Kalahari Crash
Schwann
THE KALAHARI U.F.O. CRASH
Mystery and subterfuge shroud 'The Kalahari UFO Crash'.
The incident has been reported in daily newspapers and UFO magazines
alike. Some sources date the crash as 7th May 1989, others sources
quote the same date for 1988. The UFO was allegedly shot down by a
South African Air Force Mirage jet and crashed near the border between
Botswana and South Africa.
Quest International, a well known UK magazine printed a Special
Edition devoted to the subject in May/June 1993. According to their
reporter a joint S.A.A.F.-U.S.A.F called OPERATION SILVER DIAMOND was
mounted to recover the occupants and debris. A former
Lieutenant-Colonel of the U.S.A.F. is quoted as saying..."My contacts
in naval intelligence have informed me that we [The United States]
have given the South Africans advanced technology in exchange for a
U.F.O.".
Among the threads of evidence is a printed photocopy of a faxed
response to a query from Wright-Patterson Airforce Base which refers
to a satellite re-entry on 7 th May 1988 and a confirmation of a
'fireball or satellite re-entry' in the same area on 7th May 1988. A
researcher at Quest claims to have phoned N.O.R.A.D. and asked the
duty officer to provide any information relating to this date and
location. The officer allegedly replied that 'an unknown object was
tracked on entering the region'. The magazine goes on to state that
.."two totally independent researchers made their way to South Africa
to conduct their own enquiries into the case". Each reported that a
crash landing of some kind had taken place in the Kalahari Desert. The
one report was from Dr. J.J. Hurtak, an American ufologist and
Professor of Science, the other was from J. Von Buttlara, a German
researcher. Both were able to confirm Military sightings of an
'object' over South African airspace. There are also reports of a
nameless researcher who travelled into the Kalahari region where he
spoke at length with local tribesman who confirmed having seen strange
aerial objects in the area.
A report during 1993 in 'The Argus', a Cape Town daily newspaper, told
of claims of an international 'cover-up' and 'disinformation exercise'
that is blocking attempts by researchers to uncover the 'truth'. It
also named Botswana's Environment Minister, Dithoko Seiso, as
confirming the incident.
Cynthia Hind of Zimbabwe, a world famous UFO researcher and author of
a book on UFO's in Southern Africa subsequently wrote an article that
was published in the 'UFO Times'. It was titled; "Anatomy of a hoax.
The UFO crash on the South African/Botswana border". This article
exposes one, James Van Greunen, as the originator of an extremely
elaborate hoax. She points out inconsistencies and discrepancies in
the alleged documents as proof. Amongst these are 14 spelling mistakes
in what claimed to be an official document. When Van Greunen was
confronted he admitted he had faked some details. But he still
insisted it was a true story about a downed object on the border
repeated to him in confidence by a friend of his, Hendrik Greef, a
pilot in the S.A.A.F, who had overheard it at an officers mess. From
all this it is clear to see that case has been fraught with
controversy and bizarre reports continue to add to the confusion.
There have recently been claims that a French Intelligence officer was
murdered whilst investigating the case.
When the author attempted to track the sources of the above newspaper
article he was told by the librarian at the Argus.
"The file has been 'borrowed' and is now 'missing'"
copyright: 12/12/96 schwann
http://aztec.co.za/users/schwann/webufo.html
Schwann
be...@cais2.cais.com
Schwann (sch...@aztec.co.za) wrote:
: THE KALAHARI U.F.O. CRASH
: Mystery and subterfuge shroud 'The Kalahari UFO Crash'.
Only to those addlepated enough to believe it happened. :)
: The incident has been reported in daily newspapers and UFO magazines
: alike. Some sources date the crash as 7th May 1989, others sources
: quote the same date for 1988. The UFO was allegedly shot down by a
: South African Air Force Mirage jet and crashed near the border between
: Botswana and South Africa.
Is this the kind of swill that allegedly gets published in the magazine
you claim is read by government officials?
<snipped for your reading pleasure>
--
Beth
"What do you want, you moon-faced assassin of joy?"
Ambassador Londo Molari
Babylon 5
Douglas Lathrop
[snip]
Trust me, Schwanky - posting it twice doesn't give it any more
credibility.
Get into the spirit of Neutopia, man! Don't you have any weird email you
can post? Sex fantasies involving dead political figures? That's what
Libby does.
--
D O U G L A S P. L A T H R O P
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
A.S.G-X Poster Child - Two words: Bon Vivant! - The NeuFreud of the USENET
Visit Stately PAPER CUT MANOR! http://www.primenet.com/~lathrop/index.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
||||||||| "Honey, prepare to enter the hive of the Anti-Christ." |||||||||
Dr. Moze
A BIG CLUE follows, oh writer-wannabe. Prepare to take notes...
In article <59p0os$og9$4...@proxy01.iafrica.com>
sch...@aztec.co.za (Schwann) writes:
> THE KALAHARI U.F.O. CRASH
>
> Mystery and subterfuge shroud 'The Kalahari UFO Crash'.
and
> Lieutenant-Colonel of the U.S.A.F. is quoted as saying..."My contacts
> in naval intelligence have informed me that we [The United States]
> have given the South Africans advanced technology in exchange for a
> U.F.O.".
and
> location. The officer allegedly replied that 'an unknown object was
> tracked on entering the region'. The magazine goes on to state that
and
> A report during 1993 in 'The Argus', a Cape Town daily newspaper, told
[and there's more, but...]
The big writing clue here is: punctuation goes *inside* the quotation
marks! Didn't they teach you that in 6th-grade grammar class? Don't you
ever *READ*???
--- Dr. Moze <DrM...@pressroom.com>
You also use 'quotation marks' around common 'words' far more often
than is 'warranted.' And they're not needed for 'alleged quotes'; only
for direct ones.
be...@cais3.cais.com
Dr. Moze (drm...@pressroom.com) wrote:
: In article <59qhqu$m...@nnrp1.news.primenet.com>
: Douglas Lathrop <lat...@primenet.com> writes:
: > Get into the spirit of Neutopia, man! Don't you have any weird email you
: > can post? Sex fantasies involving dead political figures? That's what
: > Libby does.
: >
: Yeah! I was very recently threatened with dead pig's flesh being
: planted in my mailbox. *That's* the Neutopian spirit!!! $^)
Hey, at least you got a warning. :)
: Oink Oink *whack*
You betcha!
On a side note. I'm right this very second attempting The Skatman's
recipe for carnitas. I plan on posting about how they come out, as well
as an awesome recipe for meatloaf that I and my local grocery store (gotta
give credit where credit is due) came up with.
--
Beth (Yes, I'm attempting to upgrade my miserable cooking skills)
Dr. Moze
> Get into the spirit of Neutopia, man! Don't you have any weird email you
> can post? Sex fantasies involving dead political figures? That's what
> Libby does.
>
Yeah! I was very recently threatened with dead pig's flesh being
planted in my mailbox. *That's* the Neutopian spirit!!! $^)
--- Dr. Moze <DrM...@pressroom.com>
Oink Oink *whack*
Chris H Kostanick
sch...@aztec.co.za (Schwann) writes:
> THE KALAHARI U.F.O. CRASH
>Mystery and subterfuge shroud 'The Kalahari UFO Crash'.
>The incident has been reported in daily newspapers and UFO magazines
>alike. Some sources date the crash as 7th May 1989, others sources
>quote the same date for 1988. The UFO was allegedly shot down by a
>South African Air Force Mirage jet and crashed near the border between
>Botswana and South Africa.
Those must have been some wussy aliens if a Mirage can shoot them down.
That's like a boy with a BB gun sinking a battleship. Was it a missile
kill or a gun kill? Head on attack, deflection shot, or "right up the
tail pipe"? What model of Mirage?
Chris Kostanick
Jet Car Nuetopian - everyone knows you need an Aurora to trapshoot
aliens
Schwann
drm...@pressroom.com (Dr. Moze) wrote:
>A BIG CLUE follows, oh writer-wannabe. Prepare to take notes...
Hi Doc,
I sell ideas, not grammar.
Kalahari Crash is from my Book. If you actually read the content
you'll see that the event is reported as speculation. While it is
laudable that you get paid for lecturing in different parts of the
world it is NOT what I want to do, thanks.
I was in commerce for 25 years before I began writing though it is
something I always dreamed of doing. 6th Grade is somewhere in my
distant past and impediments like punctuation marks do not render my
writing unreadable, nor do they detract from my plot. Neural typing is
much more pleasant to tune your brain to, unless your attitude
precludes it. It's interesting to note Dougie's story on his website
(which I glanced through). 9 Chapters. Sheesh. All that hard work for
nothing. Like Jesse said, who's gonna publishIish him if he's already
halfway there. The writings not that bad, but he reads like a John
Shirley wannabee. Cept *he* hasn't lived it like John, so it's kinda
superficial...know what I mean?
Besides which, a future world without drugs? Get real. Hallucinogenics
are biological nano-tech machines that have been around for thousands
of years before Christ. But then you already know that. Thanks for the
crit and check alt.cyberpunk.chatsubo for another Kalahari Crash post.
A different angle.
best,
schwann
http://aztec.co.za/users/schwann
Schwann
>sch...@aztec.co.za (Schwann) writes:
>> THE KALAHARI U.F.O. CRASH
Hi Chris,
This part of the story is based on the above newspaper article which I
have in my possession. We are talking 1988. A Mirage is mentioned.
Aurora? Depends how paranoid you are. Here's the Mirage you asked for.
The Mirage F11GX is the only aircraft of it's type in the country.
It's modified SNECMA-ATAR 9 K-50 engine gives it a potential top speed
in excess of mach 3.5. It also possesses other non standard items,
including a sophisticated battle-comp and a 'Maser Beam Projector'.
The Thor Maser has only recently been developed by Krank Corporation
of America. It uses a type of microwave energy. Deadlier. Effective
range of 25km. It's squat tube is mounted on the main body of the
aircraft beneath the pilots compartment.
and now some action thrown in for good measure;
The green HUD projected <System Operational> onto the inside of his
visor. He readjusted his night vision goggles, rechecked his suit,
scanned flickering instruments, checked links to the battle-comp and
targeting system.
"Red Leader..do you copy?" cut in the tower on UHF.
"Loud and clear - Red Control - Ready for takeoff"
"Red Leader go! - Affirmative go! - Everything Go!" said the tower.
A curt voice, unmistakably Q's, cut in; "Code Red Directive. Red
Leader confirm"
"Confirm Code Red Directive" he replied
"Cut us loose Ollie!"
"Roger - crash 'n burn! Affirmative!"
The armour-plate hood closed with a pneumatic hiss. The engineer
checked the seal then descended the gantry. The ground-crew hauled it
clear, pulled the chocks, stood to one side. He increased throttle.
The engine pitch immediately changed and the Mirage rocked unsteadily
on it's brakes. In response to invisible instructions the hangar door
began to open. Runway directly before him, he released the brakes and
edged the aircraft forwards till he cleared the door. He gave it full
throttle and lit the afterburner.
25,000 LB's of thrust shoved him back in the seat as the swept wing
aircraft ran for the dark horizon, giving him only time for one brief
glance at his instruments before the runway lights were blurring. The
Mirage clawed it's way skyward on a pillar of solid flame, machometer
and altimeter spiralling.
copyright: 12/12/94 schwann. Adapted for Internet from
'The Return Of The White Lady'
Douglas Lathrop
Schwann <sch...@aztec.co.za> wrote:
: It's interesting to note Dougie's story on his website
: (which I glanced through). 9 Chapters. Sheesh. All that hard work for
: nothing. Like Jesse said, who's gonna publishIish him if he's already
: halfway there. The writings not that bad, but he reads like a John
: Shirley wannabee.
More like a Tom Wolfe wannabe, but thanks for playing.
Doug (would be upset if he happened to think the cyberschmuck's opinion
of his writing was worth spit)
Jesse Garon
Douglas Lathrop <lat...@primenet.com> writes:
>Schwann <sch...@aztec.co.za> wrote:
>: It's interesting to note Dougie's story on his website
>: (which I glanced through). 9 Chapters. Sheesh. All that hard work for
>: nothing. Like Jesse said, who's gonna publishIish him if he's already
>: halfway there. The writings not that bad, but he reads like a John
>: Shirley wannabee.
>More like a Tom Wolfe wannabe, but thanks for playing.
Actually, I said something more like "who's going to buy the book if they
can get the fucking thing for free on the web?" A couple chapters as a
teaser is a rather good idea.
I was guessing a James Wilcox wannabe, myself. Which is a good goal.
"Jesse Garon": the God damnedest mass of tact known to the human race
---------------------------------------------------------------------
gri...@primenet.com http://www.primenet.com/~grifter/jesse.html
Chris H Kostanick
sch...@aztec.co.za (Schwann) writes:
>The Mirage F11GX is the only aircraft of it's type in the country.
>It's modified SNECMA-ATAR 9 K-50 engine gives it a potential top speed
>in excess of mach 3.5. It also possesses other non standard items,
>including a sophisticated battle-comp and a 'Maser Beam Projector'.
>The Thor Maser has only recently been developed by Krank Corporation
>of America. It uses a type of microwave energy. Deadlier. Effective
>range of 25km. It's squat tube is mounted on the main body of the
>aircraft beneath the pilots compartment.
Couple of problems here. The only fighter that will go Mach 3 is
the MIG-23. The problem is that you have to replace the engines
after EACH flight at that speed. The only jet powered aircraft that will
go MACH 3.5 or better is the SR-71, an unarmed recon aircraft. (I'm
including the YF-12 variants as they are the same basic craft.) You
couldn't get a Mirage going that fast if you strapped it to a space
shuttle Solid Rocket Booster. The particle beam weapon (not a maser)
won't be fielded until 2005 at the vary earliest, and I'm betting more
like 2010. (The will be in a Mach 6 Ramjet powered RPV)
This "F11GX" is a fantasy craft you are describing, not something
that SA had in 1988 or 1989. I don't have the Janes's for those years
handy, but I bet all you had in that time frame was some subsonic '50s
deltawing Mirages not much better than the Me-262.
Chris Kostanick
Jet Car Neutopian - There Is No Aurora
be...@cais3.cais.com
Douglas Lathrop (lat...@primenet.com) wrote:
: Schwann <sch...@aztec.co.za> wrote:
: : It's interesting to note Dougie's story on his website
: : (which I glanced through). 9 Chapters. Sheesh. All that hard work for
: : nothing. Like Jesse said, who's gonna publishIish him if he's already
: : halfway there. The writings not that bad, but he reads like a John
: : Shirley wannabee.
: More like a Tom Wolfe wannabe, but thanks for playing.
: Doug (would be upset if he happened to think the cyberschmuck's opinion
: of his writing was worth spit)
I'd take it as a sign that you've written something good. I'd have been a
lot more worried if the C-S had liked it. But he runs true to form. He's
nothing if not boringly predictable. :)
--
Beth
Douglas Lathrop
TheW...@Endor.com <be...@cais3.cais.com> wrote:
: Schwann (sch...@aztec.co.za) wrote:
: : drm...@pressroom.com (Dr. Moze) wrote:
: : >A BIG CLUE follows, oh writer-wannabe. Prepare to take notes...
: : Hi Doc,
: : I sell ideas, not grammar.
: And doing a miserable job. At least you're consistent. Should we assume
: that you did as well with your "corporation"?
Whatever Schwann is selling, his quality control sucks. No wonder his
business went belly-up.
be...@cais3.cais.com
: >A BIG CLUE follows, oh writer-wannabe. Prepare to take notes...
: Hi Doc,
: I sell ideas, not grammar.
And doing a miserable job. At least you're consistent. Should we assume
that you did as well with your "corporation"?
: Kalahari Crash is from my Book. If you actually read the content
: you'll see that the event is reported as speculation.
It's hard to read for content when there is none.
: While it is
: laudable that you get paid for lecturing in different parts of the
: world it is NOT what I want to do, thanks.
Yeah, that would require actually having something of value to say. :)
: I was in commerce for 25 years before I began writing though it is
: something I always dreamed of doing.
We're still waiting for the details of the sale. How many cents on the
dollar did you get?
: 6th Grade is somewhere in my
: distant past
Jeez, you wouldn't know it from your posts.
: and impediments like punctuation marks do not render my
: writing unreadable,
But add to the overall snooze factor of said screeds, which by virtue of
your inability to say *anything", renders your <snort> writing unreadable.
: nor do they detract from my plot.
I submit, when there's no plot to begin with, it's hard for anything to
detract from it. <g>
: Neural typing is
: much more pleasant to tune your brain to, unless your attitude
: precludes it.
The above is yet another misconception brought to you from cyber-schmuck
central. "Neural typing" is done by everyone (though I admit you might be
the exception) as the brain must be engaged in order for *any* gross motor
skill to function.
: It's interesting to note Dougie's story on his website
: (which I glanced through).
No doubt you couldn't bring yourself to actually *read* it. That would
require critical faculties and actual *work*.
<snip>
Dr. Moze
In article <59uis8$qhd$1...@proxy01.iafrica.com>
sch...@aztec.co.za (Schwann) writes:
> Hi Doc,
>
> I sell ideas, not grammar.
^^^^
????
> Kalahari Crash is from my Book. If you actually read the content
> you'll see that the event is reported as speculation.
Yes, but journalistic writing is the foremost genre in which strict
adherence to proper grammar and good form are *not* optional. If you
want to write in a reporting style, there is simply no excuse for bad
grammar.
> While it is
> laudable that you get paid for lecturing in different parts of the
> world it is NOT what I want to do, thanks.
I actually get paid for developing theories and simulations, and
discussing/writing up the results. (And technical writing is another
field in which clear, concise form is a necessity!) The travel and
lectures are just a perk. $^)
>
> I was in commerce for 25 years before I began writing though it is
> something I always dreamed of doing. 6th Grade is somewhere in my
> distant past and impediments like punctuation marks do not render my
> writing unreadable, nor do they detract from my plot. Neural typing is
> much more pleasant to tune your brain to, unless your attitude
> precludes it.
"Neural typing"? This reeks of "outcome-based education"! While there
are certain authors who can use unconventional prose forms effectively,
claims of enlightened writing styles et al. are no excuse for lack of
grammatical skills or sheer laziness. Coherent writing will always be
more effective (and more difficult to achieve) than 'freestyling.'
(Can you tell I've visited your website? I cut my teeth on 'new wave'
s-f and all that; your disjointed prose doesn't cut it. Sorry. But do
let us know what the publisher says.)
--- Dr. Moze <DrM...@pressroom.com>
Whose thesis advisor was a stickler for good writing and gave him many
pages filled with red-inked comments to whip him into shape.
Douglas Lathrop
'Jesse Garon' <gri...@primenet.com> wrote:
: Douglas Lathrop <lat...@primenet.com> writes:
: >Schwann <sch...@aztec.co.za> wrote:
: >: It's interesting to note Dougie's story on his website
: >: (which I glanced through). 9 Chapters. Sheesh. All that hard work for
: >: nothing. Like Jesse said, who's gonna publishIish him if he's already
: >: halfway there. The writings not that bad, but he reads like a John
: >: Shirley wannabee.
: >More like a Tom Wolfe wannabe, but thanks for playing.
: Actually, I said something more like "who's going to buy the book if they
: can get the fucking thing for free on the web?" A couple chapters as a
: teaser is a rather good idea.
Especially when the last chapter you give them concludes with two of the
main characters having sex on a bridge over the L.A. River.
Btw, does anyone else get the feeling that Schwanky is having a wee bit of
trouble telling me and 'Jesse' apart? Granted, I once jokingly described
myself as the demented sock-puppet on 'Jesse's' right hand, but our style
are completely different. His wit sparkles with a cold brilliance, like a
diamond - mine radiates warmth, like a glowing piece of coal in a barbecue
pit. Only an utter nimrod would have trouble telling us apart, so why
does Schwann . . .
Oh. Never mind.
Besides that, 'Jesse' has put an infinitely greater number of almost-naked
pictures of himself on the net than I have.
Schwann
chr...@indra.com (Chris H Kostanick) wrote:
>sch...@aztec.co.za (Schwann) writes:
>>The Mirage F11GX etc..
>Couple of problems here. The only fighter that will go Mach 3 is
>the MIG-23. The problem is that you have to replace the engines
>after EACH flight at that speed. The only jet powered aircraft that will
>go MACH 3.5 or better is the SR-71, an unarmed recon aircraft. (I'm
>including the YF-12 variants as they are the same basic craft.) You
>couldn't get a Mirage going that fast if you strapped it to a space
>shuttle Solid Rocket Booster. The particle beam weapon (not a maser)
>won't be fielded until 2005 at the vary earliest, and I'm betting more
>like 2010. (The will be in a Mach 6 Ramjet powered RPV)
>This "F11GX" is a fantasy craft you are describing, not something
>that SA had in 1988 or 1989. I don't have the Janes's for those years
>handy, but I bet all you had in that time frame was some subsonic '50s
>deltawing Mirages not much better than the Me-262.
Yeh, you got part of it right. It's a fantasy aircraft. But it *is*
based on the Mirage F series which the SAAF has used for quite a
while. Certainly in 1988. The Mirage 111 series was used successfully
against the Mig23. We also used older aircraft such as the Buccaneer
and the even older Vampire but nothing so crude as a 262. Though I
always loved the shape of it:) I remember building a model of a Me 262
as a kid. I have a flight sim called 'Secret Weapons Of The Luftwaffe'
where you can fly one. You can also fly a Flying Fortress, a Mustang
and other interesting aircraft. Recently we've had a local chap who
bought an old twin engined RAF jet complete with roundels and has
flown it over Cape Town much to the surprise of some of the residents
who freaked out. It's real LOUD, but they don't make em like that
anymore and it's reminiscent of the 262. I'll post the name of the
aircraft when I remember.
We had an airshow recently and I photographed a retired Mirage 111C.
She still looks mean. The SAAF just retired it's fleet of Harvard
training aircraft. They are looking to sell some 200 (or more) of em.
What about it Chris. You got any spare dolla?
blue skies,
schwann
Sabsy
Hey Schwannie
Still at it?
Sabelo
Schwann <sch...@aztec.co.za> wrote in article
<5a924h$pcs$1...@proxy01.iafrica.com>...
Schwann
Schwann
drm...@pressroom.com (Dr. Moze) wrote:
>In article <59uis8$qhd$1...@proxy01.iafrica.com>
>sch...@aztec.co.za (Schwann) writes:
>> Hi Doc,
>>
>> I sell ideas, not grammar.
> ^^^^
> ????
Why the question marks? It's like plain enough, I'm sure.
>> Kalahari Crash is from my Book. If you actually read the content
>> you'll see that the event is reported as speculation.
>Yes, but journalistic writing is the foremost genre in which strict
>adherence to proper grammar and good form are *not* optional. If you
>want to write in a reporting style, there is simply no excuse for bad
>grammar.
So what exactly about the grammar don't you like?
>> While it is
>> laudable that you get paid for lecturing in different parts of the
>> world it is NOT what I want to do, thanks.
>I actually get paid for developing theories and simulations, and
>discussing/writing up the results. (And technical writing is another
>field in which clear, concise form is a necessity!) The travel and
>lectures are just a perk. $^)
>>
Look Doc, I don't wanna drag you down but technical writing is a *bit*
different from what I'm doin - know what I'm sayin? You post some
sci-fi and we'll argue about concise in *that* context. But I hear
what you're saying.
>> I was in commerce for 25 years before I began writing though it is
>> something I always dreamed of doing. 6th Grade is somewhere in my
>> distant past and impediments like punctuation marks do not render my
>> writing unreadable, nor do they detract from my plot. Neural typing is
>> much more pleasant to tune your brain to, unless your attitude
>> precludes it.
>"Neural typing"? This reeks of "outcome-based education"! While there
>are certain authors who can use unconventional prose forms effectively,
>claims of enlightened writing styles et al. are no excuse for lack of
>grammatical skills or sheer laziness. Coherent writing will always be
>more effective (and more difficult to achieve) than 'freestyling.'
again, your remarks are not perceived as being related to what i'm
doing..sheer laziness? "outcome based education"? etc, i mean who is
confusing whom here? :) and with what are you confusing me?
I agree that freestyling is all very well but a PLOT..
yes, mine is interesting for it involves an old San legend and an
unexplained painting in the middle of the desert of a European lady
dressed in a skintight white leggings and top dated more than 20,000
years ago.
There was no known association between the Northern Territory of
Namibia at that time and the only people who approximated that dress
code were, uhm, Cretans? Atlanteans?
Remember it *is* in the middle of the desert, and San artists always
depicted what they saw..
>(Can you tell I've visited your website? I cut my teeth on 'new wave'
>s-f and all that; your disjointed prose doesn't cut it. Sorry. But do
>let us know what the publisher says.)
ok, thanks for trying. I'll mail you something that hasn't been edited
for Internet - if you're interested and won't repost it. John Shirley
recently mailed me a pre-publishing flighter of his new book 'Silicon
Embrace' in which he has also joined legend, fact and fiction.
It was excellent.
An interesting time now exists. Many of our old legends are being shed
and new ones attempt to graft themselves to us. Subliminal stuff. The
thing to do is check yourself while you have no skin. Then you can
really see who you are.
sleep faster, we need the pillows,
best,
schwann
Chris H Kostanick
sch...@aztec.co.za (Schwann) writes:
>Yeh, you got part of it right. It's a fantasy aircraft. But it *is*
>based on the Mirage F series which the SAAF has used for quite a
>while. Certainly in 1988. The Mirage 111 series was used successfully
>against the Mig23. We also used older aircraft such as the Buccaneer
>and the even older Vampire but nothing so crude as a 262. Though I
>always loved the shape of it:) I remember building a model of a Me 262
>as a kid. I have a flight sim called 'Secret Weapons Of The Luftwaffe'
>where you can fly one. You can also fly a Flying Fortress, a Mustang
>and other interesting aircraft. Recently we've had a local chap who
>bought an old twin engined RAF jet complete with roundels and has
>flown it over Cape Town much to the surprise of some of the residents
>who freaked out. It's real LOUD, but they don't make em like that
>anymore and it's reminiscent of the 262. I'll post the name of the
>aircraft when I remember.
>We had an airshow recently and I photographed a retired Mirage 111C.
>She still looks mean. The SAAF just retired it's fleet of Harvard
>training aircraft. They are looking to sell some 200 (or more) of em.
>What about it Chris. You got any spare dolla?
If I had that kind of spare money, I'd go after an F-4 Phantom II.
There are hundreds of 'em in long term storage down in Arizona.
Chris Kostanick
Jet Car Neutopian - Grays Don't Use Reheat
Schwann
"Sabsy" <sa...@aol.com> wrote:
>Hey Schwannie
>Still at it?
>Sabelo
Kunjani mybra..
whassup?
when ya comin home?
best for '97..
schwann
be...@cais3.cais.com
Schwann (sch...@aztec.co.za) wrote:
: drm...@pressroom.com (Dr. Moze) wrote:
: >In article <59uis8$qhd$1...@proxy01.iafrica.com>
: >sch...@aztec.co.za (Schwann) writes:
: >> Hi Doc,
: >>
: >> I sell ideas, not grammar.
: > ^^^^
: > ????
: Why the question marks? It's like plain enough, I'm sure.
How much money have you made from your sales? Is that clearer?
: >> While it is
: >> laudable that you get paid for lecturing in different parts of the
: >> world it is NOT what I want to do, thanks.
: >I actually get paid for developing theories and simulations, and
: >discussing/writing up the results. (And technical writing is another
: >field in which clear, concise form is a necessity!) The travel and
: >lectures are just a perk. $^)
: >>
: Look Doc, I don't wanna drag you down but technical writing is a *bit*
: different from what I'm doin - know what I'm sayin? You post some
: sci-fi and we'll argue about concise in *that* context. But I hear
: what you're saying.
That's it. I'm draggin' Gharlane in here. Don't say you weren't warned.
What I've dealt you will seem like kisses from a girl, once Gharlane is
done with you.
be...@cais3.cais.com
Douglas Lathrop (lat...@primenet.com) wrote:
: : >Schwann <sch...@aztec.co.za> wrote:
: : >: It's interesting to note Dougie's story on his website
: : >: (which I glanced through). 9 Chapters. Sheesh. All that hard work for
: : >: nothing. Like Jesse said, who's gonna publishIish him if he's already
: : >: halfway there. The writings not that bad, but he reads like a John
: : >: Shirley wannabee.
: : >More like a Tom Wolfe wannabe, but thanks for playing.
: : Actually, I said something more like "who's going to buy the book if they
: : can get the fucking thing for free on the web?" A couple chapters as a
: : teaser is a rather good idea.
: Especially when the last chapter you give them concludes with two of the
: main characters having sex on a bridge over the L.A. River.
This has me waiting in breathless anticipation for your book to be
published. Any chance, that one can by it ahead of time?
: Btw, does anyone else get the feeling that Schwanky is having a wee bit of
: trouble telling me and 'Jesse' apart?
Yon cyber-schmuck has demonstrated his singular ability to miss the
glaringly obvious, so it's entirely possible he thinks that you and
"Jesse" are one and the same. Hmm, I admit the idea has intriguing
possibilities.
: Granted, I once jokingly described
: myself as the demented sock-puppet on 'Jesse's' right hand, but our style
: are completely different. His wit sparkles with a cold brilliance, like a
: diamond - mine radiates warmth, like a glowing piece of coal in a barbecue
: pit. Only an utter nimrod would have trouble telling us apart, so why
: does Schwann . . .
: Oh. Never mind.
Right.
: Besides that, 'Jesse' has put an infinitely greater number of almost-naked
: pictures of himself on the net than I have.
I'm still waiting to see yours. I took the one of "Jesse" posting to
USENET, so that doesn't have nearly the mystique as seeing a picture of
*you* posting to USENET without any pants.
-- Beth (I really liked what I read, and was sincere about paying honest-
to-god money for a complete copy)
be...@cais3.cais.com
Chris H Kostanick (chr...@indra.com) wrote:
: be...@cais3.cais.com (TheW...@Endor.com) writes:
: >That's it. I'm draggin' Gharlane in here. Don't say you weren't warned.
: >What I've dealt you will seem like kisses from a girl, once Gharlane is
: >done with you.
: I thought Eddorians just blasted you into the next plane of
: existance with a mental bolt and then got on with the important
: business of taking over the Universe.
Well yeah, but they have to do *something* in their spare time.
: What fun will that be to
: watch?
Megatons. Unfortunately the cad has turned down my invitation to visit
Neutopia and teach Schwann the lesson he so richly deserves and seems
unable to grasp from MTNs. However, I plan on wearing him down, as I know
he has a thing for blonds with their own bondage gear.
--
Beth (don't tell him I'm a red-head)
Chris H Kostanick
be...@cais3.cais.com (TheW...@Endor.com) writes:
>That's it. I'm draggin' Gharlane in here. Don't say you weren't warned.
>What I've dealt you will seem like kisses from a girl, once Gharlane is
>done with you.
I thought Eddorians just blasted you into the next plane of
existance with a mental bolt and then got on with the important
business of taking over the Universe. What fun will that be to
watch?
Chris Kostanick
Jet Car Neutopian - Part Time Galactic Patrol Member
D.P. Roberts
Douglas Lathrop wrote:
> Granted, I once jokingly described myself as the demented sock-puppet
> on 'Jesse's' right hand, but our style are completely different.
Goddam, I love the image. Has anyone else noticed that artists'
self-portraits are generally their most inspired work? Want to have
Lathrop's words embroidered on silk, framed, and hung on the wall.
Demented sock-puppet. Outrageously on-target.
> His wit sparkles with a cold brilliance, like a diamond - mine radiates warmth,
> like a glowing piece of coal in a barbecue pit. Only an utter nimrod would have trouble telling us apart, so why does Schwann . . .
Because Schwann is too busy congratulating himself for his many
sentences containing both subjects `and` verbs?
[snip]
> Besides that, 'Jesse' has put an infinitely greater number of almost-naked
> pictures of himself on the net than I have.
Dammit, Douglas, they don't keep binaries in Deja News. How the hell
are we gonna get them? Huh? J'ya ever thinka that? How?
D.P. Roberts
Schwann
chr...@indra.com (Chris H Kostanick) wrote:
>sch...@aztec.co.za (Schwann) writes:
>>We had an airshow recently and I photographed a retired Mirage 111C.
>>She still looks mean. The SAAF just retired it's fleet of Harvard
>>training aircraft. They are looking to sell some 200 (or more) of em.
>>What about it Chris. You got any spare dolla?
>If I had that kind of spare money, I'd go after an F-4 Phantom II.
>There are hundreds of 'em in long term storage down in Arizona.
Yeh but there's nothing like flying a propellor aircraft. If you
offered me the choice between a P-38 and a F-4 I'd choose the
P-38.
you look great in your P-38 Dad ..... Michael Franks
Douglas Lathrop
TheW...@Endor.com <be...@cais3.cais.com> wrote:
: Douglas Lathrop (lat...@primenet.com) wrote:
: : Besides that, 'Jesse' has put an infinitely greater number of almost-naked
: : pictures of himself on the net than I have.
: I'm still waiting to see yours. I took the one of "Jesse" posting to
: USENET, so that doesn't have nearly the mystique as seeing a picture of
: *you* posting to USENET without any pants.
Unfortunately, I don't own a laptop, although I guess a strategically
placed IBM keyboard would serve the same purpose.
Also, I need someone to *take* the picture. My D.I.Y. philosophy stops
short of boudoir photos. Rest assured, however, that images of me in my
melanin-impaired glory will be available just as soon as someone
volunteers to hold my . . . camera.
Paul Gold
Schwann wrote:
>
> chr...@indra.com (Chris H Kostanick) wrote:
>
> >sch...@aztec.co.za (Schwann) writes:
>
>
> >Couple of problems here. The only fighter that will go Mach 3 is
> >the MIG-23. The problem is that you have to replace the engines
> >after EACH flight at that speed. The only jet powered aircraft that will
> >go MACH 3.5 or better is the SR-71, an unarmed recon aircraft. (I'm
> >including the YF-12 variants as they are the same basic craft.) You
> >couldn't get a Mirage going that fast if you strapped it to a space
> >shuttle Solid Rocket Booster. The particle beam weapon (not a maser)
> >won't be fielded until 2005 at the vary earliest, and I'm betting more
> >like 2010. (The will be in a Mach 6 Ramjet powered RPV)
>
> >This "F11GX" is a fantasy craft you are describing, not something
> >that SA had in 1988 or 1989. I don't have the Janes's for those years
> >handy, but I bet all you had in that time frame was some subsonic '50s
> >deltawing Mirages not much better than the Me-262.
>
> based on the Mirage F series which the SAAF has used for quite a
> while. Certainly in 1988. The Mirage 111 series was used successfully
> against the Mig23. We also used older aircraft such as the Buccaneer
> and the even older Vampire but nothing so crude as a 262. Though I
> always loved the shape of it:) I remember building a model of a Me 262
> as a kid. I have a flight sim called 'Secret Weapons Of The Luftwaffe'
> where you can fly one. You can also fly a Flying Fortress, a Mustang
> and other interesting aircraft. Recently we've had a local chap who
> bought an old twin engined RAF jet complete with roundels and has
> flown it over Cape Town much to the surprise of some of the residents
> who freaked out. It's real LOUD, but they don't make em like that
> anymore and it's reminiscent of the 262. I'll post the name of the
> aircraft when I remember.
>
> She still looks mean. The SAAF just retired it's fleet of Harvard
> training aircraft. They are looking to sell some 200 (or more) of em.
> What about it Chris. You got any spare dolla?
>
>
> schwann
I thought it was the MiG-25 that was Mach 3+ but needed engine changes
if used for a long fast flight
The 'local' chap has bought a couple of hunters and at least one
Canberra that were ex RAF/RN stock
Paul Gold
Schwann
Paul Gold <pa...@hpwinh85.uksr.hp.com> wrote:
>>Paul Gold
Hi Paul,
So it's a Hunter that he flew over Rondebosch and Claremont?
It definitely wasn't a vampire that I saw which is unmistakable with
it's double back booms and single engine. This was a twin engined so
it must have been the Hunter. Did they fly the Mig 25 in 1988 over
Angola? Not really sure. Maybe someone out there can tell us for sure?
best,
schwann
Paul Gold
Schwann wrote:
>
> I thought it was the MiG-25 that was Mach 3+ but needed engine changes
> if used for a long fast flight
>
> >>The 'local' chap has bought a couple of hunters and at least one
> >>Canberra that were ex RAF/RN stock
>
> >>Paul Gold
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> So it's a Hunter that he flew over Rondebosch and Claremont?
> It definitely wasn't a vampire that I saw which is unmistakable with
> it's double back booms and single engine. This was a twin engined so
> it must have been the Hunter. Did they fly the Mig 25 in 1988 over
> Angola? Not really sure. Maybe someone out there can tell us for sure?
>
> best,
>
> schwann
Hi Schwann
I'll dig out the article I have on the ex RAF aircraft and give you some
more details, dont have it here at work, were the engines under the
wings or in fuselage? If under the wings it will be the Canberra if two
intakes at roots and one tail pipe it was a Hunter, I think he may have
also just bought a Buccaneer but dont quote me on that
Paul Gold
Schwann
Paul Gold <pa...@hpwinh85.uksr.hp.com> wrote:
Schwann wrote:
The 'local' chap has bought a couple of hunters and at least one
Canberra that were ex RAF/RN stock
Hi Paul,
So it's a Hunter that he flew over Rondebosch and Claremont?
It definitely wasn't a vampire that I saw which is unmistakable with
it's double back booms and single engine. This was a twin engined so
it must have been the Hunter. Did they fly the Mig 25 in 1988 over
Angola? Not really sure. Maybe someone out there can tell us for
sure?
best,
schwann
>Hi Schwann
>I'll dig out the article I have on the ex RAF aircraft and give you some
>more details, dont have it here at work, were the engines under the
>wings or in fuselage? If under the wings it will be the Canberra if two
>intakes at roots and one tail pipe it was a Hunter, I think he may have
>also just bought a Buccaneer but dont quote me on that
>Paul Gold
Hi Paul,
It was definitely the Canberra that I saw. Man it was cool.
It flew quite slowly making a grand whooshing noise.
It was like being in a war zone, nah, only kidding.
She's a handsome flyer.
Many thanks for the info,
blue skies,
schwann
JT
In article <5au8lt$76e$1...@proxy01.iafrica.com>,
sch...@aztec.co.za (Schwann) wrote:
>Paul Gold <pa...@hpwinh85.uksr.hp.com> wrote:
>
>Schwann wrote:
>
>The 'local' chap has bought a couple of hunters and at least one
>Canberra that were ex RAF/RN stock
>
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> So it's a Hunter that he flew over Rondebosch and Claremont?
> It definitely wasn't a vampire that I saw which is unmistakable with
> it's double back booms and single engine. This was a twin engined so
> it must have been the Hunter. Did they fly the Mig 25 in 1988 over
> Angola? Not really sure. Maybe someone out there can tell us for
>sure?
>
> best,
>
> schwann
>
>>Hi Schwann
>
>>I'll dig out the article I have on the ex RAF aircraft and give you some
>>more details, dont have it here at work, were the engines under the
>>wings or in fuselage? If under the wings it will be the Canberra if two
>>intakes at roots and one tail pipe it was a Hunter, I think he may have
>>also just bought a Buccaneer but dont quote me on that
>
>>Paul Gold
>
>Hi Paul,
>
>It was definitely the Canberra that I saw. Man it was cool.
>
twin engined jet fighter. Two engines one above the other, very powerful.
Schwann
pha...@op1.up.ac.za (JT) wrote:
>Paul Gold
Hi Paul,
Sheesh, I got to interview this guy.
Recently got offered a ride in a micro-light.
Haven't been up yet. But I'll take my vidcam if I do.
Anyone got any info on the above jets?
The Canberra must seat two. How about the others?
best,
schwann
Errol Back-Cunningham
In <5b0agt$gc4$1...@proxy01.iafrica.com> sch...@aztec.co.za (Schwann)
writes:
>pha...@op1.up.ac.za (JT) wrote:
>
>In article <5au8lt$76e$1...@proxy01.iafrica.com>,
> sch...@aztec.co.za (Schwann) wrote:
>Paul Gold <pa...@hpwinh85.uksr.hp.com> wrote:
>
>Schwann wrote:
>
>The 'local' chap has bought a couple of hunters and at least one
>Canberra that were ex RAF/RN stock
>
>
> Hi Paul,
>
>So it's a Hunter that he flew over Rondebosch and Claremont?
> It definitely wasn't a vampire that I saw which is unmistakable with
> it's double back booms and single engine. This was a twin engined so
> it must have been the Hunter. Did they fly the Mig 25 in 1988 over
> Angola? Not really sure. Maybe someone out there can tell us for
Believe they did - will check. Soviets brought in a lot of equipment
that hadn't been seen in the west and used Angolsh as their proving
ground for some stuff. I think some of their Speznats (sp?) guys and
also DDR special service guys used to cruise around in there too.
Errol
Jan Dry
Schwann wrote:
> Did they fly the Mig 25 in 1988 over
> Angola? Not really sure. Maybe someone out there can tell us for
> sure?
>
MIG 23 were used during the battles in Southern Angola. They lost a few
to Stingers. I don't think the MIG 25 saw any action there.
Jan
Schwann
e...@ix.netcom.com(Errol Back-Cunningham) wrote:
>In <5b0agt$gc4$1...@proxy01.iafrica.com> sch...@aztec.co.za (Schwann)
>writes:
>>
>>pha...@op1.up.ac.za (JT) wrote:
>>
>>In article <5au8lt$76e$1...@proxy01.iafrica.com>,
>> sch...@aztec.co.za (Schwann) wrote:
>>Paul Gold <pa...@hpwinh85.uksr.hp.com> wrote:
>>
>>Schwann wrote:
>>
>>The 'local' chap has bought a couple of hunters and at least one
>>Canberra that were ex RAF/RN stock
>>
>>
>> Hi Paul,
>>
>>So it's a Hunter that he flew over Rondebosch and Claremont?
>> It definitely wasn't a vampire that I saw which is unmistakable with
>> it's double back booms and single engine. This was a twin engined so
>> it must have been the Hunter. Did they fly the Mig 25 in 1988 over
>> Angola? Not really sure. Maybe someone out there can tell us for
> Believe they did - will check. Soviets brought in a lot of equipment
> that hadn't been seen in the west and used Angolsh as their proving
> ground for some stuff. I think some of their Speznats (sp?) guys and
> also DDR special service guys used to cruise around in there too.
> Errol
Cool, i await your post with interest,
best,
schwann
Schwann
Jan Dry <sed...@persetel.co.za> wrote:
>Schwann wrote:
>> Did they fly the Mig 25 in 1988 over
>> Angola? Not really sure. Maybe someone out there can tell us for
>> sure?
>>
>MIG 23 were used during the battles in Southern Angola. They lost a few
>to Stingers. I don't think the MIG 25 saw any action there.
>Jan
Many thanks for the input. Someone earlier was suggesting that the Mig
25 had seen covert action but it was news to me also. But you can't
rule it out.
tc
s
Bacchus
On Thu, 09 Jan 1997 14:49:33 GMT, sch...@aztec.co.za (Schwann) wrote:
>Jan Dry <sed...@persetel.co.za> wrote:
>
>>Schwann wrote:
>
>>> Did they fly the Mig 25 in 1988 over
>>> Angola? Not really sure. Maybe someone out there can tell us for
>>> sure?
>>>
Judging from the performance capabilities, I doubt that the Mig 25
would have served in Angola. I don't know for sure, but I can't see
any use for it there.
Bacchus
Schwann
Yossarian Pilgrim <tw...@bullion.co.za> wrote:
>Jan Dry wrote:
>>
>> Schwann wrote:
>>
>> > Did they fly the Mig 25 in 1988 over
>> > Angola? Not really sure. Maybe someone out there can tell us for
>> > sure?
>> >
>>
>> MIG 23 were used during the battles in Southern Angola. They lost a few
>> to Stingers. I don't think the MIG 25 saw any action there.
>>
>> Jan
>I was on a Hercules C-130 on its way to Potchefstroom after finishing my
>operational stint in mid December 1988 - the day when a Mig 23 entered
>Namibian airspace and crashed south of Oshivelo(?)
>Yoss
Hmm. Mid 1988. The Kalahari Crash was purported to be in 1988.
You ever hear any rumours in the SADF about it?
best,
schwann
Yossarian Pilgrim
Schwann
bac...@itis.com (Bacchus) wrote:
>On Thu, 09 Jan 1997 14:49:33 GMT, sch...@aztec.co.za (Schwann) wrote:
>>Jan Dry <sed...@persetel.co.za> wrote:
>>
>>>Schwann wrote:
>>
>>>> Did they fly the Mig 25 in 1988 over
>>>> Angola? Not really sure. Maybe someone out there can tell us for
>>>> sure?
>>>>
>Judging from the performance capabilities, I doubt that the Mig 25
>would have served in Angola. I don't know for sure, but I can't see
>any use for it there.
>Bacchus
Why not?
It shoots down other aeroplanes, doesn't it?
:)