The 14 Defining Characteristics Of Fascism
Harry Hope
The 14 Defining Characteristics Of Fascism
5-11-3
Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler
(Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and
several Latin American regimes.
Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make
constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other
paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on
clothing and in public displays.
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of
enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are
persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of
"need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of
torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of
prisoners, etc.
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The
people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to
eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or
religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists,
etc.
4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic
problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of
government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and
military service are glamorized.
5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be
almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional
gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality
are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian
of the family institution.
6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled
by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly
controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople
and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational
tool by the government over the masses.
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist
nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool
to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is
common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the
religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or
actions.
9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business
aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the
government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial
business/government relationship and power elite.
10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor
is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are
either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to
promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia.
It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored
or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly
attacked.
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the
police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people
are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil
liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police
force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always
are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each
other to government positions and use governmental power and authority
to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in
fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be
appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are
a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear
campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use
of legislation to control voting numbers or political district
boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also
typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
_____________________________________________________
Do they seem familiar? Of course they do.
Harry
Marie
Of course they sound familiar, Tokyo Harry - as in your typical
liberal drivel sounding familiar. And a sixth grader can turn that
type of left-wing horseshit right around on you lefty tyrants.
Hmm, being a socialist/leftist, and hating patriotism as I do, I think
I'll include that in my list as quintessentially fascistic. Aren't I
clever? Duh!
Gee, how about throwing in racism and lying about America being
racist, and therefore fascistic. Duh!
Oh, and yeh - we libbies are oh just so intellectual and these
fascistic brute hate their betters. Ah another good one. Duh!
Yeh, Harry, these sermons are very effective. Really tough to put this
swill together. How do you lefties do it? Could have fooled us!
Cordially, Marie
Jim Austin
> http://www.rense.com/general37/fascism.htm
>
> The 14 Defining Characteristics Of Fascism
>
> 5-11-3
>
> Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler
> (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and
> several Latin American regimes.
By which means Britt infers that only fascists oppose the liberal
agenda.
> Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:
>
> 1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make
> constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other
> paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on
> clothing and in public displays.
Britt concludes that patriotism per se is fascist.
> 2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of
> enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are
> persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of
> "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of
> torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of
> prisoners, etc.
Denial of human rights are characteristic of communist regimes as well
as fascist regimes. Yet the liberal contingent finds the latter much
more tolerable.
> 3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The
> people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to
> eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or
> religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists,
> etc.
Britt concludes that opposition to communism and terrorism as fascist.
Thus to avoid the stigma of fascism, Britt would have us adopt a
tolerant and indulgent attitude toward communists and terrorists.
> 4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic
> problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of
> government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and
> military service are glamorized.
Britt concludes that those not believing in unilateral disarmament are
fascist, that non-pacifists are fascists.
> 5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be
> almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional
> gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality
> are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian
> of the family institution.
True. Sexism has been a feature of Nazism and fascism. It's also a
feature of Islamic theocracies.
> 6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled
> by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly
> controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople
> and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
This is not unique to fascism. Communist countries nationalize the
media and do not permit any private news or opinion outlets.
When liberals are in power, they try to use the "fairness doctrine" to
muzzle critics of liberal policies. It was only the elimination of the
fairness doctrine that made conservative talk shows possible.
> 7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational
> tool by the government over the masses.
Not a unique feature of fascism. Communist countries are very much
obsessed with national security.
Britt, of course, tries to paint the fascist label on anyone not
completely indifferent to national security, who do not believe in
pacifism.
> 8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist
> nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool
> to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is
> common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the
> religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or
> actions.
That would be characteristic of theocracy.
This was definition not true of Nazi Germany. Adolf Hitler was an
atheist.
> 9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business
> aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the
> government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial
> business/government relationship and power elite.
No. Corporate power is controlled.
Communist countries nationalize all business firms. In fascist
countries like Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany, business owners retain
title and still get to occupy their spacious offices, but all major
economic decision are made by the state, by various agencies of the
government.
> 10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor
> is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are
> either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
Labor unions are eliminated in communist countries as well, and thus
is not a unique feature of fascism.
Britt tries to conclude that those not allowing labor unions to get
their way on all issues are fascist.
> 11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to
> promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia.
> It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored
> or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly
> attacked.
This is common in communist countries, Moslem theocracies and
dictatorships in general.
This is also becoming true in America as well. In America, the threat
comes from liberals and left wingers who conduct reigns of terror on
college campuses to purge them of politically incorrect thoughts.
> 12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the
> police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people
> are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil
> liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police
> force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
Dictatorships do clamp down on crime: fascist dictators, socialist
dictators, authoritarian dictators.
Britt concludes that in order to keep from being a fascist, one must
adopt
a tolerant and indulgent attitude toward punks, hoods, thugs and other
assorted lowlives.
> 13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always
> are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each
> other to government positions and use governmental power and authority
> to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in
> fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be
> appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
Alas, that seems to be a feature of all governments.
> 14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are
> a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear
> campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use
> of legislation to control voting numbers or political district
> boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also
> typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
There are no elections in fascist countries.
There are elections in dictatorships where the winner gets 100 percent
of the vote.
Democracies have to be continually vigilent against election fraud
since there is a constant temptation for various factions to give
themselves an edge by tinkering with the election process itself.
In this country, election fraud is standard procedure of the
Democratic
Party. Democrats stuff ballot boxes. Democrats have dead people rise
from their graves to vote. Democrats arrange for non-citizens to vote.
When the Democrats lose by a small margin, they demand a recount where
they destroy opposition ballots.
In the 2000 election in Florida during the recount, Democrats counted
non-votes as votes while they tried to throw out military votes. Their
real grievance is that U.S. Supreme Court put a stop to their fraud.
> _____________________________________________________
>
> Do they seem familiar? Of course they do.
>
What is familiar is the usual smears that liberals like to engage in.
Dave Simpson
that its establishmentarian liberals have often resorted to fascism
instead of full-blown Communistic-style state-ownership socialism to
achieve their aims since the New Deal (which would have made Mussolini
proud).
Harry Treason Hope left out the most recent famous example of
fascism in the USA, the corporatist-state-run, HMO-based "HillaryCare"
that was the main cause of the 1994 election results along with the
elitism and contempt for Americans as well as America associated with
that federal takeover scheme.
Dave Simpson
Michelle Malta
You don't get laid much, do you? Try it. It might help you deal
with your anger.
Jack Hoff
observe what fascist regimes have in common, and you know what? He's
right. If you take the time to study fascist regimes, he's right on
the mark.
Didn't see anything in there explicity or implicitly linking fascism
to George W Bush or the neo-conservative movement... but the
right-wingers sure foamed at the mouth all the same! They protest too
much... they must know we're on to them. Thanks for giving yourselves
away!
I'm going to go ahead and connect the dots just to make sure that you
rightwing BS spewers really do have something to rage about.
Harry Hope <riv...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<urnvbvcoimc7u4ng0...@4ax.com>...
> http://www.rense.com/general37/fascism.htm
>
> The 14 Defining Characteristics Of Fascism
>
> 5-11-3
>
> Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler
> (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and
> several Latin American regimes.
>
> Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:
>
> 1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make
> constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other
> paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on
> clothing and in public displays.
check
>
> 2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of
> enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are
> persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of
> "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of
> torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of
> prisoners, etc.
Patriot Act and the proposed Patriot Act II, as well as the GOP
movement to make the Patriot Act permanent. Check.
> 3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The
> people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to
> eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or
> religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists,
> etc.
Check.
>
> 4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic
> problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of
> government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and
> military service are glamorized.
Our states are going broke but the military budget goes up, up , up...
check!
>
> 5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be
> almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional
> gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality
> are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian
> of the family institution.
The neo-con family values crowd is in power again. Sen. Rick Santorum.
Check.
> 6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled
> by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly
> controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople
> and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
>
check.
> 7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational
> tool by the government over the masses.
check.
>
> 8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist
> nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool
> to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is
> common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the
> religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or
> actions.
>
check.
> 9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business
> aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the
> government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial
> business/government relationship and power elite.
Enron. Halliburton. Check.
>
> 10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor
> is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are
> either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
West Coast dockworkers. Check.
>
> 11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to
> promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia.
> It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored
> or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly
> attacked.
There was a Muslim professor in Florida who was discharged and is
being deported, though it's fair to say that there may have been
grounds for it. However Karen Hughes, ex-presidential
adviser/Svengali/attack dog and still sometime-speechwriter, is widely
reported to rarely read a book and doesn't trust those who do read
books.Clearly an anti-intellectual, anti-arts administration.
Half-a-check.
>
> 12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the
> police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people
> are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil
> liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police
> force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
>
We're not quite at the point where we have a national police force
with virtually unlimited power.. but the proposed Patriot Act II goes
a long way towards it. Half-a-check.
> 13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always
> are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each
> other to government positions and use governmental power and authority
> to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in
> fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be
> appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
Halliburton. Enron. Defense Policy Board. Check.
>
> 14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are
> a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear
> campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use
> of legislation to control voting numbers or political district
> boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also
> typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
The 2000 coup. The attempt by Tom DeLay to re-draw Texas congressional
districts to favor Republicans just a year and a half after a
court-imposed redistricting plan (redistricting is supposed to be done
every 10 years, not any time the party in power feels like it) Double
check.
]
ro...@telus.net
>Harry Hope wrote:
>
>> http://www.rense.com/general37/fascism.htm
>>
>> The 14 Defining Characteristics Of Fascism
>>
>> 5-11-3
>>
>> Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler
>> (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and
>> several Latin American regimes.
>
>By which means Britt infers that only fascists oppose the liberal
>agenda.
An asinine non sequitur.
>> Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:
>>
>> 1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make
>> constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other
>> paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on
>> clothing and in public displays.
>
>Britt concludes that patriotism per se is fascist.
As expected, you do not know the difference between patriotism and
cheap, flag-waving jingoism.
>> 2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of
>> enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are
>> persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of
>> "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of
>> torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of
>> prisoners, etc.
>
>Denial of human rights are characteristic of communist regimes as well
>as fascist regimes. Yet the liberal contingent finds the latter much
>more tolerable.
??? Inexplicable.
>> 3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The
>> people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to
>> eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or
>> religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists,
>> etc.
>
>Britt concludes that opposition to communism and terrorism as fascist.
An obvious lie.
>Thus to avoid the stigma of fascism, Britt would have us adopt a
>tolerant and indulgent attitude toward communists and terrorists.
Lie.
>> 4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic
>> problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of
>> government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and
>> military service are glamorized.
>
>Britt concludes that those not believing in unilateral disarmament are
>fascist, that non-pacifists are fascists.
Idiocy, with no relation to the previous statement.
>> 5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be
>> almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional
>> gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality
>> are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian
>> of the family institution.
>
>True. Sexism has been a feature of Nazism and fascism. It's also a
>feature of Islamic theocracies.
And of the Bush administration.
>> 6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled
>> by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly
>> controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople
>> and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
>
>This is not unique to fascism. Communist countries nationalize the
>media and do not permit any private news or opinion outlets.
In fascist countries, wealthy private interests share control of the
media with government, and use them as government propaganda conduits.
Like Clear Channel radio.
>When liberals are in power, they try to use the "fairness doctrine" to
>muzzle critics of liberal policies. It was only the elimination of the
>fairness doctrine that made conservative talk shows possible.
An outrageous lie, as William F Buckley's long-running "Firing Line"
show on _PBS_ proves. Remember Morton Downey, Jr?
>> 7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational
>> tool by the government over the masses.
>
>Not a unique feature of fascism. Communist countries are very much
>obsessed with national security.
>
>Britt, of course, tries to paint the fascist label on anyone not
>completely indifferent to national security, who do not believe in
>pacifism.
Lie. Many non-fascist countries have significant militaries, and
respected military and security policies: Britain, Australia, France
and Switzerland come to mind.
>> 8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist
>> nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool
>> to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is
>> common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the
>> religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or
>> actions.
>
>That would be characteristic of theocracy.
And of fascism.
>This was definition not true of Nazi Germany.
Lie.
>Adolf Hitler was an
>atheist.
Whatever his personal views might have been, he often invoked God in
support of his regime and its actions and policies.
>> 9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business
>> aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the
>> government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial
>> business/government relationship and power elite.
>
>No. Corporate power is controlled.
That is simply a lie. Britt did the research and presented the facts.
Jim Austin merely lies.
>Communist countries nationalize all business firms. In fascist
>countries like Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany, business owners retain
>title and still get to occupy their spacious offices, but all major
>economic decision are made by the state, by various agencies of the
>government.
False. In fascist countries, government agencies are in fact
controlled by the wealthy private interests they supposedly regulate.
>> 10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor
>> is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are
>> either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
>
>Labor unions are eliminated in communist countries as well, and thus
>is not a unique feature of fascism.
Jim Austin is ignorant as well as a liar. A concept's defining
characteristics are not _individually_ unique to that concept, but in
aggregate.
>Britt tries to conclude that those not allowing labor unions to get
>their way on all issues are fascist.
Another outrageous lie.
>> 11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to
>> promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia.
>> It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored
>> or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly
>> attacked.
>
>This is common in communist countries, Moslem theocracies and
>dictatorships in general.
While it is true of theocracies, many socialist countries have given
scientists, writers, and other intellectuals considerable prestige (as
long as they supported the regime, of course). Fascist countries do
not accord intellectuals high prestige, even when they _do_ support
the regime.
>This is also becoming true in America as well. In America, the threat
>comes from liberals and left wingers who conduct reigns of terror on
>college campuses to purge them of politically incorrect thoughts.
Outrageous nonsense. It is the mass media which are virtually devoid
of dissenting voices.
>> 12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the
>> police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people
>> are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil
>> liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police
>> force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
>
>Dictatorships do clamp down on crime: fascist dictators, socialist
>dictators, authoritarian dictators.
Nope. Crime is rampant in many dictatorships. And the defining
characteristic of fascism is not low crime, but an obsessive concern
with punishment of criminals and aggrandizement of police power.
>Britt concludes that in order to keep from being a fascist, one must
>adopt
>a tolerant and indulgent attitude toward punks, hoods, thugs and other
>assorted lowlives.
Like DEA and BATF agents....?
>> 13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always
>> are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each
>> other to government positions and use governmental power and authority
>> to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in
>> fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be
>> appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
>
>Alas, that seems to be a feature of all governments.
Nonsense. While all governments are imperfect, cronyism and
corruption are far more prevalent in certain cases, especially fascist
and socialist regimes. Some examples of governments notably low in
cronyism and corruption: Denmark, Germany, the Netherlands,
Switzerland, Singapore, Australia, and New Zealand. The USA was
pretty clean until the Johnson and Nixon administrations.
>> 14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are
>> a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear
>> campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use
>> of legislation to control voting numbers or political district
>> boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also
>> typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
>
>There are no elections in fascist countries.
Lie.
>There are elections in dictatorships where the winner gets 100 percent
>of the vote.
Most fascist countries hold sham elections where the government is
elected by less than 100% of the vote.
>Democracies have to be continually vigilent against election fraud
>since there is a constant temptation for various factions to give
>themselves an edge by tinkering with the election process itself.
Bingo. Like purging voters' lists of people likely to vote for the
other side.
>In this country, election fraud is standard procedure of the
>Democratic
>Party. Democrats stuff ballot boxes. Democrats have dead people rise
>from their graves to vote. Democrats arrange for non-citizens to vote.
While Republicans arrange for citizens to be denied their votes...
>> Do they seem familiar? Of course they do.
>
>What is familiar is the usual smears that liberals like to engage in.
What is really familiar is the usual lies that fascist apologists like
to engage in.
-- Roy L
Brian
Jack Hoff wrote:
> Harry/Dr. Britt must have hit the nail on the head. All he did was
> observe what fascist regimes have in common, and you know what? He's
> right. If you take the time to study fascist regimes, he's right on
> the mark.
Up to that point.
Its when he tries to apply that to the US that he loses.
> Didn't see anything in there explicity or implicitly linking fascism
> to George W Bush or the neo-conservative movement... but the
> right-wingers sure foamed at the mouth all the same! They protest too
> much... they must know we're on to them. Thanks for giving yourselves
> away!
LOL,
Keep dreaming.
> I'm going to go ahead and connect the dots just to make sure that you
> rightwing BS spewers really do have something to rage about.
You've already admitted that you're another blindly ignorant partisan.
Why should we waste any more time reading your tripe?
Jack Hoff
because you might learn something about the way things really are.
ro...@telus.net
wrote:
>We're not quite at the point where we have a national police force
>with virtually unlimited power.
DEA and BATF.
-- Roy L
ElevenBravo
to the largest facist government in the history of the world - Nazi
Germany.
> 10. Labor Power is Suppressed
Earth to Dr. Britt and other ill-informed leftists: The official name
of the Nazis was the National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP).
The first political party that Hitler joined was the German Workers
Party, which eventually morphed into the Nazi Party. The majority of
the early propaganda appeals of the Nazi Party were specifically
directed at unions and common workers. This "characteristic" is
completely untrue drivel. To be sure, unions eventually were
"absorbed" by the state after Hitler seized complete control, but so
was every other facet of society. It wasn't a disdain for unions, it
was a maniacal quest for complete control.
> 11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Here he is SO WRONG it is funny. First of all, a large portion of
Hitler's inner circle were artists of one sort or another. Hitler
himself was an artist, and felt that the protection of "German
Culture" was one of the most important facets of the Nazi agenda. One
of the first public proclamations made by the NSDAP called for the
"cleansing" of German arts from the repulsive influence of bolsheviks
and jews. Hitler spent the majority of his time (prior to the war)
drawing architectural sketches of new German cities. The Nazi party
held an annual showing of German arts each year. German sculptors
were employed throughout the Reich creating huge impressive monuments
to German culture. Hitler was obsessed with the arts. "To understand
Nazism, one must first understand Wagner." Yeah, a political movement
based on a the works of a classical composer must have a disdain for
the arts.
Please, before you throw out this type of senseless drivel, read some
history to determine if it is really true.
11B
ro...@telus.net
(ElevenBravo) wrote:
>I must point out that 2 of Mr. Britt's "characteristics" don't apply
>to the largest facist government in the history of the world - Nazi
>Germany.
Flat-out false, on two counts:
1) They do apply, and
2) The largest fascist government in history was Imperial Japan.
>> 10. Labor Power is Suppressed
>
>Earth to Dr. Britt and other ill-informed leftists:
The facts make it clear that you are far, _far_ less informed than Dr.
Britt.
>The official name
>of the Nazis was the National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP).
>The first political party that Hitler joined was the German Workers
>Party, which eventually morphed into the Nazi Party. The majority of
>the early propaganda appeals of the Nazi Party were specifically
>directed at unions and common workers.
And that is all _completely_irrelevant_ to the _fact_ that the Nazis,
once in government, suppressed all independent labor union power. The
uions became purely organs of the party and the government, not of the
workers.
>This "characteristic" is
>completely untrue drivel.
That is a flat, outright lie.
>To be sure, unions eventually were
>"absorbed" by the state after Hitler seized complete control, but so
>was every other facet of society.
Labor unions were, but not every other facet of society, liar. The
curches were not, for one.
>It wasn't a disdain for unions, it
>was a maniacal quest for complete control.
?? So? These comments in no way counter the _fact_ that the Nazis
supressed the German labor unions and rendered them virtually
powerless.
>> 11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
>
>Here he is SO WRONG it is funny.
No, he is quite correct, and you are wrong.
>First of all, a large portion of
>Hitler's inner circle were artists of one sort or another.
Garbage. Who was an artist, aside from Leni Riefenstahl the movie
director (who was only on the periphery of the inner circle)? Hess?
Himmler? Goebbels? Goering? Speer?
For extra credit, which of the above was it who said, "Whenever anyone
mentions 'culture,' I reach for my revolver"?
>Hitler himself was an artist,
?? ROTFL!! He was a _painter_. He supported himself painting
people's _apartments_, not their _portraits_.
>and felt that the protection of "German
>Culture" was one of the most important facets of the Nazi agenda.
He wanted to use culture for propaganda, certainly. But that just
meant putting a social realist spin on some hoary Teutonic totems.
It wasn't art.
>One
>of the first public proclamations made by the NSDAP called for the
>"cleansing" of German arts from the repulsive influence of bolsheviks
>and jews.
Right. The arts became nothing but tools of propaganda under the
Nazis. Real art and culture were exterminated.
>Hitler spent the majority of his time (prior to the war)
>drawing architectural sketches of new German cities.
So? Megalomania is not artistry.
>The Nazi party
>held an annual showing of German arts each year.
Carefully selected social realist dreck.
One great artist, after viewing one of these festivals, said, "But
where is the art?"
>German sculptors
>were employed throughout the Reich creating huge impressive monuments
>to German culture.
Right. Monuments (eyesores, in fact). Not art.
>Hitler was obsessed with the arts. "To understand
>Nazism, one must first understand Wagner." Yeah, a political movement
>based on a the works of a classical composer must have a disdain for
>the arts.
??? He only picked Wagner because Wagner was a fanatical anti-Semite
and German nationalist as well as a great composer. And Hitler
dismissed virtually all music since Wagner as decadent. That _is_ a
disdain for art.
>Please, before you throw out this type of senseless drivel, read some
>history to determine if it is really true.
Back atcha, ignoramus.
-- Roy L
neptune3
wrote:
>http://www.rense.com/general37/fascism.htm
>
>The 14 Defining Characteristics Of Fascism
>
>5-11-3
>
>Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler
>(Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and
>several Latin American regimes.
>
>Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:
>
>1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make
>constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other
>paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on
>clothing and in public displays.
>
>2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of
>enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are
>persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of
>"need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of
>torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of
>prisoners, etc.
>
>3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The
>people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to
>eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or
>religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists,
>etc.
>
Hitler was against the Jews mainly because the Jews controlled the
media and because the Jews were behind Communism. Here are some quotes
from Mein Kampf:
"In my eyes the charge against Judaism became a grave one the
moment
I discovered the Jewish activities in the Press, in art, in
literature and
the theatre. All unctuous protests were now more or less futile. One
needed
only to look at the posters announcing the hideous productions of the
cinema and theatre, and study the names of the authors who were
highly
lauded there in order to become permanently adamant on Jewish
questions.
Here was a pestilence, a moral pestilence, with which the public was
being
infected. It was worse that the Black Plague of long ago. And in what
mighty doses this poison was manufactured and distributed. Naturally,
the
lower the moral and intellectual level of such an author of artistic
products the more inexhaustible his fecundity. Sometimes it went so
far
that one of these fellows, acting like a sewage pump, would shoot his
filth
directly in the face of other members of the human race. In this
connection
we must remember there is no limit to the number of such people. One
ought
to realize that for one Goethe, Nature may bring into existance ten
thousand such despoilers who act as the worst kind of germ-carriers
in
poisoning human souls. It was a terrible thought, and yet it could
not be
avoided, that the greater number of the Jews seemed specially
destined by
Nature to play this shameful part.
"And is it for this reason that they can be called the chosen
people?
"I began then to investigate carefully the names of all the
fabricators of these unclean products in public cultural life. The
result
of that inquiry was still more disfavourable to the attitude which I
had
hitherto held in regard to the Jews. Though my feelings might rebel a
thousand time, reason now had to draw its own conclusions.
"The fact that nine-tenths of all the smutty literature,
artistic
tripe and theatrical banalities, had to be charged to the account of
people
who formed scarcely one per cent of the nation- that fact could not
be
gainsaid. It was there, and had to be admitted. Then I began to
examine my
favorite 'World Press', with that fact before my mind.
"The deeper my soundings went the lesser grew my respect for
that
Press which I formerly admired. Its style became still more repellant
and I
was forced to reject its ideas as entirely shallow and superficial.
To
claim that in the presentation of facts and views its attitide was
impartial seemed to me to contain more falsehood than truth. The
writers
were- Jews.
"Thousands of details that I had scarcely noticed before seemed
to me
now to deserve attention. I began to grasp and understand things
which I
had formerly looked at in a different light."
"Making an effort to overcome my natural reluctance, I tried
to
read articles of this nature published in the Marxist Press; but in
doing
so my aversion increased all the more. And then I set about learning
something of the people who wrote and published this mischievous
stuff.
From the publisher downwards, all of them were Jews. I recalled to
mind the
names of the public leaders of Marxism, and then I realized that most
of
them belonged to the Chosen Race- the Social Democratic
representatives in
the Imperial Cabinet as well as the secretaries if the Trades Unions
and
the street agitators. Everywhere the same sinister picture presented
itself. I shall never forget the row of names- Austerlitz, David,
Adler,
Ellonbogen, and others. One fact became quite evident to me. It was
that
this alien race held in its hands the leadership of that Social
Democratic
Party with whose minor representatives I had been disputing for
months
past."
www.spearhead-uk.com http://www.natvan.com
http://www.altermedia.info/ www.AmRen.com
Jim Austin
> On 12 May 2003 16:09:31 -0700, b...@ix.netcom.com (Jim Austin) wrote:
>
> >Harry Hope wrote:
> >
> >> http://www.rense.com/general37/fascism.htm
> >>
> >> The 14 Defining Characteristics Of Fascism
> >>
> >> 5-11-3
> >>
> >> Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler
> >> (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and
> >> several Latin American regimes.
> >
> >By which means Britt infers that only fascists oppose the liberal
> >agenda.
>
> An asinine non sequitur.
This asshole doesn't know that a non sequitur is.
> >> Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:
> >>
> >> 1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make
> >> constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other
> >> paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on
> >> clothing and in public displays.
> >
> >Britt concludes that patriotism per se is fascist.
>
> As expected, you do not know the difference between patriotism and
> cheap, flag-waving jingoism.
There is no difference. "Jingoism" is the liberal term for patriotism.
> >> 2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of
> >> enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are
> >> persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of
> >> "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of
> >> torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of
> >> prisoners, etc.
> >
> >Denial of human rights are characteristic of communist regimes as well
> >as fascist regimes. Yet the liberal contingent finds the latter much
> >more tolerable.
>
> ??? Inexplicable.
Sounds like a personal problem.
> >> 3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The
> >> people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to
> >> eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or
> >> religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists,
> >> etc.
> >
> >Britt concludes that opposition to communism and terrorism as fascist.
>
> An obvious lie.
An arbitrary denial of the obvious.
The statement comes from Britt's own words: "Identification of
Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause" wherein he includes
"communists" and "terrorists".
> >Thus to avoid the stigma of fascism, Britt would have us adopt a
> >tolerant and indulgent attitude toward communists and terrorists.
>
> Lie.
Actually, that's not even a denial, just an expression of malice by
which Roy thinks he can blot out the real world.
> >> 4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic
> >> problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of
> >> government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and
> >> military service are glamorized.
> >
> >Britt concludes that those not believing in unilateral disarmament are
> >fascist, that non-pacifists are fascists.
>
> Idiocy, with no relation to the previous statement.
Again, this is just an expression of malice to deny the obvious.
Britt listed "Supremacy of the Military" as a defining characteristic
of fascism. Thus liberals can throw this at anybody who thinks the
U.S. should have an adequate military. Liberal readily accuse such
people of wanting to give the military "a disproportionate amount of
government funding."
> >> 5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be
> >> almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional
> >> gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality
> >> are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian
> >> of the family institution.
> >
> >True. Sexism has been a feature of Nazism and fascism. It's also a
> >feature of Islamic theocracies.
I forgot to mention how liberals give Islamic theocracies a free pass
for the worst sort of oppression of women.
> And of the Bush administration.
Arbitrary assertion.
> >> 6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled
> >> by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly
> >> controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople
> >> and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
> >
> >This is not unique to fascism. Communist countries nationalize the
> >media and do not permit any private news or opinion outlets.
>
> In fascist countries, wealthy private interests share control of the
> media with government, and use them as government propaganda conduits.
> Like Clear Channel radio.
In Nazi German and Fascist Italy, government control of the media was
total and complete.
But then, this is Roy's attempt to paint the "fascist" label on that
portion of the media that agrees with the current administration.
> >When liberals are in power, they try to use the "fairness doctrine" to
> >muzzle critics of liberal policies. It was only the elimination of the
> >fairness doctrine that made conservative talk shows possible.
>
> An outrageous lie, as William F Buckley's long-running "Firing Line"
> show on _PBS_ proves.
1. Buckley's show was boring and couldn't make it on commercial TV.
2. Buckley has been referred to as an "establishment conservative" who
does not wonder far from what liberals will tolerate, and thus is not
a very good counter example.
> Remember Morton Downey, Jr?
Yes. His show came on the air shortly after the FCC repealed the
"fairness doctrine" during the Reagan administration.
> >> 7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational
> >> tool by the government over the masses.
> >
> >Not a unique feature of fascism. Communist countries are very much
> >obsessed with national security.
> >
> >Britt, of course, tries to paint the fascist label on anyone not
> >completely indifferent to national security, who do not believe in
> >pacifism.
>
> Lie. Many non-fascist countries have significant militaries, and
> respected military and security policies: Britain, Australia, France
> and Switzerland come to mind.
Only after those countries overcame domestic opposition that called
such policies "fascist".
> >> 8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist
> >> nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool
> >> to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is
> >> common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the
> >> religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or
> >> actions.
> >
> >That would be characteristic of theocracy.
>
> And of fascism.
Arbitrary assertion.
> >This was definition not true of Nazi Germany.
>
> Lie.
Not even a denial -- just another attempt to wipe out reality with an
expressin of malice.
> >Adolf Hitler was an atheist.
>
> Whatever his personal views might have been, he often invoked God in
> support of his regime and its actions and policies.
Hitler did not "use the most common religion in the nation as a tool
to manipulate public opinion." Much of the symbolism used by the Nazis
came from Germany's pre-Christian culture, not from Christianity.
> >> 9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business
> >> aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the
> >> government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial
> >> business/government relationship and power elite.
> >
> >No. Corporate power is controlled.
>
> That is simply a lie. Britt did the research and presented the facts.
No. Britt only presented conclusions.
> Jim Austin merely lies.
Roy L (what's his face) pathetically tries to deny the obvious. He
thinks his own obvious lies become true through mindless repetition.
> >Communist countries nationalize all business firms. In fascist
> >countries like Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany, business owners retain
> >title and still get to occupy their spacious offices, but all major
> >economic decision are made by the state, by various agencies of the
> >government.
>
> False. In fascist countries, government agencies are in fact
> controlled by the wealthy private interests they supposedly regulate.
Arbitrary assertion that leftists like to make over and over again.
Lefties think that if the government doesn't kill off all the wealthy
and nationalize their property, the wealthy must control the
government. That conclusion comes entirely from their own warped
ideology.
> >> 10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor
> >> is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are
> >> either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
> >
> >Labor unions are eliminated in communist countries as well, and thus
> >is not a unique feature of fascism.
No denial here.
> Jim Austin is ignorant as well as a liar.
Roy thinks that his petulant trantrums can wipe out all inconvenient
facts.
> A concept's defining characteristics are not _individually_ unique to that
> concept, but in aggregate.
In the aggregate, Britt only lists opposition to the liberal agenda
which he tries to define as fascist.
> >Britt tries to conclude that those not allowing labor unions to get
> >their way on all issues are fascist.
>
> Another outrageous lie.
Roy thinks that anything he finds outrageous must be a lie, that his
own outrage is his answer to a world that doesn't immediately conform
to his whims.
> >> 11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to
> >> promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia.
> >> It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored
> >> or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly
> >> attacked.
> >
> >This is common in communist countries, Moslem theocracies and
> >dictatorships in general.
>
> While it is true of theocracies, many socialist countries have given
> scientists, writers, and other intellectuals considerable prestige (as
> long as they supported the regime, of course). Fascist countries do
> not accord intellectuals high prestige, even when they _do_ support
> the regime.
>
> >This is also becoming true in America as well. In America, the threat
> >comes from liberals and left wingers who conduct reigns of terror on
> >college campuses to purge them of politically incorrect thoughts.
>
> Outrageous nonsense.
Roy's inability to make sense of the truth doesn't wipe out the truth.
> It is the mass media which are virtually devoid of dissenting voices.
A mass media dominated by liberals. Indeed, it the liberals who squak
the loudest about dissent coming from within the media, whether it's
Fox News or conservative radio talk shows.
> >> 12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the
> >> police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people
> >> are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil
> >> liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police
> >> force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
> >
> >Dictatorships do clamp down on crime: fascist dictators, socialist
> >dictators, authoritarian dictators.
>
> Nope. Crime is rampant in many dictatorships.
In weak dictatorships, yes.
> And the defining characteristic of fascism is not low crime, but an obsessive
> concern with punishment of criminals and aggrandizement of police power.
Thus to be non-fascist, one must restrict police and turn criminals
free.
> >Britt concludes that in order to keep from being a fascist, one must
> >adopt a tolerant and indulgent attitude toward punks, hoods, thugs and other
> >assorted lowlives.
>
> Like DEA and BATF agents....?
Like the liberal contingent.
> >> 13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always
> >> are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each
> >> other to government positions and use governmental power and authority
> >> to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in
> >> fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be
> >> appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
> >
> >Alas, that seems to be a feature of all governments.
>
> Nonsense. While all governments are imperfect, cronyism and
> corruption are far more prevalent in certain cases, especially fascist
> and socialist regimes. Some examples of governments notably low in
> cronyism and corruption: Denmark, Germany, the Netherlands,
> Switzerland, Singapore, Australia, and New Zealand.
I'll have to check it out sometime.
> The USA was pretty clean until the Johnson and Nixon administrations.
There was plenty of corruption in the Harding administration and
croynism in the Truman administration.
> >> 14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are
> >> a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear
> >> campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use
> >> of legislation to control voting numbers or political district
> >> boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also
> >> typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
> >
> >There are no elections in fascist countries.
>
> Lie.
A stupid attempt to deny the obvious.
> >There are elections in dictatorships where the winner gets 100 percent
> >of the vote.
>
> Most fascist countries hold sham elections where the government is
> elected by less than 100% of the vote.
Calling such countries fascist doesn't make them so.
> >Democracies have to be continually vigilent against election fraud
> >since there is a constant temptation for various factions to give
> >themselves an edge by tinkering with the election process itself.
>
> Bingo. Like purging voters' lists of people likely to vote for the
> other side.
That would be the Democrats effort to purge the election from absentee
military votes since they tend to vote Republican.
> >In this country, election fraud is standard procedure of the
> >Democratic Party. Democrats stuff ballot boxes. Democrats have dead people
> >rise from their graves to vote. Democrats arrange for non-citizens to vote.
>
> While Republicans arrange for citizens to be denied their votes...
Or rather, Republicans attempt to arrange for non-citizens to be
denied a vote.
> >> Do they seem familiar? Of course they do.
> >
> >What is familiar is the usual smears that liberals like to engage in.
>
> What is really familiar is the usual lies that fascist apologists like
> to engage in.
All one has to do is substitute "communist" for "fascist" to get the
real situation.
Sometime in the 1930s, communists started calling those to the right
of Joseph Stalin a "fascist". That got old within a week and a half,
but left wingers have never given up on it.
Jim Austin
They call this an ad hominum argument. Smart leftists use it when they
get desperate. Stupid lefties use nothing else.
ro...@telus.net
>ro...@telus.net wrote in message news:<3ec19bac...@news.telus.net>...
>> On 12 May 2003 16:09:31 -0700, b...@ix.netcom.com (Jim Austin) wrote:
>>
>> >Harry Hope wrote:
>> >
>> >> http://www.rense.com/general37/fascism.htm
>> >>
>> >> The 14 Defining Characteristics Of Fascism
>> >>
>> >> 5-11-3
>> >>
>> >> Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler
>> >> (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and
>> >> several Latin American regimes.
>> >
>> >By which means Britt infers that only fascists oppose the liberal
>> >agenda.
>>
>> An asinine non sequitur.
>
>This asshole doesn't know that a non sequitur is.
Ah. Potty mouth is back...
>> >> Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:
>> >>
>> >> 1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make
>> >> constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other
>> >> paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on
>> >> clothing and in public displays.
>> >
>> >Britt concludes that patriotism per se is fascist.
>>
>> As expected, you do not know the difference between patriotism and
>> cheap, flag-waving jingoism.
>
>There is no difference. "Jingoism" is the liberal term for patriotism.
Nope. Jingoism serves the government. Patriotism serves the country.
>> >> 3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The
>> >> people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to
>> >> eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or
>> >> religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists,
>> >> etc.
>> >
>> >Britt concludes that opposition to communism and terrorism as fascist.
>>
>> An obvious lie.
>
>An arbitrary denial of the obvious.
>
>The statement comes from Britt's own words: "Identification of
>Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause" wherein he includes
>"communists" and "terrorists".
Thanks for admitting you lied. Everyone reading this except you
understands that "opposition to" is quite different from
"identification of as unifying cause."
>> >Thus to avoid the stigma of fascism, Britt would have us adopt a
>> >tolerant and indulgent attitude toward communists and terrorists.
>>
>> Lie.
>
>Actually, that's not even a denial, just an expression of malice by
>which Roy thinks he can blot out the real world.
<yawn>
>> >> 4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic
>> >> problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of
>> >> government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and
>> >> military service are glamorized.
>> >
>> >Britt concludes that those not believing in unilateral disarmament are
>> >fascist, that non-pacifists are fascists.
>>
>> Idiocy, with no relation to the previous statement.
>
>Again, this is just an expression of malice to deny the obvious.
>
>Britt listed "Supremacy of the Military" as a defining characteristic
>of fascism. Thus liberals can throw this at anybody who thinks the
>U.S. should have an adequate military.
More idiocy. You never tire of making a fool of yourself, do you?
>Liberal readily accuse such
>people of wanting to give the military "a disproportionate amount of
>government funding."
Even disproportionate funding is not the same as supremacy. Liar.
>> >> 5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be
>> >> almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional
>> >> gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality
>> >> are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian
>> >> of the family institution.
>> >
>> >True. Sexism has been a feature of Nazism and fascism. It's also a
>> >feature of Islamic theocracies.
>
>I forgot to mention how liberals give Islamic theocracies a free pass
>for the worst sort of oppression of women.
That lets me out, then...
>> And of the Bush administration.
>
>Arbitrary assertion.
Threat to abortion rights, anyone...?
>> >> 6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled
>> >> by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly
>> >> controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople
>> >> and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
>> >
>> >This is not unique to fascism. Communist countries nationalize the
>> >media and do not permit any private news or opinion outlets.
>>
>> In fascist countries, wealthy private interests share control of the
>> media with government, and use them as government propaganda conduits.
>> Like Clear Channel radio.
>
>In Nazi German and Fascist Italy, government control of the media was
>total and complete.
Nope. There was significant private ownership, and especially in
Italy, also private control. Thus, Ayn Rand's "We the Living" was
made _and_shown_ in fascist Italy, though it was banned in Germany.
>But then, this is Roy's attempt to paint the "fascist" label on that
>portion of the media that agrees with the current administration.
To slavishly agree with a fascist administration is by definition
fascist.
>> >When liberals are in power, they try to use the "fairness doctrine" to
>> >muzzle critics of liberal policies. It was only the elimination of the
>> >fairness doctrine that made conservative talk shows possible.
>>
>> An outrageous lie, as William F Buckley's long-running "Firing Line"
>> show on _PBS_ proves.
>
>1. Buckley's show was boring and couldn't make it on commercial TV.
Irrelevant. And I didn't find it boring. But then, I know how to
read...
>2. Buckley has been referred to as an "establishment conservative" who
>does not wonder far from what liberals will tolerate, and thus is not
>a very good counter example.
Thank you for admitting you lied.
>> Remember Morton Downey, Jr?
>
>Yes. His show came on the air shortly after the FCC repealed the
>"fairness doctrine" during the Reagan administration.
And eloquently demonstrated the effects of that repeal: not a
conservative voice, but thinly veiled fascist demagoguery.
>> >> 7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational
>> >> tool by the government over the masses.
>> >
>> >Not a unique feature of fascism. Communist countries are very much
>> >obsessed with national security.
>> >
>> >Britt, of course, tries to paint the fascist label on anyone not
>> >completely indifferent to national security, who do not believe in
>> >pacifism.
>>
>> Lie. Many non-fascist countries have significant militaries, and
>> respected military and security policies: Britain, Australia, France
>> and Switzerland come to mind.
>
>Only after those countries overcame domestic opposition that called
>such policies "fascist".
Thank you for admitting that you lied.
>> >> 8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist
>> >> nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool
>> >> to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is
>> >> common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the
>> >> religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or
>> >> actions.
>> >
>> >That would be characteristic of theocracy.
>>
>> And of fascism.
>
>Arbitrary assertion.
Britt proved it by his research.
>> >This was definition not true of Nazi Germany.
>>
>> Lie.
>
>Not even a denial
??? _Lie_!
>-- just another attempt to wipe out reality with an
>expressin of malice.
I proved you lied by identifying the facts of reality which you tried
to deny. Deal with it.
>> >Adolf Hitler was an atheist.
>>
>> Whatever his personal views might have been, he often invoked God in
>> support of his regime and its actions and policies.
>
>Hitler did not "use the most common religion in the nation as a tool
>to manipulate public opinion."
Lie.
>Much of the symbolism used by the Nazis
>came from Germany's pre-Christian culture, not from Christianity.
But he invoked God and Christianity regularly, including blaming the
Jews for Christ's crucifixion.
>> >> 9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business
>> >> aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the
>> >> government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial
>> >> business/government relationship and power elite.
>> >
>> >No. Corporate power is controlled.
>>
>> That is simply a lie. Britt did the research and presented the facts.
>
>No. Britt only presented conclusions.
Lie. The quoted material was just a synopsis of Britt's conclusions;
his research was far more voluminous.
>> >Communist countries nationalize all business firms. In fascist
>> >countries like Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany, business owners retain
>> >title and still get to occupy their spacious offices, but all major
>> >economic decision are made by the state, by various agencies of the
>> >government.
>>
>> False. In fascist countries, government agencies are in fact
>> controlled by the wealthy private interests they supposedly regulate.
>
>Arbitrary assertion that leftists like to make over and over again.
It is fact.
>Lefties think that if the government doesn't kill off all the wealthy
>and nationalize their property, the wealthy must control the
>government.
Lie.
>> >> 10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor
>> >> is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are
>> >> either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
>> >
>> >Labor unions are eliminated in communist countries as well, and thus
>> >is not a unique feature of fascism.
>
>No denial here.
Of course not. One does not deny true premises when refuting a
fallacious argument.
>> A concept's defining characteristics are not _individually_ unique to that
>> concept, but in aggregate.
>
>In the aggregate, Britt only lists opposition to the liberal agenda
>which he tries to define as fascist.
Lie.
>> >Britt tries to conclude that those not allowing labor unions to get
>> >their way on all issues are fascist.
>>
>> Another outrageous lie.
>
>Roy thinks that anything he finds outrageous must be a lie, that his
>own outrage is his answer to a world that doesn't immediately conform
>to his whims.
You lied. Obviously. Deal with it.
>> >This is also becoming true in America as well. In America, the threat
>> >comes from liberals and left wingers who conduct reigns of terror on
>> >college campuses to purge them of politically incorrect thoughts.
>>
>> Outrageous nonsense.
>
>Roy's inability to make sense of the truth doesn't wipe out the truth.
>
>> It is the mass media which are virtually devoid of dissenting voices.
>
>A mass media dominated by liberals.
ROTFL!!
>> >> 12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the
>> >> police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people
>> >> are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil
>> >> liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police
>> >> force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
>> >
>> >Dictatorships do clamp down on crime: fascist dictators, socialist
>> >dictators, authoritarian dictators.
>>
>> Nope. Crime is rampant in many dictatorships.
>
>In weak dictatorships, yes.
Thank you for admitting that you lied again.
>> And the defining characteristic of fascism is not low crime, but an obsessive
>> concern with punishment of criminals and aggrandizement of police power.
>
>Thus to be non-fascist, one must restrict police
To their constitutional mandates. Right.
>and turn criminals free.
When they have not been convicted, or have served their sentences.
Right.
>> >> 13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always
>> >> are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each
>> >> other to government positions and use governmental power and authority
>> >> to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in
>> >> fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be
>> >> appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
>> >
>> >Alas, that seems to be a feature of all governments.
>>
>> Nonsense. While all governments are imperfect, cronyism and
>> corruption are far more prevalent in certain cases, especially fascist
>> and socialist regimes. Some examples of governments notably low in
>> cronyism and corruption: Denmark, Germany, the Netherlands,
>> Switzerland, Singapore, Australia, and New Zealand.
>
>I'll have to check it out sometime.
Why bother? The facts don't matter to you, anyway.
>> The USA was pretty clean until the Johnson and Nixon administrations.
>
>There was plenty of corruption in the Harding administration and
>croynism in the Truman administration.
It was never perfect, of course, right from the beginning. Even the
Grant administration was known for corruption. But IMO the real
decline came in the 1960s. I mean, think of the difference between
Ike and Tricky Dicky.
>> >There are elections in dictatorships where the winner gets 100 percent
>> >of the vote.
>>
>> Most fascist countries hold sham elections where the government is
>> elected by less than 100% of the vote.
>
>Calling such countries fascist doesn't make them so.
Right. The fact that they match the profile Britt identified does.
>> >Democracies have to be continually vigilent against election fraud
>> >since there is a constant temptation for various factions to give
>> >themselves an edge by tinkering with the election process itself.
>>
>> Bingo. Like purging voters' lists of people likely to vote for the
>> other side.
>
>That would be the Democrats effort to purge the election from absentee
>military votes since they tend to vote Republican.
Lie. The Democrats made no effort to delete absentee military voters
from the voters' lists.
>> >In this country, election fraud is standard procedure of the
>> >Democratic Party. Democrats stuff ballot boxes. Democrats have dead people
>> >rise from their graves to vote. Democrats arrange for non-citizens to vote.
>>
>> While Republicans arrange for citizens to be denied their votes...
>
>Or rather, Republicans attempt to arrange for non-citizens to be
>denied a vote.
Nope. They simply removed citizens of racial minorities who were
likely to vote Democrat.
>> >> Do they seem familiar? Of course they do.
>> >
>> >What is familiar is the usual smears that liberals like to engage in.
>>
>> What is really familiar is the usual lies that fascist apologists like
>> to engage in.
>
>All one has to do is substitute "communist" for "fascist" to get the
>real situation.
ROTFL! You need to get over the demise of McCarthyism, Jim...
-- Roy L
Dave Simpson
> > You don't get laid much, do you? Try it. It might help you deal
> > with your anger.
> They call this an ad hominum argument. Smart leftists use it when they
> get desperate. Stupid lefties use nothing else.
Along with ad hominem, it is reasonable to suspect projection with
such people (a Freudian slip, indeed, in Michelle's case, is
possible). Then there are the smarter leftists who try to impress the
readers with a fancy use of words, while continuing to expose their
ignorance or contempt for the truth and for those who know and are
better than they are, as I've seen elsewhere than with Michelle here.
Dave Simpson
ElevenBravo
> >to the largest facist government in the history of the world - Nazi
> >Germany.
>
> Flat-out false, on two counts:
>
> 1) They do apply, and
> 2) The largest fascist government in history was Imperial Japan.
Funny, Mr. Britt wouldn't agree with you. His study of fascist
governments included the following: Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy,
Franco's Spain, Salazar's Portugal, Papadopoulos's Greece, Pinochet's
Chile, and Suharto's Indonesia. I don't see Imperial Japan on that
list. Maybe you should write Mr. Britt a letter and let him know how
misguided he was to not include Imperial Japan.
Or maybe you just don't know what the fuck you are talking about.
> >> 10. Labor Power is Suppressed
> >
> >Earth to Dr. Britt and other ill-informed leftists:
>
> The facts make it clear that you are far, _far_ less informed than Dr.
> Britt.
>
> >The official name
> >of the Nazis was the National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP).
> >The first political party that Hitler joined was the German Workers
> >Party, which eventually morphed into the Nazi Party. The majority of
> >the early propaganda appeals of the Nazi Party were specifically
> >directed at unions and common workers.
>
> And that is all _completely_irrelevant_ to the _fact_ that the Nazis,
> once in government, suppressed all independent labor union power. The
> uions became purely organs of the party and the government, not of the
> workers.
In my opinion, so did every facet of the state.
> >This "characteristic" is
> >completely untrue drivel.
>
> That is a flat, outright lie.
>
> >To be sure, unions eventually were
> >"absorbed" by the state after Hitler seized complete control, but so
> >was every other facet of society.
>
> Labor unions were, but not every other facet of society, liar. The
> curches were not, for one.
Liar? Since you profess to know about Nazi Germany, your ignorance
stuns me. Have you ever read any history of Nazi Germany? I would
direct you to pages 234-240 of William Shirer's "The Rise and Fall of
the Third Reich", which details the Nazi control of church. To
summarize for you, since you probably don't have a copy of the book on
hand:
On July 20th, 1933, Nazi Germany signed a concordat with the Vatican
which guaranteed freedom of the Catholic religion within the Reich.
Like all other agreements signed by Hitler, it was soon broken.
On July 30th, 1933, Nazi Germany dissolved the Catholic Youth League.
In the following years, thousands of priests, nuns, and leaders were
arrested. The leader of the Catholic Action, Erich Klasener, was
murdered during the "Night of the Long Knives". Numerous Catholic
publications were suppressed, and the sanctity of the confessional
booth was violated by the Gestapo.
With respect to the Protestants, the "German Christians" were lead by
Ludwig Muller who believed that any member of the church who had
Jewish ancestry should be sacked from the church. Muller supported
Hitler and in 1933 he was given the title of "Reich Bishop". This
group represented 3,000 out of 17,000 protestant pastors, but
represented a much larger portion of the Protestant population.
Those who opposed the views of Muller were called the "Congressional
Church". This was lead by Martin Niemoller. He was arrested for
opposing Hitler. Niemoller was sent to a concentration camp for 7
years where he was kept in solitary confinement. Many other
Confessional Church members suffered the same fate.
In 1936, the Reich Church was created. This did not have the Christian
cross as its symbol but the swastika. The Bible was replaced by "Mein
Kampf" which was placed on the altar. By it was a sword. Only invited
Nazis were allowed to give sermons in a Reich Church.
If you need more details of the Nazi control of the church, I would be
happy to oblige.
> >It wasn't a disdain for unions, it
> >was a maniacal quest for complete control.
>
> ?? So? These comments in no way counter the _fact_ that the Nazis
> supressed the German labor unions and rendered them virtually
> powerless.
>
> >> 11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
> >
> >Here he is SO WRONG it is funny.
>
> No, he is quite correct, and you are wrong.
>
> >First of all, a large portion of
> >Hitler's inner circle were artists of one sort or another.
>
> Garbage. Who was an artist, aside from Leni Riefenstahl the movie
> director (who was only on the periphery of the inner circle)? Hess?
> Himmler? Goebbels? Goering? Speer?
First of all, Riefenstahl wasn't a member of the inner circle. That
is laughable.
Speer was an architect (yes, that is considered the arts). Goebbels
was a published poet and author. Rosenberg (who you failed to
mention) was a published author and playwright, as well as a trained
architect. So, yes, many of Hitler's closest associates were
considered "artists"
> For extra credit, which of the above was it who said, "Whenever anyone
> mentions 'culture,' I reach for my revolver"?
This quote has been attributed to Goering, although no verifiable
documentation exists to support the claim that he actually said it.
> >Hitler himself was an artist,
> ?? ROTFL!! He was a _painter_. He supported himself painting
> people's _apartments_, not their _portraits_.
>
> >and felt that the protection of "German
> >Culture" was one of the most important facets of the Nazi agenda.
>
> He wanted to use culture for propaganda, certainly. But that just
> meant putting a social realist spin on some hoary Teutonic totems.
> It wasn't art.
OK, now I am sure that you are just ignorant. Simply do a search for
"Hitler Artist" on Google, and you can observe dozens of watercolor
works of Adolf Hitler. Hitler applied THREE TIMES to the Vienna
Academy of the Arts. He was turned down each time, not due to his
technical talent (he was a very good technical artist), but due to his
lack of experimental and emotive art. You are correct that he didn't
paint portraits. Hitler had no talent for the human form. But he was
completely accurate with respect to architectural elements, and his
Vienna paintings are incredibly detailed and beautiful. In each of
his rejections from the Academy, he was urged to take up architecture
as his true calling. He supported himself during his Vienna years
selling watercolor paintings of Vienna landmarks (these were sold by a
buddy who lived in the same "halfway house" as Hitler). It is a myth
that Hitler painted apartments to support himself. This myth was
promulgated by his half brother Alois, who claimed Hitler did this to
support himself and his sister while in Vienna. The truth is that his
sister, Paula, never was in Vienna with Hitler. Furthermore, the
historical works that I have read indicate that Hitler painted a
single room, an officers mess hall, during WW I. His commanding
officer asked him to pick a color that matched a painting of a German
soldier, and Hitler chose a shade of blue. This is the extent of his
"house" painting, at least according to most of his biographers. You
have fallen for a myth.
I think the crux of our disagreement is as follows: Britt claims that
Fascist governments have a disdain for the Arts. The truth is that
Fascist government have a disdain for the FREE EXPRESSION of the Arts.
In truth, as any historian of Nazi Germany is aware, the Nazis
worshipped culture and the Arts (even Goering, who was the most
maniacal with his quest for looted art treasure). However, any "Art"
that didn't fit their worldview was strictly "Verbotten". This
doesn't equal a disdain for the Arts. Instead, it is the disdain of
"free expression." The same could be applied to military strategy.
Hitler loved the military, but wouldn't accept the "free expression"
of contrarian views of military strategy. It isn't a disdain for the
arts, or the military, or the economy, per se. Rather, it is disdain
for any viewpoints that are contradictory to the Nazi paradigm.
In this respect, Britt is flat out wrong. And so are you.
> >Please, before you throw out this type of senseless drivel, read some
> >history to determine if it is really true.
>
> Back atcha, ignoramus.
>
> -- Roy L
You picked the wrong person to go toe to toe on Nazi history.
11B
ElevenBravo
your response is even more thorough than my own! He is a person of
limited knowledge who relies of leftist propagandistic platitudes to
support his belief system. Cheers from a fellow conservative
objectivist!
11B
neptune3
(ElevenBravo) wrote:
>> uions became purely organs of the party and the government, not of the
>> workers.
>
>In my opinion, so did every facet of the state.
>
But the government was not controlled by the money bag people. In
Democracy money talks. In the Fascist countries there was another
power that was above money. And it was not just for the rich or just
for the workers. It was for fairness and it was against class warfare.
In this excerpt from his memoirs General Leon Degrelle, former
leader of the Belgian contingent of the Waffen-SS, describes how
Adolf
Hitler gained the enthusiastic support of the working people of
Germany.
One of the first labor reforms to benefit the German workers
was the establishment of annual paid vacation. The Socialist French
Popular Front, in 1936, would make a show of having invented the
concept of paid vacation, and stingily at that, only one week per
year. But Adolf Hitler originated the idea, and two or three times as
generously, from the first month of his coming to power in 1933.
Every factory employee from then on would have the legal right
to a paid vacation. Until then, in Germany paid holidays where they
applied at all did not exceed four or five days, and nearly half the
younger workers had no leave entitlement at all. Hitler, on the other
hand, favored the younger workers. Vacations were not handed out
blindly, and the youngest workers were granted time off more
generously. It was a humane action; a young person has more need of
rest and fresh air for the development of his strength and vigor just
coming into maturity. Basic vacation time was twelve
days, and then from age 25 on it went up to 18 days. After ten years
with the company, workers got 21 days, three times what the French
socialists would grant the workers of their country in 1936.
These figures may have been surpassed in the more than half a
century since then, but in 1933 they far exceeded European norms. As
for overtime hours, they no longer were paid, as they were everywhere
else in Europe at that time, at just the regular hourly rate. The
work
day itself had been reduced to a tolerable norm of eight hours,
since
the forty-hour week as well, in Europe, was first initiated by
Hitler.
And beyond that legal limit, each additional hour had to be paid at a
considerably increased rate...
Dismissal of an employee was no longer left as before the the
sole discretion of the employer. In that era, workers' rights to job
security were non-existent. Hitler saw to it that those rights were
strictly spelled out. The employer had to announce any dismissal four
weeks in advance. The employee then had a period of up to two months
in which to lodge a protest. The dismissal could also be annulled by
the Honor of Work Tribunal. What was the Honor of Work Tribunal? Also
called the Tribunal of Social Honor, it was the third of the three
great elements or layers of protection and defense that were to the
benefit of every German worker. The first was the Council
of Trust. The second was the Labor Commission.
The Council of Trust was charged with attending to the
establishment and the development of a real community spirit between
management and labor. In any business enterprise, the Reich law
stated, the employer and head of the enterprise, the employees and
workers, personnel of the enterprise, shall work jointly towards the
goal of the enterprise and the common good of
the nation...
Thus from 1933 on, the German worker had a system of justice
at his disposal that was created especially for him and would
adjudicate all grave infractions of the social duties based on the
idea of the Aryan enterprise community. Examples of these violations
of social honor are cases where the employer, abusing his power,
displayed ill will towards his staff or impugned the honor of his
subordinates, cases where staff members threatened work harmony by
spiteful agitation; the publication by members of the Council of
confidential information regarding the enterprise which they
became cognizant of in the course of discharging their duties.
Thirteen Tribunes of Social Honor were established, corresponding
with
the thirteen commissions...
From then on the worker knew that exploitation of his physical
strength in bad faith or offending his honor would no longer be
allowed. He had to fulfill certain obligations to the community, but
they were obligations that applied to all members of the enterprise,
from the chief executive down to the messenger boy. Germany's workers
at last had clearly established social rights that were arbitrated by
a Labor Commission and enforced by a Tribunal of Honor. Although
effected in an atmosphere of justice and moderation, it was a
revolution.
This was only the end of 1933, and already the first effects
could be felt. The factories and shops large and small were reformed
or transformed in conformity with the strictest standards of
cleanliness and hygiene; the interior areas, so often dilapidated,
opened to light; playing fields constructed; rest areas made
available
where one could converse at one's ease and relax during rest periods;
employee cafeterias; proper dressing rooms.
With time, that is to say in three years, those achievements
would take on dimensions never before imagined; more than 2,000
factories refitted and beautified; 23,000 work premises modernized;
800 buildings designed exclusively for meetings; 1,200 playing
fields;
13,000 sanitary facilities with running water; 17,000 cafeterias.
Eight hundred departmental inspectors and 17,300 local inspectors
would foster and closely and continuously supervise these renovations
and installations.
The large industrial establishments moreover had been given
the obligation of preparing areas not only suitable for sports
activities of all kinds, but provided with swimming pools as well.
Germany had come a long way from the sinks for washing one's face and
the dead tired workers, grown old before their time, crammed into
squalid courtyards during work breaks.
In order to ensure the natural development of the working
class, physical education courses were instituted for the younger
workers; 8,000 such were organized. Technical training would be
equally emphasized, with the creation of hundreds of work schools,
technical courses and examinations of professional competence, and
competitive examinations for the best workers for which large prizes
were awarded.
To rejuvenate young and old alike, Hitler ordered that a
gigantic vacation organization for workers be set up. Hundreds of
thousands of workers would be able every summer to relax on and and
sea. Magnificent cruise ships would be built. Special trains would
carry vacationers to the mountains and to the seashore. The
locomotives that hauled the innumerable worker-tourists in
just a few years of travel in Germany would log a distance equivalent
to fifty-four times around the world!
The cost of these popular excursions was nearly insignificant,
thanks to greatly reduced rates authorized by the Reichsbank.
Didn't these reforms lack something? Were some of them flawed
by errors and blunders? It is possible. But what did a blunder amount
to alongside the immense gains?
That this transformation of the working class smacked of
authoritarianism? That's exactly right. But the German people were
sick and tired of socialism and anarchy. To feel commanded didn't
bother them a bit. In fact, people have always liked having a strong
man guide them. One thing for certain is that the turn of mind of the
working class, which was still almost two-thirds non-Nazi in 1933,
had
completely changed.
The Belgian author Marcel Laloire would note: "When you make
your way through the cities of Germany and go into the working-class
districts, go through the factories, the construction yards, you are
astonished to find so many workers on the job sporting the Hitler
insignia, to see so many flags with the Swastika, black on a bright
red background, in the most populous districts." The Labor Front that
Hitler imposed on all of the workers and employers of the Reich was
for the most part received with favor.
And already the steel spades of the sturdy young lads of the
National Labor Service could be seen gleaming along the highways. The
National Labor Service had been created by Hitler out of thin air to
bring together for a few months in absolute equality, and in the same
uniform, both the sons of millionaires and the sons of the poorest
families. All had to perform the same work and were subject to the
same discipline, even the same pleasures and the same physical and
moral development. On the same construction sites and in the same
living quarters, they had become conscious of their commonality, had
come to understand one another, and had swept away their
old prejudices of class and caste. After this hitch in the National
Labor Service they all began to live as comrades, the workers knowing
that the rich man's son was not a monster, and the young lad from the
wealthy family knowing that the worker's son had honor just
like any other young fellow who had been more generously
favored by birth. Social hatred was disappearing, and a socially
united people was being born.
Hitler could already go into factories, something no man of the
so-called Right before him would have risked doing, and hold forth to
the mob of workers, tens of thousands of them at a time, as in the
Siemens works. In contrast to the von Papens and other country
gentlemen, he might tell them, "In my youth I was a worker like you.
And in my heart of hearts, I have remained what I was then." In the
course of his twelve years in power, no incident ever occurred at any
factory Adolf Hitler ever visited. When Hitler was among the people,
he was at home, and he was received like the member of
the family who had been most successful.
NSWPP <NS...@worldnet.att.net>
HITLER'S SOCIAL REVOLUTION
ro...@telus.net
(ElevenBravo) wrote:
See my demolition of Jim's lies and ignorance.
Fool.
-- Roy L
ro...@telus.net
(ElevenBravo) wrote:
>> >I must point out that 2 of Mr. Britt's "characteristics" don't apply
>> >to the largest facist government in the history of the world - Nazi
>> >Germany.
>>
>> Flat-out false, on two counts:
>>
>> 1) They do apply, and
>> 2) The largest fascist government in history was Imperial Japan.
>
>Funny, Mr. Britt wouldn't agree with you.
What makes you think you can speak for him?
>His study of fascist
>governments included the following: Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy,
>Franco's Spain, Salazar's Portugal, Papadopoulos's Greece, Pinochet's
>Chile, and Suharto's Indonesia. I don't see Imperial Japan on that
>list.
You don't see a lot of other fascist regimes, either. Maybe because
there have been far too many for Britt to study them all. Ever think
of that? That he might not have had time or the means to study them
all? It might also have had to do with ease of access to primary
sources. Records of Japanese fascism are much harder to get, because
so much was burned in the War, and good translations are harder to do
from Japanese.
>Maybe you should write Mr. Britt a letter and let him know how
>misguided he was to not include Imperial Japan.
Maybe he could have included Japan. And Stroessner's Paraguay. And
dozens of others. But maybe he just had limited time and resources.
Ever think of that?
>Or maybe you just don't know what the fuck you are talking about.
That is unlikely, potty mouth.
>> >> 10. Labor Power is Suppressed
>> >
>> >Earth to Dr. Britt and other ill-informed leftists:
>>
>> The facts make it clear that you are far, _far_ less informed than Dr.
>> Britt.
>>
>> >The official name
>> >of the Nazis was the National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP).
>> >The first political party that Hitler joined was the German Workers
>> >Party, which eventually morphed into the Nazi Party. The majority of
>> >the early propaganda appeals of the Nazi Party were specifically
>> >directed at unions and common workers.
>>
>> And that is all _completely_irrelevant_ to the _fact_ that the Nazis,
>> once in government, suppressed all independent labor union power. The
>> uions became purely organs of the party and the government, not of the
>> workers.
>
>In my opinion, so did every facet of the state.
Which supports Britt's claim.
>> >To be sure, unions eventually were
>> >"absorbed" by the state after Hitler seized complete control, but so
>> >was every other facet of society.
>>
>> Labor unions were, but not every other facet of society, liar. The
>> curches were not, for one.
>
>Liar? Since you profess to know about Nazi Germany, your ignorance
>stuns me. Have you ever read any history of Nazi Germany? I would
>direct you to pages 234-240 of William Shirer's "The Rise and Fall of
>the Third Reich", which details the Nazi control of church. To
>summarize for you, since you probably don't have a copy of the book on
>hand:
>
>On July 20th, 1933, Nazi Germany signed a concordat with the Vatican
>which guaranteed freedom of the Catholic religion within the Reich.
>Like all other agreements signed by Hitler, it was soon broken.
>
>On July 30th, 1933, Nazi Germany dissolved the Catholic Youth League.
> In the following years, thousands of priests, nuns, and leaders were
>arrested. The leader of the Catholic Action, Erich Klasener, was
>murdered during the "Night of the Long Knives". Numerous Catholic
>publications were suppressed, and the sanctity of the confessional
>booth was violated by the Gestapo.
None of this supports the ludicrous claim that the Catholic church was
absorbed by the state. It was simply oppressed.
>With respect to the Protestants, the "German Christians" were lead by
>Ludwig Muller who believed that any member of the church who had
>Jewish ancestry should be sacked from the church. Muller supported
>Hitler and in 1933 he was given the title of "Reich Bishop". This
>group represented 3,000 out of 17,000 protestant pastors, but
>represented a much larger portion of the Protestant population.
>
>Those who opposed the views of Muller were called the "Congressional
>Church". This was lead by Martin Niemoller. He was arrested for
>opposing Hitler. Niemoller was sent to a concentration camp for 7
>years where he was kept in solitary confinement. Many other
>Confessional Church members suffered the same fate.
This all just makes clear that I was completely correct. Some
churches and church leaders supported Hitler. Others opposed him.
The latter were oppressed. But the churches were not absorbed by the
state apparatus the way the unions were.
>In 1936, the Reich Church was created. This did not have the Christian
>cross as its symbol but the swastika. The Bible was replaced by "Mein
>Kampf" which was placed on the altar. By it was a sword. Only invited
>Nazis were allowed to give sermons in a Reich Church.
A new religion. Not absorption by the state of the existing ones.
>> >> 11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
>> >
>> >Here he is SO WRONG it is funny.
>>
>> No, he is quite correct, and you are wrong.
>>
>> >First of all, a large portion of
>> >Hitler's inner circle were artists of one sort or another.
>>
>> Garbage. Who was an artist, aside from Leni Riefenstahl the movie
>> director (who was only on the periphery of the inner circle)? Hess?
>> Himmler? Goebbels? Goering? Speer?
>
>First of all, Riefenstahl wasn't a member of the inner circle.
I specifically said she was on the periphery, didn't I? I was just
trying to get an idea of how big you thought the "inner circle" was.
>Speer was an architect (yes, that is considered the arts).
Buildings -- especially government buildings and monuments -- are
necessary to the fascist vision. Art isn't.
>Goebbels
>was a published poet and author. Rosenberg (who you failed to
>mention)
Oh, for chrissakes. Am I supposed to telepathically divine who you
think constituted Hitler's "inner circle"? Who else do you think was
in it? And at what period?
>was a published author and playwright, as well as a trained
>architect. So, yes, many of Hitler's closest associates were
>considered "artists"
Come off it. They were mostly just like politicals anywhere: plenty
of politicians and senior government figures write books. That's what
politicals do: manipulate people with words. I agree it was unusual
for so many to have been architects, but that just arose from Hitler's
personal interest in it, not from any special feature of Naziism, let
alone fascism.
>> >and felt that the protection of "German
>> >Culture" was one of the most important facets of the Nazi agenda.
>>
>> He wanted to use culture for propaganda, certainly. But that just
>> meant putting a social realist spin on some hoary Teutonic totems.
>> It wasn't art.
>
>OK, now I am sure that you are just ignorant. Simply do a search for
>"Hitler Artist" on Google, and you can observe dozens of watercolor
>works of Adolf Hitler. Hitler applied THREE TIMES to the Vienna
>Academy of the Arts. He was turned down each time, not due to his
>technical talent (he was a very good technical artist),
More of a draftsman, by the look of it.
>but due to his
>lack of experimental and emotive art. You are correct that he didn't
>paint portraits. Hitler had no talent for the human form. But he was
>completely accurate with respect to architectural elements, and his
>Vienna paintings are incredibly detailed and beautiful. In each of
>his rejections from the Academy, he was urged to take up architecture
>as his true calling. He supported himself during his Vienna years
>selling watercolor paintings of Vienna landmarks (these were sold by a
>buddy who lived in the same "halfway house" as Hitler). It is a myth
>that Hitler painted apartments to support himself. This myth was
>promulgated by his half brother Alois, who claimed Hitler did this to
>support himself and his sister while in Vienna. The truth is that his
>sister, Paula, never was in Vienna with Hitler. Furthermore, the
>historical works that I have read indicate that Hitler painted a
>single room, an officers mess hall, during WW I. His commanding
>officer asked him to pick a color that matched a painting of a German
>soldier, and Hitler chose a shade of blue. This is the extent of his
>"house" painting, at least according to most of his biographers. You
>have fallen for a myth.
Thank you for the personal data on Hitler. However, it has very
little to do with the Nazis' handling of the arts.
>> >Hitler was obsessed with the arts. "To understand
>> >Nazism, one must first understand Wagner." Yeah, a political movement
>> >based on a the works of a classical composer must have a disdain for
>> >the arts.
>>
>> ??? He only picked Wagner because Wagner was a fanatical anti-Semite
>> and German nationalist as well as a great composer. And Hitler
>> dismissed virtually all music since Wagner as decadent. That _is_ a
>> disdain for art.
>
>I think the crux of our disagreement is as follows: Britt claims that
>Fascist governments have a disdain for the Arts. The truth is that
>Fascist government have a disdain for the FREE EXPRESSION of the Arts.
It's more a commitment to making the arts serve the regime. But that
goal in itself is disdainful of true art, which serves only to realize
the artist's vision.
> In truth, as any historian of Nazi Germany is aware, the Nazis
>worshipped culture and the Arts (even Goering, who was the most
>maniacal with his quest for looted art treasure).
It is true that they devoted a lot of effort to making culture and the
arts serve their purposes, from the imposing monumental architecture
and ubiquitous social realist posters to the incessant Wagner
festivals. But they were contemptuous of artists who did not go along
with the Nazi vision.
>However, any "Art"
>that didn't fit their worldview was strictly "Verbotten". This
>doesn't equal a disdain for the Arts. Instead, it is the disdain of
>"free expression."
It's more than that. You can see in Mein Kampf where Hitler railed on
and on about how the culture around him was dominated by decadence and
trash. The words he used did not merely express disdain for such
works, but outright disgust.
>In this respect, Britt is flat out wrong. And so are you.
We just disagree about what constitutes disdain for the arts.
>> >Please, before you throw out this type of senseless drivel, read some
>> >history to determine if it is really true.
>>
>> Back atcha, ignoramus.
>
>You picked the wrong person to go toe to toe on Nazi history.
I don't think so at all. You kindly corrected my one error: that
Hitler painted apartments for a living.
-- Roy L
ro...@telus.net
> They call this an ad hominum argument. Smart leftists use it when they
> get desperate. Stupid lefties use nothing else.
Look in the mirror, pal. Your constant baseless accusation that
anyone who disagrees with you is a socialist, communist, terrorist,
etc. are pure ad hominem. Deal with it.
-- Roy L
ElevenBravo
> >your response is even more thorough than my own! He is a person of
> >limited knowledge who relies of leftist propagandistic platitudes to
> >support his belief system. Cheers from a fellow conservative
> >objectivist!
>
> See my demolition of Jim's lies and ignorance.
>
> Fool.
>
> -- Roy L
See my demolition of your ill-informed post below. If you have any
questions, I would be happy to enlighten you. You are out of your
league with me, Roy.
11B
Jim Austin
> On 15 May 2003 15:23:21 -0700, b...@ix.netcom.com (Jim Austin) wrote:
>
> >ro...@telus.net wrote in message news:<3ec19bac...@news.telus.net>...
> >> On 12 May 2003 16:09:31 -0700, b...@ix.netcom.com (Jim Austin) wrote:
> >>
> >> >Harry Hope wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> http://www.rense.com/general37/fascism.htm
> >> >>
> >> >> The 14 Defining Characteristics Of Fascism
> >> >>
> >> >> 5-11-3
> >> >>
> >> >> Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler
> >> >> (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and
> >> >> several Latin American regimes.
> >> >
> >> >By which means Britt infers that only fascists oppose the liberal
> >> >agenda.
> >>
> >> An asinine non sequitur.
> >
> >This asshole doesn't know that a non sequitur is.
>
> Ah. Potty mouth is back...
Roy thinks we're talking about his culinary proclivities.
> >> >> Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:
> >> >>
> >> >> 1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make
> >> >> constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other
> >> >> paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on
> >> >> clothing and in public displays.
> >> >
> >> >Britt concludes that patriotism per se is fascist.
> >>
> >> As expected, you do not know the difference between patriotism and
> >> cheap, flag-waving jingoism.
> >
> >There is no difference. "Jingoism" is the liberal term for patriotism.
>
> Nope. Jingoism serves the government. Patriotism serves the country.
That's what liberals believe about patriotism.
Besides, Britt doesn't condemn jingoism. He condemns patriotism. He
considers it fascist to use "patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols,
songs..."
> >> >> 3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The
> >> >> people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to
> >> >> eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or
> >> >> religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists,
> >> >> etc.
> >> >
> >> >Britt concludes that opposition to communism and terrorism as fascist.
> >>
> >> An obvious lie.
> >
> >An arbitrary denial of the obvious.
> >
> >The statement comes from Britt's own words: "Identification of
> >Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause" wherein he includes
> >"communists" and "terrorists".
>
> Thanks for admitting you lied.
I made no such admission. But then Roy's reading comprehension was
never that good.
> Everyone reading this except you understands that "opposition to" is quite
> different from "identification of as unifying cause."
That means Britt and Roy believe that it is fascist to unifying people
to oppose communism and terrorism.
> >> >Thus to avoid the stigma of fascism, Britt would have us adopt a
> >> >tolerant and indulgent attitude toward communists and terrorists.
> >>
> >> Lie.
> >
> >Actually, that's not even a denial, just an expression of malice by
> >which Roy thinks he can blot out the real world.
No denial here.
> <yawn>
> >> >> 4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic
> >> >> problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of
> >> >> government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and
> >> >> military service are glamorized.
> >> >
> >> >Britt concludes that those not believing in unilateral disarmament are
> >> >fascist, that non-pacifists are fascists.
> >>
> >> Idiocy, with no relation to the previous statement.
> >
> >Again, this is just an expression of malice to deny the obvious.
> >
> >Britt listed "Supremacy of the Military" as a defining characteristic
> >of fascism. Thus liberals can throw this at anybody who thinks the
> >U.S. should have an adequate military.
Soy L, I mean, Roy L does not deny this, but instead he resorts to
insults. Indicates he knows he's wrong.
> More idiocy. You never tire of making a fool of yourself, do you?
>
> >Liberal readily accuse such people of wanting to give the military "a
> >disproportionate amount of government funding."
>
> Even disproportionate funding is not the same as supremacy.
Maybe not, but Britt uses "disproportionate amount of government
funding" as indicative of fascist tendencies.
> Liar.
Ho hum.
> >> >> 5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be
> >> >> almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional
> >> >> gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality
> >> >> are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian
> >> >> of the family institution.
> >> >
> >> >True. Sexism has been a feature of Nazism and fascism. It's also a
> >> >feature of Islamic theocracies.
> >
> >I forgot to mention how liberals give Islamic theocracies a free pass
> >for the worst sort of oppression of women.
>
> That lets me out, then...
Hopefully.
> >> And of the Bush administration.
> >
> >Arbitrary assertion.
>
> Threat to abortion rights, anyone...?
I favor abortion rights, but I don't accuse opponents thereof as
fascist.
> >> >> 6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled
> >> >> by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly
> >> >> controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople
> >> >> and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
> >> >
> >> >This is not unique to fascism. Communist countries nationalize the
> >> >media and do not permit any private news or opinion outlets.
> >>
> >> In fascist countries, wealthy private interests share control of the
> >> media with government, and use them as government propaganda conduits.
> >> Like Clear Channel radio.
> >
> >In Nazi German and Fascist Italy, government control of the media was
> >total and complete.
>
> Nope. There was significant private ownership, and especially in
> Italy, also private control. Thus, Ayn Rand's "We the Living" was
> made _and_shown_ in fascist Italy, though it was banned in Germany.
Only because the fascist officials were unaware that the
anti-communist theme of "We the Living" also applied to fascism.
But then, Britt and Roy believe that to be anti-communist is to be
fascist.
> >But then, this is Roy's attempt to paint the "fascist" label on that
> >portion of the media that agrees with the current administration.
>
> To slavishly agree with a fascist administration is by definition
> fascist.
Begs the question.
> >> >When liberals are in power, they try to use the "fairness doctrine" to
> >> >muzzle critics of liberal policies. It was only the elimination of the
> >> >fairness doctrine that made conservative talk shows possible.
> >>
> >> An outrageous lie, as William F Buckley's long-running "Firing Line"
> >> show on _PBS_ proves.
> >
> >1. Buckley's show was boring and couldn't make it on commercial TV.
>
> Irrelevant. And I didn't find it boring. But then, I know how to
> read...
Now if he could only comprehend.
> >2. Buckley has been referred to as an "establishment conservative" who
> >does not wonder far from what liberals will tolerate, and thus is not
> >a very good counter example.
>
> Thank you for admitting you lied.
No admission here, only wishfull thinking. That liberals tolerate
Buckley doesn't mean they tolerate everybody on the right.
Besides, Buckley's appearance on PBS stations occurred during the
Nixon administration.
> >> Remember Morton Downey, Jr?
> >
> >Yes. His show came on the air shortly after the FCC repealed the
> >"fairness doctrine" during the Reagan administration.
>
> And eloquently demonstrated the effects of that repeal: not a
> conservative voice, but thinly veiled fascist demagoguery.
By calling conservatives fascist, liberals feel better about trying to
get them off the air.
> >> >> 7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational
> >> >> tool by the government over the masses.
> >> >
> >> >Not a unique feature of fascism. Communist countries are very much
> >> >obsessed with national security.
> >> >
> >> >Britt, of course, tries to paint the fascist label on anyone not
> >> >completely indifferent to national security, who do not believe in
> >> >pacifism.
> >>
> >> Lie. Many non-fascist countries have significant militaries, and
> >> respected military and security policies: Britain, Australia, France
> >> and Switzerland come to mind.
> >
> >Only after those countries overcame domestic opposition that called
> >such policies "fascist".
There is no denial here. Instead:
> Thank you for admitting that you lied.
No admission here either. He cites Britain, Austrialia and France as
non-fascist countires with militaries. Such countries could only have
significant militaries after overcoming domestic opposition by the
very people who label as fascist those officials who supported their
militaries.
> >> >> 8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist
> >> >> nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool
> >> >> to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is
> >> >> common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the
> >> >> religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or
> >> >> actions.
> >> >
> >> >That would be characteristic of theocracy.
> >>
> >> And of fascism.
> >
> >Arbitrary assertion.
>
> Britt proved it by his research.
Britt didn't cite any research. If he had any supporting facts, he
kept it to himself.
> >> >This was definition not true of Nazi Germany.
> >>
> >> Lie.
> >
> >Not even a denial
>
> ??? _Lie_!
Stupid responses remain stupid even after endless repetition.
> >-- just another attempt to wipe out reality with an
> >expressin of malice.
>
> I proved you lied by identifying the facts of reality which you tried
> to deny. Deal with it.
Roy tries to elevate his malignant rage to the status of a fact of
reality that other people are supposed to deal with.
>
> >> >Adolf Hitler was an atheist.
> >>
> >> Whatever his personal views might have been, he often invoked God in
> >> support of his regime and its actions and policies.
> >
> >Hitler did not "use the most common religion in the nation as a tool
> >to manipulate public opinion."
>
> Lie.
Again, there's no denial here.
> >Much of the symbolism used by the Nazis came from Germany's pre-Christian
> >culture, not from Christianity.
>
> But he invoked God and Christianity regularly,...
Not according to the documentaries I've seen about Hitler.
> ...including blaming the Jews for Christ's crucifixion.
Repeating the blood libel doesn't indicate or implicate Christianity
per se.
> >> >> 9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business
> >> >> aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the
> >> >> government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial
> >> >> business/government relationship and power elite.
> >> >
> >> >No. Corporate power is controlled.
> >>
> >> That is simply a lie. Britt did the research and presented the facts.
> >
> >No. Britt only presented conclusions.
>
> Lie. The quoted material was just a synopsis of Britt's conclusions;
> his research was far more voluminous.
Which means Britt only presented conclusions.
Roy admitted that he lied when he called my statement about that a
lie.
> >> >Communist countries nationalize all business firms. In fascist
> >> >countries like Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany, business owners retain
> >> >title and still get to occupy their spacious offices, but all major
> >> >economic decision are made by the state, by various agencies of the
> >> >government.
> >>
> >> False. In fascist countries, government agencies are in fact
> >> controlled by the wealthy private interests they supposedly regulate.
> >
> >Arbitrary assertion that leftists like to make over and over again.
>
> It is fact.
No. It is just another left wing lie. Neither Hitler nor Mussolini
were controlled by any private interests.
> >Lefties think that if the government doesn't kill off all the wealthy
> >and nationalize their property, the wealthy must control the
> >government.
>
> Lie.
This doesn't even constitute a denial, just another of Roy's endless
expressions of malice.
> >> >> 10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor
> >> >> is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are
> >> >> either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
> >> >
> >> >Labor unions are eliminated in communist countries as well, and thus
> >> >is not a unique feature of fascism.
> >
> >No denial here.
>
> Of course not. One does not deny true premises when refuting a
> fallacious argument.
There's no refutation of any argument here.
> >> A concept's defining characteristics are not _individually_ unique to that
> >> concept, but in aggregate.
> >
> >In the aggregate, Britt only lists opposition to the liberal agenda
> >which he tries to define as fascist.
Roy does not deny that.
> Lie.
Anybody who read what Birtt wrote knows otherwise. Each of the 14
conclusions involved an item of the liberal agenda, whether it's
unilateral disarmament, increased regulation of industry,
subordination of U.S. interest to the U.N., appeasement of terrorists,
etc., Britt presents opposition thereto as an indication of fascism.
> >> >Britt tries to conclude that those not allowing labor unions to get
> >> >their way on all issues are fascist.
> >>
> >> Another outrageous lie.
> >
> >Roy thinks that anything he finds outrageous must be a lie, that his
> >own outrage is his answer to a world that doesn't immediately conform
> >to his whims.
There's no denial here. Rather he confirms my conclusion with:
> You lied. Obviously. Deal with it.
Calling somebody a liar doesn't make that person a liar. It's only an
expression of his petulant malice.
> >> >This is also becoming true in America as well. In America, the threat
> >> >comes from liberals and left wingers who conduct reigns of terror on
> >> >college campuses to purge them of politically incorrect thoughts.
> >>
> >> Outrageous nonsense.
> >
> >Roy's inability to make sense of the truth doesn't wipe out the truth.
> >
> >> It is the mass media which are virtually devoid of dissenting voices.
> >
> >A mass media dominated by liberals.
>
> ROTFL!!
No denial here either.
> >> >> 12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the
> >> >> police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people
> >> >> are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil
> >> >> liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police
> >> >> force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
> >> >
> >> >Dictatorships do clamp down on crime: fascist dictators, socialist
> >> >dictators, authoritarian dictators.
> >>
> >> Nope. Crime is rampant in many dictatorships.
> >
> >In weak dictatorships, yes.
No denial here. Just more insults.
> Thank you for admitting that you lied again.
Perhaps I should thank Roy for his admission of his inadequacy of
response.
Roy's impotent rage is inadequate.
Roy is inadequate.
> >> And the defining characteristic of fascism is not low crime, but an
> >> obsessive concern with punishment of criminals and aggrandizement of
> >> police power.
> >
> >Thus to be non-fascist, one must restrict police
>
> To their constitutional mandates. Right.
Begs the question of what the Constitution mandates. Liberal justices
and judges come up with all sorts of mandates not in the Constitution
or unknown to the authors of the Constitution.
> >and turn criminals free.
>
> When they have not been convicted, or have served their sentences.
> Right.
Liberal judges seize on any pretext or contrived technicality to turn
thugs loose. That's what liberal judges do.
> >> >> 13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always
> >> >> are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each
> >> >> other to government positions and use governmental power and authority
> >> >> to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in
> >> >> fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be
> >> >> appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
> >> >
> >> >Alas, that seems to be a feature of all governments.
> >>
> >> Nonsense. While all governments are imperfect, cronyism and
> >> corruption are far more prevalent in certain cases, especially fascist
> >> and socialist regimes. Some examples of governments notably low in
> >> cronyism and corruption: Denmark, Germany, the Netherlands,
> >> Switzerland, Singapore, Australia, and New Zealand.
> >
> >I'll have to check it out sometime.
>
> Why bother? The facts don't matter to you, anyway.
Roy is frustrated that I don't consider his expressions of malice as
facts worthy of response.
> >> The USA was pretty clean until the Johnson and Nixon administrations.
> >
> >There was plenty of corruption in the Harding administration and
> >croynism in the Truman administration.
>
> It was never perfect, of course, right from the beginning. Even the
> Grant administration was known for corruption. But IMO the real
> decline came in the 1960s. I mean, think of the difference between
> Ike and Tricky Dicky.
Dicky was condemned by a liberal media that looked the other way at
similar offenses of previous administrations.
> >> >There are elections in dictatorships where the winner gets 100 percent
> >> >of the vote.
> >>
> >> Most fascist countries hold sham elections where the government is
> >> elected by less than 100% of the vote.
> >
> >Calling such countries fascist doesn't make them so.
>
> Right. The fact that they match the profile Britt identified does.
No. They only indicate non-liberal countries.
> >> >Democracies have to be continually vigilent against election fraud
> >> >since there is a constant temptation for various factions to give
> >> >themselves an edge by tinkering with the election process itself.
> >>
> >> Bingo. Like purging voters' lists of people likely to vote for the
> >> other side.
> >
> >That would be the Democrats effort to purge the election from absentee
> >military votes since they tend to vote Republican.
>
> Lie. The Democrats made no effort to delete absentee military voters
> from the voters' lists.
No. The Democrats tried to throw out the votes from absentee military
voters, to keep such votes from being counted.
> >> >In this country, election fraud is standard procedure of the
> >> >Democratic Party. Democrats stuff ballot boxes. Democrats have dead
> >> >people rise from their graves to vote. Democrats arrange for non-citizens
> >> >to vote.
There's definitly no denial here.
> >> While Republicans arrange for citizens to be denied their votes...
> >
> >Or rather, Republicans attempt to arrange for non-citizens to be
> >denied a vote.
>
> Nope. They simply removed citizens of racial minorities who were
> likely to vote Democrat.
This is how liberals characterize attempts to enforce elections laws.
> >> >> Do they seem familiar? Of course they do.
> >> >
> >> >What is familiar is the usual smears that liberals like to engage in.
> >>
> >> What is really familiar is the usual lies that fascist apologists like
> >> to engage in.
> >
> >All one has to do is substitute "communist" for "fascist" to get the
> >real situation.
There is no denial here.
> ROTFL! You need to get over the demise of McCarthyism, Jim...
Liberals regard anti-communism per se as McCarthyism; that is, when
they're not calling it fascist.
Jim Austin
I never so accused anyone of being socialist, etc. just for
disagreeing with me.
But then, Roy was never great at reading comprehension. Rather, he
likes to read stuff into statements he doesn't like.