received "work activity report"
Karen
I recently received a "Work Activity Report" form SSA-821 BK and am
quite alarmed and upset. I've been on SSD for over eight years now and
am 59 years old with a long psychiatric history of hospitalizations and
treatments which began with a total breakdown when I was 51. Currently
in therapy four times a week (using Medicare as payment) with a CSW who
specializes in trauma as my diagnosis is "chronic and severe Complex
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder" from many years of childhood abuse that
seem to have erupted in my face seven years ago.
I've used up the trial work period, getting fired from all of the jobs,
sometimes in less than a week, due to problems in getting along with
co-workers. Have gone to vocational rehab but all they could do is
refer me to another organization as few want to work with me there due
to my past difficulties in getting along with managers and co-workers.
To say the least, there were inappropriate behaviors and responses to
the work environment. Over the past few years, since using up the TWP
I've had only part time jobs and even those I've somehow manage to be
terminated from but the salary has always been under SSD's income
ceiling, sometimes well below even though some of the jobs were of a
technical nature (I've done computer work in the past), I cannot work
full time or it almost a surety that "bad" things happen both in the
workplace and to my mental health.
I'm not on medication both due to the fact that I cannot afford them and
none of them have any effect on my condition after a few months or so.
Even combinations of meds fail to work over time and all of the
insomnia, "attitude", depressions, suicidal feelings, intense self
hatred and feelings of insecurity return and then all falls apart. I do
have a part time job currently with very nice people but as my therapist
has said, this is one of the greatest challenges in my life as I have
difficulty in accepting people being "nice" to me and am trying for dear
life to hold on to it. It's clerical and the salary is also close to,
but beneath the SGA.
Should I be worried about losing my SSD? This is what I'm able to eat
and pay huge credit card debt with (past compulsive spending was also
part of my disorder) and because my situation is so severe, and so
unique, my therapist sees me for just what Medicare pays with no co
payment required. She is a blessing and I'm working hard with her to
get some sanity in my life as at 59, there is little left but death or
becoming more stable.
Forgive me but right now my anxiety level is through the roof over this
"Work Activity Report".
Thanks for any help.
Karen
BroJack
>Hello,
>
>I recently received a "Work Activity Report" form SSA-821 BK and am
>quite alarmed and upset.
Go to this URL and scroll:
http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10095.html
__________________
Excerpt from URL:
Part 2—Social Security work incentives at a glance
Trial work period—The trial work period allows you to test your
ability to work for at least nine months. During your trial work
period you will receive your full Social Security benefits regardless
of how much you are earning. The trial work period continues until you
have worked nine months within a 60-month period.
Extended period of eligibility—After your trial work period, you have
36 months during which you can work and still receive benefits for any
month your earnings are not “substantial.” In 2004, earnings of $810
or more ($1,350 if you are blind) are considered substantial. No new
application or disability decision is needed for you to receive a
Social Security disability benefit during this period.
Quick benefit restart—After your benefits stop because your earnings
are substantial, you have five years during which you may ask us to
start your benefits immediately if you find yourself unable to
continue working because of your condition. You will not have to file
a new disability application and you will not have to wait for your
benefits to start while your medical condition is being reviewed to
make sure you are still disabled.
Continuation of Medicare—If your Social Security disability benefits
stop because of your earnings, but you are still disabled, your free
Medicare Part A coverage will continue for at least 7½ years after the
nine-month trial work period. After that, you can buy Medicare Part A
coverage by paying a monthly premium.
[snip]
Mosconilike spirit BOO !
----------->>>>> Best wishes to you.
ohmy, quite an "unstable" life, huh?
Or in another way, quite adventurous!
You have dabbled in alot of different work kinds.
59? ..not long till you can be on "real" social security.
hang on.....you are working part-time?..doing better
than me, Karen......anxiousness?...maybe a few hours in
a park somewhere each day...or a few minutes?
Sounds like you have some kind of stable living
arrangement, though.....are you able to donate
anything ever?......it feels great..
Worried about losing S.S.D.? i don't know,
doesn't sound like you would to me..but there
are many others here that can give their insight.
Good luck.
Karen
didn't know it was all on just one page. According to this I'm "in the
clear" as I kept very accurate records of my work in an Excel worksheet
that gave me gross totals for each month specifically set up for each
hourly wage I earned so at least I am able to give them very accurate
information going back the three years or so that they are asking for.
I'm still nervous though, enough to cause my OCD to go sky high with
"checking" which I do when anxiety levels reach a high. My therapist
told me that she is experience writing reports for SSD and she also said
that I should not worry about being thrown off until I am ready to
accept a full time job. Her official diagnosis of me is "dissociative
identity disorder" which is probably more destructive to daily living
than Complex PTSD. Regardless of my inability to function well at
anything full time, I'm still nervous about anything from SSA.
Karen
Karen
(below)
>
> ----------->>>>> Best wishes to you.
> ohmy, quite an "unstable" life, huh?
> Or in another way, quite adventurous!
> You have dabbled in alot of different work kinds.
> 59? ..not long till you can be on "real" social security.
> hang on.....you are working part-time?..doing better
> than me, Karen......anxiousness?...maybe a few hours in
> a park somewhere each day...or a few minutes?
> Sounds like you have some kind of stable living
> arrangement, though.....are you able to donate
> anything ever?......it feels great..
> Worried about losing S.S.D.? i don't know,
> doesn't sound like you would to me..but there
> are many others here that can give their insight.
> Good luck.
Thanks for the "Good luck". I don't see myself as "adventurous" at all,
just trying to survive by my wits and since I spend most of my time
alone devote a lot of time to leaning things such as new technologies
(at least as much as I can teach myself), writing, and doing other
little projects that I assign to myself. Sorry to hear that you are not
doing as well. Perhaps someday you will be able to do something, even
minimal. Start very small and the rest will follow if it is to be.
Donating? I can't donate money but recently took a course to be a
domestic violence/rape crisis advocate at the local women's center and
hopefully will not be triggered so much as to be prevented from helping
others in traumatic situations. As I know what the torment and pain are
like it would be good if I could use some of my empathy and experience
to do some good in the world for others.
But yes, I'm concerned about losing my SSD. I wish that I could work
full time and hate having to always be so broke that I can't afford a
prescription or much needed medical care. I have physical things
happening to me that I don't do anything about because another bill will
break me in two.
Stay well and again thanks.
Karen
Karen
BroJack wrote:
> Go to this URL and scroll:
>
> http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10095.html
>
> __________________
>
> Excerpt from URL:
>
> Part 2—Social Security work incentives at a glance
> Trial work period—The trial work period allows you to test your
> ability to work for at least nine months. During your trial work
> period you will receive your full Social Security benefits regardless
> of how much you are earning. The trial work period continues until you
> have worked nine months within a 60-month period.
>
> Extended period of eligibility—After your trial work period, you have
> 36 months during which you can work and still receive benefits for any
> month your earnings are not “substantial.” In 2004, earnings of $810
> or more ($1,350 if you are blind) are considered substantial. No new
> application or disability decision is needed for you to receive a
> Social Security disability benefit during this period.
>
Does this mean that if I'm over the 36 month time frame and I'm
continuing to earn money, but beneath the SGA, that I will be considered
as "working" and not disabled?
My therapist who I've been seeing for close to a year now 4x a week told
me that there is no way that I'm capable of performing a full time job
without having a major breakdown, or worse (I become emotionally
"flooded" a lot and with that goes suicidal feelings and in the past
attempted to act on them, though not in the past year).
I'm just terrified of losing benefits now that I've finally found a
therapist whom I trust and have started to work on extremely deep and
painful issues with. Working on them frequently even interferes with my
part-time job causing me to leave early due to the anger/rage emotions
which I don't want to show, or hurt anyone inadvertently by irrational
comments.
What happens after the 36 months? Is having *any* employment considered
that you are alright to hold a job with SGA; in my case full time work.
Karen
BroJack
If you exceed the $810, whether full or part-time, during the 36 mo.
period, benefits cease but you don't need to file a new application
when earnings drop below SGA. If you exceed $810 after the 36 mo.
period, benefits cease and you generally need to file a new
application when benefits drop below SGA, but even here you have 5
years to request benefit restart without filing. They may or may not
grant the request.
But if you stay under SGA, whether full or part-time, your entitlement
continues, and regardless of whether before or after the 36 mo.
period, assuming you still satisfy the medical requirements.
Jack
Karen
Their wording "after" the 36 month period had me concerned. With my
psychiatric history and diagnosis, as well as the time and frequency of
therapy I don't assume that I'll have a problem continuing. My
therapist told me that she if familiar with what SSD wants and that I
should have no problem with them due to my condition.
I really don't see how they can just toss a 59 year old who has been on
SSD for 8+ years off who has had little improvement and multiple
hospitalizations for a psych illness that now seems to have a far more
serious diagnosis than when I first qualified. It was major depression
over 8 years ago and now it's that plus dissociative identity disorder
and PTSD. As much as I need the SSD to pay my rent, I truly wish that I
were sane enough to work full time and earn more money. I miss those
days when I could sleep more than an hour or so a night, didn't cry at
the drop of a hat, and knew what was acceptable to do or say to a
co-worker, not to mention constant feelings of wanting death to take me.
Karen
Rick
>
> Thanks BroJack,
>
> Their wording "after" the 36 month period had me concerned. With my
> psychiatric history and diagnosis, as well as the time and frequency of
> therapy I don't assume that I'll have a problem continuing. My
> therapist told me that she if familiar with what SSD wants and that I
> should have no problem with them due to my condition.
>
> I really don't see how they can just toss a 59 year old who has been on
> SSD for 8+ years off who has had little improvement and multiple
> hospitalizations for a psych illness that now seems to have a far more
> serious diagnosis than when I first qualified. It was major depression
> over 8 years ago and now it's that plus dissociative identity disorder
> and PTSD. As much as I need the SSD to pay my rent, I truly wish that I
> were sane enough to work full time and earn more money. I miss those
> days when I could sleep more than an hour or so a night, didn't cry at
> the drop of a hat, and knew what was acceptable to do or say to a
> co-worker, not to mention constant feelings of wanting death to take me.
>
> Karen
Hi Karen
My take on it is that you need to be more concerned with the "exceed
the $810" issue, rather than if you exceeded that amount after the
36 month period. From what BroJack is saying earning over that
amount before or after the 36 month period could be grounds for
cessation of benefits.
At this point, have you gone over any work records you have - pay
stubs, etc. *and* possible deductions as well to see where you stand
on the financial numbers? If everything stays below that majic
number of $810.00 for all months in question you shouldn't have
anything to be concerned with.
Rick
Bro Jack
1) Show that you have medically improved.
2) Show that such improvement relates to the ability to work.
3) Show that you're able to engage in SGA.
When your first file, they need only to show #3.
Also, they're required to give extra consideration to someone who has
been disabled for 7 years and is 50 years of age. Such people carry
an extra burden when trying to re-enter the workplace.
Like almost everyone receiving SSD, you would give it up in a
heartbeat in exchange for good health and the ability to work full
time.
Jack
______________
Karen
>
> Hi Karen
>
> My take on it is that you need to be more concerned with the "exceed
> the $810" issue, rather than if you exceeded that amount after the
> 36 month period. From what BroJack is saying earning over that
> amount before or after the 36 month period could be grounds for
> cessation of benefits.
>
> At this point, have you gone over any work records you have - pay
> stubs, etc. *and* possible deductions as well to see where you stand
> on the financial numbers? If everything stays below that majic
> number of $810.00 for all months in question you shouldn't have
> anything to be concerned with.
>
> Rick
>
Hi Rick,
The only time I exceeded the $810 (or what it was in years past) limit
is during a trial work period. Those jobs came and went very fast
unfortunately. Terminations. I keep very accurate records of work in
an Excel spreadsheet which is broken down on a monthly basis and
computes my gross income. Found it on the Internet a few years ago and
it's done me very well. Simple when examined, The total "cell"
multiplies the hours x 60 and then adds the minutes. Then the minutes
are multiplied by the salary "per minute" which gives the gross amount
so with this I always manage to stay below the limit. Of course there
are always the times when I've been terminated and don't have to be
concerned with this but also don't have any money to buy food
with either.
So although it was a drudge to give them "month by month" figures on my
salary over the past three years, at least I didn't have to go searching
for pay stubs etc. for the information. I also made a long list of all
the "mind" doctors/specialists I've seen along with hospitalizations
over the past 8 or so years. Everything is documented thoroughly. All
this was learned in the years before my breakdown as I worked as a
Systems Analyst where documentation and accuracy were essential. I'm
also a "perfectionist" (another diagnosis, sigh) and that too comes into
play.
I also worked very closely with a woman in the local SSD office
concerning all of my work to make sure that things were done correctly
and according to their rules. Unfortunately she is now gone but I've
taken to heart her advice in being honest about things, staying below
the limits, and seeking treatment when I was able to afford it.
The only thing I was never aware of, and probably will never take
advantage of, is that any medications that help me to actually get out
of the house and into *any* social situation including work, have never
been taken into consideration. Perhaps I should but I'm not one to make
any waves with the SSA.
Thanks for your reassurance though.
Karen
COVA BPAO Project
news:10flt02...@corp.supernews.com:
Hello Karen,
We are a federally-funded Benefits Planning, Assistance, and Outreach
(BPAO) Project specializing in assisting individuals to integrate their
benefits programs (SSDI, SSI, Medicare, Medicaid, Food Stamps, Housing &
Utility Programs, etc.) with employment. This service is FREE.
You can find your local BPAO agency here:
http://www.ssa.gov/work/ServiceProviders/BPAODirectory.html
Your local agency can put you in contact with the Work Incentives Liaison
(WIL) for your local SSA office, who deals specifically with these issues.
I would agree with other posters here that based upon the information
you've provided things should be OK.
Even if there was work above SGA after the TWP it would likely qualify as
an Unsuccessful Work Attempt (UWA) if (1) the work was of less than six
months duration, and (2) work was stopped or reduced below SGA due to your
impairment or removal of special conditions related to your impairment that
were essential to the performance of your work. Earnings during a UWA are
not considered in making an SGA decision. Your local BPAO can assist you
with this item.
But in no case are you going to be summarily terminated and you have full
appeal rights.
I hope this information has been of help to you. Please feel free to
contact me any questions you may have.
Sincerely,
John Hartman
COVA/BPAO Project
Southern Ohio
BroJack
<jhartman...@cova.org> wrote:
>Even if there was work above SGA after the TWP it would likely qualify as
>an Unsuccessful Work Attempt (UWA) if (1) the work was of less than six
>months duration, and (2) work was stopped or reduced below SGA due to your
>impairment or removal of special conditions related to your impairment that
>were essential to the performance of your work. Earnings during a UWA are
>not considered in making an SGA decision. Your local BPAO can assist you
>with this item.
http://policy.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0411010210
DI 11010.210 Discontinuance or Reduction of Work: Unsuccessful Work
Attempt
(snip)
E. When the UWA Policy Is Applicable
The UWA policy explained in this section is to be used in initial
disability cases. It is also to be used in continuing disability cases
in determining whether, because of work activity, disability continues
or ceases. However, the UWA criteria do not apply in determining
whether payment should be made for a particular month during the
reentitlement period after disability has been ceased because of SGA.
Karen
> If you're not working at SGA levels, they have to
>
> 1) Show that you have medically improved.
>
> 2) Show that such improvement relates to the ability to work.
>
> 3) Show that you're able to engage in SGA.
>
> When your first file, they need only to show #3.
>
> Also, they're required to give extra consideration to someone who has
> been disabled for 7 years and is 50 years of age. Such people carry
> an extra burden when trying to re-enter the workplace.
>
> Like almost everyone receiving SSD, you would give it up in a
> heartbeat in exchange for good health and the ability to work full
> time.
>
> Jack
Jack,
Yes, I'd exchange this hell in a "heartbeat" to feel better and be able
to work full time and actually work my way out of debt and maybe even
afford a take out meal once in a while instead of the cheap food that I
exist on.
My therapist, who I've almost been with a year 4x a week, told me
yesterday that I shouldn't worry at all about this. My dx is DID/PTSD
and she has a lot of experience with SSA/SSD even though she's not a
doctor but a CSW-R. She's been in practice specializing in trauma for
over 30 years now so hopefully she's right. She knows that I have major
problems even holding on to a part time job in the most ideal of
circumstances. The people at my current position, in a private house,
are the most compassionate people one would ever want to work for. My
immediate manager (a two woman office) is also a survivor as are close
relatives of the business owners, so they have an idea of what goes on
in my mind, the triggers, the constant emotional switching from joy to
terror. When they thought I had a stroke (it was really a dissociative
episode) my manager drove 20 miles at 1 a.m. to take me to the hospital.
The owners are footing the bills over what Medicare pays. And in this
rather ideal situation I STILL HAVE MAJOR PROBLEMS IN DEALING WITH THEM.
This is horrible. These people really *like* me and I don't trust
them. So yes, I wish I were rid of this curse. At least when there
though I do the work but sadly find it easier to work at home, alone.
Karen
Karen
John,
Thank you for the advice and contact information. Unfortunately I have
major trust issues, even with organizations that are supposed to help
me. I did contact through my local vocational rehab office an org who
will give me guidance on "how to keep" my current job. My therp advised
me to warn them though that the relationship might not work out due to
rage and trust issues, primarily trust. I've been with my current therp
almost a year now, 4x a week, and I still have problems in trusting her
with a lot of things. Everyone is out to hurt me, even when they are
not. I hate being like this but can't remove any of the defenses.
Maybe by the end of my life something positive will happen.
Karen