for the server.
Racquetball is just a game. It’s not worth the risk you are taking.
Give yourself time to adjust to the other eyeguards. If I could do it, so can
you.
Good luck,
Jordan
Carlos Hill
JordanISRA wrote:
>
> On many unapproved eyewear, it is not the lenses, but the frames, or side pads,
> that are the problem. That is why players with prescription glasses can not use
> metal frames.
***My eyewear does not have a frame. As amatter of fact. they are so
similar to the ones that are approved, ***unless you are really out to
get technical, there is no difference in appearance.
> Would you let an opponent play WITHOUT their hand in the racquet wrist-thong
> because it was more comfortable for them?
>
> This is a rule that PREVENTS injury, just like the receiving line is for the
> receiver and not stepping out of the service box too soon for the server.
***We let an opponent play in running shoes where the risk of foot
injury is quite high. Should there be an ***approval for shoes also?
>
> Racquetball is just a game. It’s not worth the risk you are taking.
***If I want to bungee jump, I will. It is an adult choice :).
Give yourself time to adjust to the other eyeguards. If I could do it,
so can
you.
***I have a broad nose and the approved eyewear seem to be for the
average user. My oxygen supply is ***restricted.
> Good luck,
> Jordan
***Thanks for the input, Jordan.
CHADJOYCE
Right on Jordan
I wear approved eye protection whenever I am on the court,
even while practicing by myself. You might as well practice
the way you intend to play.
I do not want to be injured if I can avoid it; and I do not want
to injure anyone else. Therefor, I do not play anyone
who does not wear approved eyewear. I carry an extra
pair in my bag, and we have extra loaners at the club.
Chad Joyce
Silver Spring, MD
Robert Tarrall
On Mon, 09 Mar 1998 13:31:22 -0500, Carlos Hill <rqt...@clemson.edu> wrote:
>Why can't adults be allowed to choose the type of eyewear they want to
Because those same adults turn around and sue the USRA, tournament
director, etc when they get injured. And, due to our entertaining
legal system, they may even win - regardless of any waivers they've
signed. The only practical defense the USRA has for this is to
require approved eyewear so they can show they're doing all they can
to make things safe.
Yes, I agree that it's stupid for people like you to try and sneak in
non-approved eyeguards, get injured, and then sue. It's even dumber
that they win. But there's nothing we can do about that part of things.
>my case about this) the pair I prefer are not approved, although they do
>have polycarbonate lenses and I wear a strap to keep them secure. I
>don't know why a strap is not required for approved eyewear as some of
>the ones on the market now, the "approved" Oakley looking type, just
>clip to the face and I don't see much protection there at all. As a
>matter of fact, recently I've been seeing the eyewear get knocked of by
>casual opponent contact. Because of my unapproved eyewear, I once got a
Loss of eyewear is an automatic end of rally. This means that there
should be no risk of further ball or racquet contact to your face after
the initial impact. I've been hit hard enough that my glasses (with
wrap-around temples, NOT the Oakley style) were knocked off my face...
they still protected my eyes for the initial impact and that's really
all that's necessary.
PC lenses are NOT the only thing that makes eyewear safe or unsafe for
racquetball. As others have mentioned over and over here, the frame
must be designed specifically to take the sort of impact encountered
in racquetball. Again speaking from personal experience, normal frames
with PC lenses can do a considerable amount of damage to your face when
hit with a ball. And normal "safety glasses" designed for industrial
use may or may not be designed to handle the energy and mass of a
racquetball.
>the attention of the referee. I've tried several of the approved
>eyewear on the market and none come close to the comfort of the ones I
>like and the coating on the lenses of the approved ones become
>bothersome after awhile. I don't have this problem with the pair I like
>bacause the lenses are not coated and the adequate ventilation takes
Not sure what you mean about the coating. A lot of the approved eyewear
out there seems to be completely uncoated, which means you need to take
good care of it because polycarbonate is quite soft and scratches easily.
If you store them in a solid case with a soft lining they last a *lot*
longer. Further, some of the approved eyeguards have replaceable lenses
which means you can get whatever sort of coating (or no coating at all)
from your local optician.
>care of the fog problem. I've been hit a couple of times and these
>passed my inspection as far as providing the protection my eyes deserve.
This doesn't mean they'll work for every impact. And, something to think
about: if the design of your glasses is so superior in ventilation and
comfort, why aren't there any approved eyeguards with that design? Maybe
because they CAN'T PASS THE APPROVAL PROCESS AND ARE UNSAFE?
>Note: I started out wearing the approved pair at our state singles
>tournament this past weekend and quickly found myself behind in the
>first match because of the fogging and sweat build up due to poor
>vwntilation. Once I switched, I went on to win my division as no one
>really bothered to make it an issue, fortunately.
Well, now we'll know to keep an eye out for you. So to speak.
-Robert.-
Robert Tarrall
On Mon, 09 Mar 1998 19:59:32 -0500, Carlos Hill <rqt...@clemson.edu> wrote:
>> On many unapproved eyewear, it is not the lenses, but the frames, or side
>get technical, there is no difference in appearance.
Replace "frame" with "temples, hinges, and nosepiece" for this discussion
then. The point I believe Jordan was trying to make is that there's a lot
more
>> Would you let an opponent play WITHOUT their hand in the racquet wrist-thong
>> because it was more comfortable for them?
>We let an opponent play in running shoes where the risk of foot
>injury is quite high. Should there be an approval for shoes also?
So far there don't seem to have been any lawsuits involving footwear.
Let's hope that continues. I suspect it will, simply because loss of
an eye is VASTLY more debilitating than an ankle injury.
>> Racquetball is just a game. It’s not worth the risk you are taking.
>If I want to bungee jump, I will. It is an adult choice :).
Actually, this is a great example. What do you think would happen if
you showed up at a bungee jumping establishment wanting to use your own
bungees? There's no way in hell they'd let you do that. Similarly,
you can wear whatever you please when hitting around on the court by
yourself; the rest of us will say "uh, I wouldn't do that if I were
you" (as Jordan and I are doing) and you can ignore or heed the advice
as you see fit. You cannot expect the USRA to let you participate in
their events like that, however.
>I have a broad nose and the approved eyewear seem to be for the
>average user. My oxygen supply is restricted.
This is one of the funniest excuses I've heard yet. :-) I know where
you're coming from, believe me... I have an asymmetric nose and it makes
fitting eyewear hell. My last pair of eyeguards actually gave me
nosebleeds; took me a long time to figure out what was wrong as I *never*
get nosebleeds and I was thinking I had some evil disease. I shopped
around more this time and I'm really happy with what I've got now -
Ektelon Odyssey I think. They look sort of like normal glasses... Wilson
makes a nearly identical model. The lenses on these are replacable, too,
so if you wanted different (or no) lens coatings an optician could do it.
-Robert.-
Otto Dietrich
Thanks for fessin' up Carlos. Better have some approved ones handy the next
time we cross paths.
The issue, folks, is not just the glass. It also concerns the frames and
what happens to them during a blow with a racquet especially at the hinge
area. If they don't hold up to that kind of blow, then you are flirting
with a potential eye injury and pray that you never have to learn the hard
way!
Otto Dietrich
National Rules Commissioner
U.S. Racquetball Association
Carlos Hill wrote in message <350435...@clemson.edu>...
>Otto Dietrich wrote:
>
>> Moreover, eyeguards that DON'T meet ASTM standard F803.94 or the CSM
>> Canadian standard, in some instances, could cause even more eye damage
than
>> not wearing any.
>>
>> The risk of eye injury is far too great to play without lensed eyewear
that
>> the manufacturer has certified as meeting or exceeding that standard.
>>
>> Just one other comment about this thread. There was one reference to
>> wearing "Oakley type eyewear." For the record, Oakley eyewear has NO
>> documentation on file with the USRA showing that any of its eyewear meets
>> either of those standards or is safe for use in racquetball.
>>
>> Otto Dietrich
>> National Rules Commissioner
>> U.S. Racquetball Association
>>
>> James N. Finley wrote in message ...
>> >Does anyone know where to find the old type of racquetball goggles
>> >without glass? I left mine lying around and someone got them.
>> >
>
>Why can't adults be allowed to choose the type of eyewear they want to
>use? I am not advocating that lenseless eyewear or glass lenses be
>allowed. The reason I throw this out is because (I know Otto will be on
>my case about this) the pair I prefer are not approved, although they do
>have polycarbonate lenses and I wear a strap to keep them secure. I
>don't know why a strap is not required for approved eyewear as some of
>the ones on the market now, the "approved" Oakley looking type, just
>clip to the face and I don't see much protection there at all. As a
>matter of fact, recently I've been seeing the eyewear get knocked of by
>casual opponent contact. Because of my unapproved eyewear, I once got a
>tecnical in a hotly contested match because my oppenent brought this to
>the attention of the referee. I've tried several of the approved
>eyewear on the market and none come close to the comfort of the ones I
>like and the coating on the lenses of the approved ones become
>bothersome after awhile. I don't have this problem with the pair I like
>bacause the lenses are not coated and the adequate ventilation takes
>care of the fog problem. I've been hit a couple of times and these
>passed my inspection as far as providing the protection my eyes deserve.
>
scott grunin
>Why can't adults be allowed to choose the type of eyewear they want to
>use? I am not advocating that lenseless eyewear or glass lenses be
>allowed. The reason I throw this out is because (I know Otto will be on
because the USRA wants to keep everyone safe and not in court because
of people sueing them for losing an eye! why in the world would you
want to use one that is not approved? not very smart
scott
Carlos Hill
Robert Tarrall wrote:
>
> Well, now we'll know to keep an eye out for you. So to speak.
>
> -Robert.-
of the closet, so to speak. Now, sounds like I'm a marked man. Otto, I
know I will see you in Atlanta soon and, unless I'm not mistaken, if my
opponent doesn't mention anything about my eyewear, it is not your place
to, right?
JordanISRA
Carlos,
(warning: this is my LONGEST reply on the NG)
About your eyeguards at a tournament.
My first club job (years ago) included walking around all 12 courts every half
hour (6 courts started on the half hour) to make sure that all players had gym
shoes (not those marking running shoes) and non-wood racquetball racquets. I
was also told to tell any player to use the wristhong.
One day I ran into this guy wearing running shoes that left marks all over the
floor. I explained that the shoes weren’t allowed and showed him the sign that
said so on the door. I told him that the club had shoes his size he could use.
Well his answer made me laugh, he said it was not HIS shoes, but the BALL that
was making those marks on the floor. He told me to tell my boss that he was not
changing his shoes.
I relayed the message to my boss (in his office). My boss sent me back down to
the court to get this members name and to again tell him not to play with the
shoes.
Again the member refused to stop playing with these shoes, but he was happy to
give me his membership account information.
My boss still couldn’t believe this guy was playing! He sent me down one last
time saying the court lights will go off unless he switches shoes.
Well 5 minutes later my boss told me to tell them the lights were going off in
30 seconds!
My boss turned the lights off on that court and this guy came running upstairs
screaming like a child.
My boss asked if he was told about the shoe rule and shown the sign on the
door. My boss also reminded him that the club would let him borrow any shoe (we
sold shoes) to play, but he refused again.
The guy kept screaming at my boss that he was a paid member and he could do
what he wanted.
My boss softly replied “no” and “not any more” and handed his membership
contract with a “cash” refund for his membership and that days court time! My
boss also told this guy the club would be happy to have him back when he got
new shoes.
Guess what, the next week this guy shows up- but with new shoes and a apology
to me and my boss!
THIS IS A TRUE STORY that I will never forget. It taught me two lessons, people
don’t like to be told what to do and never embarrass a person when enforcing a
rule.
Carlos, you now risk having the USRA drop your membership by not abiding to the
USRA membership rules...
USRA Acceptance Rule:
“By signing, you have indicated that you: have read both the Amateur Athletic
Waiver & Release of Liability and the Eyeguard Ruling detailed, accept all
preceding stipulations regarding sanctioned event competition, and will abide
by the official rules as set forth by the USRA.”
In your case, the USRA would only have to make a copy from this NG and give you
one last warning before they, and your state, dropped your membership.
I hope you are just joking around when you say you are still going to play
(sanction) tournaments with those old eyeguards.
Hey, it could be worse, the USRA could ask YOU to go around checking everyone’s
shoes!!
Good Luck,
Jordan
Carlos Hill
JordanISRA wrote:
> by the official rules as set forth by the USRA.”
>
> In your case, the USRA would only have to make a copy from this NG and give you
> one last warning before they, and your state, dropped your membership.
>
> I hope you are just joking around when you say you are still going to play
> (sanction) tournaments with those old eyeguards.
>
> Hey, it could be worse, the USRA could ask YOU to go around checking everyone’s
> shoes!!
>
> Good Luck,
> Jordan
wrong. Does anyone know what the process for USRA eyewear approval
involves? Perhaps I can contact the company and see if it will look
into going through this. I probably think not though, since approval
will present an additional liability issue I'm sure it doesn't need. At
any rate, I admit I have been wrong and will continue to try and adjust
to the approved pair.
JordanISRA
>Does anyone know what the process for USRA eyewear approval
>involves? Perhaps I can contact the company and see if it will look
>into going through this.
Carlos,
Last I heard, the cost was about $1,000 per test, done by Detroit testing to
meet ASTM standards.
The standards are basic for type of material to be used, but need to test for
impact and facial safety.
If the frames don't meet the basic standards, why even test them?
You can purchase the ASTM book on eyeguard specifications for about $21, the
same price as a good pair of LEGAL eyeguards.
P.S.
Your eyeguards went out with disco.
Good luck,
Jordan
Robert Tarrall
On Wed, 11 Mar 1998 08:05:02 -0500, Carlos Hill <rqt...@clemson.edu> wrote:
>Thanks for the input, guys. Not too sure it was very smart to come out
>of the closet, so to speak. Now, sounds like I'm a marked man. Otto, I
>know I will see you in Atlanta soon and, unless I'm not mistaken, if my
>opponent doesn't mention anything about my eyewear, it is not your place
>to, right?
Heck, this one's easy so I don't mind answering for Otto.
It's *definitely* Otto's job. It's also the job of your referee, the
tournament director, and probably anyone else working for the tournament,
the club, or the USRA.
Since the issue with eyeguards is that someone who is injured while
wearing improper eyeguards might sue the club, tournament director, and/or
the USRA, all of these groups will very likely be interested in making
sure everyone's eyewear is kosher. Further, since improper eyewear is
a technical foul, your opponent has nothing to do with the call.
Don't take it personally. Scuttlebutt at a couple of major tournaments
I've been to recently is that the USRA is really cracking down on the
eyewear thing due to a recent lawsuit (or lawsuits?)... no idea if the
lawsuit thing is true or not, and I don't know that we'd be able to get
confirmation from the USRA until any lawsuits were settled, so I guess
this is probably stuck as a rumour for now.
I'd *expect* Otto to be visiting your match to check out your eyewear,
actually. If he didn't, you'd have even more grounds to sue if you got
injured! You've already informed the senior rules official that your
eyewear is non-standard; the USRA would have a tough time claiming that
they made a reasonable effort to enforce their own safety rules.
-Robert.-
Otto Dietrich
Carlos
You are "marked" and I'd suggest that you get some legal eyeguards before we
cross paths again. As you know I like you very much as a friend and would
hate to be one of the persons who KNEW you had unsafe eyewear and let you
play anyway.
You ARE badly mistaken!! It's not just you opponent's place, but the place
of everyone at the tournament who might incur liability if you are injured
from the referee, tournament director, spectators, club owner, to even the
sponsors and the USRA!
You are a certified referee and I am shocked to learn that you are
intentionally violating one of the most important rules of the game! Please
confirm once you have changed your ways so I rest peacefully at night again
knowing that the chance of you being injured have been reduced!
Your friend (I hope)
Otto Dietrich
National Rules Commissioner
U.S. Racquetball Association
Carlos Hill wrote in message <35068B...@clemson.edu>...
john varrill
Carlos' comments got me to thinking about the referee's prematch duties
in tournaments. How many referees actually go onto the court to brief
the players rather than just go to the referee position in the balcony
and do the prematch briefing from there? And how many referees, if they
go onto the court to do the prematch briefing, actually check everyone's
eyeguards to see that they are ones on the USRA approved eyeguard list?
I must confess that I do not really check to see exactly what eyeguards
someone is using. If they look like a familiar brand designed for
racquetball, I don't check them. I'll bet some players are getting away
with wearing unapproved eyeguards. Here's one possible remedy for this.
On tournament applications, have an area where a player has to write
down what eyeguard model he or she is using. Then, have tournament
directors verify whether it is an approved eyeguard. If this information
is not on the application, then require the player to state what
eyeguards he's using when he shows up at the tournament desk for his
first match. Once this is known, the information should be put on the
player's scorecard so that the referee can verify it when he inspects
the player's equipment before the match.
Would this be too much work for the tournament directors? Probably. But
there has to be some system for making sure that players are using
approved eyeguards. If someone lists what eyeguards he is using in
advance, then if they are unapproved the tournament director could
inform the player of this and the player would have time to get a pair
of approved eyeguards. Also, I think it would make it easier for
referees to determine whether a player's eyeguards are approved.
At the very least, I think more attention needs to be given to this
area. Can someone think of a better system for making sure each player
is wearing approved eyeguards in sanctioned tournaments?
J.V.
kgeels
- I do not want to see blood or dismemberment. I had statistically increased the probability of this event.
- I do not want to be a part of a lawsuit. I had statistically increased the probability of this event.
- I do not want to see a lawsuit aimed at a club, club-owner or the USRA. I had statistically increased the probability of this event.
I think despite my obvious neurosis, this particular incident illustrates some typical human responses to the situation. Who wants to be the lone-ranger, the tough cop? Know your chain of command as a ref, know the repercussions of being irresponsible, or responding to peer pressure Truly in this situation, all the elements were in place for a big lawsuit. I think. I'm not sure, but I think as a sanctioned tourmanent, there is an implicit liability for making sure the standards of safe-play are enforced.
As John's suggestion implied, making the eye-guard enforcement thing a standard administrative thing could possibly benefit players and the sport.
I'm trying to get out of kindygarten teacher mode, but some things are hard to change.
Carlos Hill
Otto Dietrich wrote:
>
> Carlos
>
> You are "marked" and I'd suggest that you get some legal eyeguards before we
> cross paths again. As you know I like you very much as a friend and would
> hate to be one of the persons who KNEW you had unsafe eyewear and let you
> play anyway.
>
> You ARE badly mistaken!! It's not just you opponent's place, but the place
> of everyone at the tournament who might incur liability if you are injured
> from the referee, tournament director, spectators, club owner, to even the
> sponsors and the USRA!
>
> You are a certified referee and I am shocked to learn that you are
> intentionally violating one of the most important rules of the game! Please
> confirm once you have changed your ways so I rest peacefully at night again
> knowing that the chance of you being injured have been reduced!
>
> Your friend (I hope)
>
> Otto Dietrich
> National Rules Commissioner
> U.S. Racquetball Association
>
> Carlos Hill wrote in message <35068B...@clemson.edu>...
>
Otto, my eyewear is NOT unsafe, just unapproved. As was mentioned in an
earlier post, a lot of the currently approved eyewear is strictly
cosmetic and I doubt will provide significant protection in a real game
situation hit. At least I know mine have passed the test of play. But,
I will resign myself to attempt to get aquainted with an approved pair
and become and even bigger hazard on the court because of poor
vision.
Carlos Hill
kgeels wrote:
>
> Once I went down to the court during Regionals and briefed the
> players, and observed that one of the players was wearing prescription
> glasses. I asked her if they were approved. She said I don't know.
> It was obvious they were like "Ralph Lauren" glasses or something. I
> said " do you know what your face is going to look like if you get hit
> and those break?". Her attitude was basically, "I can deal with
> it.". I have these strong urban ethics about ratting people out. I
Kathy, where were you when I needed you? I believe your first
inclination is the correct one. You can point it out and if they still
choose to run the risk, thats their decision. BTW, whats the point of
the waiver we all sign as part of the entry form?
Steve Edwards
Here's one possible remedy for this.
On tournament applications, have an area where a player has to write
down what eyeguard model he or she is using. Then, have tournament
directors verify whether it is an approved eyeguard. If this information
is not on the application, then require the player to state what
eyeguards he's using when he shows up at the tournament desk for his
first match. Once this is known, the information should be put on the
player's scorecard so that the referee can verify it when he inspects
the player's equipment before the match.
Would this be too much work for the tournament directors? Probably. But
there has to be some system for making sure that players are using
approved eyeguards. If someone lists what eyeguards he is using in
advance, then if they are unapproved the tournament director could
inform the player of this and the player would have time to get a pair
of approved eyeguards. Also, I think it would make it easier for
referees to determine whether a player's eyeguards are approved.
I played in a tournament in Washington (state) one time, and they did just
that on the entry form.
kgeels
Well Carlos, I'm not sure what kind of situation you were in when you needed
some back-up. But I would be grateful to the USRA for a comment. I am
still not exactly sure if I am overstepping my bounds as a ref in a
sanctioned tournament by insisting that approved eye-guards be worn, or if
in fact the waiver does address all liability. But if I remember correctly,
it is grounds for forfeiture. I don't know if I'm supposed to handle it, or
if the TD is supposed to intervene or what. I'm just not sure what the
letter and/or spirit of the guidelines are.
However, I can say that if it happened again, I would not hesitate the way I
did originally. And if it isn't my place to rat someone else out, then I'll
just say "I'm sorry, then you'll have to go to the TD and request another
ref." The possibilities are too ugly, and I don't want blood on my hands.
It's a ridiculous abuse of priorities to pay 50 bucks to play in a
tournament, but not invest 12 bucks to protect your eyes.
Carlos Hill wrote:
> kgeels wrote:
> >
> > Once I went down to the court during Regionals and briefed the
> > players, and observed that one of the players was wearing prescription
> > glasses. I asked her if they were approved. She said I don't know.
> > It was obvious they were like "Ralph Lauren" glasses or something. I
> > said " do you know what your face is going to look like if you get hit
> > and those break?". Her attitude was basically, "I can deal with
> > it.". I have these strong urban ethics about ratting people out. I
>
CHADJOYCE
If you had seen some of the eye injuries that I have seen,
you would never hesitate to impose the USRA rules
requiring approved eyewear for USRA sanctioned
tournaments. According to the rules, I believe, it is
a technical to even warm up on the court before your match
without approved eyewear.
I never play anyone anytime unless they are wearing
protective eyewear. I do not want to be injured, and
I do not want to be responsible for someone else's injury
to their eyes.
Mark R. Jacobson
What types of perscription eyewear, if any, are approved for tournament
play by USRA. I wear "flexon" frames with polycarb. lenses; are these
approved or do I need other eyewear. If so, what would any of you
recommend for someone who prefers to wear perscription lenses as opposed
to contacts or eyeguards over my glasses.
Thanks,
Mark Jacobson
scott grunin
I use kleershot which are approved and they will put perscription
lenses in for you...cost me about $80 or so for the frames and putting
the perscription lenses in
scott grunin
Robert Tarrall
On Wed, 18 Mar 1998 11:42:03 -0500,
Mark R. Jacobson <mjac...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>What types of perscription eyewear, if any, are approved for tournament
>play by USRA. I wear "flexon" frames with polycarb. lenses; are these
>approved or do I need other eyewear. If so, what would any of you
>recommend for someone who prefers to wear perscription lenses as opposed
>to contacts or eyeguards over my glasses.
See the USRA approved eyeguard list at:
http://www.usra.org/pub&ref/eyeguard.htm
They mark the prescription-able models with an "RX" next to the model
names... I have an Ektelon model which is no longer made that I really
like. As far as I can tell it is identical to Wilson's version; think
it's called the "Tempo" but I'm not positive.
There is one hole I can see in the eyewear situation (OTTO, PLEASE NOTE)...
there does not seem to be a specification for the prescription lenses.
I can take one of the Rx-able models to an optician and get whatever
lenses I want put in it. 2mm or 3mm CR-39, high-index, glass, or
polycarbonate, maybe other materials and thicknesses I'm not aware of.
It would be very nice if the USRA could post guidelines or requirements
for materials and thicknesses of prescription lenses in approved eyewear.
-Robert.-
pyscho...@gmail.com
> Does anyone know where to find the old type of racquetball goggles
> without glass? I left mine lying around and someone got them.
Racquets world describe why it is important to have a racquetball racquet.
https://racquetsworld.com/best-racquetball-goggles/