Lyrics to Boots and Braces
DCBootboy
Discipline. It says on the back of my USA of Oi! album that you can send in
for lyrics. It's too late now, but if anyone here knows anyone who did get
the lyrics, I'd like to see them. Thanks.
Oi!
P.S. I know that Skrewdriver did a cover of this song, but I don't listen
to RAC (except Combat 84 who don't really count), and I suspect they
might've changed the lyrics. The song has 14 bars of the first verse, and
16 bars in the second verse - if I remember correctly. Anyway, that's
more than enough room to add some racist shit, so if anyone has the
Skrewdriver lyrics, and they are indeed different, I don't want them.
DCBootboy
news:388121F6...@ihug.co.nz...
> Skrewdriver, did the original,
I hope that you're not right. Even if you are, Immoral Discipline is an
anti-racist band, so they shouldn't have racist lyrics. And, no offence,
but I think the idea of "United Skins" is full of shit.
>check out, " United Skins" compilation, i think
> that was the first release!
Even if it was, I want the Immoral Discipline lyrics. That's the only
version I have. Thanks.
Oi!
DCBootboy
"BRUCE HILL" <blh...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
news:388121F6...@ihug.co.nz...
> Skrewdriver, did the original,
copyright holders? It's on Link, which is English, so I assume that they
wouldn't want to provoke a copyright infringment lawsuit from Skrewdriver.
Maybe I'm off base here, and English copyright laws are different from
American laws, but here you would catch a lot of shit for an unliscensed
cover of a concurrent band.
Oi!
Upsetter
skrewdriver song more. Boots and Braces is from the album of the same title.
This was, I believe, their first full length release and did not have
racists lyrics to any of their songs. Straight forward Oi! with goods hooks
and good lyrics.
--
the Upsetter http://www.geocities.com/upsetter.geo/crucified.html
"Hum a few bars and I'll smash your face in."
Suggs McPherson (was a roadie for Skrewdriver)
"DCBootboy" <DCBo...@email.com> wrote in message
news:85qv1h$2v2i$1...@mercury.vcu.edu...
thetoolsofwar
Upsetter <upse...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:85r59u$2ed$1...@nntp3.atl.mindspring.net...
> they are seperate songs with the same title. Honestly, I like the
> skrewdriver song more. Boots and Braces is from the album of the same
title.
> This was, I believe, their first full length release and did not have
> racists lyrics to any of their songs. Straight forward Oi! with goods
hooks
> and good lyrics.
I used to have both albums and Upsetter is absolutely right. Skrewdriver
wrote "Boots and Braces" and it was out first--wasn't the Immoral Discipline
song called "Boots'n'Braces, Stars'n'Stripes"? I've still got a copy of US
of Oi!, but it's on a blank tape and I lost the insert w/track listings
years ago.
--at rest
DCBootboy
news:85r8n5$faq$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net
>wasn't the Immoral Discipline
> song called "Boots'n'Braces, Stars'n'Stripes"
Skrewdriver wouldn't be too crazy about Stars 'N Stripes, but I honestly
thought that they covered it. Oops. I've heard one Skrewdriver song that I
liked for years before someone told me it was by Skrewdriver. It's about
skinheads, and the chorus is "Back with a Bang, Now." I don't remember
what the title is. Anyway, otherwise, I steadfastly refuse to listen to
RAC. I know that the first album or two were supposed to be not (overtly)
racist, but I don't want to hear it anyway.>This did not have racists lyrics to any of their songs.
>Straight forward Oi! with goods hooks and good lyrics.
a racist band, (or were, before that tree got even with Ian) and I just
don't want to support them at all. I still feel pretty objectionable about
people listening to anything remotely racist, but I realise that this is
now a fairly radical view, and I don't want to hear any shit about it.
"thetoolsofwar" <thetoo...@SPAMLESSvisto.com> wrote in message
news:85r8n5$faq$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net
>Skrewdriver wrote "Boots and Braces" and it was out >first--
helps to confuse the meaning of YDL's "Skinheads '88). Skrewdriver was
probably before that. They did form after Menace broke up, right? Anyway,
I don't want to get into a long discussion about Skrewdriver. I don't like
them! (except that one song, which might be hypocritical, but I will
never buy that album). If you guys are ok listening to them, and you're
not humming along to "White Power for Britian" (incidentally, how the fuck
does this have any relevance to American racists?), then I guess that's
your position. If you ask me, the stuff's too damn catchy, and I for one
do not want that racist crap running through my head.
But if anyone here has, or can make out the lyrics to Immoral
Discipline's song, that's what I'm after.
Oi!
dra...@mpinet.net
But, if you're not gonna listen to early skrewdriver, you might as
well not listen to early british oi!, since most of it was influenced by
skrewdriver, who was basically a rock band... and they have some good
songs... whenever they reformed to do racist shit they got a different
line up, it's not the same band...
You'd be surprised by the amount of bands that cover/modify old rac
songs that you may not even notice...
A lot of old rac is far from racist shit, just dont start listening to
no remorse
BRUCE HILL
that was the first release!
DCBootboy wrote:
> I'm still looking for the lyrics to "Boots and Braces" by Immoral
> Discipline. It says on the back of my USA of Oi! album that you can send in
> for lyrics. It's too late now, but if anyone here knows anyone who did get
> the lyrics, I'd like to see them. Thanks.
>
> Oi!
>
thetoolsofwar
> I've heard one Skrewdriver song that I
> liked for years before someone told me it was by Skrewdriver. It's about
> skinheads, and the chorus is "Back with a Bang, Now." I don't remember
> what the title is.
"Back With A Bang" is the title, it's off the Boots And Braces album.
Trivia note: the music is the same pattern and timing as "Dance Hall Days"
by Wang Chun, not that anyone needed to know that...I just think it's funny.
Just like the similarity between Skrewdriver's "White Power" guitar riff and
Neil Young's "Keep On Rockin' In the Free World." Oh--I don't actually own
any Wang Chun or Neil Young, I just remember the songs from the radio and
MTV. Go ahead and make fun of me anyway, I know somebody will.
--at rest
The Spoiler
The Spoiler
Regina Winter
>Oh--I don't actually own
>any Wang Chun or Neil Young, I just remember the songs from the radio and
>MTV. Go ahead and make fun of me anyway, I know somebody will.
Worse. Yes you simply couldn't escape that stuff back in these days, but
really, did you have to bring it up? I had managed well to forget it, and now
I've got an endless "dance hall in the free world tape" in my head, at 9am on a
sunday morning, and it's all your fault.
Regina
"And it's a promise, and it's a threat, and it's not something that I'll let
you forget"
(Rites of Spring)
J A Dare
>
>
>DCBootboy <DCBo...@email.com> wrote in message
>news:85rdcg$4p8q$1...@mercury.vcu.edu...
>> I've heard one Skrewdriver song that I
>> liked for years before someone told me it was by Skrewdriver. It's about
>> skinheads, and the chorus is "Back with a Bang, Now." I don't remember
>> what the title is.
Besides what they became, it's a damn good song...
--------- Lyrics to "Back With a Bang" -------------
Back with a Bang, now!
Do you remember in the summer
Back in nineteen seventy-eight
When they reckoned that the skinhead days were numbered
And the papers dripped with liquid hate
Be patriotic, stop the fascists, so they said
Defy your country, fight the Crown
Society tried its' best to kill you
But the spirit lives until the end of time
Chorus:
Back with a bang, now
Back with the gang, now
Back with a bang, now
Back with the gang, now, 2...3...4...
Reckoned every skinhead was a bad man
Just to make an honest family sick
And they filled the papers with this rubbish every day
Never missed a dirty little trick
(Chorus 2x)
And still today they keep on lying
Four years on and they still won't learn
But the skinhead way of life is getting stronger every day
And we are never going to turn
(Chorus 2x)
--------------End Lyrics ----------------------
>
>"Back With A Bang" is the title, it's off the Boots And Braces album.
>Trivia note: the music is the same pattern and timing as "Dance Hall Days"
>by Wang Chun, not that anyone needed to know that...I just think it's funny.
>Just like the similarity between Skrewdriver's "White Power" guitar riff and
>Neil Young's "Keep On Rockin' In the Free World." Oh--I don't actually own
>any Wang Chun or Neil Young,
I bet they're right by your Poison, Ratt, Whitesnake, etc collection...
>I just remember the songs from the radio and
>MTV. Go ahead and make fun of me anyway, I know somebody will.
Who me?
--
Aude et Effice!
********************************************************
"We will wear red and black. Red to recall the devil,
black to invoke fear." -Herbert Kilpin
********************************************************
subzero
Użytkownik Upsetter <upse...@usa.net> w wiadomości do grup dyskusyjnych
napisał:85r59u$2ed$1...@nntp3.atl.mindspring.net...
> they are seperate songs with the same title. Honestly, I like the
> skrewdriver song more. Boots and Braces is from the album of the same
title.
> racists lyrics to any of their songs. Straight forward Oi! with goods
hooks
> and good lyrics.
"All skrewed up" Chiswick Records 1977 and its 100% non political '77 punk
rock.And "Boots &Braces" wasn't full lenght album-it was a 7 songs mini LP.
Subzero
DCBootboy
<dra...@mpinet.net> wrote in message news:388145...@mpinet.net...
> if you're not gonna listen to early skrewdriver, you might as
> well not listen to early british oi!, since most of it was influenced by
> skrewdriver,
or Gary Bushell influenced the early Oi!, maybe even bands like Menace or
the Cockney Rejects (who were a Pursey project, I think). But RAC as I
understand it - Rock against Communism - only started after Rock against
Racism (at which Infa Riot were the only Oi! band I know of that played),
which was well after Oi! had gotten it's NME push. You might be right about
those bands being around. I'm sure that at least in London there were some
pretty small circles, and lots of these musicians (and skins) probably
ran into each other. I understand (as well as an American can) that skins
rallied around their local football teams (like West Ham), so they might
have all seen each there. Still, I don't think that there's a good
argument that there was a MUSICAL influence by these bands. You're talking
about at best second wave Oi! or third wave punk, which was heavilly
influenced by so many other bands (and hostility to the emerging new wave
or pop punk) that it's really hard to make a blanket generalization about
influence.
> whenever they reformed to do racist shit they got a different
> line up, it's not the same band...
I didn't know that. Still, it's the same band to me. Just like Black Flag
went through four singers. I love the early stuff, with Chavo and Keith
Morris (of the Circle Jerks), but I can't stand most of the Henry
(Garfield) Rollins stuff. But I can't say that just because the band only
retained Greg Ginn by the time all was said and done, that it was
signifigantly different. There was more of a gradual change. This is how I
see Skrewdriver, at least. There were a lot of right wing bands then.
There still are a lot of right wing Oi! bands. In and of itself there's
nothing wrong with this, but I think that Skrewdriver was influenced by the
BNP or NF or whoever to be more explicitly racist. This is why I don't
listen to them. They're basically a tool of the organized racists. (and
despite what many of you might think, they are very organized. From the NF
to the klans to the Christian identity movement, they've been making
alliances for the past ten or fifteen years. Just because most boneheads
are clueless doesn't mean that the people that are telling them what to
think are.)
> You'd be surprised by the amount of bands that cover/modify old rac
> songs that you may not even notice...
If you mean anything other than Warzone's cover of King of the Jungle, I
probably would. Still, I'm not crusading against all right wing Oi! I
like some right wing Oi! Not all the lets beat up fags and imigrants stuff,
but I can't disagree with The Right to Choose. Anyway, I don't even know
how many Oi! bands at the time supported the whole RAC movement. I think
that you're right that it didn't start out racist. I don't know. That's
the beautifull thing about Oi!, it's universal - it's not weighed down
with political rhetoric.
> A lot of old rac is far from racist shit
Then I don't have a problem with it, except, as I mentioned, for bands
that latter became racist. This may sound dumb to some of you, but I
think, having been in several bands, that if you're supporting a band in
any way that you're supporting it throughout it's career. It's not like you
can sell off your old records and pretend that the new stuff isn't out.
(Although some bands like the Business do an admirable job trying.) It's
all part of the same package. Anyway, I don't even know what bands went
racist. I have no problem with Roi singing for the 4Skins, even though he
was rumoured to have been NF, because they never sang about it. (In fact,
I like to think of the combo cd as The Good, the Bad, and A Fistfull of
4Skins. Panther just wasn't at his best on the live stuff there.)
If you really want to get into a discussion about early Oi! influences,
I'm not the person to talk to. There are several English skins in this
group, who probably have a much better grasp on this than I do. I can't
even make out most of the words still.
Oi!
Upsetter
length. I thought it was an e.p.
--
the Upsetter http://www.geocities.com/upsetter.geo/crucified.html
"Hum a few bars and I'll smash your face in."
Suggs McPherson
"subzero" <sub...@polbox.com> wrote in message
news:3Uog4.29747$X3.5...@news.tpnet.pl...
DCBootboy
Discipline?
Oi!
Marcus
>BNP or NF or whoever to be more explicitly racist.
Ian stuart was a member of the NF, but the BNP is much more racist(Brittish
movement is just short for Brittish National Socialist Movement).>If you mean
anything other than Warzone's cover of King of the Jungle, I
>probably would. Still, I'm not crusading against all right wing Oi! I
>like some right wing Oi! Not all the lets beat up fags and imigrants stuff,
>but I can't disagree with The Right to Choose. Anyway, I don't even know
>how many Oi! bands at the time supported the whole RAC movement. I think
>that you're right that it didn't start out racist. I don't know. That's
>the beautifull thing about Oi!, it's universal - it's not weighed down
>with political rhetoric.
Well since when was Kings of the Jungle a RAC song????(I'm assuming you're
talking about the last resort). Combat 84 had a racist member, but I wouldn't
say that they were a RAC band per say. And even though there album came out
on Rock a Roma, I think they had nothing to do with it, as their
company(victory) liscenced it to Rock A Roma after teh band broke up. By that
you could say the Templars are RAC because they have stuff out on Pure Impact
in Spain/
> I have no problem with Roi singing for the 4Skins, even though he
>was rumoured to have been NF, because they never sang about it.
I am pretty sure he wasn't in it. And If you have problem with the Four Skins
how about their manager being a member of the Brittish Movement or their later
Guitarist(Steve Pearce) joining Skrewdriver.
Marcus
Pounding the Pavement
Soul-Ska-Reggae
http://www.zyworld.com/ptpzine
If you don't like it you don't have to dance-Jerry Dammers
Marcus
>I knew that All skrewed up came out first, I just wasn't sure it was full
>length. I thought it was an e.p.
>
All Skrewed Up was a Full legnth and Boots andBraces was an EP(I'm not sure if
that's what you're saying)
DCBootboy
"Marcus " <ptp...@aol.communazi> wrote in message
news:20000116180640...@ng-dh1.aol.com...
> Well since when was Kings of the Jungle a RAC song????(I'm assuming you're
> talking about the last resort). Combat 84 had a racist member, but I
wouldn't
> say that they were a RAC band per say.
literally. Either Combat 84 or Last Resort (or both, I can't remember)
actually played some of the RAC shows. I had always assumed that RAC was an
epithet that, to paraphrase Claude from Decline of Western Civilization
(II), "was the polite thing to say when you meant that you" listened to
racist music. But I also thought that the epithet was originally taken from
the RAC benefits, which weren't explicitly racist. (Right?) So the term
is kind of ambiguous to me. Anyway, that's my understanding. Maybe it's
off base.
I'm not talking about Chubby Chris. He was probably a card carrying
racist, I don't know. They didn't sing about it. I've even heard that
there was some member of Combat 84 who was openly antiracist. I don't know
if this is accurate, but I heard that this member later joined the
Exploited (who did walk the line. It seems that boneheads have been
listening to them before Made in London) or the Subs or something.
> > I have no problem with Roi singing for the 4Skins, even though he
> >was rumoured to have been NF, because they never sang about it.
> I am pretty sure he wasn't in it.
Even if Roi wasn't officially a member of the NF or BNP, he's pretty
damn right of center. (Although I'm not sure if he still is. Has anyone
here seen him in Oi! the Video 2?)
>And If you have problem with the Four Skins
> how about their manager being a member of the Brittish Movement or their
later
> Guitarist(Steve Pearce) joining Skrewdriver
I didn't know that, but I don't really care. Their manager? Do you mean
Gary Hitchcock? I'm also not sure who Steve Pearce is. This may be a dumb
question, but is he Roi's brother or something?
>By that
> you could say the Templars are RAC because they have stuff out on Pure
Impact
> in Spain/
Again, I'm not familiar with this. If Pure Impact is like the Spanish
equivalent of RAHOWA's label (I can't remeber the name.), then, yes, I
would make a guilt by association argument. If it's a little more
complicated, like Link, then, no, I couldn't say that.
Anyway, I was assuming that the RAC songs being covered/modified were
the of the broader category of RAC, and not specifically racist songs. It
would not suprise me to know that current racist bands are covering old
racist material, but I didn't think that's what was meant.
I'm actually listening to Last Resort this very second (Eight pound a
week - on the Lords of Oi!, a nice 3 cd Oi! comp.). Like I've said, I'm
not crusading against right wing Oi! But maybe I'm not using the term RAC
appropriately. If that's the case, then please tell me so. I do think
that there's a signifigant difference between right wing and racist Oi!
Oi!
DCBootboy
"Alan Guest" <al...@macropolis.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:200001170...@modem-114.zinc.dialup.pol.co.uk...
> I disagree about Combat 84. They were most definitely in the pocket of
> the NF/BM. You couldn't buy their records in Virgin or HMV in those days
> - you could only buy them through the NF or BM just like the Skrewdriver
> stuff.
Thanks for the info, but what exactly do you disagree with? Are you
sugesting that Combat 84 were an openly racist band, or just that they were
in the same camp as the NF/BM?
Oh yeah, couldn't you just buy records at stands in Picadilly Circus or
something, or am I taking that out of context?
Oi!
Alan Guest
> I knew that All skrewed up came out first, I just wasn't sure it was full
> length. I thought it was an e.p.
>
All Skrewed Up is a good album and it has very much a Who/Stones
influence. They covered 19th Nervous Breakdown and Won't Get Fooled
Again that has a funny line about the hair all growing shorter over
night. There's a song called 'I don't like you' on it that I used to
like.
--
Alan
al...@macropolis.freeserve.co.uk
Skinhead Heaven - the world would never be the same again
http://www.macropolis.freeserve.co.uk
Alan Guest
I disagree about Combat 84. They were most definitely in the pocket of
the NF/BM. You couldn't buy their records in Virgin or HMV in those days
- you could only buy them through the NF or BM just like the Skrewdriver
stuff.
--
subzero
Użytkownik Marcus <ptp...@aol.communazi> w wiadomości do grup dyskusyjnych
napisał:20000116180640...@ng-dh1.aol.com...
> you could say the Templars are RAC because they have stuff out on Pure
Impact
> in Spain/
PI????
>
> > I have no problem with Roi singing for the 4Skins, even though he
> >was rumoured to have been NF, because they never sang about it.
>
Skins
> how about their manager being a member of the Brittish Movement or their
later
Paul Swain from 4Skins played later in Skrewdriver aswell (on Blood and
Honour album).What you can say about greetings/thank yous on Indecent
Exposure(80's excellent Brit Oi! band album :for Mark
Sutherland(Skrewdriver) and Roddy Moreno(Opressed) written in the the same
line????Or Klasse Kriminale playing together with Battle Zone????
Well ...times were different!!!!
Subzero
Marcus
>Thanks for the info, but what exactly do you disagree with? Are you
>sugesting that Combat 84 were an openly racist band, or just that they were
>in the same camp as the NF/BM?
The band was definitely right wing in their lyrics(Right to Choose, Rapist
etc.), and Chris Henderson(lead singer) was openly racist, but he was the only
racist in the band. I'm getting this frmo the sleeve to the Death or Glory
LP, so it may be wrong
Marcus
>> talking about the last resort). Combat 84 had a racist member, but I
>wouldn't
>> say that they were a RAC band per say.
>I'm sorry, I guess I should clarify that. I'm taking the RAC epithet very
>literally. Either Combat 84 or Last Resort (or both, I can't remember)
>actually played some of the RAC shows. I had always assumed that RAC was an
>epithet that, to paraphrase Claude from Decline of Western Civilization
>(II), "was the polite thing to say when you meant that you" listened to
>racist music. But I also thought that the epithet was originally taken from
>the RAC benefits, which weren't explicitly racist. (Right?)
Wrong. RAC wasn't just anti communist stuff. It was started by the NF as
something to oppose the very successful Rock against Racism shows. However, I
think that most of the bands who played were racist, and that if a band wasn't
racist and played at a Rock against Communism show, if they got labeled racist,
well they were asking for it.
Now, I think it's just a broad term for any racist music be it punk or metal.
So the term
>is kind of ambiguous to me. Anyway, that's my understanding. Maybe it's
>off base.
> I'm not talking about Chubby Chris. He was probably a card carrying
>racist, I don't know. They didn't sing about it. I've even heard that
>there was some member of Combat 84 who was openly antiracist. I don't know
>if this is accurate, but I heard that this member later joined the
>Exploited (who did walk the line. It seems that boneheads have been
>listening to them before Made in London) or the Subs or something.
Two of them either joined or became roadies for the UK subs. I think that if
they were truely anti racist then they wouldn't be in a band with a racist.
I'd say the correct wording would be they were against racism(just a small
matter of diction)
>
>> > I have no problem with Roi singing for the 4Skins, even though he
>> >was rumoured to have been NF, because they never sang about it.
>> I am pretty sure he wasn't in it.
> Even if Roi wasn't officially a member of the NF or BNP, he's pretty
>damn right of center. (Although I'm not sure if he still is. Has anyone
>here seen him in Oi! the Video 2?)
No, what did he say. I mean, I'm probably "right of center" in a lot of
issues, but I'm by no means a racist or nationalist(well in the true definition
I am, but not in what it has come to mean)
>>And If you have problem with the Four Skins
>> how about their manager being a member of the Brittish Movement or their
>later
>> Guitarist(Steve Pearce) joining Skrewdriver
>I didn't know that, but I don't really care. Their manager? Do you mean
>Gary Hitchcock?
Yes
I'm also not sure who Steve Pearce is. This may be a dumb
>question, but is he Roi's brother or something?
Stever Pearce was the guitarist in the final line up with Roi on Vocals. He
joined skrewdriver after the band broke up
I don't know if he's , but I doubt it
>>By that
>> you could say the Templars are RAC because they have stuff out on Pure
>Impact
>> in Spain/
>Again, I'm not familiar with this. If Pure Impact is like the Spanish
>equivalent of RAHOWA's label (I can't remeber the name.), then, yes, I
>would make a guilt by association argument. If it's a little more
>complicated, like Link, then, no, I couldn't say that.
I don't know what Rahowa's label is, but Pure Impact is a racist label, which
released some templars stuff(a band with black members). I don't know the
details, and it may be because of Vulture rock, not the band. With Combat 84,
it was that their label liscenced the LP to Rock A Roma, so it wasn't their
choice(again, I'm getting this from the notes from Death or Glory, So I'm not
positive)
> Anyway, I was assuming that the RAC songs being covered/modified were
>the of the broader category of RAC, and not specifically racist songs. It
>would not suprise me to know that current racist bands are covering old
>racist material, but I didn't think that's what was meant.
> I'm actually listening to Last Resort this very second (Eight pound a
>week - on the Lords of Oi!, a nice 3 cd Oi! comp.). Like I've said, I'm
>not crusading against right wing Oi! But maybe I'm not using the term RAC
>appropriately. If that's the case, then please tell me so. I do think
>that there's a signifigant difference between right wing and racist Oi!
i think the connotation of RAC is beyond just any anti communist band, and
more racist punk, or nowadays metal and hardcore too. So classifying bands
like The Last Resort RAC, I think would be unfair.
thetoolsofwar
J A Dare <jad...@SPAMBUSTER.javanet.com> wrote in message
news:85t2v7$2ld$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
> >
> I bet they're right by your Poison, Ratt, Whitesnake, etc collection...
I got out of metal too early for that--I did have some Motley Crue (first
couple albums) when I was 12-13, though. A good friend's brother was
totally into glam metal when I was in high school, it was pretty funny when
he hung out w/us 'cause you'd get about 5 or 6 skins, a bunch of Slayer
metalheads, maybe some punks, and one guy with feathered hair and a
Guns'N'Roses shirt...
--at rest
thetoolsofwar
Regina Winter <rwint...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000116084617...@ng-dh1.aol.com...
> > Worse. Yes you simply couldn't escape that stuff back in these days, but
> really, did you have to bring it up? I had managed well to forget it, and
now
> I've got an endless "dance hall in the free world tape" in my head, at 9am
on a
> sunday morning, and it's all your fault.
LOL...sorry, misery loves company. Ever since I learned those riffs I can't
hear one of those songs without thinking of the others, it's too ironic.
--at rest
BRUCE HILL
braces/voice of britain", is a later re-release, the front cover image on
b.a.b, is the back cover on"united skins". "Voice of britain" was released on
the "white power" single, or the other way round.
Bruce..... ( not an authority on Skrewdriver!)
Upsetter wrote:
> I knew that All skrewed up came out first, I just wasn't sure it was full
> length. I thought it was an e.p.
>
> --
> the Upsetter http://www.geocities.com/upsetter.geo/crucified.html
>
> "Hum a few bars and I'll smash your face in."
>
> Suggs McPherson
> "subzero" <sub...@polbox.com> wrote in message
> news:3Uog4.29747$X3.5...@news.tpnet.pl...
> >
> > Użytkownik Upsetter <upse...@usa.net> w wiadomości do grup dyskusyjnych
> > napisa3:85r59u$2ed$1...@nntp3.atl.mindspring.net...
subzero
LP.Boots and Braces and Voice of Britain mini lps were re -release on cd
format (without song song "When the bots come in" taken off Voice of Britain
mini-LP due the illegal in Germany (cd was relrased by german ROR label)
lyrics)
Subzero
Użytkownik BRUCE HILL <blh...@ihug.co.nz> w wiadomooci do grup dyskusyjnych
napisał:3882D12E...@ihug.co.nz...
subzero
Użytkownik Marcus <ptp...@aol.communazi> w wiadomości do grup dyskusyjnych
napisał:20000116235015...@ng-ft1.aol.com...> I don't know what
Rahowa's label is, but Pure Impact is a racist label, which
> released some templars stuff(a band with black members). I don't know the
> details, and it may be because of Vulture rock, not the band.
Cry,Headcase,Retaliator ....Racist????Huh..Yeah thats true that PI has some
RAC cd's in their mail order list ,but as a label they never did any
WP/Racist stuff.
Subzero
thetoolsofwar
OK, for the record, I had "Boots'N'Braces" on Rock-O-Rama, it had 8 songs:
Back With A Bang, I Don't Like You, Anti-Social, Built Up Knocked Down,
Boots and Braces, and I can't remember the other 3 titles. It was eight
songs, but still shorter than most full-length LP's in playing time.
I had "Voice of Britain" on White Power Records (wasn't that Stuart's own
label? so I've been told) and it was definitely full length. Song titles
I can remember: White Power, Smash the IRA, Shove the Dove, Voice of
Britain, On the Boat, Sick Society...I forget the rest. Something about
English Rose? Boys In Blue?
Huge contrast in lyrical content b/t the two albums, obviously. I forget
the release/copyright dates, but I remember that my copies made it seem like
Voice was released first--was the Rock-O-Rama a re-release, maybe?
--at rest
DCBootboy
"Marcus " <ptp...@aol.communazi> wrote in message
>Chris Henderson(lead singer) was openly racist, but he was the only
> racist in the band. I'm getting this frmo the sleeve to the Death or
Glory
> LP, so it may be wrong
it or the vinyl (which a friend has, not I) says essentially the same
thing. I think I've also heard that from some George Marshall stuff. I
just didn't know how accurate that was. There are a lot of American bands
with racist members (like Guns and Roses), but that doesn't make them
racist bands. Anyway, I really didn't know if they just downplayed Chubby
Chris's involvement in the NF/BM or what. But I have heard that he was the
only racist member.
"Marcus " <ptp...@aol.communazi> wrote in message
news:20000116235015...@ng-ft1.aol.com...
>Two of them either joined or became roadies for the UK subs. I think that
if
they were truely anti racist then they wouldn't be in a band with a racist.
I'd say the correct wording would be they were against racism(just a small
matter of diction)
You're right about that. That's not a terribly antiracist stance. I'm
not too sure about Charlie Harper, but I think that they were (the Subs,
if not the Urban Dogs, etc) pretty clearly not racist. I guess I was just
arguing for innocence by association. That is kinda simplistic.
>RAC wasn't just anti communist stuff. It was started by the NF as
something to oppose the very successful Rock against Racism shows.
However, I
think that most of the bands who played were racist, and that if a band
wasn't
racist and played at a Rock against Communism show, if they got labeled
racist,
well they were asking for it.
Now, I think it's just a broad term for any racist music be it punk or
metal.
Ok, that's what my first reaction was. I questioned this, though,
because I've heard of so many anti-racist skins listening to it. Like I've
said above, I have a real big problem with listening to racist shit. I
just don't want that stuff floating around in my head, and its hard for me
to see that other anti-racist skins would want to be humming along to it.
Now, that argument doesn't necessarily extend to simply nonracist skins. I
can't say that by listening to Skrewdriver that you instantly become racist,
but it does cast some doubt on the sincerity of this nonracism. (I do know
a black Skin, Ini, who loves Skrewdriver, and who's favorite movie is
Romper Stomper, and not for the good reason that some of the boneheads die.
But I also have heard of minorities that hung out with nazis. In DC there
are a few people, who should remain nameless, that are just really
confused. (That whole "I'm inferior" thing.))
Anyway, I just wanted to think the best of people, but you see where
that's gotten me. I did gather that it was organized in protest to Rock
against Racism, but I thought that this was for some more legitimate
anti-red sentiments. This isn't the place to get into it, but despite
bands like Angelic, Atilla the Stockbroker, or the RedSkins, I don't
think there's a hell of a lot of sympathy for socialism/communism in the
skinhead scene. (The Buisness's Choosen Few.) It doesn't seem that odd to
me that a bunch of right wing skins would be opposed to some openly
socialist/communist demonstrations. (Not that that's how I see RAR, but
I'm sure it looked that way to a lot of skins. Sham didn't even play that,
Right? I know the Clash (who, despite Career Opurtunities were not
remotely Oi!) and Infa Riot played, but there weren't any other Oi! bands
were there? I didn't even think that Madness played.) Even if the reports
of the communist/socialist involvement have been exaggerated, there still
had to be some. Ipso facto, it's (at least partly) communist.
This seemed to be the crux of the argument, at least. Granted, there
are some flaws in it, but I had just assumed that it was a sublte racist
ploy to disguise intolerance with nationalism.
[I said]
> Even if Roi wasn't officially a member of the NF or BNP, he's pretty
>damn right of center. (Although I'm not sure if he still is. Has anyone
>here seen him in Oi! the Video 2?)
[You said]
>No, what did he say. I mean, I'm probably "right of center" in a lot of
issues, but I'm by no means a racist or nationalist(well in the true
definition
I am, but not in what it has come to mean)
He didn't say anything really. It was essentially the same as the cockney
rejects ("I wear timberlands now, cause they're cheap!"), Red Alert,
Cocksparrer, etc. (although not the Business, I'll hand them that) kind
of interview. He was nostalgic, and he talked about the scene and stuff.
The exception with Roi was that he looked like a fat old biker (or more
like the current Robert Smith) with hair down to his ass. He was also
talking in a pretty affected way. My friend tried to tell me that he turned
into a leatherfag, but that seems like quite a transition. I have heard of
gay nazis (I'm not saying that Roi was a nazi, but he was pretty openly
against gays), but I don't believe in them. Like santa.
As far as your political beliefs, I'm sure that you're reconciled with
them, and I'm not suggesting by any means that right wing=racist. Granted,
I don't think that there are many left wing racists, but its not the same
thing. There's nothing wrong with being patriotic. In England, I can even
understand some of the anti-imigrant stuff (I don't support it, mind you)
but in America it's asinine. There might be some pakis here, but if it
weren't for imigration most of us would be tending the fields somewhere in
western europe. (Not me, I'm a mediteranean American, but it's
essentially the same.) Anyway, "right of center" can be pretty vague.
I'm pretty disgusted by centrists in America, and I'm not too fond of the
left or the right, but I'm not terribly political really. So I may not be
completely aware of what's considered right wing.
>> i think the connotation of RAC is beyond just any anti communist band,
and
more racist punk, or nowadays metal and hardcore too. So classifying bands
like The Last Resort RAC, I think would be unfair.
Ok. Fair enough. But if RAC really just means Skrewdriver, Rahowa,
Brutal Attack, etc. that makes me lose a lot of respect for some people.
But thanks for the clarification.
Oi!
subzero
Użytkownik thetoolsofwar <thetoo...@SPAMLESSvisto.com> w wiadomości do
grup dyskusyjnych napisał:85uadg$rll$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net...
> Memories...
> OK, for the record, I had "Boots'N'Braces" on Rock-O-Rama, it had 8 songs:
> Back With A Bang, I Don't Like You, Anti-Social, Built Up Knocked Down,
> Boots and Braces, and I can't remember the other 3 titles. It was eight
> songs, but still shorter than most full-length LP's in playing time.
the wall
> I had "Voice of Britain" on White Power Records (wasn't that Stuart's own
> label? so I've been told) and it was definitely full length.
Klan)
Song titles
> I can remember: White Power, Smash the IRA, Shove the Dove, Voice of
> Britain, On the Boat, Sick Society...I forget the rest. Something about
> English Rose? Boys In Blue?
thetoolsofwar
have their RAC t-shirt. I remember reading an interview w/them where they
said that as individuals they were racist (or some of them were) along the
lines of white pride, but as a band they weren't. They came to the U.S. in
'88 or '89--I missed the show 'cause I was sick--but IIRC they stayed with
one of the leaders of N.Y. SHARP while they were here. Make of that what
you will, I still like listening to their music.
Another band along the same lines would be Youth Defense League. As far
as I know they didn't openly record any racist songs, but they actually were
a racist band. A good friend (who's part Jewish) went and saw them and they
covered Skrewdriver's "White Power" in their live set. And they were on the
first NYHC compilation (The Way It Is), along w/Youth of Today, Gorilla
Biscuits, Krakdown, Supertouch, and other overtly anti-racist bands. Wasn't
that even produced by Ray Cappo (Youth of Today)?
--at rest
Marcus
>Chris's involvement in the NF/BM or what. But I have heard that he was the
>only racist member.
>
I think essentially what they were saying is that he had his beliefs, and was
entitled to them, he didn't preach it or anything, but then the media and
whatnot made a huge deal about it, and then it basically tore apart the band.
> I have a real big problem with listening to racist shit. I
>just don't want that stuff floating around in my head,
I don't have a problem with it(i'm not a skin, I should say), personally, I
find it complete bullshit when there is a blatantly racist song and someone
says they like it for the music not the politics, however I find a lot of it
reallly funny. That may be wrong, but oh well. I am really hard headed and
opinionated, and listening to No Remorse isn't gonna make me a racist.
I>. Sham didn't even play that,
>Right?
Actually they did I think
I know the Clash (who, despite Career Opurtunities were not
>remotely Oi!) and Infa Riot played, but there weren't any other Oi! bands
>were there? I didn't even think that Madness played.)
I don't know if they played RAR per say, but they did play some shit for red
wedge, but that may just have been as a favor for Jerry Dammers
>into a leatherfag, but that seems like quite a transition. I have heard of
>gay nazis (I'm not saying that Roi was a nazi, but he was pretty openly
>against gays), but I don't believe in them. Like santa.
In Europe there is a sizable amount of gays who get off from nazi uniforms
>that makes me lose a lot of respect for some people.
>But thanks for the clarification.
>
Well, that was just what I think RAC means, but if other people say that Combat
84 and the Last Resort qualify as RAC, then that doesn't automatically mean
they listen to WP bands
Marcus
>> Guitarist(Steve Pearce) joining Skrewdriver.
>Paul Swain from 4Skins played later in Skrewdriver aswell (on Blood and
>Honour album
Oops that's who I meant
Marcus
>
>Nobody's mentioned Condemned 84 yet--I know they were RAC, 'cause I used to
>have their RAC t-shirt. I remember reading an interview w/them where they
>said that as individuals they were racist (or some of them were) along the
> Another band along the same lines would be Youth Defense League. As far
>as I know they didn't openly record any racist songs, but they actually were
>a racist band.
Actually they did, or at least extremely national songs. Do you have The Skins
for skins comp?? of them. While some songs like Youth of America are just anti
immigration, They have songs where they say "Southern Cross, White Pride,
straight up skinheads never die" and another where they say "Lets keep this
land white" or something along those lines. I only have a CDR of it, so I'm not
sure of the exact titles of the songs though
A good friend (who's part Jewish) went and saw them and they
>covered Skrewdriver's "White Power" in their live set. And they were on the
>first NYHC compilation (The Way It Is), along w/Youth of Today, Gorilla
>Biscuits, Krakdown, Supertouch, and other overtly anti-racist bands. Wasn't
>that even produced by Ray Cappo (Youth of Today)?
Also in that comp they thank Ian Stuart I think
I don't own it, but a friend showed me that.
Marcus
>Paul Swain from 4Skins played later in Skrewdriver aswell (on Blood and
>Exposure(80's excellent Brit Oi! band album :for Mark
>Sutherland(Skrewdriver) and Roddy Moreno(Opressed) written in the the same
>line????Or Klasse Kriminale playing together with Battle Zone????
>Well ...times were different!!!!
Oh yeah, another one we forgot is the Drummer in Socialist Band Red london,
joined Skullhead
subzero
Użytkownik Marcus <ptp...@aol.communazi> w wiadomości do grup dyskusyjnych
napisał:20000117105832...@ng-fb1.aol.com...
> Oh yeah, another one we forgot is the Drummer in Socialist Band Red
london,
> joined Skullhead
subzero
Użytkownik thetoolsofwar <thetoo...@SPAMLESSvisto.com> w wiadomości do
grup dyskusyjnych napisał:85v3bg$f7o$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net...
> Nobody's mentioned Condemned 84 yet--I know they were RAC, 'cause I used
to
> have their RAC t-shirt. I remember reading an interview w/them where they
> said that as individuals they were racist (or some of them were) along the
in
> '88 or '89--I missed the show 'cause I was sick--but IIRC they stayed with
> one of the leaders of N.Y. SHARP while they were here. Make of that what
> you will, I still like listening to their music.
while moved to US???
Marcus
>Cry,Headcase,Retaliator ....Racist????Huh..Yeah thats true that PI has some
>RAC cd's in their mail order list ,but as a label they never did any
>WP/Racist stuff.
OK, to be honest, I don't know shit about any of those bands besides Section 5,
and red white and blue, but I think the latter could be racist here is some of
an interview from them
Discogrpahy.
Demo nr.1 includes 4 songs, demo nr.2 includes 3 songs, our 1st CD release
"Patriotic glory" on Pure impact records.(Soon to come our two first demo's on
CD, Rock-o-rama records
Has any band member played in other bands, if so what?
I (Arne have played in 2404(a Philly band), & Spirit of "88( an old school hard
core band).Arthur used to be the guitarist for Spirit of "88
Do you do any covers in your live set, if so what?
"Back with a bang" Skrewdriver.
What is the favourite song (and what band is it by) of each member of the band?
Arne: "New glory" by Y.D.L."
Arthur: "The fight goes on" by Bound for Glory
James: "R.A.C. by Brutal Attack.
Granted none of these things alone make a band necessarily racist, but let's
see, everyone puts a song by a racist band as their favorite. They are having
stuff out on Rock A Roma, a racist label. They cover a(granted non political)
skrewdriver song(and yes plenty of otehr non racist bands cover them too) And
I can only guess what spirit of 88 is supposed to mean.
I'm not saying 100% this makes them racist or whatever, but if people think
that, but if people think they are racist, I think you could see why.
oh yeah to seee the interview go to http://www.rip1.demon.co.uk/
Marcus
Pounding the Pavement
Soul-Ska-Reggae
http://www.zyworld.com/ptpzine
If you don't like it you don't have to dance-Jerry Dammers
subzero
Użytkownik Marcus <ptp...@aol.communazi> w wiadomości do grup dyskusyjnych
napisał:20000117104751...@ng-fb1.aol.com...
> A good friend (who's part Jewish) went and saw them and they
> >covered Skrewdriver's "White Power" in their live set. And they were on
the
> >first NYHC compilation (The Way It Is), along w/Youth of Today, Gorilla
> >Biscuits, Krakdown, Supertouch, and other overtly anti-racist bands.
Wasn't
> >that even produced by Ray Cappo (Youth of Today)?
>
> Also in that comp they thank Ian Stuart I think
> I don't own it, but a friend showed me that.
I heard that greetings for Ian were on one of the early Cro Mags "7
aswell...
Last time I saw old (from 80's)Warzone gig flyer with WP fist anf Celtic
Cross...
Subzero
subzero
Użytkownik Marcus <ptp...@aol.communazi> w wiadomości do grup dyskusyjnych
> Granted none of these things alone make a band necessarily racist, but
let's
> see, everyone puts a song by a racist band as their favorite. They are
having
> stuff out on Rock A Roma, a racist label. They cover a(granted non
political)
> skrewdriver song(and yes plenty of otehr non racist bands cover them too)
And
> I can only guess what spirit of 88 is supposed to mean.
ROR released tons on non political (even anti racist like Allierten) stuff
aswell.I have Red white Blue cd and there is no racist song there, but to be
honest they suck anyway..Whats about YDL's song "Skinhead 88" has it "same"
meaning:))))???
subzero
Użytkownik Marcus <ptp...@aol.communazi> w wiadomości do grup dyskusyjnych
napisał:20000117111142...@ng-fb1.aol.com...
> >Cry,Headcase,Retaliator ....Racist????Huh..Yeah thats true that PI has
some
> >RAC cd's in their mail order list ,but as a label they never did any
> >WP/Racist stuff.
>
> OK, to be honest, I don't know shit about any of those bands besides
Section 5,
> and red white and blue, but I think the latter could be racist here is
some of
> an interview from them
Heres what band members of Best Defence said in interview in Boots Brigade
zine (Lancaster ,PA)1988.
...."We are very right wing,but not conservative ,although we pretty much
support Rep. Party.We support Manifets Destiny abroad and the U.S. as the
only power and support any measure to attain that goal short of Nuclear
War.We support the poor,the handicapped,veterans and anyone who works hard
for living.We hate homosexuals,liberal left and anything to do with
Communism"....
...."We consider ourselves Americans first and skinheads or bootboys second
and anything else after that.I'am very NON-RACIAL and i know alot of true
black and spanish skinheads who I'd stand by anyday!But many of my friends
are White Pride supporters.But we dont let our difference in personal
oponion divide us and destroy our brotherhood.If teh scene was like that
everywhere,we could grow and we could put the Ku Klux Klan and Jesse Jackson
OUT OF BUSSINES!"...
Subzero
thetoolsofwar
> I heard that greetings for Ian were on one of the early Cro Mags "7
> aswell...
> Last time I saw old (from 80's)Warzone gig flyer with WP fist anf Celtic
> Cross...
> Subzero
Supposedly the wrist band Harley (Cro-Mags) always wore covered up some WP
ink. Ray Beez big lion tatto on his upper arm--ever notice how big and
black the mouth is? Some sort of cover-up--and I've heard that it was a
swastika, and that War Zone was originally a racist/nationalist band, thus
the iron cross w/the stars & stripes inside. I don't know if any of those
rumors are true, I do know that the WP guys I knew in the 80's loved War
Zone to start with and went to tons of their shows, but stopped going around
the time "Don't Forget the Struggle..." came out. Of course that doesn't
prove anything--the same guys loved Agnostic Front but would always stand at
the back, arms crossed and scowling, whenever AF played "Fascist Attitudes"
or "United and Strong." Either way, in honor of the dead and the fact that
he at least tried to change, peace to Ray. As for Harley---I saw his new
band a couple years ago and I liked it, regardless of any old ink he may or
may not have.
--at rest
subzero
Użytkownik thetoolsofwar <thetoo...@SPAMLESSvisto.com> w wiadomości do
grup dyskusyjnych napisał:85vo70$61j$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net...
>
Of course that doesn't
> prove anything--the same guys loved Agnostic Front but would always stand
at
> the back, arms crossed and scowling, whenever AF played "Fascist
Attitudes"
> or "United and Strong."
Alarm" album??
thetoolsofwar
Whats about YDL's song "Skinhead 88" has it "same"
> meaning:))))???
Big difference between '88 ( = 1988 A.D.) and 88 ( = H.H., the eighth
letters of the alphabet --> Heil Hitler). YDL probably meant both, since
the song came out in 1988 and they were WP. It's something a lot of WP guys
& gals use to identify each other without being blatant about it. Oh, and
18 translates to A.H., you guessed it, Adolf Hitler. Not much of a secret
code, is it? Obviously the work of superior intellects...not.
--at rest
subzero
Użytkownik thetoolsofwar <thetoo...@SPAMLESSvisto.com> w wiadomości do
>
> subzero <sub...@polbox.com> wrote in message
> news:FvHg4.32905$X3.6...@news.tpnet.pl...
> Whats about YDL's song "Skinhead 88" has it "same"
> > meaning:))))???
>
> Big difference between '88 ( = 1988 A.D.) and 88 ( = H.H., the eighth
> letters of the alphabet --> Heil Hitler).
Not much of a secret
> code, is it? Obviously the work of superior intellects...not.
9.So instead of 88 ....99!!!!!!!!!!Anyway,,who the fuck cares:)
Subzero
thetoolsofwar
> Whats about Bully Boys being listed on "Thank you" list on AF's "Cause for
> Alarm" album??
What about it? I don't know anything from the Bully Boys.
I think the real question is about "Public Assistance." A.F. maintains that
it's not a racist song, but it was written by Peter Steele from Carnivore
(now in Type O Negative)--both Carnivore and Type O have been accused of
racism repeatedly, just like A.F. A.F. has come out with a clear message of
anti-fascism and anti-racism however, while Steele's bands have never owned
up either way. Anyways, I've seen Roger & Co. hang out with people Nazi's
would've burned, and I've seen Frenchie's tattoo of a red-barred swastika
(red circle with bar across it, black swastika inside, done so the red had
to come first so it was no cover-up) when he was working their merchandise
table, so I'm pretty damn sure where they stand.
--at rest
Marcus
>meaning:))))???
Does it??? didn't that song come out in 88??
Marcus
skrewdriver song.
Trying to Figure out who's a jew
Trying to find another Coon Bitch to Screw
Spend My jobless days harassing spics and coons
But I hope we'll have an all white nation soon
chorus: Stupid and Racist, A Lazy Boy and the Soaps
Stupid and Racist, A nigger and a rope
Stupid and Racist, Why bother looking for a job
Stupid and Racist, who would hire such a slob
Just Last week I shaved my head,
Now I'm waging a war against the Reds
Let's dance in a square and hear that Redneck Roar, Yee Ha
No one knows that I'm the kid of an inbred whore
chorus
gee-tar solo
chorus
Plant my seed and have a son
Shine My Docs and toy with guns
I listen to Tom Metzger cos he spreads teh word
Too dumb to think for my selk and too lazy to work
chorus
subzero
Użytkownik thetoolsofwar <thetoo...@SPAMLESSvisto.com> w wiadomości do
>
> What about it? I don't know anything from the Bully Boys.
Bully Boys is a long existing (since84) WP skinhead band from TX.
> I think the real question is about "Public Assistance." A.F. maintains
that
> it's not a racist song, but it was written by Peter Steele from Carnivore
> (now in Type O Negative)--both Carnivore and Type O have been accused of
> racism repeatedly, just like A.F.
Yeah Carnivore been acused of racism becouse of track Race War and triple
swastkias on the album coever art.Just bought new Type O Negative new album
(doom-goth metal) and Steele wears communist patch on his shirt ...
DCBootboy
> >Whats about YDL's song "Skinhead 88" has it "same"
> >meaning:))))???
"Marcus " <ptp...@aol.communazi> wrote in message
news:20000117143740...@ng-fn1.aol.com...
> Does it??? didn't that song come out in 88??
Yes, it's on The US of Oi!, Copyright 1988. However, I don't think
there's a hell of a lot of credibility to the 1988 theory. I was a skin in
1988 (although a freshcut), and I don't remember too many people being
that excited about it (the year, not me being a skin. Although to be
honest, that didn't get too many people excited either. Except my mom.).
I mean, has anyone heard of "Skinheads '87" or "Skinheads '99?"
"subzero" <sub...@polbox.com> wrote in message
news:NPJg4.33345$X3.6...@news.tpnet.pl...
> Thats wrong .Using code system A sholud be coded as 0 so H will be coded
as
> 9.So instead of 88 ....99!!!!!!!!!!Anyway,,who the fuck cares:)
Um, H is the eigth letter of the alphabet. There really isn't much to this
code. And as for who cares, apparently boneheads do. Have you noticed all
the '88 people on this post? (I know most of them are cross-posting.)
Oi!
subzero
> "Marcus " <ptp...@aol.communazi> wrote in message
> news:20000117143740...@ng-fn1.aol.com...
> there's a hell of a lot of credibility to the 1988 theory. I was a skin
in
> 1988 (although a freshcut), and I don't remember too many people being
> that excited about it (the year, not me being a skin. Although to be
> honest, that didn't get too many people excited either.
Cockney Rejects,Skrewdriver,Red ALert,Blitz,Endstufe,Boehse Onkelz and some
US-core like :AF,Circle Jerks,7Seconds,Adrenalin OD .No one of us cares
about politics than.
Alan Guest
> Użytkownik Marcus <ptp...@aol.communazi> w wiadomości do grup dyskusyjnych
> napisa":20000116235015...@ng-ft1.aol.com...> I don't know what
> Rahowa's label is, but Pure Impact is a racist label, which
> > released some templars stuff(a band with black members). I don't know the
> > details, and it may be because of Vulture rock, not the band.
> Releasing bands like:Section 5,Red&White and Blue,Best Defence,Battle
> Cry,Headcase,Retaliator ....Racist????Huh..Yeah thats true that PI has some
> RAC cd's in their mail order list ,but as a label they never did any
> WP/Racist stuff.
> Subzero
Section 5 weren't anti-racist. From what I remember they were
self-professed chauvinists but not part of an organised group.
--
Alan
al...@macropolis.freeserve.co.uk
Skinhead Heaven - the world would never be the same again
http://www.macropolis.freeserve.co.uk
Alan Guest
> Nobody's mentioned Condemned 84 yet--I know they were RAC, 'cause I used to
> have their RAC t-shirt. I remember reading an interview w/them where they
> said that as individuals they were racist (or some of them were) along the
> lines of white pride, but as a band they weren't. They came to the U.S. in
> '88 or '89--I missed the show 'cause I was sick--but IIRC they stayed with
> one of the leaders of N.Y. SHARP while they were here. Make of that what
> you will, I still like listening to their music.
> Another band along the same lines would be Youth Defense League. As far
> as I know they didn't openly record any racist songs, but they actually were
> a racist band. A good friend (who's part Jewish) went and saw them and they
> covered Skrewdriver's "White Power" in their live set. And they were on the
> first NYHC compilation (The Way It Is), along w/Youth of Today, Gorilla
> Biscuits, Krakdown, Supertouch, and other overtly anti-racist bands. Wasn't
> that even produced by Ray Cappo (Youth of Today)?
> --at rest
Condemned 84 always seemed to be the band that always wanted to keep a
foot in both camps. I know the drummer was white power because he always
had a celtic cross on his flyer pocket which is the standard issue. I
think Kev was as well. This is just from my mates (Skin Deep) who gigged
with them on occasion.
Alan Guest
> > Anyway, I really didn't know if they just downplayed Chubby Chris's
> >involvement in the NF/BM or what. But I have heard that he was the only
> >racist member.
> >
> I think essentially what they were saying is that he had his beliefs, and
> was entitled to them, he didn't preach it or anything, but then the media
> and whatnot made a huge deal about it, and then it basically tore apart
> the band.
>
> > I have a real big problem with listening to racist shit. I just don't
> >want that stuff floating around in my head,
>
> I don't have a problem with it(i'm not a skin, I should say), personally,
> I find it complete bullshit when there is a blatantly racist song and
> someone says they like it for the music not the politics, however I find a
> lot of it reallly funny. That may be wrong, but oh well. I am really
> hard headed and
> opinionated, and listening to No Remorse isn't gonna make me a racist.
>
> I>. Sham didn't even play that, >Right?
>
> Actually they did I think
>
> I know the Clash (who, despite Career Opurtunities were not >remotely
> Oi!) and Infa Riot played, but there weren't any other Oi! bands >were
> there? I didn't even think that Madness played.)
>
> I don't know if they played RAR per say, but they did play some shit for
> red wedge, but that may just have been as a favor for Jerry Dammers
>
> >into a leatherfag, but that seems like quite a transition. I have heard
> >of gay nazis (I'm not saying that Roi was a nazi, but he was pretty
> >openly against gays), but I don't believe in them. Like santa.
>
> In Europe there is a sizable amount of gays who get off from nazi uniforms
>
> >that makes me lose a lot of respect for some people. But thanks for the
> >clarification.
> >
>
> Well, that was just what I think RAC means, but if other people say that
> Combat 84 and the Last Resort qualify as RAC, then that doesn't
> automatically mean they listen to WP bands
>
I think you're being too naive if you think Combat 84 were not nazis.
They may not have proselytized but you could only get their records via
the NF so what does that tell you about the average Combat 84 follower?
The Last Resort (The shop that spawned the band) was staffed by WP skins
so I don't think the Last Resort were non-racist either. As one of my
mates once put it [does cockney accent] "The official line is we're not
racist right..." which kind of summed up most of the London Oi bands.
Alan Guest
> Memories...
> OK, for the record, I had "Boots'N'Braces" on Rock-O-Rama, it had 8 songs:
> Back With A Bang, I Don't Like You, Anti-Social, Built Up Knocked Down,
> Boots and Braces, and I can't remember the other 3 titles. It was eight
> songs, but still shorter than most full-length LP's in playing time.
> I had "Voice of Britain" on White Power Records (wasn't that Stuart's own
> label? so I've been told) and it was definitely full length. Song titles
> I can remember: White Power, Smash the IRA, Shove the Dove, Voice of
> Britain, On the Boat, Sick Society...I forget the rest. Something about
> English Rose? Boys In Blue?
> Huge contrast in lyrical content b/t the two albums, obviously. I forget
> the release/copyright dates, but I remember that my copies made it seem like
> Voice was released first--was the Rock-O-Rama a re-release, maybe?
> --at rest
From what I remember from my mate's collection, All Skrewed Up was
definitely first and the comp you are talking about seems to pull songs
from different Skrewdriver eras. I Don't Like You, Back With a Bang and
Anti-Social are very early. I'm almosty sure Smash The Ira and Shove the
Dove backed each other on single as did White Power/When The Boat Comes
In. Voice of Britain/Sick Society was a single before those two and the
Boys in Blue one sounds like one of the tracks from Hail The New Dawn.
thetoolsofwar
> > What about it? I don't know anything from the Bully Boys.
> Bully Boys is a long existing (since84) WP skinhead band from TX.
OK, I never heard them. Now I probably never will. ; )
> Yeah Carnivore been acused of racism becouse of track Race War and triple
> swastkias on the album coever art.Just bought new Type O Negative new
album
> (doom-goth metal) and Steele wears communist patch on his shirt ...
The "triple swastikas" supposedly represent the "three sevens of apartheid"
in South Africa...I know one of the 7's is the "Seven Aryan races" but
forget what the other two were. Besides "Race War" (with the lines about
"xenophobia instilled at birth" and "your skin's an ugly color" songs like
"Male Supremacy" and "Jesus Hitler" didn't give them a very PC-persona.
Type O's "We Hate Everyone" didn't help shed light on their beliefs, other
than their (correct and true) belief that controversy sells records. Steele
had a CCCR Hammer'N'Sickle t-shirt on on the back photo of Carnivore's
second album, "Retaliation" as well. His lyrics to "Public Assistance" and
Type O's "Der Untermensch" really make me doubt that he's a genuine
Communist or socialist of any type. He's definitely a misogynist,
though...none of his bands have ever been particularly flattering (or
anything short of derogatory) towards females. "Where there's a womb
there's a way, and with you it's for free" --Type O
Out of curiousity, how bad is the new Type O album? I gave away "October
Rust" and haven't listened to anything of theirs since.
--at rest
thetoolsofwar
Marcus <ptp...@aol.communazi> wrote in message
> >. I know the drummer was white power because he always
> >had a celtic cross on his flyer pocket which is the standard issue.
>
thing, as
> I know some people who have them who are anything but racist. However,
I'd say
> if you aren't catholic or Irish, it usually is racist.
If you're a skinhead in the U.S., assume it's racist. The iron cross isn't
necessarily, but the celtic cross is either White Pride or White Power 99%
of the time. Pride when facing non-/anti-racists, Power around other
racists...it's the ultimate symbol of a fence-rider, IMO, especially 'cause
a lot of them will try to explain it away as part of their Irish or Celtic
heritage. My friend who was SxE then went Hammerskin started off by drawing
a Celtic cross on the lapel of his denim jacket...first he tried to explain
it as "Oh yeah...um...see, I beat up a Nazi and took his jacket" then later
it became a heritage thing, then White Pride, then he went Hammerskin. Now
he's not involved w/any of it, so we're friends again. I knew another kid
who had it tattooed on his back along with a bunch of other stuff typically
associated with WP, and apparently he liked to get drunk and Sieg Heil his
record player listening to WP bands...but he was never racist...or so he
claimed. I can say "fence-rider"--now say it with me. "Fence rider."
--at rest
Upsetter
in 1988. I don't think the who 14/88 shit had become popular. I never heard
of that stuff untill 1996. As far as YDL being racist...I keep saying there
is a lot of gray area involved with skins at that time. The thank you list
on the revelation comp includes, Raybeez, Jimmy G, Ian Stuart, Skrewdriver
and Brutal Attack. Go figure. I still say they were the one of the best
AmOi! bands of all time.
--
the Upsetter http://www.geocities.com/upsetter.geo/crucified.html
"Hum a few bars and I'll smash your face in."
Suggs McPherson
"subzero" <sub...@polbox.com> wrote in message
news:FvHg4.32905$X3.6...@news.tpnet.pl...
>
> Użytkownik Marcus <ptp...@aol.communazi> w wiadomości do grup
dyskusyjnych
> napisał:20000117111142...@ng-fb1.aol.com...
>
> > Granted none of these things alone make a band necessarily racist, but
> let's
> > see, everyone puts a song by a racist band as their favorite. They are
> having
> > stuff out on Rock A Roma, a racist label. They cover a(granted non
> political)
> > skrewdriver song(and yes plenty of otehr non racist bands cover them
too)
> And
> > I can only guess what spirit of 88 is supposed to mean.
> ROR released tons on non political (even anti racist like Allierten)
stuff
> aswell.I have Red white Blue cd and there is no racist song there, but to
be
> honest they suck anyway..Whats about YDL's song "Skinhead 88" has it
"same"
> meaning:))))???
>
>
>
Upsetter
biggest thrills for me was when 7 seconds toured with Skankin Pickle (don't
talk shit, they were good live and they are great folks). I think I was one
of three people who danced to every 7 seconds song and knew all the lyrics.
When I was sixteen posicore and being a skater skin (yes, there were skater
skins) were all I cared about. Gerry and Lars(horns for skankin pickle) are
friends of mine so I managed to get secreted backstage for a serious bong
session with both bands. Funny how straight edge kids always turn into
potheads.
--
the Upsetter http://www.geocities.com/upsetter.geo/crucified.html
"Hum a few bars and I'll smash your face in."
Suggs McPherson
"subzero" <sub...@polbox.com> wrote in message
news:aRKg4.33554$X3.6...@news.tpnet.pl...
> >
> > "Marcus " <ptp...@aol.communazi> wrote in message
Upsetter
since the late eighties. They even thank him on their L.P.s. I saw Warzone
open for Gov't Issue in 1989 and One of the guys from YDL was their roadie.
The Cro-Mags thank Ian Stuart and Skrewdriver on Age of Quarrel. So what?
Life is not black and white and personal politics seem to change
sporadically. I have had racist friends and I have even spent some time in
my life with a racist attitude. You grow and learn. Shit, seven years ago
tonight I was watching my friends getting pelted with snowballs on the steps
of the capital building here in Denver on the evening news. Politics fade,
hopefully friendship will always endure.
--
the Upsetter http://www.geocities.com/upsetter.geo/crucified.html
"Hum a few bars and I'll smash your face in."
Suggs McPherson
"thetoolsofwar" <thetoo...@SPAMLESSvisto.com> wrote in message
news:85vqp3$dtk$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net...
>
> subzero <sub...@polbox.com> wrote in message
> news:7KJg4.33328$X3.6...@news.tpnet.pl...
> > Whats about Bully Boys being listed on "Thank you" list on AF's "Cause
for
> > Alarm" album??
>
> What about it? I don't know anything from the Bully Boys.
> I think the real question is about "Public Assistance." A.F. maintains
that
> it's not a racist song, but it was written by Peter Steele from Carnivore
> (now in Type O Negative)--both Carnivore and Type O have been accused of
Marcus
>had a celtic cross on his flyer pocket which is the standard issue.
I trust he was WP, but Celtic cross is not necessarily a White Power thing, as
I know some people who have them who are anything but racist. However, I'd say
if you aren't catholic or Irish, it usually is racist.
Marcus
DCBootboy
"thetoolsofwar" <thetoo...@SPAMLESSvisto.com> wrote in message
>. The iron cross isn't
White Power 99%
> of the time. Pride when facing non-/anti-racists, Power around other
> racists...it's the ultimate symbol of a fence-rider, IMO, especially
'cause
> a lot of them will try to explain it away as part of their Irish or Celtic
> heritage.
right over my skins tattoo. We didn't think they're was anything wrong with
this. (I have black, asian, and hispanic friends with iron cross tattoos,
and they don't think it's racist.) Now, we would have (had) a problem with
a genuine nazi medal, which I've seen on a couple of fence riders (FYI
there's a swazi in the middle. It's small, but you can make it out. I'm
sure there are a dozen of them at every gunshow, so some of you must have
seen them). But the iron cross, after Don't Forget the Struggle, at least
(and Ag Front's Skinhead shirt) was a pretty empty symbol. At best, it
meant "pride" or strength or honor. You get the point. Some basic
skinhead beliefs that I'm sure nazis share with us. It didn't mean
anything.
But the celtic cross, unless it was an elaborate design in some tribal
tattoo, has pretty much always been a dead wringer for nazi. Recently,
I've been seeing the triskalion (am I misspelling this? it's essentially a
three legged swaztica) on boneheads. Of course, most of them say that
white pride shit to me. Even though I'm far from imposing. But I know who
they are.
My point here is that nazis are essentially hiding behind these symbols
that mainstream people at least are unaware of. So all these
88BoneheadNation kids can identify each other, but as you said, they often
deny that they're racist when we see them.
Anyway, lots of these kids listen to RAC, whether they admit it or
not. I'm not saying that everybody who listens to this is a nazi, but
you're right to point out that a lot of fence riders start out "just
listening to it for the music."
Oi!
WWSP
A=0 you say? so H should be coded as 9??
B=1, C=2, .... H=7 IMO
subzero
Użytkownik WWSP <WW...@antisocial.com> w wiadomości do grup dyskusyjnych
napisał:XxWg4.2515$3e5....@news.chello.be...
pascal
meet bands and you just think that maybe they're naive...
pascal
DCBootboy wrote:
>
> "subzero" <sub...@polbox.com> wrote in message
> news:FvHg4.32905$X3.6...@news.tpnet.pl...
> > >Whats about YDL's song "Skinhead 88" has it "same"
> > >meaning:))))???
>
> "Marcus " <ptp...@aol.communazi> wrote in message
> news:20000117143740...@ng-fn1.aol.com...
> > Does it??? didn't that song come out in 88??
>
> Yes, it's on The US of Oi!, Copyright 1988. However, I don't think
> there's a hell of a lot of credibility to the 1988 theory. I was a skin in
> 1988 (although a freshcut), and I don't remember too many people being
> that excited about it (the year, not me being a skin. Although to be
> honest, that didn't get too many people excited either. Except my mom.).
> I mean, has anyone heard of "Skinheads '87" or "Skinheads '99?"
>
> "subzero" <sub...@polbox.com> wrote in message
pascal
experience, most of the people who were involved with "both sides"
persay probably did it out of personal problems (because in most cases
these people wouldn't even qualify to be a nazi, so you gotta figure
they got some compulsion to do it)... black nazis, deaf nazis, "100%
latino" nazis, etc...
pascal
>
> I knew that All skrewed up came out first, I just wasn't sure it was full
> length. I thought it was an e.p. Yeah it's an EP I got it. Also "Antisocial."
Those are great songs, and as everybody knows, skrewdriver should've
changed their name when they rformed...
pascal
>
> I knew that All skrewed up came out first, I just wasn't sure it was full
> length. I thought it was an e.p.
>
> --
> the Upsetter http://www.geocities.com/upsetter.geo/crucified.html
first release, Antisocial is the 7" w/ I don't like you. And there's
another 7". Both are on Chiswick records.
pascal
>
> Upsetter <upse...@usa.net> wrote:
>
> > I knew that All skrewed up came out first, I just wasn't sure it was full
> > length. I thought it was an e.p.
> >
> influence. They covered 19th Nervous Breakdown and Won't Get Fooled
> Again that has a funny line about the hair all growing shorter over
> night. There's a song called 'I don't like you' on it that I used to
> like.
>
> --
> Alan
> al...@macropolis.freeserve.co.uk
> Skinhead Heaven - the world would never be the same again
> http://www.macropolis.freeserve.co.uk
IIIII dont you like
I dont like you anymooooooorrrrreeeee
1 2 3 4
pascal
with all their early stuff... It's got good songs, I think only one
racist song is on there, so you can always skip that one.
thetoolsofwar wrote:
>
> Memories...
> OK, for the record, I had "Boots'N'Braces" on Rock-O-Rama, it had 8 songs:
> Back With A Bang, I Don't Like You, Anti-Social, Built Up Knocked Down,
> Boots and Braces, and I can't remember the other 3 titles. It was eight
> songs, but still shorter than most full-length LP's in playing time.
> I had "Voice of Britain" on White Power Records (wasn't that Stuart's own
> label? so I've been told) and it was definitely full length. Song titles
> I can remember: White Power, Smash the IRA, Shove the Dove, Voice of
> Britain, On the Boat, Sick Society...I forget the rest. Something about
> English Rose? Boys In Blue?
> Huge contrast in lyrical content b/t the two albums, obviously. I forget
> the release/copyright dates, but I remember that my copies made it seem like
> Voice was released first--was the Rock-O-Rama a re-release, maybe?
> --at rest
--
"Everybody's doing
Just what they're told to
Nobody wants
To go to jail!"
- The Clash
thetoolsofwar
Upsetter <upse...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:860m7v$d7f$1...@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net...
> being a skater skin (yes, there were skater
> skins)
Yeah there were...I own two skateboards now. One's a Simms Flagship with
the British flag I've had since about '87, the other's a new school board
with a blank deck I got for free and Satanic wheels with flames and inverted
crosses I got a couple years ago. I still can't do an ollie, but when
you've got no car and aren't going far, skateboards = great transport & a
seat when you get there. I've got a car now, but every rare once and a
while I still go out and play. Learned to do rail slides when I was 25!
And just for the occasion:
"I can't skate
Not like Lance
I can't skate
But I can dance" --In Your Face (I can't skate)
Never mind Token Entry's Jaybird or the Underdog tunes...now these are good
memories!
--at rest
thetoolsofwar
DCBootboy <DCBo...@email.com> wrote in message
news:860va3$2v74$1...@mercury.vcu.edu...
> (snip for space)
Spelling: "triskelion", IIRC from biology class...something about a protein
coat formation?
Iron crosses--we all used to wear 'em, I had one on my flight for years, I
still have a necklace (never wear it anymore, though), etc. We always
thought of it as mostly a unity and pride kind of thing b/t skins,
regardless of race or politics. Sounds like your scene was very similar to
mine that way.
As far as RAC--I still like Condemned 84, Combat 84, Last Resort, all
these "borderline" bands. I like the literal idea of RAC, I wish someone
would stage an RAC concert (w/no overty Nazi bands) just to protest Rage
Against the Machine and their b.s. front of being Marxist revolutionaries.
Not to promote racism or even skinheads necessarily, just to fight
Communism. (Sorry Billy! It's how I feel, and what I believe. I'd be
happy with an anti-fascist concert, too.)
--at rest
thetoolsofwar
> That song came out in 88 and in my neck of the woods it just meant
skinheads
> in 1988. I don't think the who 14/88 shit had become popular. I never
heard
> of that stuff untill 1996.
I wish I could say the same, but the local WP guys made it clear that they
thought it was for Heil Hitler, and that was in 1988 when the album first
came out. Still a good song, though.
--at rest
Soul Stomper
>
> People just don tnkow what the fuck they are... besides... from my
> experience, most of the people who were involved with "both sides"
> persay probably did it out of personal problems (because in most cases
> these people wouldn't even qualify to be a nazi, so you gotta figure
> they got some compulsion to do it)... black nazis, deaf nazis, "100%
> latino" nazis, etc...
>
How about openly lesbian neo-nazis?? I've heard of them too.
PATRlOT 13
I also have an Iron Cross tattoo...The mainstream public is so stupid its
unbelievable...i Cant tell you how many times its been mistaken for a
swastika(how an iron cross looks like a swastika is beyond me). The Iron Cross
was a medal of honor one got in the battlfield while fighting for the Prussian
military. Germany adopted it and used it as their own first in world war 1
without the swazi...then again in WWII with the small swazi in the middle. So
sure its gotton a bad rap for that...but its not a "evil" symbol by any means.
As for the fence sitting...I dont think that necassarily happens from listening
to RAC. I think usualy there are other influences pressent, as in people.
Plenty of people who are obvious non-racists listen to RAC. Another thing about
RAC is that most of it has a very destinct sound which seems to be a Oi hard
rock cross over...you dont find that much in "traditional" non racist or
apolitical Oi!. you also dont find it in hate core and that weird ass metal
some of those people listen too. So I wont disagree with someone who says they
like the sound. I like a lot of the music too. Some of it also has some good
lyrics that arent(at least not overtly) racist...lots of nationalist, stick
togetherness(more along the lines of straight edge brotherhood then the "Oi Oi
drink with the mates" of Oi) etc.
I suppose though that small minds could be pushed in any direction...
-Cameron
PATRlOT 13
>these "borderline" bands. I like the literal idea of RAC, I wish someone
>would stage an RAC concert (w/no overty Nazi bands) just to protest Rage
>Against the Machine and their b.s. front of being Marxist revolutionaries.
>Not to promote racism or even skinheads necessarily, just to fight
>Communism. (Sorry Billy! It's how I feel, and what I believe. I'd be
>happy with an anti-fascist concert, too.)
>--at rest
Thats what i like about 80's US Oi/RAC bands....they used the phrase Rock
Against Communism for what it meant...lots of patriotism, us against them,
nationalistic stuff. There seem to be some good bands along those lines today.
red, white, and blue, and the Unruly(i havent heard their new band yet and dont
know what they are upto so i cant speak on that)
Thats how a feel about condemned 84 and section 5 also...they were obvious
patriots and some of them may be racist but thats not their primary function
nor is it their drive.
-Cameron
Soul Stomper
>
> (Sorry Billy! It's how I feel, and what I believe. I'd be
> happy with an anti-fascist concert, too.)
> --at rest
>
Ummm what do I have to do with any of this?? Why are you
apologizing to me?? Ummm....
Confused and Feeling Dizzy and Ill,
Billy
Soul Stomper
Bloody Europeans :)
Billy
Upsetter
with Agent Orange. When they started to soundcheck we were calling them the
schmoes cuz they looked like our friend Joe who we called schmoe. We had
never heard of them and by the third riff in their first song we were
fucking blown away. They were a band that really didn't translate well on
vinyl, but to see them live was a thing of beauty. I saw them again about
two years later with Supertouch (another schmoe looking band) and Russ's
bass amp blew out, Richie got bored and proceeded to freestyle for about
ten minutes with the drummer. Vegan skate hip hop. Nuff respect to Underdog!
We stand and fight....
--
the Upsetter http://www.geocities.com/upsetter.geo/crucified.html
"Hum a few bars and I'll smash your face in."
Suggs McPherson
"thetoolsofwar" <thetoo...@SPAMLESSvisto.com> wrote in message
news:862k9d$map$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net...
>
> Upsetter <upse...@usa.net> wrote in message
DCBootboy
the choppy English on this post? (Not that I can speak any foreign
languages - well).
Oi!
"Soul Stomper" <soul_s...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:3884FD...@nospam.com...
DCBootboy
news:20000118180703...@ng-fg1.aol.com...
> I also have an Iron Cross tattoo...The mainstream public is so stupid its
> unbelievable...i Cant tell you how many times its been mistaken for a
> swastika(how an iron cross looks like a swastika is beyond me). The Iron
Cross
> was a medal of honor one got in the battlfield while fighting for the
Prussian
> military. Germany adopted it and used it as their own first in world war 1
> without the swazi...then again in WWII with the small swazi in the middle.
So
> sure its gotton a bad rap for that...but its not a "evil" symbol by any
means.
marksmanship), maybe J A Dare could fill us in on the others? But the iron
cross is a very widespread symbol. I'm not going to argue that every symbol
that Hitler incorporated should be dissasociated with nazi's, but I think
there's a strong case that whatever the iron cross meant to the Germans, it
probably also meant to the rest of Europe and the US. (And this didn't mean
anything racist.) That's not quite the same as incorporating some celtic
runes that no one undertood anyway. (Isn't the swastika supposed to mean
overwhelming power? I know that's not inconsistent with the nazi image,
but it at least sounds universal to Europeans.)
>
> As for the fence sitting...I dont think that necassarily happens from
listening
> to RAC.
Neither do I. But they do seem to listen to it. It doesn't follow,
though, that RAC causes it. I think it's more likely that their weak
brains are looking for spoon fed answers for why they can't get everything
that they think they deserve in life, but that's just a theory. But the
fence sitting per se is characterised by basically being two-faced about
your beliefs. This isn't inconsistent with lying about agreeing with RAC
lyrics.
>I think usualy there are other influences pressent, as in people.
I agree.
>Another thing about
> RAC is that most of it has a very destinct sound which seems to be a Oi
hard
> rock cross over...you dont find that much in "traditional" non racist or
> apolitical Oi!
Yes, but there are some bands that sound like it. I think that the
Oppressed (about as left as you can get without being a RedSkin) sound a
lot like the hard edge of Combat 84. So do the Oxymorons. I'll concede
that there aren't many nonracist bands that sound like that, but if you
listen to enough Oi!, you're bound to find something similar.As far as the
whole rocking racism thing, like RAHOWA, I'm sure that there are thousands
of white trash rockabilly bands that are even catchier.
>So I wont disagree with someone who says they
> like the sound. I like a lot of the music too. Some of it also has some
good
> lyrics that arent(at least not overtly) racist...lots of nationalist,
stick
> togetherness(more along the lines of straight edge brotherhood then the
"Oi Oi
> drink with the mates" of Oi) etc.
Well, ok, but are you willing to listen to racist lyrics in between those
songs? I'm not. And if you really want that sound, why not just form a
band yourself. It's not that hard - most Oi! is just three-chords, 4-4
anyways. And you get to drink for free and pick up girls (or make your
wives or girlfriends jealous.) I'm not saying that some RAC doesn't sound
good, I'm just saying that it isn't good.
Oi!
DCBootboy
> I like the literal idea of RAC, I wish someone
> would stage an RAC concert (w/no overty Nazi bands) just to protest Rage
> Against the Machine and their b.s. front of being Marxist revolutionaries.
> Not to promote racism or even skinheads necessarily, just to fight
> Communism.
But you know, if you don't like it, you don't have to dance.
Oi!
PS. I don't like it either, but the idea of protesting it still seems
political. It's like you could make it bigger than it already is.
Soul Stomper
>
> I think it's like "re" in some different language or program. Notice all
> the choppy English on this post? (Not that I can speak any foreign
> languages - well).
>
> Oi!
>
Ahhh okay, I see whatcha mean now. It just looks a little weird.
Billy
Regina Winter
stage or as part of an audience, so this can only be a hypothesis based on
mostly the interiews ... all nice psychological terms aside, could it be he's
just plain a dumbass? It *does* happen, you know.
Still. Some years ago, in one of these hugely annoying German "punk"(student)
zines who are usually so very fast with calling everyone whose nose they don't
like, who talked to often to their girl/boyfriend or who sold more records than
their band a "fascist" or "nazi", someone came up with the idea that there is
still quite a difference between someone being a real stupid asshole and being
a fascist or nazi. A lot of these dumb assholes wouldn't recognize a real
fascist if he ... killed them? What's worse, a lot of these politically correct
morons don't recognize the difference either.
Regina
"And it's a promise, and it's a threat, and it's not something that I'll let
you forget"
(Rites of Spring)
Marcus
>listening
>about
>RAC is that most of it has a very destinct sound which seems to be a Oi hard
>rock cross over...you dont find that much in "traditional" non racist or
>they
>like the sound. I like a lot of the music too. Some of it also has some good
>lyrics that arent(at least not overtly) racist...lots of nationalist, stick
>togetherness(more along the lines of straight edge brotherhood then the "Oi
>Oi
>drink with the mates" of Oi) etc.
>
I have to agree completely. Some people if they listen to enough racist music
will become racist. Some people however aren't that weakminded. I am very
opinionated and music isn't gonna influence me. I'm not saying that no one has
started out 'just for the music' and eventually became racist, or that you
people who don't listen to it are weak minded, but well I think you can see
what I'm saying
Marcus
Pounding the Pavement
Soul-Ska-Reggae
http://www.zyworld.com/ptpzine
If you don't like it you don't have to dance-Jerry Dammers
Marcus
>
>That song came out in 88 and in my neck of the woods it just meant skinheads
>in 1988. I don't think the who 14/88 shit had become popular. I never heard
>is a lot of gray area involved with skins at that time. The thank you list
>on the revelation comp includes, Raybeez, Jimmy G, Ian Stuart, Skrewdriver
>and Brutal Attack. Go figure. I still say they were the one of the best
>AmOi! bands of all time.
>
They did interviews for Blood and Honor and said they were nationalist and had
white pride without further explanation. Whether or not that makes them
racist, I don't think they can too pisssed if that makes people think they are.
Not to mention that some of their later songs, said to keep the country white
and shit like that. Still a great band though
Marcus
>first release, Antisocial is the 7" w/ I don't like you. And there's
>another 7". Both are on Chiswick records.
>
1st 7", Your So Dumb
2nd 7" Anti Social(I think this is the one where tehy are first skins
Then The LP came out after the 7"s
Marcus
>They may not have proselytized but you could only get their records via
>the NF so what does that tell you about the average Combat 84 follower?
I have stated that almost all my info is just from the sleeve notes of link
releases, and i"m sure they wanted to paint a prettier picture of the band
after the fact. However, let's consider a few things
1) The National Front really did not want to be called a nazi organization
2) I never said that the band members weren't racist, but nazis and racists are
two different things
3) Lots of Madness' Sham 69, followers were NF, does that make them NF(not
saying that Combat 84 wasn't NF, just that logic doesn't always work)
>The Last Resort (The shop that spawned the band) was staffed by WP skins
>so I don't think the Last Resort were non-racist either.
Well,(correct me if I'm wrong) the Last Resort the band wasn't formed through
the shop, just they took the name from it. I didn't know that teh people from
the shop were WP(but it doesn't really suprise me), however just because they
were friends with WP people and had them put out some records doesn't mean they
themselves were WP. I'm not saying it's not possible that certain members of
the band were racist, but I think it's wrong to catergorize the whole band.
Fuck, do you think Authur K is white Power???
Regina Winter
>1) The National Front really did not want to be called a nazi organization
Sure they didn't, given that not many people in Britain remember the original
Nazis too fondly.
subzero
Użytkownik DCBootboy <DCBo...@email.com> w wiadomości do grup dyskusyjnych
napisał:86357r$71na$1...@mercury.vcu.edu...
> I think it's like "re" in some different language or program. Notice all
> the choppy English on this post? (Not that I can speak any foreign
> languages - well).
>
> Oi!
Marcus
>>1) The National Front really did not want to be called a nazi organization
>
>Sure they didn't, given that not many people in Britain remember the original
>Nazis too fondly.
I know, but my point is that just because someone is in the NF, doesn't mean
they are a nazi
PATRlOT 13
>had
>white pride without further explanation. Whether or not that makes them
>racist, I don't think they can too pisssed if that makes people think they
>are.
> Not to mention that some of their later songs, said to keep the country
>white
>and shit like that. Still a great band though
>
People also need to realize...back in the day there were many bands who were
white pride but not power....Ive noticed that notion has disapeared....but
thats a good thing. You cant fault some of these bands for beliefs they had
when they were young.
-Cameron
Alan Guest
> >
> >>1) The National Front really did not want to be called a nazi organization
> >
> >Sure they didn't, given that not many people in Britain remember the original
> >Nazis too fondly.
>
> I know, but my point is that just because someone is in the NF, doesn't mean
> they are a nazi
>
It's just semantics. They're nazis whether they want to be or not. They
are the first to raise their right arms when it suits them.
thetoolsofwar
> > Ummm what do I have to do with any of this?? Why are you
> apologizing to me?? Ummm....
Aren't you supposed to be the resident Red? you seem to get accused of it
fairly regularly...I was just kidding, anyway.
--at rest
thetoolsofwar
> > I see what you mean, but you're inviting an apolitical political
paradox.
> But you know, if you don't like it, you don't have to dance.
>
> Oi!
>
> PS. I don't like it either, but the idea of protesting it still seems
> political. It's like you could make it bigger than it already is.
This idea is political, such a concert would by definition be political.
I'm not against someone standing for a certain political view, I just
separate being political from being a skin. You can be a skin with just
about any political perspective there is...but some are better than others,
as demonstrated by world history.
--at rest
thetoolsofwar
Regina Winter <rwint...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000118191753...@ng-fl1.aol.com...
> (snip)
I really doubt that Peter Steele is just a dumbass--read over the Carnivore
lyrics sometime if you get the chance. Like it or not, the man has at least
a passing familiarity with the sciences, especially genetics and nuclear
technology, and history, especially the history of warfare. I'm not
claiming he's necessarily a genius or anything, but his subjects and
vocabulary, along with his rather creative treatment of them, make me
believe he's neither ignorant nor stupid. A hateful misogynist and probably
a racist, yes, but I think even a lot of that shit is to stir up controversy
and sell records. He basically said just that on Type O's second album:
"Lies and slander in vain try to shame us * Riots, protests, violence just
makes us famous * TV interviews, free publicity * Increase record sales
dramatically" --from "We Hate Everyone"
--at rest