about power inverter.
Jean Parent
Hello
Is there some inverter with an input voltage regulator ?
Well, with a solar panel or a wind charger, the batteries bank are charge
at any time, even wen you used them. I measured the voltage of my battery
when it's on charge, and it's goes to 14.7 volts, and an inverter are for
about 12 volts input, so most inverter give a 120 volts AC output with a
12 volts input, so it's 10 time the input voltage, at 14.7 input voltage
it will be 147 volts AC ouput !!!
So, at some time of the day it charge at same time that you ysed some
power from your inverter to run something, but with a 14.7 volts input,
you can have a 147 volts output from you inverter, hard for your
equipments and appliances !
So, is there some input voltage regulator with most power inverter ??
To keep the output at arround 120 volt and not up to 147 volts.
Thank
Jean
Jeff Roberts
Dear Jean
Instead of regulating the input to the batteries, regulate the voltage
from the batteries to the inverter with a car regulator.
Jeff Roberts
The one what?
>Instead of regulating the input to the batteries, regulate the voltage
>from the batteries to the inverter with a car regulator.
It would probably be better to regulate the output of the inverter
instead. That is, afterall, what you care about.
TheOne
Konrad Mauch
Powerstar, etc., etc. are regulated and will accept input voltages from
10 to 15 (or 16) volts while maintaining good output voltage regulation.
Any dealer selling PV panels should also have info on one or more of
these brands.
----
Konrad Mauch
Kma...@statpower.com
Jean Parent
Yes, but, regulating a sine wave 120 volts AC output are far more
complicate than regulating a 12 volts to 14.5 volts DC input, even with a
much bigger amps at the input than at the output.
Is that so ??
Thank
Jean
Stephen Hatch
;>
;>Jean Parent wrote:
;>>
;>> Hello
;>>
;>> Is there some inverter with an input voltage regulator ?
;>>
;>> Well, with a solar panel or a wind charger, the batteries bank are
;charge
;>> at any time, even wen you used them. I measured the voltage of my
;battery
;>> when it's on charge, and it's goes to 14.7 volts, and an inverter are
;for
;>> about 12 volts input, so most inverter give a 120 volts AC output with a
;>> 12 volts input, so it's 10 time the input voltage, at 14.7 input voltage
;>> it will be 147 volts AC ouput !!!
;>>
;>> So, at some time of the day it charge at same time that you ysed some
;>> power from your inverter to run something, but with a 14.7 volts input,
;>> you can have a 147 volts output from you inverter, hard for your
;>> equipments and appliances !
;>>
;>> So, is there some input voltage regulator with most power inverter ??
;>>
;>> To keep the output at arround 120 volt and not up to 147 volts.
;>>
;>> Thank
;>>
;>> Jean
;>
;>Dear Jean
;>Instead of regulating the input to the batteries, regulate the voltage
;>Jeff Roberts;;
Neither of these options are necessary with a decent inverter.
Most Trace inverters have an operating range.
From 10 volts to 15.5 volts the Trace inverter will produce right
around 117 volts. Very little drift one way or the other. I'm not
exactly sure of the range, but it'd something like that.
I have used my Trace 2500 watt inverter for 6 years with absolutely
no problems. If the battery gets too high or too low, the Trace
simply refuses to deliver. Yet it runs magnificently while being
charged. All the way to fifteen and a half volts.
So quit worrying about a non existent problem.
-Stephen Hatch
The one what?
>Yes, but, regulating a sine wave 120 volts AC output are far more
>complicate than regulating a 12 volts to 14.5 volts DC input, even with a
>much bigger amps at the input than at the output.
I don't think so. The "much bigger amps" is a killer. Seeing as how
almost every inverter on the market regulates the output, that must be
a more reasonable method. Plus, you get the added benefit (if you
want it) that your inverter could act as a regulator for the grid
power when running from grid instead of local sources.
TheOne
Ross Alexander
>Jean Parent (bd...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
>>Yes, but, regulating a sine wave 120 volts AC output are far more
>>complicate than regulating a 12 volts to 14.5 volts DC input, even with a
>>much bigger amps at the input than at the output.
>I don't think so. The "much bigger amps" is a killer.
The "much bigger amps" is a complete non-issue. After all, you have
to switch the input current anyhow; that's how you get the AC in the
first place, by chopping the input DC.
>Seeing as how almost every inverter on the market regulates the
>output, that must be a more reasonable method.
Rather than burn power regulating the output, one regulates the input
until the output is correct. Typically, you regulate the chopping
duty cycle.
>Plus, you get the added benefit (if you want it) that your inverter
>could act as a regulator for the grid power when running from grid
>instead of local sources.
I've never, ever seen this `feature' mentioned in any invertor
advertising, which speaks volumes.
regards,
Ross
--
Ross Alexander, ve6pdq -- (403) 675 6311 -- r...@cs.athabascau.ca
Ross Alexander
(further attribs lost, sri)
>;>> So, is there some input voltage regulator with most power inverter ??
>;>> To keep the output at arround 120 volt and not up to 147 volts.
>;>
>;>Instead of regulating the input to the batteries, regulate the voltage
>;>from the batteries to the inverter with a car regulator.
> Neither of these options are necessary with a decent inverter.
>Most Trace inverters have an operating range.
> From 10 volts to 15.5 volts the Trace inverter will produce right
>around 117 volts. Very little drift one way or the other. I'm not
>exactly sure of the range, but it'd something like that.
> I have used my Trace 2500 watt inverter for 6 years with absolutely
>no problems. If the battery gets too high or too low, the Trace
>simply refuses to deliver. Yet it runs magnificently while being
>charged. All the way to fifteen and a half volts.
> So quit worrying about a non existent problem.
Agreed. I've got the 24 volt version of a Trace 2500; runs without a
hiccup from 21 to 29.5 volts, and the output is a rock steady 117
volts 60 Hz. I have permanent metering in place, and have watched
many times as the battery stack voltage sagged 2 or 3 volts as the
inverter powered a heavy intermittent load (coffee maker or toaster)
while the output sat perfectly constant.
I must add that Trace invertors are not particularly cheap.
John Wells
: Hello
: Is there some inverter with an input voltage regulator ?
: Well, with a solar panel or a wind charger, the batteries bank are charge
: at any time, even wen you used them. I measured the voltage of my battery
: when it's on charge, and it's goes to 14.7 volts, and an inverter are for
: about 12 volts input, so most inverter give a 120 volts AC output with a
: 12 volts input, so it's 10 time the input voltage, at 14.7 input voltage
: it will be 147 volts AC ouput !!!
Any good inverter is capable of a fairly dynamic voltage input without
causing output voltage fluctuation.... A typical inverter should be able
to handle 10 to ~16 volts input without much problem. Sine wave inverters
may respond in a little more 'clean' fasion but almost any inverter worth its
price will self regulate the final output.....
PS It is good to charge the battery above 12 volts... but that is another
story and I won't get into it here.
John
Risto Jokinen
variation, it made using reference waveform and pwm controller.
Note that this is also needed in normal UPS systems during the power
break.
-- Risto
Thomas C. J. Sefranek
That's not how they work.
There is a very NON-linear correlation between input and output.
As in, any voltage from 11 to 16 volts gets you the right output.
(I think mine varies less than 1 VOLT over that range)
Do not forget to regulate, but only because the batteries don't want to
see that high voltage. And usually that doesn't happen either,
I find my batteries only go that high if they are FULLY charged.
In that case I haven't spec'ed my system correctly,
and need to add additional storage. (Batteries)
So any good inverter has an output voltage regulator,
certainly any UPS.
Tom
Jud Williams
Parent) writes:
>
>
>Hello
>
>Is there some inverter with an input voltage regulator ?
>
>Well, with a solar panel or a wind charger, the batteries bank are
charge
>at any time, even wen you used them. I measured the voltage of my
battery
>when it's on charge, and it's goes to 14.7 volts, and an inverter are
for
>about 12 volts input, so most inverter give a 120 volts AC output with
a
>12 volts input, so it's 10 time the input voltage, at 14.7 input
voltage
>it will be 147 volts AC ouput !!!
>
>power from your inverter to run something, but with a 14.7 volts
input,
>you can have a 147 volts output from you inverter, hard for your
>equipments and appliances !
>
>
>To keep the output at arround 120 volt and not up to 147 volts.
>
>
>Jean
Hi Jean:
You will find that after the inverter has run for a few seconds the
battery voltage will drop down to about 11.5 volts as the surface
charge of the battery bleeds off. Any voltage above the OCV of the
battery is overcharge and the battery does not retain it when under
load. If you disconnect the charger from the battery and allow it to
sit for a few hours and then measure the terminal voltage you will read
a voltage between 12.65 and 12.8 volts depending on the type of
battery. That is the OCV or open circuit voltage of the battery.
There is no need to worry that the inverter will run at the high
voltage as long as the inverter is loaded. Your inverter should have a
low voltage cut off to shut it down when the battery reaches between
9.5 and 10 volts so as to not discharge it too deeply which may damage
it. By the way, you should not be charging the battery much above 13.5
volts if you expect it to last very long.
Regards, Jud
John Wells
In following up an e-mail; I submit to the net for general information, please
take this with a grain of salt, there are many ways of arriving at the same
place:
> Hi
>
> How they do that regulation ?
>
> Thank
>
> Jean
>
I don't know how well you understand electronics and the theory behind all
of this but to make it breif... The basic concept behind output self
regulation is to take the output signal (120 VAC) and to "invert the phase"
180 degrees and then send this signal back to the input of the circuit,
and sum it with the reference input signal. This principal is called
'negative feedback'. It is used in all types of signal processing, even
audio amplifiers. Whether the process is digital or analog it is the
same if effect.
Anyhow, in an typical inverter scheme there is some type of a reference
oscillator that produces a constant level and constant frequency signal.
This signal will go to a 'buffer amplifier' circuit which conditions the
signal even further by being able to make adjustments to various parameters
of the signal such as varying the pulse width or amplitude.
This signal can be fed into a very high power amplifier which feeds a
transformer that is the source for the AC signal that you use to light a
light or run a computer. (There are a number of varaitions on this
process but this is the basic idea.)
The 'hot' lead signal (120VAC) is filtered and processed (inverted) as
needed and then the signal is sent back to the input of the buffer
amplifier. This feed back loop is a 'negative feedback' Changes on the
output (such as no load or maximum load) will affect how much drive the
buffer amp delivers to the power amp.
In the home power arena, some use a square wave output,while others have
what is called 'modified sine wave' while others have an output signal that
resembles a pure sine wave. The net effect is for the inverter to output
the equivilent of 120 volts ac RMS.
(120 VAC RMS will deliver the same *wattage* to a load as does 120 volts
DC, even though the peak voltages involved in the AC signal will usually
be ~150volts peak to peak for a sine wave (remember that there are also
periods of time that the voltage falls below 120 volts too.))
Hope this isn't to confusing but without drawing you a simple diagram it
is hard to describe in words....
You should check out the power supply section in the ARRL Radio Amaterurs
hand book and also 'negative feedback' in any modern Electrical engineering
book. Also checkout therory behind 'op amps' or operational amplifiers.
The therory is fairly simple.
The easiest way to check for good regulation is to connect a 7 watt night
light to the output of the inverter.... it should glow at normal brightness.
Next connect a fairly high wattage light in parallel and verify the the
brightness of the smaller light dosen't dim or worse.... get brighter.
Using a voltmeter to measure inverter output can be misleading in some
cases.
John off the grid W
Bruce Bostwick
>;>from the batteries to the inverter with a car regulator.
OOPS!
Is anyone out there aware that car "regulators" do not actually regulate
12VDC? One example of a mechanics' misnomer that has caused no end of
trouble ... the "regulator" is actually an alternator controller that
controls the output of an alternator by varying the rotor current -- it
never even sees the main output. I don't know if there IS a device that
can actually reduce voltage at the kind of current a car uses under maximum
load ...
that said, you CAN regulate the DC devices themselves (except for PV panels
of course!) with these things since most of the best homebrew designs have
automotive alternators to generate the DC. You even get the little
supervisory circuit that can turn on a warning light at the panel in case
of failure ... ;-)
Bruce Bostwick
>I must add that Trace invertors are not particularly cheap.
no, not cheap -- but then again, they're UL and CSI rated for
continuous use in a permanent residential installation and
they contain enough wits to be able to handle just about
everything you can throw at them ... including hooking two
of them together to make a 240V split-phase feed (they
synchronize phase automatically, both to themselves and to
the intertie feed) ... so they're probably worth all of that
and more.
I'm seriously thinking my next house is going to have to
have a couple of SW4024's in it ...
Raul Almquist
Show me any inverter that is cheap that is not also CHEAP in terms of
capability and componants.
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Raul Almquist
: everything you can throw at them ... including hooking two
: of them together to make a 240V split-phase feed (they
: synchronize phase automatically, both to themselves and to
: the intertie feed) ... so they're probably worth all of that
: and more.
Personally, if I was thinking of any 120VAC and 240VAC, I would have
one inverter for 120VAC and a second inverter that puts out 240VAC, if
memory serves me correctly there are a few companie's inverters that put
out 240VAC, I think Dimensions Unlimited is one of them, in fact if I
remember correctly DU puts out a 4800W and 5600W 240VAC inverter models,
if I was going to supply both 120 and 240 that is the way I would do it,
after all, why invest in more than one smart inverter...
Stephen Hatch
By the way, you should not be charging the battery much above 13.5
>volts if you expect it to last very long.
>
>Regards, Jud
UH! Excuse me. 13.5 is not the correct voltage to recharge a
12 volt battery. 14.5 volts is correct. And with deep cycle
batteries you want to run the voltage all the way to 16 volts at least
four times a year. What? Did he say 16 volts? Yes and I meant it.
If you don't over charge deep cycle batteries they don't last as
long. You need this high voltage to even out the cells and push
the last of the sulphur out of the plates. (Lead acid)
Don't wish to upset anyone, but this is important. I ruined a set
because I didn't "Overcharge them".
-Stephen Hatch
Hugh Piggott
>audio amplifiers. Whether the process is digital or analog it is the
>same if effect.
>
>Anyhow, in an typical inverter scheme there is some type of a reference
>oscillator that produces a constant level and constant frequency signal.
>
>
All this processing will drop the efficiency somewhat..
In practice they don't usually limit the voltage in an analogue fashion.
..
>
>In the home power arena, some use a square wave output,while others have
>what is called 'modified sine wave' while others have an output signal that
>resembles a pure sine wave. The net effect is for the inverter to output
>the equivilent of 120 volts ac RMS.
>
Yes, but often the only control over rms voltage is the pulse width. *Peak* voltage varies in proportion to battery voltage, and ca=
n get pretty high, off-load. this will only matter with loads which rectify the power input to DC, such as TVs and other electronic=
loads.
> Using a voltmeter to measure inverter output can be misleading in some
>cases.
>
Yes, because voltmeters often just take the peak voltage and mulitply by 0.7 to get an idea of the rms. This will not work for 'mod=
ified sine wave'.
Even the rms voltage out of the inverter is not always perfectly regulated. Just kept within reasonable limits.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Wind powered since the 1970s!
Contact me for DIY plans, etc..
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Scoraig, Scotland, IV23 2RE
>>hugh.p...@enterprise.net<<
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Mike Morris
>The one what? (the...@cyberhighway.net) writes:
>> Jeff Roberts (jrob...@axionet.com) wrote:
>>>from the batteries to the inverter with a car regulator.
>>
>> instead. That is, afterall, what you care about.
Mind telling me how you'd do that? A "car regulator" controls
the output of the alternator by varying the current going into it.
Think of an alternator as an amplifier - if you feed (for example)
1 amp throught the field winding, the alternator uses energy from
the engine (via the belt and pulley) to make available 20 amps
from the output terminal. The regulator simply measures
the system volatge, and varies the field winding current to raise
or lower the alternator output to match that set point. There's
more to it that what I've presented, like compensating for
air temperature, overload protection, etc.
Hugh Piggott
Well, as usual in these cases, the answer is a bit of each. While charging discharged batteries, the ideal voltage might be 14.5. =
If there are differences between the states of charge of the cells, you should equalise, over 15 volts. But happy, full batteries o=
n 'float' like 13.5 best (13.8?). It limits the gassing to an acceptable level.
Best charging voltages will also depend on temperature, and details of cell chemistry.
Harvey White
<snip>
>Dear Jean
>Instead of regulating the input to the batteries, regulate the voltage
>from the batteries to the inverter with a car regulator.
>Jeff Roberts
Jeff, I don't think it will work the way you think. My understanding
is that a voltage regulator for a car works by tweaking the
alternator's output. It only works with an alternator, since it is
not a true series-pass regulator. It only controls the field strength
of the alternator stator (if I remember properly).
This would work well if you have an alternator/alternator type system
for a wind turbine, but obviously not for a solar panel.
The real solution is to have an inverter that uses PWM to control the
output voltage. This requires a smarter inverter and more control
circuitry. You could use a ferro-resonant transformer for critical
loads, but that does waste power.
A series regulator to the inverter would also waste power,
unfortunately. Equipment that is designed for 117-220 volts without
switching would have no problem, of course.
Harvey
***
I just read minds,
I don't explain them
***
yen...@melb.alexia.net.au
>it. By the way, you should not be charging the battery much above 13.5
>volts if you expect it to last very long.
>
>Regards, Jud
Umm, there is a fault in one of the above replies,, it SHOULDN'T matter
what your input voltage is, ok it should be above the maximum input allowed for
the inverter, the lower inpout shoulnt really be below 10.8 Volts if your
running from 12V batteries, I got this 10.8V figure from the LVD units I have to
set up for the Battery backup units for transmitting stations, LVD= Low Voltage
Disconnect.
As I have already said, it shouldn't matter what the battery voltage is
cause if the inverter wasn't internally regulated and you added a load, then the
output would decay, then on disconnection the output would jump up, not good for
the second _light_ load, simply put, say your running a tap at a certain flow,
you restrict the exit port of the pipe, you have to open the trap valve to
restore the flow rate (to a certain point),, the same goes for de-restricting
the tap port :o)
Generally a battery is charged a 13.8Volts (12V battery) and the max
charging level shouldn't exceed ~14V (~2.4V/cell), if the battery gets to 14V we
have a High Volt Alarm, this usally means that one battery has a dead cell...
bbfn Yendor
Ray Ogden
says...
>
>ma...@ix.netcom.com (Harvey White) wrote:
>snip
>
>Renewable energy systems typically use a shunt regulator to protect both
>the battery and loads from excessive voltage. The shunt regulator
>diverts current into a dump load if volts attempt to exceed the design
>value, often around 14 volts.
Shunt/diversion regulators are used to regulate wind and/or hydro
charging systems. They are designed to keep the batteries from
overcharging and the generator(s) from over-speeding as charging is
reduced. Shunt regulators have nothing to do with maintaining voltage
level for the inverter.
Ray Ogden
ENERGY OUTFITTERS
nrgo...@cdsnet.net
Ray Ogden
says...
>>>from the batteries to the inverter with a car regulator.
>>
>> instead. That is, afterall, what you care about.
>>
>
>
>Yes, but, regulating a sine wave 120 volts AC output are far more
>complicate than regulating a 12 volts to 14.5 volts DC input, even with
a
>much bigger amps at the input than at the output.
>
>
>Thank
>
>Jean
of input voltage, this is of course, as long as the input voltage stays
within design tolerance. This is a must when dealing with battery storage
since a 12 volt system's voltage will vary from 11.5 (discharged) to 14.5
volts (charging). Any inverter that does't maintain a constant output
over this range belongs in the junk heap.
Mike Morris
:From: yen...@melb.alexia.net.au
:Subject: Re: about power inverter.
:Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 13:37:00 GMT
:On 28 Feb 1996 02:59:53 GMT, ju...@ix.netcom.com(Jud Williams ) wrote:
:>In <DnCp2...@freenet.carleton.ca> bd...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Jean
:>Parent) writes:
:>>
:>>
:>>Hello
:>>
:>>Is there some inverter with an input voltage regulator ?
:>>
:>>Well, with a solar panel or a wind charger, the batteries bank are
:>charge
:>>at any time, even wen you used them. I measured the voltage of my
:>battery
:>>when it's on charge, and it's goes to 14.7 volts, and an inverter are for
:>>about 12 volts input, so most inverter give a 120 volts AC output with a
:>>12 volts input, so it's 10 time the input voltage, at 14.7 input voltage
:>>it will be 147 volts AC ouput !!!
:>>
:>>So, at some time of the day it charge at same time that you used some
:>>power from your inverter to run something, but with a 14.7 volts input,
:>>you can have a 147 volts output from you inverter, hard for your
:>>equipments and appliances !
:>>
:>>So, is there some input voltage regulator with most power inverter ??
:>>
:>>To keep the output at arround 120 volt and not up to 147 volts.
:>>
:>>Thank
:>>Jean
Jean - is this 147v value an assumption on your part, or is it the results of
a test? Inverters do not work at a 1-10 ratio: 10v in does not mean 100v out,
12v in 120v out, 14v in 140v out! It doesn't work that way!
My friend's inverter puts out 120-130v for a range of 11-14v. The
inverter is designed to shut off below 10.5v, and above 16.5v. The
output voltage does not go beyond 130v all the way to 16.5v on the input. My
friend's inverter is a Trace, I imagine others are similar.
>Umm, there is a fault in one of the above replies, it SHOULDN'T matter what
>your input voltage is, ok it should be above the maximum input allowed for
>the inverter, the lower input shoulnt really be below 10.8 Volts if your
>running from 12V, I got this 10.8V figure from the LVD units I have to
>set up for the Battery backup units for transmitting stations, LVD= Low
Voltage>Disconnect.
Don't you mean "it should be above the minimum input"? And she is worried
about a fully charged 12v battery (at about 14v) putting out overvoltage on
the AC output, not undervoltage on the DC input.
Jud Williams
Hatch) writes:
>
>
>> Generally a battery is charged a 13.8Volts (12V battery) and
the
>max
>>charging level shouldn't exceed ~14V (~2.4V/cell), if the battery
gets to
>14V we
>>have a High Volt Alarm, this usally means that one battery has a dead
>cell...
>>
>>
>>bbfn Yendor
>>
>>http://melb.alexia.net.au/~www/yendor
>
> NOT TRUE. You must charge your 12 volt lead-acid batteries to 14.5
>volts each and every time. I've stated this here several times before
>and will restate it again.
> I don't know who these people are that keep saying charge to 13.5
>or 14 volts (on a twelve volt battery) but they are wrong. Dead wrong.
>And your batteries will loose power. Don't believe them. They are
>either stupid, ignorant, or liers.
> At least four (4) times a year run the charge voltage all the way
>to 16 SIXTEEN volts. This will equalize your cells and keep everything
>in your batteries happy. Charge to sixteen volts for about 2 hours.
>Be sure you remove the caps and let the batteries bubble and gas away.
>
> In between overcharges, you want your batteries (while charging) to
>read 14.5 volts. Period. Anyone who says different is stupid or evil.
>If you want maximum utility and life out of your deep cycle lead acid
>batteries, then charge to 14.5 volts everyday.
>-Stephen Hatch
>
>
>
To Stephen Hatch:
I sure would like to know the brand of batteries you are charging to
16V and how long they are lasting. What is the environment they are in?
Thanks, Jud
Deon Maree
>>In <DnCp2...@freenet.carleton.ca> bd...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Jean
>>Parent) writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>Hello
>>>
>>>Is there some inverter with an input voltage regulator ?
>>>
>>>Well, with a solar panel or a wind charger, the batteries bank are
>>charge
>>>at any time, even wen you used them. I measured the voltage of my
>>battery
>>>when it's on charge, and it's goes to 14.7 volts, and an inverter are
>>for
>>>about 12 volts input, so most inverter give a 120 volts AC output with
>>a
>>>12 volts input, so it's 10 time the input voltage, at 14.7 input
>>voltage
>>>it will be 147 volts AC ouput !!!
>>>
>>>So, at some time of the day it charge at same time that you ysed some
>>>power from your inverter to run something, but with a 14.7 volts
>>input,
>>>you can have a 147 volts output from you inverter, hard for your
>>>equipments and appliances !
>>>
>>>So, is there some input voltage regulator with most power inverter ??
>>>
>>>To keep the output at arround 120 volt and not up to 147 volts.
>>>
>>>Thank
>>>
>>>Jean
Jean,
Most of the inverters we design and that I have seen do have some form
of regulation. The inverters normally consists of two main parts.
Up Converter
-----------------------
1/ The up-converter taking a DC input and convert it to a high DC
output about 170vDC for a 120vAC system and 320vDC for a 220vAC
system.The up-converter uses a push-pull or full-bridge topology.When
the input voltage increase the switching regulator adjust the on-times
of the power devices to keep the voltage to the output stage constant.
Unfolding or Output Stage
-----------------------------------------
2/ This constant voltage is then fed to the output stage to generate
the AC waveform. The output stage consists of power devices in a H
bridge arrangement. Some invertors samples the AC output voltage
through a small transformer,rectifies it and compare it against a ref
and adjust the on-time of the devices in the converter. By doing this
the AC output voltage is always regulated.
Good inverters also have under and over voltage input-trip circuits.
Regards Deon
Electronics Design & Measurement
e...@global.co.za
Hugh Piggott
>of input voltage, this is of course, as long as the input voltage stays
>within design tolerance. This is a must when dealing with battery storage
>since a 12 volt system's voltage will vary from 11.5 (discharged) to 14.5
>volts (charging). Any inverter that does't maintain a constant output
>over this range belongs in the junk heap.
>
>Ray Ogden
>ENERGY OUTFITTERS
>nrgo...@cdsnet.net
>
>
There is the peak voltage and there is the rms voltage, each important.
Most people mean rms, and it is true that the rms voltage can be precisely regulated using simple modified sine wave coverters. (s=
imple in the sense that the transistors are simply on or off, and the frequency is 60 Hz (50 over here)).
BUT *peak* voltage IS a function of battery voltage on these 'simple inverters', and peak voltage can be more important than rms fo=
r some appliances (eg TVs) I have known a TV be damaged by a Trace 2.5 kW machine running lightly loaded on very high battery volta=
ge.
Peak voltage is a function of battery voltage, transformer ratio and output current (via internal volt drop in the output circuit). =
Low currents and high input volts mean high peak output volts.
Hugh Piggott
> Shunt regulators have nothing to do with maintaining voltage
>level for the inverter.
>
This may be true for you, but in my case the protection of loads is also
an important priority. The shunt regulator protects both the battery
and the loads run by the battery. In the case of the inverter, the
output peak voltage is a function of battery voltage, and it is helpful
to control battery voltage, to limit this peak.
I am aware that the Trace inverters (and most others) control their
output rms voltage internally. And they have high voltage cut-out, too.
But it is still advisable to regulate battery voltage.
============================
Wind powered since the 1970s!
Contact me for DIY plans, etc..
============================
Scoraig, Scotland, IV23 2RE
>>hugh.p...@enterprise.net<<
============================
Hugh Piggott
Sounded violent from where I'm standing. Friends now?
Hugh
David Buchner
>Modern inverters regulate their power output to specifications regardless
>of input voltage, this is of course, as long as the input voltage stays
>within design tolerance. This is a must when dealing with battery storage
>since a 12 volt system's voltage will vary from 11.5 (discharged) to 14.5
>volts (charging). Any inverter that does't maintain a constant output
>over this range belongs in the junk heap.
>Ray Ogden
>ENERGY OUTFITTERS
Bad idea. If you don't want to mess with imperfect stuff, how "alternative" is it? At least leave it on the *edge* of the junkheap, =
so my friends and I can scavenge it. I hope you meant that metaphorically.
Jud Williams
Hatch) writes:
>
>In article <4hin9f$2...@cloner3.netcom.com>, ju...@ix.netcom.co says...
>>
>>What most of you are over looking is the fact that once a battery is
>>connected to an inverter under load, the battery voltage will drop
>>to some value between 11 and 12 volts regardless of the peak charge
>>voltage as this excessive charge known as surface charge leaks off.
If
>>the inverter is an on-line UPS where the battery is being charged
while
>>the inverter is operating into a load, then the charger must have its
>>output adjusted to a level that will produce the desired inverter
>>output level. Also, be aware that a battery is fully charged once it
>>reaches somewhere between 12.65 and 12.8 volts (depending on the type
>>of battery) and once the battery is fully charged, increasing the
>>trickle (or float voltage) beyond 13.5 volts will cause the gassing
to
>>increase. Excessive gassing does nothing for the battery other than
to
>>dry it out prematurely thus shortening it's life.
>>
>>Jud
>