Question? The money trail---
Mo Morris
by tracing the money bet on the race via the tote board odds without
useing any other handicapping info at all? Is any consistancy possible?
F.H.
Strictly? Don't think so. For clues? Absolutely. IME
Frank
Bob Fritz
decent results by jotting down the win and place pools and betting the horse
that's the most out-of-proportion in win money compared to his place money.
The underlying theory is that insiders bet to win, not place.
Bob
"F.H." <conn...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:hRcmd.2665$qS4.1240@trnddc09...
F.H.
> While there is no system that will guarantee the winner, I've gotten some
> decent results by jotting down the win and place pools and betting the horse
> that's the most out-of-proportion in win money compared to his place money.
> The underlying theory is that insiders bet to win, not place.
>
> Bob
There's certainly value there for a certain type of player. Over the
years I've been up close and personal with "insiders" and have seem them
go down the tubes and have seem them win. Mostly the former. I believe
a serious player should keep track of obvious over betting and pay
attention to the connections. Some owner/trainer combinations do well,
some do not. I became interested in tracking as opposed to betting
after I got my ass handed to me a few times following money.
Back in the 60's there were some con-artist tipsters on the radio
(anyone remember Turfcraft?) that would (on those rare occasions that
they go lucky) actually affect the odds on week days at Santa Anita.
wolf again
on Favs. 5-2 horses go to 7-5 in the last minuet. Have seen too many
of these lose.
Mo Morris
in DRF about Hub money releases in the last minute or sometimes even as
the race has started is the reason for those big final odds drop.Anyone
know anything about "Hubs" and how they work?
g Wayne
[stuff snipped]
> >
> > Back in the 60's there were some con-artist tipsters on the radio
> > (anyone remember Turfcraft?) that would (on those rare occasions that
> > they go lucky) actually affect the odds on week days at Santa Anita.
> A real problem would be those huge last minute bets. Whales? Often
> on Favs. 5-2 horses go to 7-5 in the last minuet. Have seen too many
> of these lose.
Sammy Parker and his "Blue Ribbon Parlay"
--
-- g Wayne --
bar...@amenia.com
In the mid-70's the Bay Area had several services. One was called
"The Track Reporter". They had a local number that gave scratches at the
local tracks as well as free results updated after each race. With no
internet or account wagering this allowed me to check results from work
and call my book after each race.
One time I decided to talk to them about their picks. At that time
Bay Meadows closed a few days before Christmas and racing resumed at
Golden Fate in Feb.
Around Jan.15 they began hyping the fact that they had the double
(remember at that time there was only one double each day) for opening
day at GGF. This was strange for several reasons (a) entries were still
open for the card and (b) if one of the two legs in the double came up
light the racing secretary would switch it with a fuller race.
After discussing prices the conversation went like this:
"So you have an ex-jockey on helps you get information"
"Yes, sir, we have inside information"
"I have a question. How do you know the winner when the entries are
not done?"
"We have inside information'
"But if the race does not fill up another race makes up the double"
"Sir, as I said, we have inside information"
--
To reply via e-mail please delete 1 c from paccbell
F.H.
LOL, yep. And trolling for suckers was easy because there was only two
stations giving results. No TV replays in those days. I have a vivid
memory of one misadventure. At the place where I worked we had a guy
who had to bet every day and he was beyond bad as a handicapper. Just
used the newspaper. Turfcraft hooked him good but he had no money. Our
boss was the cheapest guy I've ever known and Joe talked him into
putting up enough cash (I forget how much) to buy 5 Blue Ribbon Parlays.
All five lost. Three times they got the first half. These guys
(Turfcraft) were just handicapping. They always had several releases.
Another was the OTJ (owner, trainer, jockey) stable secret. When ever
the parlay lost the OTJ won. Something *always* won. Not too hard to
figure out the scam.
Where they could kill a horse was when the first half hit. Take a dozen
or so players (and friends) betting a win parlay (200.00 recomended)
and you can immagine what would happen to the odds, especially on a week
day.
Ray Gordon
board handicapping.
A sharp tote watcher should be able to make a few bucks in the exotics.
http://www.cybersheet.com/horsepix.htm
Click the FREE E-BOOK link and you'll see it. Also has a sheet in MS-Word
format for jotting down the various information.
--
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Seduction Made Easy. Get this book FREE when you buy any participating
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"Mo Morris" <mom...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:285-4199...@storefull-3231.bay.webtv.net...
Danzig
that really have a chance...Often get payoffs like $6.00, 5.00 and 4.00
which is downright insane!
Sparkys11
"insider" information cash tickets and I was left holding quite a few exacta
box tickets with the second/third place finishers (reached via my respectable
handicapping ability) I decided to begin to investigate possible tote board
angles. I began by watching how it is that these people wager. It seems that
the "front of house" players (agents, clerks, employees and friends thereof)
tend to bet heavy to win and back it up with place bets - as it is still
"horseracing'' and anything can happen. They also bet exacta and daily doubles
with their "pick" on top. The players with "backside" tips seemed to place
show wagers on horses with longer odds. The commonality between the two
groups was that they always bet early - this money is usually in the pools long
before the race. Armed with these observations, I began to track the odds from
home via my BrisBet account.
Without much time to devote this project, here are a few of my observations:
The most "accurate" time to read the tote board was up until 18-20 minutes
before post time at Belmont. Even with the shorter times between races, the
window at Aqueduct seemed to be about the same, about 16-18 minutes prior.
After these times, the pools become diluted with the on-track handle. The
horses with a similar percentage of the win pool and place pool but with a
large drop off in the show pool performed best. This was regardless of the
horses odds - if it was the favorite in the race or if it was a 8-1 shot that
took 14% of the win pool, 12 % of the place pool and only 3 % of the show pool.
As you approach post time, you will generally see a horse like this remain the
same in the W/P pools and increase in the show pool (evened out by the public
betting a horse with longer odds to show). For horses who were one of the
favorites in the race and fit the above description, as post time approached,
the pools tended to remain at similar percentages. I attributed this to the
ways people at the track with different levels of handicapping prowess tend to
bet favorites - win only, win/place only, across the board, show only etc.
As for the horses with longer odds that took an unbalanced percentage of the
show pool compared to the W/P pools, I found that they did run better than
expected but still infrequently hit the board. I wouldn't call them a total
throw-out, I would just like to explore when it was that these horses performed
the best. From a quick review, it seems lower class races and possibly at
distances greater than a mile.
As I said before, I wish I had more time to devote to this project. Given the
time, I would like to go back and give concrete percentages. I also think that
these observations are more accurate for certain types of races. I believe the
actual pool sizes play a large role - seems to have merit at Belmont and
Aqueduct but gets "fuzzy" at tracks like the Meadowlands, Suffolk and the
Finger Lakes. Also, graded races were a toss out. So what does it all mean?
Not much really - just a few thoughts on the subject - I realize there are many
holes in the above but we all need an angle.
amika
will make a
comment about the subject of Turfcraft and the late Sammy Parker.
(Yes, the late Mr Parker. He died about two years ago.) Every word I am
about
to say is true and accurate. Not to defame him at all. He was a good guy
in his heart.
He just hated stupid people and stupid bets.
I used to hear him on the radio when I was kid and for a kid who loved
horse racing
hearing the touts on the radio talking of huge wins in one day with a two
horse parlay
was golden magic. Leo Herbert was the radio caller then, prior it was Polo
Jaquez.
Broadcast from Chula Vista, California the same center that Wolfman Jack
used to air
from, the evening show was an entertaining event. When I came of age I
wanted to meet
Sammy Parker. So one day at the Del Mar racetrack I asked one of the
Turfcraft Agents
who was selling their daily selections on the corner at Jimmy Durante Blvd
if
Sammy Parker was at the track that day. He looked at me like I was nuts.
"Hell, I don't
know, do you wanna buy something kid I gotta sell this stuff".
I left and went on in to watch the races. In those days they had 50 and
100 dollar
betting windows. I couldn't bet because I was 18 and I usually went with
my dad.
I figured if I stood by the 100 dollar window I'd see Sammy Parker cashing
in a
Blue Ribbon Parlay bet. But that was wishful thinking. Most of the guys I
saw cashing
tickets looked like recovering alcoholics. Didn't make sense to me.
4 years later after I got out of the Navy I was able to go it alone.
Turfcraft was
still on the air. I still listened. So I went to LA to the office on
Broadway in
downtown LA. Jeez, what a dump. The hallway smelled bad and the office
floor had
an old carpet from a WC Fields movie. Horse photos all over the wall with
autographed
photos of Shoemaker and Arcaro. At 22 years of age I was still a little
naive.
I went in and a girl with 38-DD's asked me my name and wrote it on card
and then
stepped into the adjoining office. There were Playboy Magazines all over
the coffee
table too. She returns and says "Okay...you can go in now". That's it? I
thought,
I am going to meet Sammy Parker and this is all I had to do. Well I go in
and this
guy stands there looking at me with a face that looks like it was used for
testing
ice picks. Man. I'm thinking this is the mafia. What am I doing here.
So he offers a handshake and I say "Really nice to meet you Mr. Parker".
The guy
looks at me and says "Oh I ain't Sammy Parker...he's at the track right
now". Well
that blew it for me. Then he asked if I was interested in buying anything.
No I guess
not I said. He just looked at me like I was nuts. And now I was beginning
to think I
was.
A few years passed and the radio show was still going. I was in college
hoping to
become something respectable and was working part-time. I heard a call on
the Turfcraft
radio show for a 20 dollar bill with three 7's in the serial number. The
announcer said
"stop in to see Sammy himself and give him a 20 dollar bill with three 7's
in the serial
number and you will get on Friday a blue Ribbon Parlay with this
guarantee, the first half
must win and pay better than 10 dollars". Damn, how could I say no. I
figured I would
get at least $1000 on the first half. So apparently I was going to college
to get stupid.
A lot of us were. I went for it. A different girl with 38-DD's greets me
in the same
manner. I go in. And there is Sammy Parker. A giant. 6ft 3in. with arms
like Popeye.
I figured he might have been an ex-wrestler or something. Maybe
he was hitman at one time or something. He looked down at me and said
"Okay a 20 with
three 7's in the serial number...good deal...call me Friday for the
winners".
I was about to become the smartest or dumbest person in the world I was
thinking.
Then Friday came. I took my mother with me to Hollywood Park. It was
crowded in those
days even during the week. We get seated and then we wait and wait. Then
the horses
come on the track and I am watching the board. He's 9/2. Damn. That's a
good price.
But I realize something at that point. I don't have the two hundred
dollars to start
the parlay. All I have is a hundred. My dad asked me to put $20 to win on
him. My mom
put $50 to win. Well, there goes my hundred. I am at the mercy of the
racing gods. The
race goes off and I can't see my horse. My heart is pounding like I'm
getting laid for
the time. Then I hear Harry Henson call his name out mid-stretch and
BINGO! He won.
Shit I tought (like most suckers) I'm gonna do this full-time. Who needs
school!
Yeah right! The the second half lines up. My mom wisely cashes and quits.
My dad told me
to just put $5 of his winnings on the second part of the parlay. Don't be
foolish he said.
The odds were 5 to 1 on the second half of the Blue Ribbon Parlay. That
would put $6600
in my pocket within a few minutes. Done! I put the bet in and then the
price drops to 4 to 1, then 7-2, then 3 to 1. I figured I wasn't the only
guy who
visited Sammy earlier in the week. The bell rings the gates open and my
horse finishes
5th. I became a part of history. I learned that once you have cashed a big
wager
you must figure out why you bet and why the horse won. The odds were
against me from
the beginning. Never trust anyone's information other than your own. Luck?
Yes.
Luck is random. Right place, right time. I was in heaven for a few
minutes.
I knew what it felt like to be a winner. To feel rich. You see wealth is
permanent,
being rich is fleeting. Like an evening with a beautiful girl. It's only
real for a
moment. Then you go home and whip the lizard.
Years would pass. The radio show went off the air. Racing started to
change.
I think the generation of baby boomers who became ractrack regulars
started to apply
the knowledge gained in schools. Alegrabic formulas are humorous when
applied to racing.
They don't really work when you have to manage money along side the
selection.
Progressive betting schemes will wipe you out. Turfcraft had one very
valuable and
reliable assest. The Turfcraft Magazine. It was actually a newsletter but
is was a
brilliant bit of information and it did work. Each month they would
publish a list of
two hundred or so horses that were ready to win. Out of the group maybe 18
to 25 would
score. But they all didn't race. So the percentage was in your favor.
Based on class
and condition these horses produced many big payoffs and it led me to a
number of
pick-6 winnings. Many years after college I would go to the new offices on
Olympic Blvd. on the north side of the Harbor Freeway in Los Angeles to
get a
subscription to the magazine and that was when I really met Sammy Parker.
I told him about my day long ago when I thought I had the world by the
tail.
He laughed and said "Yeah everybody thinks that too...but we know that
isn't
true don't we?" He explained that if you trust yourself you can succeed at
the track.
He also told me he was a terrible handicapper. The skill needed has to be
learned and
information he got was from a groom or a clocker he had to pay each time
he needed an
edge. "I'll bet $2000 to win on a horse when a groom tells me he is in
condition to
win, but I won't bet two bucks on my own selections...I just don't have
that kind gut
instinct". The magazine was pure gold if you knew how to use it he said. I
did know
how to use it.
I kept renewing the subscription and called him one day to tell him how
that mag had
put a lot of money in my pocket. I had a good job then too, so it was free
money.
"Call me tomorrow I've something live. I called and he said try this
triple on the
first three races and lay up a minimum thirty dollar bet. It hit at $11.
Three chalk
prices at even money, 6 to 5 and 3 to 2. It was free money. Then he
tempted me with
Blue Ribbon Parlay. I'll get you the parlay free just make a bet for me at
$200.
Well...maybe not. But I could probably hit the first half and put myself
way ahead.
History does not repeat itself. People repeat history. Ignorance is bliss,
but a stupid
bet is a stupid person's addiction. I went for it and lost on the first
half.
You would think that you would know better than to return to the same
place you were
burned before. But the racing gods reminded me that fools abound at the
the racetrack.
Sammy Parker was the perfect huckster. He found a way to make people feel
they had
chance to get rich in one day and maybe even everyday if they stuck with
it. When I
spoke to him about it later he said "Yeah some guy just called me to say I
was a
motherfucker...I have been called even worse than that"
Sammy had a wife and daughter and they were in it all together. When he
died they
closed the office and shut down Turfcraft, Inc. No more magazine, no more
winners.
He was actually a funny guy. He had a sense of humor about racing. "Nobody
I know
is rich from betting on horses, but you can make money from selling
information.
The rest is just plain luck".
For the last 17 years I have been compiling information from results at
Del Mar, Santa
Anita and Hollywood Park. It all points to one conclusion that is
accurate; the
favorites win at a 30-33% clip on a regular basis. That means 70% of the
time you
will lose on a chalk wager. I have other information on the remaining 70%
but I
won't tease you with it yet. I will be establishing a web site to explain
everything
soon. And then a whole new era of handicapping will begin. This time it
will show you
how to make a return on your wagers. The Beyer figures have been a boon to
the
handicapper's of the late 80's and in the 90's. Luck is still part of the
game.
Knowledge of horses and horse racing is still a prerequisite before you
can become
a true professional. You must be smart and you must develop a memory that
is on a
par with a computer chip. One thing I have never seen any horse player do
is keep a
result form of himself. Horses have a chart for their entire history.
Horseplayers need
one too. You must know at all times where your money is going and where it
will go. And
why you made the bet in the first place. Do your own handicapping! If you
are smart
you can succeed at this game. You don't need a degree. You just need to
trust in
yourself and your ability to study horses and their past performances.
Most of all
have the guts to not wager when you are not sure if the win percentage is
in your
favor.
Sammy Parker never promised anyone a winner. Ever! He merely presented the
listener
with entertainment on the subject of horse racing on a particular day. If
the fantasy
produced a result, whether is was a winnnig ticket or a losing ticket, you
were part
of the fantasy. Suckers aren't born every minute. They die before they get
to the
front door. Dream for too long and someone like Sammy Parker might come
along and make
it real.
Here's tidbit for the curious- champions breed champions. Losers breed
disappointment.
Best wishes and good luck-
A Student of Pittsburg Phil.
g Wayne
I don't remember a time in the state of Calif. when one couldn't bet at the
track at the tender age of 18, and I've been here since 1960. Fifty cent
racing forms, perforated along the top. Sammy (it's tough when you lose the
close ones) Parker was the king of the huckster touts. He never promised a
winner, but if his parlay didn't win, he'd give you his exacta for
tommorows card only, free of charge.
So how about them 38 DD's. The girls themselves told you this? You got to
measure them etc.? True and accurate??
Just Jim
"g Wayne" <g...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:G8df4sdtcWG8-pn2-dm95duMiFZzv@localhost...
danzig
parts of a religious show: Brother Henderson and his Glory Bound Train.
I still have a tape of "This is Leo Herbert, track side for Turfcraft,
the organization WITH the winning information!! Have the day that Shoe
broke Longden's record.
