Does Illusion have any Laws?

[David Dalton]

Sarah McLachlan's latest CD is entitled Laws of Illusion.

But does illusion have any laws?

--
David Dalton dal...@nfld.com http://www.nfld.com/~dalton (home page)
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/nf.html Newfoundland&Labrador Travel & Music
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/dtales.html Salmon on the Thorns (mystic page)
"Here I go again...back into the flame" (Sarah McLachlan)

[i2i]

"David Dalton" <dal...@nfld.com> wrote in message
news:dalton-32C55F....@news.eternal-september.org...

> Sarah McLachlan's latest CD is entitled Laws of Illusion.
>
> But does illusion have any laws?

sure. delusion has to have
laws of visual, auditory and
emotional representations
otherwise you couldn't
even perceive it.

[David Dalton]

In article <dalton-32C55F....@news.eternal-september.org>,

David Dalton <dal...@nfld.com> wrote:

> Sarah McLachlan's latest CD is entitled Laws of Illusion.
>
> But does illusion have any laws?

My own experience of illusion as part of my bipolar
disorder has fallen in to two type:

1. a delusion I am experiencing without realizing that
it is a delusion, for example my first matchmaking
period from the summer of 1997 to the spring of 1999

2. reality distorting around me, for example in my
waxing gibbous moon trials of 1992--1994
and to a lesser extent my two early waxing
moon trials of 1995. (My waxing gibbous moon
trials of 1996 and 1997 had elements of both
1 and 2.)

Now since I again started abstaining from alcohol
1--9 days before full moon I have not had any more
waxing gibbous moon trials. (Since mid-July, 1997,
and even though I have sometimes consumed a lot
of alcohol at other moon phases I have had no
alcohol-triggered or alcohol-worsened episodes.)

And since I went back on olanzapine (in addition to
my main drug lithium) I have had fewer delusions.
But I know you may say that my comparison of myself
to past figures including Taliesin and Jesus on my
Salmon on the Thorns web page is a delusion. However
it is based on a comparison of my cycle and experiences
with those of the past figures; it is not just me
saying out of the blue that I am the next such figure.

good night,

[David Dalton]

In article <dalton-EC65AF....@news.eternal-september.org>,

cycles

> with those of the past figures; it is not just me
> saying out of the blue that I am the next such figure.

However my comparison of myself to past figures is
slipping in the area of the extent of my low years.
I think most past figures including the Buddha had
seven years of low years but I am now at more than
16.55 years. I think this is because my suffering
has been reduced by my meds, so I have had to go
longer to compensate.

[{:-])))]

David wrote:

>> > ... snips ...

>> > But does illusion have any laws?
>>
>> My own experience of illusion as part of my bipolar
>> disorder has fallen in to two type:
>>
>> 1. a delusion I am experiencing without realizing that
>> it is a delusion,

I think there may be another type of law
or laws of sorts. Something to do with culture.

How, in the so-called Western world-view,
it is against the law to think of oneself
and identify oneself with being a or the Buddha,
incarnation of Jesus, God or other sacred identities.

In a way, what is termed delusion by those who do not
appreciate themselves as being avatars, is itself a
form of delusion.

Which brings up a host of quest-
ions pertaining to shared reality, customs, realizations,
mystical experiences, and such knots.

>However my comparison of myself to past figures is
>slipping in the area of the extent of my low years.
>I think most past figures including the Buddha had
>seven years of low years but I am now at more than
>16.55 years. I think this is because my suffering
>has been reduced by my meds, so I have had to go
>longer to compensate.

A problem exists in terms of functionality for many.

When someone realizes his or her own Self, and identifies
that Self with being God, but fails to appreciate a Way
in which all selves are avatars as well, well,
that can be a problem.

If one's brain chemistry is such that functioning
as an automaton in a social structure is impossible,
and one wishes to be a functional unit, meds may help
a so-called individual to find a niche.

>good night,

The illusion that we are distinct, separate, individuals
tends to be pervasive and compulsive, and goes
quite unnoticed by many people most of the time.

Perceptions of unity are tending to be more common
as we evolve into a planet of one mind, and have a
so-called planetary mind in many ways.

Transcending nation-states of mind is rare these days.
Transcending tendencies to identify with any particular
state of mind or being, tends to be rare as well.

There is said to be an emptiness, a core,
which may be of a special non-spacial non-temporal
nature, shared by all, a centre of balance so to speak,
seen in the eyes, of the pupils, behind the lens.

In the end, one may decide
which is right, yellow, or white, by Moon's light,
and which, some say, is an illusion.

- and good day

[avatar]

{:-]))) wrote:
> David wrote:
>
>>> > ... snips ...
>>> > But does illusion have any laws?
>>>
>>> My own experience of illusion as part of my bipolar
>>> disorder has fallen in to two type:
>>>
>>> 1. a delusion I am experiencing without realizing that
>>> it is a delusion,
>
>I think there may be another type of law
>or laws of sorts. Something to do with culture.

Yes. Some are written in stone.

>How, in the so-called Western world-view,
>it is against the law to think of oneself
>and identify oneself with being a or the Buddha,
>incarnation of Jesus, God or other sacred identities.

While, at the same time, those that know
know better than to say.

>In a way, what is termed delusion by those who do not
>appreciate themselves as being avatars, is itself a
>form of delusion.

And, at the same time, those that say,
in a way, may at that time be, not knowing.

For why would the left hand
say to the right hand?

That would be rather silly, eh?

>Which brings up a host of quest-
>ions pertaining to shared reality, customs, realizations,
>mystical experiences, and such knots.

Each avatar is an avatar.
And, while in that particularized form, is capable
of doing whatever that form is able to do.

Jesus did not do just anything.
He followed the Script to the letter of the law.

As do all avatars.
Each is a limited manifestation of Reality.

Knowing and feeling that one is, in reality,
Buddha, Jesus, God and all else, is, in reality,
less of a delusion than thinking ones'elf is a
separate individual.

To think, however, that one is what one is not,
in the particular form in which one is, well, that is
where the error, the off-target, missing the bull
sigh, sin, so to speak, rests.

A turning about, a returning, a re-
pent about face of One's face is then in order.

>>However my comparison of myself to past figures is
>>slipping in the area of the extent of my low years.

We all have our cycles, probably.

>>I think most past figures including the Buddha had
>>seven years of low years but I am now at more than
>>16.55 years. I think this is because my suffering
>>has been reduced by my meds, so I have had to go
>>longer to compensate.
>
>A problem exists in terms of functionality for many.
>
>When someone realizes his or her own Self, and identifies
>that Self with being God, but fails to appreciate a Way
>in which all selves are avatars as well, well,
>that can be a problem.

Not to mention,
when so-called others
don't appreciate the Self
as being more real than any
enculturated individualized self.

>If one's brain chemistry is such that functioning
>as an automaton in a social structure is impossible,
>and one wishes to be a functional unit, meds may help
>a so-called individual to find a niche.
>
>>good night,

Chet.

>The illusion that we are distinct, separate, individuals
>tends to be pervasive and compulsive, and goes
>quite unnoticed by many people most of the time.

And tends to be ignored
when Self to Self contact is on the table.

>Perceptions of unity are tending to be more common
>as we evolve into a planet of one mind, and have a
>so-called planetary mind in many ways.

Universal Mind
might be outside the realm of science
and the scientism that holds the current era
in its grasping after what it deems to be truth,
laws, and other such narrow-bands of binding.

>Transcending nation-states of mind is rare these days.
>Transcending tendencies to identify with any particular
>state of mind or being, tends to be rare as well.

Viewing views as views
tends to be among my favorite view.

>There is said to be an emptiness, a core,
>which may be of a special non-spacial non-temporal
>nature, shared by all, a centre of balance so to speak,
>seen in the eyes, of the pupils, behind the lens.

Dark within d'ark.

>In the end, one may decide
>which is right, yellow, or white, by Moon's light,
>and which, some say, is an illusion.

To speak is to chop.
To unchop can be a key.

>- and good day

too David

[David Dalton]

In article <dalton-EC65AF....@news.eternal-september.org>,

David Dalton <dal...@nfld.com> wrote:

> In article <dalton-32C55F....@news.eternal-september.org>,
> David Dalton <dal...@nfld.com> wrote:
>
> > Sarah McLachlan's latest CD is entitled Laws of Illusion.
> >
> > But does illusion have any laws?
>
> My own experience of illusion as part of my bipolar
> disorder has fallen in to two type:
>
> 1. a delusion I am experiencing without realizing that
> it is a delusion, for example my first matchmaking
> period from the summer of 1997 to the spring of 1999
>
> 2. reality distorting around me, for example in my
> waxing gibbous moon trials of 1992--1994
> and to a lesser extent my two early waxing
> moon trials of 1995. (My waxing gibbous moon
> trials of 1996 and 1997 had elements of both
> 1 and 2.)

But by reality distorting around me do I mean I had
hallucinations (voices and/or visions) during the
waxing gibbous moon trials? No, it was more my
perception of reality that changed. I was still
hearing and seeing reality but it was as if reality
had turned sour, had turned against me. The waxing
gibbous moon trials I think were described by Taliesin
as Arianrhod's prison, by Krishna as an attack of a
poisoned-nippled demon, and by Buddha as attack by Mara
(the tempter, but I also think the illusionist). The
waxing gibbous moon trials of 1992--1994 were mixed
episodes (low mood but racing thoughts) with an element
of psychosis. The ones of 1996--1997 were all that
again with an element of dysphoria (irritability).

[cycle rider]

David wrote:

>> > But does illusion have any laws?

Perhaps semantics are at play.

>> My own experience of illusion as part of my bipolar
>> disorder has fallen in to two type:
>>
>> 1. a delusion I am experiencing without realizing that
>> it is a delusion, for example my first matchmaking
>> period from the summer of 1997 to the spring of 1999

If one believes very strongly
something about how reality really is
then there is a good chance one is deluded.

For instance, the little dots which appear as words
on a so-called blank screen in front of one's eyes,
could be said to be real, or an illusion, or a flicker
ringing of and in one's imagination.

To think things are a certain way, to believe
with one's whole heart in that particular way, is
prolly more a fashion of thought than anything else.

Keys on which my fingers tap are smooth, to me.

In reality, they are much less than smooth.
If reality is presumed to be, roughly speaking,
full of space, between all things.

>> 2. reality distorting around me, for example in my
>> waxing gibbous moon trials of 1992--1994
>> and to a lesser extent my two early waxing
>> moon trials of 1995. (My waxing gibbous moon
>> trials of 1996 and 1997 had elements of both
>> 1 and 2.)
>
>But by reality distorting around me do I mean I had
>hallucinations (voices and/or visions) during the
>waxing gibbous moon trials? No, it was more my
>perception of reality that changed.

Sometimes reality turns inside out.
If you see you are your outsides, you see, you are.

If you see how you are a historical figure, you see,
you are that historical figure. And if you see how you
will be that identity in the future, you see, you will be.

Everyone is. Was. And will be. All in all.

Most folks just stay within their singular small self
and take their lives one life at a time if not one day
at a time or one eternal now unfolding in time.

> I was still
>hearing and seeing reality but it was as if reality
>had turned sour, had turned against me.

It may be a law
that for sweets to be sweet
there needs to be sour.

At times life is a grand
piano playing its own tunes.

At times life is a small potato
full of crunchy nickles and dimes
changing all the times times times.

> The waxing
>gibbous moon trials I think were described by Taliesin
>as Arianrhod's prison, by Krishna as an attack of a
>poisoned-nippled demon, and by Buddha as attack by Mara
>(the tempter, but I also think the illusionist).

Jesus wasn't real happy in the garden.
Though he was slain before the foundation
and was the stone to begin with on which law
became flesh, so to speak, he spoke as if he
had forgotten, and, perhaps, he had.

It is a normal delusion to forget
or never to have remembered. It's a usual
illusion to think of all things as separate
from all other things.

Not all tickets are e-tickets.

Some are for parking. Some for going
too fast or too slow or doing or making
some other fancy move along the way
when one's culture gets in one's way.

> The
>waxing gibbous moon trials of 1992--1994 were mixed
>episodes (low mood but racing thoughts) with an element
>of psychosis. The ones of 1996--1997 were all that
>again with an element of dysphoria (irritability).

Pathology might not be a law.
I'm not really a lawyer.
Nor a judge, per se.

Suffering can definitely be a pain.
Clinging might have something to do with it.

The brain is a strange electro-chemical deal,
handing out cards to jokers who run wild
as if the playing field was level.

There maybe ought to be laws
governing the operations of things.

There could be said to be a principle
involved in how things go, of Dao,
of round and round.

Of ups and downs.

To surf the changes,
that'd be nice. And, after a wave
one would, naturally, paddle back out,
beyond the breakers, to wait, for
another ride, perhaps.

[David Dalton]

In article <5kad3898jf8gf2mvn...@4ax.com>,

cycle rider <being@.... --- -- .> wrote:

> It may be a law
> that for sweets to be sweet
> there needs to be sour.

Yes, and note that 5.5 lunar months after onset of each
of my three waxing gibbous moon trials in 1993--1994
I experienced a waning crescent high. The waxing
gibbous moon trials I liken to the descent to the
underworld (of shamanism) and the waning crescent highs
I relate to ascent to the otherworld (of shamanism again).

> To surf the changes,
> that'd be nice. And, after a wave
> one would, naturally, paddle back out,
> beyond the breakers, to wait, for
> another ride, perhaps.

Yes, ideally after I come out of the low years I will
have sustained creativity and few mental health
problems. Taliesin (Gwion Bach) in his poems says
that "Gwion has kept the cauldron Steadily boiling...".
That implies that after coming out of the low years
he has attained a flowing muse. But he came out
of the low years seven score lunar months (11 years
and four lunar months) after his first waning crescent
high and I hope to come out of the low years 21 years
after my first waning crescent high, but it could
be that I will have to wait for 22 (two sunspot
cycles instead of Gwion's one).

[David Dalton]

In article <dalton-D7DB87....@news.eternal-september.org>,

David Dalton <dal...@nfld.com> wrote:

> In article <5kad3898jf8gf2mvn...@4ax.com>,
> cycle rider <being@.... --- -- .> wrote:
>
> > It may be a law
> > that for sweets to be sweet
> > there needs to be sour.
>
> Yes, and note that 5.5 lunar months after onset of each
> of my three waxing gibbous moon trials in 1993--1994
> I experienced a waning crescent high. The waxing
> gibbous moon trials I liken to the descent to the
> underworld (of shamanism) and the waning crescent highs
> I relate to ascent to the otherworld (of shamanism again).

But you could also say that the low years are a
descent to the underworld and that release from
the low years (or attainment of awakening/enlightenment)
will be the ascent to the otherworld. However I
like the quoted interpretation better than the
one in this paragraph.

[linuxgal]

{:-]))) wrote:

> How, in the so-called Western world-view,
> it is against the law to think of oneself
> and identify oneself with being a or the Buddha,
> incarnation of Jesus, God or other sacred identities.

Unless one is The One, a Democratic President of indeterminant hue who
wishes to serve God, but only in in advisory capacity.

> When someone realizes his or her own Self, and identifies
> that Self with being God, but fails to appreciate a Way
> in which all selves are avatars as well, well,
> that can be a problem.

Taoists are okay with that, as long as you remain the God of your own
country, and you make sure your dogs don't bark too loud and disturb the
Gods in your neighboring countries.

> The illusion that we are distinct, separate, individuals
> tends to be pervasive and compulsive, and goes
> quite unnoticed by many people most of the time.

This illusion is quite strong in the case of running out of gas in the
Mohave Desert.

--
I suffer from Mallzheimer's disease. I go to the mall and forget where I
parked my car.

[roadhog]

linuxgal wrote:
> {:-]))) wrote:
>
>> How, in the so-called Western world-view,
>> it is against the law to think of oneself

>> and identify oneself with being a or the ...
>> ...
> ...

>
>> The illusion that we are distinct, separate, individuals
>> tends to be pervasive and compulsive, and goes
>> quite unnoticed by many people most of the time.
>
>This illusion is quite strong in the case of running out of gas in the
>Mohave Desert.

If you think you ran out of gas
it is possible you think you are a car.

Gas is a gas, usually.
I don't think any particular gas
would be considered to be The Gas.

However, when one thinks of oneself
as being The Gas, as a local vortex or vertex,
deepending up on the inflection points pointed out,
one may be in for a bumpy ride.

In some other land
perhaps it is not against the law
to consider oneself as being The Universe
as it is found in one's own here and one's own
now, so to speak. Moving along that line of reason,
if one thinks one was, or will be, some particular
aspect of The Universe at some other time
or some other place, that too, may not
necessarily be a violation of the law
of that far land's-cape.

[cycle rider]

David wrote:
> David wrote:
>
>> ... and note that 5.5 lunar months after onset of each

>> of my three waxing gibbous moon trials in 1993--1994
>> I experienced a waning crescent high. The waxing
>> gibbous moon trials I liken to the descent to the
>> underworld (of shamanism) and the waning crescent highs
>> I relate to ascent to the otherworld (of shamanism again).
>
>But you could also say that the low years are a
>descent to the underworld and that release from
>the low years (or attainment of awakening/enlightenment)
>will be the ascent to the otherworld. However I
>like the quoted interpretation better than the
>one in this paragraph.

My cycles used to involve peaks
followed all too often by pits.

After a spell of unrecalled duration,
plus reading about how it is advised to
know the yang but keep to the yin, I was
able to throttle back when approaching a
peak of energy, and hence avoid the pit.

At times I've wondered if there was an addiction
to the highs and, if so, were the lows worth
the price of the ticket.

Believing there was control possible,
moderating the highs to the point of there
being virtually none, and no lows either, it occured
to me that life without ups and downs is less of
being alive than is life with peaks and valleys.

I've heard that some bi-polar brains
are not satisfied without the highs and lows,
just as an audiophile might not appreciate CDs.

If total control was possible,
via psycho-therapy plus chemistry,
would you opt for any particular amplitude
and duration of your waves?

Would you fine tune your spheres?

- just curious

[David Dalton]

In article <qstf38t2q9602npso...@4ax.com>,

cycle rider <being@.... --- -- .> wrote:

Well, I haven't had a waning crescent high since the
one of late August/early September 1994 and I am not
sure if my low years will end with a high. But the
last few waning crescent highs that I did have I
learned to wind them down by new moon or else they
would turn sour after new moon.

If I could choose a tuned state it would be similar
to my mild high of Jan. 5--9, 1994 when I felt
creative and connected but not blown away. That
high was probably a 3 on a scale of -10 to +10
where -2 to +2 is normal range. I guess I would
settle for a +2.

But in the past years my problems have been more
with low creativity and delusion though there has
been some low mood at times. While I am on
lithium and olanzapine and avoiding alcohol 1--9
days before full moon (i.e. right now) the delusions
are minimized. But when I come out of the low
years I plan to reduce, with the help of a
psychiatrist, the olanzapine to 5 mg/day (from 10)
but will stay on the lithium or another mood
stabilizer.