Can i fill with argon
Paul/Dee
with Argon.
I know you shouldn't fill with oxygen because its explosive but seeing as
Argon is inert Gas I can't see why I can't.
If anyone could point me in the right direction either by saying don't be
stupid or why not.
Cheers.
Adam Greatrix
news:gQfsa.1105$j94....@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
> Just a quick question, do you think it would be ok to fill my Air arms
s200
> with Argon.
Hmmm, curious one. I've heard of people using Argon in CO2 guns with
reasonable success.
Some things you might want to think about and I don't know which are
relevant or not:
1) Different gasses decompress at different rates. This could damage your
rifle if the gas decompresses too fast, or it could take you over the legal
limit.
2) Different gasses compress by different amounts. This will affect how many
shots you get, how much you can fill your gun by, and what pressure you can
achieve.
3) Some gasses become liquid at the pressures air guns use. Make sure Argon
is not one of them.
4) Argon is more expensive than CO2 and air (which is free if you use a pump
and still cheaper from a diver's shop).
Hope this helps, sorry it's not the definitive answer you wanted.
Adam
Anthony E Anson
from "Paul/Dee" <paul...@blueyonder.co.uk> contains these words:
Why?
Oh, and oxygen isn't explosive. (Though it does have an unfortunate
affinity with oil.)
--
Tony
Replace solidi with dots to reply: tony/anson snailything zetnet/co/uk
Sam
Hi Paul,
The quick answer is DEFINATELY NOT.
Whether argon is an inert gas or not is irrelevant. The
manufacturers made the rifle to use compressed air and no other gas.
They spend hundreds if not thousands of hours testing their product
with air, which is safe, providing you follow the instructions for its
use in your rifle. Other gases have different characteristics which
may seriously damage the rifle, the user or even kill.
NEVER, NEVER EVER put anything in a precharged gun other than air,
don`t even think about it.
If you can get written permission from the guns manufacturer to fill
with any other gas then go ahead........... you will never get it.
So the answer to your last question is, don`t be stupid.
Regards,
Keith
Adam Greatrix
"Anthony E Anson" <a...@seesig.co.uk> wrote in message
news:200305021...@seesig.co.uk...
> Oh, and oxygen isn't explosive. (Though it does have an unfortunate
> affinity with oil.)
I think he meant that the presence of pure oxygen (as opposed to air) can
result in explosions when you fire a gun. Flash point temperatures of oil is
much lower in oxygen than in air. Given that normal oils can diesel and
"pop" in the barrel of an air rifle, I would think that pure oxygen would
result in a much bigger bang and could well be enough to lower the flash
point of pellet lube to a point where it would ignite in the barrel.
A random related fact: If the Oxygen content of the atmosphere increased by
just 1% then you wouldn't be able to smoke tobacco as it would simply stay
alight (with flames) and not burn gradually (with a glowing red bit).
Adam
Anthony E Anson
from "Adam Greatrix" <exto...@nospam.hotmail.com> contains these words:
> > Oh, and oxygen isn't explosive. (Though it does have an unfortunate
> > affinity with oil.) ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
/\
/ \
Ż||Ż
> I think he meant that the presence of pure oxygen (as opposed to air) can
> result in explosions when you fire a gun. Flash point temperatures of oil is
> much lower in oxygen than in air. Given that normal oils can diesel and
> "pop" in the barrel of an air rifle, I would think that pure oxygen would
> result in a much bigger bang and could well be enough to lower the flash
> point of pellet lube to a point where it would ignite in the barrel.
> A random related fact: If the Oxygen content of the atmosphere increased by
> just 1% then you wouldn't be able to smoke tobacco as it would simply stay
> alight (with flames) and not burn gradually (with a glowing red bit).
Well, apart from the unliklihood of that assertion, the manufacturers
would only have to reduce the saltpetre content to overcome that effect,
if it were true.
Phew
> from "Paul/Dee" <paul...@blueyonder.co.uk> contains these words:
>
> > Just a quick question, do you think it would be ok to fill my Air arms
s200
> > with Argon.
> > I know you shouldn't fill with oxygen because its explosive but seeing
as
> > Argon is inert Gas I can't see why I can't.
> > If anyone could point me in the right direction either by saying don't
be
> > stupid or why not.
>
> Why?
>
> Oh, and oxygen isn't explosive. (Though it does have an unfortunate
> affinity with oil.)
>> If Anthony would have read the post and understood what was said he may
not have made the above snide remark.
James Sweet
flammable substances and with a lot of it they burn very well or explode.
"Paul/Dee" <paul...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:gQfsa.1105$j94....@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
Paul/Dee
airgun would cause a BIG problem.
I Was just wondering what would happen with Argoshield which is mainly
Argon . As I'm a welder I can free argon with no problem but to fill with
compressed air I need a divers bottle. I currently using a pump and I am
still suffering on the arm was thinking of a cheaper and quicker method of
filling,
"James Sweet" <james...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:GVHsa.185733$Si4.1...@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
James Sweet
problem it could possibly cause as long as you don't overpressurize it. Sure
the manufacture never certified it to run on argon but why would they? CO2
is easier to get for most people and is the standard propellant for such
things.
"Paul/Dee" <paul...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ARKsa.4888$7e5....@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
Paul/Dee
personally cant see why I can't Its just a means or pressurising the rifle.
As others have said as long as it doesn't liquefy there should be no
problems. if Co2 ok then can't see any reason why argon isn't Co2 tends to
freeze more easily than argon.
Cheers everyonenews:TNTsa.714442$3D1.393878@sccrnsc01...
Adam Greatrix
> Cheers James I'm going to give it a go . Nothing ventured nothing gained.
I'd be very interested to hear how it goes. But please, don't overpressurise
it until you're sure it's ok... try it at about 70% pressure first, just in
case. Remember what I said about different gasses compressing in different
ways...
If you do try it, fire some pellets through a chronograph and see if there
are any speed or power differences.
Adam
James Sweet
that I'd try it myself :)
"Paul/Dee" <paul...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:t2Usa.143$mo3...@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
E-Man
cylinder. You won't get liquid, and actually I'm pretty sure diver tanks run
higher pressure than compressed gas cylinders (3,000psig vs 2,200psig) so you
may find yourself filling more often rather than over pressurizing. Just make
sure whatever you're coupling with will not rupture under this very high
pressure while you're filling. My gas of choice would be nitrogen, but if you
can get argon for free, then that's great. I wouldn't use mixed gas. Not that it
would hurt anything, it just doesn't have all the advantages of a single gas. A
lot of guys that own race cars like to race their tools too :-) Air tools run
wicked on compressed nitrogen. A single gas will not striate, and always expands
at a constant rate. Also it is absolutely dry. No moisture to affect expansion
rate or ice up the internals. I rather think it would be quite accurate,
actually.
Oxygen shouldn't be a consideration at all. Oxygen does not burn or explode
itself, but make no mistake, oxygen is dangerous! As an oxydizer, or accelerant,
it will cause violent combustion of anything which is burning, and petroleum
products will spontaneously ignite in the presence of pure oxygen. That's why
oxygen regulators have "use no oil" stamped on them. Be carefull, and good
luck!
Paul/Dee wrote:
--
I appeal to your sense of logic to accept what I say on faith alone.
Joe
"Paul/Dee" <paul...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:gQfsa.1105$j94....@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
Adam Greatrix
"Joe" <joed...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:vbjjc6o...@corp.supernews.com...
> Did you try it? Are you still alive? In one piece? Joe
...yeah... the silence is making me nervous ;)
Adam
Anthony E Anson
from "Adam Greatrix" <exto...@nospam.hotmail.com> contains these words:
> "Joe" <joed...@charter.net> wrote in message
Well, I didn't hear a big bang...
Paul/Dee
Haven't done it yet going to take it in work today. Going to fill with pure
Argon.
Maybe I could fill with helium maybe that will make it lighter LOL.
I'll let you know what happens today ;-)news:200305081...@seesig.co.uk...
Mitch Haley
>
> Lmao No I'm ok.
> Haven't done it yet going to take it in work today. Going to fill with pure
> Argon.
> Maybe I could fill with helium maybe that will make it lighter LOL.
Helium will give you FAC problems. Wear hearing protection too.
Mitch.
Sean
in the air. The process works because one of the materials is hot (burning).
The heat makes the reaction possible.
Oxygen under high pressure can react without high temperatures, because the
pressure makes the reaction possible at lower temperatures.
From memory there are 3 types of common argon gas supplied for welding:-
Argomix, Argoshield, and pure argon for TIG (or TAG) welding (one of which
contains 5% CO2 and one contains 2% oxygen).
I would only consider using the pure argon, as even CO2 can be more reactive
than normal at high pressure.
Argon gas is one of the Noble gasses and does not react (chemically) with
anything at any temperature. It is stored as a compressed gas, rather than a
liquid, and is heavier than air and as such may give you more power due to
its momentum in the barrel.
Careful not to blow yourself up tho'
regards
Sean
Adam Greatrix
news:baip75$d95$1$8300...@news.demon.co.uk...
> even CO2 can be more reactive than normal at high pressure.
Hang on though, what about CO2 rifles? They kick out pellets at the full UK
12 ft-lbs and run on high pressure CO2... I'm not denying what you said is
true (i.e. CO2 is more reactive at high pressure - of course it is), but
surely it's still safe to use in air guns (wrong gas aside).
Adam
Sean
>
> Hang on though, what about CO2 rifles? They kick out pellets at the full
UK
> 12 ft-lbs and run on high pressure CO2... I'm not denying what you said is
> true (i.e. CO2 is more reactive at high pressure - of course it is), but
> surely it's still safe to use in air guns (wrong gas aside).
>
> Adam
>
>
the gas should be safe to use initially. One possible problem could be
damage to the seals over time. The matererial used to construct the seals
may not have been designed to withstand the corrosive action of CO2 at
upwards of 200 bar.
I am not sure of the pressure inside a standard CO2 capsule, but I am sure
it will be considerably lower than the pressure considered normal in a PCP
rifle. The seals in a CO2 powered weapon have a limited lifespan so surely
the seals would suffer more at a higher pressure all other things being
equal?
Just as an aside, I seem to remember from my chemistry lessons way back
when... that it is possible to burn things in carbon dioxide instead of
oxygen! (or air)
Sean
Sean
"Sean" <sourc...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:Iebza.3065$Xb4....@newsfep1-gui.server.ntli.net...
that it must be safe, since the air which would normally be pumped in will
certainly contain some CO2 anyway.
Sean
Mitch Haley
> One possible problem could be
> damage to the seals over time. The matererial used to construct the seals
> may not have been designed to withstand the corrosive action of CO2 at
> upwards of 200 bar.
You do not want to try to compress CO2 to 200bar.
http://www.warpig.com/paintball/technical/gasses/co2pv.gif
In reply to your earlier post, there is an inverse realtionship between
molecular weight and muzzle energy. Helium can often make 60-70% more
power than air in pcp rifles. It's not the weight of the air that
moves the pellet, it's the pressure, and lighter gas accelerates
quicker, hence more gas moves through the valve in the brief time
it is open.
Mitch.
Adam Greatrix
news:Iebza.3065$Xb4....@newsfep1-gui.server.ntli.net...
> when... that it is possible to burn things in carbon dioxide instead of
> oxygen! (or air)
Maybe under really high pressure... but lets face it, CO2 is used as one of
the main three types of fire extinguishers (water, CO2 and powder), so it
can't be THAT much of a benefit to things that want to ignite or burn.
Adam