Loewe - again
Martin Farrent
auction), still wondering about Loewes. Here are some insights I'd like
to verify, regarding the stamps:
1) "Loewe London W.' = pre-Cardogan
2) ditto plus a shape number = pre-Cardogan, but after the sale of the
firm to Civic
3) (subjective) descending order of desirablity: pre-Civic,
pre-Cardogan, Cardogan
Any information or opinions?
Martin
Stephen B.
Loewes too, but with no luck. I would like to add to your queries, if you
don't mind? I have one that says "Inverness" that is a stunning sand blast
lovat... where does this figure in the line?
Congratulations on the winning bid, by the way.
Stephen B.
"Martin Farrent" <mar...@farrent.de> wrote in message
news:3E54B9FB...@farrent.de...
G. L. Pease
(in message <b330iv$1he4vi$1...@ID-163917.news.dfncis.de>):
> Good luck Martin. I, like others here, have been looking for some info on
> Loewes too, but with no luck. I would like to add to your queries, if you
> don't mind? I have one that says "Inverness" that is a stunning sand blast
> lovat... where does this figure in the line?
Interesting. I have an Inverness marked Loewe that is a long, pencil
shanked, light, smooth finished billiard. I had at one point thought the
name was the shape, a la Sasieni, but that seemed to be disproved when I
found another light, smooth Inverness lovat. Now, you have a sandblasted
one, and the only rhyme or reason to be found is that it is, indeed,
their name for the lovat shape, and my example was re-stemmed with a
longer, tapered stem.
This one is London W.
-glp
--
Gregory Pease
Principal Tobacco Alchemist
G. L. Pease Tobaccos, Intl.
http://www.glpease.com
Stephen B.
Inverness referred to the finish or quality, ala GBD. Your examples, with
mine, would seem to imply that Inverness designates the shape. I think we
have gotten to the bottom of one of the Loewe mysteries.
-Stephen B.
"G. L. Pease" <g...@glpease.com> wrote in message
news:0001HW.BA7A4A20...@News.CIS.DFN.DE...
Martin Farrent
>
> Mine has the London W. also, but I had assumed, wrongly I see, that
> Inverness referred to the finish or quality, ala GBD. Your examples, with
> mine, would seem to imply that Inverness designates the shape. I think we
> have gotten to the bottom of one of the Loewe mysteries.
Stephen and Greg,
This is indeed the case. I have an Inverness, too. It's a lovat.
The shape names were used before the shape numbers emerged. Does anyone
know when that was?
Martin
Sonam Dasara
wrote:
Hi Martin,
I own a Loewe - I consider it to be my finest pipe - it can stand
up to most any Dunhill, and can tell you this: I remember when I
purchased it - May of 1967 from WALLY FRANK near City Hall in NYC - I
paid $17.50 for it, on sale! It is marked: "Loewe" and then the
shape, "Bickley".
Hope this helps!
Cordially,
Sonam Dasara
tr...@elecREMOVEtric-ink.com
ELECTRIC INK WEB DESIGN STUDIO
WEB SITE DEVELOPMENT - Individual and Corporate
www.electric-ink.com
Stephen B.
dealer's stamp, because my Bickley also has a number on it... Mine is a
canted billiard with a curved saddle stem. What's yours?
-Stephen B.
"Sonam Dasara" <tr...@elecREMOVEtric-ink.com> wrote in message
news:u1aa5vo0t418hb3ld...@4ax.com...
G. L. Pease
(in message <b33290$1ig13d$1...@ID-163917.news.dfncis.de>):
> Mine has the London W. also, but I had assumed, wrongly I see, that
> Inverness referred to the finish or quality, ala GBD. Your examples, with
> mine, would seem to imply that Inverness designates the shape. I think we
> have gotten to the bottom of one of the Loewe mysteries.
Perhaps, but it's left me in a quandry. As I look at this pipe, now, I
see a lovat. That's a favoured shape for me, and having this long,
incorrect stem on the pipe will drive me to tbe brink of madness. (For
those who think I've already leapt from that particular cliff, keep your
fingers busy with something other than typing. I'm talkin' here.) Perhaps
I'll shorten the stem and turn it into a little liverpool, or else I'll
have a new stem done to make it like the original. All this over a silly
pipe...
I've been really impressed with the old Loewes I've had. There are some
really beautiful pieces out there, and they can often be had for bargain
prices. Now that everyone seems to have discovered older GBDs (no thanks
to those of us who have been enthusiastic about them...), parhaps its
time to turn my attention to these great old pipes. I know so little
about them, but what I've seen, I've liked. Their blasts aren't special,
but the smooths are often very lovely.
This partiular Inverness came to me while I was developing the blend by
that name. Naturally, the pipe became dedicated to the blend, and I've
smoked nothing else in it since. Since there's no more Inverness, but the
Inverness is still here, I guess it's time to rededicate it...
Enough...but one more thing: Thanks, Martin, for doing some legwork on
the stamping. Maybe we can get some history going, and put together
something of substance.
Cheers,
Greg
Len
the "L&Co" logo in the oval on both the shank and stem. Below the logo
on the shank is stamped "CENTURION" in block letters, which I believe
to be a grade indicating that the briar used was supposed to be 100
years old. On the other side of the shank is LOEWE in block letters
and under that is LONDON W.
On the bottom of the shank is SHEFFIELD, which I assume is the shape,
and MADE IN ENGLANd inside a small circle with MADE curving around the
top of the circle. ENGLAND curving around the bottom, and IN straight
and in the middle.
It's a lovely little thing, very densely grained, thin walled and
virtually weightless, maybe a group 2 or 3 in size. Wonderful flake
pipe. Paid next to nothing for it and wish I had a dozen more.
Chris Keene
wrote:
This thread is confusing, but since this seems to apply, I have a
smooth pencil shanked billiard marked:
Left side: L&Co [in an oval] above the word "ORIGINAL"
Right side: "LOEWE" above "LONDON. W.
Bottom: "PASTIME"
Don't know if that confirms, confuses, or simply adds useless
information.
-Chris
Sonam Dasara
wrote:
>Bickley is the shape? I have one, also and I had thought this was a
>dealer's stamp, because my Bickley also has a number on it... Mine is a
>canted billiard with a curved saddle stem. What's yours?
>
>-Stephen B.
>
Hi Stephen,
Yes, Bickley is the shape, and a graceful pipe at that, eh? After
reading the other posts, I examined mine more closely, and saw the
oval "L&Co." logo with the word "Centurion" stamped below it, but on
the opposite side of the shank. I didn't remember that Centurion
indicated that the briar was aged 100 years, but it sure is a nice
pipe!
Ciao,
Sonam
tr...@elecREMOVEtric-ink.com
ELECTRIC INK STUDIO
WEB SITE DEVELOPMENT AND DESIGN - Individual and Corporate
www.electric-ink.com
Stephen B.
it having a number on it. I was not at home when I wrote that and
remembered incorrectly.
-Stephen B.
"Sonam Dasara" <tr...@electriREMOVEc-ink.com> wrote in message
news:oqua5vos6uoddn7l5...@4ax.com...
Martin Farrent
The space under the logo seems to be have used for two different
purposes: a) for the shape stamp (my lovat is stamped 'INVERNESS'
there), b) for other information pertaining to a series ('CENTURION'=
100 yrs old wood?, 'ORGINAL' = ?).
I'll briefly recapitulate what we know or can deduce:
Once, Loewes had a shape name, no number. They were made in the original
shop in the Haymarket, London, and stamped 'Loewe', 'London W.'. They
also bore the logo and shape name stamp. Some may have had a series
stamp, too, though this could be a later innovation. There appears to
have been a transitional period, when shapes were denoted both by names
and numbers. Later, only numbers were used.
We still don't know how this correlates with the ownership issue. The
original shop was taken over by Civic in 1960 (?) and production was
later moved to other Civic premises in London. Cardogan took over in
19xx? and shifted production to Southend-on-Sea. We can assume that the
'London W.' stamp was then dropped, though none of us appears to have a
pipe from the ongoing Cardogan era. Perhaps someone can help us with
stamping information for these pipes.
As far as quality goes, Loewe's reputation was built in the Haymarket
era. We know that pipes made under the Cardogan regime no longer command
the respect the original ones had. We're unsure about the impact of the
earlier takeover by Civic on quality/collectibility.
Can anyone clarify the blurry bits?
Best,
Martin
Es schrieb "Stephen B.":
Martin Farrent
The shape stamp is on the bottom of the shank. So the additional stamps
underneath the logo refer to a series. There are three such stamps on my
pipes: 'CENTURION', 'MOUNTED' and 'ORIGINAL'. So there's no confusion
left on this count. The rest of my earlier post still applies.
Martin
Es schrieb Martin Farrent:
Danpipes of Denmark
<snip>
> Cardogan took over in
> 19xx? and shifted production to Southend-on-Sea. We can assume that the
> 'London W.' stamp was then dropped
Unfortunately we can't assume that. Orlik and BBB pipes are still 'London
Made' even though Cadogan makes them in Southend-om-Sea so I don't see why
the company would be more 'honest' on Loewes.
Cheers, Jesper
--
Pipes from Denmark
Martin Farrent
an attempt to glean information from Cadogan (who haven't answered
yet... and may prefer not to, since detailed discussion of their brands'
history may not be their favourite topic :-) )
Loewe (shop and factory) was founded by the Frenchman Emil Loewe at
the Haymarket, London in 1856. It is claimed that he was the first to
produce briar pipes in England. The facilities and company were later
taken over by Civic. At some time in the 1960s, production was moved to
other Civic premises in London.
According to one author, the brand may have been discontinued
temporarily in 1977. This date may have some significance, since, in
1979, this author (either J. Verdaguer or Helmut Diehl, an editor) wrote
that the pipes were to be marketed as high-end GBDs in future. 1979 was
the year the Loewe trademark became Cadogan's, who - by then - also
owned GBD. However, Cardogan's various brands continued to be made in
separate factories - at least for a while. It was the purchase of Orlik
in 1980 which enabled the group to consolidate manufacturing in that
company's new factory in Southend-on-Sea. Whether or not this move was a
gradual process is not known to me. We know that the company Loewe was
not formally wound up by Cadogan (Civic's successor) until the late
1980s. Today's 'Loewes' are made in Southend. The brand is little more
than a label.
In the 60s (and maybe later) the stamps appear to have been:
Right side of shank (seen from the smoker's perspective): 'LOEWE',
'LONDON W.', sometimes also: Made in England
Left side of shank: Logo 'L&Co' plus series name, e.g. 'CENTURION'
(denoting wood 100 years old)
Bottom of shank: Shape name, e.g. 'INVERNESS' (= Lovat)
At some stage, shape names were replaced by shape numbers incorporating
three digits and beginning with a 9. For example, a 910 was a billiard.
We know that these numbers were used around 1980. We do not know when
the switch from names to numbers took place. It could have been in the
late 70s, but possibly earlier.
By studying the website of one UK dealer I was able to deduce that
the present shape numbers (early 2003) differ from those used around
1980. For example, a Billiard is now a 28, a Lovat an 834, a
Canadian a 296. Some shape numbers now have 4 digits.
Still some blanks for you, guys :-)
Martin
Martin Farrent
Cadogan, who have just replied to my request for more information.
They do not make many pipes under the Loewe brand, nowadays. Those that
are produced still bear a London stamp. The shapes are numbered, rather
than named - but name stamps are still available on request.
Es schrieb Martin Farrent:
Michael Karrengarn
first of all I have to say hello to all asp-fellows.
I think I am posting here for the first time.
To introduce myself: I am 42 years old, pipesmoker since 1979 and a
fellow of the german newsgroup de.alt.fan.tabak.
Maybe I have some information concerning Loewe-pipes. I have two of
these great smokers and they are stamped as follows:
first pipe - a silver-spigot pot
left side of the shank: L&Co in an oval (really hard to read)
SPIGOT
right side of the shank: LOEWE
LONDON W.
911
the hallmarks on both - the application on the shank and on the
mouthpiece are identical and show
L&Co in an oval
three signs
(the first seems to be a lion, I do not know what the second sign
shows and
the third sign shows a Capital "D": due to
http://www.daft.de/artikel/a1/datierliste.html this indicates the year 1978)
second pipe - a pot with a silver band on the shank
left side of the shank: L&Co in an oval
MOUNTED
right side of the shank: LOEWE
LONDON W. (the W. is hard to read)
911
the hallmark is identical to the hallmark on the silver-spigot pot, so
this pipe seems to be made also in 1978
So the number 911 seems to indicate the pot
and the switch from shape names to shape numbers was done in 1978 or
earlier.
Hope this helps.
Smoke in peace
Michael
Martin Farrent
> Maybe I have some information concerning Loewe-pipes. I have two of
> these great smokers and they are stamped as follows: <SNIP>
Following Michaels information and other details I have received by
e-mail, we can be fairly certain of Loewe's early stamping pattern and
that of the late 70s/early 80s. However, nobody has reported a dateable
(hallmarked) pipe from the late 60s to mid 70s. This would appear to be
the period when the switch from shape names to numbers took place.
Another piece of missing information is the exact year the company left
the Haymarket premises (sometime in the 60s).
Can anyone help?
Martin
G. L. Pease
(in message <b36j09$1fmffu$1...@ID-116008.news.dfncis.de>):
> (the first seems to be a lion, I do not know what the second sign shows
> and
> the third sign shows a Capital "D": due to
> http://www.daft.de/artikel/a1/datierliste.html this indicates the year 1978)
There's a fantastic page for decoding hallmarks on:
http://www.ragbone.com/hallmarks/
The hallmarks are shown clearly. It's an excellent resource.
-glp
Crwydryn
wrote:
[snip]
Blanks and all, excellent legwork Martin. I'm in no hurry to get my
hands on a Loewe, but the whole process of exchanges here in ASP has
stepped up my enthusiasm for the collecting aspect of our hobby.
Thanks for sharing your data!
--
Kevyn Winkless kevyn canada.com
Water for oxen, wine for kings.
Spanish Proverb
Martin Farrent
> but the whole process of exchanges here in ASP has
> stepped up my enthusiasm for the collecting aspect of our hobby.
> Thanks for sharing your data!
I've just about finished an article for Ian's site, Kevyn. Lots of
people contributed information, here and by e-mail (and also in the
German newsgroup Daft). Though many questions remain open, I think I'm
now able to provide the outlines of a dating guide and define the exact
input missing for a more precise one.
Right now, I'm ready to shoot as soon as I've received more stamping
info on a single pipe made in 1967 (hallmark proof). If its stamps don't
surprise me, the article's ready. If they do, the article will benefit
even more.
Anybody interested in doing work of this kind should note that one can
expect far more responses than the public ones apparent in the newsgroup
itself. Many people appear more willing to offer their knowledge by
private e-mail. The brands now belonging to the Cadogan group were
almost all considered great, once. It might be fun to have a complete
guide on the asp site. I'm sure we have plenty of posters and lurkers
who would help compile some more material on this. Maybe someone would
be interested in coordinating a research effort on BBB or Comoy's.
Best,
Martin
Stephen B.
sources about Loewe, which has always seemed a mystery. Funny, how we all
know and respect the company, but know so little about it. Hopefully your
article will clear up some of the murky waters.
Well done, Martin,
Stephen B.
"Martin Farrent" <mar...@farrent.de> wrote in message
news:3E58B230...@farrent.de...
Martin Farrent
>
> I look forward to your culmination of facts gleaned through all of these
> sources about Loewe, which has always seemed a mystery. Funny, how we all
> know and respect the company, but know so little about it. Hopefully your
> article will clear up some of the murky waters.
I hope that the article will enable us to assign Loewes to periods,
Stephen. The beginnings and ends of these periods will remain blurry,
for now, as will their exact correlation to corporate history etc.. But
guesses will be made and we can hope that enough people stumble across
the piece to provide the missing information. The emphasis is on Loewes
made from 1960 - during the decades when the major changes occurred. But
some older pipes will be mentioned briefly.
Best,
Martin
Stephen B.
Cadogen period would be interesting to uncover. I have tried every search I
could, every where I could to help your endeavors, but there simply is
nothing out there on the web that's worth mentioning.
Hopefully, like you say, some old codger will stumble across your research
and yield some more.
-Stephen B.
"Martin Farrent" <mar...@farrent.de> wrote in message
news:3E5917E8...@farrent.de...
Martin Farrent
>
> It will indeed be a beginning, but eventually the 100 or so years before the
Stephen, the article now sent to Ian covers the years just before the
Cadogan period most extensively. The practical purpose of this is to
help people avoid the pipes made in Southend :-) It also contains a few
hints which may be helpful in dating pipes made before 1960, though this
will require further research.
Of course, defining a 'Cadogan period' is probably hardest of all, since
Cadogan's influence on the brands it acquired was gradual - Cadogan
itself developed from a cooperative to a more unified organisation over
the decades (as Elrond says, nothing is evil in the beginning, "even
Sauron was not so"... not really fair, because I don't think Cadogan can
be made responsible for all the factors leading to the decline in their
pipes' desirability... but when did I start caring about fairness? <G>).
Best,
Martin
Larry Spencer
as lets say Dunhills. Loewe stampings do change after 1960, before that
Loewe was part of amalgamation founded in the 1920's as the "Merger", which
included, Comoy, BBB, GBD, and of course Loewe. This company was the Civic
company and Oppenheimer Pipes. The pipes manufactured today are a mere
shadow of their former glory. The pipe making process was continued by the
original companies untl the 1960's when a new direction was determined.
Cadogan Investments took over in 1992. Good luck in your pursuits. Cadogan
has all the relevant files, I'm sure, one more thing, Loewe's at one time
sold for more than Dunhill's.
"Stephen B." <boz...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:b3auo5$1k2cao$1...@ID-163917.news.dfncis.de...
Stephen B.
am about to go check on Martin's essay which Ian has put on the sight. I am
sure it is a good starting point for what I hope will eventually become the
complete history.
Regards,
Stephen B.
" Larry Spencer" <spence...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b3c39g$1kupnv$1...@ID-99151.news.dfncis.de...
Keith Reardon
HI,
Mine says Loewe,London,Centurian,Inverness,Made in England, and has a
brass L&CO on the stem. Its a Lovat too...nice pipe.
Keith
Stephen B.
Enjoy that complete pipe in your collection,
Stephen B.
"Keith Reardon" <kreardo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8f28f363.0302...@posting.google.com...