Problems with my union steward, Help!
Richard Hackwith
: I hope someone can help the union members of my office.
: Quick Question: How can we get rid of our Union Steward?
: So basically, my questions are:
: 1) Can we vote out a Union Steward that was appointed to that position?
: 2) How do we go about that?
: 3) Can we have the vote without the 3 "Johnny-come-latelys" ?
: (The 3 have been employed from a period varying from aprox 9 months
: to aprox 2 months, and have always turned down repeated offers to
: join the union before this week.)
: 4) Is there a code of ethics that stewards must abide by?
: 5) What are our bargaining options and strengths in a case like this?
You need to contact your Local President, he is the one that appoints
stewards. If you cannot get satifaction that way, your Local can be sued
through the labor courts. Shop stewards are not elected officals, make
sure that you have someone lined up that wants to do the job or you might
end up no steward.
: -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
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Richard
__
+-------------------------------------------+
| Richard Hackwith <> Sacramento CA |
| r...@calweb.com |
| http://www.calweb.com/~rph/ |
| http://www.calweb.com/~rph/irish.html |
+-------------------------------------------+
kimba...@my-dejanews.com
Quick Question: How can we get rid of our Union Steward?
Gory Details: Most of our office's union members do not think our
steward is unbiased, and we would like to vote in someone who is
going to have *our* best interests at heart, instead of *his* own
pocket. There have been incidences where someone has brought a
concern to him, to see if they had a legitimate grievance or not,
and he said no...UNTIL the very same incident happened to him, and
he filed a grievance on his own behalf. In fact, a healthy majority
of his grievances filed have been beneficial to himself. Is there
a code of ethics a steward must adhere to?
The only action we have taken is to write a letter to him and the
PM, asking that he write his higher up informing him of our request
to have a vote on the steward position in our office. We asked that
action be taken within a five day period. His reaction was to laugh
and to state that he couldn't be voted out, since he had been appointed
by a union official (is that true??). In those few days, the only
action taken was his getting 3 out of the 4 non-union members in
our small office joined up. If we had a vote of union members before
these 3 for a different steward, the vote would have been 5-2. If we
had a vote with these 3, the vote will be 5-5.
So basically, my questions are:
1) Can we vote out a Union Steward that was appointed to that position?
2) How do we go about that?
3) Can we have the vote without the 3 "Johnny-come-latelys" ?
(The 3 have been employed from a period varying from aprox 9 months
to aprox 2 months, and have always turned down repeated offers to
join the union before this week.)
4) Is there a code of ethics that stewards must abide by?
5) What are our bargaining options and strengths in a case like this?
Any help will be appreciated. Thank you.
Kimba Lyon
Old Sarge
but in
your case I have some definite answers for you. Check your dejanews
mailbox.
kimba...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
<70jo1u$fu0$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
Dee
kimba...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
<70jo1u$fu0$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>I hope someone can help the union members of my office.
>
>Quick Question: How can we get rid of our Union Steward?
>
Kimba, been there, and can tell you it ain't easy. Email me, and I'll give
you some information and where to turn for assistance. Chances are, you'll
just have to bide your time till the next election, but you just may be able
to find that one little loophole that will do it for you. Take one of the
d's out of my address to reply. I'm anti-spammed.
Dee
Trish
>
> I hope someone can help the union members of my office.
>
> Quick Question: How can we get rid of our Union Steward?
>
> and to state that he couldn't be voted out, since he had been appointed
> by a union official (is that true??).
Do you all vote for Stewards? Elections for Stewards in our branch are
happening right now. My own office is not voting because no one signed
up to be a Steward but me. I signed at the last minute when it became
clear no one else would. After the complaints about me by some this past
year I had thought there would be a waiting line to sign up and take
over. It is so much easier to talk than walk. Does your office have
someone else willing to do the job?
It is the hardest job I have ever done for the least amount of pay. I am
allegedly a managment flunky, predjudiced, only in it for the OT and so
on and so forth. I get insulted when I tell carriers they have no
grounds for a grievance, talked about if they get discipline for their
own actions, even when I get it reduced or dropped. The Union meetings
take me a three hour round trip, I see no one else from my office when I
attend.
I am not pretending to know what goes on in your office but be sure you
know what you are getting into before proceeding.
Trish
HRJ92836
do. It is not easy, but it is not impossible. First thing to remember is the
Postal Service HAS NO SAY, so don't waste your time with Management, they are
idiots. Second thing to remember is that YOU HAVE THE CHOICE!! So, there are
two aveunes to go. First, be ready from flack from the Union. By doing this
you are basicaly attacking one of THEIRS> Belive me that when it comes to the
Union siding up between YOU the voter and Him the Steward, YOU WILL LOSE
EVERYTIME! The Union will not do what you ask, but they MUST comly with your
vote. In order to be effective you have to understand the rules. Forget the
courts system. The Union has endless money and resources, you won't. The
Local will be supported by the National and they have millions to use against
you in court and THEY WILL! Check you r August Postal Record in which they
tell you the yearly expenses, and get a load of the legal expenses. You will
be amazed at why your dues are so high, this is one of the reasons. Leagl
Suits. Most who sue, lose or just simply run out of money. The courts are not
in your best interest.. Unions provide a geat deal of money to Political
funds, of which of course appoint judges. Don't waste your time, money and
effort going down that road, not to mention it could takes years and you will
not win, even if you are right. Further, remember that the Union IS YOUR ONLY
defense against the IDIOTS running the Post Office. When you go against the
Steward, the Union will become more friendly with the Managers and you will
become an enemy to them, because you are attacking "them" by going after the
steward. Ask for a copy of the Local's By-Laws. It is here that it is
detailed on how the Shop Stewards arrive in that position. There are only two
ways: 1. The democratic vote of each member at the STATION where the
Steward vacancy exists, or 2. The political favorite choice of the President
by appointment. If the Steward is elected by the members at the Station, there
are three ways you can get rid of him. They are the following: 1. Convince
him to resign, there are many ways of doing this. Silent treatments, temporary
withdrawl from the Union; written complaints to the National Business Agent
(the region you are in has a NALC Business Agent, you can get his address at
www.NALC.org); written complaints to President of the Local with an
accompanying petition signed by the MAJORITY of the people in your station,
appearing at the Branch meeting and submitting a motion to the President that
the Shop Steward be removed, if you do this you need the votes there to pull a
majority. The last idea won't work because of the reasons stated above. If
you fail at this meeting, the steward will more entrenched than ever. Also,
you may lose some very important clout. Be very careful.
2. In the event that the Steward is elected you may have to wait till the
next election if he does not voluntarily resign. however, this may be a great
length of time till the next election or no-one else will run against him.
Someone stated that it would be bad to be without a steward, I am of the
belief that a bad Steward is MUCH MORE dangerous than no steward. If something
happens at your station, the Postal Service is obligated to allow you to
contact the Local, that is in the National Agreement. No matter what the Union
is responsible to represent you, I would keep the Business Agents number to
call him during the day or night if something happens. or there is an issue in
which Postal inspectors (witch hunters) are involved. NEVER TALK TO A POSTAL
INSPECTOR without the Union, someone you trust in the Union that is, or a
Lawyer EVER!!! Management cannot act upon anything once you request
representation. A telephone call will be made to get you that representation.
. The best way to get rid of an Elected Steward is to run against him.
Anybody can be a steward, The only requirement is that you be a Unon Member.
The contract you learn. If you have been a Letter Carrier for awhile you know
what is right and what is wrong. If it feels wrong or doesn;t sound right it
proably isn't right. If you don't beleive what the supervisor is telling you.
OBEY THE ORDER, ask him to show you something in writing where it says it, and
then tell him you would like time to contact the Union. Get a National
Agreement and learn your rights, everybody needs to know just how protected you
are or are not. Learn how to be the PERFECT carrier by reading the Carriers
Handbook. It will tell you everything and you must follow it literally.
Mangement can't follow it and do the work within the hours they have been
allowed, YOU HAVE THE UPPER HAND. Start saying to yourself, that the route
you carry IS NOT YOUR ROUTE it is MANAGEMENTS route. It is not YOUR PROBLEM
it is their PROBLEM. You are hourly hired help and are not paid to make
decisions or fix problems. Once all these ideas are incorporated into your
work, you will be a great Shop Steward.
The National Agreement provides in Article 10 and 11 the right to file charges
against any Officer or member in the Union, that includes the steward. If
indeed you can prove that the Steward told someone they did not have a
grievance and refused to file one in their behalve, then the same EXACT SAME
conditions faced him and he filed a grievance for himself, you have viable
charges to file against him. Read these Articles on how this must be done.
One slip up of thse procedures and the Steward wins on technicality. Don't ask
the Business Agent for advice, he will not tell you but he will advise the
President of your Local what you are doing. They all stick together when it
comes to protecting themselves. If you have the real desire to get rid of
this Steward these are the methods you must pursue. You cannot do it alone,
you have to have the backing of the rest of your station. DO NOT GET
MANAGEMENT INVOLVED! Get your evidence together, make an appointment with the
local President. Tell him your concerns and ask him to "de-certify" the
Steward. If he declines to do so, inform him that you are aware of other
options you have but that you hope he will reconsider within the next 5 days
or so. (That gives him a way out and also gives him the chance to talk to the
steward. If you have the signature of everyone at your station on that
petition, you will have a very convincing case to present to the committee that
will be formed if you file charges against the Steward.) Thius procedure
takes time and effort, do not act without thinking about every move. Remember,
the Union protects it's own. That Steward is one of their own.!!!
3. Finally, the last choice you have is to change the By-Laws. If indeed the
Local By-Laws give the President of your Local the right to appoint Stewards,
then you must change the By-Laws to read that Steward will be elected by a
majority of the members AT THEIR STATION. In order to do this you must draft a
By-Laws ammendment proposal. Again the By-Laws will tell you how to do this
procedure, if you do not follow that procedure exactly you will lose by
technicality. The President will do everything in his power to prevent you
from removing any of his power, especially that power of chosing who gets to be
the Steward. That is total control. Control is a very corrupting thing. If
you decide you want to go this route, you may contact me I will assist you in
forming the ammendment for submission. I know this is discouraging, but it is
the way the Union has made it, they know most people will give up and not even
try. I hope you are different. Good Luck!!
mycr...@my-dejanews.com
hrj9...@aol.com (HRJ92836) wrote:
> don't waste your time with Management, they are idiots.
> IDIOTS running the Post Office.
I snipped lots of good stuff to focus on the the opinion that all members of
management are idiots.
I have some degree of experience dealing with postal personnel from widely
diverse geographic areas as well as organizational areas and levels from
personally working as a level 4 mail processor, window clerk, LSM operator,
bulk mail technician, numerous 204b positions, associate supervisor,
supervisor customer service, supervisor distribution operations (manual and
automated as well as platform operations in a huge P&DC), spent about 6 years
on various details around the country, and now am a headquarters manager
(yes, that's right, Elephant Plaza, Disneyland on the Potomac, etc...). I
have not noticed a higher percentage of idiots no matter where I have gone.
Yes, there have been idiots everywhere I have gone - in every craft,
organizational area, union, state, facility, or whatever...even in this
newsgroup. But I have never noticed a higher concentration of them in any
one group be it craft, management, contractors, or whomever. To be fair I
should also point out that I have not observed a higher degree of competency
in any group or level I have worked with either. It has always seemed to me
that there is a mix of idiots, slugs, average people, conscientious people,
extremely hard workers, gifted but lazy folks, climbers, sliders, drunks,
weasels, inspired motivated dynamos, etc. everywhere I go. It really is the
same everywhere-and I'm not just talking about the postal service here. I
think it is unfair to paint any group with such a broad brush. Why, if I
were to do so I might claim that there is a slightly higher percentage of
ball-busters in the carrier craft, and that wouldn't be fair (or true) would
it?
My own humble opinion, of course ;->
Cheers,
Mike
Eddie
I feel that the major problem here is people forgot where they came
from. In most cases a carrier supervisor was once a craft employee.
My, how quickly they forget all the little nuances that make up any
given day. Hey, maybe I have a little cold, so I'm not up to full speed
on a given day. Don't matter. So here is were the problems start.
I'll give you another example. We had a new supervisor training in our
office. He had been a carrier for 17 years. One day I was on schedule
for my leaving time, but I had an excess of parcel post so I informed
this supervisor that I would be late in my returning to the office.(We
do not use 3996's in our office, we tell the boss when we aren't going
to make it.) Well anyway, you would have thought that I was the worst
human being on this good Earth by his reaction. "What do you mean???'
said he, his face getting redder and redder. "It's early, YOU SHOULD
HAVE NO TROUBLE GETTING BACK!!!" I just nodded ok. I guess I was in
shock. Then I went out, did my route in a professional manor, and I
came back late as predicted. He must have checked up on me on the road
because he didn't say anything that afternnon. The point is, in 17
years as a carrier he must have had days like that. Another thing, he
had been a supervisor for 3 months, I have been on the same route for 10
years, just show me a little respect, I do know my own route and what it
takes to get it done. So if we call our bosses names, perhaps it is
just some frustration, because we think that they should know better???
eddie
Adam H. Kerman
Eddie <Cros...@webtv.net> wrote:
>I feel that the major problem here is people forgot where they came from. . .
>We had a new supervisor training in our office. He had been a carrier for 17
>years. One day I was on schedule for my leaving time, but I had an excess of
>parcel post so I informed this supervisor that I would be late in my returning
>to the office. . . . Well anyway, you would have thought that I was the worst
>human being on this good Earth by his reaction. . . . The point is, in 17
>years as a carrier he must have had days like that.
Hell, in 17 years, he must have had supervisors yelling at him like that! It's
like hazing: You deserve crap from him because of all the crap he took when
he was junior in the organization.
How many of us said to ourselves when we were teenagers, "I'll never treat my
kids like that." Today, we sound like our parents, usually with most of their
faults and few of their good points.
We are all such hypocrites.
Dee
Adam H. Kerman wrote in message <70vgt9$28s$1...@chinet.chinet.com>...
Actually, I remembered saying those words, and most of those promises I
kept. I raised my son entirely differently than my parents raised me. I
think he came out a better person for it. All it takes is knowing how to
keep a promise...whether it's to yourself or someone else.
As for the above mentioned supervisor. Well, I've seen more friendships go
down the drain because of people forgetting where they came from. It's just
not exclusive to the Postal Service. True story coming up: A post office
near us. Real nice carrier. Everyone thought he was the greatest thing
going. Shows all the new guys where to hide to kill time. You guessed it.
He makes Supervisor and goes to all the hiding places and turns all the
carriers in. Yup, real nice guy.
Dee
Bloody Viking
: As for the above mentioned supervisor. Well, I've seen more friendships go
: down the drain because of people forgetting where they came from. It's just
: not exclusive to the Postal Service. True story coming up: A post office
: near us. Real nice carrier. Everyone thought he was the greatest thing
: going. Shows all the new guys where to hide to kill time. You guessed it.
: He makes Supervisor and goes to all the hiding places and turns all the
: carriers in. Yup, real nice guy.
Damn. This type of thing is part and parcel to the Navy too.
--
CAUTION: Email Spam Killer in use. Leave this line in your reply! 152680
A cult founder's rustbucket freighter is his battleship.
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HRJ92836
watching is correct?" First of all, most people here don't live in the normal
business world, they are Post Office
".But I have never noticed a higher concentration of them in any
>one group be it craft, management, contractors, or whomever."
Since there are a heck of lot more Letter Carriers than Management, I will
take this as a compliment.
> spent about 6 years
>on various details around the country, and now am a headquarters manager
Yes, the typical "move on manager" no permance, no stability, only interested
in the upward mobility program. getting there by the use of bodies underneath
you, even your own (management) if necessary. Just like sharks, attack their
own in a feeding frenzy to ensure they have a better shot at the job. Such
loyalty! Never at Norman, Royal Oak, Dana Point, Escondido, New Jeresy, or
the others I'll bet, that is until it was over. I'm impressed.
>, there have been idiots everywhere I have gone - in every craft,
>even in this
>newsgroup.
It is so typical of managent to identify a problem, now try and fix it. Nah
they just move on. A lot of the people in this group say they have managers
for idiots. They are not encased in one place and I certainly do not like
Disneyland on the Potamic, Disneyland is a great place where people laugh and
have fun. L' Plaza is the map room for the destruction of people lives and
their crafts and the ultimate destruction of the Post Office. Few Managers if
any realize that IF the Letter Carriers fail - Managment will topple like a
house of cards. No backbone, no strength, no stamina, they will just move on
as always. Give us a break. Letter Carriers carry the weight of this business
on their backs, Managment reaps the profits like fatcats and carpetbaggers from
the past.
>Why, if I
>were to do so I might claim that there is a slightly higher percentage of
>ball-busters in the carrier craft, and that wouldn't be fair (or true) would
>it?
>
Management wouldn't have any idea of what a ball-buster is, you have never had
one to follow. Management has no idea what the truth is either, they have
never had to face it or tell it for sure! We will be seeing alot more of
Management's "humble" opinion.
Paul Roue
stories!
Here's one to get things rolling.
The town I live in has 5 routes, 2 are city and 3 are rural. 204b spot
opened and they had two choose between 2 candidates. first was a clerk
in the office with 17 years experience. the other was ptf clerk from a
nearby town with 1 year experience. The nearby town has no city
delivery, no rural, just box section and the clerk basically put in her
two hours each day and went home.
Which would you choose to fill the slot?
17 year clerk was so disgusted she is resigning.
--
Paul Roue
105 W. 2nd Ave N.
Aurora MN 55705
NALC Member Br. 5213, Hoyt Lakes, MN 55750
NRA Life-Member
The box said "Requires windows 98 or better", so I bought a Macintosh
HRJ92836
is that the oxygen to their brains is drastically cut off by the neckties
around their neck. Oh, by the way, Brain cells do not regenerate even after
the airflow is re-established!! Former Happy Hoofer
HRJ92836
and is on the Management "hit list". He arrives at his home for lunch at
11:30 and at 11:38 the Supervisor finds his truck parked in the driveway. So
Supervisor decides to time him. Well, it was a warm day, so Supervisor decided
to close his eyes for just a few minutes. Carrier finishes lunch and exits
front door at 11:56 and returns to next delivery, one block away. Carrier
returns to his house at 2:45 for comfort stop before returning to office.
Supervisors car is still there!! Carriers recieves 14 day suspension for
extending lunch. by three hours. (Who did he think delivered the route?)
Supervisor writes a statement that is ultimately turned over to the Union
stating " I rested my eyes and when I woke up he was still there!" Police
report showed people on that same street and block, called and reported a man
sleeping in his car at 2:40. Car was gone before they arrived. Guess Who got
his 14 days pay back? Supervisor recieved a bonus that Christmas. What a
joke!! This is a true story.
Eddie
of our winter uniform. Does this mean I'm on my way to Elefant Plaza???
eddie
SnailMale
concerns to your union officials there. They can determine if your shop steward
is looking out over your best interests. You may even consider running for shop
steward yourself.
mycr...@my-dejanews.com
hrj9...@aol.com (HRJ92836) wrote:
> This is great! The person who previously wrote "Big Brother Management is
> watching is correct?" First of all, most people here don't live in the normal
> business world, they are Post Office
>
> ".But I have never noticed a higher concentration of them in any
> >one group be it craft, management, contractors, or whomever."
>
> Since there are a heck of lot more Letter Carriers than Management, I will
> take this as a compliment.
>
carriers I was impressed by the professionalism and dedication I found. I was
proud to work with them.
> > spent about 6 years
> >on various details around the country, and now am a headquarters manager
>
> Yes, the typical "move on manager" no permance, no stability, only interested
> in the upward mobility program. getting there by the use of bodies underneath
> you, even your own (management) if necessary. Just like sharks, attack their
> own in a feeding frenzy to ensure they have a better shot at the job. Such
> loyalty! Never at Norman, Royal Oak, Dana Point, Escondido, New Jeresy, or
> the others I'll bet, that is until it was over. I'm impressed.
>
You're making some enormous assumptions there, amigo, and, predictably, you
are way off base. I might even say you are totally full of shit. I did not
say I was a manager when I was on these details and I was not. I was a level
6 clerk when they began and I was a level 6 clerk when they ended. The fact
of the matter is that I possess certain skills that were considered valuable
to OUR organization and I was asked to make use of them to better the working
environment of my fellow postal workers - primarily craft workers, although
my contributions have had a measurable effect on the entire organization at
all levels. These journeys, while admittedly both personally and
professionally rewarding, were undertaken at great personal sacrifice and for
the sole objective of improving the Postal Service at the enterprise level.
At least one of the programs I helped develop is today considered by our
largest customers as one of the best things the Postal Service has ever done,
so I would say that my personal sacrifice has indirectly benefitted every
postal worker in that I have strengthened the Postal Service's position in
the marketplace. I have not gotten anywhere "by the use of bodies
underneath" me. I was a clerk for 20 years, until January of this year.
Then a level 15 Associate Supervisor for 3 months and now a headquarters
manager (actually a program manager, I manage a program - not people, my
official title is Analyst). I took this job because I am qualified for it
and I thought it would be interesting work, not because of any obsession with
upward mobility for its own sake. I guess if I were truly obsessed I would
have made some moves before I spent 20 years in the clerk craft, now wouldn't
I?
>, there have been idiots everywhere I have gone - in every craft,
>
> >even in this
> >newsgroup.
>
> It is so typical of managent to identify a problem, now try and fix it. Nah
> they just move on. A lot of the people in this group say they have managers
> for idiots.
Sorry pal, it's not my cross to bear. Nobody works for me so it's not my
business. I'm not the idiot police, I have my own responsibilities on which
to focus.
>and I certainly do not like
> Disneyland on the Potamic, Disneyland is a great place where people laugh and
> have fun. L' Plaza is the map room for the destruction of people lives and
> their crafts and the ultimate destruction of the Post Office.
No it isn't. It's just a big office building where people go to do their
jobs. There is no nefarious plotting going on. There are no people sitting
around trying to think up ways to undermine the unions or, incredibly, the
Postal Service itself. Sober up. Stop being such a shit head. Everybody
here is just doing their job - just like anywhere else.
>Few Managers if
> any realize that IF the Letter Carriers fail - Managment will topple like a
> house of cards. No backbone, no strength, no stamina, they will just move on
> as always. Give us a break.
What, again with the baseless assumptions?
>Letter Carriers carry the weight of this business on their backs,
And lets not forget the half million other craft employees who get the mail
to the carriers, collect the postage so the carriers can get paid, perform
time keeping so the carriers receive credit for their hours worked, process
3971s so the carriers get their leave, manage Human Resource files so the
carriers get their raises, etc...etc...etc...
>Managment reaps the profits like fatcats and carpetbaggers
>from the past.
Gee, when are they going to start splitting it up? I want to make sure I get
my piece of that action!
Proud to be a United States Postal worker,
Bill Campbell
Eddie wrote:
> Good Grief!!! We have to start wearing our neckties next week as part
> of our winter uniform. Does this mean I'm on my way to Elefant Plaza???
GOOD GOD, YOU HAVE TO WEAR TIES!?!?!?!!?!?
Don't tell me, your PM requires you to wear black knee socks with your
shorts too.
Groooosssss me out!!
Eddie
(and the town were we work for that matter) places form over function.
Now there are two things that get me about the tie. 1). It's winter.
It's cold. My jacket or parka is zipped up. No one (with the execption
of the PM, who checks) is going to see my %^&##$% tie in the first
place. 2). Place a satchel of mail on your shoulder. What happens?
Your clothes shift to the side your bag is on. What happens with a tie?
It turns into a noose. If I'm blue in the face it may not be because
I'm cold!
Anyway, we now have a choice. A tie, a turtleneck, or a dickie, when
we wear a jacket.
As for the summer, we can wear any approved postal socks with our
shorts.
eddie
still breathing for a few more days
GregHerman
If you "think" your steward is selfserving, call and talk to your Union
President..
All union members can vote on union elections, not just senior carriers.
IF he. or she was not elected, but appointed but your union president, its,
most likley because NO ONE else wanted the job and this person took it.
If he got 3 of the 4 Non union folks to join up. I'd give him a pat on the
back, not a kick in the butt.
Read your contract, learn, you will soon find out more about our poor working
conditions and see what your steward has to put up with. I know he is not in it
for the money, stewars get about a dollar a day. You think he's doing a bad
job? The position goes up for bid each contract season. This is the season,
NOW, so you run for the steward job. It should be posted on the BB now or soon.
ryguy...@gmail.com
http://scholarship.law.stjohns.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2458&context=lawreview