Coupland,Douglas
Susan Irvin
worse things to read....but as for Coupland's work, I preferred
Shampoo Planet to his other stuff. I still haven't finished
Life After God...and I can't see myself picking it up again
to do so.
--
Sue Irvin | "You don't care for your crew and introduce them
bu...@rahul.net | to the spectre of death at every opportunity"
-- Neelix, STV: The Cloud
Kelly T. Conlon
>I like this group. I'm going on 25 and I found myself agreeing more and more
>with the things people are saying here. I'm back in school (that
>should be in ALL Berlitz phrasebooks) and I would be interested in talking
>about Douglas Coupland. They're forcing me to read his book Generation X and I
>don't like it much.
Gen-X as required reading?????
Oh dear.
KTC (doesn't mind Coupland's novels, really, but would stop short of
requiring college students to read it. Jeeze, what *is* happening to the
Canon these days?)
--
Kelly T Conlon / con...@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca / Bureaucracy is as wrong as
cancer, a turning away from the human evolutionary direction of infinite
potentials and differentiation and independent spontaneous action, to
the complete parasitism of a virus / William S. Burroughs, "Naked Lunch".
Terra Goodnight
: They're forcing you to read Generation X? I guess there's
: worse things to read....but as for Coupland's work, I preferred
: Shampoo Planet to his other stuff. I still haven't finished
Frankly, a day after having finished Shampoo Planet, I'd say skip
him altogether. Microserfs was cool, tho.
and why is it that all x-er novels must start out with the first scene at
LAX?
Terra
Douglas Lathrop
<cric...@hiss.synapse.net> writes:
>I like this group. I'm going on 25 and I found myself agreeing more and more
>with the things people are saying here. I'm back in school (that
>should be in ALL Berlitz phrasebooks) and I would be interested in talking
>about Douglas Coupland. They're forcing me to read his book Generation X and I
>don't like it much.
I am Douglas Coupland. How may I be of service?
D O U G L A S P. L A T H R O P
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASGX Poster Child, Dionysus Emeritus, Monster Truck Neutopia Spokes Person
Visit Stately PAPER CUT MANOR! http://www.primenet.com/~lathrop/index.html
Kevin Haskel Rubin
>about Douglas Coupland. They're forcing me to read his book Generation X and I
>you know of a source of criticism I can draw on for him or hopefully
>Generation X, I would appreciate it.
Why are you forced to read "Generation X"? What kind of a class woudl that
be for?
I read it last year, and I didn't really like it much. My roommate like the
name of it, but he never read it, claiming that reading is a decadent habit
(this from a tv junkie like him.)
-kevin
--
gn...@teleport.com Kevin Rubin
V-X
>Now, in light of all this can any of you still maintain that Picasso was
>reall an artist, that his stuff was really great, and that it is deep and
>meaningful?
Yes.
Picasso was being surprisingly honest in his self-assessment
>(and was severely guilty later in his life and quite depressed from what I
>have read
He had many things to be depressed about, one of the side effects of which is
usually the false sensation that one is a complete fraud, no matter what one's
particular calling or skill level.
I suffer from depression, myself, and can attest to this. At what I do, I'm
pretty good. I'm not being egotistical in the slightest, just honest. But I
spend a good part of the year, sometimes, unable to work because I think I'm
awful.
>(Actually, as I recall, shortly before his death Rothko made a similar
>confession, but I can't seem to find the text and i don't remember exactly
>where I read it. Pollack on the other hand seems to have been able to
>keep his mouth shut more effectively.)
Again, Rothko was in a state of severe depression that ended with his suicide.
Anything he said in that state should be regarded with this in mind.
V-X can draw like nobody's business. Resume and examples available at
http://www.teleport.com/~vx
Home of the Unofficial WWW/FTP Jack Chick Archive!
Stupid Internet...
Douglas Lathrop
Well, I guess you didn't care for mine, then. <shrug>
Doug (Because the Theme Building is cool, that's why)
--
Jesse Garon
Terra blabbed:
> : and why is it that all x-er novels must start out with the first scene at
> : LAX?
> Well, I guess you didn't care for mine, then. <shrug>
> Doug (Because the Theme Building is cool, that's why)
Good answer, good answer!
I'd like to point out that my work-in-progress that people have
seen bits and pieces of does NOT start at LAX, though the protagonist
gets there by the third chapter, if I ever write it. On the other
hand, the work-in-progress that I have NOT shown anybody yet, JOHNNY
GODARD, does commence with the eponymous antihero arriving at our
international airtravel hub. (and no, it's not THAT J. Godard...)
_______
http://www.primenet.com/~grifter/cinema.html
MAXIMUM CINEMA -- bricks are our currency!
Brian K. Yoder
of this notion by posting a couple of exerpts from an interview with
Picasso by Giovanni Papini (translated by John Garth, a member of the Royal
Society of the Arts). Picasso says:
"From the moment that art ceases to be food that feeds the best minds, the
artist can use his talents to perform all the tricks of the intellectual
charlatan. Most people no longer expect to receive consolation and exaltation
from art."
"The 'refined', the rich, the professional 'do-nothings' the distillers of
quiessence desire only the peculiar, the sensational, the eccentric, the
scandalous in today's art. I myself, since the advent of Cubism have fed
these fellows what they wanted and satisfied these critics with all the
ridiculous ideas that have passed through my mind."
"The less they understood them, the more they admired me. Through amusing
myselfwith all these absurd farces, I became celebrated, and very rapidly.
For a painter, celebrity means sales and consequent affluence. Today, as
you know, I am celebrated, I am rich."
"But when I am alone, I do not have the effrontery to consider myself an artist
at all, not in the grand old meaning of the word: Giotto, Titian,
Rembrandt, Goya were great painters. I am only a public clown - a mountebank."
"I have understood my time and have exploited the imbecility, the vanity,
the greed of my contemporaries. It is a bitter confession, this
confession of mine, more painful than it might seem. But at least and at last
it does have the merit of being honest."
Now, in light of all this can any of you still maintain that Picasso was
reall an artist, that his stuff was really great, and that it is deep and
meaningful? Picasso was being surprisingly honest in his self-assessment
(and was severely guilty later in his life and quite depressed from what I
have read), moreso than any of the other modernists I have read, but is there
any doubt that the others were any different?
(Actually, as I recall, shortly before his death Rothko made a similar
confession, but I can't seem to find the text and i don't remember exactly
where I read it. Pollack on the other hand seems to have been able to
keep his mouth shut more effectively.)
--Brian
--
+------------------+---------------------------------------------------------+
| Brian K. Yoder | "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human |
| byo...@netcom.com| freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the |
| US Networx, Inc. | creed of slaves." -- William Pitt |
+------------------+---------------------------------------------------------+
Confusion Incarnate
>Hey !
>
>I like this group. I'm going on 25 and I found myself agreeing more and more
>with the things people are saying here. I'm back in school (that
>should be in ALL Berlitz phrasebooks) and I would be interested in talking
>don't like it much. If you want to talk about your feelings about Coupland or
>you know of a source of criticism I can draw on for him or hopefully
>Generation X, I would appreciate it.
Shampoo Planet beats Generation X by a long shot. GenX sure as hell has its
moments, though. Read it for the story and not the social significance that's
been assigned to it and you'll enjoy it more. (Hint: no, those characters
aren't supposed to be like you. They're like themselves.)
.atlemar I showed this card to Kiwi before mailing it.
james v. geluso He agreed with me, feeling like he wanted to be
st...@jetson.uh.edu in a glass house on the southern tip of New Zealand's
houston.grand South Island, with nothing in between himself and
rapids.washington Antarctica.
Confusion Incarnate
>Gen-X as required reading?????
>Oh dear.
>
>KTC (doesn't mind Coupland's novels, really, but would stop short of
>requiring college students to read it. Jeeze, what *is* happening to the
>Canon these days?)
I saw it on the shelves of the bookstore here not long ago. It was required
for a Modern American Literature class. I kinda doubt that *every* student at
the school is being required to read it...
Confusion Incarnate
>Susan Irvin (bu...@rahul.net) wrote:
>: They're forcing you to read Generation X? I guess there's
>: worse things to read....but as for Coupland's work, I preferred
>: Shampoo Planet to his other stuff. I still haven't finished
>
>Frankly, a day after having finished Shampoo Planet, I'd say skip
>him altogether. Microserfs was cool, tho.
You didn't like Shampoo Planet? *gasp* Chris, you can do better.
Is Microserfs already out? Or are you just referring to the article?
>and why is it that all x-er novels must start out with the first scene at
>LAX?
And all Xer short stories take place at O'Hare.
T.Carter Ross
>
>Gen-X as required reading?????
>Oh dear.
>
>KTC (doesn't mind Coupland's novels, really, but would stop short of
>requiring college students to read it. Jeeze, what *is* happening to
>the Canon these days?)
Ah, I remember fondly back to the days of '87, when _Less Than Zero_ was
required reading in my high school creative writing class....
T.Carter Ross, who, even though he's never been to Los Angeles, is still
afraid to merge on freeways.
Terra Goodnight
now...
: > : and why is it that all x-er novels must start out with the first scene at
: > : LAX?
:
: > Well, I guess you didn't care for mine, then. <shrug>
It just felt like deja-vu (again).
: > Doug (Because the Theme Building is cool, that's why)
so's the Griffith Observatory, so let's set a novel opening there...
I mean, if the arrival or departure at LAX is somehow important
by its being a transitional moment for the character, then I'd accept it,
like in Less Than Zero. But in Shapoo Planet, it seemed utterly
unnecessary and well, frankly, similar to Less Than Zero. By the time I
get to yours, it seems like "oh, ok, this is familiar" (but admittedly I
didn't read the rest so perhaps it was incredibly significant and necessary).
I'm not commenting on the value of the scene in your novel, just the
feeling that I'd read it before.
: I'd like to point out that my work-in-progress that people have
: seen bits and pieces of does NOT start at LAX, though the protagonist
: gets there by the third chapter, if I ever write it. On the other
Oh, well that's different. Especially if a novel takes place in L.A, I
mean, I' don't know about you people, but I'm at LAX at least once a
month, if not more, and it usually is significant, in that someone
important is coming or going, or I'm coming or going...
Speaking of generational novels, am I the only one who liked Brightness
Falls? Maybe it's that we all come from different backgrounds and
experiences, but Brightness Falls felt to me like it could actually
happen, and the people I felt like "yeah, I know people like this", where
Shampoo Planet _*seemed*_ fictional. It never for a moment felt like a
real group of people, just utterly exaggerated charicatures.
Terra
Terra Goodnight
: te...@universe.digex.net (Terra Goodnight) writes...
: >
: >Frankly, a day after having finished Shampoo Planet, I'd say skip
: >him altogether. Microserfs was cool, tho.
: You didn't like Shampoo Planet? *gasp* Chris, you can do better.
Hey! Sorry, mr. requisite angst, that I don't fit your generational mold
but I didn't like it so nyeaaaah. ;)
: Is Microserfs already out? Or are you just referring to the article?
just the article. i think he should stick to essay-length until he has
an interesting story to tell.
: >and why is it that all x-er novels must start out with the first scene at
: >LAX?
Brian? Ian? Chris? ya'll gonna buck this trend?
: And all Xer short stories take place at O'Hare.
heh. or Seattle
Terra
Kelly T. Conlon
>con...@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca (Kelly T. Conlon) writes...
>>Gen-X as required reading?????
>>Oh dear.
>I saw it on the shelves of the bookstore here not long ago. It was required
>for a Modern American Literature class.
The really ironic thing is that A) Coupland is Canadian and B) much of
the novel was written while DC was living in Montreal.
KTC (doesn't expect DC to make it to the "Can Lit" shelves at the Mac
bookstore anytime soon, and he isn't sure why).
Jennifer Basil
: Susan Irvin (bu...@rahul.net) wrote:
: : They're forcing you to read Generation X? I guess there's
: : worse things to read....but as for Coupland's work, I preferred
: : Shampoo Planet to his other stuff. I still haven't finished
: Frankly, a day after having finished Shampoo Planet, I'd say skip
: him altogether. Microserfs was cool, tho.
I hated Shampoo Planet. Aside from the 'protagonists' initial girlfriend,
I didn't like *anybody* in the novel. Same goes for Banana Yoshimoto's
second novel ["NP"].
Tough to keep reading when that's the case.
I kept thinking 'Why on EARTH are you doing THAT?' Perplexing.
Jenny
: and why is it that all x-er novels must start out with the first scene at
: LAX?
Ah...it's a transcendenal metaphor for the underlying weave of angst
in all our Xer psychological tapestries and.....nah, I don't know either.
Jenny
: Terra
--
Jennifer Basil (ba...@bio.bu.edu) Has angst, will travel.
Oh life is a glorious cycle of song,
a medley of extemporanea;
and love is a thing that can never go wrong..
...and I am Marie of Romania!
...Dorothy Parker
coates
: For those who doubt that Picasso was a fraud, I thought I would disabuse them
: of this notion by posting a couple of exerpts from an interview with
Why should we believe anything said by a fraud?
Don't believe him -- he was just pandering, once again, to what he knew
people wanted to hear -- how they'd been duped.
An *artist* is the last person we should consult about the quality or
merit of their work. They spend their time amidst paint fumes, for god's
sake. You think that leaves them capable of analytical thought?
--
john coates
Confusion Incarnate
>Confusion Incarnate <st...@rosie.uh.edu> wrote:
>>con...@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca (Kelly T. Conlon) writes...
>
>>>Gen-X as required reading?????
>>>Oh dear.
>
>>I saw it on the shelves of the bookstore here not long ago. It was required
>>for a Modern American Literature class.
>
>The really ironic thing is that A) Coupland is Canadian and B) much of
>the novel was written while DC was living in Montreal.
Well, yeah. I, personally, usually use the term "American" (except when
referring to government/politics) as a reference to the geographic region of
Anglo-America, which is the U.S. and Canada. (Yes, I know the Quebecois would
object, but real live geographers defined it, so lay off me.) Especially
since, in terms of culture and especially pop culture, there's not a whole lot
of difference.
>KTC (doesn't expect DC to make it to the "Can Lit" shelves at the Mac
>bookstore anytime soon, and he isn't sure why).
Taking a complete and uninformed guess as to the nature of "Canadian Lit" as
you're using it here, because it doesn't make an effort to indulge in
Canadiana, of course. I saw a documentary about the romance novel industry
once, and a publisher-person was explaining to a writer-wannabe what had to the
criteria for an "American Romance" series entry was: it took place in the
United States or its territories. Nothing to do with style, or content, or
theme-- just backdrop location. I'm guessing that "Can Lit" up there is
defined similarly to that "American" definition, as a national thing rather
than a cultural or thematic thing. (But then, I'm guessing, so I'm probably
wrong.)
Douglas Lathrop
>'Jesse Garon' (gri...@primenet.com) wrote:
>: lat...@primenet.com (Douglas Lathrop) wrote:
>: Terra blabbed:
> ^^^^^^^gee, i see everyone's fiddling with their attribute toys
>now...
>: > : and why is it that all x-er novels must start out with the first scene at
>: > : LAX?
>:
>: > Well, I guess you didn't care for mine, then. <shrug>
>It just felt like deja-vu (again).
>: > Doug (Because the Theme Building is cool, that's why)
>so's the Griffith Observatory, so let's set a novel opening there...
I'm saving that for later on in the story. So maybe you *will* like it, then.
;)
Doug (who believes that if "Jesse" directs the film version it'll do for the
Griffith Observatory what _Rebel Without a Cause_ did for it forty years ago)
Timothy Burke
Yoder) wrote:
interesting late-in-life Picasso comments
>
> "I have understood my time and have exploited the imbecility, the vanity,
> the greed of my contemporaries. It is a bitter confession, this
> confession of mine, more painful than it might seem. But at least and at last
> it does have the merit of being honest."
>
> Now, in light of all this can any of you still maintain that Picasso was
> reall an artist, that his stuff was really great, and that it is deep and
> meaningful? Picasso was being surprisingly honest in his self-assessment
> (and was severely guilty later in his life and quite depressed from what I
> have read), moreso than any of the other modernists I have read, but is there
> any doubt that the others were any different?
>
I agree that this quote is most interesting, and revealing.
However, I think you may be walking down a road you don't necessarily want
to follow. Picasso is hardly the first artist to remark bitterly on his
own work, and even to condemn himself...a careful investigation of art
history will uncover many others, including some of the "Old Masters".
Moreover, even the most conservative art critic is unlikely to contend
that the artist's interpretation of the meaning or motivation of his/her
own work is the sole determining factor of its meaning to audiences, or
its "real" meaning or significance. I'm not one of those who believes that
the author's intentions or character are INsignificant to the
interpretation of art, but neither are they all-determining. Many artists
have created works that superceded their own intention in creating those
works.
The way I read Picasso's comment recalls my early admonition to you that
you should consider the modern canon from the perspective developed by
Robert Hughes in -The Shock of the New-: that much modern art has
self-consciously sought to offend the bourgeoisie so greatly that the
bourgeoisie would stop valuing "art" and thus release the artist from his
collaborative role in the construction of middle-class identity. As I
noted, Hughes' great insight is that the bourgeoisie has outmaneuvered
artists by refusing to rise to the bait, by continuing to value "art",
whatever it may become.
This strikes me as a much more interesting take on 20th Century art
history than your rather simplistic dismissal of it all. In a way, by
crankily declaring it all a pack of cards, you're actually playing the
game just the way Picasso wanted you to play it. He wanted people like you
to reject his work; that would have validated it as an authentic artistic
acheivement. The great joke on him is that most folks didn't react that
way.
coates
Some excellent stuff, which I have deleted the better to fawn.
--
john coates For Human beauty knows it not: nor can Mercy find it!
Marco Anglesio
They do tend to the didactic (somewhat like this group :), so be warned.
JMHO
marco
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Marco Anglesio, Materials and Metallurgical Engineering, Queen's U |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| <3m...@jeff-lab.queensu.ca> | Caught between the bright lights/ and |
| <3m...@qlink.queensu.ca> | the far unlit unknown/ nowhere is the |
| <angl...@unixg.ubc.ca> | dreamer/ or the misfit so alone |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jesse Garon
>
> 'Jesse Garon' (gri...@primenet.com) wrote:
> : lat...@primenet.com (Douglas Lathrop) wrote:
> : > Doug (Because the Theme Building is cool, that's why)
> so's the Griffith Observatory, so let's set a novel opening there...
I have a hard time envisioning anything that takes place at the
Griffith Observatory anymore. It IS a genuinely cool place, but
in the same way that Monument Valley means John Ford to many people,
the Griffith Observatory is always going to mean REBEL WITHOUT A CAUSE
to me, and that's after seeing at least a dozen other films with scenes
taking place there.
> I mean, if the arrival or departure at LAX is somehow important
> by its being a transitional moment for the character, then I'd accept it,
> like in Less Than Zero. But in Shapoo Planet, it seemed utterly
> unnecessary and well, frankly, similar to Less Than Zero. By the time I
> get to yours, it seems like "oh, ok, this is familiar" (but admittedly I
> didn't read the rest so perhaps it was incredibly significant and necessary).
> I'm not commenting on the value of the scene in your novel, just the
> feeling that I'd read it before.
Having read all of Doug's novel (and don't forget, chapter two is
accessible through http://www.primenet.com/~grifter/fiction.html ),
the arrival is significant.
> : I'd like to point out that my work-in-progress that people have
> : seen bits and pieces of does NOT start at LAX, though the protagonist
> : gets there by the third chapter, if I ever write it. On the other
>
> Oh, well that's different. Especially if a novel takes place in L.A, I
> mean, I' don't know about you people, but I'm at LAX at least once a
> month, if not more, and it usually is significant, in that someone
> important is coming or going, or I'm coming or going...
Right, and let's face it, people just don't come in on the train to
Union Station as much as they used to.
> Speaking of generational novels, am I the only one who liked Brightness
> Falls? Maybe it's that we all come from different backgrounds and
> experiences, but Brightness Falls felt to me like it could actually
> happen, and the people I felt like "yeah, I know people like this", where
> Shampoo Planet _*seemed*_ fictional. It never for a moment felt like a
> real group of people, just utterly exaggerated charicatures.
I'm sorry to say that I STILL haven't read past the first chapter of
Brightness Falls, despite owning a copy, and despite it being one of
the first things Terra recommended to me the first day that we hung
out together. But the caricaturial side of Copeland is something with
which I can concur, although I find it slightly less pronounced in
LIFE AFTER GOD and the original MICROSERFS piece (the novel, btw, is
scheduled for June). I'm not sure if it's a problem in and of itself:
Vonnegut, among others, always struck me as a caricaturist in his style
as well, without detracting from his enjoyability or significance. But
I am waiting for the combination of caricature and realism from Copeland
that, say, Joseph Heller arrived at in CATCH-22.
_____________
"Jesse Garon" home page: http://www.primenet.com/~grifter/
BEATRICE WWW: http://www.primenet.com/~grifter/beatrice.html
MAXIMUM CINEMA: http://www.primenet.com/~grifter/cinema.html
INTERNATIONAL POP OVERTHROW: http://www.primenet.com/~grifter/ipo.html
I am the God damnedest mass of tact known to the human race
Jesse Garon
>
> In article <3jctus$f...@news3.digex.net> te...@universe.digex.net (Terra Goodnight) writes:
> >: lat...@primenet.com (Douglas Lathrop) wrote:
> >: > Doug (Because the Theme Building is cool, that's why)
>
> >so's the Griffith Observatory, so let's set a novel opening there...
>
> I'm saving that for later on in the story. So maybe you *will* like it, then.
> ;)
> Doug (who believes that if "Jesse" directs the film version it'll do for the
> Griffith Observatory what _Rebel Without a Cause_ did for it forty years ago)
You know, this is honestly something that I never considered while I
was reading ANARCHY RULES, partly because it was the first time that
I was reading something a friend of mine had wrote. But hey, you get
the thing sold, and I bet we could convince one of the smaller film
producers interested for less than a million. No stars, or stars
working dirt cheap, but I'll give it my best John Woo shot behind the
camera -- and by that I don't mean that I'll load it up with buckshot
and spurting arteries.
David Librik
>Shampoo Planet beats Generation X by a long shot. GenX sure as hell has its
>moments, though. Read it for the story and not the social significance that's
>been assigned to it and you'll enjoy it more.
Read it for the marginal notes and definitions. The rest of the book consists
of manipulating characters into situations so they can illustrate those ideas.
The short stories in _Life After God_ are better literarily.
- David Librik
lib...@cs.Berkeley.edu
who had the definition of ANTI-SABBATICAL posted on his wall at work for months
Michael LeBlanc
Brian K. Yoder <byo...@netcom.com> wrote:
>
>Now, in light of all this can any of you still maintain that Picasso was
>reall an artist, that his stuff was really great, and that it is deep and
>meaningful?
A true egoist would not be that concerned with Picasso's estimation of his
own work, but would be more concerned with his OWN aesthetic interpretation.
To see a soi-disant Randian egoist blast Modernism for (allegedly) reducing
capital-A "Art" into mere product is, to say the least, rather amusing.
(Translation: "Brian, your Kant is showing")
Life has no "purpose" beyond its own perpetuation. Why should Art be
any different?
:Michael
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael LeBlanc / Attention FBI Grep Cats: I'm too busy trafficking
m...@netcom.com / in Scientology Trade Secrets to download any
WWW en route / Child Pornography.
Brent Dunn
In a previous article, te...@universe.digex.net (Terra Goodnight) says:
>: > : and why is it that all x-er novels must start out with the first scene at
>: > : LAX?
That's it! If/when I write my first novel, I am going to have it open at
LAX, just to bug Terra and other nay-sayers. All subsequent books will
either open at LAX or feature it prominently.
>: > Doug (Because the Theme Building is cool, that's why)
This could be our literary .sig. Can't you see it? Someday, in a
literature class:
"One unique characteristic of the literature of 'Generation X' writers is
their use of the LAX to promote the theme."
>so's the Griffith Observatory, so let's set a novel opening there...
Or, hey, why not a movie?
>: I'd like to point out that my work-in-progress that people have
>: seen bits and pieces of does NOT start at LAX, though the protagonist
>: gets there by the third chapter, if I ever write it. On the other
Jesse, Jesse, Jesse. We're going to have to do some editing, don't you
think? You do want to be part of the canon, don't you?
---Brent, only been to LAX once.
(Been to Griffith twice, but never inside.)
--
en...@cleveland.freenet.edu -or- bd...@west.cscwc.pima.edu
ObExpatriatism: I'M LEAVING THE COUNTRY! I'M LEAVING THE COUNTRY!
Currently on my reading list: _Hysterical Xers And The Folks Who Love
Them_, by Jubb Kennedy. (I figured I needed help.)
Don B Christie
: theme-- just backdrop location. I'm guessing that "Can Lit" up there is
: defined similarly to that "American" definition, as a national thing rather
: than a cultural or thematic thing. (But then, I'm guessing, so I'm probably
: wrong.)
Yeah... you're wrong -- but not entirely. A lot of canadian writing has
mega reference to the nation, and much of that to do with its
geography... but certainly not all. Ondaatje is one of the hottest
canadian writers of the past ten years or so, and all though some of his
stuff drops canadiana like seagull poop, much of it doesn't - "Coming
Through Slaughter" for example, is in New Orleans around the turn of
this century, "Running In the Family" is mostly in Sri Lanka.
But then again canadian literature is often very very canadian in
flavour. Dropping Coupland for american though would be exscusable only
really for "Gen-X". "Shampoo planet" takes the piss out of the states in
several spots, but in a way that is quite canadian and often missed.
Much of "Life After God" happens in Vancouver and knowing vancouver helps
in some ways for reading the book.
It's funny BTW to see so many conflicting opinions on Coupland's books.
I think that may be saying something for his work. I identified best
with Gen-x and Life after God, but I didn't totally hate Shampoo Planet.
His writing isn't yet "great", but he tells a good topical story that I
can often relate too, that's his charm. Some of his insights border on
great but the frankness and simplicity of his voices can make any insight
difficult to see. Once the reader recognises just how deep some of his
stuff is the simplicity that can make his work sometimes dull makes it
beautiful... he's really writing in an approachable voice... at times
that was my voice, or very close to it... so I didn't feel alienated from
the book but more that the book was part of my life.. a reflection of
it. I really think that's what his intention was in writing what he has
so far... but that was missed because the voices of his characters were
so passive despite what they were saying -- a lot of people just didn't
get it.
--
don
"but mom, Socrates played with HIS willy, why can't I"
Douglas Lathrop
: I have a hard time envisioning anything that takes place at the
: Griffith Observatory anymore. It IS a genuinely cool place, but
: in the same way that Monument Valley means John Ford to many people,
: the Griffith Observatory is always going to mean REBEL WITHOUT A CAUSE
: to me, and that's after seeing at least a dozen other films with scenes
: taking place there.
My problem is, since I became an MST3K fan, the Griffith Observatory no
longer means REBEL WITHOUT A CAUSE - it means WAR OF THE COLOSSAL BEAST.
Jesse Garon
>
> 'Jesse Garon' (gri...@primenet.com) wrote:
>
> : I have a hard time envisioning anything that takes place at the
> : Griffith Observatory anymore. It IS a genuinely cool place, but
> : in the same way that Monument Valley means John Ford to many people,
> : the Griffith Observatory is always going to mean REBEL WITHOUT A CAUSE
> : to me, and that's after seeing at least a dozen other films with scenes
> : taking place there.
>
> My problem is, since I became an MST3K fan, the Griffith Observatory no
> longer means REBEL WITHOUT A CAUSE - it means WAR OF THE COLOSSAL BEAST.
My problem is I can no longer watch channel 5 without a little voice
in the back of my head shouting, "Kit-lah!" at random moments. Thank
God there's hardly anything worth watching on 5 anyway.
Geenius at Wrok
> Terra Goodnight <te...@universe.digex.net> wrote:
>
> > and why is it that all x-er novels must start out with the first scene at > > LAX?
>
> _Generation X_ starts with Andy flying to YWG. (On a 747, no less. Heh.)
OK, this has been bugging me for some time. Of all the possible
three-letter airport codes in the world, why do Canada's bear less
resemblance to the actual name of the city and/or airport they're in than
any other airport codes in the world, and why do they all start with Y?
Trolls accepted, humorous trolls appreciated, but legitimate answers
preferred.
--
Keith Ammann is gee...@evansville.net
DNRC Lord High Geenius and Minister for Vegetability
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
"Follow me down the stairs, and don't hit your head on the piano."
-- tour guide, Frank Lloyd Wright Home
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Dig my home page: http://www.evansville.net/~geenius/geenius.html
Kelly T. Conlon
>Terra Goodnight <te...@universe.digex.net> wrote:
>> and why is it that all x-er novels must start out with the first scene at
>> LAX?
>_Generation X_ starts with Andy flying to YWG. (On a 747, no less. Heh.)
obanecdote: Comment made when landing in YWG last Xmas; "It's as flat as
I remember it being..."
*sigh*
KTC (will wax wistfully about the prairies at the drop of a dime)
collin richard
I like this group. I'm going on 25 and I found myself agreeing more and more
with the things people are saying here. I'm back in school (that
should be in ALL Berlitz phrasebooks) and I would be interested in talking
about Douglas Coupland. They're forcing me to read his book Generation X and I
don't like it much. If you want to talk about your feelings about Coupland or
you know of a source of criticism I can draw on for him or hopefully
Generation X, I would appreciate it.
You can e-mail me for quickest response, but I'll be using this group
regularly from now on anyway.
Confusion Incarnate
>Confusion Incarnate <st...@rosie.uh.edu> wrote:
>> Shampoo Planet beats Generation X by a long shot.
>
>
>I found the characters in Gen X much easier to identify with. Getting
>sick of the rat race and dropping out to live in the desert is something
>I can relate to. Joining Reagan Youth and owning 400 different brands of
>hair care products, I cannot relate to.
I don't relate to the Reagan Youth or the haircare bit, either. What I do
relate to is Tyler's drive and ambition, the determination to be something, to
do something. I felt it just last night was I was literally running laps
around campus and pulling a second all-nighter to cover the school elections
and loving every minute of it. It's the sense of optimism that says, "Yes, I
can get a secure job/be a journalist/get laid/whatever" and persists regardless
of significant setbacks. But at the same time, it's an optimism that is
driven, if not forced into existence, by a disconnected fear of being
insecure/flunking out of school/being rejected by the appropriate sex
forever/whatever. And Coupland's/Tyler's style of narration, with a heartfelt
pretentiousness (also present in Gen X, but much slower and less disconnected),
is something that I feel quite often when I'm running in high gear.
Besides, the fact that getting a good job is the happy ending makes it a far
more appropriate book, IMHO, to tout as symbolic of our woes when the Boomer
media insist we pick one book (and you know as well as I do that however
accurate "None of the above" is, it won't be accepted).
b. erin cole!
Confusion Incarnate <st...@rosie.uh.edu> wrote:
>Judging a book on how you relate to the characters seems to me to be sort of,
>well, (insert word that approaches "invalid" without so much absoluteness in
>connotation). How any particular person relates to the characters is highly
>subjective (not that literary quality isn't, but at least there are some
>generally agreed-upon notions there that don't depend on individual
>experience).
>
>Anyway, it seems as if most of the respondents (in fact, all but me, I think)
>preferred Gen X to SP. But I think that they've all been in the upper edge of
>our little cohort here, agewise... what do the rest of the '7xers think?
>Maybe it's a function of age... (and yes Chris, I do recall that you're a
>'7xer, but you might be some form of unnatural abberation).
>
>TimK? B. Erin? Christine? Bueller? (somebody go grab Maia!)
Keep in mind that it's been a *long* time since I've read any Coupland
books, so my memory may be kind of crusty about the topic.
Of all his books, I liked (don't hit me) Life After God the best. I think
thatmay have to do with my state of mind when I read it than anything
else. If we're talking about relating to characters, I related most to
the unnamed narrator in LAG and the female character in GX (Clare?
Clarice? I'm working straight off memory here...) Tyler in SP reminded me
a lot of a person I used to be - rather arrogant, kind of egotistic. But
anyone who's seen by bathroom knows I can relate to having 400 type of
paersonal care products! :) As far as writing goes, I felt that the
writing in GX was better. It seemed like it flowed better, and evoked
what he was trying to say more than the other two.
Cheerily,
B. Erin Cole
Visit Flake World: http://www.io.com/user/berin/index.html
Timothy Kordas
> c...@access3.digex.net (Chris Lehmann) writes...
> >I'll agree with Dave here. I read Gen X, with this feeling of "How did
> >Mr. Coupland get into my head." I think that book really summed up a lot
> >of the frustrations and, for lack of a better word, angst of a lot of
> >people. As a novel, it's not perfect, but as a book that put it's finger
> >on what was going in inside the brain of a lot of folks, it was dead on.
> >
> >Shampoo Planet is a much better piece of "literature" with a lot less to
> >say, in my opinion.
> I can't even remember if there was a specific criteria we were judging the
> books on. I kinda doubt it.
> Judging a book on how you relate to the characters seems to me to be sort of,
> well, (insert word that approaches "invalid" without so much absoluteness in
> connotation). How any particular person relates to the characters is highly
> subjective (not that literary quality isn't, but at least there are some
> generally agreed-upon notions there that don't depend on individual
> experience).
> TimK? B. Erin? Christine? Bueller?
judging a book by how its effect on you is certainly valid!
...identifying with the characters is just one way for an author to touch
the reader.
(maybe I should add that I'm not a fan of Coupland, I read _Generation X_
and haven't ever gotten around to _Shampoo Planet_ ... probably will,
someday...but I value the reading time I have...and have other books lying
around begging to be read [I probably will buy _Microserfs_...I liked the
piece in Wired]).
> (somebody go grab Maia!)
...leave her alone, she's almost done with school...
-Tim
(is back from Baltimore).
--
Timothy J. Kordas
http://bambi.eeap.cwru.edu/tjk/tim.html
etres...@cuppa.curtin.edu.au
Susan Irvin <bu...@rahul.net> writes:
>They're forcing you to read Generation X? I guess there's
>worse things to read....but as for Coupland's work, I preferred
>Shampoo Planet to his other stuff. I still haven't finished
>to do so.
>
I still haven't found Shampoo Planet anywhere.
I read an extract of it, and it sounded fantastic.
Heaps better than Gen-X.
Life After God was a whole different group of people.
And I don't agree with what Coupland said at the end,
I don't need God. (Atleast not the God he talks about, I
don't want to start a flame war here)
Troy Tresidder |"2+2=5-ism: Caving in to a target marketing
Perth, Western Australia.| strategy aimed at oneself
after holding out for a long period of time.
'Oh, all right, I'll buy your stupid cola. Now leave me alone.'"
Dictatrix Xtopia
>Anyway, it seems as if most of the respondents (in fact, all but me, I think)
>preferred Gen X to SP. But I think that they've all been in the upper edge of
>our little cohort here, agewise... what do the rest of the '7xers think?
>Maybe it's a function of age... (and yes Chris, I do recall that you're a
>'7xer, but you might be some form of unnatural abberation).
Hmm... maybe, maybe not.
I liked Shampoo Planet better than GenX. I don't quite identify with
either one. I identified more with the GenX characters, but SP has more
of a plot, and my attention wanders when Coupland has his characters
sitting around telling each other stories as he did in GenX and (to a
lesser extent) the Wired excerpt of Microserfs.
SP's characters (other than Tyler) were interesting but a bit
underdeveloped, IMO. As for Tyler, I didn't identify with him so much as
recognize him -- he reminded me all too much of my brother ('75 cabal)
and his arsenal of hair products.
-Leslie, '69 cabal, trying to blow Jim's theory ;)
--
Leslie Devlin * lde...@utpapa.ph.utexas.edu * capp...@mail.utexas.edu
America's No. 1 Glamorizer for all your desserts, salads and cereals.
"You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it
turns out that God hates all the same people you do." -- Anne Lamott
Confusion Incarnate
>Confusion Incarnate <st...@rosie.uh.edu> wrote:
>>Anyway, it seems as if most of the respondents (in fact, all but me, I think)
>>preferred Gen X to SP. But I think that they've all been in the upper edge of
>>our little cohort here, agewise... what do the rest of the '7xers think?
>>Maybe it's a function of age... (and yes Chris, I do recall that you're a
>>'7xer, but you might be some form of unnatural abberation).
>
>Hmm... maybe, maybe not.
>
>I liked Shampoo Planet better than GenX. I don't quite identify with
>either one. I identified more with the GenX characters, but SP has more
>of a plot, and my attention wanders when Coupland has his characters
>sitting around telling each other stories as he did in GenX and (to a
>lesser extent) the Wired excerpt of Microserfs.
>
>SP's characters (other than Tyler) were interesting but a bit
>underdeveloped, IMO. As for Tyler, I didn't identify with him so much as
>recognize him -- he reminded me all too much of my brother ('75 cabal)
>and his arsenal of hair products.
>
>-Leslie, '69 cabal, trying to blow Jim's theory ;)
Well, so far, no '7xer has held up my theory either. I'd prefer to get a
larger sample than the three (Chris, TimK, B. Erin) that have responded, but
until then, I'll just have to resign myself to being wrong.
I'm glad to see at least *somebody* else liked SP better than GenX though.
Ray Alderman
>Well, so far, no '7xer has held up my theory either. I'd prefer to get a
>larger sample than the three (Chris, TimK, B. Erin) that have responded, but
>until then, I'll just have to resign myself to being wrong.
>I'm glad to see at least *somebody* else liked SP better than GenX though.
Make that another one. I thought SP was far better than GenX.
Then again, I am a capitalist.
- Ray
------------------------------
Ray Alderman "Life is Unfair,
wray...@best.com The trick is to make it
unfair in your advantage."
Confusion Incarnate
>st...@elroy.uh.edu (Confusion Incarnate) wrote:
>
>
>>Well, so far, no '7xer has held up my theory either. I'd prefer to get a
>>larger sample than the three (Chris, TimK, B. Erin) that have responded, but
>>until then, I'll just have to resign myself to being wrong.
>
>>I'm glad to see at least *somebody* else liked SP better than GenX though.
>
>Make that another one. I thought SP was far better than GenX.
>
>Then again, I am a capitalist.
Aha! So I just need to bias the sample a little more...
Okay, um, Brain Yoder and Jonathan Priluck. Which was better, Shampoo Planet
or Generation X?
(the question is, which influences my research technique more: Lex's data
manipulation or the onslaught of surveys?)