Subic Bay Incident
Karl
At least my reply didn't make it. Thats why i post here,
starting with a Cite. My own Text ist below the Cite.
<cite>
Date: Wed Mar 10 13:28:37 2004
From: "E. Y. Teehankee" <e...@info.com.ph>
To: dra...@smartgroups.com
Reply to: dra...@smartgroups.com
It is with great sadness that I report that yesterday, 9 March 2004, I lost
my instructor and friend, Deane Brown, while diving at Subic Bay. I wish
to share the following report prepared for Divers Alert Network this
morning.
"Incident Report
"Olongapo, Philippines
"9 March 2004, about 1330H
"Victim and Student went out on a 54-meter technical rebreather training
dive (with a planned bottom time of 20 minutes and a planned total run time
of 60 minutes). About 7-8 minutes into the dive (at or near the bottom),
Student was clearing a fogged mask, and when he looked around saw that he
had been separated from the Victim, seeing the Victim above him. Student
went to the anchor line to wait for the Victim to join him, but had no more
visual contact. At about 10 minutes of bottom time, Student began ascent
following the planned decompression stops. On surfacing at around 50
minutes, Student informed Dive Operator (on board speed boat) of the events.
"From there, Dive Operator initiated a search for Victim, first by watching
for a safety balloon around the entry point, then by taking the boat around
the surrounding waters. 20-30 minutes of not finding Victim, Dive Operator
called for assistance from SBMA and nearby dive shops, and asked for scuba
equipment to be transported from his own shop. When the equipment arrived,
Dive Operator and Assistant entered the water to search for Victim. Victim
was found at the bottom, already expired. Dive Operator and Assistant then
brought up Victim's remains to the surface.
"An autopsy conducted in the evening concluded that the cause of death was
a massive heart attack."
I also witnessed this afternoon the examination by the certifying agency of
the rebreather equipment and bottom gas used. Without wishing to preempt a
final report from the certifying agency, it is my understanding that
Deane's equipment and gas were in order.
I have no doubt in my mind that Deane was a skilled and cautious diver,
indeed an excellent and articulate instructor. I have been witness as well
to his meticulousness about equipment, gas, and dive planning, and
safety. It is truly unfortunate that he should suffer his heart attack
while doing the thing he loved best.
</cite>
I'm sad to hear that.
From the description it looks quite similar to a case of high ppCO2,
so i would like to know how:
a) the coroner did the differential diagnostics between heart attack and
hyperoxic-CO2 (high ppCO2 while at signicant more than 0,21bar ppO2),
b) the technical examination of the scrubber-status was done
(sequential chemical analysis?).
For shure, from the Time-Frame CO2-Tunneling would
be more possible than an overused or soaked scrubber.
Hypooxia would be possible too, but comes more silent
than Hypercapnia. That's the Reason why
the mentioned Behaviour lets me think about high ppCO2.
Regards,
Karl
Mike Ross
wrote:
<snip>
Sad to hear this..
>From the description it looks quite similar to a case of high ppCO2,
>so i would like to know how:
>a) the coroner did the differential diagnostics between heart attack and
> hyperoxic-CO2 (high ppCO2 while at signicant more than 0,21bar ppO2),
I'm no doctor to be sure, but I would presume (have to wait to see
coroners final report) that they 1. found significant damage to a
localised area of cardiac muscle and 2. found significant pre-existing
coronary artery disease to account for it.
Are you suggesting that the hyperoxic-CO2 combination can cause a
heart attack in an otherwise healthy individual? I wasn't aware of
this...
>b) the technical examination of the scrubber-status was done
> (sequential chemical analysis?).
>For shure, from the Time-Frame CO2-Tunneling would
>be more possible than an overused or soaked scrubber.
>Hypooxia would be possible too, but comes more silent
>than Hypercapnia. That's the Reason why
>the mentioned Behaviour lets me think about high ppCO2.
Why are you looking at the scrubber? Granted, the coroner may well not
be knowedgable when it comes to hyperbaric medicine, but absent other
evidence, shouldn't we give the benefit of the doubt that he/she
wouldn't make a firm call of 'massive heart attack' without clear
evidence?
Not picking a fight, just curious to know - you may know something
about this hyperoxic-CO2 situation that I don't...
Mike
http://www.corestore.org
As I walk along these shores
I am the history within...
Karl
> ...
> Are you suggesting that the hyperoxic-CO2 combination can cause a
> heart attack in an otherwise healthy individual? I wasn't aware of
> this...
No, but even that might be true.
The Symptoms mentioned just look
like ones of CO2-Poisoning
under a ppO2 of significant more than 0.21bar.
>>b) the technical examination of the scrubber-status was done
>>(sequential chemical analysis?).
>>For shure, from the Time-Frame CO2-Tunneling would
>>be more possible than an overused or soaked scrubber.
>>Hypooxia would be possible too, but comes more silent
>>than Hypercapnia. That's the Reason why
>>the mentioned Behaviour lets me think about high ppCO2.
>
> Why are you looking at the scrubber?
Because it is there the CO2 should be removed,
but is not sufficiently when one of mostly serveal
later proveable things have happend.
Shit happens, like forgetting a Scrubber-Fill,
having a broken part, having an underfilled
or vibration caused factial underfilled Scrubber.
It might even be proveable if a scrubber was still
breathed after it was allready partially flooded.
And for shure: that analysis is still even possible
on a scrubber that was totally flooded for many days.
> wouldn't make a firm call of 'massive heart attack'
> without clear evidence?
Many Terms are often not that clear in official documents,
as they sound after a "translation" in public language.
"Heart attack" so just might be one reason that
fits to the findings or used words.
> Not picking a fight, just curious to know -
> you may know something
> about this hyperoxic-CO2 situation that I don't...
We did some research in that field.
Regards,
Karl