Starting small
Alan
like them. It got me thinking about how could I do some solar lighting
inside on the cheap. Is there a good website or book that would tell
me how to start small and install a solar panel or two and wire it to
some rechargeable batteries and some LED lights for nightlights and
decorative accents?
Maybe if enough people start small and see the potential, solar
systems could grow enormously in the next decade.
Mauried
wrote:
It sounds like a good idea, starting small, except it isnt.
If you have a look at the price per watt of small solar panels
compared to large ones, its far better to design the system you need
from scratch and then build it using the most cost effective ($ per
watt) solar panels.
Small solar panels are extremely expensive for the $ per watt you get.
Roland Mösl
news:c2d0d6ad-d3ac-4796...@w34g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
I made my first photovoltac experience 1995 on the beach
with a notebook.
Now I have to work outside a 34 W foldable moduel
http://laptop.pege.org/2005-photovoltaic/
--
Roland Mösl
http://car.pege.org cars and traffic
http://live.pege.org building and live
http://www.pege.org
Alan
> It sounds like a good idea, starting small, except it isnt.
> If you have a look at the price per watt of small solar panels
> compared to large ones, its far better to design the system you need
> from scratch and then build it using the most cost effective ($ per
> watt) solar panels.
> Small solar panels are extremely expensive for the $ per watt you get.
I am not looking to do a whole system. I want to light up some LED
lights. This is what I mean, that people make adding some solar power
to your home a major undertaking. What if I took a solar battery
charger, like item 220230901813 on ebay, and had it charge up D cells
and have the D cells wired to some LED lights. Not take the cells out
but leave them in the charger AND have them wired to the LEDs.
Wouldn't that work?
Martin Riddle
"Roland Mösl" <fou...@pege.org> wrote in message news:3efb9$481d7eb9$557f3989$17...@news.inode.at...
> "Alan" <Ala...@pacbell.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:c2d0d6ad-d3ac-4796...@w34g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
>> We installed those solar powered Malibu lights last year and really
>> like them. It got me thinking about how could I do some solar lighting
>> inside on the cheap. Is there a good website or book that would tell
>> me how to start small and install a solar panel or two and wire it to
>> some rechargeable batteries and some LED lights for nightlights and
>> decorative accents?
>> Maybe if enough people start small and see the potential, solar
>> systems could grow enormously in the next decade.
>
> I made my first photovoltac experience 1995 on the beach
> with a notebook.
>
> Now I have to work outside a 34 W foldable moduel
>
> http://laptop.pege.org/2005-photovoltaic/
>
nice, I did not know you could screw into the top of a battery.
Cheers
Eeyore
Alan wrote:
> We installed those solar powered Malibu lights last year and really
> like them. It got me thinking about how could I do some solar lighting
> inside on the cheap. Is there a good website or book that would tell
> me how to start small and install a solar panel or two and wire it to
> some rechargeable batteries and some LED lights for nightlights and
> decorative accents?
For novelty value you mean ?
> Maybe if enough people start small and see the potential, solar
> systems could grow enormously in the next decade.
PV solar is hopelessly too expensive and in short supply to do more than
scratch the surface of power use.
Want to reduce your lighting bill (power use) - use CFLs. Want to reduce
your heating bill (power use) - fit decent ihome/office insulation. Both
are cheap to do and VERY effective. Also look at heat pumps.
Graham
Phil Ross
news:481E3E5D...@hotmail.com...
CFLs, replaced many of our appliances with Energy Star ones, installed
double pane windows, drilled holes in our walls and blew in insulation and
added more into the attic. After taking these steps and managing to decrease
our electrical usage to an average 12kWh per day, we decided that the time
was right to install a PV solar system, and we were able to get by with a
relatively small 2.3kW grid-tied system that meets over 100% of our usage
annually. 14 panels and one 3kW inverter did the trick. 12kWh is below
average usage for California, and way below average for your typical three
bedroom house anywhere else in the US, so it doesn't have to be a matter of
all or nothing. Solar isn't ideal for all regions or situations, but we are
in an area blessed with very good insolation and a very moderate climate
(San Francisco Bay area)
Supposedly the payback was projected to be in 10-15 years, but that really
wasn't my primary consideration. I figure that I have paid my electric bill
for the next 30 years in advance, and at age 55, I've probably made my last
payment for electricity for the rest of my life.
Phil
Gordon
755f7c...@w34g2000prm.googlegroups.com:
The power consumed by those Malibu lamps is infintisimal compared to
the total power consumed by the average house. The first step to
going solar is to conserve. 1)replace all your light bulbs with CFL.
2) If you have electric heat, hot water, or stove; replace it with gas.
(or solar heat and hot water).
If you want to start small. make it big enough to make a difference.
Get yourself a good sized solar panal, a 3Kw inverter/charger, and
a couple of golf cart batteries. Then pick a couple of circuits
that you can separate off from your main panal and run from the inverter.
Eeyore
Gordon wrote:
> Alan <Ala...@pacbell.net> wrote
Here's a 3kW system. It's still fabulously expensive though ( $18k ). Don't
ever expect it to pay for itself.
http://www.partsonsale.com/
Graham
wmbjk...@citlink.net
wrote:
>"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:481E3E5D...@hotmail.com...
>>
>>
>> Alan wrote:
>>
>>> We installed those solar powered Malibu lights last year and really
>>> like them. It got me thinking about how could I do some solar lighting
>>> inside on the cheap. Is there a good website or book that would tell
>>> me how to start small and install a solar panel or two and wire it to
>>> some rechargeable batteries and some LED lights for nightlights and
>>> decorative accents?
>>
>> For novelty value you mean ?
>>
>>
>>> Maybe if enough people start small and see the potential, solar
>>> systems could grow enormously in the next decade.
>>
>> PV solar is hopelessly too expensive and in short supply to do more than
>> scratch the surface of power use.
>>
>> Want to reduce your lighting bill (power use) - use CFLs. Want to reduce
>> your heating bill (power use) - fit decent ihome/office insulation. Both
>> are cheap to do and VERY effective. Also look at heat pumps.
>>
>> Graham
>>
>>
>Nothing says that you can't do both.
What, you didn't consider spending the rest of your life writing
thousands of negative posts about solar instead? What are ya', some
kind of weirdo? :-)
>We replaced all of our lights with
>CFLs, replaced many of our appliances with Energy Star ones, installed
>double pane windows, drilled holes in our walls and blew in insulation and
>added more into the attic. After taking these steps and managing to decrease
>our electrical usage to an average 12kWh per day, we decided that the time
>was right to install a PV solar system, and we were able to get by with a
>relatively small 2.3kW grid-tied system that meets over 100% of our usage
>annually. 14 panels and one 3kW inverter did the trick. 12kWh is below
>average usage for California, and way below average for your typical three
>bedroom house anywhere else in the US, so it doesn't have to be a matter of
>all or nothing. Solar isn't ideal for all regions or situations, but we are
>in an area blessed with very good insolation and a very moderate climate
>(San Francisco Bay area)
>
>Supposedly the payback was projected to be in 10-15 years, but that really
>wasn't my primary consideration. I figure that I have paid my electric bill
>for the next 30 years in advance, and at age 55, I've probably made my last
>payment for electricity for the rest of my life.
>
>Phil
Congrats. We approached it with a similar attitude. Except by
combining the process with an off-grid move, savings on land made the
payoff instantaneous. As a bonus, property tax savings alone have paid
for the solar hardware at least twice more in the 13 years since. Our
cost of living went down, and our earnings on the difference went up.
Not to mention the vastly improved lifestyle, and the satisfaction
that goes along with that. It wasn't even very difficult, thousands of
others in my county are on the same path.
Wayne
Eeyore
wmbjk...@citlink.net wrote:
> "Phil Ross" wrote:
> >"Eeyore" wrote
Did you even consider applying sensible energy efficiency measures to your
previous home first ?
Graham
Alan
I ask a simple question and get dinged for not being willing to invest
tens of thousands of dollars in a system that has a payback not in my
lifetime. I get told to insulate, use cfls, go gas and all this stuff
which I already have.
I just want to play around with a solar cell, some batteries and LEDs.
I think I will check out an electronics hobbiest forum. They are
probably more down to earth and understand where I am coming from.
sheesh!
Mauried
wrote:
>Wow, I guess I am in the wrong forum.
Your not in the wrong forum.
Your original post indicated that you wanted to install some solar
powered leds in your house on the cheap.
Thats the problem.
Any small solar option isnt going to be cheap.
Solar generated power gets more and more expensive the smaller the
system is on a $ for watt basis.
Its much better to establish what your final goal is , and then work
towards it , rather than buying some small solar panels which wont be
of much use later on.
No one is suggersting you spend thousands now.
But if the final aim is to eventually get some kind of solar system to
part power your house , then thats where you should start.
Eeyore
Alan wrote:
> Wow, I guess I am in the wrong forum.
> I ask a simple question and get dinged for not being willing to invest
> tens of thousands of dollars in a system that has a payback not in my
> lifetime. I get told to insulate, use cfls, go gas and all this stuff
> which I already have.
How good is your insulation ? Most people think that they either have more
than they actually do, or that what they have is enough when it could
easily be bettered.
> I just want to play around with a solar cell, some batteries and LEDs.
> I think I will check out an electronics hobbiest forum. They are
> probably more down to earth and understand where I am coming from.
> sheesh!
Ah, well that's why I asked if it was just for novelty value. Yes, your
post would be better suited to sci.electronics.basics.
Graham
wmbjk...@citlink.net
Like all the obvious and dead-easy stuff, plus ground-source heat
pump? Oh no, we didn't have Usenet then, so we couldn't possibly have
thought of anything like that... As I've written here several times,
one of the reasons we were able to do well cashing out of our last
place in a down market was that we had the low utility bills to prove
the energy efficiency of the home. That set us apart from lots of
otherwise similar places that were available at the time.
But you don't seem to have any interest in success stories, so lets
talk about the opposite. Instead of writing all these Negative Nelly
posts proclaiming how impossibly difficult everything is, why don't
you save some time and just write a single essay admitting that you
can't manage what so many others have already done. Then you could
apply all that time you've been wasting here to say, building a solar
water-heating setup. Since I doubt you'll ever do anything that
sensible, it begs a couple of obvious questions. If you can't make
productive use of your own time, then why the heck should anybody be
interested in your armchair advice? And why the heck do you go
anywhere near solar energy discussion groups when you have zero
productive interest in the topic?
Wayne
wmbjk...@citlink.net
wrote:
>Wow, I guess I am in the wrong forum.
The problem isn't any particular newsgroup, but that newsgroups are
ofttimes dominated by nitwits who have all the time in the world for
projecting their own helplessness onto others. For example, click on
this search for an extreme case http://tinyurl.com/5rrbse. Here's my
advice: 1. Ignore people who post so much that they couldn't
possibly have enough free time to gain any experience in the topic at
hand. 2. Consider that most of those with the experience you'd like
to mine have better things to do than write (and/or get criticized)
about it. 3. Check out web sites like these.
http://www.redrok.com/main.htm
http://www.builditsolar.com/
http://www.green-trust.org/
http://members.autobahn.mb.ca/~het/energy/energy.html
4. Build or buy whatever makes you happy.
Wayne
Roland Mösl
news:pDqTj.767$b%1.33@trndny04...
I did not screw, it's with a double sides adhesive tape
bea...@gmail.com
> On Sun, 4 May 2008 19:28:37 -0700 (PDT), Alan <Ala...@pacbell.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Wow, I guess I am in the wrong forum.
> >I ask a simple question and get dinged for not being willing to invest
> >tens of thousands of dollars in a system that has a payback not in my
> >lifetime. I get told to insulate, use cfls, go gas and all this stuff
> >which I already have.
> >I just want to play around with a solar cell, some batteries and LEDs.
> >I think I will check out an electronics hobbiest forum. They are
> >probably more down to earth and understand where I am coming from.
> >sheesh!
>
> The problem isn't any particular newsgroup, but that newsgroups are
> ofttimes dominated by nitwits who have all the time in the world for
> projecting their own helplessness onto others. For example, click on
> advice: 1. Ignore people who post so much that they couldn't
> possibly have enough free time to gain any experience in the topic at
> hand. 2. Consider that most of those with the experience you'd like
> to mine have better things to do than write (and/or get criticized)
> 4. Build or buy whatever makes you happy.
>
> Wayne
Yeah, and another type of person to avoid is the one that claims to
have designed his system but can't provide the numbers for his it,
neither input or use,in fact he only copied his system from a
magazine, found it did not work and kept throwing panels at it until
it would do what he wanted. At least during daylight hours. This
person also claimed to have built his house. When questioned he
changed his story to his being the general contractor. He then blamed
all the sub-contractors for all the faults caused by his incompetence
as general contractor. He rushed into building on a green concrete
slab which subsequently cracked, again blaming the sub-contractor.
In short, the truth is that wayne has not the least clue as to what he
says. He just repeats what ever he feels makes him look knowledgeable.
He has no knowledge of his own.
bea...@gmail.com
Starting small is a false economy.
Work out all your lighting, correctly design a system to meet the
load, and relax. Although, when you are the only one in the street to
have lights when the grid goes down you could get lynched, nobody
likes a smart ass.
Kris Krieger
516a81...@y22g2000prd.googlegroups.com:
I'm new to this group - someone recommended it to me because I had a very
similar question to yours, but even simpler - I want to learn how to
assemble the parts for on-at-evening, off-at-dawn solar garden lights,
becasue I'm getting into stained glass and thought of making my own yard
lights, esp. good-sized ones using multiple bulbs. I suppose what I migh
tneed is "Solar electronics Basics for Dummies", except that it doesn't
seem to exist. Basically, i want to know how to match a bulb of a given
power requirement (since I can pop on over to Fry's and buy thse), the
correct type fo wiring, and so on, and put them together correctly.
I've made the same observation as did you: mention something small that
ought to be really simple, and you get replies that jump into the
complexities of making your entire home off-grid. If one re-emphasizes
"simple", one is generally told to "just go buy one and take it apart".
SO, like you, I'm looking for the Basics of *small* lights and light-
ssytems.
- Kris Krieger
Anthony Matonak
> ... I want to learn how to
> becasue I'm getting into stained glass and thought of making my own yard
> lights, esp. good-sized ones using multiple bulbs.
There are plenty of basic electronics websites out there that
show you how to do things like this. There are also surplus
electronics stores that will often sell things like solar
panels, charge controllers, light sensors, etc.
www.allelectronics.com sells solar lights and parts.
You can try a google search to get yourself started...
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=diy+solar+light&btnG=Search
Anthony
Kris Krieger
news:482e5df7$0$3354$4c36...@roadrunner.com:
Thanks for the links - I didn't think to use "diy" becasue I didn't realize
it was that common/valid an abbreviation. I'm looking through both now,
thanks :) !
- K.
wmbjk...@citlink.net
... his same old same old BS. I'm assuming that things still aren't
going very well at Ghinius Entarprizes... :-)
New readers might enjoy some of the entertaining samples of Ghio
wisdumb at http://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/tbfduwisdumb.htm and
http://www.lowexpecations.com/
Wayne
Roderick
> Alan <Ala...@pacbell.net> wrote in news:51ffdc8c-be02-428d-af9a-
>
> - Show quoted text -
Since you mention Fry's, are you in the South San Francisco Bay Area?
For a solar powered lights solution like you mention, there's a
Chinese guy that sells at the Electronics Flea Market, DeAnza college,
6 am - 12 noon, 2nd Saturday of each month. The setup he had was not
cheap, but might be a value considering the quality. It had a
polycrystalline panel, not amorphous silicon, and charged Li-ion for
an LED security light.
bea...@gmail.com
> On Thu, 15 May 2008 19:15:57 -0700 (PDT), beal...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> ... his same old same old BS. I'm assuming that things still aren't
> going very well at Ghinius Entarprizes... :-)
>
> New readers might enjoy some of the entertaining samples of Ghio
> wisdumb athttp://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/tbfduwisdumb.htmandhttp://www.lowexpecations.com/
>
> Wayne
Oh wayne, as much as I would like to help you humiliate yourself I
have a deadline as a historian to meet. Suffice it to say that I built
my house, you had a house built for you. I designed my system, you
copied yours - found it did not meet your needs and kept throwing
panels at it until it did. I understand the principles and maths of
system sizing and design, you, in the last ten years have not been
able to explain what your system produces or uses - not so much as the
numbers behind you claim of two days autonomy.
You do not now - have never - and from the look of it, will never
understand system design.
Bye
wmbjk...@citlink.net
>On May 18, 12:18 am, wmbjkREM...@citlink.net wrote:
>> On Thu, 15 May 2008 19:15:57 -0700 (PDT), beal...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> ... his same old same old BS. I'm assuming that things still aren't
>> going very well at Ghinius Entarprizes... :-)
>>
>> New readers might enjoy some of the entertaining samples of Ghio
>> wisdumb at
http://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/tbfduwisdumb.htm and
http://www.lowexpecations.com/
>>
>> Wayne
>
>Oh wayne, as much as I would like to help you humiliate yourself I
>have a deadline as a historian to meet.
Too funny. Considering your decade-long habit of publishing ludicrous
recommendations such as "300k" wire, when can we expect some
"historian" quotes about the Magna Truckta and the Declaration of
Indepencildance?
>Bye
If only. You'll be barfing out more wisdumb for
http://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/tbfduwisdumb.htm soon enough, and
following up with fresh claims of ever more ridiculous renaissance
nitwit avocations.
Wayne
Kris Krieger
news:5724d133-5d92-4f7d...@a9g2000prl.googlegroups.com:
No, Houston, TX, for the past 3 yrs.
> For a solar powered lights solution like you mention, there's a
> Chinese guy that sells at the Electronics Flea Market, DeAnza college,
> 6 am - 12 noon, 2nd Saturday of each month. The setup he had was not
> cheap, but might be a value considering the quality. It had a
> polycrystalline panel, not amorphous silicon, and charged Li-ion for
> an LED security light.
>
Thanks for the info, because it's a help knowing the right things to look
for. Since I am looking to do hand-crafted-glass projects (and
hopefully, sell), I'd like to eb able to assemble the lighting components
as well, since that would help lower my costs and make me able to give
piotential customers a better price. So what I can now do is also look
for the items you mentioned. ALso on the up side, the links that had
been provided by Anthony Matonak have also been a help, and led me to
"how to make your own solar lantern", as well as other info. I've also
received some good info over in alt.architecture from a fellow.
So thanks to all providers of useful information :) It's great to
finally get some good info that will let me get started. ((Also great to
receive input other than "home solar is too difficult and expensive to
bother with" in reply to a basic "how do I make a simple solar garden
light or other simple solar project". Additionally, also great to read
something other than people wasting time and badwidth on insulting, and
sniping at, one other.))
And, since learning is based upon previous learning, once I know the most
basic things, it will also help me better understand the larger solar-
home things. So I appreciate the info you both have provided.
Thanks!
- Kris K.
bea...@gmail.com
> On Sun, 18 May 2008 05:53:14 -0700 (PDT), beal...@gmail.com wrote:
> >On May 18, 12:18 am, wmbjkREM...@citlink.net wrote:
> >> On Thu, 15 May 2008 19:15:57 -0700 (PDT), beal...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >> ... his same old same old BS. I'm assuming that things still aren't
> >> going very well at Ghinius Entarprizes... :-)
>
> >> New readers might enjoy some of the entertaining samples of Ghio
> >> wisdumb at
>
>
>
>
> >> Wayne
>
> >Oh wayne, as much as I would like to help you humiliate yourself I
> >have a deadline as a historian to meet.
>
> Too funny. Considering your decade-long habit of publishing ludicrous
> recommendations such as "300k" wire, when can we expect some
> "historian" quotes about the Magna Truckta and the Declaration of
> Indepencildance?
>
> >Bye
>
> following up with fresh claims of ever more ridiculous renaissance
> nitwit avocations.
>
> Wayne
Gee wayne, it is truly an amazing thing. You, in fact, know less about
the art of writing than you do about system design and your system's
performance.
This being the case you have entered into a state of negative
knowledge.
But then, for those of us that have watched your sad attempts, over
some ten years, to bluff and bluster your way without ever producing a
single set of coherent figures for your systems performance, nothing
surprises any more.