Operation Opinions ******Please Help*******
Jimbo Ct
which of the 2 following doctors would you choose?
1) This doctor has been working doing these operations for 10 years, he
has a ton of hours in the OR and has worked with other doctors in the past and
has worked on many different types of people.
2) Doctor 2 isn't really a doctor at all, he never went to school, but he
bought some doctor tools and read some books and watched some videos on this
operation. He has nice tools and has done some short practice work on small
woodland animals, for fun. On the outside his stitches look good, but it's hard
to see inside and none of the patients he's worked on have been around long
enough to any long term results, Can he be trusted?
I'm asking for opinions because the second doctor keeps telling me that he'll
do it cheap and that he's just as good. He says it's an easy operation and you
don't really need to do many of them to be real good at them, in fact he claims
he learned about 85% of what he needed to know from reading 1 book, and he's
already watched a few videos.
Jim <----what
would you guys do?
Bruce
do it yourself. Save big bucks and have something else to add to your
resume.
Bruce
"Jimbo Ct" <jim...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20021110071925...@mb-md.aol.com...
Jim White
Glad you are feeling better.
Jim
"Jimbo Ct" <jim...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20021110071925...@mb-md.aol.com...
Donald Tees
Donald
WilleeCue
Glad to see you back and stirring the shit some more.
Having never seen one of his operations or talked to anyone who has had one
done....
You should read the books and watch the videos so you can tell the 2nd doctor
that you know more about it than him
But .... make it clear that you are not saying anything bad about his
operations ... you are just criticizing the fact he SAYS he can do it.
You can then make up things and tell everyone lies about it but deny everything
even when proof is shown to you in black and white.
Since you think that the other patients are stupid and can not read very well,
you can twist words and make up anything you want.
Better yet go the doctors newsgroup and make a real fool of yourself doing it in
public.
Not all doctors can do a lobotomy equally as well.
Obviously .... you went to the wrong doctor.
William Lee < ........ Thinks Jimbo is a real Bimbo that shaved off his blond
hair.
"Jimbo Ct" <jim...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20021110071925...@mb-md.aol.com...
Ninebal310
You can't trust either of them. My advise to you is to just kill yourself
and that way EVERYBODY would be happy.
Hustlin' Hank
Smorgass Bored
My advise to you is to just kill yourself and that way EVERYBODY
would be happy.
Hustlin' Hank
(*<~ I agree with Hank 95% and my wife agrees the other 5%. Kill
yourself.
and, take your 'yes men' with you,
Doug
~>*(((>< Big fish eat Little fish ><)))*<~
Jennifer
are no shortcuts to experience and knowledge. I wouldn't trust anyone who
doesn't have an M.D. behind their name. I'm sure Doctor 2 is a great guy
but think of what you are asking here.
Ask yourself some more questions....
1. Does this procedure involve anesthesia? Even local anesthetics can have
a serious effect on your heart.
2. Does this procedure involve entering a body cavity? If so, you are
risking body wide exposure to infection.
3. Does Doctor 2 have a medical license issued by the state you live in?
What would be your legal recourse if he screws up?
4. What type of facilities does Doctor 2 have? How will he ensure asepsis
(sterile surgery)? Does he have a technician to assist him?
Think about it.
--
Jennifer
**remove the NOSPAM from my email address before sending**
"Jimbo Ct" <jim...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20021110071925...@mb-md.aol.com...
WilleeCue
He was using his brand of sarcastic humor to poke fun at me and my cuemaking
skills.
Sorry you got caught up in his bullshit and took it seriously but I doubt if he
is.
William Lee < ........ Boy wonder cuemaker. (more sarcasm)
"Jennifer" <jenn...@jessnjennNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:ust830h...@corp.supernews.com...
Jim Wyant
"Jimbo Ct" <jim...@aol.comnojunk> wrote:
I worked in the O.R. for over 12 years and experienced on hundreds of
occasions this exact scenario (they were called interns and residents), and
can certainly attest that 80% of the time Doctor 2 could probably get you
out of surgery and into the Recovery Room. But, they certainly aren't as
cognizant of the impact of everything they are doing to the other systems in
the body, their internal cutting and stitches aren't as clean, and they
definitely need the mentoring of an Attending Surgeon to continue to help
them learn and enhance their craft. I will also say that I saw many Board
Certified surgeons who were more dangerous than 2nd year residents, just as
I saw 2nd year residents that were exceptionally good.
But then again, this was about human life and the relief of suffering, but
to bring this back to pool, surgery is not something that could be
incredible or an expensive piece of firewood. In days of old, cuemakers HAD
to learn their craft through a long apprenticeship program, slowly acquiring
knowledge and working with dirt-cheap wages while trying to afford and
acquire the tools of the trade to allow them to strike out on their own.
I often wonder how some of the great cuemakers of the past would have
embraced our information and communication centric society. Imagine the
benefit of having a video to stop and replay over and over, of having books
and journals with full descriptions penned by authors that were still alive
that they could correspond with. Imagine how many potentially great
cuemakers have lived in the past that never got the chance just because they
had a life to support and no reasonable way to achieve the necessary
intellectual capital to get them started, so their passion simply turned to
admiration.
Don't be such a cheap bastard. Take a chance. Imagine how incredible it
would have been to own an early Szamboti or Balabushka, to say "I knew him
when......".
--Jim
Smorgass Bored
The sound of 'something' going right over Jennifer's head. Wonder what
it was ?
Jennifer (hooked in the upper & lower lip and cheek by a treble hook)
reguritates:
Hon, I work for surgeons. This seems to be a clear cut situation.
There are no shortcuts to experience and knowledge. I wouldn't trust
anyone who doesn't have an M.D. behind their name. I'm sure Doctor 2 is
a great guy but think of what you are asking here.
Ask yourself some more questions....
1. Does this procedure involve anesthesia? Even local anesthetics can
have a serious effect on your heart.
2. Does this procedure involve entering a body cavity? If so, you are
risking body wide exposure to infection.
3. Does Doctor 2 have a medical license issued by the state you live in?
What would be your legal recourse if he screws up?
4. What type of facilities does Doctor 2 have? How will he ensure
asepsis (sterile surgery)? Does he have a technician to assist him?
Think about it.
--
Jennifer
and I thought it was too windy to get a bite........ oy-vey !
Hugh(LCS)
making a cue are 2 different things..your post makes no sense at all..and as
usual, you're just starting shit AGAIN...
back in yur cave, bat!
"Jimbo Ct" <jim...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20021110071925...@mb-md.aol.com...
Michael Thornton
Am I the the only one that saw complement in there? Wow.
michael <- I usually stay out of this bs, but I can't resist this time.
WilleeCue
William Lee
"Michael Thornton" <michael@_remove_symbiosoft.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2002.11.10.16.44.36.814322.1398@_remove_symbiosoft.com...
Jim White
"Michael Thornton" <michael@_remove_symbiosoft.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2002.11.10.16.44.36.814322.1398@_remove_symbiosoft.com...
>
Yep I think so!!
Jim (Not as sharp as Michael)
Jimbo Ct
>making a cue are 2 different things..your post makes no sense at all
I'm sorry you can't read Hugh, My post had no mention of cues at all, where
you'd come up with a cue analogy when my post had not 1 cue reference in it is
beyond me. I knew that in ASP I could post under jungle rules so I did and my
post was unpool related. I do think it's funny that you guys can understand and
read into some posts yet on others you see things verbatim, I guess it's
selective comprehension and you can read when it suites you.
Jim <------Now back to the operation talk
WilleeCue
What did you say about speaking for others not too long ago?
Do I need to dig it up and repost it?
Here is a tidbit or two for you....
"I think there are few things more ignorant than tying to tell someone "what
they really meant." - Lou Figueroa 11/08/02
"Jimbo, you are looking more and more like a clown every day"
Willee, the clown cuemaker. 11/10/ 2002
William Lee < ... it is hard to keep lies from overlaping once you tell a few
hundred of them.
"Jimbo Ct" <jim...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20021110180742...@mb-mq.aol.com...
Hugh(LCS)
ya know jimbo..there's a funny thing about chicken shit..that little white
speck on top is chicken shit too!!
"Jimbo Ct" <jim...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20021110180742...@mb-mq.aol.com...
lfigueroa
Oscar Wilde, or at least Groucho Marx :-)
Lou Figueroa
"WilleeCue" <n5...@stx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:hZBz9.314567$Fw2.9...@twister.austin.rr.com...
Jimbo Ct
>speck on top is chicken shit too!
This is the second time you said this, it wasn't funny the first time either.
Jim <----No chickens around here, never seen chicken shit.
Mountain Mike^^
> Come back and sling some mud with us any time you feel like it, Michael.
>
diplomas, the Ivy League schools, the friend of a friend, and the fact that
*they* were among the first 13 states. It goes back to old English snobbery,
where we originated. Nothing was done without connections, without *proper*
training, and without approval of the ruling elite.
Nothing chaffs their ass more than a come-uppance newcomer that spoils (and
makes meaningless) their hold on any craft, trade, profession, or union that
hasn't paid tribute. Do you get it yet? It's old world elitism, and doesn't
work outside their domain. It threatens their existence, don't you
know.........
Now here you come, all fat dumb and happy, and make cues. You neglect to cow
tow to the *acknowledged experts*, and thus you are branded. By creating
artistic works in spite of this makes you more dangerous to their position.
If you have ever wondered WHY you pissed them off, now you know. The *work*
doesn't matter; it's the lineage that counts with these people.
Here, in the West, where the territory is vast, and in Alaska, this
horseshit isn't tolerated. We don't care if you're an uneducated redneck, as
long as your word is good, your check don't bounce, and you deliver the
goods. We have no time for hierarchy, and no stomach for it either. That
yoke was paid for circa 1776. The politics of today is the same. And their
bodies are scattered around the country, like so much mulch for the
vegetable garden.
Their time is gone, they just haven't surrendered. They *know* it, though,
and it's why you get so much heat. I'm a Californian by birth, a Texan by
lineage, and I embrace all who say simply to simpletons this:
Blow me.
MM^^<--they understand nothing else
Edward Kagan
"Jennifer" <jenn...@jessnjennNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:ust830h...@corp.supernews.com...
WilleeCue
Did the great one run out of free AOL hours or is he trying to keep his tally
low for Donald's data?
He used to spew forth line after line but now is restricting his replies to PJ
style one-liners.
Perhaps his ruffled feathers got a little burned so he put his computer on
auto-reply for a while.
William Lee
"Jimbo Ct" <jim...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20021111015857...@mb-mv.aol.com...
Donald Tees
reason for posting it to set up a fight you think you can win? Perhaps, as a start, you
could comment on what you just said ... is it true? Did that post really have nothing at
all to do with cue-making?
I am quite willing to ask what people mean, and I really do listen to what they say, but
I listen becasue I want to communicate with them, not because I want to pick a fight with them.
Being told what I said, then being told what I meant, then being told that I am a liar
for meaning it does not communicate a lot.
Donald
Patrick Johnson
>
> Blow me.
You mean you've stopped charging?
(A man who loves his work...)
Pat Johnson
Chicago
WilleeCue
It sounds like you have given blow jobs for money in the past and you love doing
it.
If this was not your intention please straighten it out.
William Lee
"Patrick Johnson" <patrick...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:3DCFB...@attbi.com...
Fred Agnir
>
> Jim <------Now back to the operation talk
The saying used to be something like:
" 'C' is a passing grade even in medical school."
Fred
Joe Van
>true, you didnt mention it..but you were referring to it.
Just like Willee was refering to himself with the 95% knowing crap...
Anyone who read it knew it... it was blantantly obvious.
Joe Van
>Here, in the West, where the territory is vast, and in Alaska, this
>horseshit isn't tolerated.
You need to rewrite this...
>>Here, in the West, where the territory is vast, and men are men, and the
animals are nervous, and in Alaska, this horseshit isn't tolerated.<<
Reads better and is more accurate.... :)
Gordon Matheson
"Jennifer" advises:
>
> Think about it.
Sound advice if you ask me. Also good for doing before you reply to posts.
G. - feels embarrassed for well meaning Jennifer
Rideda9
has a ton of hours in the OR and has worked with other doctors in the past and
has worked on many different types of people.
2) Doctor 2 isn't really a doctor at all, he never went to school, but he
bought some doctor tools and read some books and watched some videos on this
operation. He has nice tools and has done some short practice work on small
woodland animals, for fun. On the outside his stitches look good, but it's hard
to see inside and none of the patients he's worked on have been around long
enough to any long term results, Can he be trusted? >>
This doesn't seem pool related, but, personally I'd have to go with the
experienced Doc. Makes no sense to put myself in the hands of someone with
no experience.
A person can read all he wants about anything and may be knowledgable, but
until you have the experience, you're just an intern.
Herman
Gordon Matheson
"Jimbo Ct" needs an operation:
sniped credentials for white-haired surgeon and eager resident that's
showing some promise:
Jimbo as your friend, I'd like to beg you to forget about the operation.
Forget what they are promising you. It's not really going to get any bigger.
Working on your technique will do you more good IMO. Especially if you can
get a girl "buddy" to spread it around how good your technique really is.
G.- no experience at teaching this to guys
WilleeCue
Joe, Joe, Joe ....
Did you really read what I posted?
here it is again ...
"Like many other endeavors a person can learn to do 95% of
the work in a very short time and then spend the rest of his life learning and
refining that last 5%. That last 5% is what really separates the masters from
the average".
I infered that I (being a person) can learn to do 95% of the work (cuemaking) in
a very short time.
(did I really need to post it verbatim again?)
Jimbo twisted that to read I knew 95% of everything there was to know about
cuemaking.
Can you not see the difference?
Do you not notice he always snips out the actual quote when he does that?
William Lee < ... Why lord, is it SO hard?
"Joe Van" <class...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021111114028...@mb-ba.aol.com...
Rideda9
making a cue are 2 different things..your post makes no sense at all..and as
usual, you're just starting shit AGAIN...
back in yur cave, bat! >>
Is this really a pool newsgroup...... WOW
From the little bit I've read, there seems to be a lot of people here starting
shit...
Herman
WilleeCue
Care to get down in the mud with the rest of the pigs?
William Lee
"Rideda9" <rid...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021111120412...@mb-fy.aol.com...
Joe Van
>Joe, Joe, Joe ....
>Did you really read what I posted?
>here it is again ...
Yes I did read it.. in the context of the whole post, not just the initial
paragraph, its
very clear to how you ment it.
Joe
Smorgass Bored
<with snippage> <ouch,that hurts>
Is this really a pool newsgroup...... WOW
From the little bit I've read, there seems to be a lot of people here
starting shit...
Herman
(*<~ What's your point, dickhead ?
O.K. , O.K. ,
just kidding,
Doug
~>*(((>< Big fish eat Little fish ><)))*<~
Joe Van
>Joe, Joe, Joe ....
>Did you really read what I posted?
>here it is again ...
Just so there is no misconception to what was said....
>>Well thank you Jack, for giving me the benefit of the doubt about the cues I
make. Photos can be deceiving and until you actually have the cue in you hands
it is
very hard to properly judge it.
Some here think otherwise and that is a source for much debate.
I can only hope that perhaps someday you will have the desire to own one of my
cues.
The "Trade" is really not all that hard to learn IF you have the right tools
and
equipment, good instruction, friends in the business, and a mechanical aptitude
for that kind of work. Like many other endeavors a person can learn to do 95%
of
the work in a very short time and then spend the rest of his life learning and
refining that last 5%. That last 5% is what really separates the masters from
the average.
I look closely at other cuemakers work when ever I have the opportunity. I look
for flaws in workmanship and usually can find one or two. I learn a lot
thinking
about what caused the flaws and how they could have been avoided or corrected.
Most are cosmetic flaws in the finish but some are real boo boos in the fit and
construction. A lot can be learned by studying others work.
William Lee<<
The word that turns on you here is "trade", and your application to said trade
in the preveious paragraph about cues, not only cues but your cues. You being
the cuemaker, it can be easily and properly determined that you ment your cues,
your knowledge. Its not that hard to figure out, like you said. The fact that
you continue to snip the above paragraph shows you are trying to mislead the
true definition to what you posted. The fact Jimbo snipped the important and
incriminating paragraphs shock me. Alone your paragraph is true, but within the
body of the post, its an inoperable cancer that will eat you alive.
Donald Tees
>The word that turns on you here is "trade", and your application to said trade
>in the preveious paragraph about cues, not only cues but your cues. You being
>the cuemaker, it can be easily and properly determined that you ment your cues,
>your knowledge. Its not that hard to figure out, like you said. The fact that
>you continue to snip the above paragraph shows you are trying to mislead the
>true definition to what you posted. The fact Jimbo snipped the important and
>incriminating paragraphs shock me. Alone your paragraph is true, but within the
>body of the post, its an inoperable cancer that will eat you alive.
>
>Joe
>www.pooltablemagic.net / www.classiccues.com
>
>
This is exactly what blows me away ... your contention that you can
"prove" what someone else meant, even
when they say, over and over again, "that is NOT what I meant".
First you decide what they mean. Then you decide that they cannot
comment on what they mean, you are
the sole judge. Then you claim they are immoral for meaning what you
claim they mean, and and a liar for
meaning it. Meanwhile, all the stuff you are railing about has been said
only by yourself, not by the person
that you are calling a liar. They are saying over and over again it is
not true, you are saying over and over
again it is not true, everybody is saying over and over again it is not
true. It seems a little overbearing to me.
If you really want to know what somebody means, you ask them, you do not
tell them.
Donald
Rideda9
Care to get down in the mud with the rest of the pigs?
William Lee >>
geeezzzz, ask a question and you get this kind of reply. Did you get up on
the wrong side of the bed or is everyone like this?
and no, I'm not into conversations with pigs.
Herman
WilleeCue
Do you read it the same way Jimbo read it?
Do you think I said I know 95% of all cuemaking knowledge?
William lee
"Joe Van" <class...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021111123732...@mb-md.aol.com...
WilleeCue
pig.
I guess you would have needed to be around here for a while to understand the
full meaning of that statment.
Anyway ... feel free to throw in a comment any time you like.
William Lee
"Rideda9" <rid...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021111134940...@mb-ct.aol.com...
WilleeCue
I know it is, and so do others.
English is my first language and although I do make mistakes sometimes I general
get my point across.
Now around here you got to say things as if a lawyer were picking every word
apart and redefining it.
Can you please point out what it was that I said that is so offensive?
Can you prove any part of that statement is untrue?
William Lee < ... so sue me!
"Joe Van" <class...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021111132556...@mb-mu.aol.com...
Joe Van
>This is exactly what blows me away ... your contention that you can
>"prove" what someone else meant, even
>when they say, over and over again, "that is NOT what I meant".
>
>First you decide what they mean. Then you decide that they cannot
>comment on what they mean, you are
>the sole judge.
Ok Donald.. so if I say screw you.. and you take it as such, but I say
that I ment have a nice day, its ok? That is what is happening here.
His writing is vague enough to be able to dance around for the sole purpose
of arguing, when anyone in their right mind knows exactly what was ment by
the post.
Screw you... :)
Joe Van
>If you really want to know what somebody means, you ask them, you do not
>tell them.<<
This maybe true, but it really depends on the truthfulness of the source.
Joe Van
>an you please point out what it was that I said that is so offensive?
>Can you prove any part of that statement is untrue?
I don't find anything offensive in what you wrote. There is also
no one questioning its "truthfulness", just the application, or
better yet, your said application of what you wrote. Your telling
everyone its not ment for Willecues, when we all know it was.
Joe Van
>Do you think I said I know 95% of all cuemaking knowledge?
>
>William lee
Indirectly, yes. Its very clear when put in with the whole post
exactly what you mean. Now the question is do you believe you
know 95% of all cuemaking knowledge?
Eric Sagong
I wish you good luck with your operation. I hope the enlargement turns out the
way you want it.
--Eric Sagong
Donald Tees
tell you what you mean, and tell you to screw off based on it. In general, if I only
think a person is trying to pick a fight, I either do not answer, or I ask. Generally,
I try to ask in a civil tone of voice.
If I am making a statement, I'll often be aggressive about it. That is the nature
of NG's, and writing tends to be a lot more blunt than diplomatic. That does
not mean I'll state it correctly the first time, or even the second and third.
Nevertheless, it does mean I am more interested in hearing what and how
you think than I am in beating you in an intellectual debate. If you tell me to
screw off, and you insinuate that it is a debating device, then yes, I will accept
it as such. I might tell you that I do not think a lot of your debating technique,
but I sure as hell will not call you a liar for it.
Donald
Joe Van
>If I am making a statement, I'll often be aggressive about it. That is
>the nature
>of NG's, and writing tends to be a lot more blunt than diplomatic. That does
>not mean I'll state it correctly the first time, or even the second and
>third.
I understand this as well as you do. But in his post its very clear
IMHO to decipher his ramblings. I know what he was trying to
do and he is getting called on it. I am also sure like the other
backpeddlers, he will keep spinning it till you aren't sure what the
hell you are saying, let alone what he posted to begin with.
>I might tell you that I do not think a lot of your debating
>technique, but I sure as hell will not call you a liar for it.<<
I only call them as I see them Donald. If you want to
fish for sharks, becareful one may want to jump into the
boat with you. :)
Joe
Jimbo Ct
can
>"prove" what someone else meant, even
>when they say, over and over again, "that is NOT what I meant".
What blows me away is that you are still defending people after they were asked
over and over to explain what they meant and they choose not to educate
everyone as to what they meant.
Donald: >If you really want to know what somebody means, you ask them,
Can you read? Did you miss the many times people were asked to explain
themselves? You read with extreme prejudice Donald, some day you'll learn to
read all the posts. Also in America we understand that what's written is just a
small part of whole message, sometimes you need to read into the meaning. Some
people word things to mean them exactly the way they want while still leaving
an out.
You don't seem to have any trouble reading the meaning behind my post do you??
Is it because it's me and you have a hard on for me? Yet you get very mad if
someone does it to others? Where is your ability to be impartial while reading?
Will you ever be able to just read a post and understand it for what it really
means or will you continue to read the name first and go in with a preconceived
notion as to what it'll be about? You don't have to like everyone Don , but
don't sit back and pretend your above it all, you're just another member of my
fan club.
JIM <---Popular
WilleeCue
You also do not question its truthfulness.
I don't get it!
If it is not offensive and is the truth what is the issue?
The way I worded it so I could worm around later when questioned about it?
I really never expected to be questioned about it to the degree that I have
been.
Holy shit ... do you ever read Jimbo's posts and apply the same logic to him?
Joe, WilleeCues is the name of my cues.
William Lee is my name.
The cues don't make themselves, I make them.
What are you trying to say with that last sentence cause I really do not
understand it.
Can you understand that in order to make a cue you need to first have an
understanding of how it is done ( knowledge) and second have the skill (ability)
to actually do it? They are two separate things. Does that help clear up what I
said?
William Lee
"Joe Van" <class...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021111142828...@mb-cg.aol.com...
WilleeCue
This is exactly what I mean when I say that you are a HYPOCRITE!
You say things just for the effect not for truthfulness.
You want to point out your pompass rules of righteousness to everyone else but
deny that you ever violate them yourself.
William Lee
"Jimbo Ct" <jim...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20021111152701...@mb-fc.aol.com...
>
> You don't seem to have any trouble reading the meaning behind my post do you??
> Is it because it's me and you have a hard on for me? Yet you get very mad if
> someone does it to others? Where is your ability to be impartial while
reading?
> Will you ever be able to just read a post and understand it for what it really
> means or will you continue to read the name first and go in with a
preconceived
> notion as to what it'll be about?
> JIM <---Popular
>
WilleeCue
Boy Howdy, Joe, how many times do I half to show that damm post.
Aint no one here ever gonna forget what it said.
Here it is again .... just in case:
"Like many other endeavors a person can learn to do 95% of
the work in a very short time and then spend the rest of his life learning and
refining that last 5%. That last 5% is what really separates the masters from
the average".
This is where Jimbo started this bullshit by stating that I said that that I
know 95% of all cue making knowledge.
Is that what my words say?
I am a person just like you, so yes ... in that respect I am refering to me as
well as everyone else on the planet earth.
It was said in a reply to Donald and he had no problem understanding exactly
what I meant by it.
You and Jimbo are the ones making a big deal over it and spining it into
something it was never intended to be.
Remindes me of a big time tag team wrestling match.
Who you gonna tag to come in next so we can start this all over again?
William lee
"Joe Van" <class...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021111152310...@mb-fi.aol.com...
.
>
> I understand this as well as you do. But in his post its very clear
> IMHO to decipher his ramblings. I know what he was trying to
> do and he is getting called on it. I am also sure like the other
> backpeddlers, he will keep spinning it till you aren't sure what the
> hell you are saying, let alone what he posted to begin with.
>
> Joe
>
>
> www.pooltablemagic.net / www.classiccues.com
Ninebal310
>Joe you stoped a bit short there and did not quite address the issue.
>Do you read it the same way Jimbo read it?
>Do you think I said I know 95% of all cuemaking knowledge?
>
>William lee
I am not Joe but here is MY take on the subject. I LOVE to give opinions.
Learning about making a cue isn't rocket science. I am sure anybody with a
little patience, reading skills, and the right tools can make a cue. How to
make it pretty is an ART form that is open to interpretation.
I would think that picking the right wood, the right curing techniques and
how often to turn such wood is the MAIN factors in how it is going to "hit".
Also, how fast it is going to warp. Other than that, it is just a piece of
wood.
Willie, I believe you can make a good stick. The only problem is that you are
unknown because you haven't been doing it long enough to build a reputation.
There are at least 2 guys in Columbus that make custom cues. But, I doubt that
anybody has heard of them outside Ohio. Does that make them bad? No way! I have
seen their work and it looks great, but will it hold up over time? Who knows?
The well known cue makers have proven themselves over a long period of time,
just like any other producer/manufacturer/craftsman of cues, movies, cases or
whatever.
Good luck!
Hustlin' Hank
Mike Page
jim...@aol.comnojunk (Jimbo Ct) wrote:
>> Donald Teees: This is exactly what blows me away ...
> [...] You don't have to like everyone Don , but
It really gets me when people just assume Donald and Don are
interchangeable. I mean can you imagine?
Donald Juan
Don Duck
Donald King
Ronald McDon
need I go on?
--
mike page
fargo
Jimbo Ct
>Aint no one here ever gonna forget what it said.
Post it a thousand more times , or just explain what you meant, I've given you
plenty of times to explain exactly what you meant by it, but since you meant
exactly how it was taken you keep chosing to ignore the oppertuinty to clearify
it.
2 Questions for Willy
Do you believe there is a difference between building a cue and putting one
together?
Do you agree that one can learn to build a cue that is well built yet a bad
cue?
Jim <------Knows More about building cues then willy, but far from a cuemaker
WilleeCue
Consider this ...
The established cuemakers you are refering to started at ground zero sometime in
the past.
Were the cues that they made the first year of their carrer any less quality
that the ones they make now?
Or to say it another way ....
Are the cues they make now better than the ones they made 5 or 10 years ago?
If we go with conventional opinion that it takes many years to learn how to make
a cue correctly then the answer to that last question must be yes. So ... now we
must ask how much better? ... a little or a lot? .. and in what way?
Should we avoid buying their older cues because they are inferior to what they
make today?
About what year did their work become good enough to call it a quality product
and how was that judged?
Certinaly the ability to resist warpage over time is a desirable charactor in a
cue but is it the only measure of quality?
If you see one cue that is warped does that tell you that the cuemaker that made
it did not know what he was doing and all his cues will warp?
Questions ... questions ... questions ....
Got any answers?
William Lee
"Ninebal310" <nineb...@aol.committed> wrote in message
news:20021111170442...@mb-de.aol.com...
WilleeCue
"Jimbo Ct" <jim...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
>
> 2 Questions for Willy
>
> Do you believe there is a difference between building a cue and putting one
> together?
>
Bimbo, I know these are loaded questions that you hope to make a fool of me with
but here are your answers.
No ... IMO they are both the same thing!
And you can inckude "making one" also to the list of terms.
Parts are parts no matter who makes them.
It is the quality of the parts and the method of assembly that matters most.
> Do you agree that one can learn to build a cue that is well built yet a bad
> cue?
Possably ....... but I would ask that you explain what you mean by bad?
Is it a bad cue because you dont like the hit, weight, taper, or feel of the
cue.
That same cue might be considered perfect by someone else.
No one sets out to learn to build (make) bad cues
They want to learn to build (make) good well built cues.
> Jim <------Knows More about building cues then willy, but far from a cuemaker
I seriously doubt that, Jim, and if I said something like that you would have
been on it like stink on shit.
You can see my cues at my site http://home.stx.rr.com/n5wrx
Now show us the cues you have built cause you have implied over and over you
cant learn it from tapes and books.
William Lee < ... cuemaker offering solid proof.
ted harris
> until you have the experience, you're just an intern.
The voice of REASON!
--
Ted Harris
"Rideda9" <rid...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021111115621...@mb-fy.aol.com...
WilleeCue
your cues became "good" and were the cues you made up to that time "bad"?
Do you build a cue or put one together?
William Lee
"ted harris" <nada...@tedharris.com> wrote in message
news:ajXz9.25995$46.101@fe01...
Hugh(LCS)
cuemaker
lies, lies, lies!
"Jimbo Ct" <jim...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20021111174630...@mb-fi.aol.com...
ted harris
and honed my skills by fixing cues through regular maintenance, abuse, or by
fixing other peoples mistakes. And I mean tens of thousands of them. When I
finally felt I had everything I needed; skill and knowledge, and the ability
to bring everything necessary together to create cues that were worthy of
admittance into the ACA, I did so. The cue that I submitted to the ACA was
from my first batch of cues. However, that is not to say that they will not
get better, as of course they will, through the use of materials, better
adhesives, and more creative art expression. I "make" cues from raw
materials as defined by the American Cuemakers Association! Additionally,
there is a whole universe of knowledge and information that is still out
there, and I intend to find "some" of it.
build Pronunciation Key (bld)
v. built, (blt) build·ing, builds
v. tr.
1.. To form by combining materials or parts; construct
I guess you could say that "building" cues is part of my resume, albeit a
small one.
--
Ted Harris
"WilleeCue" <n5...@stx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:tDXz9.319400$Fw2.9...@twister.austin.rr.com...
Mark0
clearly a quick study.
ASP is the pool hall where we shoot the $hit. RSB is the lab where we
display our findings and opinions about P&B (usually). You're welcome in
either or both. Be sure you have your asbestos shorts on though.
Mark0
"Rideda9" <rid...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021111120412...@mb-fy.aol.com...
| << well for starters, mr. dickhead from the east...having an operation and
| making a cue are 2 different things..your post makes no sense at all..and
as
| usual, you're just starting shit AGAIN...
| back in yur cave, bat! >>
|
|
| Is this really a pool newsgroup...... WOW
|
| From the little bit I've read, there seems to be a lot of people here
starting
| shit...
|
| Herman
Gordon Matheson
"WilleeCue" asks a lot of superfolous questions:
> Hank, I agree with everything you say.
>
> Consider this ...
> The established cuemakers you are refering to started at ground zero
sometime in
> the past.
> Were the cues that they made the first year of their carrer any less
quality
> that the ones they make now?
That's easy. YES!!!! A lot less. First years of Carrers tend to be steep
lerning crves.
> Or to say it another way ....
> Are the cues they make now better than the ones they made 5 or 10 years
ago?
Depends on when they started. If they are old farts the answer is probably
not better but definitely more expensive.
> If we go with conventional opinion that it takes many years to learn how
to make
> a cue correctly then the answer to that last question must be yes.
Not necessarily -see above
The rest of the questions aren't important based on above answers IMO
You're just going to have to get your cues in the hands of players if you
want to get a reputation for anything other than Jim's playtoy. Why don't
you sent a couple of cues on a asp/rsb review tour? I'm sure one of our
expert casemakers will be glad to lend a good shipping case if they are in
on the product review. Your reputatiion might take a giant leap forward for
instance if Slim used one of your cues to kick Jimbos butt on a bar table or
if Jerry used one of your conservative cues and his newfound skills to kick
Pat and Ron's Liberal butts on a trip to Chicago. (On second thought you
better leave Ron out of it)
G. - cue expert for 15 years
Gordon Matheson
"Mike Page" gets imaginative:
(Jimbo Ct) wrote:
>
> >> Donald Teees: This is exactly what blows me away ...
>
> > [...] You don't have to like everyone Don , but
>
> It really gets me when people just assume Donald and Don are
> interchangeable. I mean can you imagine?
>
>
> Donald Juan
> Don Duck
> Donald King
> Ronald McDon
> need I go on?
> mike page
> fargo
No, you made your point Michael.
G. -Gordon, Gordo and today Gordy for Crissake. Please call me Sir in the
future :-)
Gordon Matheson
"Smorgass never Bored us with:
Herman with German Helmet said:
<with snippage> <ouch,that hurts>
Is this really a pool newsgroup...... WOW
From the little bit I've read, there seems to be a lot of people here
starting shit...
Herman
(*<~ What's your point, dickhead ?
LOL, I love a good question.
> O.K. , O.K. ,
just kidding,
Sure and I'm a conservative pumpkin.
G. - Liberal squash
Gordon Matheson
G. knows he isn't studying
"Eric Sagong" <thes...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021111143943...@mb-mq.aol.com...
WilleeCue
questions.
I knew that you had been doing repair work for many years.
I don't think it matters whether you say you "make" or "build" a cue as the
words seem to be interchangeable.
What matters is that you do have the skill, talent, and knowledge to do so and I
really don't think that is any question.
From your answer I take it you feel that the materials and the art work is what
will improve the quality of your cues in the future and that you have the
construction part of it fairly well down pat.
I would agree with you on that because I think that the bulk of cue
construction knowledge is known by today's cuemakers already and only a small
fraction of it has yet to be discovered. After all ..... there is only so much
that can be done to a 59" wood dowel rod and most of it has already been tried.
What is left to discover is mostly a refinement of those known construction
methods and techniques. But ... that kind of talk here on the newsgroup seems
to get me into trouble so I will stop here.
William Lee < ... Appreciates Ted's answers.
"ted harris" <nada...@tedharris.com> wrote in message
news:%IZz9.26064$46.7667@fe01...
WilleeCue
I am still laughing at that one!
William Lee
"Hugh(LCS)" <rh...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:fEYz9.14238$6g.47...@news1.news.adelphia.net...
WilleeCue
"About what year did their work become good enough to call it a quality
product and how was that judged?"
But I thank you for taking the time to address the questions you did feel were
important.
William Lee
"Gordon Matheson" <GO...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:2Z_z9.16765$wF2....@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
Ninebal310
>Certinaly the ability to resist warpage over time is a desirable charactor in
>a
>cue but is it the only measure of quality?
>If you see one cue that is warped does that tell you that the cuemaker that
>made
>it did not know what he was doing and all his cues will warp?
>Questions ... questions ... questions ....
>
>Got any answers?
>
>William Lee
>
I'll put my theory in terms maybe some can understand.
Some doctors have practiced many years and have developed many
skills/techniques over those years. Those same doctors teach others the
skills/techniques they learned. So, what took the doctors many years to learn,
can be taught in a matter of minutes to the Interns.
Interns then take those skills/techniques and apply them and maybe even
improve on them. So, in my opinion, you may get a better "operation" from an
Intern than from an "experienced" doctor.
This don't hold true to all, but if no one improved on the skills/techniques
that were learned from experienced craftsmen, how would we progress in life?
There is ALWAYS a better way to do things. The smart man figures out the
way.
Hustlin' Hank
Joe Van
>This is where Jimbo started this bullshit by stating that I said that that I
>know 95% of all cue making knowledge.
>Is that what my words say?
As I said before and I won't change my opinion, your paragraph alone does not
say that. But in the context of the complete post, it does say that. I pointed
it out once, and will not repeat myself.
>You and Jimbo are the ones making a big deal over it and spining it into
>something it was never intended to be.<<
This is where we disagree, anyone reading the whole post, not just the
paragraph knows
exactly how it was intended. As I said before, you ALWAYS clip that part.
Besides in the thread it was posted there were more than just Jimbo and I, but
Jimbo and I are the only two debating it with you, here.
Joe
Joe Van
>What are you trying to say with that last sentence cause I really do not
>understand it.<<
Ok I will say it very slowly....`
>Your telling everyone its not ment for Willecues, when we all know it was.<<
Your bone of contention seems to be the fact you are saying your "paragraph"
wasn't ment for YOU and not towards YOUR cuemaking ability. Anyone reading the
whole post can see clearly that it was.
Get it now?
Joe
WilleeCue
I know 95% of all cue making knowledge.
what I said and what Jimbo quoted me as saying, but that is what makes great
debates. Besides what do we win even if you convince me or I convince you
otherwise?
You could never prove that my statments were untrue even if I had said that.
I will try to be more direct and legal like in my further converstaions with you
and more closly watch what I say.
William Lee < .... cuemaker, good - bad - or otherwise.
"Joe Van" <class...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021112091514...@mb-md.aol.com...
WilleeCue
the rest of the people on this planet.
Do you really think that I excluded myself?
The point is that I do not know 95% of all cue making knowledge as Jimbo tried
to stick on me as saying.
The key word is "All".
My intent was to state that anyone (including me) could ( you want to say I
cound not?) learn 95% ( want to disagree about the percentage like Jimbo?) of
what was needed to know about making a solid, quality pool cue in a short period
of time.
Why cant it stand just as I said it with out someone dissecting it and adding
extra words?
You think I am being "vague" and inferring with my posts . Boy Howdy .... that
never happens around here does it?
Who do you think I learned to do that kind of thing from and why do you think I
feel the need to do it?
You are eager to put whatever I post under the microscope and examine every word
for a hidden meaning or a different way to interpret it. Why are you turning a
blind eye when Jimbo does it ?
It dont really matter much in the big picture but I do wonder why you are just
picking on my posts to explain what I meant to say.
A good example is this very topic we are posting under.
Did you read the original post and Jimbo's reply when questioned about it?
I think you do not wish to treat you friend like you are treating me so you just
look the other way.
Here is something new ... We both know that knowledge is only half the
equation. (or do you?)
A person must posses the skill and ability to apply that knowledge.
Knowledge alone will not build the kind of pool cue we are talking about.
You need to roll up your sleeves and actually do it!
I have been there and done that, do it every day, and have the unbelieveable
gall to come here and say it is just not that hard to do!
You are a hard guy to pin down.
What exactly upset you about my post that started all this?
You have said that it did not offend you.
You have said that there were no untruths in it.
So .... what is the big problem here?
William Lee
"Joe Van" <class...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021112091815...@mb-md.aol.com...
Fred Agnir
>
> Learning about making a cue isn't rocket science. I am sure anybody with a
> little patience, reading skills, and the right tools can make a cue. How to
> make it pretty is an ART form that is open to interpretation.
>
> I would think that picking the right wood, the right curing techniques and
> how often to turn such wood is the MAIN factors in how it is going to "hit".
> Also, how fast it is going to warp. Other than that, it is just a piece of
> wood.
I don't think "art form" has anything to do with the recent
discussions. I think the second paragraph in of itself might be a
lifelong study. The few cues that I've worked with cuemakers on, each
has said a tidbit here and there that suggests that even though
they've been making cues for a while, they've spent years and years on
what works and what doesn't work. Things far beyond picking the right
wood and curing technique.
Fred
WilleeCue
Do you think that the things that took cuemakers years to discover would take
years to pass on to someone else or do you think that they could pass along that
information in a shorter period of time?
I think each cuemaker has his own way of doing things that may or may not be the
same identical way as another cuemakers might do it. Is there one cuemaker today
that did not have the benefit of information from someone else as to how to do
things?
I don't think so. They all studied the way things were done by others and then
did what best worked for them. A person wanting to learn how to make cues today
has more information available to him than ever before. They do not need to go
down that same road of trial and error reinventing the wheel. If they are smart
they will learn from the mistakes of others.
Could you offer just one of those "far beyond" tidbits of knowledge or are you
just guessing that they exist?
How many times are the cuemakers here on ASP going to need to say what the
"MAIN" factors governing "Hit" really are?
The have said it time and time again and it aint the wood or how it was cured!
William lee < ... Fred knows.
"Fred Agnir" <oha...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5447edcf.02111...@posting.google.com...
Jimbo Ct
>construction knowledge is known by today's cuemakers already and only a small
>fraction of it has yet to be discovered.
Can you please explain what this means, and also please explain who "Most of
todays cuemakers" are? Do you believe most of todays cuemakers all know the
same amount of knowledge? Are all cuemakers included in "todays cuemakers"?
Does the guy who's been doing repair work and building cues for 5 years and the
guy who bought a lathe and a video 6 months ago have the same knowledge? I
don't want to assume that what you wrote is what you meant so I'll give you a
chance to explain it to the guys who don't read so well. You keep claiming you
get into trouble yet the thing that may get you in trouble would be when you
group all cuemakers together and toss experience out the window.
Jim <-----Waiting to see howe willy will ignore this chance to explain himself
WilleeCue
I have tried in the past to explain things to you but you twist it around and
try to assault me with it.
It is like your Harley Davidson.
To those who don't ride one ..... you can not explain what it is like.
To those that do ride one ..... no explanation is necessary.
Now for the questions ......
Not exactly.
No, not the dead ones.
No.
Hope that answers your questions to your full expectations.
William Lee < ... not ignoring this chance to explain ... just saying "I
give up"!
"Jimbo Ct" <jim...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20021112165244...@mb-md.aol.com...
Jimbo Ct
>to stick on me
>percentage like Jimbo?
>when Jimbo does it
>and Jimbo's reply
Willy please stop with your obsession, in this post to JOE you mention me 4
times by name and 2 more references to me. Please get over me it's bordering on
stalking, I don't want to go to the police for help but if it's my last resort
I may have a restraining order slapped on you ;-)
Willy: >The point is that I do not know 95% of all cue making knowledge
No shit, but when you say you know 95% of what it takes it's vague and it
infers a different meaning, I asked you many times to explain and you chose not
to.
Willy: >The key word is "All".
No the key word is Making solid, quality, pool cue. You can learn 95% of how to
put a cue together, that doesn't mean it's solid, well built, quality, or a
good cue. You keep saying people pick on you for nothing but you continue to
have this attitude that you know how to do all these things. When you say
things like you did and add that the other 5% is for the masters it infers
other things, it infers that your cues are as good as Richard Blacks, but he
knows the 5% that makes his cues works of art. Your post inferred that if I
took a plain jane (no points, no inlays) cue from you and the same cue from
Richard Black that they would be the same. I asked you many times to explain
what you really meant and you didn't. Either you explain yourself or you open
yourself up to interpretation.
Willy: >My intent was to state that anyone (including me) could ( you want to
say I
>cound not?) learn 95% ( want to disagree about the percentage like Jimbo?) of
>what was needed to know about making a solid, quality pool cue in a short
>period
>of time.
And my intent was to point out that learning to put a cue together is only
about 20% of what it really takes to build cues. Big deal you can put a cue
together, that don't make you a cuemaker, and that's always been were we
differ, any kid in 9th grade wood shop can "PUT" a cue together the right way,
that doesn't make him a cue maker either. You just have a way of overstating
what you think you know, you thought you knew 95% of what it takes before you
even knew what a butt sleeve was, you thought you knew 95% before you ever
tried to do spliced points, how is it you knew 95% then and then learned new
things and you still only know 95%??
Willy: >Why cant it stand just as I said it with out someone dissecting it and
adding
>extra words?
Because some people read it different and when you had your chance to clear it
up you chose not to. As long as you chose to word things vaguely you'll leave
yourself open to interpretation, we all do.
Willy:
>why do you think I
>feel the need to do it?
Because you have no clue about what you are talking about and you figure if you
make it vague it'll be easier to back out of when you are proven wrong. I think
it's a good idea if you use it right, but now that you do it on every post
we've all caught on. I particularly love when you posted to the layered tip
thread saying using a utility knife wasn't advisable and then when you saw
everyone else used one it was your advice 5 posts later, that was classic.
Willy: >You are eager to put whatever I post under the microscope and examine
every
>word
>for a hidden meaning or a different way to interpret it.
Nobody gives a crap what a piss-ant wannabe know nothing apprentice cuemaker
says. This is all in your head, in your need for acceptance and attention you
feel a need to post like a seasoned veteran and this is what brings attention
to your posts. Maybe if you started posting within your knowledge instead of
your know it all style nobdy would question you. It's ok to not know something,
it's ok to let a thread go by once in a while.
Willy: >A good example is this very topic we are posting under.
>Did you read the original post and Jimbo's reply when questioned about it?
You're right, it's a good example of the opposite of what you are saying, you
don't want anyone to read more into what you write, yet you feel fine doing it
to me. I could sound just like you and say I never meant that. Or I didn't
write that. Everyone (well almost) here knew what I wrote and why and I got all
the right answers. The same way everyone got what you wrote yet you don't want
them twisting it around, so I say to you why are you here twisting around what
I wrote? Why do you feel a need to post on a thread about an operation?? Are
you doing what you claim everyone else does to you?? Poor , Poor Willy.
Willy: >I think you do not wish to treat you friend like you are treating me so
you
>just
>look the other way.
>
This happens all the time get used to it Willy. You don't have any trouble when
your little JimBo fan club comes to your aid. The difference is Joe thinks for
himself, when he doesn't agree he shuts up, when he does he posts. Fools like
Hugh,Hank,Jack, and now Donald will attack whenever they see my name, even if
they don't agree or have anything to say. I like it, makes me feel good when it
takes 5 fools to try and prove me wrong, it also makes me feel good to know all
of you working together have yet to do it.
Willy: >We both know that knowledge is only half the
>equation. (or do you?)
There you go doing it again, you just love to try and put yourself on equal
ground with someone. How do you know what Joe knows? And why do you feel a need
to be condescending with your (or do you?) at the end. Don't try to give
yourself credibility by grouping yourself with anyone else, earn your respect
with your work not by trying to out talk everyone. If you do have any skill in
making cues it'll come out with the cues not with your posts, post less work on
learning to make cues more.
Willy: >A person must posses the skill and ability to apply that knowledge.
>Knowledge alone will not build the kind of pool cue we are talking about.
You're right, but you leave out the most important part. What about EXPERIENCE?
From your posts you'd have one believe that all you need is the knowledge and a
few hours at a lathe. Do you believe a person who has been at it for 6 months
is as good or better then someone who has been at it for 6 years??
Willy: >I have been there and done that, do it every day, and have the
unbelieveable
>gall to come here and say it is just not that hard to do!
No the trouble is you believe you have been there and done that, you believed
you had been there and done that 3 months ago, you probably thought you had
been there and done that after week 2 of owning your first lathe. What about
EXPERIENCE? You do have gall, but it's the gall to think EXPERIENCE doesn't
mean shit.
Jim <---Knowing 95% of how to put a cue together don't mean shit when your
talking about cuemaking IMO of course.
Ninebal310
>I don't think "art form" has anything to do with the recent
>discussions. I think the second paragraph in of itself might be a
>lifelong study. The few cues that I've worked with cuemakers on, each
>has said a tidbit here and there that suggests that even though
>they've been making cues for a while, they've spent years and years on
>what works and what doesn't work. Things far beyond picking the right
>wood and curing technique.
>
>Fred
>
Hi Fred,
Will you agree that not all cues are the same? I thought you would. Would
you agree that everybody has a different taste in what they like about cues?
Would you agree that some "think" that a wood to wood joint is better than
Stainless Steel? Do you agree that cue makers pass on what they learn? Isn't it
really a matter of what the shooter likes?
No one can say that Mr. Jones cues are better or worse than Mr. Smiths
cues. The only thing they can say is: Mr. Jones cues sell for more than Mr.
Smiths cues, or Mr. Smiths cues have a better resale value. Other than that,
everything else is subjective.
I am sure there are cue makers that say " I do this special little thing
that no other cue makers do". But what does that really mean? NOTHING! Except
to the person buying his cue.
Now, if a cue maker told me that he guanantees his stick not to warp or
crack after 2 years, that IS saying something. Do any of them do that? I don't
think so.
I know people that love their Predator shaft (I'm sure you do too), does
that make it better? No. I know people that have had Predator shafts that hate
them. Does that make them bad? Of course not.
To me, anybody's opinion on cues is just that, an opinion, and we all know
what opinions are like.
Hustlin' Hank
Ninebal310
>construction knowledge is known by today's cuemakers already and only a
>small
>fraction of it has yet to be discovered.
I agree, but then I understand what you are saying because I know how to
read.
It is the same with ALL skills. The skills/techniques/procedures are easy to
come by with todays technology of Videos, Internet, TV and such.
The lessons learned by firefighters in the WTC disaster were passed on to
other Firefighters around the world. Did the NYFD know these before the
disaster? Hell no. If they did, they wouldn't have lost so many lives.
Engineers that built the buildings learned a lot and passed on the new
gained knowledge to other engineers around the world. It was a learning
experience for many.
You don't have to expain yourself, most of us understand.
Hustlin' Hank
Jimbo Ct
Bad is Bad, the cue may warp in a year, it may have a buzz or a rattle that
developes after some time of playing, it may just hit like shit. You keep
refering to different people likeing a different hit, but I have never seen a
person tell a cuemaker his cue hit like shit. People just aren't that honest
(I'm sure I must have done it at some point) fact is it's easier to say it's
not to my likeing then to tell him it sucks. So to say some people like it
means nothing unless they are paying good money for it. I said good money
because people will buy a cue if it's cheap even if they don't like the hit.
Willy: >No one sets out to learn to build (make) bad cues
>They want to learn to build (make) good well built cues.
The fact is you LEARN to build cues early on (no percentages) over time you
learn to change things and improve things with experience. If you have no idea
about playing or what effects changes will have on the cue you'll never make
it. You can put cues together all you want but untill you learn about woods and
cues it don't mean shit.
Willy: >cause you have implied over and over you
>cant learn it from tapes and books.
Willy why try to twist things this bad? It's always been you who claims it's
not hard and experience means nothing. It was you who claimed you can learn
from books and videos, not me. You can never show where I claimed this and
you'll never try because you know you just made it up. You are the one who said
building cues isn't hard and all the knowledge was in books and videos, I own
the same books and videos you own I've built a cue, if I were you I'd be making
idiotic claims about being a cuemaker. You're always claiming I lied and you
never give proof now you're saying I said things that you've said and with no
proof, your a fool with bad memory. I don't need to brag and post pictures of
cues I've made pictures don't prove anything. Just to clear things up
You say: You can learn it quickly from books and videos, and it's not hard.
Me: It takes time and experience to build quality.
You: Build 1 cue and you're a cuemaker
Me: You need to put time in building cues over years to see if they are quality
before you call yourself a cuemaker.
Got it???
Jim <---In a month he'll have my opinions down as his own.
Jimbo Ct
that.
>I will try to be more direct and legal like in my further converstaions
said?? Why do you keep on saying that isn't what I said or I didn't mean it
that way while copying the same text, just spell it out, just tell us what you
meant by it. Put it i other words so that we may understand it. Why when after
I asked 10 times now for you to explain it do you still choose to ignore me?
Why not just tell us what you really meant?
Jim <------Do you know what you meant, or do you just know it's not what we
read?
WilleeCue
"Jimbo Ct" <jim...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
>
>
> Willy please stop with your obsession, in this post to JOE you mention me 4
> times by name and 2 more references to me. Please get over me it's bordering
on
> stalking, I don't want to go to the police for help but if it's my last resort
> I may have a restraining order slapped on you ;-)
That is becaues you are the one that is attacking me so often.
You stop it now and I will stop when I think I am even.
>
> Willy: >The point is that I do not know 95% of all cue making knowledge
>
> No shit, but when you say you know 95% of what it takes it's vague and it
> infers a different meaning, I asked you many times to explain and you chose
not
> to.
Just like your posts, Huh Jimbo?
I have explained it. You just refuse to acknowledge it.
> Willy: >The key word is "All".
>
> No the key word is Making solid, quality, pool cue.
Jimbo, that is more than one word.
>You can learn 95% of how to
> put a cue together, that doesn't mean it's solid, well built, quality, or a
> good cue.
Again you add your own words and say they are mine.
That is not what I said and you keep trying to twist it into something you can
argue against.
>You keep saying people pick on you for nothing but you continue to
> have this attitude that you know how to do all these things.
This is a good example that you continue to pick on me.
Would you explain what "all these things" are?
>When you say
> things like you did and add that the other 5% is for the masters it infers
> other things, it infers that your cues are as good as Richard Blacks, but he
> knows the 5% that makes his cues works of art.
So now you know what percentages the masters know and don't know.
Or did you call and ask him.
What a work you are, Jimbo.
For the record If I thought I could make a cue as good as Richard Black I would
not have time to post here just as he does not.
Please note that the word "good" as used in the above sentence encompasses the
entire Richard Black quality and not just hit or playability.
>Your post inferred that if I
> took a plain jane (no points, no inlays) cue from you and the same cue from
> Richard Black that they would be the same.
No Jimbo, one would be a Richard Black and the other would be a WilleeCue.
No wonder you have a hard time undsersanding what is being said here.
>I asked you many times to explain
> what you really meant and you didn't. Either you explain yourself or you open
> yourself up to interpretation.
That is your inturpetation of it and a wrong one I might add.
> Willy: >My intent was to state that anyone (including me) could ( you want to
> say I
> >cound not?) learn 95% ( want to disagree about the percentage like Jimbo?) of
> >what was needed to know about making a solid, quality pool cue in a short
> >period
> >of time.
>
> And my intent was to point out that learning to put a cue together is only
> about 20% of what it really takes to build cues.
So tell us oh great one that has never made a cue on his own.
Just what is the rest you seem to know so much about?
>Big deal you can put a cue
> together, that don't make you a cuemaker,
LOL ... You are the one making a big deal out of it all.
I can put a solid hitting quality cue together and that makes me a cuemaker.
>and that's always been were we
> differ, any kid in 9th grade wood shop can "PUT" a cue together the right way,
> that doesn't make him a cue maker either.
Then what does it make him?
A golf club maker?
>You just have a way of overstating
> what you think you know, you thought you knew 95% of what it takes before you
> even knew what a butt sleeve was,
Again ... how do you know so much about making a cue, having never done it.
I do it every day.
>you thought you knew 95% before you ever
> tried to do spliced points,
Now where did I ever say that?
You just do not give it up, do you?
That is why I call you Bimbo cause you are as stubborn as an airheaded blond.
Note that I did not say "all" blonds were airheads.
>how is it you knew 95% then and then learned new
> things and you still only know 95%??
Then???
When was then?
Show me a post where I gave percentaged BEFORE last month.
Put up or shut up, Bimbo.
> Willy: >Why cant it stand just as I said it with out someone dissecting it
and
> adding
> >extra words?
>
> Because some people read it different and when you had your chance to clear it
> up you chose not to. As long as you chose to word things vaguely you'll leave
> yourself open to interpretation, we all do.
>
> Willy:
>
> >why do you think I
> >feel the need to do it?
>
> Because you have no clue about what you are talking about and you figure if
you
> make it vague it'll be easier to back out of when you are proven wrong. I
think
> it's a good idea if you use it right, but now that you do it on every post
> we've all caught on. I particularly love when you posted to the layered tip
> thread saying using a utility knife wasn't advisable and then when you saw
> everyone else used one it was your advice 5 posts later, that was classic.
>
> Willy: >You are eager to put whatever I post under the microscope and examine
> every
> >word
> >for a hidden meaning or a different way to interpret it.
Did I say that to you or someone else.
See ... there you go again quoting me as if I said that to you and you know very
well I did not.
It was said to someone else not you!
>
> Nobody gives a crap what a piss-ant
Now where did you ever come up with that word "Piss-Ant"?
>wannabe know nothing apprentice cuemaker
> says. This is all in your head, in your need for acceptance and attention you
> feel a need to post like a seasoned veteran and this is what brings attention
> to your posts. Maybe if you started posting within your knowledge instead of
> your know it all style nobdy would question you. It's ok to not know
something,
> it's ok to let a thread go by once in a while.
Thank you Doctor Bimbo, a cuemaker and a doctor as well you should quit your job
as a beerslinger.
>
> Willy: >A good example is this very topic we are posting under.
> >Did you read the original post and Jimbo's reply when questioned about it?
Bimbo, why are you quoting what I said to someone else as if I said it to you?
Are you in need of attention?
> You're right, it's a good example of the opposite of what you are saying, you
> don't want anyone to read more into what you write, yet you feel fine doing it
> to me. I could sound just like you and say I never meant that. Or I didn't
> write that. Everyone (well almost) here knew what I wrote and why and I got
all
> the right answers. The same way everyone got what you wrote yet you don't want
> them twisting it around, so I say to you why are you here twisting around what
> I wrote? Why do you feel a need to post on a thread about an operation?? Are
> you doing what you claim everyone else does to you?? Poor , Poor Willy.
Yada yada yada ... more drivel ... it is past boring at this point and I feel
sorry for anyone still reading this crap.
>> Willy: >I think you do not wish to treat you friend like you are treating me
so
>> you just look the other way.
> This happens all the time get used to it Willy.
So you admit Joe is doing exactly what I said .... interesting.
What about that, Joe, is Bimbo speaking for you now?
>You don't have any trouble when
> your little JimBo fan club comes to your aid.
If they are a Jimbo fan club why would they come to my aid?
>The difference is Joe thinks for
> himself,
But lets you speak for him?
>when he doesn't agree he shuts up,
What ????
You saying his posts were in agrement with me???
>when he does he posts.
Again ... his posts agreed with me???
>Fools like
> Hugh,Hank,Jack, and now Donald will attack whenever they see my name, even if
> they don't agree or have anything to say.
Talk about a fool ... see above coments by Bimbo, the foolish faux cuemaker.
>I like it, makes me feel good when it
> takes 5 fools to try and prove me wrong, it also makes me feel good to know
all
> of you working together have yet to do it.
It is just too easy ...
It only takes one fool to prove Bimbo wrong .... Bimbo himself.
> Willy: >We both know that knowledge is only half the
> >equation. (or do you?)
>
> There you go doing it again, you just love to try and put yourself on equal
> ground with someone. How do you know what Joe knows?
I dont really .. Jimbo... I was just guessing .... that is why I asked him.
However, you seem to think you know what I know ... how's that work?
>And why do you feel a need
> to be condescending with your (or do you?) at the end. Don't try to give
> yourself credibility by grouping yourself with anyone else, earn your respect
> with your work not by trying to out talk everyone.
Like you?
That is a real gem of advise coming from you.
Jus proves again what a hypocrite you are.
>If you do have any skill in
> making cues it'll come out with the cues not with your posts,
So how many cues of mine have you seen or even got to touch?
ZERO!
How many cues of yours has anyone seen?
ZERO
Where is YOUR EXPERIENCE you keep harping on and on about?
>post less work on
> learning to make cues more.
Thank you.
> Willy: >A person must posses the skill and ability to apply that knowledge.
> >Knowledge alone will not build the kind of pool cue we are talking about.
>
> You're right, but you leave out the most important part. What about
EXPERIENCE?
> From your posts you'd have one believe that all you need is the knowledge and
a
> few hours at a lathe.
No ... you would have "one" believe that and that is what you are trying to
prove with all this harassment.
If you can establish that you might have an argument ... but you cant do it ...
can you?
Know why .... cause it aint the truth and nobody except you would believe such a
silly ass statement.
>Do you believe a person who has been at it for 6 months
> is as good or better then someone who has been at it for 6 years??
Perhaps, it is possible. But you might need to explain what you mean by "at it".
I would need to examine the work before I passed judgment and started a slander
campaign against anyone.
> Willy: >I have been there and done that, do it every day, and have the
> >unbelieveable
> >gall to come here and say it is just not that hard to do!
>
> No the trouble is you believe you have been there and done that,
Yes ... now you got it.
I believe that because it is true.
>you believed
> you had been there and done that 3 months ago,
Hey .. guess what ... you are right again.
>you probably thought you had
> been there and done that after week 2 of owning your first lathe.
Nope ... here you are getting a bit over the line.
>What about
> EXPERIENCE? You do have gall, but it's the gall to think EXPERIENCE doesn't
> mean shit.
Those are you words again, Bimbo.
I have enough EXPERIENCE to do what I say I can do.
Prove otherwise, oh great one, or shut up about it.
> Jim <---Knowing 95% of how to put a cue together don't mean shit when your
> talking about cuemaking IMO of course.
Yes ... in YOUR opinion .... and that says it all.
William Lee < ... cuemaker boy wonder .... LOL.
Jimbo Ct
Willy: >Were the cues that they made the first year of their carrer any less
quality
>that the ones they make now?
Of course they were you idiot, just ask any of them. Shit just look at your own
work, each cue you make should be a bit better then the last. Isn't this stuff
common sense to you?
Willy: >Are the cues they make now better than the ones they made 5 or 10 years
ago?
I'd say different, not necessarily better, but what do you mean by better? My
guess is most cuemakers who have been at it in the last 10 years have changed
the way they build cues considerably over the last 7-8 years.
Willy: >If we go with conventional opinion that it takes many years to learn
how to
>make
>a cue correctly
No, once again you show your lack of reading comprehension. You can learn to
build (put together) one in a short time, but to make a good one that hits
good, will last and not warp and stands up to the years of playing it's
designed for takes time. Anyone can put on a leather wrap but it takes years to
do a good one, anyone can finish a cue but it takes years to learn the
technique to do a good finish, and so on and so on, the list goes on and on and
that's what makes a good cue.
All you have to do is ask yourself those questions willy, I can tell the
answers just from looking, but here goes.
Do you feel the first cue you made was as good as the ebony one you just posted
pictures of ???
Now an honest answer proves me right or you can lie and try to save face. Which
will we get?
Jim <----Ignored is my guess.
Jimbo Ct
>you sent a couple of cues on a asp/rsb review tour?
It's been brought up before, he declined.
Jim <---It's a good idea
Jimbo Ct
what the
>"MAIN" factors governing "Hit" really are?
>The have said it time and time again and it aint the wood or how it was
>cured!
The next time may be the first, can you provide a link to a thread where "the
cuemakers here on ASP" discussed the main factors governing hit is?? Can you
tell me what cuemakers here were in on it and also can you tell us what you,
with all your experience has come up with as your own theory for hit. Also
please tell us what you know about the wood you use other then what you've read
about it on the e-bay auctions in which you bought it in told you. Keep hinting
at things without saying anything willy it suites you well.
Jim<--------Answer or ignore, what will it be?
Jim Wyant
"Jimbo Ct" <jim...@aol.comnojunk> wrote:
I offered to give him my credit card info and if it wasn't returned in 30
days in perfect condition I owned it. He seemed highly resistant to even
considering this, seeming to believe I was an enemy with an axe to grind and
he didn't need or want my opinion. IOW, buy it, feel unseen.
--Jim
WilleeCue
"Jimbo Ct" <jim...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
> Willy: > but I would ask that you explain what you mean by bad?
>
> Bad is Bad, the cue may warp in a year, it may have a buzz or a rattle that
> developes after some time of playing, it may just hit like shit.
Are you saying that none of the cuemakers you respect so much with years and
years of experience, have ever had a shaft warp, a cue that developed a rattle
or buzz, or one that hit like shit ( whatever the hell that means) ???? Never???
ever ever??
>You keep
> refering to different people likeing a different hit, but I have never seen a
> person tell a cuemaker his cue hit like shit.
I am sure you haven't.
How could you be privileged to every conversation between client and cuemaker.
>People just aren't that honest
> (I'm sure I must have done it at some point)
Contradicting yourself so soon?
>fact is it's easier to say it's
> not to my likeing then to tell him it sucks. So to say some people like it
> means nothing unless they are paying good money for it. I said good money
> because people will buy a cue if it's cheap even if they don't like the hit.
>
> Willy: >No one sets out to learn to build (make) bad cues
> >They want to learn to build (make) good well built cues.
>
> The fact is you LEARN to build cues early on (no percentages) over time you
> learn to change things and improve things with experience.
No shit sherlock ... what do you think I have been saying for so long?
>If you have no idea
> about playing or what effects changes will have on the cue you'll never make
> it.
Make what?
>You can put cues together all you want but untill you learn about woods and
> cues it don't mean shit.
Of course you know all about woods .... right ... having put so many cues
together yourself.
(sarcasm)
> Willy: >cause you have implied over and over you
> >cant learn it from tapes and books.
>
> Willy why try to twist things this bad? It's always been you who claims it's
> not hard and experience means nothing.
Twisting ... Just enough truth there to make it seeam believable .... please
prove that I have ever said "experience means nothing".
If you are trying to say that I did say that then you are an outright liar.
> It was you who claimed you can learn
> from books and videos, not me.
Yes I did and you put me down for it too ... remember?
>You can never show where I claimed this and
> you'll never try because you know you just made it up.
Claimed what?
That you learned from books and videos ???
Why would I do that?
Again you twist it around.
>You are the one who said
> building cues isn't hard and all the knowledge was in books and videos,
I still say it and it is still true.
How dense can you be, Bimbo?
>I own
> the same books and videos you own
I doubt that .. please tell me oh great one, what ones do you own?
Better yet tell me all the ones I own.
>I've built a cue,
At his shop and on his equipment and lots of step by step help from the
cuemaker.
I did it, and am doing it every day, without the benefit of having someone
standing there telling me what to do next.
I don't suppose you can see the difference.
>if I were you I'd be making
> idiotic claims about being a cuemaker.
But ... you are not me so quit trying to speak for me.
>You're always claiming I lied and you
> never give proof now you're saying I said things that you've said and with no
> proof, your a fool with bad memory. I don't need to brag and post pictures of
> cues I've made pictures don't prove anything. Just to clear things up
Cues ... as if you assembled more than one?? LOL
>
> You say: You can learn it quickly from books and videos, and it's not hard.
Yep that is what I say.
> Me: It takes time and experience to build quality.
Hey ... we agree.
We just cant agree on how much time and experience it takes.
> You: Build 1 cue and you're a cuemaker
Now that is a fact especially if you keep doing it day after day and are making
them from raw materials like I do.
> Me: You need to put time in building cues over years to see if they are
quality
> before you call yourself a cuemaker.
On warp and all those years shot to hell ... right Bimbo?
> Got it???
Not you way ... but I got it.
> Jim <---In a month he'll have my opinions down as his own.
Huh ... you need to explain that one, Bimbo.
William Lee < ... cuemaker cause he makes cues.
WilleeCue
quoting me like I am talking to you, asking the same questions that I have
answered more than once, speaking for the other person, and acting like a
stalker?
William lee < ... its all an act ..... we really like each other, folks.
"Jimbo Ct" <jim...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20021112195002...@mb-md.aol.com...
WilleeCue
"Jimbo Ct" <jim...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
>
> Willy: >Were the cues that they made the first year of their carrer any less
> quality
> >that the ones they make now?
>
> Of course they were you idiot, just ask any of them. Shit just look at your
own
> work, each cue you make should be a bit better then the last. Isn't this stuff
> common sense to you?
I was asking the question of someone else, not you, Bimbo.
Why do you feel the need to jump in and call me names?
Didn't some one once say:
"Jack I abhor liars, name calling is fine with me. I've always found that when
people can't make a point or put forth an intelligent argument they always turn
to name calling. It kinda makes me feel good when the name calling starts from
the beginning, it validates that they understand what I am saying and just
can't come up with anything good". JimboCT 11/04/02
Tap, Tap, Tap!
Enough said about that.
> Willy: >Are the cues they make now better than the ones they made 5 or 10
years
> ago?
>
> I'd say different, not necessarily better,
Contradicting your last statment so soon, Bimbo?
Some good cuemakers have been making good cues for less than 10 years.
>but what do you mean by better? My
> guess is most cuemakers who have been at it in the last 10 years have changed
> the way they build cues considerably over the last 7-8 years.
>
> Willy: >If we go with conventional opinion that it takes many years to learn
> how to
> >make
> >a cue correctly
>
> No, once again you show your lack of reading comprehension. You can learn to
> build (put together) one in a short time, but to make a good one that hits
> good, will last and not warp and stands up to the years of playing it's
> designed for takes time. Anyone can put on a leather wrap but it takes years
to
> do a good one,
I have not tried to do a leather wrap yet, so I would not know about that.
>anyone can finish a cue but it takes years to learn the
> technique to do a good finish,
It took me about 3 months to learn to do it.
Finding the right finish material and polishing compounds was the big problem
but with the help of some of my cuemaking friends who were willing to share
information I finally got it. BTY: I have seen high dollar cues from big name
cuemakers that had flaws in the finish.
How do you explain that? Flaws in cues from cuemakers with years of experience.
Jimbo, I would be willing to bet that the cue I posted the photo of just last
week as one of the first cues I built from raw materials would be good enough to
get me entrance into the American Cuemakers Assocation. Wanta bet big??
>and so on and so on, the list goes on and on and
> that's what makes a good cue.
> All you have to do is ask yourself those questions willy, I can tell the
> answers just from looking, but here goes.
>
> Do you feel the first cue you made was as good as the ebony one you just
posted
> pictures of ???
Nope ... this one is much better in many ways.
My very first cue made from a house stick was an expermental piece of shit that
was thrown away.
I did not have a live cuemaker standing beside me to show me every step of the
way like you did.
I had to figure it out from a video but .... anyone could do it.
And .... That makes MY point.
> Now an honest answer proves me right
Right about what?
>or you can lie and try to save face. Which
> will we get?
>
> Jim <----Ignored is my guess.
Wrong guess, Bimbo.
William Lee
WilleeCue
selling, or get some time to build a cue that I can send off for testing and
aproval, I will consider it. Right now I make them one at a time and only about
two a month. I am also teaching others to make cues in my shop so you can see
that things are busy here. My cues are selling good down here and I can always
use the money.
William Lee
"Jimbo Ct" <jim...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20021112201647...@mb-md.aol.com...
WilleeCue
William Lee
"Jimbo Ct" <jim...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20021112202835...@mb-md.aol.com...
WilleeCue
I have since learned otherwise.
You still want to make that offer?
I do not take credit cards but I will offer you this deal.
Did you see the cue with the four veneered points and diamonds in the butt that
I posted today?
You also seen the cost breakdown? $400 will get it shiped to you and if you dont
feel it is worth that after you get it send it back for a full refund. One more
thing .... If you decide to keep it I offer you the same garentee as everyone
else I sell to.
Everything except the tip is garenteed for the life of the original owner.
William Lee
361-986-9617
"Jim Wyant" <jwy...@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message
news:B9F7163E.8121%jwy...@columbus.rr.com...
Smorgass Bored
Everything except the tip is garenteed for the life of the original
owner.
(*<~ Aha, I knew there was a catch.
Doug
~>*(((>< Big fish eat Little fish ><)))*<~
Jim Wyant
yQiA9.344553$121.9...@twister.austin.rr.com, "WilleeCue"
<n5...@stx.rr.com> wrote:
> You are right, Jim, I did suspect you then.
> I have since learned otherwise.
> You still want to make that offer?
> I do not take credit cards but I will offer you this deal.
> Did you see the cue with the four veneered points and diamonds in the butt
> that
> I posted today?
> You also seen the cost breakdown? $400 will get it shiped to you and if you
> dont
> feel it is worth that after you get it send it back for a full refund. One
> more
> thing .... If you decide to keep it I offer you the same garentee as everyone
> else I sell to.
> Everything except the tip is garenteed for the life of the original owner.
>
> William Lee
> 361-986-9617
Sorry you didn't feel my offer was sincere back then. In all honesty, I
would have liked to have tried it out at that time. Personally (and I know
this is akin to blasphemy to the cue makers) I really don't care much about
the artistic efforts of a cue, I'm really only concerned with the hit and
feel.
I did buy a Layani ($450) which has incredible feel and am very happy with
the all Purpleheart butt (at least I was till I found out JimboCT has a
Purpleheart penchant as well ~grin~). I later requested and got the first
Predator shaft that Thierry made ($250). I am immensely pleased with my
Layani and as such I'm not really motivated to play in the game at this
time.
Hopefully I'll be in a place sometime where someone has one of your cues and
I can give one a try.
--Jim--> PS: Get yourself on PayPal and you can accept credit cards.
WilleeCue
Every big fish knows that!
William Lee
"Smorgass Bored" <Smorga...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:29507-3D...@storefull-2315.public.lawson.webtv.net...
WilleeCue
You like what you like, simple as that, no explanation needed.
I too have a $450 Layani cue.
They are nice aren't they.
I keep nudging Thierry to make that joint or something like it available to
other cuemakers.
It is a killer joint system and would be a great option to offer on a cue.
William Lee
"Jim Wyant" <jwy...@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message
news:B9F74651.81C0%jwy...@columbus.rr.com...