Demise of Dunhill baccies
wls...@aol.com
There follows a sad story:
Going into one of my regular tobacconists in London this week, I was
told that the tinned tobaccos made under the Dunhill name have been
discontinued. ALL of them! FOREVER!
I was convinced the old guy had smoked one too many bowl and had got
his wires crossed - but cleaned him out of his last five tins of 965
just in case, before asking at a couple of other shops. They however
gave me the same answer: no more Dunhill.
Now I know that Alfred Dunhill has not actually produced the tinned
stuff for years; it's been made by BAT. So still in denial, I phoned
the BAT customer services people in London to confirm that it was all
a wicked rumour.
The tragic news is that it's not.
BAT have confirmed to me that they stopped supplying tinned Dunhill
baccy about three months ago, and there won't be any more. Ever.
Period. No more 965; no more EMP; no more Royal Yak (ok, so no loss
there, some of you might say!); no more Navy Rolls; or Dunhill Flake.
All gone. Forever.
Maybe it's got something to do with the smoking ban in the UK, which
came into force over the summer and has now relegated pipe smokers to
the status of bums, because we have to hang out on park benches for a
smoke in the middle of winter instead of sitting in a nice warm pub or
cafe (Thank you, Mr Blair, for that one. But I suppose it's easier to
legislate against me than to deal with real problems like failing
public health services, or why our troops are being shot up in a
country which posed no real threat to us - fat and oily as it's
dictator may have been.)
IMHO I do feel it's a shame that a company the size of BAT can't set
an example, when other much smaller firms like Rattrays, Sam Gawith et
al. can still come up with some cracking baccies for us.
Let's hope some of the smaller producers take up the gauntlet, and
begin to produce clones of some of the lost Dunhill blends. Who
knows.....as dedicated producers of pipe tobaccos, they might even do
a better job of it.
Well, that's my rant over. I'd be interested to hear what other ASPers
have to think on the matter. Have your supplies of Dunhill dried up
across the Pond too? Is this a story which has already been posted
elsewhere, but I've missed?
Gareth W
Lars Wiberg
> have to think on the matter. Have your supplies of Dunhill dried up
> across the Pond too? Is this a story which has already been posted
> elsewhere, but I've missed?
Orlik Tobacco Company of Denmark currently produces a number of the
Dunhill blends. EMP and 965 are still very much available and being
produced - at least in Denmark. I will inquire about other Dunhill
blends upon request.
With kind regards,
Lars Wiberg
MikeZ
I tried them all and will not miss any of them but I have to wonder
why you felt the need to bring politics into your Dunhill Pipe Tobacco
announcement. There are those who bitch and there are those who do.
Blair was a doer! He saw the wisdon in fighting them over there rather
than on British soil!
SquidHead
shit.
"MikeZ" <Mike.G...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:c66a8782-919f-476f...@m34g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
edsmithson
> Your cracked!! And I am a hawk !! Bush and Blair both are lying sacks of
First off, I think a moratorium on politics in this thread is in
order, IMO.
Second, I have only had a couple Dunhill blends and was highly
underwhelmed. Outright unimpressed actually.
Haven't tried their better known blends but think I might head over to
the store and pick up a couple tins.
Ken Dixon
> First off, I think a moratorium on politics in this thread is in
> order, IMO.
>
> Second, I have only had a couple Dunhill blends and was highly
> underwhelmed. Outright unimpressed actually.
>
> Haven't tried their better known blends but think I might head over to
> the store and pick up a couple tins.
Couldn't agree more. With the daily and unending election coverage the
last thing ASP needs is more politics in here, especially when it's
needlessly included in a on topic post.
As for the Dunhill blends I used to be a big fan of 965, EMP, Nightcap,
Light Flake and even the dreaded Royal Yacht but with the change of
blenders have been left unimpressed and won't miss them when they are gone.
Ken in Miami
MacB VF in a basket billiard, diet Mt. Dew on the side.
Matteo in Italy
effect. Hundreds of years of tradition down the shitter. A real shame.
Anyway, what I smoked in that London pub wasn't any crappy "Dunhill"
tobacco. It was REAL ENGLISH BLENDED TOBACCO (Gawith)
Alfred Dunhill died in 1959. It's about time they let him rest instead
of further perverting his name for profit with shitty tobacco. Might
as well stick a Rolls Royce badge on a Kia. (Same with Enzo Ferrari,
putting HIS damn name on anything that sells... but that's another
story.)
And by the way, politics has nothing to do with BAT's decision - Profits
do. If the Dunhill name would have remained DEDICATED TO THE ORIGINAL
BUSINESS OF PIPES, ACCOUTERMENTS, AND TOBACCO EXCLUSIVELY, they might
have actually survived (as Gawith has) instead of selling out ideals for
profit and losing their core values. Dunhill was gone long ago. Don't
mourn what's already gone.
And that's my small rant.
Ciao from Napoli,
Matteo
Col. CraggyBlast
I'm confused. Who is BAT? I thought Murray's used to make the Dunhill
blends and Orlik had taken them over. Could someone explain? Is BAT
the parent company of Murray's?
corneel....@gmail.com
On Jan 18, 7:25 pm, Lars Wiberg <slar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Orlik Tobacco Company of Denmark currently produces a number of the
> Dunhill blends. EMP and 965 are still very much available and being
> produced - at least in Denmark. I will inquire about other Dunhill
> blends upon request.
I've seen you post messages like this all over the place, in different
forums, boards and what have you. I have done the same, as you well
know.
I do wonder why you still even bother? It seems no one is interested
in facts and determined to kill the entire pipe scene and hobby by
unleashing wild rumors. Point to articles, studies and hard fact and
the only thing you'll get is that you're being ignored.
No cheers to that, but cheers to you for still trying,
--
Corneel Vermeulen
http://pipelore.net/
ML
Gareth and all who follow...I have to weigh in on this one...have been
silent when so many have dumbed out the current Dunhills, but they are
fine mellow, no bite smokes without the McClellands vinegar and
bitescorches, the unable to be continually lit McBarons. And Royal
Yacht?? goodnight, I am weary of the rant on this blend...its
difficult to tell it apart from Three Friars and thats always highly
rated.
In any case we saw the current demise this past summer of some fine
blends even if they were not originals...still beat the "regular"
Danish-es tho. BUT gone...and now these?? This is the truth-- I have
found more pleasure in these underated Dunhills, past and present over
the years than most of anything that came out of USA...or Euro...and
if they go, there are simply two things: it is as it is...and second,
everyone has issues. Looks like I hit SG and GH's and Rattrays and
live on happily. [BTW- on regular basis I try many here of the popular
blenders stateside, and its been a rough go for some reason...
Politics? Garth just made a leap over when he thot of the smoking ban
and got a bit carried away; this too shall pass but I line up on the
forum simply not getting off onto tangents, politics, personal debates
and I for one appreciate the decorum of word choices...we need NOT be
seen as another group of people who cannot express ourselves unless
its in the baser four letter words. Thanks all...well, now to
something abit more calm for my personal deamor...
ML. [z3keeper]
Lars Wiberg
> I've seen you post messages like this all over the place, in different
> forums, boards and what have you. I have done the same, as you well
> know.
Indeed.
> I do wonder why you still even bother? It seems no one is interested
> in facts and determined to kill the entire pipe scene and hobby by
> unleashing wild rumors. Point to articles, studies and hard fact and
> the only thing you'll get is that you're being ignored.
Why do people do anything? To make a difference. If I get one person
to listen, then I will have been successful. I just didn't realize it
would be this difficult :-)
It amazes me how one mans personal truth can become universal without
anybody even bothering to ask the source. An example could be a group
of people arguing about the components of a blend. Nobody even
entertains the thought of asking the blender. I'm guessing the value
of the argument by far outweighs the value of factual knowledge. With
knowledge there's no discussion.
> No cheers to that, but cheers to you for still trying,
Thanks.
Col. CraggyBlast
>
> - Show quoted text -
ML,
I asked my tobacconist about current Dunhill sales. I was told that
it sells about the same as it always had (recent history), and the
folks who traditionally bought Dunhill blends under Murray's are still
buying the current blends without complaint. So clearly, you're not
alone; others likes them, too.
corneel....@gmail.com
On Jan 18, 10:45 pm, Lars Wiberg <slar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I do wonder why you still even bother? It seems no one is interested
> > in facts and determined to kill the entire pipe scene and hobby by
> > unleashing wild rumors. Point to articles, studies and hard fact and
> > the only thing you'll get is that you're being ignored.
>
> Why do people do anything? To make a difference. If I get one person
> to listen, then I will have been successful. I just didn't realize it
> would be this difficult :-)
You got my attention a long time ago.
> It amazes me how one mans personal truth can become universal without
> anybody even bothering to ask the source. An example could be a group
> of people arguing about the components of a blend. Nobody even
> entertains the thought of asking the blender. I'm guessing the value
> of the argument by far outweighs the value of factual knowledge. With
> knowledge there's no discussion.
As an aside, I have the impression people are fundamentally lazy,
too. It's probably nice to feel righteous and aloof, on top of the
world and convinced of your own great truth -- facts only get in the
way of that. Looking for information also requires an effort, and the
energy put into that is probably better put into some other dumb
unfounded ranting and raving over something invented and conjured up
out of thin air.
First bitching about Dunhill not caring for customers, then bitch
about them actually caring and trying to stay in business, then
boycotting the brand and then all of a sudden people are surprized the
products disappear altogether.
Lars Wiberg
"no more? OMG" .. "They suck anyway .. The Orlicck stuff blows" ..
"Chances are you have never tasted the ORLIK version. I can't say what
Orlick makes, but it must be some kind of Hong Kong operation" ..
"Dunhill gone .. Who cares, I have C&D Bow Legged Bear" .. "Yeah Bow
Legged Bear rocks" .. "you're racist man" ..
3 years of history in one neat and tidy little package.
ML
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks Col.--same response I've found here as well. Sure some things
change with new owners, but the blends that went away in 07, and now
if they stop with currents?, well its a loss. Thanks for your info
there, and found same basically here. It never ceases to amaze me, in
that all of us are different...and thus one man's to die for blonde
will be another man's pass'em up. Blends are blends and there are sooo
many factors that go into the why it works and does not for someone.
Its great discussion in the merits...but its all so subjective. Beyond
ingredients, and percentages, its all in taste and the DNA of the
person behind the stem.
I need to be reminded of that. And the changes coming if they do?--
well, its just a part of everything else thats going on--once you stop
changing, you are through. Personally, LOL, my good wife and I hate to
start falling in love with any decent restaurant--as whenEVER we do
over these 40yrs+, they quite. Must be us...bests all...
ML. [z3keeper---ABOUT to light up a kindly lit, but defiant Royal
Yacht that is as sweet and a liiiiittle spicy as a fine lady after
concert and dinner on a Saturday night in Picadilly. ]
corneel....@gmail.com
Sad but true.
I'd also like to point out that this little subthread is apparently
being ignored as well.
*sigh*
As I said, why even bother? It looks like people can most certainly
keep this up for another 3 years, at least.
What a tragic waste of time.
Stephen Farrow
> I'm confused. Who is BAT?
British American Tobacco.
--
Stephen
Veronica: I don't know if I like the idea of you running around a place
full of armed, drunk businessmen.
Keith: That's why I rarely go to Texas.
Sagiter
believe closed them down and had Orlik a Danish company continue with the
blends.
I could be wrong about everything except that BAT is British American
Tobacco.
Neil
--
Neil Flancbaum
Craftsman
Home of the Ultimate Pipe Bag
http://www.smokinholsters.com
"Col. CraggyBlast" <scfowl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:475756aa-ac16-4fcc...@1g2000hsl.googlegroups.com...
Col. CraggyBlast
Thank you, Stephen.
Col. CraggyBlast
> BAT is British American Tobacco who I do believe bought Murray's and I do
> believe closed them down and had Orlik a Danish company continue with the
> blends.
>
> I could be wrong about everything except that BAT is British American
> Tobacco.
>
> Neil
>
> --
> Neil Flancbaum
> Craftsman
> Home of the Ultimate Pipe Baghttp://www.smokinholsters.com
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thank you, Neil.
Briarroot
LMAO!
As Jimmy Durante would have said, "ain't dat da trute!" ;-)
Regards,
Tim Parker ... Barbary Coast in a basket bulldog
--
"You don't make the poor richer by making the rich poorer." - Winston
Churchill
KIM KOCHER
Kim
"ML" <mlhi...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:f9a38dad-3c73-4409...@v46g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
corneel....@gmail.com
> BAT is British American Tobacco who I do believe bought Murray's and I do
> believe closed them down and had Orlik a Danish company continue with the
> blends.
>
> I could be wrong about everything except that BAT is British American
> Tobacco.
About BAT: ( http://bat.com/ ):
http://bordermail.yourguide.com.au/articles/1111490.html?src=borderredirect
Orlik buying tobacco trademarks from BAT:
http://www.forbes.com/markets/feeds/afx/2007/02/20/afx3445004.html
BAT news report on this:
http://www.bat.com/group/sites/uk__3mnfen.nsf/vwPagesWebLive/DO6YLL7X?opendocument&SKN=1&TMP=1
Notable quote there:
> British American Tobacco will continue to sell pipe tobacco under the
> Dunhill and Captain Black brands.
IOW, the production has been outsourced, but BAT still owns the
trademarks.
Older post about Dunhill:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.smokers.pipes/msg/2122a507490cb0a6?hl=en&
Note Richemont being mentioned.
Whose that? http://richemont.com/ quote:
> Richemont owns several of the world's leading companies in the field of
> luxury goods, with particular strengths in jewellery, luxury watches and
> writing instruments.
>
> In addition to its Luxury business, Richemont holds a significant
> investment in British American Tobacco - one of the world's leading
> tobacco groups.
http://www.richemont.com/our_businesses.html
Take note that Alfred Dunhill is mentioned there.
Alfred Dunhill, ltd:
http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/product-compint-0001097476-page.html
"International subsidiary"
A nice write-up about all this here:
http://www.mindless.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=129&Itemid=69
Hope that cleared things up,
Brian Barcus
>
> I'd also like to point out that this little subthread is apparently
> being ignored as well.
>
the whole topic reminds me I need to put in a tobacco order. I've
got a taste for some London Blend.
--
"But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty
gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
-- Thomas Jefferson, 1782
Brian Barcus
>
> Gareth and all who follow...I have to weigh in on this one...have been
> silent when so many have dumbed out the current Dunhills, but they are
> fine mellow, no bite smokes
>
am new enough to them that I didn't know any of the older blends for
comparison. What I do know is that new Dunhills that I have tried
have been very nice smokes for exactly the reasons you said.
wls...@aol.com
Certainly no offence intended to non-Dunhill lovers. Each to his / her
own, I suppose. I just think that it seems like a loss to the wider
community of pipesmokers, whether you like the stuff or not, to see so
many old names taken off the shelves. I can think of plenty of blends
which, having tried them a couple of times, I would never again bring
within a mile of any pipe of mine (think University Flake, and Blue
Note). But I know that other people enjoy them and I'd hate to see
them withdrawn, because that would affect the pleasure of those
smokers who do appreciate them, and would also mean less diversity
overall.
I had the pleasure - and it was truly a 'pleasure' - of smoking some
of the Dunhill shop-only blends sold in the London store before they
were withdrawn a few years ago. But as perhaps one of the younger
smokers here (I took up the pipe aged 21, and am now 43) I don't
honestly know whether I ever smoked any of the older Dunhill tinned
stuff while it was still produced by AD themselves, so don't know how
it compared quality-wise with the modern product, and am quite
prepared to concede to those of you who know what they're talking
about on that point.
All I can say is that there were a couple of their current blends
which I thoroughly enjoyed smoking (965 in particular), and which I'll
miss greatly. And whether you like something or not is subjective; by
definition, a personal preference can't be 'right' or 'wrong'. If I
like something, then as far as I'm concerned it's good - no matter
what someone else says. To say that any particular tobacco is
universally good, or bad, is as daft as saying that blue is, or isn't
a nice colour.
Oh, and on politicking: apologies if I overstepped the mark, but I'm
pretty new to posting stuff so don't really know what's considered OT,
and what's not. I'll learn by my mistakes.........
Gareth W
On 18 Jan, 22:36, "KIM KOCHER" <KKOCHER...@woh.rr.com> wrote:
> I LOVES Orlick's Yacht !
>
> Kim
>
> "ML" <mlhill...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
KIM KOCHER
anti tobacco as 'the nannies' then we can all agree with you and chose to
attribute that moniker to whichever side of the political fence that suits
us individually. ;>} This group 'sides up' all the time. Don't worry about
it.
Kim
<wls...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:8113b153-cfbe-45a5...@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
Luke Oberley
Politics, personal taste preferences, and all else aside, it is sad
that the variety available to today's pipe smoker is diminished by the
end of production of this tobacco line (is this a run on sentence??).
I'm not a huge fan of the Dunhill line, though I have tried a number
of their blends and find them to be quite good. I know many people
have found a quality difference as Dunhill has switched blenders, but
that is neither here nor there. What matters is that, no matter the
blender, it will not be available anymore.
Thank you Gareth, for investigating this, and for the thoughtfulness
and courtesy that prompted you to warn those interested in stockpiling
their favorite blends while they can still find them.
Luke
jw
414cca...@v46g2000hsv.googlegroups.com:
> It never ceases to amaze me, in that all of us are different...and
> thus one man's to die for blonde will be another man's pass'em up
Hey ML, I liked your typo, and I'm assuming it is Freudian. ;-) I know
I've seen my fair share of "to die for blonde's", but I did marry a
brunette. Cheers!
--
jw
Luke Oberley
It's not so much that your contributions to the thread were being
ignored; there are a large number of us on this side of the pond who
were either at class or work, and unable to gain internet access.
Anyhoo, it's water under the bridge. Your exchange was interesting
and educational. Trust me, I'll pipe up if I have any questions or
comments.
Luke
Jari T
Funny, but oh so true and to the point! Awfully well put, Lars.
I followed a similar thread, started by the same fellow, on another
forum couple of weeks ago. Its course was pretty much the same as this
here. Well, it did lack the finer insights and nuances of global and
party politics presented here already. Oh, I do predict though, that
"The Tobak Nazi's did this"-aspect of this fine discourse will
undoubtebly follow any time now.
Unlike you and Corneel, I haven't personally checked any facts with any
trustworthy sources (like the present manufacturer Orlik), about this
matter, because... well, you guys already did. Lazy me.
While I find it sad that the now former distributor (BAT) of the (Orlik
manufactured) Dunhill blends still being made, has apparently decided to
sell their trademarks of Dunhill tobacco blends and cease their
distribution *IN BRITAIN*, I still look forward smoking some of these
blends in the future. While I do realise that they are total crap now,
merely shadows and caricatures of their brilliant former glory, but I
sorta like them. Stupid me.
--
Jari T in Helsinki
BradGad
Yup, that's my experience too. I've been smoking a pipe for three to
four years now. Guess that makes me a total gormless noobie. But, the
Dunhill tobaccos I've smoked (965, Nightcap, Durbar, London Mixture)
have all been very nice tobaccos, and good values. They hold their own
with the other stuff I smoke (crappy drugstore blends like
Westminster, Reiner LGF, Escudo, SG BBF, SG FVF, Haddo's, Squadron
Leader, Stonehaven). 965 has given me as many all-the-planets-aligning
smokes as any other blend out there. And, the one Dunhill pipe I own
is a thing of beauty and by far the best smoker I have.
Jari T
Thanks C!
It did to me. Hopfully others will follow those links as well. I had
missed that fine aggregate Dunhill post by "pipeman".
(Sorry, I haven't been in contact, will mail you soon...)
BradGad
Yup, that's been my experience too. I've been smoking a pipe for 3-4
years now (so I guess I'm a total gormless noobie). The Dunhill
English blends I've smoked (965, Nightcap, London Mixture, Durbar)
have all been thoroughly enjoyable, and an excellent value. (I don't
care for Royal Yacht.) They stand up fine next to the other tobaccos I
smoke (crappy drugstore blends like Westminster, Reiner's LGF, SG BBF,
SG FVF, SG Squadron Leader, Haddo's, Stonehaven, Escudo). 965 has
given me as many this-is-it, all-the-planets-align smoking experiences
as anything else out there. And, the one Dunhill pipe I own is a thing
of beauty and by far my best smoker.
(sorry, if this appears twice. I posted, and noticed it wasn't showing
up after eight minutes or so.... and did want to weigh in on this
topic.)
Kingi
stop spreading ur filthy lies and get the facts straight.
wls...@aol.com
live and where shortly you won't be able to buy any more Dunhill-
branded tobacco.
If you can still buy the stuff in a few months time, then I imagine
you 'spawned' somewhere else, and are still living there. I've no idea
what the situation will be with Dunhill in the States; hence my
question to other ASPers in my original posting, which you'd have seen
if you'd read to the end.
I understand, from two tobacconists (Davidoff, and Fox, both of St
James Street, London) that in mainland Europe the stuff will continue
to be made by Orlik, but will not be imported into the UK as no
commercial agreement has been reached. I've no idea whether it will be
imported into the US - and never suggested it wouldn't.
If you feel the need to fact check my original posting, I suggest you
call the company which produces the stuff for the UK market, British
American Tobacco. You can reach the switchboard at their corporate HQ
in London on +44 -207-845-1000.
Gareth W
grous...@gmail.com
guess her letter writing campaign paid off.