SSDI View of Stock or Forex Trading
StartNow
What activities do they consider "Investment income" VS. "earned
income. Anywhere to find plain English descriptions?
Thanks for help. I am on sensory overload from searching.
Jack
wrote:
For SSDI purposes (not SSI), SSA is concerned with your activity as an
employee or as a self-employed individual. If you are some sort of
broker as someone's employee or are in the business or trade as a
self-employed broker, you have to notify SSA as the activity may be
SGA. If you don't fit either of these definitions, the amt. of your
earned income is irrelevant.
_______
https://s044a90.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0410501001!opendocument
DI 10501.001 Meaning of SGA and Scope of Subchapter
_______
http://ftp.ssa.gov/OP_Home/cfr20/404/404-1588.htm
§404.1588 Your responsibility to tell us of events that may change
your disability status.
doubl...@gmail.com
been doing some self study and training for day trading in the stock
market. I would not be an employee of any kind and I wouldn't fit the
legal description of a home business/self employed. Day trading
obviously means you are not holding a stock any longer than the
business day so reporting your trading habits would be a fairly
tedious and seemingly pointless process.
My fear is that in my trading account would be more than $2000 which
would violate my SSI limit of assets and the goal of my day trading is
to make an average of $200 a day which would blow the SSDI limit of
income out of the water. My goal is to make enough of an income to no
longer need SSI and SSDI services but in case this venture does not
work out I don't want to interrupt my current plan or hurt myself in
the future.
I read DI 10501.001 Meaning of SGA and Scope of Subchapter but it
seems awful broad. I read on another forum that income from lottery
and gambling winnings are not subject to count toward SSDI, is this
true? On that same post it mentioned that income gained from buying
and selling of stocks falls under the same category but holding the
stock its self - I would assume would count as a personal asset.
Am I way off here?
Thanks very much for the information!
Jack
>I've been thinking about this also over the last couple months as I've
>been doing some self study and training for day trading in the stock
>market. I would not be an employee of any kind and I wouldn't fit the
>legal description of a home business/self employed. Day trading
>obviously means you are not holding a stock any longer than the
>business day so reporting your trading habits would be a fairly
>tedious and seemingly pointless process.
>
>My fear is that in my trading account would be more than $2000 which
>would violate my SSI limit of assets and the goal of my day trading is
>to make an average of $200 a day which would blow the SSDI limit of
>income out of the water. My goal is to make enough of an income to no
>longer need SSI and SSDI services but in case this venture does not
>work out I don't want to interrupt my current plan or hurt myself in
>the future.
>
>I read DI 10501.001 Meaning of SGA and Scope of Subchapter but it
>seems awful broad. I read on another forum that income from lottery
>and gambling winnings are not subject to count toward SSDI, is this
>true?
True for SSDI purposes.
For SSDI purposes. if your income is reported on the 1040 as other
income, SSA isn't interested. If your income is reported on Schedule
D and you are not an employee or self-employed, SSA isn't interested.
Also, for SSDI purposes, SSA doesn't care about your assets. LBJ and
several movie stars drew SSDI.
_______
http://www.socialsecurity.gov/pubs/10153.html#6
(...)
If you work while receiving disability payments
You should tell us if you take a job or become self-employed, no
matter how little you earn. (snip)
(...)
>On that same post it mentioned that income gained from buying
>and selling of stocks falls under the same category but holding the
>stock its self - I would assume would count as a personal asset.
Note the differences between SSI and SSDI.
Under the SSI program, all changes in income and/or resources must be
reported. Much of it will be counted against your limit. Yes, stock
is a countable resource for SSI purposes.
See this discussion on resources
http://www.socialsecurity.gov/ssi/text-resources-ussi.htm
________
Under SSDI, they are only interested in your activities as an employee
or self-employed person. If you file a SE return, IRS will share it
with SSA and if you have been on the SSDI rolls less than 24 months,
you could be found engaging in SGA even if you don't make any net
earnings. In those cases, they assess the efforts you put into your
business.
https://s044a90.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0410510010!opendocument
DI 10510.010 SGA Criteria in Self-Employment
_______________
For SSDI purposes, SSA doesn't care about the amt. of stock you hold.
Jack
>On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 19:45:07 GMT, in alt.social-security-disability nos...@nospam.home (Jack) wrote:
>
>>LBJ and
>>several movie stars drew SSDI.
>>_______
>
>
>Mc Cain draws SSDI
So the moonbats in the blogosphere would have us believe.
He does draw a 100% disability pension from the US Navy. Almost $60K
in 2007.
Let me put it this way, if he currently draws SSDIB, he shouldn't be.
His earnings are far above the SGA level.
MikeGibson
"Latoya" <Lat...@example.com> wrote in message
news:tb20s4la40uaec10d...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:27:51 GMT, in alt.social-security-disability
>
>>On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:10:29 -0700, Latoya <Lat...@example.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 19:45:07 GMT, in alt.social-security-disability
>>>nos...@nospam.home (Jack) wrote:
>>>
>>>>LBJ and
>>>>several movie stars drew SSDI.
>>>>_______
>>>
>>>
>>>Mc Cain draws SSDI
>>
>>So the moonbats in the blogosphere would have us believe.
>>
>>He does draw a 100% disability pension from the US Navy. Almost
>>$60K
>>in 2007.
>>
>>Let me put it this way, if he currently draws SSDIB, he shouldn't
>>be.
>>His earnings are far above the SGA level.
>
SSA ( regular Social Security due to age ) and 100% U.S.N. disability
MikeGibson
>
>>On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:10:29 -0700, Latoya <Lat...@example.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 19:45:07 GMT, in alt.social-security-disability
>>>nos...@nospam.home (Jack) wrote:
>>>
>>>>LBJ and
>>>>several movie stars drew SSDI.
>>>>_______
>>>
>>>
>>>Mc Cain draws SSDI
>>
>>So the moonbats in the blogosphere would have us believe.
>>
>>He does draw a 100% disability pension from the US Navy. Almost
>>$60K
>>in 2007.
>>
>>Let me put it this way, if he currently draws SSDIB, he shouldn't
>>be.
>>His earnings are far above the SGA level.
>
Cheryl
"Jack" <nos...@nospam.home> wrote in message
news:49c006d3...@nntp.aioe.org...
If he's drawing retirement benefits, isn't there a ceiling on what he can
earn and still draw full retirement benefits? I'm also puzzled as to how he
can draw 100% VA disability and also draw full retirement benefits when this
isn't feasible for those on SSDI once they reach retirement age.
The whole triple dip--wages, 100% VA disability, and SSA retirement--boggles
my mind more than a little.
Cheryl
"Cheryl" <no_emai...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%DWvl.24976$0E.1...@newsfe15.iad...
I need to correct this to... ceiling on what he can earn *via employment*
and still draw...
Jack
<no_emai...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>"Jack" <nos...@nospam.home> wrote in message
>news:49c006d3...@nntp.aioe.org...
>> On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:10:29 -0700, Latoya <Lat...@example.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 19:45:07 GMT, in alt.social-security-disability
>>>nos...@nospam.home (Jack) wrote:
>>>
>>>>LBJ and
>>>>several movie stars drew SSDI.
>>>>_______
>>>
>>>
>>>Mc Cain draws SSDI
>>
>> So the moonbats in the blogosphere would have us believe.
>>
>> He does draw a 100% disability pension from the US Navy. Almost $60K
>> in 2007.
>>
>> Let me put it this way, if he currently draws SSDIB, he shouldn't be.
>> His earnings are far above the SGA level.
>
>If he's drawing retirement benefits, isn't there a ceiling on what he can
>earn and still draw full retirement benefits?
If he started drawing SS retirement beginning with the month he
reached full retirement age or later, his earnings from work activity
are exempt from work deductions regardless of the amt. he earns This
provision is meant to encourage to keep older people working so that
they can keep contributing to FICA.
Under full retirement age
NOTE: One dollar in benefits will be withheld for every $2 in earnings
2009
$14,160/yr. ($1,180/mo.)
_______
The year an individual reaches full retirement age
NOTE: Applies only to earnings for months prior to attaining full
retirement age. One dollar in benefits will be withheld for every $3
in earnings above the limit.
2009
$37,680/yr. ($3,140/mo.)
________
There is no limit on earnings beginning the month an individual
attains full retirement age.
_________
>I'm also puzzled as to how he
>can draw 100% VA disability and also draw full retirement benefits when this
>isn't feasible for those on SSDI once they reach retirement age.
>
>The whole triple dip--wages, 100% VA disability, and SSA retirement--boggles
>my mind more than a little.
Several points:
It's not really a triple dip as he is still working and earning wages.
I believe that he is receiving a disability pension from the military,
in his case, the Navy, rather than VA disability. Each of those
programs has different rules. E.g., I received service-connected VA
disability and worked without offset. If it's service-connected, VA
doesn't care if you're working. I don't know the rules for the
military disability pensions as to what they offset.
If a person is getting SSDI, it will be offset by SSA if he is also
receiving another disability benefit based on his employment with a
Federal, State, or local govt. agency. VA benefits are an exception.
I'm not sure whether a military disability pension is also an
exception. In any event, McCain is getting SS retirement benefits.
SSA doesn't offset their retirement benefits based on other pensions.
Jack
<no_emai...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I'm also puzzled as to how he
>can draw 100% VA disability and also draw full retirement benefits when this
>isn't feasible for those on SSDI once they reach retirement age.
As stated earlier, not sure that he's drawing VA.
At any rate VA disability covers service-connected disability 0% to
100% and *non*-service-connected disability which must be 100% and
there are earnings limitations, much like SSI but the tolerances are
higher. For the service-connected disability, the DVA doesn't care
how much your earn.
MikeGibson
Actually there is a max combined VA / SSA benefit he can draw so
whatever he draws in SS funds is deducted from any VA disability
payment, if he is at 100 % VA disability. Enlisted and officers have
different VA max amounts. McCain is drawing full military disability
retirement rather than VA disability which is for military personnel
retired early due to disability or who develop service related
disability after leaving the military prior to full military
retirement.
This whole thing can be very confusing to the average person not
familiar with military retirement, military disability and VA
disability. To make it more confusing there is the 20 year military
retirement and full military retirement based on rank ( pay grade )
and years of service.
As an example an enlisted serviceman /woman who leaves the military
after a full term of service ( not retirement ) can draw a maximum of
just over $2,600 per month at full VA disability and any SSDI or SSA
money is deducted from that amount. Civilian pay is not considered so
someone on SSDI could draw a combined total of $2,600 plus earn
civilian wages as long as he didn't make over SGA for his civilian
work. Someone drawing SS retirement pay could earn as much as possible
for civilian work but would have his SS reduced under the standard
rules set by SSA and his / her VA pay reduced by the amount of SS
retirement they get after any offsets.
Mike
Jack
http://helpdesk.vetsfirst.org/index.php?id=37&pg=kb.page
2.1. Eligibility For Nonservice-Connected Pension
The VA provides disability benefits for veterans who do not have any
service-connected disorders.
VA nonservice-connected (NSC) pension benefits are available where the
veteran had at least 90 days of active military service, at least one
day of service was during a period of war, the veteran’s military
discharge was under conditions other than dishonorable and there is
medical evidence that the veteran is totally disabled as the result of
a disability not caused by his or her own willful misconduct.
NSC pension is income-based, meaning that the veteran’s household
(rather than individual) income cannot exceed the maximum annual
amount set by the VA each year. Thus, NSC pension is designed to
bring the veteran’s total annual household income to the level of the
maximum annual amount. The current maximum annual amount for VA
non-service connected pension is available on the VA’s website.
(snip)
_________
dauz...@gmail.com
Social Security Disability...What is considered earned income versus unearned income according to the SSA?
I read online that capital gains and investments are not considered as ‘earned income’ for those who receive social security disability. “Social Security excludes government benefits and investments as earned income. Interest, capital gains, pensions and annuities do not count as earned income.”
No Limits on Unearned Income: While a disabled (nonblind) person receiving SSDI cannot earn more than $1,010 per month by working, a person collecting SSDI can have any amount of income from investments, interest, or a spouse's income.
I’m a 41 year old veteran, I receive Social Security Disability, and since I have troubles working for others outside the home I wanted to “daytrade/short-term trade” stocks in my brokerage account where I could have some capital gains/investment gains to assist paying the utility bills. Say my net gains per year are $10,000 trading stocks for myself from home, could these gains count against me as "earned income" according to the social security disability guidelines? Thoughts? Help?
Here’s what one tax attorney told me: “Here is the general rule, passive income is not counted as earned income. Investment income is generally considered as “passive.” I think it most likely that “day trading” for yourself, and yourself only, would not be counted as “earned” income for social security disability insurance benefits purposes.”
I have a debit card and can pay you $25 over the phone for your professional advice, if needed.
Let me know.
Gerald Abrahamson
SSDI.
The definition of SSDI is to NOT be able to earn a
reasonable income via a normal job.
Being an ACTIVE stock trader/investor is a normal job (just
owning stuff and infrequently changing what you own is not a
job). You are doing this work over an extended time period--
being actively involved. You make money doing it. Therefore,
you are possibly no longer disabled (by their definition).
So, think carefully....
SixStringStu
<dauz...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:c9442bee-25e1-4540...@googlegroups.com...
1: Nobody here asks for monetary compensation for advice given. Well at
least that is the way things were when this group was the active resource.
That resource no is located in a Google Group socialsecuritydisability. Not
the alt.social-security-disability google mirror of this group.
2: IF anyone requires money for their SSA advice, you are in the wrong
place.
Answers here, and the *real* individual behind the name, has been
comprimized. You cannot trust the answers, because you cannot trust where
advice is comming from.
That is how our troll has altered this cyberverse.
cheryl
news:3e9mt7t92dtr2tu9g...@4ax.com:
> You may be proving you are no longer disabled and thus lose
> SSDI.
>
> The definition of SSDI is to NOT be able to earn a
> reasonable income via a normal job.
>
> Being an ACTIVE stock trader/investor is a normal job (just
> owning stuff and infrequently changing what you own is not a
> job). You are doing this work over an extended time period--
> being actively involved. You make money doing it. Therefore,
> you are possibly no longer disabled (by their definition).
>
> So, think carefully....
looked up. Nonetheless you most definitely need to be congratulated on
your profound insight regarding the obvious, Geraldine.
cheryl
news:jrfbro$idq$1...@dont-email.me:
>
> 1: Nobody here asks for monetary compensation for advice given. Well
> at least that is the way things were when this group was the active
> resource. That resource no is located in a Google Group
> socialsecuritydisability. Not the alt.social-security-disability
> google mirror of this group.
>
> 2: IF anyone requires money for their SSA advice, you are in the wrong
> place.
>
> Answers here, and the *real* individual behind the name, has been
> comprimized. You cannot trust the answers, because you cannot trust
> where advice is comming from.
>
> That is how our troll has altered this cyberverse.
criminal, pathological liar, self-proclaimed sociopath and life-long
societal parasite who has a record of several felony arrests and who was
locked up by the Feds in a loony bin, has altered this cyberverse.
Loony-bin boy is no longer locked up in a padded cell where he rightfully
belongs. Instead, he is free to pursue his criminal activities on the
internet. Rather than assaulting his victims with his fists in bars and
on the street, loony-bin boy now assaults his victims with his defamatory
lies on the the Internet.