Dutch 200

8 views
Skip to first unread message

Carl Fogelin

unread,
Feb 7, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/7/96
to
Last night I managed to shoot a Dutch 200 in my scratch league. I'll admit
that this was a first for me. I was asking around and no one could remember
having seen one thrown. Are they really that rare?

Carl
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl Fogelin (foge...@pt.cyanamid.com) "All opinions are strictly mine"

Computer pioneer Seymour Cray, described the characteristics of Virtual
Memory Operating Systems as follows:

Memory is like an orgasm. It's a lot better if you don't have to fake it.

James T. Jacobs

unread,
Feb 8, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/8/96
to
Carl Fogelin (foge...@pt.cyanamid.com) wrote:
: Last night I managed to shoot a Dutch 200 in my scratch league. I'll admit

Carl,

I've been bowling since 1960, and now am preparing to compete on the PBA
Senior tour. I've never thrown a "Dutch" 200, and have never seen one.
But then, I've never had an all-spare game or a triplicate either, although I
have witness a number of both. (My wife has two 185+ all-spare games).

reach and roll (but only strike every other frame)........jj

Steve Lawson

unread,
Feb 8, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/8/96
to
CrushR FWG wrote:

> Any other Dutch 200 shooters out there?

I had one last year for the first in 25+ years of bowling

That all spare gane is the one that eludes me (although a few years back an all spare game was a pretty decent
score, now it's 20+ pins under average, not necessarily a desired award). I've been thwarted on that one (years
ago) a couple of times in the 10th frame (struck each time). Each time it was more important to our team to get
the strike to win a game than for me to miss the headpin or something to intentionally not strike just for the
patch.

Steve Lawson

CrushR FWG

unread,
Feb 8, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/8/96
to
Carl Fogelin (foge...@pt.cyanamid.com) wrote:
: Last night I managed to shoot a Dutch 200 in my scratch league. I'll
admit
: that this was a first for me. I was asking around and no one could
remember
: having seen one thrown. Are they really that rare?
:
: Carl

In a sanctioned summer league (1989 or 1990) I managed to throw one at
Sunset Recreation, Albany, NY. The Albany Bowling Association awards its
own "Dutch 200" patch (complete with a scoresheet superimposed on a Dutch
shoe because of the Dutch influence in this part of the country). It would
be during the following winter season that I would witness the only other
one I've seen to date.

I grabbed a Bowling Magazine promo issue (ABC Centennial) and in the
centerfold they list the number of ABC awards given out between June 1,
1994 to May 31, 1995. I correctly guessed the more prolific award (League
Champion does not count) and yes, Dutch 200 ranks low among the
earnable-through-bowling awards (only the "split" awards and Merit and
Hall of Fame are lower). Here's the list:

900 series 0
800 series 6,161
300 game 28,616
299 game 12,525
298 game 5,364
11-in-a-row 22,245
Century award 63,603
700 Series 151,981
150 over series 86,388
7-10 split 4,610
Big Four split 4,440
All-spare game 13,402
Dutch 200 7,081
Triplicate 20,718
Awards of Merit 2,045
Assn. Champions 30,000
Assn. Hall of Fame 500
League Champions 1 million plus
League High Average 75,000 (one per league, obviously)
League Most Improved 75,000 (ditto)
Senior 75 over average game 28,065
Senior 125 over average series 18,631

Any other Dutch 200 shooters out there?

__________________________________________________________
| Frank W. Goebel II | Secretary, Olympic Lanes Classic |
| YABA Registered | Myrrdin Level II Instructor |
| Coach-Instructor | Member Eastern NY ABT Masters |
| |
|My ball may not have a flip block, but my car sure does!|
|________________________________________________________|

DONALD W. LAWRENCE

unread,
Feb 9, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/9/96
to

In article <4fefeb$1...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> CrushR FWG
wrote:
>Date: 8 Feb 1996 22:35:39 -0500
>From: crus...@aol.com (CrushR FWG)
>Sender: ro...@newsbf02.news.aol.com
>Newsgroups: alt.sport.bowling
>Subject: Re: Dutch 200

>
>Carl Fogelin (foge...@pt.cyanamid.com) wrote:
>: Last night I managed to shoot a Dutch 200 in my scratch
league. <snip> Are they really that rare?
>:
>: Carl

In a follow-up, Frank W. Goebel II provided award stats for
the 1994-1995 season and demonstrated that only the Big Four
and 7-10 splits were given less frequently.

I contend that the probabilities of a Dutch 200 make it the
most difficult of all awards. (Yes, tougher than rolling a
300, an 800, or a big split.

The probabilities of various awards can be found in the
Cyberspace Bowling Hall of Fame.

Personally, I have earned a Dutch 200, triplicate, all-spare
game and various pins-over average awards. Can't get that
damn 700 - 689 is best. And, have yet to throw 11 strikes in a
game, let alone in-a-row.

Maybe, one day...


Visit the Cyberspace Bowling Hall of Fame at:
http://members.gnn.com/bigbull300/

No Bull from the Big Bull!
Boonton, NJ


Tariq

unread,
Feb 9, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/9/96
to
I've thrown 3 Dutch 200 games, but I have only seen it done twice by
others.

Thrown 2 all spare games also.

Tony

Raymond C. Salas

unread,
Feb 9, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/9/96
to
Carl Fogelin <foge...@pt.cyanamid.com> wrote:

>Last night I managed to shoot a Dutch 200 in my scratch league. I'll admit
>that this was a first for me. I was asking around and no one could remember

>having seen one thrown. Are they really that rare?

>Carl


>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Carl Fogelin (foge...@pt.cyanamid.com) "All opinions are strictly mine"

> Computer pioneer Seymour Cray, described the characteristics of Virtual
> Memory Operating Systems as follows:

> Memory is like an orgasm. It's a lot better if you don't have to fake it.

They seem to be rare in this neck of the woods. I can only remember
having seen two or three of them up close and personal.

I threw a Dutch 200 at Bowlerama in Cheyenne WY in the fall of 1984.
To this day I still haven't seen the patch. So if anyone out there
knows Al Haynes, please get on his case for me (just kidding, Al).


INST4544

unread,
Feb 9, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/9/96
to
In article <4ffj9i$a...@news1.usa.pipeline.com>, tony...@usa.pipeline.com(Tariq) writes...

I have seen others do the Dutch and all spare, but never done it
myself, mainly because I suck as a spare shooter! Here is really
nice little tid bit for y'all!:

In my last regional I spared the 7-10, the 2-4-8-10, got 4 of the 5
of the Greek Church, I moved the 4 pin too, and missed 2 10 pins
for a nice 3 open 190 something! What a loser!

Strike for show, spare for dough. I ended up missing 14 spares in
the 12 games, and missed cashing by 40+ pins. What a puss!

Mike Austin
Houston, TX

Strike Zone Pro Shop!!!
Texas City, TX

IBowl2Much

unread,
Feb 10, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/10/96
to
Carl Fogelin (foge...@pt.cyanamid.com) wrote:
> Last night I managed to shoot a Dutch 200 in my scratch league. I'll
admit
>that this was a first for me. I was asking around and no one could
remember
>having seen one thrown. Are they really that rare?

>Carl

My Dutch 200 was by far the best game I have ever thrown: even though I
have
thrown some pretty high scores, my Dutch was the only game with every ball
squarely burried in the hole. I just couldn't carry on the right lane of
the pair
no matter what I did (move up, back, left, right, faster, slower, etc.)
I'm glad
to find out my "accomplishment" was fairly rare.

Sharla

WILLIAM HAROLD ROLLINS

unread,
Feb 10, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/10/96
to
Carl Fogelin (foge...@pt.cyanamid.com) wrote:
: Last night I managed to shoot a Dutch 200 in my scratch league. I'll admit
: that this was a first for me. I was asking around and no one could remember
: having seen one thrown. Are they really that rare?

Its pretty rare. I've never seen one either. Sounds like a lane
adjustment to me. But then againI've only been bowling since 1975.

BiNM


Carl Fogelin

unread,
Feb 11, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/11/96
to
IBowl2Much wrote:
>
> Carl Fogelin (foge...@pt.cyanamid.com) wrote:
> > Last night I managed to shoot a Dutch 200 in my scratch league. I'll
> admit
> >that this was a first for me. I was asking around and no one could
> remember
> >having seen one thrown. Are they really that rare?
>
> >Carl
>
> My Dutch 200 was by far the best game I have ever thrown: even though I
> have
> thrown some pretty high scores, my Dutch was the only game with every ball
> squarely burried in the hole. I just couldn't carry on the right lane of
> the pair
> no matter what I did (move up, back, left, right, faster, slower, etc.)
> I'm glad
> to find out my "accomplishment" was fairly rare.

Like you, every one of my shots was right there. I just could not "buy"
a strike on the left lane. I guess I was lucky to have my 12th on the
lane I was striking on. (It's not too hard to "oops" a strike for an
opportunity to get a spare, but it's real hard to "oops" a spare to get
a strike.) FWIW: I really wasn't trying for the Dutch 200, I was just
trying to win my point and things just happened to work out.

Bruce Hartley

unread,
Feb 13, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/13/96
to
Carl Fogelin wrote:

> Last night I managed to shoot a Dutch 200 in my scratch league. I'll admit
> that this was a first for me. I was asking around and no one could remember
> having seen one thrown. Are they really that rare?


From memory I'm sure they are statistically less frquent than 300 games.


Bruce (Captain & Web Provider)

******************************************************
Sheffield University Tenpin Bowling Club
email : SU...@Sheffield.ac.uk (PGP Key on Request)
Web : http://www.shef.ac.uk/~sutbc/
******************************************************

Chris Mooney

unread,
Feb 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/14/96
to
Pardon a newbie question here, but exactly what is a dutch 200?


James T. Jacobs

unread,
Feb 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/14/96
to
Chris Mooney (st...@jetson.uh.edu) wrote:
: Pardon a newbie question here, but exactly what is a dutch 200?
:
If you alternately strike and spare for a whole game, your score will be 200.
It doesn't matter whether you start out with a strike or a spare in the first
frame, as long as you do nothing but strike on one alley and spare on the
other, it's a Dutch 200. A 200 with no doubles.

reach and roll...........................jj

John DeCarlo

unread,
Feb 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/14/96
to
On Feb 14 01:10 96, UUCP of Dave <75227...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:

U> Don't know about most bowlers but personally I have no
U> desire to shoot a dutch 200, would rather string some of the
U> strikes and bowl 200+ and hopefully help my team win.

Well, it is better than an all-spare game. Or a triplicate 135.

John


Raymond C. Salas

unread,
Feb 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/14/96
to
wrol...@nmsu.edu (WILLIAM HAROLD ROLLINS) wrote:

>Carl Fogelin (foge...@pt.cyanamid.com) wrote:
>: Last night I managed to shoot a Dutch 200 in my scratch league. I'll admit
>: that this was a first for me. I was asking around and no one could remember
>: having seen one thrown. Are they really that rare?

>Its pretty rare. I've never seen one either. Sounds like a lane

>adjustment to me. But then againI've only been bowling since 1975.

>BiNM

Yes, but you don't mention just how you would adjust that lane.
Sounds like a job for a trained mechanic. For the rest of us, don't
try this at home.

And is a Dutch 200 more or less rare than the "perfect" 190 all-spare
game? My Mom did that once, about 15 years ago.


Gerald

unread,
Feb 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/14/96
to

On Wed, 14 Feb 1996, Chris Mooney wrote:

> Pardon a newbie question here, but exactly what is a dutch 200?

Alternating strikes and spares the whole game.


Les Stevenson

unread,
Feb 15, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/15/96
to
In article <4frucd$nq7$1...@mhade.production.compuserve.com>, Dave <75227...@CompuServe.COM> says:

>Don't know about most bowlers but personally I have no desire to
>shoot a dutch 200, would rather string some of the strikes and

>bowl 200+ and hopefully help my team win.


Dave, you could always put that wonderful Dutch 200 patch
on your bowling shirt. :-) Actually, I agree with you. In fact,
one of my team members just last night had a shot at a Dutch.
He struck the first ball in the 10th, then actually moved left and
threw the ball farther right in an attempt to not strike (he did anyway).
Teammate or note, I think it would have served him right if
he had not struck on the second ball, but left something
unmakeable, just as payback for worrying more about some
silly patch earner than his score (not that score mattered since
we had the game locked up).

Aaron C Thies

unread,
Feb 15, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/15/96
to
In article <4frucd$nq7$1...@mhade.production.compuserve.com>, Dave
<75227...@CompuServe.COM> writes:

>Don't know about most bowlers but personally I have no desire to
>shoot a dutch 200, would rather string some of the strikes and
>bowl 200+ and hopefully help my team win.

I had an opportunity to do this Tuesday (2/13). After shooting 144 and 160
the first two games (and I had to go XX9 in the 10th the second game to get
the 160), I ditched my brace and tried something else.

With my Cobalt Rhino :) The outsides were moving pretty good. I threw most
of a Dutch 200. My game went like this:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
X X X 9/ X 7/ X 9/ X XX7
30 59 79 99 119 139 159 179 209 236

As you can see, I struck every time on the right lane (the odd-numbered
frames).

The left lane, however, was a little different - mostly because my hand kept
sweating up and I couldn't get the shot I wanted! The second frame, I threw the
ball tight a little, but it carried well. The fourth frame, I left a 10-pin
(the ball came in behind the headpin, a little flat). The sixth frame was the
first time in 11 balls I had failed to nail the pocket (I was on - struck
in the 8th of the second game, missed a 10-pin in the 9th, then went double-
nine in the 10th). I don't think I've ever had that many really good shots
in a row before.

The 8th frame, I got caught on a 7-pin which came in light. I struck in the
9th, which meant that I had gone an entire game with nothing but strikes on
one side.

Our team was down 115 points for totals going into that final game. As the
third bowler, I went up and buried 2 balls in a row on the lane which had given
me the problems all night! I was so happy. The ball fell off my hand a bit on
the third shot, with the result that I left a really weird 2-8-10 split (weird
because I'm not a cranker).

I was especially happy because we won the 4th game (totals) by 14 pins or so.

Just thought I'd share that, because I came close to a Dutch 200 - I just kept
getting my spares, which was every bit as important as that strike in the
2nd frame which led to two doubles.

-=-Psycho

ps. On a related note, I've bowled 3 deuces in 4 games since ditching the
wrist braces! I feel so much better, and I think it allows me to get a much
'cleaner' feel of what I'm doing with my arm and my release during my swing.


WILLIAM HAROLD ROLLINS

unread,
Feb 15, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/15/96
to
Dave (75227...@CompuServe.COM) wrote:
: Don't know about most bowlers but personally I have no desire to
: shoot a dutch 200, would rather string some of the strikes and
: bowl 200+ and hopefully help my team win.

So if you go to your league and find out the oil machine screwed up after
doing one on your pair and there is such a drastic difference that you
can't find it that you wouldn't settle for a Dutch?

My next shot is the only one that matters.

BiNM


Jeff Lyons

unread,
Feb 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/16/96
to
Carl Fogelin <foge...@pt.cyanamid.com> wrote:

>Les Stevenson wrote:


>>
>> In article <4frucd$nq7$1...@mhade.production.compuserve.com>, Dave <75227...@CompuServe.COM> says:
>>
>> >Don't know about most bowlers but personally I have no desire to
>> >shoot a dutch 200, would rather string some of the strikes and
>> >bowl 200+ and hopefully help my team win.
>>

>> Dave, you could always put that wonderful Dutch 200 patch
>> on your bowling shirt. :-) Actually, I agree with you.

>Patches are a strange incentive. They reward you for something
>unusual, which is usually not an incentive to your team. I've
>come close to shooting Triples twice, but in both cases my score
>made no difference to the outcome and in both cases I did not
>consider it until my last ball. (You ought to try knocking four pins
>down out of a full wrack--came close.) I also almost shot an all
>spare game (I was so pissed in the 10th that I purposefully missed
>the lone 6 pin. At the time I didn't know there was a patch.)

>My Dutch 200, which started this thread, I can honestly say I wasn't
>really trying for. On the one lane I had so many tap variations
>that I was getting pissed; on the other lane I could do no wrong.
>This was done in a scratch league, so the important thing was to
>beat my opponent. It was a real close game and came down to the
>second ball in the 10th. I knew I had to carry at least 7 to win,
>so I threw an inside line instead of the outside line I was playing
>and was lucky enough not to split--I left a six pin. At that point
>I would have been stupid not to go for the Dutch 200.

>But, your point is well taken. People who adjust their game to get
>a patch are going against the spirit of the award. Let me ask you
>this, do you feel that way about all of the ABC awards, or just the
>weird ones? A bowler on my team shot a Big Four this year. The
>patch was just the "coux de gras". I was happy for the fellow, it
>really made his day. However, if he had Tripled with a sub-average
>score (which he purposefully threw), I would have been mad. I guess
>there definitely is a double-standard to this.

>Carl
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Carl Fogelin (foge...@pt.cyanamid.com) "All opinions are strictly mine"

> Computer pioneer Seymour Cray, described the characteristics of Virtual
> Memory Operating Systems as follows:

> Memory is like an orgasm. It's a lot better if you don't have to fake it.

Early this year, on my Sunday Mixed league, one of the gals bowled
an all spare game and a dutch 200--IN THE SAME SERIES! I had
never seen either one before, and she had BOTH. In both cases, it
came down to the last frame and she went for the patch. I was happy
for her. She did make it clear that if we would have lost by her
going for a spare instead of a strike, she'd never have gone for it.

Interesting follow-up: two weeks later she got a triplicate. 177s.
Her avg is about 165. We were all proud of her.

Jeff


Robert Rosenbach

unread,
Feb 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/18/96
to
In article <4fr994$p...@masala.cc.uh.edu>, st...@jetson.uh.edu
says...

>
>Pardon a newbie question here, but exactly what is a dutch 200?
>

A Dutch 200 is where you go strike-spare or spare-strike for the
whole game.

Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages