How to repair leaky Fafco Revolution solar heating panels for your pool

[Arklin K.]

[b]This is a DIY for how to fix hundreds of holes in the very expensive
Fafco Revolution solar heating panels.[/b]

Many lessons learned are in this DIY ... which I believe are nowhere else
on the web.

I write this so that YOU have the information that I never had, when I
started this quest four years ago to fix my Fafco Revolution solar
heating panels.

Good luck and - please improve with suggestions - as I still haven't
found a good supplier for the plugs used in this DIY.

[b]History:[/b]
- My solar heating panel installation was designed & installed by Poco
Solar at 3345 Keller Street Santa Clara (408-970-0680) about 10 years ago.
- They are the only Fafco authorized dealer anywhere near me, according
to Fafco (http://www.fafco.com/find_dealer/default.aspx)
- They are warranted for 10 years, to the original owner only (http://
www.fafco.com/shw/faq.aspx).
- I bought the house about 4 years ago, and this problem has been going
on since then (and clearly before then).
- The 13 four-feet wide twelve-foot long panels are 15 feet below the
pool (http://www.fafco.com/files/06836C_Pool%20Owners%
20Manual_10-28-09.pdf)
- They're 'drained' each winter by opening the only drain Poco solar
installed and shutting off the three "Jandy" valves provided.
- This is in accordance with the Fafco factory winterizing instructions
at http://www.fafco.com/sph/faq.aspx
- Yet, each time I start up the solar heating system, fifty (or so)
leaks occur; and another dozen or so occur during the summer.
- Each and every leak (mostly pinholes) is at the weak-spot 'whorl'
pressed into the Fafco Revolution solar heating panels.
- Prices for a new Fafco Revolution solar heating panel were quoted by
Poco solar as $528 + ~10% tax.
- The Fafco Sunsaver solar heating panels are the same thing, but
without the weak whorl, at $370 + ~10% tax.
- Obviously, the first tip to you, the reader, is save yourself ~$175
per panel by NOT buying the one with the weak whorl.
- The salesman will swear the 'whorl' gives you better heating because it
'spins' the water in the tube.
- Personally, I think the whorl is pressed into the tube and it is badly
designed such that it becomes THE weakest point in the entire system!
- The second tip is to buy a $45 Fafco repair kit with 20 repair plugs
to disable each tube as it springs a leak at the whorl
- You really need the EXACT shape of the chisel gouge that comes with the
kit; and the allen-head pusher is just the right size (an allen wrench
hurts your hands more)
- And, before some smart aleck suggest gluing the pinholes, make sure
you've tried it first.
- You can try all the glues you want (I've tried at least a half dozen);
they all fail ... at least they all failed me. YMMV.
- What I do is what Fafco recommends which is to just disable any tube
that leaks (about 50 tubes per year!)
- It takes a minimum of 2 and sometimes 4 plugs to disable a single tube
(so you need at least 100 plugs for starters)
- The Fafco plugs are of soft rubber of a width of 1/4" tapered to a
smidge over 1/8"; length barely over 7/8" with a hole in the large end
- The official repair option is to buy 100 repair plugs at $0.54 each
(+~10% tax) from the dealer.
- These are the perfect length to go in smoothly - and they have a hole
in them to keep the plug from bunching up like an inchworm
- However, at 50 pinholes per year and over 54 cents per plug and with
two to four plugs per pinhole, the Fafco plugs get expensive!
- I found similar plugs at [url=http://www.mcmaster.com/#tapered-rubber-
plugs/=idrxdo]McMaster Carr[/url] & [url=http://www.widgetco.com/000000-
rubber-stoppers-plugs]WidgetCo[/url] for about $.09 each, plus 10% tax +
about $5 shipping
- The WidgetCo part number is 7-R000000-EPDM-RS and the cost is $39.00
for 100 tapered rubber stoppers (1/4x1/8x3/4 EPDM)
- The McMaster-Carr part number is "6448K88" and the cost is $8.46 for
100 tapered rubber stoppers (1/4x1/8x3/4 EPDM)
- McMaster-Carr actually gets their plugs from RubberDynamics.com, PN
TPE0250-0750, which sells for $5.00 for 100 stoppers (1/4x1/8x3/4 EPDM)
- The only problem with RubberDynamics is you have to buy 10 packs of 100
wherease McMaster-Carr will sell one pack of 100.
- These EPDM plugs are just as wide (1/4") and tapered just as small
(1/8") but they're shorter at 3/4" & they don't have the hole in the
large end
- [b]I have not yet found on the net a tapered rubber stopper that is the
same dimensions yet longer at 7/8" (if you know of any, let me know!)[/b]
- You 'could' easily melt a hole in the end by heating a small allen
wrench and shoving it into the rubber - but I found it wasn't really
necessary.
- If you use the Fafco repair kit, you do not need any other special
tools - although dish detergent & an 1/8" round 'tool' are useful when
using the suggested rubber stoppers (which are shorter and don't have the
extra hole).

Here is a picture of the $45 Fafco solar heating panel repair kit (the
shampoo lubricant and the red case are my additions):
[attachment=2]fafco_repair_kit.jpg[/attachment]

100 plugs from the dealer is $54.00 + ~10% tax; the closest/cheapest I
found is TPE0250-0750 from Rubber Dynamics at $5.00 for 100 plugs:
[img]http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/8713936/640/8713936.png[/img]

Here is what the panels look like when they're dry (notice the water
stains, each one of which is a recent leak):
[attachment=1]fafco_solar_panels_leak.JPG[/attachment]

There are perhaps 50 or more pinholes like these, all of which are at the
weak-point 'whorl' specific to the Fafco Revolution panels.
Notice the many varied attempts at glue, epoxy, and rubber cement. Don't
even think about gluing these panels. It just doesn't work.
[attachment=0]DSC_6104.JPG[/attachment]

Here's another pinhole, again, always at the whorl of the Fafco
Revolution solar heating panels:
[img]http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/8713867/640/8713867.jpg[/img]

I could go on and on, but you get the point. Each whorl of the Fafco
Revolution panel is an obvious weak spot:
[img]http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/8713876/640/8713876.jpg[/img]

To "winterize" these panels Fafco recommends you shut off the three Jandy-
style valves to the panels:
[img]http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/8713912/640/8713912.jpg[/img]

And that you open the one and only faucet drain which is situated at the
lowest point in the panel arrangement:
[img]http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/8713894/640/8713894.jpg[/img]

But it really won't help. The pinholes occur due to the manufacturing
process creating a weak point in the Revolution panels, which is bound to
leak, sooner or later in thousands upon thousands of potential locations.
It's just bad engineering and bad design and bad manufacturing. Of
course, it doesn't help that my panels are 15 feet below the pool, so add
to all that bad factory stuff a badly designed installation. Oh well. It
is what it is.

Moving on to the DIY, your first task is optional, which is to melt a
hole in the large end of the plug with an allen wrench on your BBQ:
[img]http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/8713996/640/8713996.jpg[/img]

Then, you need to figure out which tube is leaking, which is difficult in
some cases because of the location of the pinhole at the crease.
After cutting a few wrong tubes, I learned a neat simple trick.
Simply press on the two tube adjacent to the pinhole with a 1/8 inch
flathead screwdriver:
[img]http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/8714006/640/8714006.jpg[/img]

When you press on the tube that has the pinhole, the water spray will
momentarily stop:
[img]http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/8714012/640/8714012.jpg[/img]

Now you have to shut off the water because THIS is what happens if you
don't shut off the water (you just can't work under pressure):
[img]http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/8714020/640/8714020.jpg[/img]

But wait! BEFORE you shut off the water, you have to MARK the location of
the many pinholes.
Trust me, I've tried lots of methods, one of which was whiteout, which
does NOT work (because everything is soaking wet after a while).
[img]http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/8714050/640/8714050.jpg[/img]

The best I've found to mark the holes are nails. Yup. Stick nails exactly
at the location of the pinhole while the pressure is in the solar heating
tubes:
[img]http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/8714056/640/8714056.jpg[/img]

Personally, I wait a day for the panels to dry out (the less you wait,
the wetter you will be - but you'll be soaked before the job is done
nonetheless).

You'll notice it's now the next day, and the panels are as dry as they're
gonna get.

I've gathered my kit (which is in an old grade-school lunchbox because
individual tools will slide all over the sloped slippery panels if you
don't keep it all together and you and the toolkit will be soaking wet by
the time you're done repairing just a couple of holes as you lie on your
belly gingerly crawling over the 12-foot long panels):
[img]http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/8714067/640/8714067.jpg[/img]

With 50 or more nails in place marking the holes, you immediately notice
ALL the holes are in the weak whorls of the Fafco Revolution panels!
[img]http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/8714120/640/8714120.jpg[/img]

Your first step is to climb onto the panel and locate your first nail:
[img]http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/8714122/640/8714122.jpg[/img]

Your job will be to disable the tube. Fafco recommends you gouge out TWO
slices, each about 2 or 3 inches long, one at the very top of the 12-foot
long tube and another at the very bottom of the 12-foot long tube. This
is a LOT of work for 50 or more pinholes as that's a lot of crawling and
a hundred or more gouges. So what I do is simply gouge out a 2 or 3 inch
gash 'at' the pinhole. Here you see me starting the cut from the bottom:
[img]http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/8714123/640/8714123.jpg[/img]

The trick is to get as wide a cut as possible (so there is less friction
for the plug going in) WITHOUT cutting into the next tube!
[img]http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/8714124/640/8714124.jpg[/img]

Keep gouging out until you've gone an inch or more above and below the
pinhole:
[img]http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/8714125/640/8714125.jpg[/img]

Here is a completed cut, which is about an inch or two above and below
the pinhole:
[img]http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/8714126/640/8714126.jpg[/img]

Now I lubricate my rubber plugs with shampoo although Fafco says to
lubricate with plain water (of which there is always too much):
[img]http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/8714127/640/8714127.jpg[/img]

There is a certain 'technique' to pushing the rubber plugs into each side
of the gouge - suffice to say the smoother and more steady you push,
combined with the wider the gouge and the consistency of the gouge, and
the longer the plug (the Fafco plugs are better for this) and the more
you push on the centerline of the plug - the easier the whole thing goes
into the tube to plug it up.
[img]http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/8714128/640/8714128.jpg[/img]

With the non-stock plugs (which are shorter than the Fafco plug and which
don't have the guiding hole), I generally only get 3/4 of the way in
without the plug binding up like an inchworm:
[img]http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/8714130/640/8714130.jpg[/img]

When the plug binds, I switch tools to the thicker 1/8" tipped probe,
which allows me to push harder and to push the upper edges of the plug
down to force it into the tube:
[img]http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/8714131/640/8714131.jpg[/img]

Finally, when the plug disappears from view, I switch back to the Fafco
hex wrench tool, to push the plug in the entire 3-inch lengh of the Fafco
pushing tool:
[img]http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/8714132/640/8714132.jpg[/img]

Then I repeat the procedure for the top of the gouge (remember, Fafco
recommends two separate gouges!):
[img]http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/8714133/640/8714133.jpg[/img]

Again, I push the plug in as far as I can get it with the Fafco plug-
pushing tool:
[img]http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/8714134/img/8714134.jpg[/img]

Here is what it looks like, with the single gouge, and two plugs pushed 3
inches up the tube to disable the tube.
Notice pushing the plug in two or three inches also allows room for a
second plug - which I generally skip - although it's a good idea to add a
second plug (for a total of 4 plugs per pinhole).
[img]http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/8714136/640/8714136.jpg[/img]

Then you simply repeat the steps above with the next 50 pinholes, one by
one (until next time):
[img]http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/8714137/640/8714137.jpg[/img]

Improvements welcome!
- A key improvement would be a source for a LONGER rubber stopper. Mine
were 3/4" long but the Fafco originals are 7/8" long and therefore they
go in smoother.

[Arklin K.]

This is a DIY for how to fix hundreds of holes in the very expensive Fafco
Revolution solar heating panels.

Many lessons learned are in this DIY ... which I believe are nowhere else
on the web.

I write this so that YOU have the information that I never had, when I
started this quest four years ago to fix my Fafco Revolution solar
heating panels.

Good luck and - please improve with suggestions - as I still haven't
found a good supplier for the plugs used in this DIY.

History:

[img]http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/8714339/img/8714339.jpg[/img]

100 plugs from the dealer is $54.00 + ~10% tax; the closest/cheapest I
found is TPE0250-0750 from Rubber Dynamics at $5.00 for 100 plugs:
[img]http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/8713936/640/8713936.png[/img]

Here is what the panels look like when they're dry (notice the water
stains, each one of which is a recent leak):

[img]http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/8714342/img/8714342.jpg[/img]

There are perhaps 50 or more pinholes like these, all of which are at the
weak-point 'whorl' specific to the Fafco Revolution panels.

[img]http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/8714344/640/8714344.jpg[/img]

Notice the many varied attempts at glue, epoxy, and rubber cement. Don't
even think about gluing these panels. It just doesn't work.

[img]http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/8714429/640/8714429.jpg[/img]

REFERENCES:
- The [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuUYETXE31s]fafco youtube solar
panel repair video[/url] makes it look easier than it really is; but it's
the gist of the repair.
[i]What they don't cover in the video is you have to crawl on the sloping
panels which are laid edge to edge, for a total length of 24 feet, and
it's soaking wet and the supports are bending and creaking below you from
your weight. The panel in the video is only about 2 feet long and it's
dry and sitting on a table. This is not realistic. What a difference a
few details make! Plus, every time you crawl on the panels, you create
MORE holes because of the thousands upon thousands of whorls creating
weak spots everywhere! In addition, their method costs more than 10x the
method shown above. For just a dozen or so leaks, their method is ok; but
not when you get 50 or more every single year![/i]

- [url=https://shop.solardirect.com/pdf/pool-heaters/solar-pool-heaters/
collectors/fafco/fafco-kit-instructions.pdf]Fafco clone kit repair
instructions[/url]

[Louis Litt]

On 7/13/2012 6:12 AM, Arklin K. wrote:

> - Yet, each time I start up the solar heating system, fifty (or so)
> leaks occur; and another dozen or so occur during the summer.
> - Each and every leak (mostly pinholes) is at the weak-spot 'whorl'
> pressed into the Fafco Revolution solar heating panels.

Sounds like your pool water is literally eating holes in your solar
panels. Maybe the ph is out of whack?

http://www.epa.gov/sciencematters/april2011/leaks.htm

[Dave M.]

Arklin,

Didn't read all of your rant but you seem very unhappy. The url that you
posted regarding warranty does not say that the warranty only applies to the
original owner, so have you obtained and read the warranty. Fafco seems to
have a good reputation.
All of your pinhole leaks make me wonder what's in your water.

Dave M.

[Arklin K.]

On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 09:19:56 -0400, Louis Litt wrote:

> Sounds like your pool water is literally eating holes in your solar
> panels. Maybe the ph is out of whack?

The pH is 7.5 ...

[Arklin K.]

On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 09:31:56 -0400, Dave M. wrote:

> The url that you
> posted regarding warranty does not say that the warranty only applies to the
> original owner, so have you obtained and read the warranty.

Interesting. I learned about the 'original owner' part from Poco Solar, the guys who installed the pool.
They would have told me if it was covered under warranty.

[dpb]

On 7/13/2012 5:12 AM, Arklin K. wrote:
> This is a DIY for how to fix hundreds of holes in the very expensive Fafco
> Revolution solar heating panels.
>
> Many lessons learned are in this DIY ... which I believe are nowhere else
> on the web.
>
> I write this so that YOU have the information that I never had, when I
> started this quest four years ago to fix my Fafco Revolution solar
> heating panels.
>
> Good luck and - please improve with suggestions - as I still haven't
> found a good supplier for the plugs used in this DIY.

...

> - Each and every leak (mostly pinholes) is at the weak-spot 'whorl'
> pressed into the Fafco Revolution solar heating panels.

...

Does it really matter much in the bigger scheme of things, though???

What's the operating pressure and what's the rated pressure? I'd wonder
if you're not just blowing them out if pump pressure is excessive.

The comment another poster made on water chemistry is also a good/valid
point--just because the pH or other chemistry is in spec now doesn't
mean it was the entire time up to the time you purchased the house/pool
(or even that there haven't been excursions since).

> - And, before some smart aleck suggest gluing the pinholes, make sure
> you've tried it first.
> - You can try all the glues you want (I've tried at least a half dozen);
> they all fail ... at least they all failed me. YMMV.

Well, w/ adhesives/epoxies, the first thing to determine is "what is the
material"? There's virtually always something that will work on almost
everything...

> - What I do is what Fafco recommends which is to just disable any tube
> that leaks (about 50 tubes per year!)

What is the material? Is a thermal weld feasible? What about a #2 or
#4 screw w/ a washer in the hole?


...

> It's just bad engineering and bad design and bad manufacturing. Of
> course, it doesn't help that my panels are 15 feet below the pool, so add
> to all that bad factory stuff a badly designed installation. Oh well. It
> is what it is.

...

I don't think you have the data to prove that is so in that you can't
remove the doubts about previous maintenance, etc., etc., etc., ...

Can you find a plethora of other installations that have the same
problem? If so, _then_ you _might_ be able to build a case in
conjunction w/ the others but a single system does not a trend make...

Frustrating, undoubtedly, agreed...

--

[Bob F]

Are these panels polyethyline? Have you tried a hot glue gun? Opening up the
hole a bit (hot nail or drill), then heating the spot (hair dryer), then
squirting in just enough hot glue to form a ball inside the tube that can't be
forced out, and a little dome outside, might work for awhile at least. The
heating helps the glue bond better.

Or, you could squirt in enough glue to just block the tube like your plugs.
Those "whirls" probably would hold the hot glue well.

[Bob F]

The panels are plastic, so this is unlikely to be the problem.

[Arklin K.]

On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 10:18:37 -0500, dpb wrote:

> What is the material? Is a thermal weld feasible? What about a #2 or
> #4 screw w/ a washer in the hole?

I called the company that installed them who sent me here:
http://www.fafcosolar.com/go-solar/solar-pool-heater/revolution-panels/

"All FAFCO Panels Made Of Durable, Lightweight, Ultraviolet-Resistant, Polyolefin Material -
Blended with proprietary additives at our own plant under exacting, quality-control standards."

So it's a 'polyolefin'.

They said they don't recommend glues as they won't work.

A thermal weld 'might' work though ... Hmmm... I wonder ...

[Arklin K.]

On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 10:12:14 +0000, Arklin K. wrote:

> This is a DIY for how to fix hundreds of holes in the very expensive Fafco
> Revolution solar heating panels.

I called Fafco Solar at 239-574-1500.

They said this is common with the "Revolution" panel.

They call it 'dimple leaks'.

[Arklin K.]

On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 08:44:34 -0700, Bob F wrote:

> Or, you could squirt in enough glue to just block the tube like your plugs.
> Those "whirls" probably would hold the hot glue well.

I spoke with Alex in technical support at Fafco (al...@fafco.com)
who said that most glues won't take.

He said it's 30psi typically inside the panels and that the
Fafco Revolution panel is polypropylene.

He thinks maybe air isn't allowed to bleed out of the system
therefore the water can't drain in the winter.
If the panels were above the pool, he'd recommend a vaccuum relief valve -
but these are below so he recommended I add more drains and an air opening
at the top of the panels.

[dpb]

On 7/13/2012 5:06 PM, Arklin K. wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 10:18:37 -0500, dpb wrote:
>
>> What is the material? Is a thermal weld feasible? What about a #2 or
>> #4 screw w/ a washer in the hole?
>
> I called the company that installed them who sent me here:
> http://www.fafcosolar.com/go-solar/solar-pool-heater/revolution-panels/
>
> "All FAFCO Panels Made Of Durable, Lightweight, Ultraviolet-Resistant, Polyolefin Material -

...

>
> So it's a 'polyolefin'.
>
> They said they don't recommend glues as they won't work.

Well, you might try

<http://www.masterbond.com/applications/properties-and-applications-polyolefin-bonding>

<http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/3M-Industrial/Adhesives/Product/Catalog/Detail/?PC_7_RJH9U5230GJJ60IS8FSO6Q3GD3000000_nid=XDQKTRGPF1be7ZMZSJBQRHgl>

3M DP8010 Structural Plastic Adhesive
Benefits, Markets and Applications
Polyolefin bonder

3M Polyolefin Adhesion Promoter
<http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/3M-Polyolefin-Adhesion-Promoter-2KVC2>

(I didn't find this one but didn't try too hard at 3M site...)

Should be a starting point--I'd expect there to be more from DuPont,
Loctite maybe, all the major players...maybe they don't have a solution
but I wouldn't say "no chance" just yet, any way...

> A thermal weld 'might' work though ... Hmmm... I wonder ...

As might the mechanical suggested earlier as well...I intended to post
the following link as well but overlooked I hadn't...

<http://www.allsealsinc.com/thread-seals.html>

Look at the 800 Series Lock-O-Seals .pdf link on that page
...
The 800 Series Lock-O-Seal is a two piece combination
seal comprised of a separately molded O-ring fitted within
a surrounding metal washer. These Lock-O-Seals are intended
to seal beneath the head of a fastener. Lock-OSeals
are recommended for use ... under the following circumstances:
(1) To seal bolts, studs, or other fasteners in the small
and miniature sizes –specifically #2, #4 and #5


Rubber Seal etal Retainer
Fastener W
Size I.D. Thickness I.D. O.D.
2 .078 .030 .136 .250
4 .100 .038 .171 .312
5 .116 .038 .187 .312
...

Depending on wall thickness, maybe...a #2 or #4 screw is pretty
delicate...of course, I'd probably try w/ just a #4 panhead sheet metal
screw and a piece of soft rubber as a gasket...if it's already leaking
what's to lose?

--

[dpb]

On 7/13/2012 5:35 PM, Arklin K. wrote:
...

> He said it's 30psi typically inside the panels...

Well, ok that's "typical" Now what is _your_ system operating pressure
at temperature? What happens if it's idle and full sun when it heats
up--what kind of pressure spike do you see then?

Do temp's reach freezing/below in winter? If so, and that's a possible
culprit, any reason can't use RV-rated antifreeze solution so if doesn't
drain completely it won't freeze?

--

[Bob F]

I'd seriously look at restricting the water flow to the panels to reduce the
amount of pressure actually seen by the panels. Adjusting for less pressure
might help them last longer.

If all the water from the pump goes through the panels, the pressure will be
increasing with every tube that gets patched. Bypass most of the water.

If the problem just shows up in the spring, freezing would be suspected, and
getting water out of the panels in the winter should be #1 priority.

Having a pump drawing from the outlet of the panels rather than pumping into the
inlet could reduce the pressure enough that exterior sealing with polyurethane
caulk and/or aluminum tape might hold.

[stip...@gmail.com]

Heard that they've discontinued Revolution - but I'm about to have some installed out of inventory stock. Should I reconsider?

[chuck.b...@gmail.com]

I have the panels with the swirlys, what a nightmare, buyer beware.