I need a charger and battery for a cell phone booster.
philkryder
Colleagues -
I would like to put a cell phone booster/repeater in a remote
location.
It is a Wilson 801245 model.
I believe it uses about 3 watts max.
The unit will be in an unsupervised location about 90% of the time.
It will be at about 2500 feet altitude.
Since it will not be supervised, I would like to have it be as un-
obtrusive as possible by having a solar panel lying flat on top of an
8x40 shipping container, so that it won't attract attention.
I would like to use some form of sealed battery to prevent gas
accumulation in the container.
I have several questions:
1) Is a SOLAR charger a good way to go?
2) If I go SOLAR, and it is lying flat rather that angled optimally,
what size would I need?
3) does this 45 watt unit (see link below) from harbor freight have a
large margin of excess capacity?
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=90599
?are there better options?
4) what size battery should I get to store power for nights?
5) where is a good place to purchase the battery and which style of
sealed batter should I get?
6) are there other critical considerations that I should consider?
Thanks much!
Phil
You
<8204478f-c75b-40b7...@u36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
philkryder <alt.g...@Kryder.com> wrote:
> Colleagues -
> I have several questions:
>
> 1) Is a SOLAR charger a good way to go?
>
> 2) If I go SOLAR, and it is lying flat rather that angled optimally,
> what size would I need?
If you lay it FLAT, and there is the possibility that the area gets snow
in the winter, plan on the system going offline when it snows.
Malcom "Mal" Reynolds
<8204478f-c75b-40b7-b413-bbff2033bb3b@u3
6g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
philkryder <alt.g...@Kryder.com>
wrote:
How long between visits to the location.
It well might be cheaper to just change
charged batteries.
ghio
> Colleagues -
>
> I would like to put a cell phone booster/repeater in a remote
> location.
>
> It is a Wilson 801245 model.
>
> I believe it uses about 3 watts max.
>
> The unit will be in an unsupervised location about 90% of the time.
>
> It will be at about 2500 feet altitude.
>
> Since it will not be supervised, I would like to have it be as un-
> obtrusive as possible by having a solar panel lying flat on top of an
> 8x40 shipping container, so that it won't attract attention.
>
> I would like to use some form of sealed battery to prevent gas
> accumulation in the container.
>
> I have several questions:
>
> 1) Is a SOLAR charger a good way to go?
>
> 2) If I go SOLAR, and it is lying flat rather that angled optimally,
> what size would I need?
>
> 3) does this 45 watt unit (see link below) from harbor freight have a
> ?are there better options?
>
> 4) what size battery should I get to store power for nights?
>
> 5) where is a good place to purchase the battery and which style of
> sealed batter should I get?
>
> 6) are there other critical considerations that I should consider?
>
> Thanks much!
> Phil
TekSolar can provide a plug and play solution.
Ron Rosenfeld
<alt.g...@Kryder.com> wrote:
>
>Colleagues -
>
>I would like to put a cell phone booster/repeater in a remote
>location.
>
>It is a Wilson 801245 model.
>
>I believe it uses about 3 watts max.
That'll depend on the uplink power being generated. According to the
specs, it requires 6v at 0.5A -- 1.5A. That is 3watts -- 9 watts.
However, if you are going to supply DC to the 801245, you'll need to know
both the peak and and average power requirements.
>
>The unit will be in an unsupervised location about 90% of the time.
>
>It will be at about 2500 feet altitude.
>
>Since it will not be supervised, I would like to have it be as un-
>obtrusive as possible by having a solar panel lying flat on top of an
>8x40 shipping container, so that it won't attract attention.
>
>I would like to use some form of sealed battery to prevent gas
>accumulation in the container.
>
>
>I have several questions:
>
>1) Is a SOLAR charger a good way to go?
It depends on the location, and the solar resource available at that
location.
>
>2) If I go SOLAR, and it is lying flat rather that angled optimally,
>what size would I need?
It depends on the location and the optimal angle for that location. But
it's probably close to 1/cos(optimal angle). There may also be a problem,
with a flat panel, with keeping it clean and unobstructed. So you may lose
50-100% of your power by keeping it flat.
>
>3) does this 45 watt unit (see link below) from harbor freight have a
>large margin of excess capacity?
>http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=90599
It depends on your location and the solar resource at that location.
>?are there better options?
First you need to obtain information about the solar insolation available
at the location for the panels. In particular, you will need to know the
solar insolation for the worst month of the year.
>
>4) what size battery should I get to store power for nights?
You not only need to store power for nights, but also for cloudy days. And
if this is a critical system, you will want to design for worst case.
>
>5) where is a good place to purchase the battery and which style of
>sealed batter should I get?
>
>6) are there other critical considerations that I should consider?
See above
--ron
philkryder
> On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 00:11:45 -0700 (PDT), philkryder
>
seems I need to provide more data.
we are in zip code 93105 - about latitude 34degrees.
since we are up in the mountains at 3500 feet, we avoid much of the
local coastal overcast.
is there an easy way to obtain better data as to the "solar resource
available?"
ghio
Ron Rosenfeld
<alt.g...@Kryder.com> wrote:
>seems I need to provide more data.
>
>we are in zip code 93105 - about latitude 34degrees.
>
>since we are up in the mountains at 3500 feet, we avoid much of the
>local coastal overcast.
>
>is there an easy way to obtain better data as to the "solar resource
>available?"
Do a search for PVWATTS. It is a NREL provided program that has a lot of
locations programmed in.
It seems Santa Maria is the closest place for which there is specific data,
but there may be more data at PVWATTS2.
A quick glance suggests that, with your panels laying flat, you will not be
producing enough power during Jan; but you would be OK if they were
oriented at 50�.
--ron
ghio
> On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 23:10:59 -0700 (PDT), philkryder
>
"Researchers at the National Renewable Energy Laboratory developed
PVWatts to permit non-experts to quickly obtain performance estimates
for grid-connected PV systems."
Says it all really, "Non Experts" and "performance estimates" for grid-
connected PV systems.
Of course the system in question is not grid connected and estimates
are just a guess.
If you want a system based on a guess for grid connected systems then
use PVWATTS.
OTOH, if you want to design a stand alone system based on real data
then "http://eosweb.larc.nasa.gov/sse/ " is the better option.
philkryder
I put in my 34.421 and 119.71 and got a grid bounded by 34 35 and 119
120.
Which seemed to show a low point of 2.67 "Monthly Averaged Insolation
Incident On A Horizontal Surface (kWh/m2/day)"
Given all the micro-climates in our mountains and along the coast, how
useful is the NASA data based on a one degree grid?
I note HOMER says a "12 meter" elevation - but we are at about 1100
meters or so...
So, can I assume that the NASA data is likely to be WORSE due to
coastal cloud cover effects and low altitude?
How much does solar improve with increased altitude?
In any event, how do I come up with a solar capacity and battery
capacity based on the above?
thanks for your help.
Phil
stevey
> 2) If I go SOLAR, and it is lying flat rather that angled optimally,
> what size would I need?
dust, or snow.
> 3) does this 45 watt unit (see link below) from harbor freight have a
> large margin of excess capacity?http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=90599
> ?are there better options?
You'll need a 7 to 10Wdc Max. module only, with a 80%+ efficiency
charger set at
13.8V float charg voltage
> 4) what size battery should I get to store power for nights?
A sealed gel cell battery rated at 10 to 15 AmpHour.
> 5) where is a good place to purchase the battery and which style of
> sealed batter should I get?
Check around your area
> 6) are there other critical considerations that I should consider?
Weather extremes? Vandalism or wild animals ?
Good Luck,
-solarMD
ghio
I have never used an average figure. Average figures = average system
and average performance.
>
> Given all the micro-climates in our mountains and along the coast, how
> useful is the NASA data based on a one degree grid?
How good is the data for a "closest" town that is not where you are
>
> I note HOMER says a "12 meter" elevation - but we are at about 1100
> meters or so...
Yep, you will get a fraction more insolation due to slightly thinner
air mass between you and the sun. Probably not measurable. Oh, and I
never used HOMER, just the raw data.
>
> So, can I assume that the NASA data is likely to be WORSE due to
> coastal cloud cover effects and low altitude?
Ah, not really as you can also check cloud cover on the same page
>
> How much does solar improve with increased altitude?
At 1100M, a bit
>
> In any event, how do I come up with a solar capacity and battery
> capacity based on the above?
You need to know your load. Then you have to size your system
accordingly. You have access to the following parameters.
Parameters for Solar Cooking
These are your main parameters
"Parameters for Sizing and Pointing of Solar Panels
and for Solar Thermal Applications
Solar Geometry
Parameters for Tilted Solar Panels
Parameters for Sizing Battery or other Energy-storage Systems
Parameters for Sizing Surplus-product Storage Systems"
Diurnal Cloud Information
Meteorology (Temperature)
Meteorology (Wind)
Meteorology (Wind): be sure to select an appropriate VEGETATION type
Meteorology (Other)
Supporting Information
Years ago I produced a set of sun charts for the whole of Australia
in .5 degree increments with the information from this info.
The real point is that if you don't know how to use the info on this
site then the info from NREL will not be of much use to you either,
unless you have a grid connect system and you want to know a ball park
figure for the systems performance. So, unless you are willing to
learn how to use this information you are at a disadvantage when it
comes to designing a system. Learning to design systems is a need to
know type of thing, after all, how many systems do you want to
design?
Then there is the question of your load. You said 3 watts. That is 72
Watt hours a day. It has been pointed out that the uplink could be
higher, so how many hours is the unit running at the higher power?
Lets say that the system will require 12 Amp hours a day (that is 3
watts for 12 hours and 9 watts for 12 hours) , that means that a 120Ah
battery would run the system for around 8 days with no input and a
maximum depth of discharge of around 80%.
A single 80 Watt panel will produce 5A per hour during the coldest
time of year. So if you get just 3 hours of sun in the middle of the
day the panel will produce 15 Ahs/day. Monthly Averaged Daylight Hours
(hours) for December is 9.91 in your degree position.
Do you want to know all this? Or, do you just want to run the cell
phone booster/repeater in a remote
location with out the angst? If you really don't want to know all this
then you should contact TekSolar. <http://www.teksolar.com.au> They
have a modular system that is plug and play and can match a system to
your needs. They will even build to your specs if required.
ghio
ROTFLMAO
Ron Rosenfeld
<alt.g...@Kryder.com> wrote:
>seems I need to provide more data.
>
>we are in zip code 93105 - about latitude 34degrees.
>
>since we are up in the mountains at 3500 feet, we avoid much of the
>local coastal overcast.
>
>is there an easy way to obtain better data as to the "solar resource
>available?"
Phil,
Some more information now that I have a bit more time.
Here's another page with what seems to be good data for your location.
http://www.gaisma.com/en/location/santa-barbara-california.html
That shows a nadir of 2.55 for December insolation.
You mentioned that you are up on a mountain or hill. There won't be any
better information for that location, although PVWATTS2 may enable a bit
better resolution. One way to obtain better information for a particular
location, that also takes into account various shading factors, would be
measure it yourself. Given that insolation can vary from year to year (the
NASA values use a minimum of a 10 year average, depending on which database
you utilize), that approach may not be best.
The amplifier requires 6V, 0.5-1.5A or 3-9 watts, depending on uplink
power.
Your worst month has 2.55 kwH/m^2/day insolation (or 2.55 Effective Sun
Hours).
So that means, as a minimum, assuming, let us say, 6W average requirements
that your panels need to have an output of 6 x 24 / 2.55 --> 56.47 W
That is without considering any system losses, battery charging
inefficiencies, and so forth.
Using a program called HOMER developed at NREL, and considering that you
want your panels flat, it would appear you would require a 90W panel for
full-time use; if you tilted your panels, and also increased battery
storage, you might be able to reduce this to about 55W panels. Which would
be "better" would depend on the economics.
--ron
philkryder
> On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 23:10:59 -0700 (PDT), philkryder
>
Ron -
thanks much.
As you can see, your thoughtful questions have helped me to improve on
my initial guesses in my first post.
It sounds like the key is to make conservative estimates and allow
extra battery capacity to cover anomalies.
Even gathering "perfect" data from averages won't help when we get
several days of unusually cloudy or rainy weather with near zero
insolation.
We are "closed" after dark, so we should see at least 12 hours of
minimum draw (3 watts/ .5amp at 6 volts) during the winter months.
Even when we are open, using the phone wouldn't be common - it's more
of an emergency safety issue, so, I'd be surprised if we had 20 hours
per week at 6watts.
As I understand it, the 9 watt max is only used when running multiple
simultaneous conversations which will be relatively rare.
So, I think a 45 or 60 watt unit will be my choice to start.
I will try to get a bit of angle, though I want to minimize visual
impact and calling attention to the panels.
As someone suggested, we can swap in batteries or start a generator
when we have staff there on weekends.
thanks again for all your help.
Phil
ps -
regarding this: >>So that means, as a minimum, assuming, let us say,
6W average requirements
that your panels need to have an output of 6 x 24 / 2.55 --> 56.47
W ...
I can see the math, but, how does that account for the fact that the
panels may not be a meter square and won't have 100% efficiency?
philkryder
George - thanks for your help.
I do appreciate it - especially at these price.
I doubt I could cost effectively make use of an Australian consultancy
for a 3 to 9 watt load system in Santa Barbara.
I will check them out however.
Best wishes.
Phil
philkryder
Steve -
Thanks for mentioning the wild animals, Vandals and Weather extremes.
We don't have severe cold,
but we do have high wind with gusts of 80 mph being not uncommon.
We recently got 10 inches of rain in 36 hours.
We also get fire ash from the brush/forest fires.
We have mountain lion, bear and assorted small chewing animals like
ground squirrels.
And, Vandals are a concern.
That was the reason I intended to lay the panels "flat" on top of a
shipping container, to avoid them being easily seen.
Are there anythings I could do to mitigate these risks cost
effectively?
best wishes and thanks!
Phil
P.S. - what is a SolarMD? I associate the honorific term "MD" with
medicine. Is this some new form of board certification?
philkryder
Steve -
One other thing - Is 13.8v typical charge - I've seen 14.2 - or is
that the difference between float and recharging?
Ken
Depends on temperature.
ghio
Well now Phil, the thing about the Australian consultancy is that
TekSolar is moving into the US market soon. They may be looking for
suppliers and retailers across the states and currently will deliver
where required. Plus you gain on the exchange rate, even if it is only
15 cents in the dollar at the moment.
They are not really into full home systems, but rather small systems
such as you propose as well as lighting systems and LED lamps.
What ever you do, good luck.
Ron Rosenfeld
<alt.g...@Kryder.com> wrote:
>Ron -
>thanks much.
>As you can see, your thoughtful questions have helped me to improve on
>my initial guesses in my first post.
>
>It sounds like the key is to make conservative estimates and allow
>extra battery capacity to cover anomalies.
>Even gathering "perfect" data from averages won't help when we get
>several days of unusually cloudy or rainy weather with near zero
>insolation.
The monthly averages, that are derived from NASA data, take cloudy days
into account. If you are designing critical systems, there is also data
available to show the maximum number of cloudy days in a row. But for less
critical designs, you can figure 5-10 days of battery backup to be
required.
>
>We are "closed" after dark, so we should see at least 12 hours of
>minimum draw (3 watts/ .5amp at 6 volts) during the winter months.
What about weekends?
Maybe you could turn it off when you leave, and on when you get there.
>
>Even when we are open, using the phone wouldn't be common - it's more
>of an emergency safety issue, so, I'd be surprised if we had 20 hours
>per week at 6watts.
>
>As I understand it, the 9 watt max is only used when running multiple
>simultaneous conversations which will be relatively rare.
>
>So, I think a 45 or 60 watt unit will be my choice to start.
>I will try to get a bit of angle, though I want to minimize visual
>impact and calling attention to the panels.
>
>As someone suggested, we can swap in batteries or start a generator
>when we have staff there on weekends.
>
>thanks again for all your help.
>Phil
>
>ps -
>regarding this: >>So that means, as a minimum, assuming, let us say,
>6W average requirements
>that your panels need to have an output of 6 x 24 / 2.55 --> 56.47
>W ...
>
>I can see the math, but, how does that account for the fact that the
>panels may not be a meter square and won't have 100% efficiency?
>
Panels are rated in a standardized manner, usually termed STC or PTC, that
show what the panel will put out under standardized conditions in a
laboratory. So this should account for the fact that the panels may not be
a meter square, and should also account for some the efficiency issues
related to the fact that, under ideal conditions, solar panels cannot
convert 100% of the sun energy to electricity.
For example, your HF panels, according to the mfg, measure 12.40" x 36.42"
or 0.29 m^2. So, theoretically, if they were 100% efficient, they should
produce 290 watts in full sunlight. However, they are rated at 45 watts
which implies a 15.4% efficiency.
By the way, this value makes me wonder how they are rating their panels. It
seems very much on the high side compared with other commercially available
panels in that size range, which, for many of them, are closer to 10%
efficient.
Neither PTC nor STC account for all "real-world" losses. Actual solar
systems will produce lower outputs due to soiling, shading, module
mismatch, wire losses, inverter and transformer losses, shortfalls in
actual nameplate ratings, panel degradation over time, and high-temperature
losses for arrays mounted close to or integrated within a roofline. These
loss factors can vary by season, geographic location, mounting technique,
azimuth, and array tilt. Examples of estimated losses from varying factors
can be found at:
http://rredc.nrel.gov/solar/codes_algs/PVWATTS/system.html.
And you might also want to see
http://www.gosolarcalifornia.org/equipment/pvmodule.html
Homer's default settings apply derate the panels to 80% of their claimed
rating. But you can vary this.
By the way, I would recommend that you find out more about the HF system
before deciding to purchase it. Given their high claimed efficiency, I
would very much wonder about how they are rating their panels, and whether
this can even come close to being replicated in the real world.
Also, it should not be particularly difficult to input your actual usage
pattern, with regard to electricity usage, into HOMER and get a more
accurate modeling. Especially with your being closed when it is dark, your
winter usage will be much less than I initially predicted and, since your
power usage will be mostly coincident with your power generation, your
storage requirements may also be affected.
--ron
Ron Rosenfeld
<alt.g...@Kryder.com> wrote:
>ps -
>regarding this: >>So that means, as a minimum, assuming, let us say,
>6W average requirements
>that your panels need to have an output of 6 x 24 / 2.55 --> 56.47
>W ...
>
>I can see the math, but, how does that account for the fact that the
>panels may not be a meter square and won't have 100% efficiency?
------------------------------------
By the way, my re-reading my last post shows that it is not clear that this
paragraph is quoted from
http://www.gosolarcalifornia.org/equipment/pvmodule.html
---------------------------------------
Neither PTC nor STC account for all "real-world" losses. Actual solar
systems will produce lower outputs due to soiling, shading, module
mismatch, wire losses, inverter and transformer losses, shortfalls in
actual nameplate ratings, panel degradation over time, and high-temperature
losses for arrays mounted close to or integrated within a roofline. These
loss factors can vary by season, geographic location, mounting technique,
azimuth, and array tilt. Examples of estimated losses from varying factors
can be found at:
http://rredc.nrel.gov/solar/codes_algs/PVWATTS/system.html.
And you might also want to see
http://www.gosolarcalifornia.org/equipment/pvmodule.html
--ron
philkryder
> On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 01:18:44 -0700 (PDT), philkryder
>
>
> Homer's default settings apply derate the panels to 80% of their claimed
> rating. But you can vary this.
>
> By the way, I would recommend that you find out more about the HF system
> before deciding to purchase it. Given their high claimed efficiency, I
> would very much wonder about how they are rating their panels, and whether
> this can even come close to being replicated in the real world.
>
> Also, it should not be particularly difficult to input your actual usage
> pattern, with regard to electricity usage, into HOMER and get a more
> accurate modeling. Especially with your being closed when it is dark, your
> winter usage will be much less than I initially predicted and, since your
> power usage will be mostly coincident with your power generation, your
> storage requirements may also be affected.
> --ron
Ron - I think that there are 3 of those panels in the 45 watt setup.
thus rating of 5% rather than 15...
philkryder
well now George, I went to their website and found it a bit confusing.
I wanted to find a simple product that would meet my 3-9 watt needs;
but, all I found was marketing info and futures.
could you give me a link to such a product I could buy now to meet my
needs?
I do find all this interesting and informative, but, I have no
interest in their plans for the US.
philkryder
We rarely have temps below 25degrees F.
But,
summer temps in the storage container might reach 125F.
Is there a link to show the voltage to temp relationship?
thanks
Phil
Ron Rosenfeld
<alt.g...@Kryder.com> wrote:
>Ron - I think that there are 3 of those panels in the 45 watt setup.
>thus rating of 5% rather than 15...
Phil,
If those dimensions are "per panel" then, of course, you are correct. It
wasn't clear to me, from the way their specs are on this page:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=90599
whether the dimensions referred to one panel or all three.
But 5% is certainly more believable (and also quite a bit less than the
efficiency of other panels -- which may not be an issue if the price is
right and you have the space to install).
Looking a bit further, I see that the company has a 15W 12V
(http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=96418)
panel for sale which appears to be the same as one (1) of the panels in the
kit, and it measures about the same. So you are undoubtedly correct in
your 5% assessment.
--ron
Ron Rosenfeld
<alt.g...@Kryder.com> wrote:
>Is there a link to show the voltage to temp relationship?
That information is generally published by the panel manufacturer and
relates to those panels. There does not seem to be a link to the panel
spec sheets for these panels.
--ron
ghio
Yeah, email TekSolar, <coi...@nex.net.au> tell them what you want
and they will supply it. The person to contact is John Gladdis. The
site is still being built and the reason it is on line at all is that
there a number of people in two states involved supplying information
and ideas for the site.
This is just an option, they can supply a plug and play module that
will do what you want. Or you can design a system yourself or with
with other people's advice.
My other advice stands, 1 - 80W panel and a 120Ah battery, which is
correct for you requirements and gives 8 days autonomy. Remember that
whatever you take out of the batteries must be replaced, plus a
minimum of 10% to cover battery inefficiencies. i.e. take 100Ahs out -
put back at least 110Ahs.
Of course you must make your own decision in regards to your project.
If you are unable to calculate the sizing yourself, you cannot tell
the difference that different size panels will make to the system's
performance. You must be able to know and accept your limitations. An
example; I have three vehicles. A SR 500cc Yamaha, a 30yo HQ Holden
Ute and a late model sedan. I am quite at home working on the bike and
the Holden, but the sedan goes to the garage for servicing. I don't
understand the new cars with computers at all and have no wish to
learn.
As you are asking other people what you need for the project, it is a
fair bet that you already concede that you do not have the ability to
design your own system. That leaves three options:
1) Learn how to design a system.
2) Blindly accept a system design form someone else, admitting that
you have no way to check its correctness.
3) Buy a prebuilt system.
I wish you good fortune in which ever solution you choose.
George
philkryder
sorry Ron -
I was referring to the comment about correct battery charging voltages
for the batteries.
It sounds like the charging voltages should vary based on the
temperature of the battery.
I was wondering how I could determine what voltage was optimal for the
battery at a given temp.
Sorry for the un-specific question.
Phil
Ron Rosenfeld
<alt.g...@Kryder.com> wrote:
>It sounds like the charging voltages should vary based on the
>temperature of the battery.
>
>I was wondering how I could determine what voltage was optimal for the
>battery at a given temp.
Oh, batteries.
I don't know if I've seen published data for that, but I haven't really
looked. The battery mfg's publish data for optimal charging voltages, but
it's usually just at 77�F (25�C). They should also publish a
"not-to-exceed" temperature. The voltages will be different for Bulk,
Float and Equalize modes. And they will also differ depending on the type
of battery (e.g. flooded lead acid; gel; AGM; etc).
My chargers have a Battery Temp Sensor which effectively alters the
charging voltage depending on the *battery* temperature. On my SW5548, it
will change the voltage (as the temp varies from 25�C) by �0.005 volts/�C
in the LEADACID mode; and �0.003 volts/�C in the NICAD mode.
Note that the charging voltage varies with the *battery* temperature and
not the ambient temperature. The sensor is a little thermistor that you
stick on (with adhesive) to the side of the battery. If it's in a
well-insulated box, it will reflect the internal temperature.
I don't know if the inexpensive chargers have compensators.
--ron
philkryder
George - have you heard anything from TekSolar?
I copied you on my email to them. Phil
ghio
Hi
Yeah, I talked to John today. He will be in the office on Monday (Sun.
in CA). He is very interested in contacting you and expects to email
you on Mon. You have to forgive him for being a bit slow, he had a
knee replacement last month and it has slowed him down a bit.
George.
stevey
Thanks for providing more detail. I see you've got a committee going!
Ron's input was very helpful.
Assuming the booster requires constant power at 6Wdc, and the worst
day for Sunlight offering 2.55 hours of 80% full Sun, you'll need 1.56
of
the 45W assembly to get 144 Watt-hours of energy. You may want to
buy two sets of the Harbor kits. Hope the 9V output from the kit has
80% plus efficiency AND can charge 6V gel-cell batteries that can hold
120 WH of energy. You'll need to find a 6.9V float charger, or my
buddy
linearBob may help you design one DIY charger.
You'll also need rigid structure to withstand perhaps 100MHP wind
and have bob-wire protection on top of the storage. It is not a
trivial task
to build your racking for 6 panels with a slight tilt(10-15 degrees)
to drain off
dust and a gap of 6" or more from the top of the storage box.
Good Luck,
-solarMD
P.S. solarMD is an alias for marketing purpose invented by me--an EE
with Master degree and 5 years of involvement with solar power.
See www.wattminder.com, --it offers free benchmark calculator for
anyone
who can enter some essential parameters about a site; to help detect
under-performing installations.
On Oct 25, 1:48 am, philkryder <alt.goo...@Kryder.com> wrote:
> Steve -
>
> Thanks for mentioning the wild animals, Vandals and Weather extremes.
>
> We don't have severe cold,
> but we do have high wind with gusts of 80 mph being not uncommon.
>
> We recently got 10 inches of rain in 36 hours.
>
> We also get fire ash from the brush/forest fires.
>
> Phil
philkryder
> Hi Phil,
>
> Thanks for providing more detail. I see you've got a committee going!
> Ron's input was very helpful.
> Assuming the booster requires constant power at 6Wdc, and the worst
> day for Sunlight offering 2.55 hours of 80% full Sun, you'll need 1.56
> of
> the 45W assembly to get 144 Watt-hours of energy. You may want to
> buy two sets of the Harbor kits. Hope the 9V output from the kit has
> 80% plus efficiency AND can charge 6V gel-cell batteries that can hold
> 120 WH of energy. You'll need to find a 6.9V float charger, or my
> buddy
> linearBob may help you design one DIY charger.
> You'll also need rigid structure to withstand perhaps 100MHP wind
> and have bob-wire protection on top of the storage. It is not a
> trivial task
> to build your racking for 6 panels with a slight tilt(10-15 degrees)
> to drain off
> dust and a gap of 6" or more from the top of the storage box.
>
> Good Luck,
> -solarMD
> P.S. solarMD is an alias for marketing purpose invented by me--an EE
> with Master degree and 5 years of involvement with solar power.
> anyone
> who can enter some essential parameters about a site; to help detect
> under-performing installations.
>
> On Oct 25, 1:48 am, philkryder <alt.goo...@Kryder.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Steve -
>
> > Thanks for mentioning the wild animals, Vandals and Weather extremes.
>
> > We don't have severe cold,
> > but we do have high wind with gusts of 80 mph being not uncommon.
>
> > We recently got 10 inches of rain in 36 hours.
>
> > We also get fire ash from the brush/forest fires.
>
> > Phil
>
> > P.S. - what is a SolarMD? I associate the honorific term "MD" with
> > medicine. Is this some new form of board certification?
Steve - thanks -
Why do I need the 6 inch gap?
Regarding mounting:
I'm hoping to block up one of the long edges of each panel so that I
have about a 19degree slope
By placing it on a 4 inch thick bit of pressure treated lumber.
By having it centered in the middle of the container, It will be 2.5
feet from each edge and will be minimally viewable from the ground
around the container.
I'm thinking that 90% or more of the time we will be using the 3 watt
minimum, so, hopefully our needs will be only half of your 6 watt
estimate.
does that seem reasonable?
Thanks again.
Phil
philkryder
>
> read more »
George - I've still not heard from the TekSolar folks. Can you "ping"
them for me? Thanks. Phil
ghio
Hi Phil
I will ring John today.
stevey
box which heats
up under the Sun. A gap allows air flow underneath the panel to cool
it down.
If you mount the panels at a tilt towards South or West, then the gap
may not be
needed at all if the tilt angle is large.
Good Luck,
-Steve
On Nov 2, 1:14 am, philkryder <alt.goo...@Kryder.com> wrote:
>
> Why do I need the 6 inch gap?
>
> Regarding mounting:
> I'm hoping to block up one of the long edges of each panel so that I
> have about a 19degree slope
> By placing it on a 4 inch thick bit of pressure treated lumber.
> By having it centered in the middle of the container, It will be 2.5
> feet from each edge and will be minimally viewable from the ground
> around the container.
>
> I'm thinking that 90% or more of the time we will be using the 3 watt
> minimum, so, hopefully our needs will be only half of your 6 watt
> estimate.
>
> does that seem reasonable?
>
> Thanks again.
>
> - Show quoted text -
ghio
>
> read more »
Hi Phil
Had a word with John. Tried to convey the concept that customer
service is important.
Still as I pointed out he has had some health issues in the last
month. Maybe I'll apply for the job of sales manager;-).
He has said he will get in contact.
ghio
John at Teksolar asked me to contact you about your request.
The up shot is that Teksolar can supply you with a Unit that has -
Charge controller and 6 volt and 12 volt power out, supplied complete
for $200US inc postage. You will need a minimum of 80 Watts of solar
panels and a 120 Ah battery. These would be supplied by you. While
Teksolar could supply both items, the current high value of the
Australian dollar makes it uneconomical, basically these items would
be cheaper in the states than the cost here plus shipping.
For your expected load this combination will give a minimum of seven
days use with no input. Given that there are very few days when there
is no input this would be closer to ten days of use with minimal
input.
The unit could be supplied with output sockets to match the plug on
the phone booster if you supply a pattern for the plug, or be supplied
with a matched plug and socket so you can attach the plug to your
unit.
Hope this helps. If I'm not careful I'll end up the online sales
manager for Teksolar.
George
wmbjk...@citlink.net
wrote:
>Hi Phil
>
>John at Teksolar asked me to contact you about your request.
I generally have little fear of dealing with overseas vendors. But the
one you're recommending has proven that he can't even be counted on to
return an email. If he won't do that much to gain a sale, then it's
reasonable to assume that he'll be just as useless if there's a
problem after purchase. And why do you frequently advertise your own
policy of buying locally, yet encourage others to buy from an
unresponsive overseas vendor?
Wayne
Josepi
to avoid local vendor that know you.
Did you use your real name or one of the 100 phoney ones you use here?
<wmbjk...@citlink.net> wrote in message
news:uuhlf5569qj49qem2...@4ax.com...
ghio
> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 02:29:11 -0800 (PST), ghio <beal...@gmail.com>
You know wayne, this is you at your typical best. There are, surprise,
surprise, who are still happy to be computer illiterate. John is
borderline, he really just doesn't want to know.
Then there are people like you who live a monkey see, monkey do life.
Never an original thought.
By the way, did you have a good run. Running away from the hard
questions being your forte.
wmbjk...@citlink.net
wrote:
>On Nov 12, 1:31�am, wmbjkREM...@citlink.net wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 02:29:11 -0800 (PST), ghio <beal...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Hi Phil
>>
>> >John at Teksolar asked me to contact you about your request.
>>
>> I generally have little fear of dealing with overseas vendors. But the
>> one you're recommending has proven that he can't even be counted on to
>> return an email. If he won't do that much to gain a sale, then it's
>> reasonable to assume that he'll be just as useless if there's a
>> problem after purchase. And why do you frequently advertise your own
>> policy of buying locally, yet encourage others to buy from an
>> unresponsive overseas vendor?
>>
>> Wayne
>
>You know wayne, this is you at your typical best. There are, surprise,
>surprise, who are still happy to be computer illiterate. John is
>borderline, he really just doesn't want to know.
If he can communicate with you, then he can communicate with his
potential customer. It's friggen ridiculous that any vendor would need
so much help, and that you continue to pretend that it's anything near
normal. If a US vendor were so incommunicative with an AU customer,
you'd be all over them.
> Running away from the hard questions
The questions I asked you were reasonable, logical, and easy to
answer... if there was a good answer. What a shock that you found them
too difficult. But it's good that you've revealed this vendor's
limitations, exactly as you do with your own. I strongly suggest that
if Teksolar plans to enter the US market, that they get a telephone, a
web site, email, and somebody who knows how to use all of those in a
timely manner. Oh, and they should read the web page below, and
disassociate themselves from quacks.
Wayne
http://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/tbfduwisdumb.htm
attention search bots: george ghio, renegade writing, bealiba
do...@39.usenet.us.com
> See www.wattminder.com, --it offers free benchmark calculator for
> anyone who can enter some essential parameters about a site; to help
> detect under-performing installations.
No workie for me. The "Begin" button doesn't seem to have a valid
reference.
--
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5
Josepi
to avoid local vendor that know you.
Did you use your real name or one of the 100 phoney ones you use here?
<wmbjk...@citlink.net> wrote in message
news:3hmmf5poq1r1fvq4u...@4ax.com...
ghio
> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 12:47:41 -0800 (PST), ghio <beal...@gmail.com>
Sad really. You have no idea at all. Passing judgment on a company you
have had no contact with at all is a good indication of your mental
state.
1) TekSolar really don't sell on line as a rule. The only reason for
contact with Phil was that he needed a product. TekSolar are willing
to build to Phil's spec.
2) Phil did not include address or phone number. John's ability with
the internet hasn't anything to do with TekSolar's products.
3) TekSolar products will be on sale across the US in the next twelve
to 18 months.
4) Johns other business "ColiTek" which supplies metal detector coils
is a well respected business. They supply high performance coils
around the world. Why don't you google <metal detector coils>. I
suspect that the TekSolar side of his business will have the same
impact in the solar industry as CoilTek has had in the detector
industry.
Josepi
a first clue to most people what went wrong in his dealings with this
business person.
Of course most people here have him on ignore anyway so there isn't much of
an audience.
"ghio" <bea...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:528f3d2d-a966-4de0...@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
wmbjk...@citlink.net
wrote:
>On Nov 12, 11:46�am, wmbjkREM...@citlink.net wrote:
Well, let's see... I know that nobody at the company can return an
email. And I know that the front page of their web site has a
paragraph that reads like it was plucked from one of your ghinius
posts.
**********
"Changing the energy in sunlight into electricity is easy. You
calculate all your loads, buy panels, a battery, a charge controller,
several metres of wire and assemble a system. It might even do what
you want."
**********
And I know that you claim to be an editor, and that you're sleazy
enough to promote a company without mentioning that you have a
relationship with them.
>1) TekSolar really don't sell on line as a rule.
They have a web site, they invite email inquiries, and they say they
take credit cards via phone. So obviously they hoped to sell online,
perhaps by some sort of magical process you'll soon explain for
readers' amusement.
>The only reason for
>contact with Phil was that he needed a product.
They *did not* contact phil at all. The only reason we're still
hearing about them is because you're too pigheaded to simply say
"sorry I recommended them, apparently they're not very interested in
your business".
> TekSolar are willing
>to build to Phil's spec.
Then they ought to have emailed their prospect immediately. Instead,
they and you have nitwittedly conspired to create bad press.
>2) Phil did not include address or phone number.
Phil emailed. Tell Teksolar that the reply button is the one that says
reply on it.
>John's ability with
>the internet hasn't anything to do with TekSolar's products.
What ability? If he can't do email, he has less ability than the
average 12 year old. If he puts his email address on the web, but then
ignores emails, he has less ability than the average Nigerian.
>3) TekSolar products will be on sale across the US in the next twelve
>to 18 months.
Good. People who google the name will see this thread, along with the
posts of gymmy bob, and the wisdumb page of Teksolar's CEM (chief
excuse maker).
>4) Johns other business "ColiTek" which supplies metal detector coils
>is a well respected business. They supply high performance coils
>around the world. Why don't you google <metal detector coils>. I
>suspect that the TekSolar side of his business will have the same
>impact in the solar industry as CoilTek has had in the detector
>industry.
People who aren't smart enough to respond to email, or to hire someone
to respond to email, are highly unlikely to be successful in any
endeavor. Your proven-quack endorsement is worthless to this
newsgroup, and something that any truly successful biz would avoid
like the plague.
ghio
> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 20:04:58 -0800 (PST), ghio <beal...@gmail.com>
Sure, made to order products can't be sold off the shelf.
>
> >The only reason for
> >contact with Phil was that he needed a product.
>
> They *did not* contact phil at all. The only reason we're still
> hearing about them is because you're too pigheaded to simply say
> "sorry I recommended them, apparently they're not very interested in
> your business".
It was never said that they contacted Phil, I recommended that Phil
contact them.
>
> > TekSolar are willing
> >to build to Phil's spec.
>
> Then they ought to have emailed their prospect immediately. Instead,
> they and you have nitwittedly conspired to create bad press.
Oh, by bad press you are referring to yourself. Hardly bad press, just
a wannabe poser who never designed a system in his life.
>
> >2) Phil did not include address or phone number.
>
> Phil emailed. Tell Teksolar that the reply button is the one that says
> reply on it.
Been explained.
>
> >John's ability with
> >the internet hasn't anything to do with TekSolar's products.
>
> What ability? If he can't do email, he has less ability than the
> average 12 year old. If he puts his email address on the web, but then
> ignores emails, he has less ability than the average Nigerian.
Believe it or not, there are millions who of intelligent people who
just don't care to use computers. Sorry if that offends.
>
> >3) TekSolar products will be on sale across the US in the next twelve
> >to 18 months.
>
> Good. People who google the name will see this thread, along with the
> posts of gymmy bob, and the wisdumb page of Teksolar's CEM (chief
> excuse maker).
Better than good. A solid plug and play modular system.
>
> >4) Johns other business "ColiTek" which supplies metal detector coils
> >is a well respected business. They supply high performance coils
> >around the world. Why don't you google <metal detector coils>. I
> >suspect that the TekSolar side of his business will have the same
> >impact in the solar industry as CoilTek has had in the detector
> >industry.
>
> People who aren't smart enough to respond to email, or to hire someone
> to respond to email, are highly unlikely to be successful in any
> endeavor. Your proven-quack endorsement is worthless to this
> newsgroup, and something that any truly successful biz would avoid
> like the plague.
Believe it or not, there are millions of intelligent people who just
don't care to use computers. Sorry if that offends.
My endorsement was to Phil as to where he can get the product he
needs. The offer is there.
Your real problem, is of course that you need to get back at me for
kicking your puppy "Steve". Hard luck. Unlike your puppy, TekSolar
does not offer free goods tied to sales.
I know you googled <metal detector coils> so you and everyone else who
did the search knows that the company has a solid background. The
TekSolar site is not "officially" on line nor is TekSolar "officially"
open. Phil wanted a product. TekSolar has offered to build a unit to
meet Phil's requirements.
You really are a very disturbed person. Find a good counselor.
Josepi
racist.
<wm...@citlink.net> wrote in message
news:sj5of59ib6i84aea5...@4ax.com...
> What ability? If he can't do email, he has less ability than the
> average 12 year old. If he puts his email address on the web, but then
> ignores emails, he has less ability than the average Nigerian.
> Wayne
>
> http://www.citlink.net/wmbjk/Iam_dumb.htm
wmbjk...@citlink.net
wrote:
>On Nov 13, 1:54�am, wmbjkREM...@citlink.net wrote:
<sound of crickets chirping>
I see the usual predictable flood of ghinius weaseling, non-sequiturs,
and outright BS. Yet curiously <chuckle> not a single word about why
the web site he recommended reads exactly like all his other
gloriously goofy prose! Good golly, whatever could make ol' george so
quiet on a subject? Embarrassed by his handiwork? Shocked that his
silly riteeng gave him away on the first section of the first page?
Didn't think that any readers here would mind a little conflict of
interest, even after being harshly judgmental in a recent thread
discussing that very thing? Couldn't quite imagine that anyone would
call him on suddenly contradicting his oft-repeated buy-local mantra?
Thought that bad customer service was acceptable, so long as he got a
few bucks out of it?
Same old transparently sleazy blundering ghio. Couldn't get hired
except by someone with zero net-savvy, and couldn't resist promoting
his own interest in the one place where he was guaranteed to get
busted for it.
Wayne
http://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/tbfduwisdumb.htm
attention search bots: george ghio, renegade writing, bealiba,
teksolar.com.au
ghio
> On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 13:37:58 -0800 (PST), ghio <beal...@gmail.com>
Ok wayne, you hate me, so tell us we don't already know.
The reason you hate me is that I pegged your system for what it is
more than ten years ago. A simple sham, lots of claims, no substance.
While I can and will take credit for my overview of your system only
YOU can take credit for proving that my summation was correct. Yes I'm
afraid that it is true.YOU made claims that YOU could not prove. In
fact YOU, to this day, can not tell us what YOU run, how much each
load consumes, how long each load is run or even a convincing value
for the system generation. YOU have put YOUR foot in YOUR mouth with
the admission that you need fifty hours a year of petrol powered
charging at 80 Amps. Yes, YOU need some 4000 extra Amp hours of
charging in one of the sunniest places on earth when YOU first claimed
to be energy self sufficient.
In the second case YOU, when challenged, admitted that YOU did in fact
lie about building YOUR house. YOU never did build YOUR house. When
caught out YOU changed YOUR story to that of being the General
Contractor. As General Contractor YOU failed to properly supervise the
subcontractors that YOU hired to build YOUR house.
As YOU can see, YOU are YOUR own worst enemy. I made some
observations. YOU, very kindly verified the truth of my observations.
YOU, are in fact, the only one responsible for for YOUR lack of
credibility. Neither YOU nor YOUR childish hate site can hurt me. Hard
luck eh!
As for the site for TekSolar, which, by the way is still under
construction, perhaps YOU can prove my involvement with it. Shouldn't
be too hard, even for YOU. Each page is clearly marked for content and
provider. I wonder how long it will take.
wmbjk...@citlink.net
wrote:
>As for the site for TekSolar, which, by the way is still under
>construction, perhaps YOU can prove my involvement with it. Shouldn't
>be too hard, even for YOU. Each page is clearly marked for content and
>provider. I wonder how long it will take.
Why do I need to prove anything? Your idiotic diversions make it
obvious that you sent Phil on a wild goose chase to a site that you
knew full well had nothing on it but empty exaggerations ... because
you wrote them, and that's all you're any good for. When he pointed
out that the site wasn't of any use, you wasted more of his time by
telling him to email, even though you knew that your employer isn't
computer literate enough to respond. Then you had the gall to imply
that Phil should have included his phone number if he expected a
response! In typical ghinius fashion, nothing you've done here was any
help to the OP, you, or teksolar. But at least anyone searching will
now be able to see everything that you can't bring yourself to say in
plain English.
Josepi
Which one of you has the biggest dick?
Remember Wayne, on your face doesn't count.
<wmbjk...@citlink.net> wrote in message
news:vmnqf59iucir6hhn6...@4ax.com...
Morris Dovey
> OK. Let's settle it.
>
> Which one of you has the biggest dick?
ROFL!
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
ghio
> On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 23:48:47 -0800 (PST), ghio <beal...@gmail.com>
Yes wayne. In plain English at the bottom of each page.
ghio
> OK. Let's settle it.
>
> Which one of you has the biggest dick?
>
> Remember Wayne, on your face doesn't count.
>
>
> news:vmnqf59iucir6hhn6...@4ax.com...
>
> > On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 23:48:47 -0800 (PST), ghio <beal...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> >>As for the site for TekSolar, which, by the way is still under
> >>construction, perhaps YOU can prove my involvement with it. Shouldn't
> >>be too hard, even for YOU. Each page is clearly marked for content and
> >>provider. I wonder how long it will take.
>
> > Why do I need to prove anything? Your idiotic diversions make it
> > obvious that you sent Phil on a wild goose chase to a site that you
> > knew full well had nothing on it but empty exaggerations ... because
> > you wrote them, and that's all you're any good for. When he pointed
> > out that the site wasn't of any use, you wasted more of his time by
> > telling him to email, even though you knew that your employer isn't
> > computer literate enough to respond. Then you had the gall to imply
> > that Phil should have included his phone number if he expected a
> > response! In typical ghinius fashion, nothing you've done here was any
> > help to the OP, you, or teksolar. But at least anyone searching will
> > now be able to see everything that you can't bring yourself to say in
> > plain English.
>
> > Wayne
>
> >http://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/tbfduwisdumb.htm
> > attention search bots: george ghio, renegade writing, bealiba,
> > teksolar.com.au
Oh, there is no question about it, wayne has the biggest dick. That's
why he's always at the front of the daisy chain gang shouting "Form a
circle, form a circle".
stevey
Sorry, the Wattminder site is a new facade under construction, with
only
'Form'('Entering Essential parameters', 'New User', 'Contact us'
links working.
Please use our beta site www.pvmonitor.net instead.
I've created a site for you as 'DoldHVV' with default values except
Lat & Long.
If you would create an account, then I'll be able to set your site
parameters
to correspond to your input. This tool is our contribution to PV
owners who
want to check up on their systems' performance to ascertain optimal
output.
Thanks for your feedback, we have limited resources (web skills), but
will
refine our wattminder site at times with user's feedback. Good Luck,
On Nov 11, 5:42 pm, d...@39.usenet.us.com wrote:
> stevey <scy...@wattminder.com> wrote:
> > Seewww.wattminder.com, --it offers free benchmark calculator for