Towards a final resolution of WHAT? (background)
Talysman
since the SubGenii have no idea what it was I said to so enfuriate
Brandon, here is a repost of the articles that started it all, in
the thread named "Answering my own question". see also the thread
"MAKING YOUR OWN GODS". I should also probably repost some of
Brandon's marvelous reactions, but I'm sure he'll provide plenty
himself.
also, I should include these two excerpts from the "trigger" thread:
there is also something to be said about making your own shackles,
every day, to be worn around your neck before placing them on
tomorrow morning's god.
and:
you make shackles/gods *DAILY* so that you learn about how
artificial they are, and thus free yourself from them.
note especially the quotes from a surrealist in post #4 that
support my statements about creating gods as a surrealist act.
=====POST #1=====
[ Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 14:10:40 -0600
Message-ID: <AXVC2UMJ...@softhome.net> ]
in amazement, I beheld "Brandon J. Freels" <Fre...@ethergate.com>
write in alt.surrealism:
"This xepera individual should spend more time reading
"surrealist novels than ancient Egyptian texts, and should realize there is
"not god, no mad scientist, and definitely no reason for thinking there is.
as a pantheist, I object.
religion shouldn't be rejected because it is a worship of gods,
but because it is a worship of *dead* gods. the imagination
creates all gods, so gods are a proper object of surrealism.
anything which destroys gods (either atheism or religion) is
a foe of surrealism.
practice any religion you want, as long as you make up a new
pantheon and catechism every morning.
=====POST #2=====
[ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 01:58:21 -0600
Message-ID: <d00C2UMJ...@softhome.net> ]
in amazement, I beheld "Brandon J. Freels" <Fre...@ethergate.com>
write in alt.surrealism:
"Do gods really help push towards the emancipation of the mind? The freedom
"of man and the mind can only be obtained when we completely abandon all
"religion. If you make up a god every morning I will accept it. If you try to
"make everyone else believe in that god, I'll chew up your skull with my
"loins of steel.
how can you abandon religion? where do you think it comes from?
you can run from yourself all day, but you will never escape.
if this sounds pessimistic, remember: you won't lose any ground,
either.
if you accept my god, you will be one step behind, because by then
I will have made up a new one. MAKE YOUR OWN. you have scissors.
every morning in neandertal times, men looked everywhere and saw
a spirit, and thus began a great game which too many people --
priests and atheists in particular -- take too seriously. a god
is just a metaphor that lives, if only for a short while. when
the god dies, you have a funeral, and give birth to a new one.
are you so angry at metaphor? I do not believe it.
and as for the emancipation of the mind: the funny thing is,
you were never truely unfree until you chose to be so. if the
gods are unreal, you are a fool to believe they enslave you.
if they *are* real, then making new gods to fight the old ones
is no sin.
=====POST #3=====
[ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 02:06:38 -0600
Message-ID: <O80C2UMJ...@softhome.net> ]
in amazement, I beheld barrett john erickson <bar...@MagneticFields.org>
write in alt.surrealism:
"Talysman wrote:
"
"> [..]
"
"> religion shouldn't be rejected because it is a worship of gods,
"> but because it is a worship of *dead* gods. the imagination
"> creates all gods, so gods are a proper object of surrealism.
"> anything which destroys gods (either atheism or religion) is
"> a foe of surrealism.
"perhaps you can enlighten us as to how you arrived at this perverted
"concept of surrealism?
surrealism = creativity
destruction != creativity
do the math. I believe you made the same argument about dada.
AHA! you are pierced by my sharp horns. will you embrace dada
to defeat the gods, or embrace the gods to defeat dada? which
is the greater enemy of surrealism?
I'm leafing through a little book called ARSENAL that purports
to be surrealist. I see some anti-religion messages, but they
all seem to be against *organized* religion. mixed in with these
are praises for the way native americans viewed the entire world
as sacred, references to Kabballah, references to alchemy,
references to the pantheism of Spinoza. how am I to interpret
this? are these so-called surrealists mere PERVERTS, as you
claim?
was William Blake a foe of the imagination, or its best friend?
eagerly awaiting your response.
=====POST #4=====
[ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 02:14:48 -0600
Message-ID: <4PfD2UMJ...@softhome.net> ]
in amazement, I beheld xister <where@?who.cansay?> write
in alt.surrealism:
"Brandon J. Freels wrote:
"> >was William Blake a foe of the imagination, or its best friend?
"> At times both.
"How convenient an answer, would the same be true for Dali being that he
"believed in (*shudder*) Catholicism?I find it interesting and at the same time
"frustrating that heros of mine (Blake, Dali, and others) that I think would
"renounce anything as silly as an organized religion, yet they believed....
"Wholeheartedly. This is why I believe that as a (quote)surrealist(unquote) I'll
"keep my options open, and not choose to disbelieve anything *too* much.
"Although one thing I have noticed is that Dali and Blake especially seemed to
"take the symbols/words of the Christian faith (read: the one god
"theory/Catholicism) and make them irrivocably their own in their art. In my
"view that's better than blind faith (then of course, what isnt?)
Blake can hardly be condemned for Catholicism or for adherence
to the One God theory. first, before he embarked on his personal
poetic vision, he was a member of a Swedenborgian (or pseudo-
Swedenborgian) church; this was more like a precursor to spiritualism
or theosophy. second, his poetry is centered around a created
mythology heavily influenced by Kabballah, with the gods Urthona,
Los, Red Orc, &c. emanating from an unnamed and unnameable impersonal
godhead. third, his use of Christian symbols were completely
reversed; a good thorough reading of _The Marriage of Heaven & Hell_
will dispell any notion that Blake was a Christian in the usual
sense of the term (angels routinely represent the forces of evil
in his prophesies; Red Orc, the incarnation of violence and rebellion,
is a heroic figure; and the devil in _Marriage of Heaven & Hell_
symbolizes Blake himself.)
I read in this Arsenal book a review of Malcolm de Chazal's
work; he was praised by Breton as one of the three greatest
surrealist poets in the French language since WWII. here are
quotes from the review that may help you reconcile your love
for Blake with your love for surrealism:
Breton--whose admiration for Chazal, as we have seen,
was immense--was one of those who argued that [Chazal's]
occasional "mystical" language was really more heretical
and hermetic than religious. As Georges Bataille pointed
out around that time, Chazal was much closer to William
Blake than to St. Theresa.
and later on:
It is unthinkable, in any case, that Chazal's writings--
any more than Blake's or Fourier's or Saint-Paul-Roux'
or Jarry's--could be appropriated by religionists for
apologetic ends.
one more quote, since it's relevant to the debate going on
in this thread. Chazal apparently was rewriting the Bible
in his own vision, and his _Pentateuque_ states that "in
the beginning, *light* existed without God, who was not yet
born--and that it was *man* who, in creating God, thereby
constructed the universe."
I actually had not read that sentence before I talked of
creating gods. my influence was mainly Blake and Robert
Anton Wilson.
=====END=====
--
Dobbs comes surging out against the Conspiracy's stupidity like a
multicolored snake from a vending machine!
His Most Feathered Eminence, the Ur-Beatle
Last Hidden Ascended Master
ICEKNIFE
Talysman wrote in message ...
<something surreal that skittered under a counter when the lights went on>
There is no such thing as "surrealism", except as a poorly thought up mental
construct.
That's all it is... a bad idea we use to describe things that don't fit our
mapping structure the way we expected.
Once up on a time, I met a man on the road who wept and look confused. When
I asked him what was wrong, he told me that his life had taken on a surreal
air and he simply couldn't connect with anything any more. Feeling sorry for
him I slammed my arm all the way up his ass and tore out his entrails. We
connected. Things became real.
when surrealism seems to encroach, be mindful that yer jerking yourself off,
or some merry fuckwit like me will happily get shit on their arm to the
elbow to help you make it back to wet and winsome world of bile, blood,
piss, tears, and pus.
Or are you talking about the surrealist "movement"? I don't mean to disturb
anyone's marketing ploy! After all, I'm a "slurealist" m'owndamnself! well,
for money...
KILL EVERYONE WHO WILL NOT WORSHIP MY LITTLE PONY!
SEND SASE & 2$ TO: P.O. BOX 140306 DALLAS TX 75214
Nikolaus Maack
I went to White Rose, the local arts supply store and bought nine doll
heads. They were on sale for two dollars Canadian for a pack of three.
When I got them home, I painted their faces red, painted blue squares on
their cheeks, green crosses on their foreheads, their eyes orange, their
lips pink. Now they look Satanic.
Inside each doll head I have placed a note. Each note consists of a
cryptic fortune-cookie-like message, followed by my email address. Two
doll heads have already been set free. Seven remain, and will soon be
scattered to various locations. It is my hope that these messages in doll
heads screw up people's brains.
When someone steps into that phone booth outside of McDonald's and finds
this grotesque looking blonde head staring back at them, will their first
instinct be to pick it up? Will they notice there's a folded-up piece of
paper inside the skull? Will they manage to take it out somehow? Will
they read it? Will they send me email?
Results -- if any -- will be posted.
All you so-called surrealists, get off your butts and go out and startle
the world. Then report back here. Church of SubGenius members! Bob
orders you to attack "normallacy". Do so or be damned to a suit and tie
and a nine to five job. Create oddity and spread it around. I order you
all to misbehave.
"ICEKNIFE" (icek...@lanminds.com) writes:
> There is no such thing as "surrealism", except as a poorly thought up mental
> construct.
Life is a poorly thought up mental construct. Besides, definitions are
dangerous. They limit experience. Let us define no word. Instead, let
us run around feeding secrets to the squirrels. Why sit in your room and
write papers and essays and postings on the topic of "surrealism" and
"slack"? Go outside and do something. Traumatize the damned.
Nik
PS.
The American Polka King is dead.
--
"Why do I love you? Because you like me the way I like myself
to be. And you filled all of the ice cube trays."
nu-monet
>
> I went to White Rose, the local arts supply store and bought nine doll
> heads. They were on sale for two dollars Canadian for a pack of three.
> When I got them home, I painted their faces red, painted blue squares on
> their cheeks, green crosses on their foreheads, their eyes orange, their
> lips pink. Now they look Satanic.
>
> Inside each doll head I have placed a note. Each note consists of a
> cryptic fortune-cookie-like message, followed by my email address. Two
> doll heads have already been set free. Seven remain, and will soon be
> scattered to various locations. It is my hope that these messages in doll
> heads screw up people's brains.
>
> When someone steps into that phone booth outside of McDonald's and finds
> this grotesque looking blonde head staring back at them, will their first
> instinct be to pick it up? Will they notice there's a folded-up piece of
> paper inside the skull? Will they manage to take it out somehow? Will
> they read it? Will they send me email?
>
> Results -- if any -- will be posted.
>
> All you so-called surrealists, get off your butts and go out and startle
> the world. Then report back here. Church of SubGenius members! Bob
> orders you to attack "normallacy". Do so or be damned to a suit and tie
> and a nine to five job. Create oddity and spread it around. I order you
> all to misbehave.
DAMN! That's the best advice I've heard anyone give here in a while.
And halloween is almost upon us...
I'm think of going as a vampire *killer*, then throwing "holy" water on
them and act all pissy when they don't disintigrate.
Last year, Sister Mary Agro dressed up like a naked corpse in see-through
white muslin. She would walk up to couples and ask the girl, "Scare your
boyfriend for a dollar?"
The girls always said, "Yes!", for some reason.
Then Agro would throw herself on the guy while screaming bloody murder
right in his face, sometimes knocking him over...
...and scaring the *shit* out of him.
Her biggest tip, on top of her fee, was $20.
ICEKNIFE
Nikolaus Maack wrote in message <704sid$j...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>...
<festive dollhed thing deleted>
>All you so-called surrealists, get off your butts and go out and startle
>the world. Then report back here. Church of SubGenius members! Bob
>orders you to attack "normallacy". Do so or be damned to a suit and tie
>and a nine to five job. Create oddity and spread it around. I order you
>all to misbehave.
ugh. thanks, but living in Berkeley, that'd be vaguely redundant, and i
can't swing the other way because i'm not feeling at all well and don't do
"normal" any more than i have to (and then only for money).
> "ICEKNIFE" (icek...@lanminds.com) writes:
>> There is no such thing as "surrealism", except as a poorly thought up
mental
>> construct.
>Life is a poorly thought up mental construct. Besides, definitions are
life is a little dance DNA does. unless you mean of the system itself???
hmmm... hadn't really considered it. I'll wait 'til i've seen a lot more
combinations of it.
>dangerous. They limit experience. Let us define no word. Instead, let
>us run around feeding secrets to the squirrels. Why sit in your room and
the squirrels have secrets of their own
>write papers and essays and postings on the topic of "surrealism" and
>"slack"? Go outside and do something. Traumatize the damned.
this is relief from spending too much time outside. it's election season,
and i get quite too much of enough of the damned damned already.
> Nik
>PS.
>The American Polka King is dead.
ok. thank you.
GOAT BONES PLAY A BIGGER ROLE IN YOUR LIFE THAN YOU KNOW:
His Most Feathered Eminence
again:
in amazement, I beheld "ICEKNIFE" <icek...@lanminds.com> write in
alt.slack:
"Talysman wrote in message ...
"<something surreal that skittered under a counter when the lights went on>
"
"There is no such thing as "surrealism", except as a poorly thought up mental
"construct.
"That's all it is... a bad idea we use to describe things that don't fit our
"mapping structure the way we expected.
[ ... ]
"Or are you talking about the surrealist "movement"? I don't mean to disturb
"anyone's marketing ploy! After all, I'm a "slurealist" m'owndamnself! well,
"for money...
yep, we were talking about the movement. liberate the masses
and reintegrate imagination into the political process. that
sort of thing. or rather, we were arguing about whether a
couple of academic surrealists with puckered sphincters could
order people out of the surrealist movement because they
didn't agree with some line of BS put forth at one of the
international surrealist congresses.
I have no idea what you thought we were talking about.
--
JAHWEH DAVE: "If you'll excuse me now, gentlemen,
I must staple my penises together."
His Most Feathered Eminence, the Ur-Beatle
your best friend. ever.
Talysman
alt.slack:
"Nikolaus Maack wrote in message <704sid$j...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>...
"
"<festive dollhed thing deleted>
I think you were too quick to dismiss that doll's head project.
it sounded pretty promising. soon as I'm done with my current
projects, I'm gonna try me some things.
I think an even better elaboration of the doll's head thing would
be to LAUNCH them heads. imagine some people picnicing in the
park having a MACABRE DOLL'S HEAD DRIPPING IN "BLOOD" come flying
out of the sky!
--
Your thirteen clitorises strongly suggest your amorality.
His Most Feathered Eminence, the Ur-Beatle
your best friend. ever.
ICEKNIFE
Talysman wrote in message ...
>alt.slack:
>
>"Nikolaus Maack wrote in message <704sid$j...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>...
>"
>"<festive dollhed thing deleted>
>
>I think you were too quick to dismiss that doll's head project.
>it sounded pretty promising. soon as I'm done with my current
>projects, I'm gonna try me some things.
>
>I think an even better elaboration of the doll's head thing would
>be to LAUNCH them heads. imagine some people picnicing in the
>park having a MACABRE DOLL'S HEAD DRIPPING IN "BLOOD" come flying
>out of the sky!
Far from dismissing it, I think it's a very worthy project... note the use
of the word FESTIVE, which I usually reserve for activiities that involve
large breasts.
Problem is, in a town like this (as though the gods ALLOWED more than one
city like this to exist in an era) if I did something like that, I'd get
e-mail from goths about how cool it was. jeeeez.... so instead, I buy the
cheapest meat I can, or chittluns, if the store has 'em, and sew large
magnets into it, and leave it stuck high up on lamp posts and other metal
structures. It's fun to watch the people standing around pointing at the
rotting meat. I'm gonna start recording the conversations.
also fun is using a brush and cow blood to leave cryptic messages around
town...
like "and the streets will run red like a river of blood" and "the begining
of the end? you're soaking in it..."
also, I know a local artist (I won't call him a friend because he reads
alt.slack and would use it as an excuse to borrow money, fuck you Allen, no,
you can't borrow any money) who makes these really nifty turds outta wax and
clay and paper mache and just about anything EXCEPT shit. He leaves them in
unlikely places, like museum floors and hardware stores. well, everyone's
gotta have a hobby...
xister
ICEKNIFE wrote:
> <big snip>
>
> also, I know a local artist (I won't call him a friend because he reads
> alt.slack and would use it as an excuse to borrow money, fuck you Allen, no,
> you can't borrow any money) who makes these really nifty turds outta wax and
> clay and paper mache and just about anything EXCEPT shit. He leaves them in
> unlikely places, like museum floors and hardware stores. well, everyone's
> gotta have a hobby...
Fresh moist brownies work well for this. If you mold a big one just right, it
looks like a St. Bernard took a dump. There's even a moist sheen to the "turd"
for enhanced effect. I used to put them on the sidewalk at a local coffeehouse
that I used to hang out at, and waited for friends to come around. If they
mentioned the turd, I would say, "Oh, I'll get rid of that" and would promptly
pick it up and stuff it in my mouth. One girl I knew actually had a gag reflex
to that prank.
--
Reply (sans hyphen) to the x-i...@earthlink.net
Things are going to slide, slide in all directions
Won't be nothin' you can measure anymore
The Blizzard of the world has crossed the threshold
and it's overturned the order of the soul...
When they said, "Repent!" I wondered what they meant.
I've seen the future brother, it is murder...
-LEONARD COHEN-
perceptor
I came across a double headed latex dildo about 20
inches long. I cut it in half and sealed it in a supermarket
meat tray with the original label which read "rib lifters",
gave instructions for BBQ and the price of $3.98.
I snuck it into the market , placed it carefully back into
the meat cooler and then watched the expressions on
the faces of the shoppers who would pick it up and look
at it . Hours of free fun
Popess Lilith von Fraumench
<where@?who.cansay?> wrote:
> Fresh moist brownies work well for this. If you mold a big one just right, it
> looks like a St. Bernard took a dump. There's even a moist sheen to the "turd"
> for enhanced effect. I used to put them on the sidewalk at a local
coffeehouse
> that I used to hang out at, and waited for friends to come around. If they
> mentioned the turd, I would say, "Oh, I'll get rid of that" and would promptly
> pick it up and stuff it in my mouth. One girl I knew actually had a gag reflex
> to that prank.
Good thing you're THERE and I'm HERE. I might wait for your back to be
turned and pull a Gypsy Switch.
P.Lil
--
Reverend Doktor Saint Popess ( <jimmyswaggert mood="weepy">
Lilith von Fraumench, Esquire ) Thank you, G'Broagfran...
change ZubJ to SubG in reply ( ...for your sweet blessings!
http://bounce.to/p-lil ) </jimmyswaggert>