Must Fibro be determined by trigger points ?
Just the Facts
accurate background info before I go .
My rheumatoligist has diagnosed one of my many ailments as
fibromyalgia "focused" around the middle of my back / spine .
I've looked around and tried my best to learn what fibro is and I keep
coming up with these references to trigger points and how a diagnoses
is made by having a certain number of trigger points indentified .
Strange thing is my rheumatoligist has never done any "trigger" point
exam and claims he doesn't need too . He says he can tell by looking
at me , bent over in pain .
I have Fibromyalgia , end of story .
I also have extensive DDD (lumbar , thoracic and neck) , D.I.S.H.
(thoracic-6 vertabraes fused) , lumbargo , tingling finger tips ,
nerve root compression to name a few .
Is there something I've missed , a new "credible" method for
diagnosing Fibro ?
Not having this exam and not in my record have a negative impact with
my SSD claim ?
Should I have a Fibro "trigger" point exam conducted at all ?
If yes , by whom ?
I really don't want to ask my doctor again but it bugs me why he feels
he doesn't need to perform a "trigger" point exam for Fibromyalgia and
confidently diagnosed me has having Fibro .
I want to talk to my attorney about this and want to have some
background info to help me with this puzzling question .
so many questions , so many doubts , so much to think about
Just the Facts .
Just the Facts
Jack
<sendrep...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Is there something I've missed , a new "credible" method for
>diagnosing Fibro ?
>Not having this exam and not in my record have a negative impact with
>my SSD claim ?
>Should I have a Fibro "trigger" point exam conducted at all ?
>If yes , by whom ?
Read the article below which discusses FMS in general, shows the
location of the tender points, summarizes SSA's policies, and refers
to court cases that ruled against SSA.
Lori
check your Tender Points first then refer your to a Rheumatologist. You
will definitely know if you have fibromyalgia when he/she presses on a
tender point.
I about went through the ceiling when my primary care physician checked
my Tender Points. It is very painful. My PCP did diagnose me with FMS
(Fibromyalgia Syndrome) after checking my Tender Points. Then he
referred me to a Rheumatologist to confirm his diagnosis.
The Rheumatologist also pressed on my Tender Points. Again it was very
painful and I almost went through the ceiling. He did confirm that I do
have fibromyalgia. He thought I may also have Polymyalgia Rheumatica
and ordered some blood tests. Thank goodness I do not have Polymyalgia
Rheumatica.
I have not ever heard of a specialist not checking Tender points when
diagnosing Fibromyalgia. Here is a page that will give you more info
about it.
http://www.fibro-myalgia.com/tenderpoints.html
Good luck to you. I hope you do not have Fibro as it is not a pleasant
thing to deal with at all. It not only causes excruciating pain, it
also cause loss of concentration and memory loss at times.
I have learned to live with the daily ache of fibro in my neck and
shoulders. My heating pad gets a workout. Fibro flare ups are what are
extremely painful. You will hurt all over usually when having a flare.
Hope this info helps a little bit to explain what happens when one has
fibro. There is no cure for fibromyalgia at this time but it is not
terminal.
Lori
Just the Facts
Thanks to both Jack and Lorie ,
I have some reading and thinking and talking to do .
Read Jacks SSA reference meterial , think about what I need to ask and
do and finally when I see my attorney for the first time in over
1 1/2 years , do some talking and get some advice and answers .
I 'm pretty sure I have this Fibro , you named off all of my symptoms
beside the tender point thingy .
My rheumatoligist claims I do , and he is the expert according to his
wall of certificates .
There are many , some going back to 1973 !
My biggest complaint is the awful discomfort laying down for the
evening and the constant rolling and tossing and turning because
it hurts to lie still for just and hour . Never getting a good night
sleep .
I also get these daily headaches , sometimes so bad light and sounds
hurt , I'll sit in total darkness with no TV or radio .
This can not be normal .
And no way of "credibly" documenting these problems .
I tell my rheumatoligist about these incidents , he blames it on the
Fibro and NEVER writes any of this down in his reports .
I know because I have seen five (5) years of his poor reporting
habits .
I don't get it , I don't like it (of course) and I"m pretty sure it is
going to stay this way if not get worse on top of my other conditions
that is known to
only get worse with time .
I gots to go and get myself motivated somehow to make it to the
attorneys office .
This appointment was long in waiting and don't want to miss it .
Thanks again to both of you folks for the input , I hope I can use the
info to get my appproval .
Twayne
never had any obvious trigger points either for my FM, but the
lack of trigger points was never brought up anywhere as an
issue. Besides, the opoids I take might mask them anyway I
suppose.
The vaguest thing I have is probably "non-specific myalgias
body-wide" and the most obvious DJD (Degenerative Joint
Disease) along with several other accompanying skeletal
issues. FM led the list as the first major problem and DJD
was discovered as part of the FM investigation.
HTH,
Twayne`
n
news:45daf278-89f9-45b8...@g30g2000yqc.googlegroups.com,
Just the Facts <sendrep...@gmail.com> typed:
Just the Facts
> No I don't think so, unless it's the ONLY complaint; I've
> never had any obvious trigger points either for my FM, but the
> lack of trigger points was never brought up anywhere as an
> issue. Besides, the opoids I take might mask them anyway I
> suppose.
> The vaguest thing I have is probably "non-specific myalgias
> body-wide" and the most obvious DJD (Degenerative Joint
> Disease) along with several other accompanying skeletal
> issues. FM led the list as the first major problem and DJD
> was discovered as part of the FM investigation.
>
> HTH,
>
> Twayne`
>
> nnews:45daf278-89f9-45b8...@g30g2000yqc.googlegroups.com,
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hello Twayne ,
It seems to be getting more attention nowadays , but not to the level
of some other ailments .
I've seen two surgeons and several phys therapists and non of them
ever breathed the word Fibro .
It wasn't till I was reffered to my current doctor , a
rheumatoligist , that I was diagnosed with Fibro .
That was over five (5) years ago .
I had no idea what fibro was and through the magic of web based
information , I learned alot about it .
Just to be sure , I had asked around within my circle of influence and
was able to confirm my research is pretty accurate .
The part that always puzzled me is the trigger / tender point thingy .
Alot of references to that but yet my doctor shrugs it off as a non
issue .
In his office he has brochures he authored giving details about
Fibro , CFS , RA and OA and a few others I can't recall at this
moment .
Also , he has all these certificates he has earned over the years ,
many with Fibro related accolades and acheivments .
On top of all that , he has on occasion been on speaking tours across
the country lecturing about , you guessed it,,,Fibromyalgia .
It just seems so strange , doctor diagnosed me with Fibro but never
has done one of those so called examinations .
Maybe it is like the car mechanic , you want to have your wheel
alignment checked and the mechanic looks at your tires and confidently
concludes your
wheels are indeed out of alignment . Looked at the wear marks on the
tires and only one reason tires would wear out that way .
Seems simple enough .
I don't know , seems like SSA wants more "credible" proof than just a
mere observation even if it is the right diagnoses .
Anyways , I filed my SSD claim based on DDD , lumbargo , D.I.S.H. ,
CFS .
Listed Fibro as a secondary ailment just for good measure .
Twayne
news:2a2d6b1f-8cad-4af8...@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com,
>> No I don't think so, unless it's the ONLY complaint; I've
>> never had any obvious trigger points either for my FM, but
>> the lack of trigger points was never brought up anywhere
>> as an issue. Besides, the opoids I take might mask them
>> anyway I suppose.
>> The vaguest thing I have is probably "non-specific myalgias
>> body-wide" and the most obvious DJD (Degenerative Joint
>> Disease) along with several other accompanying skeletal
>> issues. FM led the list as the first major problem and DJD
>> was discovered as part of the FM investigation.
>>
>> HTH,
>>
>> Twayne`
>>
>
> Hello Twayne ,
> It seems to be getting more attention nowadays , but not to
> the level of some other ailments .
> I've seen two surgeons and several phys therapists and non
> of them ever breathed the word Fibro .
It's sad, but many doctors are not aware of FM and don't treat
it. However, I've found that the better doctors around here,
rather than blurt out FM will send their patients to a
specialist for further work. My own doctor is a kidney man but
he used referrals to get to the bottom of my pain. It was a
neurologist and a bone man that made my own diagnosis. It took
a few extra visits because I didn't exhibit the typical
pressure points but finally eliminated CFS but landed on FM.
Somehow, there are also blood tests for it and it was
diagnosed from there based on the characteristics of the pain
and some factor in the blood.
> It wasn't till I was reffered to my current doctor , a
> rheumatoligist , that I was diagnosed with Fibro .
> That was over five (5) years ago .
> I had no idea what fibro was and through the magic of web
> based information , I learned alot about it .
> Just to be sure , I had asked around within my circle of
> influence and was able to confirm my research is pretty
> accurate .
> The part that always puzzled me is the trigger / tender
> point thingy . Alot of references to that but yet my doctor
> shrugs it off as a non issue .
Same here. I think once it's diagnosed and it's a sure
diagnosis they don't care anymore. It can only get worse as
time goes by and since there is no cure they settle down on
treatment. With luck, you have a talkative doctor for such
things, as I am happy to say I have.
> In his office he has brochures he authored giving details
> about
> Fibro , CFS , RA and OA and a few others I can't recall at
> this moment .
> Also , he has all these certificates he has earned over the
> years , many with Fibro related accolades and acheivments .
> On top of all that , he has on occasion been on speaking
> tours across the country lecturing about , you guessed
> it,,,Fibromyalgia .
> It just seems so strange , doctor diagnosed me with Fibro
> but never has done one of those so called examinations .
Probably no need, but ... of course there's no way for me to
know that. I'm sure you noticed in some of your research that
FM can also be a "last resort definition" of pain complaints
in patients. NOW, depending on my pain meds level, I DO feel
the pressure points on occasion in my neck and shoulder areas
and the back, but years back when all this was just beginning,
it was a process of elimination and numerous exams until all
that was left that matched the symptoms was FM.
>
> Maybe it is like the car mechanic , you want to have your
> wheel alignment checked and the mechanic looks at your
> tires and confidently concludes your
> wheels are indeed out of alignment . Looked at the wear
> marks on the tires and only one reason tires would wear out
> that way .
> Seems simple enough .
Seems so ... unless those tires were recently put on the car
and came from a different car, etc. etc.. That's the process
of elimination stuff I indicated, I think.
>
> I don't know , seems like SSA wants more "credible" proof
> than just a mere observation even if it is the right
> diagnoses .
DEFINITELY! FM, CFS (Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) and neuralgias
are probably the most faked disabiity claims there are because
they are to hard to determine. IMO they are downright stupid
and unreasonable about such things, but I can sort of
understand where they're coming from, even though I think
they're all wet in the way they go about it. IMO SSA
practices medicine without a license when it comes to this
sort of thing. SS is entirely WRONG In how they analyze these
things, but what can we do? We're just peons at the bottom of
their barrel of lies, misdirection and prejudices. I can
understand why some people suicide over these things. But
always remember, patience and perseverence will win out
eventually; I firmly believe that.
>
> Anyways , I filed my SSD claim based on DDD , lumbargo ,
> D.I.S.H. , CFS .
> Listed Fibro as a secondary ailment just for good measure .
>
> so many questions , so many doubts , so much to think about
> Just the Facts
As long as your doctor's paperwork and findings indicate FM,
that's good, assuming they also accept your doctor's forms and
data. They don't have to, in which case they send you to
their own doctors.
The following is NOT an attempt to one-up you, and I'm fully
aware of how you feel IMO, and what you're going throught
right now. The following I give in the hopes that it lets you
know you're not alone and that there are many others who have
been through it before you. Patience and Perseverence are very
important, as is never burning a bridge behind you. So please
keep that in mind if you're still reading (I know this got
long; sorry).
When they look at disability, keep in mind that they assess
ALL of your problems together, and consider their impact on
your daily life, level of pain, lifting 7 pounds for 6 hours,
etc etc etc.. For example, my initial claims were for FM, OA,
RA, DJD and non-specific neuralgias. But also included were
COPD, Sleep Apnea, Vertigo, Clinical Depression, necessary
medications, ability to focus mentally and some others I can't
think of right now with crazy names like ankling spondalysis
(SP?) nerve compressions , a brain concussion and other
strangely named things. All of those were in the list by the
time it was all over. I spent over 5 years in the system
before I was awarded a Fully Favorable decision; I almost
suicided a couple of times before they started treating me for
depression and discovered heart arythmias and blood pressure
problems, which were attributed to the SSA process. All that
back pay was sure nice, but it didn't even begin to make up
for what they put me through.
Stick in there, assuming you definitely meet the criteria and
take advantage of EVERY reconsideration possibility. Make up
your mind now that you'll take this all the way to Federal
Court if you have to, and keep meticulous records about
everything anyone says or writes that has to do with your
case.
Forget about "good days" etc., when talking to anyone SSA
related and base it all on your worst days, and keep in mind
that "pain" (in my case anyway) is/was the limitation that
made me disabled.
HTH,
Twayne`
SixStringStu
"Twayne" <nob...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:hq4qn6$a3g$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
impression that FM was a condition to do with the thin covering that
sepperates the muscle tissue from the innermost layer of skin. That there
are tears or weak spots within this (for lack of a better word) film that
caused the aches and pains.
Was also told that people who have had lots of cuts and scars could expect
FM to make an appearence, depending upon the depth and number of scar
tissues.
What say you folks who have a much better education on the topic? Was this
bad information to be carrying around all these years?
Just the Facts
> Innews:2a2d6b1f-8cad-4af8...@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com,
> Just the Facts <sendrepliest...@gmail.com> typed:
>
> - Show quoted text -
In my opinion,
I was under the impression mental illnesses was the hardest to prove
since no physical proof is
possible .
There is a few groupies on this newsgroup who exhibit mental
instabilities but not to the point of being disabiled .
There is talk of raising children and gardening and not able to work ,
even in a controlled enviroment ?
Somehow they were approved .
Chill pills and mood altering drugs seems to be in order for a few of
these people .
Of course that is only my opinion baseds upon my limited exposure to
these groupies I am refering to .
I have these fancy , expensive pictures (MRI's , CATscans , X-rays)
that clearly shows physical
abnormalities directly resulting in mechanical functional failure of
the body .
Limited mechanical function of the jionts and limbs has all these
measures to determine disability seems barbaric and not at all
realistic .
Best we as citizens can do is yell and scream at our legislators to
get their attention and make them up-date these SSA rules to reflect
the real
world as it is today .
I'm sure Mr. Jack can relate to that approach .
Maybe they did with the new health care reform now on the books .
Time will tell , it always does .
Twayne
SixStringStu <hawki...@nccray.net> typed:
Stu,
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/fibromyalgia
:
Fibromyalgia is described as inflammation of the fibrous or
connective tissue of the body. Widespread muscle pain,
fatigue, and multiple tender points characterize these
conditions. Fibrositis, fibromyalgia, and fibromyositis are
names given to a set of symptoms believed to be caused by the
same general problem.
The exact cause of fibromyalgia is not known. Sometimes it
occurs in several members of a family, suggesting that it may
be an inherited disorder. People with fibromyalgia are most
likely to complain of three primary symptoms: muscle and joint
pain, stiffness, and fatigue.
Pain is the major symptom with aches, tenderness, and
stiffness of multiple muscles, joints, and soft tissues. The
pain also tends to move from one part of the body to another.
It is most common in the neck, shoulders, chest, arms, legs,
hips, and back. Although the pain is present most of the time
and may last for years, the severity of the pain changes and
is dependent on individual patient perception.
There is no known cure for fibromyalgia. Therefore, the goal
of treatment is successful symptom management. Treatment
usually requires a combination of therapies, exercise, proper
rest, and diet. A patient's clear understanding of his or her
role in the recovery process is imperative for successful
management of this condition...
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/fibromyalgia/DS00079
http://fibromyalgia-book.com/
http://www.free-medical-books.com/the-fibromyalgia-syndrome-a-clinical-case-definition-for-practitioners.html
It's a mean disease/disorder/whatever. Your information is
correct insofar as it goes, but there's a lot more to it if
you wish to check any of the links I provided. Google has a
LOT of hits on it, mostly good. It can be very hard to control
and very difficult to diagnose. The pain can go from minimal
to excruciating in the space of just a few minutes and then be
gone almost as quickly for a few lucky people but it never
goes away.
HTH,
Twayne`
SixStringStu
been having.
I remember back in Baltimore, while going to a group therapy meeting in
support of a friend, I knew of a woman who was struggling with getting
diagnosed with this. She was very frustrated with her medical providers, I
guess things have changed in the last 15 years. I hope that she finally got
her symptoms diagnosed, if in fact FM was the culprit, she was in constant
discomfort.
Twayne
news:58a718d4-5501-4583...@g9g2000vba.googlegroups.com,
>> Innews:2a2d6b1f-8cad-4af8...@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com,
>> Just the Facts <sendrepliest...@gmail.com> typed:
...
>
> In my opinion,
> I was under the impression mental illnesses was the hardest
> to prove since no physical proof is
> possible .
No arguement from me. "Hardest" is always a difficult thing to
define. From what I've seen here and experienced in real life,
both the physical and mental can be extremely hard to "prove"
the way the system is set up. They all end up in a case by
case situation, so ... a lot of opinion comes into play from
the powers that make the decisions, IMO. I also think that in
many cases the decisions are stacked against a successful
claim for many simply because the critters making those
decisions have NO medical background. That is completely and
totally illogical to me, and just as unacceptable, but ...
that good ol' boy network isn't going to get changed any time
soon.
> There is a few groupies on this newsgroup who exhibit mental
> instabilities but not to the point of being disabiled .
> There is talk of raising children and gardening and not
> able to work , even in a controlled enviroment ?
> Somehow they were approved .
> Chill pills and mood altering drugs seems to be in order
> for a few of these people .
> Of course that is only my opinion baseds upon my limited
> exposure to these groupies I am refering to .
Yes and you're certainly entitled to your own opinions. One
of my biggest problems in the beginning was that I didn't
"look" disabled to most people. There's no way to tell just by
looking at someone and that's what a lot of folk like to hang
their hats on; looks. Driving by my house, you might see me
out raking up big piles of leaves and grass. Nothing disabled
looking about that, most of the time. But what they don't see
is that I stop and rest every ten to fifteen minutes and in
total may only spend an hour or so at that job where someone
healthy would have finished it in twenty minutes. I LOVE
yardwork and still do whatver little bit of it that I can.
>
> I have these fancy , expensive pictures (MRI's , CATscans ,
> X-rays) that clearly shows physical
> abnormalities directly resulting in mechanical functional
> failure of the body .
> Limited mechanical function of the jionts and limbs has all
> these measures to determine disability seems barbaric and
> not at all realistic .
Not sure what you mean, but those are all "medical evidence"
of the diseases a disabled person may or may not have.
Personally, I've found them informational for myself and the
system in general when I was in it, and things like range of
motion was something i had no idea about how to check. But
reading my reports, for instance, about writst movements, I
saw how small a range of motion I had compared to a healthy
person.
But if the people that make decisions based on such
information aren't medical people and have no ideas how
debilitating someting is or isn't, they're just making wild
ass guesses - meaning the SSA examiners.
>
> Best we as citizens can do is yell and scream at our
> legislators to get their attention and make them up-date
> these SSA rules to reflect the real
> world as it is today .
Agreed, but ... and sorry for being so pessimistic, that
process began years ago under, I forget the commisioner's name
at the time, with a lot of bragging and hype about how great
the system would get and how backlogs just wouldn't exist
anymore. BS! Even with all the different states they're
running their tests in, not a single thing has improved and
the backlog continues the same or worse. The entire SSA needs
to be bulldozed and regrown from new seed again, but ... it's
not going to happen. For every positive possibility there are
a long list of old timers out there to thwart and otherwise
ruin any good progress. Of the many gvt agencies I've worked
with over the years, ranging from the FBI, FTC, FCC, and their
counterparts in several other countries, the SSA is the worst
of the bunch. IMO it's so firmly entrenched with lazy slobs
and the "status quo" that it hasn't a chance of succeeding in
a timely fashion and if anything positive ver does come about,
it'll be decades from now.
And all that depend on stopping the rape and pillaging of
the SS bankrolls and paying off the billions they are owed.
Every agency wants a piece of the SSA money simply because its
so easy to pillage.
> I'm sure Mr. Jack can relate to that approach .
I'm also sure you're right, but I don't pretend to speak for
him since he's just a knowledgeable and reliable participant
on this group. His observations are always top notch and
backed by verifiable sources the vast majority of us had no
idea even existed until he provided them.
> Maybe they did with the new health care reform now on the
> books . Time will tell , it always does .
Again, sorry to be so pessimistic, but I seriously doubt any
changes in our areas will ever come about. It's just too
large an old boy's network with too many employees who don't
care, in addition to many who DO care, but only about
maintaining this as they are. ALJs are the worst, and they
have nothing to monitor them or keep track of their dealings
with the public and depend highly on the fact that it's very
difficult to fire or otherwise get rid of them. I never truly
hated a human being until I ended up in front of a prejudiced
ALJ for the 3rd time and also practiced medicine without a
license, in my and it turned out a lot of others opinions.
The American voters seem to be just too stupid and/or
ignorant to use their votes wisely in the few instances when
it would help considerably. Voting anymore IMO Is simply a
task of choosing the lesser evil, not an actual free choice.
That is, IF they decide to find out anything at all about the
people they vote for; most don't and prefer to remain
blissfully ignorant. The majority don't even vote, but they
can sure bitch and scream when things don't go their way. We
may have the best gvt inthe world, but that doesn't mean it's
fair or that it doesn't suck.
HTH,
Twayne`
Jack
wrote:
> I also think that in
>many cases the decisions are stacked against a successful
>claim for many simply because the critters making those
>decisions have NO medical background.
Over 90% of DDS decisions are made by a team consisting of a
disability examiner and a physician, or, in the case of a mental
impairment only, a psychologist rather than a psychiatrist may
participate in the decision.
https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0424501001!opendocument
_______
At the hearings level, the ALJ is not a physician which is no
different from court cases in which a judge or judge and jury make
decisions after hearing testimony from experts like physicians.
> That is completely and
>totally illogical to me, and just as unacceptable, but ...
>that good ol' boy network isn't going to get changed any time
>soon.
SSA is 70% female.
http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/statcomps/supplement/2009/2f1-2f3.html#table2.f2
Bob
People with fibromyalgia are most
> likely to complain of three primary symptoms: muscle and joint pain,
> stiffness, and fatigue.
Geez, that sounds like me. When I was very young and very wealthy,
I used to get a 90 minute massage 3x a week. Terrible muscle and joint
pain at age 18! My late wife used to massage me for about an hour
every night before going to bed. New wife is way too petite for any of
that. So I just suffer with it. When I take vicodin for headaches, the
other pains do not seem to be affected by the pain killers, and I take
them 3 at a time because of my genetic abnormality in liver enzymes
that process opiates.
Bob
news:30e09$4bc74d9b$45395fc1$11...@ispn.net...
> I remember back in Baltimore, while going to a group therapy meeting
> in support of a friend, I knew of a woman who was struggling with
> getting diagnosed with this. She was very frustrated with her
> medical providers, I guess things have changed in the last 15 years.
> I hope that she finally got her symptoms diagnosed, if in fact FM
> was the culprit, she was in constant discomfort.
was when I was remodeling my house. I gutted it, because it was a
historic landmark and completely re-did the whole thing. Took 22
months of back-breaking labor. I think that pain over-rode the other.
Relayer
> Innews:58a718d4-5501-4583...@g9g2000vba.googlegroups.com,
Anyone who looks at me knows I'm sick as hell.
SixStringStu
"Bob" <obxrf...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hq7p0o$rt7$2...@news.eternal-september.org...
> "Twayne" <nob...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
> news:hq7hc1$1rk$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> People with fibromyalgia are most
>> likely to complain of three primary symptoms: muscle and joint pain,
>> stiffness, and fatigue.
>
> Geez, that sounds like me. When I was very young and very wealthy, I
> used to get a 90 minute massage 3x a week. Terrible muscle and joint pain
> at age 18! My late wife used to massage me for about an hour every night
> before going to bed. New wife is way too petite for any of that. So I just
> suffer with it. When I take vicodin for headaches, the other pains do not
> seem to be affected by the pain killers, and I take them 3 at a time
> because of my genetic abnormality in liver enzymes that process opiates.
about how grapefruit juice has an altering effect on how drugs get
metabolized? Not sure if they get more potent or ineffective. Might be worth
looking into?
Bob
Twayne
probably stepping on some toes but my own trip thru the
process was really excruciating and I've seen first hand what
the "streets" of the SSA are. As I'll talk about below, I will
make an attempt at "mellowing" somewhat.
I suspect the fact that the "team" is made up of medical
people too is true, but ... IMO the ALJ isn't and was not
bound by any of their judgements, IF he even met with them.
It's also why, IMO and according to my lawyer, my own
complaint, and a neighbor's who came along as a witness,
about him making medical desicions during the hearing was
practicing medicine without a license. I was one of many
according to her, and all he got was a slap on the wrist for
it.
This ALJ, whom I went in front of 3 times, either lied or
didn't know the difference in two of his opines about me on
his decision papers and I was told that wasn't unusual in
these hearings. I finally got my Fully Favorable on what my
lawyer said was a point of law, whatever that means, and I
attribute most of the success to my lawyer but also to a large
degree on my house rep who was on one of the committees and
kept in close touch with me after he saw my case. NOTHING
moved after the anthrax scare until someone congressional got
involved. From that point on, he reported to my lawyer almost
weekly and she relayed everything to me.
So, yeah, I'm a little paranoid about the SSA and I' ve
seen a lot of evidence of the same thing still going on in
many places. But you can read all that in my book; I have a
publisher now and plan to release it on my 66th birthday.
As for the "good ol' boy's network", I'm sure it does include
women. But sex isn't important; being part of the network is
still a fact IMO and will continue to be for the foreseeable
future. I've seen very little happening that actually creates
any improvements in the system, especially where ALJs are
concerned. That's one cushy job with gobs of job security.
They need to go on the ballots same as most any other judge
does.
Sorry if I came off as against you; I'm not, in any way. Your
knowledge and experience are invaluable contributions to this
group and wherever you decide to participate. I especially
appreciate the way you back yourself up with verification
links and URLs. You're great, and I mean that. I have a
relative who is just getting started in the claims processing
at the SSA in Rochester and he's already pretty dismayed by
many of the things he sees. I don't complain to him of
course, and only try to help his mood and encourage him
because he's in a position to do a lot of good, possibly. I
have to wonder though if he's going to make it or get fired
first.
Anyway, these are my opinions and I do feel I still stand by
them. I probably AM however guilty of painting the world with
only one color of paint where the SSA is involved and I'll try
to watch that in the future. I've just been pushed to my
limits and even though it's nearing a decade since the
favorable, I still have all the same feelings about the
process; namely hate for the powers that be and disgust with
the whole process. I foolishly looked forward to some changes
when (woman, forget her name) announced all those sweeping
changes and improvements for the SSA. She made a big splash
and then wasn't heard of anymore; something I'm afraid they'll
do to my cousin in Rochester.
Regards,
Twayne`
In news:4bc75250...@nntp.aioe.org,
Jack <Windswept@Home.> typed:
Jack
wrote:
>I understand what you're saying, Jack, and I knew I was
>probably stepping on some toes but my own trip thru the
>process was really excruciating and I've seen first hand what
>the "streets" of the SSA are.
My toes were not touched; just merely pointing out that a doctor
signs-off on the DDS decisions. And I know that you were shafted by
incompetence and even arrogance by the ALJ who overstepped his role.
> IMO the ALJ isn't and was not
>bound by any of their judgements,
That's true. He makes a "de novo" decision, although he is allowed to
consider what has gone before and give it whatever weight he deems
appropriate. Most ALJs look with disdain on the DDS, frankly.
>As for the "good ol' boy's network", I'm sure it does include
>women.
Even in 1967 when women were still discouraged from doing certain
jobs, SSA was very progressive. In fact, the woman personnel director
said in '67, "Welcome to the matriarchy." She was only half-way
kidding.
>Sorry if I came off as against you; I'm not, in any way.
No, I was just putting in my two cents worth when I have a different
opinion.
Twayne
redirected by your posts or any of your opinions on this
group. You are the last person here I'd want to say anything
negative about.
Regards,
Twayne`
In news:4bca2f57...@nntp.aioe.org,
Jack <Windswept@Home.> typed:
earthpots
> I'll be seeing my attorney in a few hours and I need to have some
> accurate background info before I go .
> My rheumatoligist has diagnosed one of my many ailments as
> fibromyalgia "focused" around the middle of my back / spine .
>
> I've looked around and tried my best to learn what fibro is and I keep
> coming up with these references to trigger points and how a diagnoses
> is made by having a certain number of trigger points indentified .
>
It's not "trigger points", it's "tender points" and they are two entirely
different things. Tender points elicit a spcific pain responce when
palpated, and there is a requirement as to how many and where, to diagnose
Fibromyalgia.
> Strange thing is my rheumatoligist has never done any "trigger" point
> exam and claims he doesn't need too . He says he can tell by looking
> at me , bent over in pain .
> I have Fibromyalgia , end of story .
>
That might work for him in diagnosing you, but SSA is going to want more
than "I can tell" if you are claiming Fibro as a disability. also, there are
a number of disorders/diseases who's symptoms mimic Fibro. to not due the
typical exams required to draw the conslusion of Fibro is a disservice to
you as the patient. You should have had a Immunological/Rheumatalogical
workup in addition to the standard tender point exam.
> I also have extensive DDD (lumbar , thoracic and neck) , D.I.S.H.
> (thoracic-6 vertabraes fused) , lumbargo , tingling finger tips ,
> nerve root compression to name a few .
>
> Is there something I've missed , a new "credible" method for
> diagnosing Fibro ?
> Not having this exam and not in my record have a negative impact with
> my SSD claim ?
> Should I have a Fibro "trigger" point exam conducted at all ?
> If yes , by whom ?
>
If you are claiming Fibro as a disability, you need supporting documentation
as to why. The exams don't have to be done by Rheumatalogists, though they
are are the typical practitioners treating Fibro. Since research is leaning
to Fibro being a neurological disorder, more Neurologists are going on board
and treating Fibro. My exam was done by a Board Certified Doctor in Internal
Medicine. I had the full Immunological/Rheumatalogical workup to eliminate
other possible common causes or Athralgias and Myalgias, and the full Tender
Point exam. All of that was submitted to SSA as part of my disability claim.
> I really don't want to ask my doctor again but it bugs me why he feels
> he doesn't need to perform a "trigger" point exam for Fibromyalgia and
> confidently diagnosed me has having Fibro .
>
He may know you and your backround well enough to allready excude typical
cuses for your symptoms, and find the Tender Point exam unecessary and
redundent as he may already know your history of Arthralgias and Myalgias
from previous exams, and feel you meet the criteria. But, as I said, that
won't fly with SSA. There has to be supporting documentation to show how the
doctor came up with the Fibro diagnosis. The labwork I mentioned coupled
with the Tender Point exam is the standard which doctors go by.
> I want to talk to my attorney about this and want to have some
> background info to help me with this puzzling question .
>
> so many questions , so many doubts , so much to think about
> Just the Facts .
--
Carol
Contessa of Consternation
Known to leave foes discombobulated
Scroll down for email contact information.
Autistic Spectrum Code v.1.0
AS? d- s--:+ a+ c+ p+ t-- f S+ p@- e+ h- r- n+(-) i+ P m-() M
http://www32.brinkster.com/ascdecode/
"I have run rings around you logically". Monty Python
Email at clay_p...@nospam.com, removing the 'nospam' and replacing
with 'msn'. DO NOT use the reply function to email me, that goes to a
junk/spam throwaway account that I never check. If you send email to me
there, I most likely won't see it.
earthpots
Yes, but some 'physical' illnesses are hard to prove when they are based on
subjective data with no diagnostic testing to back them up. Because Fibro
has no specific tests to show that it is Fibro one has, proving it, and that
it is as disabling and debilitating as one claims, is very difficult. And
even physical proof may not be enough to show that a person is disabled
under SSA's rules. This is why daily living skills an overall function are
assessed as well. Physical proof such as scans and labwork only tell part of
the story.
> There is a few groupies on this newsgroup who exhibit mental
> instabilities but not to the point of being disabiled .
> There is talk of raising children and gardening and not able to work ,
> even in a controlled enviroment ?
> Somehow they were approved .
If SSA found them disabled, according to their rules, they found that their
overal impairment was severe on a day to basis. My mom did gardening, until
the past few years. She had to drastically change how she did it, and even
them could do only a little a day at a time. She got a wheeled garden
scooter, long-handled tools, and stopped when it got to be too much for her.
And one can be fully disabled, be unable to work, and raise kids. Disabled
people do it all the time. Older kids are not as physically taxing as
younger ones, older ones can actually assist in tasks. To compare the
demands of child rearing and recreational gardening, where adaptions can be
easily made to the disabled person's environment, to being able to hold a
full-time job where such adaptions only are required if reasonable; is
really stretching things. Yopu don't know the whole picture, so you have no
way of knowing the situation with the garden and kids. I did read who you
were questiong, and he was talking about mostly caring for indoor potted
plants, plus two of his kids are teenagers; you are simply making a
judgement call regarding him that you really can't make, based on the little
he said in that post. You have no way of knowing how much he does, and how
others in the family contribute to the household.
> Chill pills and mood altering drugs seems to be in order for a few of
> these people .
> Of course that is only my opinion baseds upon my limited exposure to
> these groupies I am refering to .
>
> I have these fancy , expensive pictures (MRI's , CATscans , X-rays)
> that clearly shows physical
> abnormalities directly resulting in mechanical functional failure of
> the body .
> Limited mechanical function of the jionts and limbs has all these
> measures to determine disability seems barbaric and not at all
> realistic .
>
> Best we as citizens can do is yell and scream at our legislators to
> get their attention and make them up-date these SSA rules to reflect
> the real
> world as it is today .
> I'm sure Mr. Jack can relate to that approach .
> Maybe they did with the new health care reform now on the books .
> Time will tell , it always does .
>
> so many questions , so many doubts , so much to think about
> Just the Facts
--