French pipes- thoughts?
Sykes Wilford
basically curious for two reasons-- we sell them and I'm possibly interested
in getting a BC for myself in the next month or two.
The problem is that I hear incredibly mixed reviews from "the best smoking
pipe I've ever owned" to "varnished, hot smoking POS"-- and that's just
among Butz Choquin. Certain Italian makers have a widespread following in
the US, but I've never been able to discern anything of the sort for any
French maker-- you know, a collector here, a collector there, but they
simply don't have the large following.
Do you think this is because of the pipes themselves or the result of
marketing, relative newness of the brand in the US market etc?
This really came up for me because I'm sitting here measuring BCs and they
are very pretty and it sorta got me thinking about French pipes in the US in
general. Additionally, I recently received a French book on pipes (a gift
from my Francophile mother-- God knows where she found it). If one were to
determine the nature of pipe making in the world based on this book, there
are perhaps four reputable makers in the world outside of France. Indeed,
though the book maintains that it is on pipes the world over, it's really
about French makers with three pages on other countries. Now, knowing the
French, it is not surprising that there is considerable emphasis on domestic
pipe production; however, the level of disregard for foreign makers seems
extreme even for the French.
The book is dated and probably out of print, but if anyone is interested,
I'll translate a few examples of what I mean from it.
Basically, I have no idea where I'm going with this one, but I am interested
to hear what this august forum thinks of French pipes in general. I'd be
particularly interested to learn what our European, and specifically French,
friends think of this.
Thanks, sorry for the verbosity of that-- when I'm not sure of something, I
seem to have a habit of rambling on in a (usually) futile attempt to make my
point clear.
Sykes
--------------------------------------------
F. Sykes Wilford
www.smokingpipes.com
swil...@smokingpipes.com
(888) 366 0345
"The internet's premier source for the finest
smoking instruments in the world"
-------------------------------------------
Creedmoor Chronicles, Ltd. (Tirana, Albania)
irresponsible , not that I miss it), a high grade Chacom, a Jacky Berrod
(the highest grade of BC) and perhaps 5 Courrieu's, all of which I remember
having purchased in Paris - and frankly, not one of them is among my regular
rotation. The Berrod is the best of a rather mediocre lot. I became
interested in importing Courrieu pipes here in Russia until I broke the
shank of one of mine under normal usage conditions; I decided not to pursue
my contacts with Courrieu any further.
Ian
Tim Wisner
picked up about 20 years ago. I do have a BC on the way (looking
forward to it this week!). My one Jobey pipe is American, so I guess
that leaves me with one pipe's worth of French smoking experience. It
has been a great pipe.
Booty is in the eye of the bee holder.
Tim W
Most of my pipes are Italian. It just happened that way.
On Sun, 17 Feb 2002 13:14:43 -0600, "Sykes Wilford"
<swil...@smokingpipes.com> wrote:
>I'm very curious to discover what y'all think of French pipes. I'm
>basically curious for two reasons-- we sell them and I'm possibly interested
>in getting a BC for myself in the next month or two.
"It's amazing what you can do with a little motivation and a lot of whiskey"
- Seven Nations
Martin Farrent
cheapest, BTW) is so appalling that I've sort of "lost it on purpose" in
the office. The other pipes are fine, but not outstanding. Of them all,
the Ropp (not a cherrywood one) is probably the best smoker.
Martin
Bear Graves
have owned over the years a couple of Chacoms, and 4 BC's. Frankly, the chacoms
were "ok", and the BC's flat out sucked. Hardly a scientific survey, but I'd
thought I'd relate what little experience that I've had with them.
Best,
--
Bear Graves
"Leave the gun, take the Cannolis"
-Clemenza, The Godfather
The Cicero's
agree with Bear.....BC's suck...big time...especially their stems which for
the most part, are big and fat and lucite (I truly dislike lucite unless
it is a very thin fish tail).......my 2 cents.....
Regards,
Mark Cicero
"Sykes Wilford" <swil...@smokingpipes.com> wrote in message
news:a4ovfl$1pcrp$1...@ID-107076.news.dfncis.de...
Colonel Panic
alt.smokers.pipes:
>Sykes, while I'm not an authority on French Pipes (though I play one on TV), I
>have owned over the years a couple of Chacoms, and 4 BC's. Frankly, the chacoms
>were "ok", and the BC's flat out sucked. Hardly a scientific survey, but I'd
>thought I'd relate what little experience that I've had with them.
I've owned several BC and Chacom pipes and had much the same
experience as Bear did, though I do have an early 70's era Gefapip
Rhodesian that will forever remain in my rotation. It's got a small
bowl, a horn floc, a thin comfortable vulcanite stem and it smokes
very true and sweet.
'Tain't much, but it's a data point!
Reg'ds,
Terry
[3097.3 km, 290.1] Apparent Rennerian
--
I don't mind going nowhere, as long as it's an interesting path.
Ronald S. Ipock
would a French ice skating judge.
James Kime
>Rhodesian that will forever remain in my rotation.
Damn...Evertime I hear someone mention a Gefapip, it is always the rhodesian.
Kinda interesting. The Gefapip rhodesian I have is my aromatic smoker.
I have a BC that smokes very sweet, but it was given to me for free by a nice
ASPer, and I abused the already worn bit, so it has a huge hole at top. Other
than that, (which has nothing to do with the quality of the pipe, just my
clenching) it smokes a little wet, being a full bent. It has a nice lucite band
that is like marble or bone.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Most guys my age look at porn online, I look at pipes...check out the shank on
THAT one...
Mark Covello
best smokers of them. It also holds a lot of tobacco, although the
bowl doesn't look that big. It's not as handsome as most other pipes
I've owned, though. I received it as a gift about 20 years ago.
Mark
"Sykes Wilford" <swil...@smokingpipes.com> wrote in message news:<a4ovfl$1pcrp$1...@ID-107076.news.dfncis.de>...
> I'm very curious to discover what y'all think of French pipes. I'm
> basically curious for two reasons-- we sell them and I'm possibly interested
> in getting a BC for myself in the next month or two.
...
Robert Blair
Wade's, I have and have had several French made pipes. In fact, 3 of my
GBD's are French made. The first Prince that I ever bought, and still have,
is a BC "c'est bon" with a lucite bit that I bought back in the 70's. I
would rate any of these as good as their English counterparts of the same
vintage. Can't speak for the current crop, so don't know if they are any
good now or not. IIRC, all briar pipe making started in Sainte Claude back
in the eighteenth century. Everyone else were still making pipes out of
clay, porcelain or meerschaum. Maybe Manfred or one of the other members
from the Continent can elaborate for us.
Cheers,
Bob
__________________________________________
"To me, Latakia and Vanillacherrymangomintcream
is not a harmonious partnership."
--Greg Pease on ASP
James Reazor
to Luxembourg. I had just started smoking a Boswell a few weeks prior and
was so taken with the city that I wanted a pipe to commemorate the trip.
Now, I was pretty naive at the time and was mesmerized by the smooth glossy
finish on the wood, imagine my horror when the varnish started to peel away
from the edge of the tobacco hole the first time I lit it up. The I was
rather confused when I couldn't get a pipe cleaner through it. I removed the
stem to find a funky metal post screwed on to it. Until that day I didn't
know either condition existed anywhere in the pipe world. Quite an
eye-opener. I still have the pipe as a memento and smoke it every now and
then but I've decided that bents suite me better anyway.
-James
"Mark Covello" <avaloki...@angelfire.com> wrote in message
news:968fd3f9.02021...@posting.google.com...
TreverTalbert
possible, as well as going there and living with a French pipemaker, I will
offer a few thoughts and vague generalizations. Firstly, the French
pipemaking scene is the original - they can argue the oldest pipemaking
tradition in Europe and the store of knowledge is incredible there.
However, they seem (from my experiences at least) to tend more toward the
large factory-produced pipes than the sort of flourishing individual artisan
scene as exemplified by Italy or Denmark or the USA. There simply aren't a
lot of French artisan makers. The few present are among the best in the
world however - Gerard Prugnaud (and I will herewith begin mangling spelling
and proper use of accented characters with frightening frequency) is
arguably the best clay pipemaker on the planet and Phillipe Bargiel's
meerschaums are legendary. BC makes an extremely wide price and quality
range so it's difficult to judge or dismiss the entire line based on limited
experiences. Their lower grades are affordable and comparable to most
typical $50-$125 factory pipes that I've seen (in fact I had a BC Cavalier
for a long time that was a very enjoyable smoke, and I only ended up selling
it because I am an incredibly lazy bastard when it comes to pipecleaning and
I got tired of cleaning the plug). They are lacquered but so are most other
factory pipes, including many of the favorite brands from Italy and England.
The top-line BC's can be very nice pipes indeed. Patrice showed me his
personal collection while I was there and he had several BCs of a quality
level that I have not seen in US shops. To put it bluntly, they were effing
gorgeous! Pierre Morel is, IMO, one of the best pipe designers in the world
and I have admired the grace and fluidity of his lines for 10 years now. I
will go out on a limb and put forth my idea that the main reason that French
pipes aren't as known and respected in the US is simply because of the
French marketing style....which, by US consumer expectations, is
nonexistent. This attitude was really exemplified by the BC factory heads
in the Uptown's video on them, where they shrugged and said they basically
did not understand why they needed to advertise... they just assumed that
they could make a nice pipe and that people would come to them to buy it.
Another stumbling block is the language. The French have traditionally been
more resistant to learning and doing business in English (though this is
changing), and you know how well that plays to the average American. We
definitely have not experienced the best pipes nor presentation of pipes
that France has to offer (kind of like our collective memories of Renault...
a shambling maker of lousy instant-disintegration cars which has, since
leaving our shores and vanishing from US consciousness, morphed into a
genuine quality nameplate...though I think I'd still prefer one of those
little Citroen GTIs). If you're thinking of stocking French pipes my
suggestion would be to go low and high - they make excellent low dollar
pipes and high dollar pipes while being a little soft in the middle (I
should talk!). I'm not entirely sure that the whole BC line is available
here though - at least I have never seen in shops the sort of BCs that I
encountered over there in the collection of a man who had visited them in
St. Claude. FWIW, YMMV, FOT9F, etc
--
Happy smoking,
Trever
http://www.talbertpipes.pair.com
Bill Burney
French pipe - a BC rocbrune billiard. It has a very comfortable vulcanite
bit and it smokes wonderfully. I bought it as an estate pipe from Glenn
Brooks (hi, Glenn!) and have never regretted it. It has the regular push
mortise and tenon (no condensor or filter). Maybe I was just lucky.
Bill
Hans H. Siegrist
times at BC, EWA, Gefapip and the likes before I bought a straight
grain (well, rather a flame grain) Courrieu half bent pot in their
shop at Cogolin for the equivalent of US$135. Browsing through their
huge number of pipes on offer I found the whole range of basket pipes
to unique and marvellous beauties. So choose carefully before you
decide.
BTW, the Courrieu smokes wonderfully and is has become of my favourite
flake pipes.
Cheers, Hans
"Sykes Wilford" <swil...@smokingpipes.com> wrote in message news:<a4ovfl$1pcrp$1...@ID-107076.news.dfncis.de>...
MWR
olympian spirit?
MWR
"Ronald S. Ipock" <smon...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:p9u07usogq4tejpa0...@4ax.com...
Serge André
I'm not 100% pure French made... and I'm living in Brussels (Belgium).
However I've been a pipesmoker for more than thirty-five years and I have a
relatively good knowledge of most of the French brands pipes that are on the
market.
First I will definitely disqualify low range brands as Chacom, Ropp,
Courieu, Jeantet (even if one can get a bit of luck and get a good pipe - a
chance in a hundred...). I own one Chacom and one Jeantet which I bought in
the end of the sixties and which are good (good, not very good) smokers. The
other I'd bought were so bad that I threw them in the garbage can years ago
!
About the Butz-Choquin, the matter is more complex.
1) They have a rather complicated gradation system and they regularly
introduce some new names into.
2) That system seems to differ from one country to another (for example, on
your website, you put the "Maître Pipier" grade into the "Gold BC" category
even though they are ranked, here in France and Belgium, only in the "Silver
BC" category).
3) In all names and grades which are under the starred "Gold BC" (from one
to five stars), there are such significant differences in the quality of the
briar that it's quite impossible to find one's bearings. In other words,
it's impossible to identify a distinctive feature, particularly a
characteristic taste, that could set a Butz-Choquin, whatever it is, in the
classification, apart from the other BC or from any other pipes brands.
I have a very common "Montaigne" (one of the BC lower grades) which is
flawless and smokes as good as a Comoy's. I also have a "Maître Pipier"
(Silver BC) which is a very poor piece of wood : a lot of fills and, above
all, a terrible sour taste. I got it as a gift from a friend (he knew
nothing about pipes) and I know he payed the price of a sandblated Davidoff
or a two-notes Don Carlos for it ! I also have two Gold BC "Three Stars" :
they are good pipes, well done, a little too heavy for my jaws and not
exactly the design I like, but flawless and pleasant smokers. But currently
they are prohibitively overpriced : here in Belgium and in France, they are
more expensive than a Dunhill Bruyere group 5 !!! (not to mention Les Wood
and Ashton that I can buy for less than half of these Gold BC ...)( Of
course, I know that the prices, here in Europe, are quite different from
what you have to pay in US...).
In conclusion, I think that only the starred Gold BC could be reliable
pipes. Under that grade, you can get, not the best but the good and the
worse. Now it's up to you to decide if their very high prices are worth or
not...
By the way, you may know that the Jura hills (the St Claude region) is one
of the most rainy part of France (it should obviously be of some consequence
on the briar). But do you know that this area is also one of the three
European areas which were most soaked by the Tchernobyl contaminated
rainfalls years ago ? Next time you have to choose a batch of BC pipes,
don't forget to inspect them with a Geiger counter ...;-) or :-((
Best regards.
S.A.
Sykes Wilford a écrit dans le message ...
Mike Rothenberg
don't think I'll buy one unless I happen to be in France. There are
just too many other pipes out there that are better. However, to give
them their due, the French produce a lot of bowls that are bought and
used for making pipes in other countries, especially England. I
believe Les Wood gets bowls from France, but that is what I have heard
and it may not be true.
James Reazor
collection last night I realized that one of my favorite pipes is a Chacom
that I purchased right here in the great commonwealth of Virginia. It's a
nice little half bent with a military bit. It's stamped "Robusto". The
bowl's a little small but it's a perfect quick smoke and is very comfortable
between the teeth. It smokes cool and dry and lacks the condenser that it's
Luxembourgian counterpart has. I don't have any Castellos or Dunhills to
compare it to as I generally operate in the $50.00 to $100.00 range but this
pipe is as good as anything else I have.
-James
"James Reazor" <JRe...@home.com> wrote in message
news:b90c8.70146$8d1.22...@news1.rdc1.md.home.com...
rhodog
I live in Belgium. France is our neighbour, so we have lots of French
pipes in our pipe stores. I don't know the American market very well,
but I'm familiar with most of the US internet retailers. What is
evident to me, is that in the States you don't have the best pieces
from the French pipe makers. Obviously the best French pipes stay in
Europe and end up in the stores of retailers who have good relations
with Butz, Chacom, Morel and so on. Take my favourite pipe store. The
owner is a member of the Confrérie des maîtres pipiers de St.Claude
and he always has some superb French pipes in stock. One can even
order hand made pieces to one's own specifications. Even though my
favourite pipes are Italian, I own a dozen of high quality French
pipes. They're all without exception excellent smokers. Why ? Well,
those traditional French pipe makers of St. Claude are sitting on a
big stock of old briar that has been very well seasoned in the
traditional way. The only thing one could hold against French pipe
makers, is the fact they're generally not really interested in
bringing out the beauty of the grain. So most of the time, even if the
French pipes are very well executed and have harmonious shapes, they
don't present the beauty of Italian, Danish or German pipes. But
obviously, the same thing could be held against the English makers,
isn't it. Nowadays I don't by cheap pipes anymore. But in the
seventies I bought several French machine made pipes for peanuts. All
these pipes are more than respectable smokers. Some of them are
outstanding. Not even Stanwell can deliver a cheap pipe that smokes
that well. So American pipe smokers, come on over to Europe, look for
a traditional pipe shop and discover some really nice French smokers,
not the junk I see on most American pipe retailer's websites.
John Offerdahl
is carved to the head of a Native American chief. The pipe has a
vulcanite stem. I don't smoke it that often, but when I do it is
always a real pleasure. The pipe is cool and sweet. I can't judge a
pipemaker, or the pipes of a certain nationality, by one piece, but
I'm certainly happy with my BC.
"Sykes Wilford" <swil...@smokingpipes.com> wrote in message news:<a4ovfl$1pcrp$1...@ID-107076.news.dfncis.de>...
TreverTalbert
brands is stunning. For a simple example, see this page on my site and
scroll down to the pics toward the bottom that show the shelves of boxes-
http://www.talbertpipes.pair.com/France/trip2.htm
Each of those boxes holds 100 pre-fraised stummels and that is only the tip
of the iceberg - just what one maker has in his home storage. There are
some, ahem, very familiar English brand shapes among these too. There are
probably many popular lines that we think of as being from other countries
which are actually French in origin.
Jim Beard
Sykes Wilford wrote:
> I'm very curious to discover what y'all think of French pipes.
To start off in plain and simple fashion, if I am at an estate sale
and I find a pipe marked MADE IN FRANCE, I look upon it in the same
way I look upon pipes marked GENUINE BRIAR, ALGERIAN BRIAR, and
IMPORTED BRIAR. This is not to say I would not buy the pipe if it
appeared to be well made and I liked the looks of it, and the price
were right, but the rebuttable presumption is that it would be
better left for a bigger fool to purchase.
That said, the French make lots of pipes in Saint Claude, and have
been doing so for many decades. They must know something about pipe
making, and make some truly fine pipes, if only by accident. And
one may bear in mind that for the first few years Alfred Dunhill
imported stummels from France to be finished in London, and for a
while during the 1990s the modern-day Dunhill did the same.
Somehow, the French have just never gained a reputation for quality
briars, despite the briar pipe having originated in France. When
Comoy was competing to be most prestigeous, they first started
having the stummels finished in London and eventually moved the
entire operation to the UK. Made in France just did not sell, even
way back when. And there has been a long, long tradition of some
of the best stummels turned in Saint Claude being shipped to London
for finishing, as the "London Made" pipe would command a much higher
price.
Pipes and Tobaccos ran a lengthy article on BC a few years ago. My
perception of this French company was that it was more interested in
fashion and attempts (in vain, so far as I could see) to create a
fad than it was in the smoking qualities of their pipes produced.
Perhaps those interviewed simply take smoking quality for granted,
because "they, as Frenchmen, must know everything worth knowing
about everything that interests them, including how to make quality
smoking instruments." But the article did nothing to convince me I
should buy a BC pipe, for any reason.
I do have a BC Chatelaine, picked up unsmoked (and cheap, I might
add) at an estate sale, simply because it looked like it might be
an all-right smoker. Surprisingly (to me), it proved to be
excellent. Not among my top-tier pipes, but in good standing.
So, this review does nothing to straighten out the mixed reviews
heard from other quarters. Yes, they must make some good pipes.
But I tend to be very wary of them, based largely on my experience
with Made in France pipes found at estate sales but not exactly
contradicted by other factors.
Cheers!
jim b.
--
UNIX is not user-unfriendly; it merely
expects users to be computer-friendly.
grace christian
cheers
"Sykes Wilford" <swil...@smokingpipes.com> wrote in message
news:a4ovfl$1pcrp$1...@ID-107076.news.dfncis.de...
firedancer
been satisfired with every one of them. I feel just a bit guilty about it,
because I tend to have a slight problem with things French, but Hell, when
it's good, it's good, right? June
--
Live fast, love hard, pipe away, and sing!
"James Reazor" <JRe...@home.com> wrote in message
news:9dbc8.70670$8d1.22...@news1.rdc1.md.home.com...
Judson Mitchell
Dunhill bowls are turned in France, thus making them French pipes,
n'est-ce-pas? So, let's all join in a chorus of La Marseillaise....
Robert DOnnelly
heard of 'Jean La Croix' pipes? Just curious to know whatever
information you may have, whether they were second's, or just came
and went?
All the Best,
Robert
Peter West
the best. 'Nuff said.
Robbie
looking and comfortable pipe but burns a little hot so I save it for tobacco
that bites a bit as the pipe forces me to smoke slowly. There is a tiny
crack on the outside of the pipe but as I bought it new for around $15 I'm
not complaining.
My other BC is an older bent volcano with the name "Capitan 70". It is a
very nice, solid piece of briar and is a very good smoke. It has a small
sand pit on the the shank that has no influence on the smoking experience.
Again, this was an Ebay purchase in the <$20 category. It looked like it had
been smoked maybe once or twice.
French pipes.... c'est bonne!
Robaire
Gregory Pease
(in message <f06b17f1.02022...@posting.google.com>):
> Since were on this thread, I thought I would ask if anyone has ever heard of
> 'Jean La Croix' pipes? Just curious to know whatever information you may
> have, whether they were second's, or just came and went?
Excellent pipes! Germane to this, and to the original post in this
thread:
On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 9:01:35 -0800, Mike Rothenberg wrote
(in message <9afb6c72.02021...@posting.google.com>):
I have a small collection of pipes made by Jean LaCroix for Drucquer's in
the 1978 time frame. The first really excellent pipe I ever owned, in
fact, was one of these, an ODA sized Apple. (If a Dunhill stem were put
on the pipe, it could easiily pass as it's English cousin in every
respect. Whether this gives any credibility to the notion that some of
Dunhill's bowls were turned in France, even then, is subject to
questioning, and is not at all the purpose of this post. Now that I think
about it, though, every one of these Drucquer/LaCroix pipes has a Dunhill
analogue. But, I digress...) These pipes smoke as well as the best pipes
in my collection, and y'all know what a nut I am about Danish
high-grades, and have been known to own a Dunhill or two, along with
several other of the marques considered to be equisite, or at least
classic.
I've had Butz Chauquins, Chacoms, and still have quite a few French made
GBDs. I've had amazing smokes from these pipes. I realize the French also
produce some of the most hideous pipes the world has known, at least
aesthtically, but it seems really unfair to tar the French pipe making
industry with a broad brush. I've seen some pretty darn ugly pipes from
Danish, Italian, German, Japanese, English and American makers, too.
It seems that we, as modern collectors and smokers, forget to pay enough
attention to the fact that the briar pipe industry started in France, and
that some of the English marques that were once so well respected trace
their originis to France.
It seems the French pipe industry is not as well respected as it should
be. Certainly, there are some excellent pipes being made in St. Claude
today. While I am not fond of the aesthetics of some of the more
experimental offerings of Butz, Chacom or Genod, I can not fault the
smoking qualities of those I've tried. Au contraire! I've had some
excellent smokes from French made pipes.
Maybe if we paid them more attention, those makers would, in turn, pay
more attention to us, and produce more pipes that would gain greater
acceptance in the world market. Or not.
They do make some pretty silly cars.
-glp
Dennis Womack
"Serge André" <serge...@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:3c7111ff$0$33517$ba62...@news.skynet.be...
> Sykes,
>
> I'm not 100% pure French made... and I'm living in Brussels (Belgium).
> However I've been a pipesmoker for more than thirty-five years and I have
a
> relatively good knowledge of most of the French brands pipes that are on
the
> market.
>
Can you identify anything about these three French makes:
1) Kremer's I have a wonderful small briar calabash shape
2) L'Aiglon I know this means the Eaglet, and it has an Eagle with spread
wings on the stem.
3) large pipe with a "P" in a circle, and a permanent type metal fitment
that looks a lot like the sharp fitments Longchamp used.
... dennis