How loud are these air rifles?
Dan
anymore without annoying the neighbors. So I am looking to buy a good
spring powered air rifle instead, preferably a fairly quiet one. Mainly to
punch paper, but this area is absolutely swarming with crows so I would like
enough power to kill some of them too. (The God damned things crap on my
car every day!!!) Looking through my various sporting goods catalogs and a
few internet airgun shops, the following rifles have caught my eye,
Air Arms Pro-Sport - expensive but it looks beautiful!
Beeman R1, R6 and R9 - is the R6 powerful enough for crows at 20-30m?
Webley Stingray and Tomahawk -
I live in the US and am not restricted to 12ft-lbs - in fact, I don't think
US retailers even sell the reduced power non-FAC versions here. So these
rifles would be in their full power form. Bearing that in mind, if you have
used any of these rifles, which are the quiet ones?
Appreciate any help,
Dan
GTO69RA4
pre-charged guns have a pretty loud report. Even the Daisy 880 I have makes a
loud crack at maximum power.
You know, the Finnish promote the use of silencers on firearms to cut down on
noise pollution! Now that's a good idea.
GTO(John)
Michael Edelman
> Good springers make a mechanical noise. No problem there. Most pump-up or
> pre-charged guns have a pretty loud report. Even the Daisy 880 I have makes a
> loud crack at maximum power.
The louder spring guns make a bit of a crack, too. My 18 ft-lb Theoben makes a
surprisingly loud sound.
>
> >Air Arms Pro-Sport - expensive but it looks beautiful!
Excellent gun. Quiet and accurate. I have a tuned TX-200 form the same maker I
used in competition.
> >Beeman R1, R6 and R9 - is the R6 powerful enough for crows at 20-30m?
You don't need much power. You need accuracy. Any of the gun mentioned can do
the job at 30m.
>
> >Webley Stingray and Tomahawk -
Skip them. The Weirauch (i.e., Beeman R-1) and Air Arms guns have much better
triggers.
Of the bunch, I'd recommend the Air Arms Pro Sport with Crosman 7.5gr Premier
pellets as the quietest high-powered, accurate gun.
Keep in mind that a pellet, while not as dangerous as a .22LR, is still
dangerous! As always, be sure of your backstop. I shoot airguns in the basement
but not in my suburban back yard. Instead I drive a few miles to a friend's
house, as his back yard is 1/4 mile deep!
-- mike
-----------------------------------
Michael Edelman m...@spamcop.net
http://www.foldingkayaks.org
http://www.findascope.com
VT
>Air Arms Pro-Sport - expensive but it looks beautiful!
>Beeman R1, R6 and R9 - is the R6 powerful enough for crows at 20-30m?
>Webley Stingray and Tomahawk -
>
>I live in the US and am not restricted to 12ft-lbs - in fact, I don't think
>US retailers even sell the reduced power non-FAC versions here. So these
>rifles would be in their full power form. Bearing that in mind, if you have
>used any of these rifles, which are the quiet ones?
>
Of your list the Air Arms Pro_sport is the quietest - as it has a
barrel-shroud that acts as a "silencer" (note - as I found out
removable silencers are illegal in some states and in other one has to
purchase a $200 license to own one)
However mid-power springers are relatively quiet and I don't think any
of these would be objectionable when compared to similar powered
pneumatic guns.
You might want to look at the BSA SuperSport - which is considered by
many well respected airgunners as hard to beat at under $200.
.177cal is better for punching paper - but .22cal is generally better
for varmint shooting - however there are many who consider
".22cal for fur and .177cal for feathers"
and I cannot argue with that - but I really like the .22cal for a
general purpose air-rifle in the mid-power range.
--
Vincent
remove CLOTHES when replying
Dan
Dan
anything.
Thanks for the input Mike. I'm a sucker for blue and walnut so a Webley
Tomahawk in walnut for $400 new is tempting, but not if it has a bad
trigger.
You recommend .177 with a fairly light pellet. I was thinking that .20 or
.22 with a light for caliber wadcutter would have more weight to smack crows
than .177 and also more drag for a lower ballistic coefficient so as to not
carry too far if I miss at a high angle. Given the same airgun, can you
tell me if a larger bore size would be appreciably louder?
My yard is on a narrow strip of trees that is a couple hundred yards long,
the crows live in the trees. Aiming up or down along that strip I have a
20 degree field of fire where I will be able to shoot at the crows without a
high angled miss landing near anyone's house. I will put together a
newspaper filled trap for horizontal shooting with a big sheet of plywood
behind that, bystanders need not worry!
Lastly, browsing around the net, the best deal I can find on a Pro-Sport
looks to be about $550 without the optics. Think I can do better than that?
Appreciate the help,
Dan
"Michael Edelman" <m...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:3C4DAFA4...@spamcop.net...
Dan
of them! As the Pro-Sport's "silencer" seems to be built into the barrel
and can't be taken off for use with a real firearm, I don't think it would
be a verboten device. If it were, surely there wouldn't be so many US
dealers selling them.
(Such an utterly nonsensical law - why do they want American sportsmen to go
deaf?)
The BSA Supersport at $200 seems like a good deal but I am looking to spend
a bit more than that. Unless of course it's as polished and precise as the
$300 Beemans or $400 Webleys, in which case I'm all ears!
Thanks for the input,
Dan
"VT" <vtvi...@CLOTHESprodigy.net> wrote in message
news:3c4ddb62...@news.prodigy.net...
VT
> I'm a sucker for blue and walnut so a Webley
>Tomahawk in walnut for $400 new is tempting, but not if it has a bad
>trigger.
>
One of the best triggers for a Sporter air-rifle is the Rekord trigger
found on the Wiehrauchs (HW) - which are imported as the Beeman
R-series.
The Air Arms triggers are also very good indeed.
So your initial selections have some of the best triggers in the
business.
>You recommend .177 with a fairly light pellet. I was thinking that .20 or
>.22 with a light for caliber wadcutter would have more weight to smack crows
>than .177 and also more drag for a lower ballistic coefficient so as to not
>carry too far if I miss at a high angle.
All things being equal a lighter and faster velocity pellet will lose
energy faster - than a heavier slower one of the same shape.
So .177cal generally lose energy quicker than the same shaped pellets
in .22cal.
You can study the velocity tests from Straight Shooters with several
different pellets and downrange velocities out to 50 yards- and decide
for yourself.
They have tested the Beeman R1, R9, and R6 - and the Air Arms
Pro-Elite and TX-200 (but unfortunately not the Pro-Sport) The Webley
Tomahawk is there too
http://www.straightshooters.com/genmenus/ourtake.html
The velocity tests are there as a link on the individual gun's pages.
> Given the same airgun, can you
>tell me if a larger bore size would be appreciably louder?
>
Straight Shooters also do decibel sound level tests for some of the
guns too. Here's the link:
http://www.straightshooters.com/docs/decibc.html
>
>Lastly, browsing around the net, the best deal I can find on a Pro-Sport
>looks to be about $550 without the optics. Think I can do better than that?
>
$519 at:
http://www.pomona-airguns.com/1.htm
Michael Edelman
> I am aware of of the Class III laws, and certainly do not want to break any
> of them! As the Pro-Sport's "silencer" seems to be built into the barrel
> and can't be taken off for use with a real firearm, I don't think it would
> be a verboten device.
Correct. If it's a permanent part of the gun, it's okay, as air rifles are not
firearms under US law.
Not all airgun silencers would work as firearms silencers. The really big cans I
saw in England on pneumatic guns certainly would, but most of the units I saw
there there were tiny expansion chambers designed for spring guns, not pneumatic
guns, and wouldn't affect the report of a .22 much, if at all.
The way the BATF makes the determination of whether something is a silencer is
simple: They mount it to a .22. That's interesting as a lot of common objects
would work that way!
For a time unscrupulous vendors were selling threaded barrels and adapters that
allowed you to mount a standard large pop bottle to the barrel, which made a
very effective silencer! Does this mean all pop bottles are silencers? The BATF
decided the *adapter* was the forbidden article. Of course the adapter was a
small piece of steel with a two different threads.
Well over 25 years ago I discovered that a bicycle handlegrip slid over the
barrel of my Crosman 454 BB pistol made a very effective silencer for hunting
cockroaches in my apartment. It probably had enough volume to appreciably quiet
a .22 short. Does this mean the BATF might go after bicycle hand grips????
> (Such an utterly nonsensical law - why do they want American sportsmen to go
> deaf?)
Like many other laws, it was in response to hysteria fired up by a few
newspapers and politicians looking for demons to flog to increase their own
popularity. (The illegality of silencers doesn't seem to affect the murder rate
much.)
> The BSA Supersport at $200 seems like a good deal but I am looking to spend
> a bit more than that. Unless of course it's as polished and precise as the
> $300 Beemans or $400 Webleys, in which case I'm all ears!
It's a very good deal. The Beeman-labeled HW guns are very good, but I am less
fond of the Beeman labeled Spanish guns. Good guns, but not in the same
category. My favorite spring guns are the various Air Arms guns (in your price
range, perhaps) and the various Theobens (probably a bit higher than you're
interested in).
Remling
> My job has moved me to suburbia and I can't shoot my .22s in the backyard
> anymore without annoying the neighbors.
Believe it or not, some low power 22 rounds, specifically CB caps ~30 FPE,
when shot from a long barreled rifle are quieter than some pellet guns.
Accuracy usually isn't stellar for a variety of reasons.
An old roommate of mine managed to shoot over 300 squirrels from his bedroom
window with a 22 loaded with stingers when he was a kid. Nothing
particularly special about this, except that he lived in the city of Albany
with houses cheek by jowl al around him. Even had his cat trained to point
out the tree rats and cart them away (I witnessed the cat in action once).
Of course the fact that his father was a judge may have had something to do
with his getting away with it...
Dave
your .22 rifle.
With sub sonic ammo you only hear the click of the action.
I have an idea however that silencers are illegal in USA.
GTO69RA4
Not illegal, but you have to fill out a moutain of paperwork and pay a $200
tax. Isn't worth it for me.
GTO(John)
Michael Edelman
And in some states, like Michigan,. it is indeed illegal. No class 3 toys
allowed, period.
--
Dan
need the approval of the local chief of police and as the ones around here
are all leftists, I'm out of luck. I can't get a CCW permit either, for the
same reason.
Furthermore, a suppressed .22 is legally a firearm and so could cause much
more legal trouble for me than an air rifle.
"Dave" <shco...@aol.comNoJunk> wrote in message
news:20020124085949...@mb-fw.aol.com...
Dan
information there!
Their sound level tests do not seem very consistent to me though, as you
would expect the loudest rifle at one distance to maintain that placing at
the others.
More useful to me is their chronograph data for different pellet styles, as
it confirms what I expected: that a light for caliber, wadcutter .22 pellet
will lose energy just as quickly as a lighter .177.
Appreciate the help,
Dan
"VT" <vtvi...@CLOTHESprodigy.net> wrote in message
news:3c4e51ed...@news.prodigy.net...
BlackEagle
(http://www.airforceairguns.com) I have just bought one of these. It has a
Legal!! silencer and is very quiet it is more than capable of dispatching a
rabbit or crow. I bought mine to dispatch the preponderance of rats that
seem to infest NC. I love how quiet it is due to the fact I live in a
neighborhood full of Psychotic PETA people and overly PC nitwits. I find
beeman CroMagnum pellets work best in it. As an American I am so happy that
we have not been stripped of the ability to own a powerful airgun.
--
BlackEagle
Knowledge is Power
Freedom is Life
"Dan" <ano...@time.com> wrote in message
news:yk138.8483$067.3...@news1.rdc1.md.home.com...
Joseph Lovell
BlackEagle wrote:
>
> I for one would suggest a Talon SS from AirForce
> (http://www.airforceairguns.com) I have just bought one of these. It has a
> Legal!! silencer and is very quiet it is more than capable of dispatching a
> rabbit or crow. I bought mine to dispatch the preponderance of rats that
> seem to infest NC. I love how quiet it is due to the fact I live in a
> neighborhood full of Psychotic PETA people and overly PC nitwits.
Is NC North Carolina or Northern California? I thought that North
Carolina was a place where you could count the PETA and PC types on the
fingers of your left foot.
Joseph
from semi-rural Northern California.
BlackEagle
a mini California. We even have a quasi communist community owned market.
and if you haven't herd the deer are over running the place due to hunting
not being allowed.
--
BlackEagle
Knowledge is Power
Freedom is Life
"Joseph Lovell" <sub...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:3C536C22...@sonic.net...
Joseph Lovell
But don't knock the community markets - there is often really tasty
stuff there at cut rate prices.
Joseph
(getting more and more pissed off at CA politicians)
MR
I have a .22 RWS 94 and a Gamo .177 Young Hunter.
Are there any kind of restrictions for these airguns? I thought we could
shoot them in my backyard as long as I do not let the pellets fly to the
neightbours' yards.
About the silencers, I use my guns mostly for pest control (rats and mice)
at night. What is this Class 3 all about? I was planning to get a silencer
for the guns in order to not disturb the neighbours at night (when the rats
show off).
Another question. I noticed the Diana 54 .22 was not recommended. I
thought it would be a good gun because it is recoiless. Any advice against
it?
I was planning to bring it from Germany, however, I'm wondering if there are
restrictions to bring airguns from abroad. I've heard we cannot bring
weapons from abroad (and I see tons of imported weapons in gunshows...).
Thanks in advance.
Cheers!
Mario
"Dan" <ano...@time.com> wrote in message
news:SS448.1707$8d1.5...@news1.rdc1.md.home.com...
MR
I have a .22 RWS 94 and a Gamo .177 Young Hunter.
Are there any kind of restrictions for these airguns? I thought we could
shoot them in my backyard as long as I do not let the pellets fly to the
neightbours' yards.
About the silencers, I use my guns mostly for pest control (rats and mice)
at night. What is this Class 3 all about? I was planning to get a silencer
for the guns in order to not disturb the neighbours at night (when the rats
show off).
Another question. I noticed the Diana 54 .22 was not recommended. I
thought it would be a good gun because it is recoiless. Any advice against
it?
I was planning to bring it from Germany, however, I'm wondering if there are
restrictions to bring airguns from abroad. I've heard we cannot bring
weapons from abroad (and I see tons of imported weapons in gunshows...).
Thanks in advance.
Cheers!
Mario
"Joseph Lovell" <sub...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:3C577B6C...@sonic.net...
LMHAMRIC
>at night.
Just out of curiosity, how do you shoot effectively at night. I've tried
shooting in low light conditions and gotten terrible results. Laser sight?
Flashlight? ?
MR
placed around 30 yards from the "target acquisition area".
I then use a night vision scope to pinpoint the "targets".
I'm using a 8-18x50 Bushnell Banner scope. The ratio 7 or above between
eyepice and objective lenses gives me clarity good enough to shoot at those
conditions.
The problem is those folks learn fast, so I have to change the way I set the
"target area", such as changing bait location, etc.
Also, it's necessary to be very patient and wait for the correct moment to
shoot. The mice do not stop for too long.
Busted 6 mice in a couple months. Not too many, but enough to keep them
away from the bird feeders, which they do not get close by anylonger. :-))
During the day I use tennis balls, little mice outlines and other little
targets just to practice. Now I'm thinking how to make movng targets.
Shooting non-moving ones is getting boring.
"LMHAMRIC" <lmha...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020211033546...@mb-fz.aol.com...
Joseph Oberlander
>
> Hi,
>
> I have a .22 RWS 94 and a Gamo .177 Young Hunter.
> Are there any kind of restrictions for these airguns? I thought we could
> shoot them in my backyard as long as I do not let the pellets fly to the
> neightbours' yards.
Lots of them, unfortunately. Some cities are very restrictive. As for
flying into their yards, pellets can travel a very long distance.
> About the silencers, I use my guns mostly for pest control (rats and mice)
> at night. What is this Class 3 all about? I was planning to get a silencer
> for the guns in order to not disturb the neighbours at night (when the rats
> show off).
I wouldn't bother. There's nothing much you can do as silencers only
work on supersonic soundwaves. The main "thwap" will still be there
and carry a fair deal at night. I use .22CB rounds myself - they
are about as powerful as a high-power airgun but only 500 fps. Nobody
has complained to date, but many rodents and squirels have(eat my friut
and nuts - grrr).
Remmington makes CBs as well as CCI. RWS also makes these things that
look like large starter pistol rounds. I like the RWS but they tend
to have feeding problems. The CCI are a CB in a short case, so they
will feed in a pump rifle that can accept shorts. CCI even makes a
CB long, IIRC. The best though are Remington's - lowest sound and
a slightly heavier bullet.
> Another question. I noticed the Diana 54 .22 was not recommended. I
> thought it would be a good gun because it is recoiless. Any advice against
> it?
It is a fine, although expensive gun. .22 isn't in favor for target
shooting, but it is great for pest control. I always have used .22
myself after having to shoot a huge rat three times with a .177 .20
is a good compromise and many people swear by it. I like the
heaviest pellets that I can find - Beeman makes very nice pellets
meant for serious hunting.
> I was planning to bring it from Germany, however, I'm wondering if there are
> restrictions to bring airguns from abroad. I've heard we cannot bring
> weapons from abroad (and I see tons of imported weapons in gunshows...).
About shipping from overseas, it has to be shipped to a firearms
dealer.
Mitch Haley
Joseph Oberlander wrote:
>
> MR wrote:
>
> > I was planning to bring it from Germany, however, I'm wondering if there are
> > restrictions to bring airguns from abroad. I've heard we cannot bring
> > weapons from abroad (and I see tons of imported weapons in gunshows...).
>
> About shipping from overseas, it has to be shipped to a firearms
> dealer.
Are you saying that Germany will not allow export other than to a
firearms dealer, or that there is a federal law saying only firearms
dealers can import airguns in the US, or are you quoting a law specific
to the state in which you live? (New Jersey, for instance, has some
silly laws.)
Mitch.
Joseph Oberlander
As far as I know, customs will only allow it to be imported to a
firearms dealer or simmilar distributor/factory. Check your local
laws, but that's what it was in California last I checked. They got
a lot stricter in the last few months, especially out east, so check
first and save hastles.
MR
speed/power limitations in Europe.
I'm evaluating a Kodiak (.25) and the Career (9mm) for the pest control.
However, I've been told that the Career makes a lot of noise.
Any advice?
Cheers!
Mario
"Joseph Oberlander" <josephob...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3C7E9608...@earthlink.net...
Remling
serious size "pests" . Really, you are into 22 territory with this gun. I
have a 707 in 22 and it easily clears 2x4s It also sounds quite a bit louder
than a 22 when the wick is turned up. If you don't need the 9mm power level
or need it only occasionally, I would recommend a 22 rifle. You can get a
22 for a lot less money than a 707. I use CB caps myself. I also recommend
the Remington brand. They are not as accurate as standard 22s in my
experience and generate about 30-35 ftlbs. a good reason to go with the
longer case CBs over the shorts it that they don't freebore like the shorts
so leading the chamber is not so much an issue.
a CB cap shot from a long barreled 22 rifle is quieter than many high
powered pellet guns, at least to my ears. Note they will not function an
action so bolt guns and single shots are preferred to semi autos.
the 9mm 707 strikes me as a fairly narrow purpose gun. If you occasionally
require it's power, it is probably a lot more cost effective to use a
cartridge firearm on those occasions and buy a more standard caliber airgun
for general shooting, which will probably account for most of your shooting.
High power shooting in a 707 means a lot of air/pumping.
I have read that the Kodiak requires some practice, above the usual spring
gun level, to become profecient. - I have no personnel experience with this
gun, As I recall those same sources stated that the gun can be pellet
sensitive, but when sorted out it is fairly accurate.
At lower power levels, the 707 has less noise.
if your principal usage is pest control and you want an airgun, look at the
Ben/Sher's. Mac 1 can provide a steroid upgrade to boost powerlevels into
the 20+ftlb range (stock is 12) the guns are a lot less expensive than
either of the others, are easier to shoot than the Kodak and don't require
an airtank or pump like the 707. I have had a Sheridan for more than 30
years and it is still strong. It likes CPs rather than the cylindrical
Sheridan pellets
"MR" <msro...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ijBf8.25065$0C1.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Joseph Oberlander
>
> Thanks a lot! I decided to buy the new one here in US because of the
> speed/power limitations in Europe.
>
> I'm evaluating a Kodiak (.25) and the Career (9mm) for the pest control.
> However, I've been told that the Career makes a lot of noise.
Yes, it is a monster - you are far better off with .22CB caps in a
small rifle than the Career. Beeman makes nice guns and .25 is a good
choice, but also consider a nice FWB .22 - they tend to be more accurate
and almost as efficient.
Joseph Oberlander
>
> Assuming you can and do your part, a 9mm Career can be used to dispatch
> serious size "pests" . Really, you are into 22 territory with this gun. I
> have a 707 in 22 and it easily clears 2x4s It also sounds quite a bit louder
> than a 22 when the wick is turned up. If you don't need the 9mm power level
> or need it only occasionally, I would recommend a 22 rifle. You can get a
> 22 for a lot less money than a 707. I use CB caps myself. I also recommend
> the Remington brand. They are not as accurate as standard 22s in my
> experience and generate about 30-35 ftlbs. a good reason to go with the
> longer case CBs over the shorts it that they don't freebore like the shorts
> so leading the chamber is not so much an issue.
>
> a CB cap shot from a long barreled 22 rifle is quieter than many high
> powered pellet guns, at least to my ears. Note they will not function an
> action so bolt guns and single shots are preferred to semi autos.
I second this - CCI makes a .22 CB long that is superb and can be cycled
in my Rossi Pump - a very nice combo. The Remington, though, is the best for
low noise. It actually comes closer to 28ft-lbs and is comparable to most
airguns. It is the lowest energy .22 round that you can buy and for your
purposes, this is exactly what you need. It also cycles in my pump as
it can handle .22 short as well.
The advantage is that a small pump gun is a lot easier to handle, aim, and
most of all, load.(cocking a 25 ft lb .22-.25 cal airgun is work) The .22
just requires a fast pump to get off a second shot.
- The Remington 572 Fieldmaster is a fine gun but a bit expensive and heavy.
OTOH, it is built like a proverbial tank. Not mistaken by neighbors as
an airgun. .22 shorts will fed and it is 2/3 the cost of the Winchester
level action.
- The Rossi is another choice IMO. It is small, light, inexpensive, and
durable.
Unfortunately, they stopped making it a while ago. It isn't a fast seller
though, so you can likely find one at a local gun store. Better neighbor
acceptance factor as well. Unfortunately, .22 shorts may not fed right.
Remling
what kind of accuracy are you getting from CB caps. I am using a Remington
541T - this is a basically their target action and bull barrel in a sporter
stock. It is a fairly accurate piece with the right ammo. With CBs the
accuracy is plinking at best. As I recall it wouldn't hold the black of a
50 foot gallery target at 50 feet with CBs from rest. In my gun I wouldn't
use them past 50 feet for head shots on squirrels, but then the originator
of this thread didn't state the size of, or distance to, the "pests"
It is interesting to shoot them 100 yards or so and watch them arc downward
through the scope. they are big/slow enough to be easilly seen. With all
the talk about silencers and such on airguns, it is interesting to note how
few people are fmiliar with CB and just how quite they are.
Have you tried Remington's subsonics? They are significantly quieter than
standard fair but not as quiet as the CBs?
reading from the back of the box, Remington rates them at 30 grains
Muzzle 720fps/34ftlbs 50 yards 640fps/27ftlbs
BTW, I never put one through the crono.. Perhaps tomorrow...
Joseph Oberlander
> I second this - CCI makes a .22 CB long that is superb and can be cycled
> in my Rossi Pump - a very nice combo. The Remington, though, is the best for
> low noise. It actually comes closer to 28ft-lbs and is comparable to most
> airguns.
It turns out that remington no longer makes .22 CB Short. Sigh.
Joseph Oberlander
>
> Joe:
>
> what kind of accuracy are you getting from CB caps. I am using a Remington
> 541T - this is a basically their target action and bull barrel in a sporter
> stock. It is a fairly accurate piece with the right ammo. With CBs the
> accuracy is plinking at best. As I recall it wouldn't hold the black of a
> 50 foot gallery target at 50 feet with CBs from rest. In my gun I wouldn't
> use them past 50 feet for head shots on squirrels, but then the originator
> of this thread didn't state the size of, or distance to, the "pests"
>
> It is interesting to shoot them 100 yards or so and watch them arc downward
> through the scope. they are big/slow enough to be easilly seen. With all
> the talk about silencers and such on airguns, it is interesting to note how
> few people are fmiliar with CB and just how quite they are.
Yes - airguns are quite loud if they are powerful, but these things just
get lost - people don't even turn their heads - its just a simple "thwap".
I take out squirels/Gophers/Rats all the time and the neighbors never know
I do it.
> Have you tried Remington's subsonics? They are significantly quieter than
> standard fair but not as quiet as the CBs?
Yes I tried them - they no longer make their subsonic CB shorts anymore.
Bummer too - looked on the box - 22 grains, 540 fps.
Guess I have to go out and buy up all the old stock I can find - sigh.
> reading from the back of the box, Remington rates them at 30 grains
>
> Muzzle 720fps/34ftlbs 50 yards 640fps/27ftlbs
Accuracy:
The best are RWS - though they are pricey. They come in a small tin
like airgun pellets. These are BB caps - they have to be manually
laoaded every shot as they are half as long as a .22 short.
750fps, 17 grains. - half the energy of the subsonic above, but
half the weight means very good accuracy as well. $13.50 for a tin
of 100. I love them. They are about 20% more noisy than the CCI
and about 2/3 as loud as subsonic - just at my limit but I'm paranoid.
The CB cap is round and the BB is pointed. I found that it makes no
difference.
Noise:
I looked at 22ammo.com and Aguila makes a Remington clone.
20 grains, 575 fps. $3 for a box of 50. They also make a tiny one
at 375 fps - that's like firing a .22 Kodiak pellet out of a normal
airgun. $1.75 for a box of 50.
I expect these to be extremely accurate as well compared to
the CCI you likely tried. 29 grains and 720fps is just asking to miss,
IMO. The CCI is quiet, but if you can order the Aguila or find some
old Remingtons, you'll swear by them - they are inaudable at more
than 30 ft and perfect for nightime use.
MR
A friend of mine suggested me purchasing a .22 firearm with the low power
cartridges.
However, I decided for the air guns because I imagined they would be much
less powerful and, therefore, less prone to accidents due to missed targets.
Most common "targets" are mice and big rats. Both must be taken at night.
Occasionally a squirrel if it "crosses the line". Otherwise, just plinking
in the backyard.
The idea of a standard .22 is interesting for the point that I can switch
ammo depending on the target size. However, I'm still concerned about the
power. The last think I want it a lost bullet on a neighbour's yard. For
what I saw about airgund they lose power and penetration capacity quite fast
if compared to the standard firearms. Or am I missing something?
Also, because most of the hunting is at night (mice and rats), any nose
propagates much farther away. Which requires a silent gun.
The models, in .25in, I've been checking are the RWS 48, the Kodiak and the
Crow Magnum. The latter quite expensive, therefore unlikely to be
purchased.
Some information I've found about those two are confusing. Some places show
the RWS48 with 750fps and the Kodiak with 775fps. However, Diana's website
show the model 48 with only 600fps. Would it be because of the power
limitation in Europe?
Cheers!
Mario
"Joseph Oberlander" <josephob...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3C800EFB...@earthlink.net...
Joseph Oberlander
>
> Well, thanks a lot for the advices.
>
> A friend of mine suggested me purchasing a .22 firearm with the low power
> cartridges.
> However, I decided for the air guns because I imagined they would be much
> less powerful and, therefore, less prone to accidents due to missed targets.
Sure - but frankly, airguns are just as dangerous.
> The idea of a standard .22 is interesting for the point that I can switch
> ammo depending on the target size. However, I'm still concerned about the
> power. The last think I want it a lost bullet on a neighbour's yard. For
> what I saw about airgund they lose power and penetration capacity quite fast
> if compared to the standard firearms. Or am I missing something?
Low-power CB rounds are very very low power. 17-20 grains. .22 cal.
550-750 fps. This is *exactly* what a RWS 48 or 52 does in .22 cal
with Kodiak or simmilar heavy pellets. Same balistics as well - or
very close.
> Also, because most of the hunting is at night (mice and rats), any nose
> propagates much farther away. Which requires a silent gun.
Nothing is more silent, IMO, than a CB round. They even make a 350 fps
ultra-low power round for close rat shots.
> Some information I've found about those two are confusing. Some places show
> the RWS48 with 750fps and the Kodiak with 775fps. However, Diana's website
> show the model 48 with only 600fps. Would it be because of the power
> limitation in Europe?
Most likely. Again, compare - same callibre, same velocity, and same
pellet/bullet mass. This is why I favor CB rounds for pest control.
Now, airguns ARE good for some things - where noise isn't a prime
concern and where you need long-range precise shots(say a bird).
YMMV - but I would go to a range and try out some.
Keith
>Well, thanks a lot for the advices.
>
>A friend of mine suggested me purchasing a .22 firearm with the low power
>cartridges.
>However, I decided for the air guns because I imagined they would be much
>less powerful and, therefore, less prone to accidents due to missed targets.
>
>Most common "targets" are mice and big rats. Both must be taken at night.
>Occasionally a squirrel if it "crosses the line". Otherwise, just plinking
>in the backyard.
>
>The idea of a standard .22 is interesting for the point that I can switch
>ammo depending on the target size. However, I'm still concerned about the
>power. The last think I want it a lost bullet on a neighbour's yard. For
>what I saw about airgund they lose power and penetration capacity quite fast
>if compared to the standard firearms.
> Or am I missing something?
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nope, the CB cap has a solid lead bullet while pellets have that skirt
hanging off the back end. Go fling a tennis ball the follow up with a
badminton birdie and see which one sheds velocity faster.
----
Some .22 pellet rifles to look at:
A friend has a couple of AA Prosports(sharp looking) which are nice
guns but I like my AA TX200(cocking linkage is more robust) just fine.
Both are fine underlever rifles and have shrouded barrels.
AA Pro Elite is break barrel w/shrouded barrel and the new Webley
Tomahawk is being imported by Mac1 has the Venom custom shop shrouded
barrel. Keith
VT
>Well, thanks a lot for the advices.
>
>A friend of mine suggested me purchasing a .22 firearm with the low power
>cartridges.
>However, I decided for the air guns because I imagined they would be much
>less powerful and, therefore, less prone to accidents due to missed targets.
>
>Most common "targets" are mice and big rats. Both must be taken at night.
>Occasionally a squirrel if it "crosses the line". Otherwise, just plinking
>in the backyard.
>
>The idea of a standard .22 is interesting for the point that I can switch
>ammo depending on the target size. However, I'm still concerned about the
>power. The last think I want it a lost bullet on a neighbour's yard. For
>what I saw about airgund they lose power and penetration capacity quite fast
>if compared to the standard firearms. Or am I missing something?
>
>Also, because most of the hunting is at night (mice and rats), any nose
>propagates much farther away. Which requires a silent gun.
>
Allow me to butt in here late.......
Looking at your intended quarry - mice, large rats and squirrels -
Then adding your very responsible attitude regarding power levels and
dangers downrange and neighbors, as well as being considerate of
noise levels......
You may not like this suggestion - for you intended quarry you DON'T
need that much power or a large caliber of even .25cal -
Here's a useful table from Dr Beeman:
http://www.beemans.net/field%20use.htm
(about 1/2 way down the page)
He is suggesting at the point of impact:
English sparrow, mouse etc. 2 FPE
Squirrel, starling, pigeon 3 FPE
Rat, rabbit 5 FPE
Jackrabbit 8 FPE
Note these are energy at the point of impact and _not_ just energy at
the muzzle.
So your toughest quarry is the rat that requires about 5fpe at the PoI
- even allowing for a BIG rat it will still be in the range of about
6fpe allowing for a safety margin.
Most "mid-"power air-rifles in the 12-15fpe range will still be doing
over 6fpe even at 50 yards -
and I'm not aware of that many people who can hit the kill zone on a
rat _consistently_ at 50 yards - so for more normal rat distances most
likely well under 20 yards and more like 3 to 10 yards - a mid-powered
air-rifle is already more than adequate at 2-3 times the required
energy levels ........ mice? only require 2fpe -- with the right
pellet out of a mid powered air-rifle will probably still have that
kind of energy at over 100yards - I assume you wouldn't be trying to
shoot mice at over 100yards? :)
I mean, how many times over power can you kill something?
If 5fpe at a vital spot will kill the thing - will 30fpe kill it even
more/better?
So, if you're willing to even consider a mid-powered air-rifle at
12-15fpe ME - then the world really opens up for you - most springers
in that power range are intrinsitcally QUIET and relatively easy to
shoot and even better inexpensive - here are some that are worth your
while looking at all in .22cal:
Under $250
BSA SuperSport
Beeman R9 (but only in .177 and .20)
Webley Xocet
Webley Stingray
RWS/Diana 34
More expensive but still v. nice -
Air Arms TX-200
Air Arms Pro-Elite
Beeman RX-2
Good luck..........
Joseph Oberlander
>
> On Sat, 02 Mar 2002 03:57:04 GMT, "MR" <msro...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Well, thanks a lot for the advices.
> >
> >A friend of mine suggested me purchasing a .22 firearm with the low power
> >cartridges.
> >However, I decided for the air guns because I imagined they would be much
> >less powerful and, therefore, less prone to accidents due to missed targets.
> >
> >Most common "targets" are mice and big rats. Both must be taken at night.
> >Occasionally a squirrel if it "crosses the line". Otherwise, just plinking
> >in the backyard.
> >
> >The idea of a standard .22 is interesting for the point that I can switch
> >ammo depending on the target size. However, I'm still concerned about the
> >power. The last think I want it a lost bullet on a neighbour's yard. For
> >what I saw about airgund they lose power and penetration capacity quite fast
> >if compared to the standard firearms.
> > Or am I missing something?
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Nope, the CB cap has a solid lead bullet while pellets have that skirt
> hanging off the back end. Go fling a tennis ball the follow up with a
> badminton birdie and see which one sheds velocity faster.
The main reason they do this is to maximize the use of the air for
velocity. Sure, it helps, but at subsonic ranges, the exact shape doesn't
matter very much. Now, with the CB round, there is ample propellant
to get the job done.