relightning quality/taste ?

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Roger

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May 22, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/22/99
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I fnd that some of the Virginai Flake tobacco tastes better and is cooler to
the tongue and palate if you light up, let it rest for about 30 minutes and
than relight. Must be the moisture content.
Roger


Jim Beard

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May 22, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/22/99
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On 22 May 1999, Martin Steinthaler <tin...@sbox.tu-graz.ac.at> wrote ...
> I just wounder if any of you have the same experience with relights. I
> found out that some blends taste bad after a relight and others just
> taste the same than before the pipe goes out. <snip>

This does depend on the tobacco, to a large extent. You may find that
removing moisture from the air channel with a pipe cleaner before putting
the pipe aside helps avoid an off taste when you first relight.

And there are some tobacco that may taste better on a relight, after the
pipe has been allowed to cool. Too much heat and the flavor goes off; let
the pipe go out and cool, and the taste recovers.

> Do you drop your ash always when it comes to relight and the pipe is two
> thirds down the bowl ?? hm... i wounder..

Before sitting a pipe aside, or putting it in my shirt pocket, I usually
tamp the ash gently and turn the pipe upside down so any ash that really
wants to depart may do so.

Cheers!

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UNIX is not user-unfriendly. It merely
expects users to be computer-friendly.
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Martin Steinthaler

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May 23, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/23/99
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Hi all,

I just wounder if any of you have the same experience with relights. I
found out that some blends taste bad after a relight and others just

taste the same than before the pipe goes out. i.e. I puffed a bowl of
Davidoff Danish Mixture this night and at the last third of the bowl i
hade to lay down my pipe and take up the phone. After about 10 min. i
relight the pipe and the taste was somhow like burned ash and bitter.
After about 5 to 10 puffs the taste comes back to live and everything
was fine again. I often mentioned this with the Davidoff. Than a couple
of hours later i filled me a bowl with some Larsen No.50 and did exactly
the same. Here i didn't mentioned the bad taste.
Is it just luck or do have some blends the tendency to taste bad after
the relight. Or maybe is it just the amount of ash lying on top of the
unburned tobacco.


Do you drop your ash always when it comes to relight and the pipe is two
thirds down the bowl ?? hm... i wounder..

Martin !
--
Office: http://www.x-ray.at
Privat: http://www.sbox.tu-graz.ac.at/home/t/tine99
!!!!!!! don't go to a sex-shop to purchase a Viprati !!!!!!!

Mingkahuna

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May 23, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/23/99
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I have found that many Virginia tobaccos taste better on relight, even days
later. I now smoke five or six pipes over five or six days, constantly
relighting and switching from pipe to pipe. I just finished off Virginia #1 in
a Viprati that was a half bowl left from a week ago. It was wonderfully sweet
with a slightly pronounced flavor. Very often I'll light a bowl, get the pipe
going well, tamp the ashes and put the pipe down for a day or two. Some
Virginias become somewhat stronger, and the resulting taste reminds me of a
Virginia blend with just a dash of Perique. I also waste much less tobacco
with this new smoking style. Bite also is nonexistent.

Buzz

Joseph H. Kovacic, Ph.D. (Retired)

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May 23, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/23/99
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Sometimes the flavor of the tobacco is off when allowing a partially
smoked bowl to extinguish and applying a relight. Sometimes my "eyes are
bigger than my stomach." I start a bowl and leave it over night and
smoke the remainder the next day. Smokes okay to me. When I have 1/3 to
1/4 bowl of tobacco left I can't get a good light unless I dump the
ashes.

Joseph

--
"Sum, vivo existo, ergo percipio, cogito, ago."


Paul Szabady

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May 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/24/99
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You can add me to the list of "delayed-gratification" virginia smokers.
It's gotten to the point where I never smoke a bowl of Virginia
immediately upon lighting it, but only smoke enough to develop a burn and
ash. Then I put it aside for 3-8 hours, sometimes overnight.
The improvements and benefits are enormous. Yes it is partly due to the
tobacco drying out a bit (and this is a great technique for virginias
that are too wet out of the can), but I think there is also some
symbiotic osmosis going on that is near alchemical. I say this because it
also happens with tobaccos that are too dry. Bite disappears and burning
improves. Flavor gets richer and more complicated and tobaccos that seem
rather straight-forward and simple reveal a complexity and nuance that
would be lost if smoked conventionally.
I've always found virginias somewhat magical in the way they evolve and
improve as you smoke down the bowl: some of it is 'caramelization' of the
sugars as the tobaccos burn but it seems more complex than that. It could
be considered a kind of ad hoc stoving, but that doesn't account for all
the effects either.
The experience of smoking virginias evokes a musical analogy: the themes
are stated in a subdued form at the beginning of the smoke; they
intensify and evolve, combine and recombine while gaining in intensity
until they reach a climax about 2/3 - 3/4 into the bowl that is held
until one smokes through the dottle. Smoking them is indeed an aesthetic
experience.
It also appears that virginias interreact with the taste of the pipe the
most and create a symbiosis with the wood, the memory of the previous
smokes in the pipe, and a link to the wood's geographic origin and its
curing history.
The English have smoked virginia almost exclusively for over 250 years
and the fruits of that long evolution in both pipes and tobacco are a
genuine privilege to tap into.

Paul Szabady

Mingkahuna

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May 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/24/99
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>You can add me to the list of "delayed-gratification" virginia smokers.
>It's gotten to the point where I never smoke a bowl of Virginia
>immediately upon lighting it.............

As always, well said Paul. It really is magical the way that Virginias evolve
and improve. I've discussed this issue with Doug Owen and he too has
described some of the process as "stoving". It really does add greatly to the
complexity.

Buzz

John Sandin

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May 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/24/99
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In article <37498C...@ix.netcom.com>,

Paul Szabady <sza...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> You can add me to the list of "delayed-gratification" virginia smokers.

(snip)

Put me on that list, too. Paul's post says it all, especially the part about
the "symbiotic osmosis going on that is near alchemical".


--
--John Sandin
Note: claim...@my-dejanews.com is BOGUS.
To reply by e-mail, remove the "J" in the address below:
Joy...@gvi.net


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Michael George

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May 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/24/99
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On Mon, 24 May 1999 10:28:57 -0700, Paul Szabady <sza...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>You can add me to the list of "delayed-gratification" virginia smokers.
>...

Boy, Paul... I haven't been smoking long enough to really understand the
nuances of what you are explaining, but the way you said it... It reads like
a good book! I'm going to file this one away and one of these days I'm going
to try the "delayed virgina gratification" technique!

-Michael

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GEORGE <at symbol> MINTCITY <dot> COM
but in lowercase, not UPPERCASE
--
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ends in the administration of every man's farm by himself; by placing under
every one what his own eye may superintend, that all will be done for the
best.
-- Thomas Jefferson, to Joseph Cabell, 1816

Goldie

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May 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/24/99
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Man, oh, man, Paul ... sounds like your pipe smoking sessions are
really righteous experiences ... are you sure what you're smoking is
legal in Virginia?

Goldie

Martin Steinthaler

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May 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/25/99
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WOW Paul,

Well said, thanks - and more than i ever would have expected to hear.
This gives me completely new aspects to research on Virgina blends :-).
I never has thought about laying away my pipe and relight it the next
day. But what i will do today is exactly this. The search for the climax
at about 3/4 into the bowl sound very iterresting indeed even when it is
the next day.

I gonna let some pipe interact with some Virginia right now.
Martin !

--
office: http://www.x-ray.at, e-mail: ti...@x-ray.at
Privat: http://www.sbox.tu-graz.ac.at/home/t/tine99
!!!!!!! don't go to a sex-shop to purchase a VIPRATI !!!!!!!


hr...@my-deja.com

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Jun 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/1/99
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In article <37498C...@ix.netcom.com>,

Paul Szabady <sza...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>You can add me to the list of "delayed-gratification" virginia
>smokers. It's gotten to the point where I never smoke a bowl of
>Virginia immediately upon lighting it, but only smoke enough to
>develop a burn and ash. Then I put it aside for 3-8 hours, sometimes
>overnight. The improvements and benefits are enormous... [snip]

After following this thread for a few days, I decided to give it a try,
and the results are quite striking. First I tried "the trick" with Dark
Twist, which can be either excellent or mediocre for me, and I found
that it was reliably excellent, several bowls in a row.

Next came Three Nuns, which I have tried several times, and was
stumped. This tobacco seemed bland and ever so slightly bitter to me,
and I kept wondering if it is at least half burley. I tried it in a
half dozen pipes, smoking slowly and carefully, and while it was
certainly a high-quality tobacco, those little coins never turned me
on. Then I tried "the trick." Pack, light, and let rest overnight. My
first pipe of the day today was that bowl of "rested" Three Nuns, at
about 1:30 in the afternoon, and it was simply superb. Sweet, complex,
spicy, cool, and NOW I see what makes Three Nuns so special.

Once again, thank you, ASP.

- h.r. tracy


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Paul Szabady

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Jun 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/3/99
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It seems that many dedicated Virginia flake smokers have happened onto
this technique and it's good to hear to hear that it has helped you gain
access to the wonder of some exquisite tobaccos. Spread the Word!
Virginias are the sneakiest and most mercurial of tobaccos, so much so
that many pipe-smoking primers advised smokers NOT to smoke them! Ah! the
Loss!
Extracting maximum enjoyment from them does require some dedication and
if not treated right, they can seem to fall flat: being either tart and
sting-y, or flavorless. But with the correct technique, they bloom!
The other wonderful aspect to the 'delayed-gratification technique' (DGT)
is that it allows exploration of the true flavors of some of the
'lighter' flakes, which incorporate a good deal of bright virginia. Now
bright virginia has the reputation of being the worst offender in terms
of sting and flatness, but it is also true that it has the most complex
and delicate of virginia flavors and aromas: getting them to reveal
themselves is the problem.
I, like many smokers, either passed them by (favoring the darker, red and
black virginia-based flakes, and those laced with perique) or smoked them
in very rich-flavored pipes in order to raise the flavor level. The DG
technique allows the gentler, but no less satisfying flavors of these
'light' flakes to come through in all their deliciousness, richness,
sublety and complexity. It also seems to maximize the aroma the burning
tobacco produces that rises from the bowl (not the smoke, but what I call
'the nose.': it underlies and envelops the smoke).
Another technique is to smoke only 1/2 to 2/3 bowls. I came across this
by accident, when because of profligate pipe-buying, it seemed like every
pipe I smoked was being broken-in. The smaller charge allows an often
welcome shortening of the smoking time (sometimes 2-2 1/2 hours is just
too long) while still maintaining the classic crescendo/climax of the
tobacco: you just get there sooner!
Once in the climactic 'zone' the technique of 'breath smoking' comes into
play as a means of maximizing the flavor and aroma. This involves slow
and regular respiration (preferably seated and relaxed) through one's
nose, while taking only the slightest, slowest of puffs of smoke with
one's lips, to which the pipe is held constantly. Occasionally the smoke
can be released into the pipe very gently, raising just the faintest wisp
of smoke from the bowl. The 'nose' of that wisp is heavenly!
Flake smoking also seems to benefit from smaller pipes - the intimacy and
control just seem to synergize. It's also the reason why so many UK pipes
are so small: you don't need a big honker of a pipe to get a long smoke.
2 1/2 hour smokes are possible from small half-filled Peterson bulldogs
and Group 2 and 3 Dunhills. Since the US is so size-obsessed, buying the
smaller, lower-priced pipes can be a real bargain.
Finally, there is the problem of taste acclimatization. Many smokers of
very robust, very obvious flavored tobaccos (English and aromatic alike)
sometimes find Virginia flakes too 'light' or flavor-less. McClelland
used to recommend that smoking up to 4 oz. of flake Virginia was
necessary to allow the palate to adjust to the more subtle and gentler
flavors. Once adjusted to, and smoked correctly, they don't seem light at
all.
The coming of summer and its associated desire for lighter flavors in
food and tobacco is a great time for smoking straight virginia. I've just
ordered 9 new (to me) flake virginias and scored 3 Savinelli Capri/Sea
Coral/Coralo pipes along with 2 Ardors: it's going to be a good summer..

Paul Szabady

Todd Enders

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Jun 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/3/99
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In article <3756CC...@ix.netcom.com> Paul Szabady <sza...@ix.netcom.com>
writes:

> Another technique is to smoke only 1/2 to 2/3 bowls.
>
This is one of my favourite techniques for Va flakes, especially when
I don't desire, or have time, for a full-bowl, 2+ hour smoke. Also, a modified
version of the DGT works well -- start with a full bowl, smoke a while, lay the
pipe aside, come back later, smoke a while, etc., until you've consumed the
contents of the pipe. Results can be very nice on subsequent relights, not to
mention the pleasure of *starting* at or near the peak of the particular
tobacco.

> sometimes find Virginia flakes too 'light' or flavor-less. McClelland
> used to recommend that smoking up to 4 oz. of flake Virginia was
> necessary to allow the palate to adjust to the more subtle and gentler
> flavors. Once adjusted to, and smoked correctly, they don't seem light at
> all.
>

Indeed, I'm mastering the intracacies of Butera's Golden Cake at the
moment. Coming off a Latakia binge of late, I started off smoking 2010 to
reaclimatise myself and my pipes to Virginias again, before starting on
this exploration of the light side. :-) At any rate, I'm most impressed with
the Golden Cake and it's subtle flavours and aromas. After a couple days,
it certainly seems full and rich enough to be quite satisfying. One has to
be at least somewhat diciplined and patient in the smoking of it, as it *will*
sting, and the wonderful taste and boquet will close like a door slamming if
you try and hurry it.

Next excursion will be Rattray's Old Gowrie. If it's as nice as I find
Golden Cake to be, this could be the start of a long trek into lighter Va
flakes. :-) Any other suggestions as to flakes worth trying in this genre'
would be most appreciated! :-)

Todd


Juandy

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Jun 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/3/99
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>I added 7 meers,

Skipper, Just curious, where did you buy the meers? Obviously you did some
research on price vs quality. Thanks

Andy

John Roi

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Jun 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/3/99
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Esoterica's Tilbury, McClelland's Christmas Blends, Butera's Dark Stoved
& Matured Ribbon, McCranie's Red Flake, Mac Baren's Virginia& Gawith's Best
Brown. All great Virginias IMHO, John.

Greg Sprinkle

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Jun 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/3/99
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In article <7j6gg3$q4i$1...@node2.nodak.edu>,
end...@bolshoi.cc.misu.nodak.edu says...

> Next excursion will be Rattray's Old Gowrie. If it's as nice as I find
> Golden Cake to be, this could be the start of a long trek into lighter Va

> flakes. :-) Any other suggestions as to flakes worth trying in this genre'


> would be most appreciated! :-)

Todd, one tobacco I could highly recommend is Lane's Golden Danish
Slices. It has similar qualities to Golden Cake and imo has a nicer
finish. It's a very interesting flake that comes in big 2x7 inch slices.
Take a look a Kevin Cook's review on Old Gowrie...he says it reminds him
of Danish Slices, or visa versa. I find DS to be an excellent last smoke
of the day and wake up to finish it off type of thing.

Old Gowrie is on my "short list" for what's next...along with Marlin
Flake!

--
Greg Sprinkle
http://www.erols.com/gsprink

Magnulus

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Jun 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/4/99
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I ordered a sample of McClelland's Dark Navy flake several months ago. This
stuff is so moist and rubbery that I have to leave it in the pipe for a few
hours, just to get it to burn. It does seem like the flavor does change a bit.
My favorite pipe to smoke this in is my Kirsten. This is one of the few
Virginias I actually like, most others tend to have a nasty bite .
I like the taste, but I wish it were a bit sweeter. Peter Stokkebye's Navy
Flake is a bit more to my liking.

I have a tin of Dunhill's Royal Yacht, and while I find it doesn't bite per
se, if I smoke more than a pipefull of it every day or so, my mouth feels like
it's smoked something a bit hot- the tobacco developes a "citrus" like quality
halfway down. I'm not smoking as much of this as I hoped, as a result. I
like a tobacco to be an "all day smoke" at the very least, it's a let-down to
have a tobacco that tastes good but cannot be smoked more than rarely.

I evaluate a tobacco first by how well it smokes, taste is somewhat
secondary. It does no good for a pipe tobacco to taste good, but to be
virtually unsmokeable more than a few times a week. Consequently, I smoke a lot
of aromatics and Virginia/Burley mixtures. Darker Virginias also seem to be OK,
though some don't do as well as others. Latakia or Oriental blends are OK once
in a while, but like cigars, I think they border on overpowering. It depends
on what mood I'm in too, I suppose. Some days I feel like smoking more
Oriental blends, some days I don't want to smoke them at all.

John Sandin

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Jun 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/4/99
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In article <19990604000448...@ng-fv1.aol.com>,
magn...@aol.com (Magnulus) wrote:
(snip)

>
> I have a tin of Dunhill's Royal Yacht, and while I find it doesn't bite per
> se, if I smoke more than a pipefull of it every day or so, my mouth feels >like it's smoked something a bit hot- the tobacco developes a "citrus" >like quality halfway down. I'm not smoking as much of this as I hoped, >as a result. I like a tobacco to be an "all day smoke" at the very least, >it's a let-down to have a tobacco that tastes good but cannot be >smoked more than rarely.
(snip)

Royal Yacht would be my everyday smoke if I could handle the strength of it
day after day (which I can't). The tobaccos I love always seem to be too
strong, and the milder ones don't have enough flavor. I've never needed the
Delayed Gratification Technique with Royal Yacht; it's a no-brainer to
smoke, if you have a copper-lined stomach. But then maybe it's not 100%
Virginia. Anyone know?


--
--John Sandin
Note: claim...@my-dejanews.com is BOGUS.
To reply by e-mail, remove the "J" in the address below:
Joy...@gvi.net

Todd Enders

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Jun 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/5/99
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In article <7j7caf$8et$1...@news1.fast.net> "John Roi" <astr...@snip.net> writes:

>Esoterica's Tilbury,
>
In the queue... :-)

>McClelland's Christmas Blends
>
I've had the '96, '97, and '98. All quite good!

>Butera's Dark Stoved & Matured Ribbon

>McCranie's Red Flake
>Gawith's Best Brown.
>
These have been added to the "to do" list. :-)

I cracked a tin of Larsen's Old Belt last night, curiousity getting
the better of me. :-) Reminds me a little of the demised Four Square Medium
Navy Flake, but only superficially. The Old Belt has the most wonderful
boquet -- notes reminiscent of sandalwood and patchouli intermingled with
the usual cast of sweet virginia aromas. Very fragrant indeed. I liked the
room aroma very much, although one person commented that it smelled rather
like caramelised onions. :-) Not as sweet in flavour as one might expect
given the fragrant smoke. The tin aroma is very much straight tobacco, and
any casing there might be (to me, it seems not to be perfumed or otherwise
"enhanced" to any degree) is very slight. I may have to devote a pipe to
this one for awhile for the flavours to fully reveal themselves. It's very
smooth as well, and didn't have any tendency to bite or sting. Definately
recommended.

Todd


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