Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss

This is really long, but PLEASE take the time to read it.

281 views
Skip to first unread message

Weiss Macht Byrd

unread,
Mar 5, 2001, 2:26:53 AM3/5/01
to
Sunday, March 4, 2001

Defendants say DA playing racial hatred card in attack
Attorney criticizes prosecution in Temecula case
Date: 10/31/99

By Scott Farwell
The Press-Enterprise

A black man runs blindly through the veil of night, hiding in bushes,
exhausted, terrified as a pack of marauding men close in on him, screaming,
"Kill that nigger."

He sprints toward a light of a nearby ranch, blood oozing from wounds on his
head and back. He leaps a fence, and calls out to a stranger, "I need help.
There are skinheads. Can you call 911?"

That is what prosecutors and a dozen witnesses who testified before the grand
jury say.

But a defense attorney and relatives of the six men suspected in the beating in
Temecula's wine country last spring claim the case is more about hype than
hate.

They say when four white officers shot and killed Tyisha Miller in Riverside in
December, it ripped a scab off festering race wounds in Riverside County. The
best way to start the healing with minority groups, defense advocates say, is
to convict a group of alleged skinheads.

Miller, a black woman, was shot by four officers as she sat semiconscious in a
car with a gun on her lap. The district attorney's office criticized officers
for poor judgment but declined to prosecute.

A task force found that race was not a factor in the shooting, but the case was
a lightning rod for accusations of racism and abuse of power by police by
national civil rights groups and local citizens. Federal prosecutors are now
investigating whether Miller's civil rights were violated.

"The atmosphere is ripe to prosecute a hate crime," said Peter Morreale, an
attorney for one of the men accused in the St. Patrick's Day attack on Randy
Wordell Bowen, 23, of Murrieta. "Anytime you have the DA calling a press
conference where he says this is the most serious hate crime in Riverside
County history, you know it's a bunch of bull."

Riverside County Supervising District Attorney Paul Zellerbach says the case --
involving alleged members of a group known as the Western Hammerskins -- is
criminal, not political.

"This office is going to be aggressive in the prosecution of hate crimes
regardless of the ethnicity of the victims or suspects," he said. "This
prosecution has nothing to do with the Tyisha Miller situation."

* * *

Impromptu party On March 17, "Bad Taste," a compilation CD featuring songs by
23 Temecula bands debuted at Spin Records on Jefferson Street in Temecula. To
celebrate, the heavy metal band Kettle Cadaver and punk rockers El Domino
played at the store.

But the concert didn't last long.

Dancers in a mosh pit -- a frenzied form of dancing where participants slam
into each other -- broke a glass case at the record store, according to grand
jury testimony.

Managers silenced the music, but hours later many of those spectators,
including several people identified by authorities as skinheads, convoyed to an
impromptu bonfire party at Murdock's, a remote teen-age hangout off De Portola
Road in Temecula's wine country.

Bowen joined the party at the invitation of a friend. About an hour and a half
after he arrived, four men walked up behind him.

"I heard a loud, loud crash and an odd sensation on my head," Bowen told the
grand jury. "It was like black for a minute and then I looked and I turned
around. This guy was standing there, and I reached up and felt my head and I
had blood on my hand and I said, "What was that for?"

Prosecutors say Travis George Miskam, 20, of Hemet smashed a bottle over
Bowen's head. Miskam stands 5-foot, 6-inches tall and Bowen is more than 6 feet
tall.

"We don't like niggers here. I don't like niggers," Miskam said, according to
Bowen's testimony.

Twelve grand jury witnesses said Bowen was then pursued down a hill by as many
as 20 people, including some members of the band Kettle Cadaver, Miskam, and
co-defendants Alan Thomas Yantis, Daniel Glen Butler, Gregory Allan McDaniel,
Jesse David Douglas and Jason Mac McCully.

"I could hear them screaming and yelling and growling . . . just like a pack,"
Bowen testified. "During their yelling there was a loud shriek from some girls
that were with them . . . 'Get that nigger.' "

Prosecutors said Miskam appeared to lead the group, at one point yelling,
"Skinheads, halt."

"Everybody just stopped. All of them, like, it was weird. It was just like --
it was like military style," Bowen told grand jurors. "And then he (Miskam)
says something else and then just, woooo, and they were just yelling, 'Nigger,
nigger, nigger. We're coming.' "

A witness testified Miskam then jumped-kicked Bowen in the back, knocking him
down.

Bowen began to run toward a friend's car, he told the grand jury. He noticed
one of the men pull out a straight razor.

"I looked down and I saw the glare and it was a fairly long blade. And his face
is just, just blank. And he says, 'I'm going to cut you, nigger.' And he says,
'No, I'm going to kill you, nigger.' "

As he turned to get into the car, Bowen was slashed across his back by Douglas,
according to prosecutors.

"I heard my shirt rip," he said. "And then I turned around and looked. And they
were like, like stepped back and they were just looking at me."

Panicked, Bowen sprinted into the darkness.

"I thought I was going to die. I just wanted to find the main road," he said.

Prosecutors say the alleged skinheads chased him for a few steps, then turned
around and started walking back toward the party. Witnesses said they marched
in lock step, thumping their chests in a Nazi salute, screaming "Heil Hitler"
and singing German songs.

Scenes from the attack, prosecutors say, including the razor being drawn, were
captured on a video shot by someone at the party. Other images show several of
the alleged skinheads celebrating the assault.

But according to Bowen, the attack wasn't over. After being picked up by a
friend, he looked back and saw a truck speeding toward them.

"I could see hands out the side," said Bowen. "Just, like waving in the lights.
They were screaming, uh, 'Get him.' "

As they attempted to leave, the car became stuck in some soft sand. Bowen took
off on foot.

"I just ran. I ran straight," he said.

Bowen said he eventually reached a house where a rancher, after hearing the
story, grabbed a rifle from a closet and began to load it.

"He says, 'Which direction? Where are these people?,' " said Bowen. "And I
pointed and he went over there. And -- I, I passed out."

Bowen told grand jurors that doctors at Rancho Springs Medical Center in
Murrieta used more than 25 staples and stitches to close his five injuries,
including a 6-inch gash across his lower back.

* * *

Bad blood, or skin color? Zellerbach said the suspects planned the March 17
attack as retaliation for a fight between Bowen and a white man, Josh McGee, a
week before at a Carl's Jr. on Rancho California Road in Temecula.

Bowen testified to the grand jury that he pushed McGee down after McGee used a
racial slur at the fast-food restaurant. Three grand jury witnesses said Bowen
beat McGee.

No police report was taken. No charges were filed, fueling an accusation by
Fallbrook white supremacist Tom Metzger that hate crimes are only pursued when
nonwhites are assaulted by whites, not vice-versa.

"The one-sided application of the hate crime laws are what get me," said
Metzger . "They are almost always pursued against white people and usually
working-class white people."

Miskam's mother, Nancy, said the March 17 conflict between her son and Bowen
has more to do with bad blood than skin color. She said her four children and
the Bowen children have been fighting since junior high school.

"In seventh grade, Travis was suspended for fighting with one of the
daughters," said Miskam. "And then Wordell beat Travis up in the ninth grade.
This has been going on for years. If they did this, there should be
consequences for their actions. But, it's just a crime. It's not about race and
all that other stuff."

Zellerbach said there has been one fight between the two families, and neither
Travis Miskam nor Randy Bowen was involved.

"From the very beginning of the attack they were yelling racial epithets," the
case prosecutor said. "That tells you right there that this wasn't a personal
problem . . . between the skinheads and the victim. It was race related."

* * *

Unpopular politics But Miskam's attorney questions whether his client and other
members of the Western Hammerskins are being singled out for crimes because of
their beliefs.

"It's never popular to be a racist," said Morreale. "The question is, do they
have the right to be a racist? And, as disgusting as it sounds, the answer is
yes."

Morreale pointed out the grand jury, the main source of information about the
March 17 attack so far, is a lopsided presentation of the evidence in which
defense attorneys are not allowed to cross-examine witnesses.

"To some extent, the DA embellished the accusation," said Morreale. "I'm not
sure there's that much credible evidence putting my client at the scene with a
bottle in his hand."

Zellerbach says his case against the alleged skinheads isn't about free speech
or politics, it's about a crime. And, he says Miskam, McDaniel and Butler have
a history of violence.

Miskam and McDaniel were convicted of an early-morning 1996 assault in Orange
County on three white employees at a Ralph's supermarket. When arrested, Miskam
was awaiting trial in a Temecula assault case against then-19-year-old Kevin
Hirsch.

Police have described the assault on Hirsch, who is white, as
"skinhead-related." Neither Miskam nor McDaniel was charged with a hate crime.

When arrested earlier this year, Butler was awaiting trial on charges of
conspiracy to commit murder and transportation and sale of assault weapons.

Zellerbach said police are continuing to investigate the March 17 incident.

"I don't think we've been able to identify every member involved in the
assault," he said.

Black Belt Skin

unread,
Mar 5, 2001, 2:49:05 AM3/5/01
to
This story seems too far-fetched ot be real..it reads like that HORRIBLE
Chuck Connors movie from 1993 (I think) called "Skinheads- the second coming
of hate"...For instance:

> Prosecutors said Miskam appeared to lead the group, at one point yelling,
> "Skinheads, halt."

At one point in "Skinheads", the leader summons the group to their vehicle
(known as the Death Van, and emblazoned, not only with a BACKWARDS swastika,
but also with a circle A...cause we all know skins are all anarchists, enh?)
with a call of "To the death van, skinheads!"

> "Everybody just stopped. All of them, like, it was weird. It was just
like --
> it was like military style," Bowen told grand jurors. "And then he
(Miskam)
> says something else and then just, woooo, and they were just yelling,
'Nigger,
> nigger, nigger. We're coming.' "

the "skinheads" (who mostly look like bald trashy metalheads, and not
skins...torn up jeans and whatnot...no sharp look here) chase the "victims"
through the forest yelling about how they're gonna kill the mongrels... and
spouting off the lamest propaganda ive ever heard...


> Prosecutors say the alleged skinheads chased him for a few steps, then
turned
> around and started walking back toward the party. Witnesses said they
marched
> in lock step, thumping their chests in a Nazi salute, screaming "Heil
Hitler"
> and singing German songs.

Oh, COME ON! Do Nazis REALLY do this when they're about to beat someone up?
March in step and sing german songs? If they do, they're sad fuckin' people.
I mean, come on. Do what you do, but get rid of the dramatic bullshit. I
have alot of trouble believing it... can any of you racial skins confirm or
deny this?

> As they attempted to leave, the car became stuck in some soft sand. Bowen
took
> off on foot.
>
> "I just ran. I ran straight," he said.
>
> Bowen said he eventually reached a house where a rancher, after hearing
the
> story, grabbed a rifle from a closet and began to load it.

That's just too much.. This is almost EXACTLY what happens in that movie...
Their car crashes..they flee to the woods..they find a cabin..inhabited by
Chuck Connors of 50's television's "The Rifleman" fame... they get a rifle,
and fend off those damned fascists....

Alright I havent got the energy to comment on more of this story... but it
sounds pretty fabricated. It'd make a pretty entertainingly bad film,
though.
By the way, any of you guys ever seen the movie I'm talking about?

Jessica

unread,
Mar 5, 2001, 10:44:35 PM3/5/01
to
>===== Original Message From "Black Belt Skin" <blackb...@home.com> =====

>This story seems too far-fetched ot be real..it reads like that HORRIBLE
>Chuck Connors movie from 1993 (I think) called "Skinheads- the second coming
>of hate"...


>


>Oh, COME ON! Do Nazis REALLY do this when they're about to beat someone up?
>March in step and sing german songs?

Actually, all *I* do all day is march around and sing german songs. And I'm
not even a nazi. After all, isn't that what "Skin Heads" are supposed to
do?
:-)

<end sarcasm>

>Alright I havent got the energy to comment on more of this story... but it
>sounds pretty fabricated. It'd make a pretty entertainingly bad film,
>though.
>By the way, any of you guys ever seen the movie I'm talking about?
>

Hmm, I never got a chance. But the next time I'm at Blockbuster I've got to
check and see if they have it. I've been dying to see it since it came out.
>

Black Belt Skin

unread,
Mar 6, 2001, 1:46:19 AM3/6/01
to
Definitely do it... It's entertaining, much in the same way that bad horror
flicks, or TROMA Team films are entertaining..i.e. it sucks horribly.

BRUCE HILL

unread,
Mar 6, 2001, 4:39:00 AM3/6/01
to

Just out of interest, Kevin Costner's first roll was in a Troma film.

And i used to have the poster for ' Surf nazi's must die'.


Bruce... ( which i swapped, for a shirt with a picture
of the Kray twins ! )

( yea, i was still a dick in 89 )

SonOfOi

unread,
Mar 6, 2001, 6:49:32 AM3/6/01
to
Isn't Metzger the name of the wp skinhead from the book "American Skin"?

"Black Belt Skin" <blackb...@home.com> wrote in message
news:RxHo6.24483$K63.3...@news1.rdc1.ab.home.com...

Angelica

unread,
Mar 6, 2001, 11:35:23 AM3/6/01
to

Black Belt Skin <blackb...@home.com> wrote in message
news:RxHo6.24483$K63.3...@news1.rdc1.ab.home.com...
> I mean, come on. Do what you do, but get rid of the dramatic bullshit. I
> have alot of trouble believing it... can any of you racial skins confirm
or
> deny this?

Sounds like more propaganda... that reaminds me of a fight i got into a few
years back when i lived in Boston. Part of the police report included my
friend and I doing a "nazi salute" and goose-stepping off into the sunset.
Even the girls we fought with said that was rediculous.

>
> Alright I havent got the energy to comment on more of this story... but it
> sounds pretty fabricated. It'd make a pretty entertainingly bad film,
> though.
> By the way, any of you guys ever seen the movie I'm talking about?

It sounds EXACTLY like the film. Which I own, as a matter of fact... funny
movie!

Angelica

Angelica

unread,
Mar 6, 2001, 11:42:14 AM3/6/01
to

Jessica <kurt_a...@MailAndNews.com> wrote in message
news:3AA5...@MailAndNews.com...

> >===== Original Message From "Black Belt Skin" <blackb...@home.com>
=====

>


> Hmm, I never got a chance. But the next time I'm at Blockbuster I've got
to
> check and see if they have it. I've been dying to see it since it came
out.
> >

I bought it on half.com for five bucks... a little more than a rental but
considering I never get them back on time, it was cheaper that way! I'm not
sure blockbuster carries that, they don't carry a lot of stuff on account of
their whole "family oriented" image.

Angelica

>


Jessica

unread,
Mar 6, 2001, 9:02:47 PM3/6/01
to
>===== Original Message From "Angelica" <miss_v...@hotmail.com> =====

>I bought it on half.com for five bucks... a little more than a rental but
>considering I never get them back on time, it was cheaper that way!

Thanks! I bought one today from half.com, too. Went ahead and bought the
unrated Romper Stomper, too. What's the difference between the rated and
unrated versions?

I'm not
>sure blockbuster carries that, they don't carry a lot of stuff on account of
>their whole "family oriented" image.
>
>Angelica

Yeah, I was surprised they had Romper Stomper, actually, but I did see
Second
Coming of Hate at my grocery store video section a couple of years ago, so I
figured I'd give Blockbuster a try. But buying it for twice the rental
price
is worth it. I'm knocking one back for you tonight! Thanks!

Jessica

unread,
Mar 6, 2001, 9:06:33 PM3/6/01
to
>===== Original Message From "Black Belt Skin" <blackb...@home.com> =====
>Definitely do it... It's entertaining, much in the same way that bad horror
>flicks, or TROMA Team films are entertaining..i.e. it sucks horribly.

What an endorsement! Tell the truth--you work in sales and marketing, don't
you? And I'll be seeing it soon, I just ordered it.

SonOfOi

unread,
Mar 7, 2001, 1:30:59 PM3/7/01
to
The unrated includes the "graphic rape scene". I've never scene it, but
that was in a description I read of it.

"Jessica" <kurt_a...@MailAndNews.com> wrote in message

news:3AAC...@MailAndNews.com...

Jessica

unread,
Mar 7, 2001, 11:29:24 AM3/7/01
to
>===== Original Message From "SonOfOi" <HardcoreK...@hotmail.com> =====

>The unrated includes the "graphic rape scene". I've never scene it, but
>that was in a description I read of it.
>
Great. Thanks for the warning.
>

Angelica

unread,
Mar 7, 2001, 3:47:05 PM3/7/01
to

Jessica <kurt_a...@MailAndNews.com> wrote in message
news:3AAC...@MailAndNews.com...
> >===== Original Message From "Angelica" <miss_v...@hotmail.com> =====
>

> Thanks! I bought one today from half.com, too.

You're very welcome. But please don't blame the reccomendation when you see
what a horrible movie it is. I bought it for the sheer humor/entertainment
factor... it's too funny! I have seen lots of people go apeshit and get all
offended, but come on now, it's hilarious! And fits the description of the
original post, BTW.

Went ahead and bought the
> unrated Romper Stomper, too. What's the difference between the rated and
> unrated versions?

I don't really know, I think the sex scenes are more graphic in the unrated
version. I don't even know which one I have on video (got the DVD too!),
but it's funny that you should mention you got that too as I did the same
thing!

>
> Yeah, I was surprised they had Romper Stomper, actually, but I did see
> Second
> Coming of Hate at my grocery store video section a couple of years ago, so
I
> figured I'd give Blockbuster a try. But buying it for twice the rental
> price
> is worth it. I'm knocking one back for you tonight! Thanks!

Woohoo! Glad to be of assistance. We broke folk gotta get stuff as cheap
as possible, ya know. Another good place to look for stuff is mysimon.com,
you can find ANYTHING there, and they compare prices with online stores for
you so you can get it dirt cheap. They do have that skinhead street gangs
book listed that someone mentioned on here a while ago... interesting book
BTW (written by some cop in Michigan [I think?] who is supposed to be the
"expert" on skinhead gangs and is supposedly used as a guide by the police
to deal with skinheads. funny stuff!).

Enjoy the movies! And the beer!

Angelica

>


Jessica

unread,
Mar 8, 2001, 2:06:35 AM3/8/01
to
>===== Original Message From "Angelica" <miss_v...@hotmail.com> =====
>Jessica <kurt_a...@MailAndNews.com> wrote in message
>news:3AAC...@MailAndNews.com...
>> >===== Original Message From "Angelica" <miss_v...@hotmail.com> =====
>>
>
>> Thanks! I bought one today from half.com, too.
>
>You're very welcome. But please don't blame the reccomendation when you see
>what a horrible movie it is. I bought it for the sheer humor/entertainment
>factor... it's too funny! I have seen lots of people go apeshit and get all
>offended, but come on now, it's hilarious! And fits the description of the
>original post, BTW.

Now, I'm getting really curious and I can't wait to see it! I'm gonna
invite
all my friends over and hope they don't all hate me when it's done. I think
the trick will be to get everybody raucously drunk first.


>Woohoo! Glad to be of assistance. We broke folk gotta get stuff as cheap
>as possible, ya know.

That's right!


>They do have that skinhead street gangs
>book listed that someone mentioned on here a while ago... interesting book
>BTW (written by some cop in Michigan [I think?] who is supposed to be the
>"expert" on skinhead gangs and is supposedly used as a guide by the police
>to deal with skinheads. funny stuff!).

Most stuff written by outsiders is funny.

>
>Enjoy the movies!

I wll!

>And the beer!

I always do!
>
>Angelica

Jessica
>
>>
>

Angelica

unread,
Mar 8, 2001, 9:22:52 AM3/8/01
to

Jessica <kurt_a...@MailAndNews.com> wrote in message
news:3AB3...@MailAndNews.com...

>
> Now, I'm getting really curious and I can't wait to see it! I'm gonna
> invite
> all my friends over and hope they don't all hate me when it's done. I
think
> the trick will be to get everybody raucously drunk first.
>
Well, I don't know you, but you seem to be pretty easy-going... I've spoken
to people who have seen it and get all emotional and offended about the
movie, whining how "that's not how skinheads really are" and "they shouldn't
be portrayed this way" and "everyone should band together and spread the
truth," blah blah blah... But really if you watch it for a good laugh,
you'll get plenty.

"Clean and mean, baby!"

>
> Most stuff written by outsiders is funny.

This one describes skins like it's on a nature show or something. "If you
see them in their natural habitat, hanging out in front of a 7-11, approach
them slowly and with cautuion. These skinheads are highly aggressive and
will respond wiht extreme violence if they feel threatened. In short, don't
corner the beast; it may attack." LOL!

Angelica


Black Belt Skin

unread,
Mar 8, 2001, 12:56:59 PM3/8/01
to
Which one is this? Is it that "Skinhead Street Gangs" book?

Angelica

unread,
Mar 8, 2001, 4:32:18 PM3/8/01
to

Black Belt Skin <blackb...@home.com> wrote in message
news:LJPp6.38800$K63.4...@news1.rdc1.ab.home.com...

> Which one is this? Is it that "Skinhead Street Gangs" book?
That's the one!

So are you really a black belt, or do you just play one on the net?

Heheheh!
Angelica


Black Belt Skin

unread,
Mar 8, 2001, 8:35:31 PM3/8/01
to
Well, in reality I'm neither a black belt or a skin. I'm just an insecure
art fag who feels a need to pretend to be other things while online. Makes
me feel like I actually have a life. ;)
Nahh, yeah, I've had a black belt (in karate) for 3 and a half years... I
also do some kickboxing and jiu-jitsu. Martial arts has been a huge part of
my life for a long long time. I'd go nuts without it.

Angelica <miss_v...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:988u51$p8d$1...@taliesin.netcom.net.uk...

Jessica

unread,
Mar 8, 2001, 11:04:51 PM3/8/01
to
>===== Original Message From "Angelica" <miss_v...@hotmail.com> =====

>Well, I don't know you, but you seem to be pretty easy-going...

Aaaw, and here I've been trying to come off as a stone-cold bitch. Just
isn't
working, is it? :-)

>> Most stuff written by outsiders is funny.
>

>This one describes skins like it's on a nature show or something. "If you
>see them in their natural habitat, hanging out in front of a 7-11, approach
>them slowly and with cautuion. These skinheads are highly aggressive and
>will respond wiht extreme violence if they feel threatened. In short, don't
>corner the beast; it may attack." LOL!


That's the description I got, almost word for word, when I first saw skins
at
a show! Hehehe...

Jess

Angelica

unread,
Mar 12, 2001, 10:06:13 AM3/12/01
to

Black Belt Skin <blackb...@home.com> wrote in message
news:DrWp6.39403$K63.4...@news1.rdc1.ab.home.com...

I'm just an insecure
> art fag who feels a need to pretend to be other things while online. Makes
> me feel like I actually have a life. ;)

None of us would know someone like THAT, now would we. ;-)

> Nahh, yeah, I've had a black belt (in karate) for 3 and a half years... I
> also do some kickboxing and jiu-jitsu. Martial arts has been a huge part
of
> my life for a long long time. I'd go nuts without it.

Kewl. I was just wondering, is all. Cheers to that!

Angelica


Angelica

unread,
Mar 12, 2001, 10:09:06 AM3/12/01
to

Jessica <kurt_a...@MailAndNews.com> wrote in message
news:3AAE...@MailAndNews.com...

>
> Aaaw, and here I've been trying to come off as a stone-cold bitch. Just
> isn't
> working, is it? :-)

Well, sometimes I have to hide under my desk when reading your posts, but I
didn't want to admit that.

Angelica


Stephen Alexander

unread,
Mar 19, 2001, 4:10:03 PM3/19/01
to
this looks like an update on the same story... that other story was pretty
old....

http://www.inlandempireonline.com/news/updates/030101/pleas.shtml

Plea bargain reached in Temecula assault

The Press-Enterprise
RIVERSIDE


Three of six men accused of taking part in the racially-motivated attack on
a black man outside Temecula pleaded guilty Thursday to lessor charges in
Riverside Superior Court.

Daniel Glen Butler, Gregory Allen McDaniel, and Jason Mac McCully pleaded
guilty to assault with a deadly weapon and a hate crime charge in the March
1999 beating and slashing of Randy Wordell Bowen, 24, of Murrieta.

As part of a plea bargain, the three Temecula men face sentences of four
years each in state prison. Butler, 22, McDaniel, 21, and 19-year-old
McCully were originally charged with attempted murder and faced life
sentences if convicted.

Three other men have pleaded not guilty to attempted murder and hate crime
charges stemming from the attack, and are awaiting trial. They include
Travis George Miskam, 21, of Hemet; Alan Thomas Yantis, 21, and 19-year-old
Jesse David Douglas, both of Temecula.


Published 3/1/2001

Send comments to feed...@inlandempireonline.com

"Weiss Macht Byrd" <weissma...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010305022653...@ng-de1.aol.com...

0 new messages