I just put "Let's Visit the World of the Future" back together
Rev. Ivan Stang
"World of the Future" is this underground movie I made in my one year
of college (I only attended college to get the "free" equipment.) I had
edited 15 minutes out of the PRINT. In 16mm film there is a 26-frame
separation between the picture and the sound. If I was splicing the
film print back together -- now that's an idea, if I could lay my hands
on a guillotine splicer after all these years -- but I can't afford
another transfer anyway -- if I was doing that, it'd be easy. But I'm
doing it on video. So I had to take the audio off the first 26 frames
of each incoming previously discarded shot and lay it onto the LAST 26
frames of the PREVIOUS short... well anyway what I'm saying is, it was
complicated.
The 15 minutes were removed for being too WEIRD. In 1974 there was no
such thing as a David Lynch. Maybe there was a Werner Herzog. Anyway
the hippie audiences of 1974 were NOT ready for it. Punk had not been
invented, and this movie was very Punk.
I never even bothered to enter it in a single film festival! But I sent
it to The Firesign Theater and to DEVO -- and that worked! David Ossman
showed it at the Papoon convention in Kansas in '76, and DEVO hired me
to do animated Ken's and Barbies.
Speaking of which, I FOUND A BUNCH OF KEN AND BARBIE RAPE-VIOLENCE
ANIMATION that had been cut from World of the Future! About 30 second's
worth. Really NASTY. I was very influenced by S. Clay Wilson and Robert
Crumb in those days, and Robert Williams. And Justin Green. Before I
did World of the Future I wrote Justin Green and asked him if I could
make "Binky Brown Meets the Holy Virgin Mary". He said no because I
sounded like too much of an asshole in my letter to him. (I don't blame
him -- I WAS trying way too hard. I was 18.)
The most fun aspect was being able to eyeball the thing a frame at a
time and study these old black and white 16mm frames of classmate girls
that were in the movie that I wanted to fuck so badly then, but that I
utterly forgot until yesterday when I was studying the crowd scenes. I
got everybody I knew, and lots of people I didn't know, to be in that
movie. I got entire cub scout troops to be in that movie.
I wonder if any of those people ever heard of Church of the SubGenius
and connected it with me. Probably so, and decided they wanted to avoid
me. I got some strange furtive looks at my last class reunion.
I will post a VCD or more likely an SVCD of this thing to
a.b.monter-movies. I have a SHITLOAD to post all of a sudden.
And I prepped my VERY FIRST MOVIE! "The Human Animal," 1965, when I was
11. 8mm. Not really my first movie but the first one with a story and
with splices in it. I played the monster, natch. A werewolf --
utilizing the new "Beatle Wig" and a fake beard and fangs. My brother
and Tommy Williams played 3 victims each. (One clean-shaven, one with a
mustache drawn on, one from behind.) We filmed it with a Brownie Fun
Saver, an 8mm Kodak camera that sold for... TEN DOLLARS. Film was 2
bucks per five minute roll including processing. I shoveled dog shit in
my folks' kennels to pay for it. It's 11 minutes long and features lots
of kids spitting up red food coloring.
I added MUSIC to it today. Soundtrack clips from these Universal
pictures: Bride of Frankenstein, Ghost of Frankenstein and The Wolfman.
It makes this earnest child monster movie PRETTY FUNNY because it so
POIGNANTLY points up both what we were striving for, the Universal
classics, and how far we were from having any kind of a clue
whatsoever.
At least it's only 11 minutes.
--
The SubGenius Foundation, Inc.
(4th Stangian Orthodox MegaFisTemple Lodge of the Wrath of Dobbs Yeti,
Resurrected, Rev. Ivan Stang, prop.)
P.O. Box 181417, Cleveland, OH 44118 (fax 216-320-9528)
Dobbs-Approved Authorized Commercial Outreach of The Church of the SubGenius
SubSITE: http://www.subgenius.com
For SubGenius Biz & Orders: call toll free to 1-888-669-2323
or email: je...@subgenius.com
PRABOB
iDRMRSR
scenes. But I don't know if I can WATCH it.
I've told you before, of all the things you've put together, this one CREEPS
ME OUT the most, and I can't even put my finger on why. It takes a mighty
force to creep me out, too.
I kind of think it's because you got too close to some TRUTH which is
recognized internally by the human brane. It's kind of like my brane is
thinking, NO NO...YOU WEREN"T SUPPOSE TO UNDERSTAND THAT IS HOW THINGS ARE!
AND NOW THAT YOU HAVE, I MUST KILL YOU!
It's the one movie that makes my head hurt or something. And I know, it's
probably just ME. Anyhow maybe I'll watch it all the way through once
again...either that or jump into a tub of tarantulas naked while gobbling a
big bowl of day old diarrhea, which would trouble me less.
Yer a Genius, Stang. No, make that a SUB genius!
[*]
-----
klink
>
> I added MUSIC to it today. Soundtrack clips from these Universal
> pictures: Bride of Frankenstein, Ghost of Frankenstein and The Wolfman.
> It makes this earnest child monster movie PRETTY FUNNY because it so
> POIGNANTLY points up both what we were striving for, the Universal
> classics, and how far we were from having any kind of a clue
> whatsoever.
>
It sounds like you had fun reliving the past. Unfortunately I missed the
past by a good decade or so. I like to shoot Super8mm film. But it is
dying faster than an AIDS patient in North Korea. Kodak no longer makes
sound film and they stopped making Ektachrome this year. They
still won't release the K40 process to the public. You gots to send the
cartridges into THEM to get it processed. The local shop charges $17.00 a
roll. Pre-paid processing envelopes from B&H Photo are extra- about $5.00
or $6.00. Then one adds postage to them- three stamps.
Certain local photo places accept Super8mm cartridges and send them off
for processing, but I have long since forgotten which ones do this. And
when you DO find one that does it the employees look at you like a deer
caught in headlights.... "Yes, you must send this off to your masters at
HQ... they will know what to do with it. No, it isn't still film, I
already told you!!!"
I bought a Bell and Howell camera on eBay in 1998. Linda Lavin of 'Alice'
fame held a yard sale about five years ago and picked up her Canon 512XL-S
camera. Of course the "S" is for sound and that part of the camera is
useless today. I wish the format wasn't dropping dead.
Kiss my grits!
klink
nenslo
Well okay Mister Creativity, I have been trying to finish up a painting
I have had in progress for about six months or so (In Progress means on
the easel not being painted) of an abandoned wheelless van completely
filled with trash, and I am at the point now where there is not much
left to work on but the DIRT. Yes that's what I have been reduced to,
painting gravelly weedy dirt with a crushed milk jug and bits of trash
on it. Not like I haven't had practice painting dirt, after the
painting I did of a spot in a salvage yard where a car used to be.
Rev. Ivan Stang
<kl...@kissmyspamhole.com> wrote:
Consider them fully Frenched!
That is some really frightening news, about the processing costs. I
just bought a DV camera and now I better understand why I did that.
I am surprised they were still making sound Super 8 at all after the
80s!
My son, who works in Hollywood at a really slick commercial production
house, and is about three decades ahead of me technologically*, shocked
me by announcing that he'd bought a god damn 16mm Bolex electric motor
sync camera on eBay. Then he told me the average cost of a roll of film
and processing. I asked about workprint and he VERY POLITELY mentioned
how much a VIDEO TRANSFER was. "Work print." Oh man. I am SO old.
Where's my Tana Leaves.
I had a BEAULIEU SUPER 8 camera. You understand what that means? It was
like the Arriflex of Super 8 cameras. It went from 2 fps to 64 or so.
Incredible lens, you could focus down to a bug's tittie with it. After
I shot about 4 years worth of epic Super 8, "The Journey of Shredni
Chisholn," yet to be remixed, I had kids and jobs and shot Betamax home
movies, and that camera languished and rotted, until MY SON resurrected
it and apparently has it running like new again.
This whole thing gives me the idea of ripping my son's videos from DVD
and posting them. He's so high-tech, he doesn't even know what a VCD or
a binaries newsgroup is, hardly. You guys will love this shit. Wait'll
you see the one about J.D. Salinger and his fan. And the one about the
high school student who blows away his teachers. AHAHAHA! Way
pre-Columbine.
Finally I have a reason to "rip" from a DVD!
* The Hour of Slack is mixed and heard on gear I got from my son when
he outgrew it.
Rev. Ivan Stang
<idr...@sssssubgenius.com> wrote:
> Now that's one thing I might D/L is the director's cut of WOTF with restored
> scenes. But I don't know if I can WATCH it.
>
> I've told you before, of all the things you've put together, this one CREEPS
> ME OUT the most, and I can't even put my finger on why. It takes a mighty
> force to creep me out, too.
It's the Bozo Mating Scene. That creeps everybody out. That was the
part that the Firesign Theater guy said he couldn't watch.
The whole thing is very... PURE 18-year-old. And you know, you're
probably at your most intelligent around that age, not that you KNOW
jack-shit... which is what makes it dangerous...
>
> I kind of think it's because you got too close to some TRUTH which is
> recognized internally by the human brane. It's kind of like my brane is
> thinking, NO NO...YOU WEREN"T SUPPOSE TO UNDERSTAND THAT IS HOW THINGS ARE!
> AND NOW THAT YOU HAVE, I MUST KILL YOU!
Oddly enough, my FATHER took that movie very seriously and had me show
it to a bunch of Naval Reservists and their wives! Freaked ME out to do
that. They were appalled, aghast. Like all the hippie audiences who saw
it in theaters, all three or four of those audiences. Also, my old boss
S.F. "Brownie" Brownrigg watched it two or three times in a row in the
projection room at Century Studios, I AM NOT AT ALL SURE WHY. If you
knew this guy, it would be very hard to imagine him watching that
particular movie repeatedly. (HE PLAYED "ZONTAR" incidentally. Wore the
monster suit. And was sound recordist.)
Wait'll you see my dad as God.
What I cut mainly, which is now restored, was a whole scene at the end
which shows how the Bozos will randomly select a human to torture
mentally with all their holograms and bad jokes. God's hand is seen
turning the Reality Switch on and off. It was... uh... both way too
ambitious and way ahead of its time.
The guy who plays the tormented human... his real name was BOB TITLEY.
>
> It's the one movie that makes my head hurt or something. And I know, it's
> probably just ME. Anyhow maybe I'll watch it all the way through once
> again...either that or jump into a tub of tarantulas naked while gobbling a
> big bowl of day old diarrhea, which would trouble me less.
>
> Yer a Genius, Stang. No, make that a SUB genius!
Yeah, if we were geniuses, we'd be rich by now.
I now have a 9 gig file of this recut movie, which I need to turn into
DVD and also all those Internet formats.
Not that I've posted them, but every time we do a movie around here I
render it in VCD, SVCD, RM, mpeg-4 and lo-res mov. And DivX avi. DON'T
ASK ME WHY. Just to have them on a CDR somewhere so when "A Boy and His
Dog" happens, THOSE will be the movies they're showing between old 16mm
pornos and westerns. What an ego trip.
Rev. Ivan Stang
wrote:
Well, at least you're working on something NEW about everything old.
All I was working on was something old about everything new. Only it
isn't new anymore, it's all old too now. Shit.
I can't even imagine what it's like to make a PAINTING. Must be really
fucking tedious as hell.
klink
>
> I had a BEAULIEU SUPER 8 camera. You understand what that means? It was
> like the Arriflex of Super 8 cameras. It went from 2 fps to 64 or so.
> Incredible lens, you could focus down to a bug's tittie with it. After
> I shot about 4 years worth of epic Super 8, "The Journey of Shredni
> Chisholn," yet to be remixed, I had kids and jobs and shot Betamax home
> movies, and that camera languished and rotted, until MY SON resurrected
> it and apparently has it running like new again.
>
I've lusted after the Beaulieu line on and off. It'd be nice to own
one for looks if nothing else. The early models would serve well as a
Mega Death Ray prop gun. The number of bucks required to buy a fine
specimen are out of my league. Low buck prices is one reason why I
like old equipment. Own the cutting edge technology of yesterday TODAY for
half the price of YESTERDAY or even the DAY BEFORE!!!
iDRMRSR
sound film and they stopped making Ektachrome this year. They
still won't release the K40 process to the public.
Yeah, that's because the original process for Ektachrome actually went into
your brane and captured the VISUAL MEMORY of the event. The need for
projector and screen was simpy a RUSE, or more precisely, a hypothalamic
trigger. They actually found a way to reproduce and transmit the actual
visual experience, without optical modality.
I mean, really, how the fuck could some German idiot, working with coal tar
and a big bath of carcinogens, come up with something like color
transparency FILM in the 1930s. Didn't happen, it was actually an offshoot
of Hitler's early occult research.
The big tipoff is in the "reversal" process. You can't just sit there and
reverse a negative. Not without a computer.
Yeah, I grew up with fillum, too. Myself, I preferred Kodachrome 25 still
film, because it was so accurate at rendering sky blue. But then I got to
thinking, technologically, it would have been easier to tint the entire
atmosphere of the earth that exact color just before my birth.
Certainly a good way to jack up the sales numbers. If you colored the
actual sky so that it resembled the color you'd get from kodachrome, well,
everybody would weep at how accurate it was.
That's why I think Ektachrome is actually such a secret. The blues were
never quite exactly right, because they were calling back MORE PRIMITIVE
COLOR MEMORY of the actual sky before they tinted it to match kodachrome!
Now that we have digital stuff, which is probably based upon more
politically correct knowledge imparted by the Greys, it's like fuck'em if
they can't take a joke. The old Nazi technology has to go, right next to
the formula for diesel fuel made from (redacted) which today would cost us
just 22 cents a gallon.
Yeah, you DO have to put up the projector and screen, though, it's part of
the spell. What do you think I am, crazy?
[*]
-----
PS, Agfa and Fuji just NEVER GOT IT RIGHT. Agfa always came out looking
like some Swedish animal pr0n with too much warmth, red, and pastels. And
Fuji, like the color of the box, only captured a small portion of the
spectrum running from light green to light greener.
ArWeGod
news:050920040028557684%st...@subgeniusNOSPUM.com...
> In article <413A7D11...@yahoox.com>, nenslo <nen...@yahoox.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Well okay Mister Creativity, I have been trying to finish up a painting
> > I have had in progress for about six months or so (In Progress means on
> > the easel not being painted) of an abandoned wheelless van completely
> > filled with trash, and I am at the point now where there is not much
> > left to work on but the DIRT. Yes that's what I have been reduced to,
> > painting gravelly weedy dirt with a crushed milk jug and bits of trash
> > on it. Not like I haven't had practice painting dirt, after the
> > painting I did of a spot in a salvage yard where a car used to be.
>
>
> Well, at least you're working on something NEW about everything old.
> All I was working on was something old about everything new. Only it
> isn't new anymore, it's all old too now. Shit.
>
> I can't even imagine what it's like to make a PAINTING. Must be really
> fucking tedious as hell.
Nah. Buy the canvas. Pick 4 colors you like that match the so-called "decor"
of the "furniture" in the room. Lay canvas on tarp. Wet brushes (or paper
towels) with various paint mixtures. If brushes, flick. If paper towels,
realize sponges would work better and throw them out; use new sponges to
dub, drip and smear. Frame. Put fake $300 pricetag near bottom - you'll need
several of these, since everytime someone tells you you've left the price
tag on you have to scrape it of.
Easy Peasy. Simple.Pas de problem. Whatever.
--
ArWeAutistic
M. Shiver
Rev. Ivan Stang
<msg...@charter.net> wrote:
> So when will we see thewe masturpieces, anyhow?
World of the Future is now 43 minutes long. My wife's laptop is very
gradually turning it into an SVCD. I started it "mpeg-ing" just before
I walked to the store. When I got back an hour later it was 10 percent
done. So 9 more hours just for the picture part! (Then I have to do the
sound and then "mux" the two together into the final SVCD mpeg, which
is a pretty high qaulity format, just short of a DVD and playable on a
DVD player if you put the file on a CDR. But that might be too big for
a CDR! (It'll be close.) Then I have to have the laptop RAR the file
which takes another hour or two! Then I have to post it, which takes
all night! So probably tomorrow night on MONTER. And I want to make a
VCD too. That'll for sure fit and I can even cram Reproduction Cycle on
with it.
I will also probably make a much smaller version, like RM or a weenie
little .mov, for alt.binaries.slack.
I'm about to start trying to make a DVD of it on my machine... that's
another rendering chore that takes the machine all night.
The first time I showed the movie in a theater*, in late 1973 or maybe
early '74, I got up on stage with about a dozen people dressed as evil
Bozos, and started giving a speech about how Bulldada would take over
the world. Then a special film started playing on the screen, which me
and Blaine Dunlap had thrown together the weekend before, drunkenly.
The film was me continuing the speech, while gradually morphing into a
Bozo and finally rebelling against the Me below it on stage, finally
hooting RAYS from its fingers and eyes while the live Bozos on stage
followed its lead and "beat me to death" with their Bozo weapons. Then
the movie started.
So there was this intro that involved a hideous monster Me on the
screen interacting with the pathetic little regular Me on the stage.
The rays were very obviously done by scratching lines directly on the
16mm film. It was reversal film, not negative, in the Day.
I am prepping that intro movie also. It's... both good and bad. My
lines and delivery are good but you can tell I'm getting drunker shot
by shot, as we applied more and more make-up. Also I wore shades to
hide the fact that I was reading from a piece of paper during close-ups
-- but in the reflection of the glasses, you can clearly see the script
in my hand! But what the fuck, we did it for pennies on short-ends of
film and probably with all the mayhem on stage the audience was hardly
noticing the little details like the script in the glasses and so on.
I wish there was a photo of me on that stage with those bozos but I
don't think anybody had their act THAT together, or if they did, I
never saw the photo.
I look every bit of my 19 years in this movie. THIRTY TWO YEARS AGO.
OH SHIT!!! HOUR OF SLACK!! I have to chop up the Starwood rant and
music and cut the fucks. My hands are starting to get tired from just
THINKING about the fuck-cutting already.
*The Festival Theater? Near Turtle Creek? On Saturday nights it was
"the underground movies" and the guy who ran it later became Rev. D.
Lee Lama.
nenslo
>
>
> I can't even imagine what it's like to make a PAINTING. Must be really
> fucking tedious as hell.
>
Well it is just one frame, and I can only work on one tiny bit of it at
a time. It's even more tedious when it's finished - doesn't do anything
but take up space.
nenslo
I think he and I are both talking about the kind of painting where you
spend 20 years learning to draw first and then you make it actually look
like something. Which nobody does any more.
HellPopeHuey
You mean like when you get old and cranky and even MORE neurotic and
eat up bandwidth bitching about it? Yeah, I wonder what that's like?
Oh, I'll become mighty famous when I'm dead
Until then I'm a bastard, that's where my road has led
but I'll become an angel when that bullet hits my head
Yes, I'll be a saint the minute I am dead
I will be a famous artist when I'm dead
my work's a rotting rat's nest, out back inside a shed
I could never make a penny to buy my daily bread
but I'll be a timeless master when I'm dead
There will be dancing in the street when I am gone
my essays will be toilet paper, every word was wrong
Every school child in Creation will be whistlin' all my songs
but relief will be a given when I'm gone, gone, really gone
Kiss my shiny Texas ass, what have you done lately?
Crap on all that blarney 'bout how great souls suffer greatly
I'd much prefer a hookah and a lovely tit or three
but I'm a man and they'd look weird on me!
I should have been an icon, what a slap!
I poured out all my heart and soul, but they said it was crap
They act as if I came up with boy bands and with rap
but I didn't, so what's with all the flap?
They'll say that I was such a sight to see
but my artsy ventures caused 'em all to flee
Why is it that I sucked so bad when I was runnin' free
but I'm better when the worms are eatin' me?
Yes, I'm gonna look good when I'm in the ground
my many varied glories will leap from town to town
My merits went for bupkiss when I was walkin' 'round
but my bones'll sell on ebay by the pound
Oh, I'll be seen as a giant when I'm dead
They'll sell millions of my "units" and t-shirts of my head
I'll be face down in my grave and they'll still ask me to spread
Yes, I'll be a saint the minute I am dead
Don't let it wait 'til after you are dead
Once you've cacked it, very few will give you head
Make a lotta noise, Surround it,
once you're dead you're really grounded
Even saints shut up like hell when they are dead
Oh, I'll become mighty famous when I'm dead
Until then I'm a bastard, that's where my road has led
but I'll become an angel when that bullet hits my head
Yes, I'll be a saint the minute I am dead
You'd better believe it!
I'll become a killer saint when I am dead!
*WHEN* *I* *YAM* ***DED***
--
HellPope Huey
My whole f***ing life is a microtonal polka.
"It should be a little easier...
because in that difference, there's... everything."
- "The West Wing"
"What you have here is black noise."
- "Kingdom Hospital"
Rev. Ivan Stang
I made a DVD interface for the thing and left it rendering overnight,
and when I got up this morning, IT HADN'T CRASHED! Will wonders never
cease! The DVD of the Re-Uncut Cut of "Let's Visit the World of the
Future" is all done! It has the bonus intro film (and a written
explanation page), plus "The Human Animal" (1965) and "Reproduction
Cycle Among Lower Life Forms Under the Rocks of Mars," my 1976
claymation porno educational film. I had to include that because it is
part of the World of the Future "prophecy mythos," what with the War
Against Mars and the Nuclear Beer, which is made from the microscopic
Martian worms shown in the movie. And, with Repro Cycle in there, I had
to also include "Bug Porn" (2004) because it sorta SOUNDS like
"Reproduction Cycle." And there's a hidden mini-film of me and my
friend Blaine Dunlap cutting up while shooting the Intro film.
The SVCD mpeg of WotFusture is also finished! And it WAS larger than
would fit on a CD-R. BUT!! -- I overcame that problem and made a second
version which is in two parts. Part One fits EXACTLY onto a CDR and
ends EXACTLY FIVE SECONDS after the end credits start. So Part 2 is
just the 5 minutes of end credits, which no one has seen in 32 years.
(The text is supered over out-takes. In 1973 that wasn't normal like it
is now.)
I am proud of myself because I HACKED THE BROKEN MPEG-MAKING PROGRAM
(MissingMPEGTools, a free open-source utility) and FIXED it. See, it
had this feature that would supposedly break your final MPEG up into
parts if you needed it to fit onto CDs and it was too long. But it DID
NOT WORK. You could set that thing to break the files at 690 mb and it
would NOT actually do it. It kept secretly sticking to its default of
2000 mb. I got to inspecting its interior code-line that it sends to
the Terminal to tell it what to do, however, and I found the part where
the code said "2000 m" and when I changed that 2000 to 690 and set it
to rendering from there, BY GOBBS IT WORKED!! You have no idea how
pleased this made me. That has been a major cause for ASS-PAIN and now
I have cured my own ass myself just by going to the trouble of prying
it open and LOOKING.
Anyway if anybody wants to buy the Re-Uncut Cut of the World of the
Future DVD, NOW, which I heartily recommend, you can just order, say,
PreDobbs Stangfilms DVD from my Bulldada catalog -- but email me
separately saying you actually want the new Uncut WotF. (HINT -- IF YOU
USE WORDS LIKE PENIS, VALIUM, VIAGRA OR PRESCRIPTION in the title of
your email, I won't ever see the email.)
Or hell just email me your credit card number (broken up over two
emails, for security) and the expiration date and I'll charge you $20
(postpaid! Cheaper than our others because it doesn't have a fancy
LABEL yet! And it's not a full 90 minutes.) and mail you the disk. I
will also need your ADDRESS and real name. Don't worry, lots of people
give me all that info and they're all still alive.
It will be a while before I get ads and packaging together for this
project because I only did it due to a Wild Hare or Hair (my wife was
out of town!), and I really have to finish a shitload of other things
to get back on schedule. Where this "schedule" comes from is beyond me.
I guess Hour of Slack has a schedule. But SubSITE is what I really want
to get crackin' on. I have so much stuff to add that for the first time
I might actually have to REMOVE something old!
HellPopeHuey
> Oh, I'll become mighty famous when I'm dead
Well, get on with it, ya fat, bald bastard! Everybody's tired of
hearing about that imaginary CD and its awful how you pick on poor Mr.
Nenslo. He didn't ASK to have shingles and a 4-foot-long foreskin on a
foot-long penis.
zeno...@yahoo.com
> >
> > Easy Peasy. Simple.Pas de problem. Whatever.
>
> I think he and I are both talking about the kind of painting where you
> spend 20 years learning to draw first and then you make it actually look
> like something. Which nobody does any more.
Man, I've been trying to work on my drawing skills and it's HARD!
Like, something in my brain is incapable of translating light and
shadow... and proportion? Well forget it.
And here's a question: How wide is the grey area between "cartoony"
and "sorta realistic" and how does "stylized" work its way into
things?
Meanwhile, I'm blowing off steam making abstract textured stuff, with
a little collage here and there. But I could never figured out why
they let Jackson Pollock do more than one of those drippy things.
Like, yeah, message received.
I'm starting to think sculpture is where it's at. Fiberglass.
These are serious questions for you Nenslo, and all you other
life-and-death artistes out there.
Yours-
Zeno Izen
Erisian Immortal
nenslo
>
> nenslo <nen...@yahoox.com> wrote in message > tag on you have to scrape it of.
> > >
> > > Easy Peasy. Simple.Pas de problem. Whatever.
> >
> > I think he and I are both talking about the kind of painting where you
> > spend 20 years learning to draw first and then you make it actually look
> > like something. Which nobody does any more.
>
> Man, I've been trying to work on my drawing skills and it's HARD!
> Like, something in my brain is incapable of translating light and
> shadow... and proportion? Well forget it.
Yeah, it's tough going from 3D to 2D. I took a year of olde fashioned
Mechanical Drawing training, with, like pencils and compasses and french
curves, and now I can't NOT do it. Best way is to cheat and draw
directly from things that are already 2D. There's quite a difference
between what you know about an object and how it actually looks, and
that difference will always screw you up.
>
> And here's a question: How wide is the grey area between "cartoony"
> and "sorta realistic" and how does "stylized" work its way into
> things?
You got yourself a question there alright.
>
> Meanwhile, I'm blowing off steam making abstract textured stuff, with
> a little collage here and there. But I could never figured out why
> they let Jackson Pollock do more than one of those drippy things.
> Like, yeah, message received.
When you see them in person they make you say "well I guess I don't know
everything after all." They have MAGIC in them which does not get
reproduced into a mere art book.
>
> I'm starting to think sculpture is where it's at. Fiberglass.
Name a tumor after me!
HellPopeHuey
>>> Name a tumor after me!
Okay, I will call it "Benny."
Well, the "issue," if there IS one worth much debate, since it can
become circular and pointless in .009 seconds, is simply one of
"deciding" how much value a human-heart-guided hand is worth. I used
to paint and sell various things in pencils, india ink, charcoal,
acrylic and I did two murals, so I know how vital that can REALLY be
if you're to milk Photoshop to its best advantage. It enables you to
"put the english on it" in a way that can readily set you apart from
someone who never hefted a brush and FELT their way to the goal. I
admire those who can make a good go of Bryce; I have a CD of
GGGordon's work and its damned impressive, hands down. I simply think
you have a meaningful edge if you started out analog, because that's
what humans ARE. Digital is simply a newer, speedier way to make
analog more vibrant.
I get peppered with links to music software, even GIVEN some from
time to time, but I remain largely unengaged by it, so far. I am not a
Luddite and see great promise in some of it, such as Steinberg's
XPhrazer, which offers an interesting and not unduly fiddly approach
to manipulating sounds, especially since one can import whatever one
likes for the purpose. Nice idea, good design, worth pursuing. Its on
my short list of Music Tools I Would Commit To For A Decade.
Still, I will always physically manipulate a piano/organ keyboard for
95% of the base goods, for the simple reason that a person who is
enchanted with typing values in from a QWERTYUIOP keyboard alone is
taking their HANDS out of the equation. Its like Eric Idle in the old
Python skit asking a gent "Have you ever BEEN with a lady? What's it
like?" There's no answer for that one, noooo, there ain't. Playing (or
having played) SOME kind of instrument physically makes all the
difference when you need a FEEL for your goal while massaging Fruity
Loops or Apple's Garage Band.
Some of what I compose, I stitch together a few measures at a time,
multitracking in a somewhat mechanical fashion; that's the same way
Ravel had to do it in his day... inch by inch. However, I also
continue to write things for just plain Two Hands At Work. Its the
only way to make your bonafides stick and the only way to keep your
mind fluid where it counts if you want good results from any other
method you might take on. Otherwise, sooner or later, you end up
jacking off a column of air.
--
HellPope Huey
I'm anal-expulsive,
I wear an aluminum derby and I VOTE
"When people ask if I do all my own stunts,
I say 'Not on purpose.'"
- Billy Bob Thornton
"You may control my mind,
but you'll never control my ass!"
- "The Oblongs"
scalpod
While there is a lot to be said for crafting things using traditional
tools and techniques, fuck you.
There, I said it.
BTW - I've played bass (by ear) for many years and understand where
you're coming from but as John Cleese said in EVERY Python episode
(sometimes several times) "and now for something completely
different..."
I agree that the real-time feedback loops created by directly
manipulating vibrating and percussive auditory expressive augmentators
are 'cooler', I still like a LOT OF ELECTRONIC MUSIC.
<ahem> DEVO <ahem>
love,
scalpod
HellPopeHuey
> While there is a lot to be said for crafting things using traditional
> tools and techniques, fuck you.
> There, I said it.
Its being said so much these days, its losing its impact. Still, I
would not at all mind seeing it taken on as the opening to most
encounters. "Mr. President, fuck you, ah, how do you think the Fed's
2.2% increase will affect new housing starts in the next quarter?"
"Well Jim, fuck you, I think it will fuck 'em up a little, but it will
have to hit 5% before it can be felt above the 2% level nationally,
fuck you very much."
Besides, a tool or technique becomes a tradition for YOU after it is
applied for X amount of time and becomes second-nature. THEN the "hard
part" starts.
> BTW - I've played bass (by ear) for many years and understand where
> you're coming from but as John Cleese said in EVERY Python episode
> (sometimes several times) "and now for something completely
> different..."
There is almost literally NEVER anything completely different, just
great new hybrids.
> I agree that the real-time feedback loops created by directly
> manipulating vibrating and percussive auditory expressive augmentators
> are 'cooler', I still like a LOT OF ELECTRONIC MUSIC.
No argument there. Remember, I'm an aged fart of 49 who cut his teeth
on Klaus Schule's "Timewinds," which won the 1979 (I think i was )
Grand Disque du Prix in France as CLASSICAL album of the year. Like
any music, it can be good or rotten. It "bugs" me that "synthesizer
music" has come to be seen as lacking because the popular and
erroneous vernacular began to define that as artifical when synthesis
simply means to assemble from numerous components.
> <ahem> DEVO <ahem>
<ahem> Ayuh, use yer freedom o' choice, yup. When DEVO was still
ultra-new and I was as dazzled by 'em as anyone else, I had the great
fortune to see them play in a small venue in Houston. During the
break, Mark was fiddling with something onstage, so I went up to the
edge of the stage and asked him a synth question, which wowed him such
that we ended up in front of his gear for a bit, talking shop. I guess
that was rare, since the eqquipment was still in its relative infancy.
A few years later, I met him again at the very first Devival in Dallas
and he bleepin' remembered me, which was really flattering. Mark is a
class act, a double SubG made who has made VERY good.
Anyway, don't paint with too broad a brush or fuck you. Smell ya
later!
--
HellPope Huey
Don't forget the 'taint.
It needs love like all the other parts do.
"He's a forceps baby, but he means well."
- "The Drew Carey Show"
If I could kick the person in the tail
that causes me the most problems
I could not sit down for a week.
- Will Rogers
scalpod
Ah, I was just bustin' your chops. I love it all really. Even kids
banging on pots and pans (for a while anyway).
While I agree simply cutting and pasting loops and building drum and
bass lines through software alone results in mostly pap, I think it's
just the result of a larger numbers game. More folks have access to
audio software now (legal or otherwise) than there were piano-fortes
and composers 'back in the day'. Public music education is almost
non-existent but more people than ever are taking a stab at it at
anyway.
After all, 'if you want to be a rock and roll star, just get a guitar
and learn how to play.' Too bad more folks don't actually pick up an
actual guitar and actually learn how to actually play, but the message
is stronger than ever. Anyone can and should attempt to make music.
Which has of course resulted in a lot of REALLY BAD MUSIC.
I like the fact that music is so much bigger than any one musician or
singular musical experience. People are exploring and discovering for
themselves features and forms of music that others new about decades or
even thousands of years ago, the new folks just don't have a good map.
My point was that technique, mechanism or even the musician 'creating'
the music shouldn't be confused for the music itself. Like missing all
the heavenly glory looking at end of fing.. ah forget it. I can't stand
parables.
Have you ever heard anything driven/created by natural forces?
Installation sculpture/instruments like the 'High Tide Organ' or the
'Wave Organ' in San Fran? I remember an artist who used to build
complex installations on creeks in the west. They had drum heads and
stings that changed tone over the course of the day as the sun warmed
and relaxed them and hammers and plucking arms driven by paddle-wheel
and wind. Then of course there's ol' Fiorella Tirenzi the
astrophysicist/model who converted radio telescope signals into
music... etc. etc.
scalpod
PS - my favorite artists are folks like XTC, Jellyfish, Supergrass,
Gong, Gentle Giant so I have a deep appreciation of musicianship,
orchestration/arrangement, melody and variety in songwriting. But every
now and then I need to hear John Zorn or Mike Keneally just rip it up
with some serious noise music or even some Art of Noise for that matter.
zeno...@yahoo.com
>
> Still, I will always physically manipulate a piano/organ keyboard for
> 95% of the base goods, for the simple reason that a person who is
> enchanted with typing values in from a QWERTYUIOP keyboard alone is
> taking their HANDS out of the equation. Its like Eric Idle in the old
> Python skit asking a gent "Have you ever BEEN with a lady? What's it
> like?" There's no answer for that one, noooo, there ain't. Playing (or
> having played) SOME kind of instrument physically makes all the
> difference when you need a FEEL for your goal while massaging Fruity
> Loops or Apple's Garage Band.
Well, now that's mushing analog/digital with
representational/abstract, which I think are actually two axes on a
plane, not parallell lines.
HellPopeHuey
> Ah, I was just bustin' your chops. I love it all really. Even kids
> banging on pots and pans (for a while anyway).
Well, ayuh, ah figgered as much, although if those children will not
stop eventually, they must be cooked IN those same pots.
> While I agree simply cutting and pasting loops and building drum and
> bass lines through software alone results in mostly pap, I think it's
> just the result of a larger numbers game. More folks have access to
> audio software now (legal or otherwise) than there were piano-fortes
> and composers 'back in the day'. Public music education is almost
> non-existent but more people than ever are taking a stab at it at
> anyway.
This goes a long way towards explaining why Usher and Nelly have
careers in "music." Oh well, what do you expect from a country that
touts patriotism like mad but exhibits very little statesmanship or
civic responsibility? There's Art and then there's Product and the two
were violently torn apart a long time ago as a unified activity that
could pay some of your bills.
> Have you ever heard anything driven/created by natural forces?
> Installation sculpture/instruments like the 'High Tide Organ' or the
> 'Wave Organ' in San Fran? I remember an artist who used to build
> complex installations on creeks in the west. They had drum heads and
> stings that changed tone over the course of the day as the sun warmed
> and relaxed them and hammers and plucking arms driven by paddle-wheel
> and wind.
There is/was also a "Stalactite organ" at Carlsbad or some damned
where that uses suction cups and mallets to "play" the CAVE. It yields
a unique, quirky, marionette-show-like sound.
I also like wind chimes, but they need to be TUNED or they sound like
car parts being knocked around. When you have perfect or relative
perfect pitch, you just cringe when you hear such things. Same with
half the female pop singers these days. As far as I know, there is no
such note as B-flat and 3/4, outside a Harry Partch pump organ, but I
swear I lost part of a filling when I heard Celine Dion hit it one
time.
> Then of course there's ol' Fiorella Tirenzi the
> astrophysicist/model who converted radio telescope signals into
> music... etc. etc.
Eh, her stuff was too much like the sound of amplified brain waves.
Of course, when you amplify purple's, you just get background hiss and
no signal.
> PS - my favorite artists are folks like XTC, Jellyfish, Supergrass,
> Gong, Gentle Giant so I have a deep appreciation of musicianship,
> orchestration/arrangement, melody and variety in songwriting. But every
> now and then I need to hear John Zorn or Mike Keneally just rip it up
> with some serious noise music or even some Art of Noise for that matter.
I can live without Supergrass personally, but the rest are worthy
listens, even though old Gong albums have HAIR on 'em now:P.
Check these out:
Trey Gunn, "The Third Star"
Paul Haslinger, "World Without Rules"
Bozzio/Levin/Stevens, "Black Light Syndrome"
Most anything by Planet X with Derek Sherinian
These all have VAGUELY "prog rock" overtones, but the way it SHOULD
be done: melodically, powerfully and without the BS pretension of big
hair, gargoyles and falsettos.
--
HellPope Huey
I'll sweat a LOT for a fat girl, nyuk nyuk nyuk
A computer lets you make more mistakes
faster than any invention in human history,
with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila.
- Mitch Ratcliffe
"We're wasting more energy
than Ricky Martin's girlfriend."
- Groundskeeper Willie
Revi Shankar
> I also like wind chimes, but they need to be TUNED or they sound like
> car parts being knocked around.
I knew this thread would suck me in eventually.
I have a "recipie" here for a set of tuned wind chimes. There are five
tubes. Uses 3/4" copper pipe. I made a few sets of these, and think I have
it down. Cut the pipes to rough length and then used a wheel grinder to fine
tune them. I was able to get them within 3 cents of tuning with each other.
(pretty damn close) Sounds very nice. (CMaj, b7th)
Google for 'aeolian harp' for links to air-driven stringed instruments.
There is a work site that I visit on occasion. There is a radio tower there
about 175 feet high, full of Yagis. The sound they make when the wind blows
through them is ethereal and really enjoyable to hear. I just learned that I
can make decent recordings with the i-river. It even has optical inputs. If
I can get a decent battery-operated phantom supply, I'll be able to make
some fairly good recordings of that tower. Maybe I'll get one of dem tiny
Beringer mixers and use an inverter off the car lighter. Yeah.
The use of air to make pleasant and entertaining noises has always
fascinated me. I have been hoping to find some way to use existing pipe
organ technology (which I happen to have at hand, fortunately) to create
some kind of unusual way to make noise. Not being an extremely visionary
person, I haven't gotten very far. So I am open to suggestions or
inspiration.
Well, Ok, here's one project I toyed around with a while ago. I want to get
an old piano harp, with strings. Direct small vinyl tubes to each string.
Have a valve control lightly compressed air to each tube. Opening a valve
will cause air to stream across one string. By connecting one valve to each
key on a keyboard, one could "play" an air harp. I even devised a method of
stopping each string when the valve is closed. Only serious problem is that
I'd have to have an electric pickup for each string. I have experimented
with making my own pickups using clear plastic sewing machine bobbins (the
sewing machine winds coils very fast!) and inserting a small magnet in the
center of the coil. It works! If I had the space to put up and work on a
piano harp, I'd probably make some more progress.
Rev. 11D Ricardo MadGello
Sand Point.
Seattle.
NOAA.
Reagan paid for them.
"Revi Shankar" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:xY2dnYoErtk...@adelphia.com...