Why is a brass barrel better?
Greg
improves accuracy, but by how much. It sounds nice, but seems to up the
price
by about $100 US. Is it worth it?
Ross Lewis
writes
Hi
I would certainly have thought that there would be an advantage in
maintenance due to there being a far better corrosion resistance in
Brass against steel.
--
Ross Lewis
http://www.esox.demon.co.uk
Dan Bollinger
in the barrel, and target grade firearm barrels don't exactly corrode
quickly. Besides, why not stainless instead of brass, it's more corrosion
resistant and more abrasion resistant, too. Dan
Ross Lewis <ro...@esox.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:6xK85EAu...@esox.demon.co.uk...
Daniel H Lauring
steel. That is why it is used in airgun barrels....more consistent and
higher velocities.
--
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Bungalow/9795/
Digital Camera and Video Camera tidbits
Ross Lewis wrote in message <25A$bCAEXw...@esox.demon.co.uk>...
>In article <uXB24.881$I86....@news.rdc1.il.home.com>, Dan Bollinger
><danbol...@home.com> writes
>>Ross Corrosion resistance? Of what!? It's not like something is
burning
>>in the barrel, and target grade firearm barrels don't exactly corrode
>>quickly. Besides, why not stainless instead of brass, it's more corrosion
>>resistant and more abrasion resistant, too. Dan
>
>Hi Dan
>
>The only source of corrosion I could possibly think of would be moisture
>from a damp atmosphere or outdoor use.
>
>I personally can not imagine any mechanical advantages in the use if
>brass.
>
>What are the problems and benefits of brass in your experience ?
Ross Lewis
Leon Umsted
Benjamin, for two reasons. First, it is easier to work than steel and,
second, in a pneumatic rifle (read pump-up variety such as Sheridan,
Crosman, Benjamin, etc.) when compressed air is allowed to expand quickly it
cools and any moisture present tends to condense. If neglected, brass will
not rust from this small amount of moisture but steel might.
LU
Dan Bollinger wrote in message ...
Ross Lewis
<dlaurin...@hotmail.com> writes
>Brass is used in all kinds of bushings. It has much better lubricity than
>steel. That is why it is used in airgun barrels....more consistent and
>higher velocities.
Is it's (brass) relative softness to steel a problem if using steel BB ?
If so, would it be best to use only lead pellets or lead balls ?
hans
Dan Bollinger is right.
Stainless steel is far more resistent to wear and corrosion.
In my opinion brass barrels will wear out within 100.000 pellets.
Cheap brands uses brass barrels. This because brass is very easy to machine.
To make grooves in stainless steel you will need expensive machines.
Think about that.
Hans
>Ross Corrosion resistance? Of what!? It's not like something is
burning
>in the barrel, and target grade firearm barrels don't exactly corrode
>quickly. Besides, why not stainless instead of brass, it's more corrosion
>resistant and more abrasion resistant, too. Dan
>
>
>Ross Lewis <ro...@esox.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:6xK85EAu...@esox.demon.co.uk...
>> In article <3856...@MailAndNews.com>, Greg <inte...@MailAndNews.com>
>> writes
>> >Why is rifled brass better for barrels than rifled steel? I heard that
it
>> >improves accuracy, but by how much. It sounds nice, but seems to up the
>> >price
>> >by about $100 US. Is it worth it?
>> >
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> I would certainly have thought that there would be an advantage in
>> maintenance due to there being a far better corrosion resistance in
>> Brass against steel.
>>
Dan Bollinger
Leon Umsted <le...@thevision.net> wrote in message
news:OWF24.420$wM4....@news-west.eli.net...
> Brass was the material of choice in many US airgun barrels, notably
> Benjamin, for two reasons. First, it is easier to work than steel and,
> second, in a pneumatic rifle (read pump-up variety such as Sheridan,
> Crosman, Benjamin, etc.) when compressed air is allowed to expand quickly
it
> cools and any moisture present tends to condense. If neglected, brass will
> not rust from this small amount of moisture but steel might.
> LU
>
> Dan Bollinger wrote in message ...
Peter Amschel
I'm with Dan and Hans.
In article <82h25e$af2$1...@news1.xs4all.nl>, hja...@xs4all.nl
says...
> Hela,
>
> Dan Bollinger is right.
> Stainless steel is far more resistent to wear and corrosion.
> In my opinion brass barrels will wear out within 100.000 pellets.
> Cheap brands uses brass barrels. This because brass is very easy to machine.
> To make grooves in stainless steel you will need expensive machines.
> Think about that.
>
> Hans
>
> >Ross Corrosion resistance? Of what!? It's not like something is
> burning
> >in the barrel, and target grade firearm barrels don't exactly corrode
> >quickly. Besides, why not stainless instead of brass, it's more corrosion
> >resistant and more abrasion resistant, too. Dan
> >
> >
Daniel H Lauring
I'm afraid. Sticking with lead will increase the life of the barrel
considerably.
--
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Bungalow/9795/
Digital Camera and Video Camera tidbits
Ross Lewis wrote in message ...
Stephen
1. It is far easier & cheaper to get a consistent material ( compared with
either carbon or stainless steel) without the need to stress relieve the
barrel. All the tests done regarding cryogenically treating steel rifle
barrels, point towards success gained from stress relieving the material.
Brass because of its lower tensile capacity and the method of blank
manufacture does not have this problem.
2. As airgun are generally manufactured in small calibers, it is far easier
& cheaper to button or hammer forge a "soft" brass barrel than a steel one.
The loads involved in drawing a tiny button through a .17 cal steel barrel
are extremely high, and involve very specialised tools.
3. As there is no combustion or throat erosion in an airgun as in a
cartridge rifle, the barrel material needs not to be able to withstand the
extreme abrasion and temperature. Further with chamber pressure of up to 65
000 psi in a modern cartridge firearm, brass barrel would not be able to
withstand the pressure. this is obviously not a concern in an airgun.
4. You could you a stainless steel, but the it is unlikely that is would
ever be a smooth enough surface (without molecular polishing) to be used
with a tiny caliber in conjunction with a very soft projectile, at
relatively low speeds, with a high degree of success. The barrel surface
needs to be a smooth as possible not to deform or tear at the pellet skirt.
5. Brass would provide a high degree of corrosion resistance, but it does
"rust". Rust is simply oxidisation in iron. Brass tarnishes, which is a form
of oxidisation, although it is not nearly as invasive as rust in a carbon
steel.
Just my opinion..
Stephen
Doug Goncz
deposit on steel barrels. It's easily removed. A lead pellet in a brass barrel
can either leave a lead deposit which welds to the lead in the brass, making it
hard to remove, or take some of the lead in the barrel with it as it moves. I
don't have the experience to tell which happens and if it matters.
A bronze barrel might not have any lead in it at all.
A brass barrel could be plated with copper inside. That might make a
difference. Not very easy to do, but doable.
Yours,
Doug Goncz
Experimental Machinist, Replikon Research ( USA 22044-0094 )
Home Page: http://users.aol.com/DGoncz
"I think you gave me too much change. May I keep it?"
L. Kraven
Greg <inte...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
> Why is rifled brass better for barrels than rifled steel? I heard
that it
> improves accuracy, but by how much. It sounds nice, but seems to up
the
> price
> by about $100 US. Is it worth it?
My experience comes from both airgun use and competitive paintball use
(where barrel technology is even more important due to nature of the
ammunition).
Brass is a superior barrel material for airguns and paintballs for a
couple of reasons:
1. Very easy to machine. Because stainless steel is much more
difficult to machine doesn't make it a better barrel material.
2. Brass is pretty much non-corrosive. Non-stainless steel rusts and
corrodes very easily, especially with CO2 powerplants which will
generate moisture as it expands (via condensation due to drop in
immediate temperature.)
3. Brass is "smoother". At the microscopic level, brass is much more
uniform than steel, especially after polishing.
4. Brass is "self-lubricating". This is possibly one of the most
important reasons to use brass, and also one of the least understood.
Brass is softer than steel, so, you'd imagine that it'd wear out faster
or that it'd get scratched and grooved easier. This is not the case,
however. Steel will eventually get scratched and grooved, and these
are generally "permanent" until they are polished out (no small task!
plus, you run the risk of changing the interior diameter of the barrel
and losing of power through air leakage around the outside of the
ammo). Brass actually "self-heals". Because brass is soft, as small
grooves and scratches are formed, subsequent firings will actually
smooth out these small imperfections. This makes it an excellent
material for airgun applications. The barrel can be made more "snug"
and give you much better results than steel.
LK
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Windrush
doesn´t every serious airgun have a brass barrel, what are the
disadvantages?
(there must be, or we wouldn´t have any steel or stainless airgun barrels)
It could not just be the higher material costs could it?
Erwin
> Brass is a superior barrel material for airguns and paintballs for a
> couple of reasons:
>
Anthony Anson
from "Windrush" <Wind...@wxs.nl> contains these words:
> Interesting comment, it all sounds logical, but reading all that, why
> doesn´t every serious airgun have a brass barrel, what are the
> disadvantages?
> (there must be, or we wouldn´t have any steel or stainless airgun barrels)
> It could not just be the higher material costs could it?
> Erwin
Bends more easily. Heavier. Costs more.
Tony
Ross Lewis
<tony....@zetnet.co.uk> writes
Merry Christmas :-)
It would seem to me as a non technical user that maybe brass would be
excellent for a pistol or shorter barrelled rifle but maybe not so good
for longer barrels and maybe (a guess) a firearm (FAC) power air weapon.
In reality, I dunno but I am personally considering getting a Benjamin
Sheridan Rifle (pump-up type).
This is not due to this thread but I can say that I have not been
discourged (yet <g>). It is supposed to have a brass barrel.
Cheers
Ross
L. Kraven
> > Interesting comment, it all sounds logical, but reading all that,
why
> > doesn´t every serious airgun have a brass barrel, what are the
> > disadvantages?
> > (there must be, or we wouldn´t have any steel or stainless airgun
barrels)
> > It could not just be the higher material costs could it?
>
> > Erwin
>
> Bends more easily. Heavier. Costs more.
>
> Tony
I should have clarified my statements. At some point, the "softness"
of brass works against it. For paintballs, for instance, the soft
outer shell works really well with the brass barrel. You would never
really want a high power firearm with a brass barrel because it's too
soft. The damage done by high powered weapons will exceed the ability
of the brass to heal/smooth itself. Every shot smooths it out some,
but ends up causing more damage than it removes. For this (among
other) reason(s), you don't see brass for the cheap toy bb guns.
Copper can be harsh on the barrel. It's ideal for paintball guns and
pellet airguns with muzzle energies below 15FP (an arbitrary number,
that from experience sounds "right" to me.) but should only be used
with lead pellets. Lead is pretty soft, and as the pellet is forced
through the barrel the expansion of the pellet and the "soft" brass
form a very good seal that should lead to a nice even energy
distribution which should mean a nice straight shot.
Alloy pellets can be murder, and the abuse that a PCP gun blasting 25FP
of force can be a little too much. That's why I imagine you don't see
the really "big" airguns with brass barrels. You hardly even see them
with stainless really, either. Most of them use just plain steel...
I'm not sure why the a lot of match quality target rifles don't use
brass. It could be that most of those are rifled (grooved) on the
inside, and the soft nature of the brass could cause deformations in
the rifling after extended use.
I don't build guns, but I have had extensive experience with them, so
this is mostly thought-out conjecture based on knowledge and logic. I
may be wrong about certain things.
Cheers,
-LK