Of Ebay and Bongs
ktmd
as tobacco pipes, and I asked the question "Is a bong not a bong because it
is said not to be a bong?". Well, I now know the answer. It is "YES". A
bong is, in fact, not a bong if it is said not to be a bong. I know this
because I reported all the bongs I could find in the pipes section to ebay,
as they clearly contravene their policy excluding drugs and drug
paraphernelia from being advertised on ebay. After reviewing my complaints,
ebay sent me a series of identical (obviously form) emails stating that the
items were clearly listed as tobacco pipes, so they could not possibly be
drug paraphernelia. Never mind that they were 2 1/2" long, made of clay,
had skulls on them, and a chamber capacity smaller than the tip of your
little finger. Never mind that they did not even look remotely like a
tobacco pipe. Unbelieveable.
Bottom line: if anybody has drug paraphernelia left over from their youth,
feel free to sell it on ebay. It doesn't matter what it is, as long as you
don't have the word "drugs" in your ad. Take heart, you may be able to buy
that new Dunhill of your dreams with the proceeds :0)
Kurt
Colonel Panic
said to Mr. Spock:
>Bottom line: if anybody has drug paraphernelia left over from their youth,
>feel free to sell it on ebay. It doesn't matter what it is, as long as you
>don't have the word "drugs" in your ad. Take heart, you may be able to buy
>that new Dunhill of your dreams with the proceeds :0)
Damn. I gave all that stuff to my cousin 18 years ago when I no
longer had a use for it.
L@@K D00DZ! Vintage water-cooled "tobacco" pipe! RARE ANTIQUE!!!!!!!
I could be totally like, rich and stuff man.
Reg'ds,
Terry
--
Lend me adoration
Before I leave your eyes
World in the mirror
Waters of amnesia drown
Jeff Folloder
> Bottom line: if anybody has drug paraphernelia left over from their youth,
> feel free to sell it on ebay. It doesn't matter what it is, as long as you
> don't have the word "drugs" in your ad. Take heart, you may be able to buy
> that new Dunhill of your dreams with the proceeds :0)
Being married to a member of the law enforcement community, I would caution our
gentle readers not to heed the above mentioned advice. If the toys of your
youth are unused, then list away. However, if they have been used, then there
will be residue which is a technical violation of the possession of controlled
substances statutes...
--
Jeff Folloder
If knowledge is power, and power corrupts,
and corruption is crime, and crime doesn't
pay... Does knowledge, in the end, leave
you broke?
ktmd
the heebie jeebies :0)
Kurt
"Jeff Folloder" <je...@folloder.com> wrote in message
news:39385556...@folloder.com...
Got Rolls?
wrote:
>
>Being married to a member of the law enforcement community, I would caution our
>gentle readers not to heed the above mentioned advice. If the toys of your
>youth are unused, then list away. However, if they have been used, then there
>will be residue which is a technical violation of the possession of controlled
>substances statutes...
Of course, ~95% of the $20 bills in circulation today have detectable
ammounts of cocaine on them, so your wallet is most likely in
violation of the controlled substances statues.
Also, there are quite a lot of legal substances OTHER than tobacco
which can be smoked in, um, non-traditonal pipes.
Jeff Folloder
> On Fri, 02 Jun 2000 19:46:14 -0500, Jeff Folloder <je...@folloder.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Being married to a member of the law enforcement community, I would caution our
> >gentle readers not to heed the above mentioned advice. If the toys of your
> >youth are unused, then list away. However, if they have been used, then there
> >will be residue which is a technical violation of the possession of controlled
> >substances statutes...
>
> Of course, ~95% of the $20 bills in circulation today have detectable
> ammounts of cocaine on them, so your wallet is most likely in
> violation of the controlled substances statues.
Not necessarily true. There have been many court rulings on what constitutes drug
paraphenalia. Currency would be hard-pressed to meet those judicially mandated
guidelines. As far as your assertion about ~95% of the twenties in circulation,
BWAHAHAHAAHAHA! I would suggest that you do a little research as opposed to spewing
an urban legend that you heard from one of your dudes.
> Also, there are quite a lot of legal substances OTHER than tobacco
> which can be smoked in, um, non-traditonal pipes.
Read very carefully here folks. He said "can." Didn't say "are." I would propose
that, more often than not, legal substances are not consumed in those, um,
non-traditional pipes.
--
Jeff Folloder
"God is a comedian playing to an
audience too afraid to laugh."
- Voltaire
ktmd
which really is sad. I saw a Dateline NBC show a few months back where they
took 10 twenty dollar bills from different areas of the country and tested
them for cocaine. Nine
of them were positive. They then performed scanning electron microscopy on
the bills, and the same nine bills showed cocaine crystals intermingled with
the fibers of the paper. Not a huge sample size, but quite disturbing
nonethe less.
As for other substances being smoked in bongs, I don't buy it. Intended for
drugs, used for drugs. Ebay doesn't care though. Since my first post I
emailed them about a couple of other obvious bongs in the tobaccianna
section (the seller even put in his description "only for use with tobacco -
yeah right!"), and I was sent ebay's policy on drug paraphernelia. These
bongs met ALL the criteria for being banned on ebay, yet the ebay employees
that emailed me back went out of their way to find excuses as to why they
would not be removing the items from auction.
Kurt
"Jeff Folloder" <jeff@folloder#despam#.com> wrote in message
news:395C8E12...@folloder.com...
Jeff Folloder
> Actually Jeff, he's pretty close to the mark on the 20 dollar bill thing,
> which really is sad. I saw a Dateline NBC show a few months back where they
> took 10 twenty dollar bills from different areas of the country and tested
> them for cocaine. Nine
> of them were positive. They then performed scanning electron microscopy on
> the bills, and the same nine bills showed cocaine crystals intermingled with
> the fibers of the paper. Not a huge sample size, but quite disturbing
> nonethe less.
I'm still incredulous. The sheer number of bills in circulation makes it
somehat unbelievable that 90%+ were used for snorting cocaine.
Let x be the number of 20's in circulation.
Let y be the average cost of a hit of coke.
Assume that a bill is only used for one hit.
Assume that 90% of all bills are used for coke.
Then (x times .9) times y = the one time cost of coke use.
Someone want to supply the values for x and y so that we can solve this little
piece of algebra?
--
Jeff Folloder
God doesn't play dice. -- Albert Einstein
johnwpe...@my-deja.com
First, we do not know what 10 cities. This skews a random sample right
there.
Second, the sample size is too small.
Third, the sample is not controlled.
NOW: There *IS* a way to conduct this experiment scientifically.
Either the Treasury Department or the Federal Reserve Banks have the
responsibility to destroy banknotes. Take a day's planned destruction
of $20 bills. If the population is over, say 1000, take a 10% random
sample. If the population is over 100,000, take a 1% random sample.
Then do the scanning.
One problem with our society these days is we are conditioned to take
the results of polling data straight up. The question can skew the
results, the target population can skew the results, sample selection
can skew results, and too many people like to do cardinal
interpretation on ordinal or binary result data.
Lord knows I'm not a mathemetician ... I'm just a dumb artilleryman.
Smoke in peace (using briar, clay, meer and cob), John
In article <395CB069...@folloder.com>,
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Terry Hagley
>I'm still incredulous. The sheer number of bills in
circulation makes it
>somehat unbelievable that 90%+ were used for snorting cocaine.
The residue comes from being _handled_ by someone in a
transaction for coke, not from being used for snorting it, and
then being in a billfold/envelope/briefcase next to contaminated
bills, etc., etc.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
Up to 100 minutes free!
http://www.keen.com
Bill Triplett
cocaine on bills... I was thinking they came up with far higher
numbers, but that was in FL...
Iowa passed legislation that essentially means that a single molecule
is legally grounds for a charge of possession with intent to
distribute... By the strict letter of the law, a high percentage of
bills in circulation are sufficient to legally label an Iowan as a
drug dealer...
On Fri, 30 Jun 2000 07:09:54 -0500, Jeff Folloder
<jeff@folloder#despam#.com> wrote:
>Got Rolls? wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 02 Jun 2000 19:46:14 -0500, Jeff Folloder <je...@folloder.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Being married to a member of the law enforcement community, I would caution our
>> >gentle readers not to heed the above mentioned advice. If the toys of your
>> >youth are unused, then list away. However, if they have been used, then there
>> >will be residue which is a technical violation of the possession of controlled
>> >substances statutes...
>>
>> Of course, ~95% of the $20 bills in circulation today have detectable
>> ammounts of cocaine on them, so your wallet is most likely in
>> violation of the controlled substances statues.
>
>Not necessarily true. There have been many court rulings on what constitutes drug
>paraphenalia. Currency would be hard-pressed to meet those judicially mandated
>guidelines. As far as your assertion about ~95% of the twenties in circulation,
>BWAHAHAHAAHAHA! I would suggest that you do a little research as opposed to spewing
>an urban legend that you heard from one of your dudes.
>
>> Also, there are quite a lot of legal substances OTHER than tobacco
>> which can be smoked in, um, non-traditonal pipes.
>
>Read very carefully here folks. He said "can." Didn't say "are." I would propose
>that, more often than not, legal substances are not consumed in those, um,
>non-traditional pipes.
------------------
Bill Triplett
------------------
HoyoD
Orwellian???
chris
"Bill Triplett" <bil...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:92dpls05p5ml4m8df...@4ax.com...
Ggrrbb
>somehat unbelievable that 90%+ were used for snorting cocaine.
>
Actually very few would have to used to snort cocaine. The cocaine would be
transfered from bill to bill in wallets, registers, counting machines at banks
etc. as they circulated about the country.
The sheer volume of cash transactions is what would do it, not actually using
each bill to snort with.
I read somwhere that if you take the volume of air in our atmosphere, the
average lung capacity and number of breaths per minute a person makes, and
calculate it out, during a lifetime its quite probable that each of us has
inhaled molecules Caesar exhaled.
Ow, that hurt my brain.
George
"Hawaii is a unique state. It is a small state. It is a state that is
by itself. It is a -- it is different from the other 49 states. Well,
all states are different, but it's got a particularly unique
situation." Dan Quayle
Sigmunds Fine Cigars
opined 6/30/00 9:11 AM:
> took 10 twenty dollar bills from different areas of the country and tested
> them for cocaine. Nine
> of them were positive. They then performed scanning electron microscopy on
> the bills, and the same nine bills showed cocaine crystals intermingled with
> the fibers of the paper.
Perhaps the problem is at the mint. How else can you explain the founding
father's looks on the new bills. Somebody is getting high.
John
--
John & Sheila Davis
Sigmunds Fine Cigars
Grove, OK
smo...@neok.com
If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor.
-Albert Einstein
John Huber
They are not illegal until an illegal drug is used in them and a
residue is left. You can go to more than a dozen stores in this town and
buy all you want.
And what the hell does cocaine residue on $20 bills have to do with
bongs. Bongs are rarely used to consume cocaine. Bongs are traditionally
used to consume an organic herb that grows in all parts of the world and
has been used since the beginning of time by people from almost all
cultures with very negligible ill effect. Until the early part of the
twentieth century when certain parties (can you say plastics?) decided
it would be in the best interests of themselves if this plant was
declared demonic and wiped from the face of the earth with whatever
draconian means necessary. But I digress as I know this subject has been
covered before a couple of months ago. I won't attempt to argue this
point as most people have their minds made up on this subject.
My point is that some of you guys bitch about the politically
correct mindset on smoking tobacco, public smoking,, smoking in the
media, even the fact that you have to pretend to be buying unopened
tobacco tins on eBay for their collecting value and not for what is
inside, and yet here you are whining about something that truly is none
of your freaking business!
Live and let live. We can hang together or we can hang separately.
May you all have a happy Fourth of July and please reflect on the
meaning of that day.
Smoking Raven's Wing in an eBay bulldog.
Peace and freedom to puff (what ever you so desire)
Toren Smith
wrote:
>that is truly scary.........a single molecule? could our society be any MORE
>Orwellian???
>
>chris
Note that the same idiotic "zero-tolerance" idea written back in the
'70s (applied to alleged carcinogens) is the cause of much of the EPAs
and FDAs more ludicrous regulations.
--Toren
Trong
Jeff Folloder <jeff@folloder#despam#.com> wrote:
> ktmd wrote:
>
> > Actually Jeff, he's pretty close to the mark on the 20 dollar bill
thing,
> > which really is sad. I saw a Dateline NBC show a few months back
where they
tested
> > them for cocaine. Nine
> > of them were positive. They then performed scanning electron
microscopy on
> > the bills, and the same nine bills showed cocaine crystals
intermingled with
disturbing
> > nonethe less.
>
it
> somehat unbelievable that 90%+ were used for snorting cocaine.
>
> Let y be the average cost of a hit of coke.
> Assume that a bill is only used for one hit.
> Assume that 90% of all bills are used for coke.
> Then (x times .9) times y = the one time cost of coke use.
>
> Someone want to supply the values for x and y so that we can solve
this little
> piece of algebra?
>
> --
> Jeff Folloder
>
um... your not taking in to account guilt by association, if a bill that
touched coke, touched another bill, the contamination could spread. This
has been an acknowledged and much feared way for terroists to spread
disease as well, contaminate the money supply. As someone who on
occasion frequents Strip clubs, all i can say is "Man you have know idea
where that dollar may have been."
--
Trong Trongersoll, Hermit from the Hills,
Ogre Extrodinaire, Bount. Bod. Guild, Supporter #3
Ren.Geek NJ:NYRF
AIM: Trongersol www.geocities.com/trongersoll
ktmd
The cities were named on the show, but I can't remember which
ones they were. They were chosen to represent a wide
geographical area, so they're from all over the country, and
three sample bills were chosen per city (I just remembered
that). They did use a newly minted bill as a negative control,
and the test kit has it's own positive control built in. Sample
size is small, but not too bad. Anyways, it was not designed to
be scientifically rigorous in terms of experimental design. The
segment was actually on "dirty money", and focused on all of the
contaminants found on bills, including pathogenic
microorganisms. Obviously it was put together for entertainment,
and not scientific use, but it is quite shocking nonethless.
Before seeing that, I would have had the same response as Jeff
did. Off the top of my head I would have guessed maybe 10% of 20
dollar bills have cocaine on them. It may not truely be 90%, but
it's very likely that a surprisingly high percentage of bills do
contain traces of cocaine. This would be an interesting study
to do properly, as you suggest, as I think it would be of legal
importance. Imagine being pulled over for a speeding ticket as
you rush to your local tobaconist, big wad of 20's in hand,
looking to buy that new Bo Nordh snail that just came in. The
officer, who notices the wad of bills and the Kirsten in your
mouth(hey tobacco pipe, bong, what's the diff. right?), pulls
out his little cocaine test kit, dips a bill in, and the
solution turns blue. Minutes later you are cuffed, Mirandized,
and thrown in the back of a paddy wagon with some, shall we say,
unrefined gentelmen. Probable? No. Possible? Yes. Sure would
make things easier if your lawyer knew the real stats about
cocaine and 20 dollar bills, LOL!
Oh, and as you sit in jail explaining things to your wife, I
beat you to the shop and grab the Bo Nordh for $200, as the
teenaged employee didn't think anybody would want to buy
that "funny lookin' thing" anyways :0)
Kurt
ktmd
The concern I had was that they were being sold in the
tobacciana/pipes section of ebay, thus giving the world the idea
that illicit drug users and pipe smokers are one and the same.
Tobacco pipe smokers have a big enough cross to bear in our
society as it is, and I don't think we need that to contend with
as well.
While bongs may not be illegal until used, selling them does
contravene ebay's listing policies. Just because you can go to
a dozen stores in town and buy one does not make the sale of
them desireable, and I would bet that not one tobacconist in
your town sells bongs to supplement his/her income. Our society
was not built on accepting the status quo, and turning a blind
eye.
Is the sale of bongs on ebay any of our business? Yes, most
definitely. I personally am not content to let society degrade
itself and ignore the fact that our kids are buying these bongs
and getting high, whether we know it or not. As I said in
another post, it is easy to sit back and demand your rights and
freedoms, but along with those comes responsibility and
accountability. In my opinion the sale of bongs in the
tobacciana/pipes section is irresponsible, and a hindrance to
our fine hobby, illegal or not.
Kurt
-----------------------------------------------------------
smokem
definatly think different about frequenting the place, not only
for the bong thing, but they are overpriced on everything, and
not very friendly.
Glenn
Sigmunds Fine Cigars
cli...@rochester.rr.com opined 6/30/00 11:26 AM:
> could our society be any MORE
> Orwellian???
I'm sure some of our representatives could pass a few more dumb @ss laws to
do just that.
Sigmunds Fine Cigars
opined 6/30/00 1:12 PM:
> This
> has been an acknowledged and much feared way for terroists to spread
> disease as well, contaminate the money supply.
Read a book about this exact thing years ago called "White Plague" by Frank
Herbert. It only killed women though, which in the end would kill all of us.
Creepy.
John
Bill Triplett
about the same as our opinion of smoking tobacco... Whatever you
think about it, they belive they are doing something that hurts nobody
and it should be their own choice....
We pipesters belive that we should have the option of smoking our
pipes for the same reason...
If you really belive that marijuana should be illeagal, then don't
complain when your neighbor starts complaining that she thinks smoking
tobacco should be illegeal...
I belive that marijuana should be legalized for a great number of
reasons, but the long and short of it is this - you are either for or
against the personal choice concerning activities that create risk for
yourself...
I personally am against the idea of government protecting us from
ourselves...
------------------
Bill Triplett
------------------
Jeff Folloder
> If you really belive that marijuana should be illeagal, then don't
> complain when your neighbor starts complaining that she thinks smoking
> tobacco should be illegeal...
Gotta take the contrarian viewpoint here, Bill. The fact is that one is
legal and one isn't, today. Things could/can change. I have the perfect
right to complain about an illegal activity: just because my neighbor
thinks that her meth should be legal doesn't mean I can't complain about
it.
> I belive that marijuana should be legalized for a great number of
> reasons, but the long and short of it is this - you are either for or
> against the personal choice concerning activities that create risk for
> yourself...
True enough. However, until it IS legalized, it IS illegal.
> I personally am against the idea of government protecting us from
> ourselves...
Me too, but that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish.
--
Jeff Folloder
Become a programmer and never see the world!!!
ktmd
To be honest, I wouldn't mind at all if marijuana were made
legal, as I don't smoke it, never have, and never will. The
point is that marijuana IS illegal everywhere in North America,
and I don't think that complaining about illegal activities is
a bad thing. The association between smokers of illegal
substances and smokers of legal substances is frequently made,
and I believe that is to the detriment of our cause as tobacco
smokers. Keep in mind that bongs can be used to smoke various
illegal substances, many of which are more harmful, toxic, and
psychotropic than marijuana. These not only create risk for the
person(s) using them, but for others around them, as such
substances can markedly affect an individual's behavior and
judgement, especially when motor vehicles or weapons are
involved. Tobacco, for the most part, does not.
The fact that alcohol and tobacco are legal, yet marijuana is
not, is an enigma to me. However, as a law abiding citizen I
would prefer not to be lumped in with those who show disregard
and disrespect for the laws of our land, which I think for the
most part, make our society a safer place to live in. It does
not matter what the marijuana smoker's opinion of the legality
of smoking the weed is. We *as a society* (and not the
government as an entity) chose long ago to make marijuana
illegal, and tobacco legal, and so I see the sale of drug
paraphernalia on eBay as being counter productive to tobacco
smokers until such time that we as citizens chose to legalize
marijuana and/or other drugs through existing legal channels.
Kurt
Bill Triplett <bil...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>The marijuana smoker's opinion of the legality of smoking the
weed is
>about the same as our opinion of smoking tobacco... Whatever
you
>think about it, they belive they are doing something that hurts
nobody
>and it should be their own choice....
>
>We pipesters belive that we should have the option of smoking
our
>pipes for the same reason...
>
>If you really belive that marijuana should be illeagal, then
don't
>complain when your neighbor starts complaining that she thinks
smoking
>tobacco should be illegeal...
>
>I belive that marijuana should be legalized for a great number
of
>reasons, but the long and short of it is this - you are either
for or
>against the personal choice concerning activities that create
risk for
>yourself...
>
>I personally am against the idea of government protecting us
from
>ourselves...
-----------------------------------------------------------
Bill Triplett
<jeff@folloder#despam#.com> wrote:
>Bill Triplett wrote:
>
>> If you really belive that marijuana should be illeagal, then don't
>> complain when your neighbor starts complaining that she thinks smoking
>> tobacco should be illegeal...
>
>Gotta take the contrarian viewpoint here, Bill. The fact is that one is
>legal and one isn't, today. Things could/can change. I have the perfect
>right to complain about an illegal activity: just because my neighbor
>thinks that her meth should be legal doesn't mean I can't complain about
>it.
Apples and oranges... Marijuana is a misdemeanor, meth is a felony...
And being illegal is a poor reason to complain in and of itself...
Complaining that they are exposing your children to illegal activities
I can understand... Complaining simply that they are doing something
illegal is kind of silly... Ever drove too fast? That created far
more risk to others than smoking pot in the privacy of your own home,
and both are illegal...
>
>> I belive that marijuana should be legalized for a great number of
>> reasons, but the long and short of it is this - you are either for or
>> against the personal choice concerning activities that create risk for
>> yourself...
>
>True enough. However, until it IS legalized, it IS illegal.
Because the government has made the decision that it is against it,
you are too? Basing your opinion on the current position of the
government...
Actually Jeff, I understand what you are saying, and agree to a
point.. I'm simply saying that one day tobacco may be illegal - and
when it is, will you turn in your pipes and tobacco? If so, great; if
not, then you have no moral position to condemn pot smoking...
>
>> I personally am against the idea of government protecting us from
>> ourselves...
>
>Me too, but that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish.
------------------
Bill Triplett
------------------
Bill Triplett
<ktmdNO...@chalktv.com.invalid> wrote:
snip
However, as a law abiding citizen I
>would prefer not to be lumped in with those who show disregard
>and disrespect for the laws of our land, which I think for the
>most part, make our society a safer place to live in. It does
>not matter what the marijuana smoker's opinion of the legality
>of smoking the weed is.
Kurt, as I said in another post, if tobacco were made illegal today,
would your throw out yours or smoke it? If you believe you would
throw it out, then your position is entirely acceptable... If not,
your position is hypocritical...
Not too long ago, there was a thread on whether or not we would quit
smoking our pipes if it became illegal... A number of posters stated
they would continue to smoke their pipes... I am one of those that
would "probably" continue... Therefore, it would be hypocritical of
me to condemn someone who continues to smoke pot despite it's being
illegal... Some pointed out they would simply regard it as civil
disobedience...
My support of pot in this thread is not about pot, it is simply about
whether or not I can support a law that is there to protect ourselves
from ourselves...
Our country was founded by illegal means - we rebelled against the
legal authorities... This revolution is regarded in a positive light,
and celebrated on the coming Independence Day...
>Kurt
>
>
>Bill Triplett <bil...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>The marijuana smoker's opinion of the legality of smoking the
>weed is
>>about the same as our opinion of smoking tobacco... Whatever
>you
>>think about it, they belive they are doing something that hurts
>nobody
>>and it should be their own choice....
>>
>>We pipesters belive that we should have the option of smoking
>our
>>pipes for the same reason...
>>
>>If you really belive that marijuana should be illeagal, then
>don't
>>complain when your neighbor starts complaining that she thinks
>smoking
>>tobacco should be illegeal...
>>
>>I belive that marijuana should be legalized for a great number
>of
>>reasons, but the long and short of it is this - you are either
>for or
>>against the personal choice concerning activities that create
>risk for
>>yourself...
>>
>>I personally am against the idea of government protecting us
>from
>>ourselves...
>
>
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>
>Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
>Up to 100 minutes free!
>http://www.keen.com
------------------
Bill Triplett
------------------
ktmd
> Kurt, as I said in another post, if tobacco were made illegal today,
> would your throw out yours or smoke it? If you believe you would
> throw it out, then your position is entirely acceptable... If not,
> your position is hypocritical...
I disagree entirely, however if posession and distribution of tobacco really
did become illegal, I have no doubt that I would rather get rid of my stash
than go to jail. What choice would I have? Would you risk going to jail
and being torn away from your career, your family, and your loved ones
simply so you could smoke your pipe for a little while prior to being
incarcerated? I love my pipes and tobacco as much as anyone, but when it
comes right down to it, I love my family, my freedom, and my country more
than some leaf in a bag (albeit very, very good leaf <G>). I would not sell
my soul or breech my principles for any material item. I'm not that
materialistic.
Living in a free society requires that we adhere to the laws of the land,
which were put in place not by individual dictators, but by democratic
means. It is our *responsibility* to abide by those laws, whether we agree
with them or not. If the laws seem improper or outdated, there is a legal
process in place to change them, or strike them down. The reason why
tobacco will never be outlawed is due to the enormous tax revenue it
creates, however, if that was not the case we as tobacco smokers could
ensure it's continued availability by getting together and lobbying our
governments. Our forefathers fought hard to ensure this would be the case.
The ability to effect change is the ultimate freedom.
Kurt
ktmd
I don't think so, as I'm not a big believer in civil disobedience as a means
of effecting legal change. I just don't think it works. After 30+ years of
"toke ins", it doesn't seem like marijuana is any closer to becoming
legalized. As you know, we have plenty of civil disobedience up our way in
the form of logging protests, various conference protests, etc. and apart
from drawing attention to a cause, I can't say that it has ever changed
much, let alone a law. Nothing wrong with protesting, but I think the
better way to go would be to take that energy and use it to organize formal
legal challenges and a powerful political lobby. To look at an example,
when the City of Vancouver came down with their draconian anti smoking
by-laws, many restaurant and bar owners vowed they would never abide by it.
They got their 15 minutes of fame on the local news, and paid their fines,
but the anti smoking by-laws were still in place. A group of organized
citizens, bar owners, and lawyers looked into the situation, and found that
the businesses were not given sufficient notice by the city to comply, and
thus the by-law was imposed unfairly. This finding resulted in the by-lay
being struck down, which is where we are at now. Of course, another by-law
is in the works, but no amount of civil disobedience would have caused the
original by-law to be struck down.
The same thing could be said of the provincial photo radar program. Many
people chose to demonstrate their disapproval of the program by refusing to
pay their tickets. That was fine, but they ended up with even larger
penalties that they had to pay, or they would not be allowed to renew their
car insurance. A clever coalition, headed by a lawyer, researched the issue
throughly, and found that the serial number of the photo radar equipment
that was listed on all the photo radar tickets given out by the Vancouver
Police Dept. was wrong. This led to every photo radar ticket given out for
the previous18 months to be forgiven.
As I said, nothing wrong with civil disobedience/protests, but there are
more effective ways to achieve change than that IMO, especially when it
comes to changing laws. Of course, there is plenty of room for all forms of
expression by all sorts of folks in our society, which is what makes it a
great place to live in.
Kurt
"John Hamilton McGrath" <ja...@intouch.bc.ca> wrote in message
news:wpw75.1528$tz6.87...@news1.van.metronet.ca...
> Kurt,
>
> When you lose a freedom due to politically correct hysteria...
> ...wouldn't civil disobedience, logically, at the very least - be
required?
>
> John
Bill Triplett
the rules in regards to marijuana... remember the movie Reefer
Madness? I was required to watch it in school... There wasn't a
single shred of truth to the whole thing... Possession of marijuana
is the only misdemeanor I know of that allows the government to seize
your family's home... Ridiculous... You can't fight that kind of
madness by using logic...
Not a pipe related topic is it.. Unless of course, they at some point
in the future decide to make illegal that other drug, nicotine...
Look at the studies being pushed off as proven scientific fact... It
is entirely conceivable that we will one day be in the same position
as the pot smokers are now... And maybe not that far off... As for
them being scared of losing tax revenue, can you imagine the amount of
tax revenue they are losing by not taxing marijuana?
------------------
Bill Triplett
------------------
ktmd
I don't think that if marijuana were legalized and taxed it woud bring in
even a small fraction of what tobacco brings in now. Much smaller market.
You can't smoke 3 packs per day of reefers <G>. I'm pretty sure neither
Canada or the US could afford to outlaw tobacco completely, as it would mean
billions and billions of dollars in lost revenues. If they really wanted
to, they would have done it by now. There isn't much to stop them, as the
"pro smoking" movement is all but nonexistent politically. Sure 25% of
voters smoke, but how many of those actively lobby government to support the
rights of smokers?
Anyways, we are off topic, as you say, but I've enjoyed this discussion.
Back to pipe smoking, the gentle art of which we can certainly all agree
upon!
Regards,
Kurt
"Bill Triplett" <bil...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:rh8tlss05gp8t1lfc...@4ax.com...
John Hamilton McGrath
When you lose a freedom due to politically correct hysteria...
...wouldn't civil disobedience, logically, at the very least - be required?
John
----------
In article <8jlu7k$h05$1...@nntp.itservices.ubc.ca>, "ktmd" <kt...@my-deja.com>
wrote:
>
> "Bill Triplett" <bil...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:pepsls8ironrrh2ll...@4ax.com...
>> Kurt, as I said in another post, if tobacco were made illegal today,
>> would your throw out yours or smoke it?
<snip>...
Anthony J. Bryant
>
> I'm still incredulous. The sheer number of bills in circulation makes it
> somehat unbelievable that 90%+ were used for snorting cocaine.
>
They don't have to be. They're contaminated by contact with money that WAS. If I
have five bills in my wallet and put in one that was used in that fashion, just
the proximity of the bills and the rubbing in the wallet will mean that cocaine
residue will spread to the other bills.
Tony
Bill Triplett
such a diverse group... On any given subject there are people that
represent both sides of the debate...
I enjoyed reading your post... Smoking a Les Wood Poker, silver
spigot.. great pipe - filled w/ the "legal stuff"... I quit smoking
the other stuff 10 years ago...
>
>
------------------
Bill Triplett
------------------
ktmd
Kurt
"Bill Triplett" <bil...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:ttntlsgdikq51rt7l...@4ax.com...
John Hamilton McGrath
- I'd really appreciate you comments on the pipe.
John
----------
In article <8jnsj5$o10$1...@nntp.itservices.ubc.ca>, "ktmd" <kt...@my-deja.com>
wrote:
ktmd
My comment: AWESOME! Classic and well proportioned.
It is indeed a very nice pipe that I'm sure you will enjoy for years to
come. Congrats! The only problem now is that it's fate will be in the
hands of Canada Post :0)
Kurt
"John Hamilton McGrath" <ja...@intouch.bc.ca> wrote in message
news:h0P75.1532$tz6.88...@news1.van.metronet.ca...
Bill Triplett
smoke like a dream and high quality vulcanite stems... My silver
spigot poker is my best smoking pipe... It's a blast, I also have a
silver banded reo poker and a silver spigot blast billiard... Great
smokers all...
And when folks look over my collection, its usually one of a couple
they think looks the best... My wife wants me to buy more! Got to
keep the wife happy... (she also thinks latakia smells good, as do my
kids) My kids think one of the greatest joys of the week is when I
let them clean out the pipes I've smoked the prior week! Ain't life
grand?
On Sun, 02 Jul 2000 22:05:01 GMT, "John Hamilton McGrath"
<ja...@intouch.bc.ca> wrote:
>Hey guys, I just ordered one from Clive. It's the straight Reo spigot poker
>- I'd really appreciate you comments on the pipe.
>
>John
>
>----------
>In article <8jnsj5$o10$1...@nntp.itservices.ubc.ca>, "ktmd" <kt...@my-deja.com>
>wrote:
>
>
>> That's one fine pipe Bill. Enjoy!
>>
>> Kurt
>>
>> "Bill Triplett" <bil...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
>> news:ttntlsgdikq51rt7l...@4ax.com...
>>
>>> I enjoyed reading your post... Smoking a Les Wood Poker, silver
>>> spigot.. great pipe - filled w/ the "legal stuff"... I quit smoking
>>> the other stuff 10 years ago...
>>
>>
>>
------------------
Bill Triplett
------------------
LDaneman
becomes repetitive and oppressive, . . . then civil disobedience and shrugging
the shackles of enslaving govts/laws is required of free men.
John Hamilton McGrath
You are truly an evil, malicious and vicious man. Remind me of Canada post
huh? You really do know how to dash the hopes, dreams and desires of a Les
Wood owner wannabe;)
John
----------
In article <8johhr$78q$1...@nntp.itservices.ubc.ca>, "ktmd" <kt...@my-deja.com>
wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> My comment: AWESOME! Classic and well proportioned.
>
> It is indeed a very nice pipe that I'm sure you will enjoy for years to
> come. Congrats! The only problem now is that it's fate will be in the
> hands of Canada Post :0)
>
> Kurt
>
> "John Hamilton McGrath" <ja...@intouch.bc.ca> wrote in message
> news:h0P75.1532$tz6.88...@news1.van.metronet.ca...
MWR
disobeyers represent. In Holland they were numerous enough to make the
sale of 'personal' quantities of marijuana a tolerated and legal
transaction. Now the Dutch parliament has voted to extend that legality
to 'wholesale' transaction to remove the anomaly of its different legal
treatment.
It seems a curious world where something perfectly legal in some parts
draws draconian punishment in others. Reeks of fundamentalism best
avoided in civilized society.
MWR
"ktmd" <kt...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8jm62f$lmu$2...@nntp.itservices.ubc.ca...
> Hi John,
>
> I don't think so, as I'm not a big believer in civil disobedience as a
means
> of effecting legal change. I just don't think it works. After 30+
years of
> "toke ins", it doesn't seem like marijuana is any closer to becoming
> legalized. As you know, we have plenty of civil disobedience up our
way in
> the form of logging protests, various conference protests, etc. and
apart
> from drawing attention to a cause, I can't say that it has ever
changed
> much, let alone a law
snips
johnwperkowski
Just saw this after taking an offline break for five days of the
holiday.
Your 10% estimate is probably much closer to the truth.
But don't worry about the Bo Nordh, you can have it. I single
focus my collection on straight grain Charatans.
:) , John