Saline solution for acne?
Robert
I remember someone here posting a recipe for a salt water solution which he
or she claimed, when applied continuously to the skin, would dry up and
clear acne. Does anyone have this recipe or any experiences they can share
with this type of treatment? www.sageskincare.com lists sodium chloride as
a comedogenic mineral, so I am hesitant to try it. The only reason I'm
interested at all is that everyone I know who goes to the beach frequently
has beautiful skin. My friend recently spent three days in the Florida Keys
and came back with his skin clear. His acne was much worse than mine. My
job is very hot and humid, causing excess oil to build up on my face. I
usually spray cold Evian from a mist bottle on it to keep it cool and
counter this. I was thinking of putting some normal saline in there instead
and spraying that to mimic spending the day at the beach. Any thoughts?
(Besides the obvious.. which is that I have way too much time on my hands.)
Thanks in advance.
Robert
"If a depressed patient walked into his office and said that the
world was so grim that he could not face it, he had to treat him
as a sick man. Actually, the patient was right -- He no longer
had the normal illusions that keep us sane."
-- Gerold Frank
John Popelish
>
> Hi All
>
> I remember someone here posting a recipe for a salt water solution which he
> or she claimed, when applied continuously to the skin, would dry up and
> clear acne. Does anyone have this recipe or any experiences they can share
> with this type of treatment? www.sageskincare.com lists sodium chloride as
> a comedogenic mineral, so I am hesitant to try it. The only reason I'm
> interested at all is that everyone I know who goes to the beach frequently
> has beautiful skin. My friend recently spent three days in the Florida Keys
> and came back with his skin clear. His acne was much worse than mine. My
> job is very hot and humid, causing excess oil to build up on my face. I
> usually spray cold Evian from a mist bottle on it to keep it cool and
> counter this. I was thinking of putting some normal saline in there instead
> and spraying that to mimic spending the day at the beach. Any thoughts?
> (Besides the obvious.. which is that I have way too much time on my hands.)
> Thanks in advance.
A couple years ago, I went through the calculations to produce a
recipe for a good approximation of sea water. I found that it was
soothing and had a moisturizing effect on my skin, but I don't claim
that it cures acne or any other skin problems, though several people
tried it and reported that they liked its effects.
I keep mine in a spray bottle, and spritz a little on my skin after
bathing and drying off. Then I rub it around and blot off any
excess. Remember that every time you wash with plain water, that you
remove the natural salt content from the surface of your skin.
The recipe:
1 pint (1/2 liter) water
1 tablespoon salt (sodium chloride)
1 teaspoon epsom salt (magnesium sulfate)
This has about 99 % of the ionic content in ordinary sea water.
I make mine with pickling salt or rock salt, because ordinary table
salt is coated with an anti caking agent that makes the solution
cloudy (though I have no evidence that this makes the solution less
effective).
If you reapply it often to rinse your face, you will probably need to
use enough to completely wet your skin and dry off most of it with
something absorbent to remove accumulated oil and sweat, or the salt
will accumulate and get crusty and uncomfortable.
I am interested in hearing about your experience with this.
--
John Popelish
Robert
you posted.
mike89101
using the blue light treatment and applying an artificial sea water/saline
solution to the treated area.
mike89101
solution in order to enhance the antimicrobial effect and if this could give it
a boost as an acne treatment to be applied to the back and chest as it can
easily be splashed over large areas....
John Popelish
(snip)
> >The recipe:
> >1 pint (1/2 liter) water
> >1 tablespoon salt (sodium chloride)
> >1 teaspoon epsom salt (magnesium sulfate)
(snip)
>
> I wonder if this could be more effective if the salt is added to a H2O2
> solution in order to enhance the antimicrobial effect and if this could give it
> a boost as an acne treatment to be applied to the back and chest as it can
> easily be splashed over large areas....
>
I have no idea. But H2O2 is pretty unstable, and you may fizz all the
oxygen out of it when you try to dissolve salt in it. You may have
better luck dissolving the salt in part of the water volume (you may
have to make it hot and then cool it) and then bring the total volume
up with H2O2. But I have no idea how your skin would react to such a
mixture. If you try it, let us know what happened.
--
John Popelish
d@v3 m00s3-st@1n
>
> Hi All
>
> I remember someone here posting a recipe for a salt water solution which he
> or she claimed,
she! lmao
--
"> >actually i have increased my b5 dosage from 15 grams a day to a diet 100%
> >based on B5. I now only drink water
> >and eat B5. I'm thinking of eliminating the water from my diet as well..and
> >making a B5 juice to
> >drink(instead of water)"
John Popelish
>
> Robert wrote:
> >
> > Hi All
> >
> > I remember someone here posting a recipe for a salt water solution which he
> > or she claimed,
>
> she! lmao
You have laughed your ass off so often, I thought you must be assless
by now.
Do you put it back on with velcro?
--
John Popelish
Robert
person who posted the message. How did you interpret this in your
crack-rock induced stupor that made it so funny to you?
Kita
from a fish store (saltwater reef tanks). If I put the (kitchen) sea
salt in water, my reef tank inhabitants would not last two hours. Reef
tank salt crystals have many vitamin/minerals etc that is not found in
the kitchen sea salt.
Additional, the water should be RO, UV sterilized etc. But filtered
water with Kent Sea Salt for reef tanks would be ok for this purpose.
It IS sea water, not a half attempt at it. The bags of salt are not
expensive.
OR, you can buy a gallon of salt water (top quality, RO etc) from a
fish store for less than 2$ a gallon, ready made.
I wouldn't mess around with the kitchen stuff. Go buy a ten dollar bag
of reef tank sea salt and it will be far superior.
K
John Popelish
Have you looked into the actual mineral content of sea water? There
are no measurable vitamins in it. I appreciate your skepticism, but
you don't know much about what you are criticizing. Your fish would
do fine in the salt water I described. It is easily that close to the
real thing. Keep in mind that we are not talking about fish, but
human skin. And I agree that if you can easily buy sea salt, that
would be a fine way to make sea water. Not significantly different,
but fine.
However, if you are interested in an actual experiment, I suggest you
put actual sea water on one side of your face, and my recipe on the
other side for a month, and see if you can tell any difference. Of
course, to keep your biases out of the experiment, you would have to
have someone else put the two solutions in labeled containers that
would not give away their identity. Then, after your evaluation, they
could tell you which is which. Then you would have a data point worth
mentioning.
--
John Popelish
d@v3 m00s3-st@1n
you like thinking about my ass don't you?
lmao
lol
rotfflmfao
$!#^%&%*
d@v3 m00s3-st@1n
well i think it's funny calling JP a girl! Me and JP go way back like slavery..know what i mean :)
Kita
> are no measurable vitamins in it. I appreciate your skepticism, but
> you don't know much about what you are criticizing. Your fish would
> do fine in the salt water I described. It is easily that close to the
> real thing. Keep in mind that we are not talking about fish, but
> human skin. And I agree that if you can easily buy sea salt, that
> would be a fine way to make sea water. Not significantly different,
> but fine.
Obviously you are not familiar with reef tanks.
True, the minerals are minute. But due to cost, synthetic sea salts do
not include these minerals and vites. Additionally, calcium and
strontium are added to the sea salt mixes.
Furthermore, one could never use tap water for delicate reef tanks. If
you went into a reef store and told them you were using kitchen sea
salt, they would laugh at you and relish all the money they would make
when your livestock died constantly.
> However, if you are interested in an actual experiment, I suggest you
> put actual sea water on one side of your face, and my recipe on the
> other side for a month, and see if you can tell any difference. Of
> course, to keep your biases out of the experiment, you would have to
> have someone else put the two solutions in labeled containers that
> would not give away their identity. Then, after your evaluation, they
> could tell you which is which. Then you would have a data point worth
> mentioning.
I'm sorry you are so touchy about your recipe. However, I have no
doubt that your recipe is no match for reef tank quality sea salt.
None whatsoever. I would only test the theory if I thought there was a
sliver of possibility, which there isn't. People such as myself have
spent thousands of dollars on tanks and propagation. For you to
challenge the science is just silly. You don't test your salinity or
ph, and don't filter out all the carbon and lead etc from your recipe
water, I am assuming. Don't insult my intelligence just because you
feel threatened. Your recipe might work great, but it not a close
proximation of sea water.
As for fish vs. skin: true, keeping sps, inverts and fish is more
delicate a test than using it as a toner. But that wasn't my point. I
wasn't talk about the easiest way to make salt water, I was pointing
out the true way to make the closest man-made proximity of it. Trust
me, thousands of aquatic researchers and tank owners know more about
recreating salt water than you do.
Kita
John Popelish
(snip)
> As for fish vs. skin: true, keeping sps, inverts and fish is more
> delicate a test than using it as a toner.
Test of what? Are you saying that if fish don't like it, it can't
help your skin? Is that your argument? Do you test all products you
apply to your face on your salt water fish, first?
> But that wasn't my point. I wasn't talk about the easiest way to make salt water,
> I was pointing out the true way to make the closest man-made proximity of it.
My point was that once it is close enough, it doesn't matter for this
purpose. You seem certain that it is not close enough. I made up
that formula based on the actual concentrations of the 4 major ions
(sodium, chloride, magnesium and sulfate) present in sea water (that
account for about 99 % of the total) and even took the effort to test
what volumetric measurements were very close to the correct weight of
ingredients, since not everyone has a laboratory balance. It was a
lucky accident that it came out very close to common measures (pints,
tablespoons and teaspoons). Those were not wild guesses but the
result of careful calculation and measurement. I can send you the
Mathcad worksheet and sea water references I used to figure this out,
if you are interested.
> Trust me, thousands of aquatic researchers and tank owners know more about
> recreating salt water than you do.
> Kita
You win. What ever you do, please do not ever let any water touch
your skin if it is not actually certified sea water. My version has
none of the authentic heavy metals, pesticide residues and bacteria
that you would get from actual coastal water and you might suffer
their absence.
Sheesh. I try to help someone mix up some salt water to hydrate and
normalize their skin when they don't have a chance to bath in the
ocean, and I get a tongue lashing about killing pet fish.
(deep breath)
Now, you may have the last word on this. I have had my say (until I
think someone else might benefit from it).
--
John Popelish
Kita
> Kita wrote:
> (snip)
> > As for fish vs. skin: true, keeping sps, inverts and fish is more
> > delicate a test than using it as a toner.
>
> Test of what? Are you saying that if fish don't like it, it can't
> help your skin? Is that your argument? Do you test all products you
> apply to your face on your salt water fish, first?
-As I already said in the post you replied to: "Your recipe might work
great, but it not a close proximation of sea water."
-The "swimming in sea water helped my skin" issue has come up before.
If one wants to recreate Top Quality seawater at home, the best method
is to use reef tank salt. It is easy and cheap and comes as close as
humanly possible to recreate ocean water.
In a prior post, you wrote, "Your fish would do fine in the salt water
I described. It is easily that close to the real thing."
-Your ignorance on the subject caused me to elaborate.
-As for "test", that was your suggestion that I go through some
research to determine that your recipe is just as good for skin. I
think the onus is on you, for reef tank salt has passed standards that
your recipe has not. Considering I have hundreds of gallons of tank
salt water, and billions of gallons of nature's own seawater since i
live on the beach, I would never bother making your concoction just to
see if it was as good as what has already been developed for the
purpose of creating man made sea water.
>
> My point was that once it is close enough, it doesn't matter for this
> purpose. You seem certain that it is not close enough.
-I don't know how valuable the trace vites and minerals are (for face
use). I am quite certain that the salinity and pH are important,
though.
I made up
> that formula based on the actual concentrations of the 4 major ions
> (sodium, chloride, magnesium and sulfate) present in sea water (that
> account for about 99 % of the total) and even took the effort to test
> what volumetric measurements were very close to the correct weight of
> ingredients, since not everyone has a laboratory balance. It was a
> lucky accident that it came out very close to common measures (pints,
> tablespoons and teaspoons). Those were not wild guesses but the
> result of careful calculation and measurement. I can send you the
> Mathcad worksheet and sea water references I used to figure this out,
> if you are interested.
-I respect your diligence, but I don't know why you bothered when
there is already available reef seasalt that does the job better and
more easily.
> > Trust me, thousands of aquatic researchers and tank owners know more about
> > recreating salt water than you do.
> > Kita
>
> You win. What ever you do, please do not ever let any water touch
> your skin if it is not actually certified sea water. My version has
> none of the authentic heavy metals, pesticide residues and bacteria
> that you would get from actual coastal water and you might suffer
> their absence.
-Actually, it's the boat motor oil and gasoline that is the main
contaminent. I would never use actual sea water unless I collected it
a few miles offshore for my tanks.
> Sheesh. I try to help someone mix up some salt water to hydrate and
> normalize their skin when they don't have a chance to bath in the
> ocean, and I get a tongue lashing about killing pet fish.
>
-Any lashing was because you tried to prove you were right. I merely
added that reef salt was a product that was easily available and
superior. It was you that tried to argue your recipe was better
afterwards.
-You do have a lot of knowledge on some things. Unfortunately, you
seem rather closed to anyone who tries to add to what you believe. It
would behoove you to be a little more receptive to new information,
you might actually learn a little.
>
> Now, you may have the last word on this. I have had my say (until I
> think someone else might benefit from it).
-Recommend it until the cows come home.
Kita
Kita
watercure for another post. Just by using sea salt (that meant for
culinary or dietary use), as opposed to table salt, you are adding
close to 80 additional minerals or vites. I don't feel this is
preferable to marine salt, but it definitely beats the white stuff in
a shaker.
(Predominant elements in mg per 1/4 tsp in Celtic brand sea salt)
Chloride 601.25 mg 50.90%
Sodium 460 mg 33.00%
Sulfur 9.7 mg .820%
Magnesium 5.2 mg .441%
Potassium 2.7 mg .227%
Calcium 1.5 mg .128%
Silicon 1.2 mg .052%
Carbon 0.6 mg .049%
Iron 0.14 mg .012%
Aluminum 0.11 mg .0095%
Praseodymium 0.04 mg .0029%
Strontium 0.03 mg .00275%
Zinc 0.03 mg .00275%
Copper 0.02 mg .00195%
Erbium 0.02 mg .00195%
Tin 0.02 mg .00192%
Manganese 0.02 mg .0018%
Cerium 0.02 mg .00172%
Fluoride 0.01 mg .00109%
Rubidium 0.01 mg .00084%
Gallium 0.01 mg .00083%
Boron 0.01 mg .00082%
Titanium 0.01 mg .00079%
Bromine 0.01 mg .00071%
Kita
> that formula based on the actual concentrations of the 4 major ions
> (sodium, chloride, magnesium and sulfate) present in sea water (that
> account for about 99 % of the total)
Guess I will have the last three words (or posts rather), because
compared to sea salt as I just posted, I come up with 66%, not "about
99%".
John Popelish
>
> One more thing on table salt vs. sea salt, since I was looking up the
> watercure for another post. Just by using sea salt (that meant for
> culinary or dietary use), as opposed to table salt, you are adding
> close to 80 additional minerals or vites. I don't feel this is
> preferable to marine salt, but it definitely beats the white stuff in
> a shaker.
I recommended a combination of two salts, not just the white stuff in
a shaker.
(line from next post added)
> Guess I will have the last three words (or posts rather), because
> compared to sea salt as I just posted, I come up with 66%, not "about
> 99%".
Maybe not.
You dragged me back in with your mystery math.
The first 4 items in this list add up to (50.9%+33%+.82%+.44%)= 85.16%
not 66%.
I can't figure out where 66% came from. Care to clarify that?
But the list is not not the ions, but elements. If the sulfur is
replaced by the sulfate ion (SO4, which is a lot heavier and is the
form of almost all the sulfur in sea water and the form of sulfur in
epsom salt) this fraction is a little bit higher.
But the big problem with this list is that the total of everything
listed is not 100%. I suspect that the missing mass is water, locked
up im many of the crystal forms of these salts. But that water does
nothing to make up the total salt content.
If I add up all the weights of the elements listed (feel free to check
my math), since these make up just about all the ionic content of salt
water made from this stuff, I get a total weight of 1082.66 mg. If I
calculate percentages of these elements based on that total weight
(leaving out the water weight in the 1/4 teaspoon of this stuff), the
first 4 items come out to be:
Chloride 601.25 mg 55.5% of 1082.66 mg
Sodium 460 mg 42.5% of 1082.66 mg
Sulfur 9.7 mg 0.896% of 1082.66 mg
> Magnesium 5.2 mg 0.48% of 1082.66 mg
These 4 percentages add up to 99.38% of the total. And, if the sulfur
was replaced with the sulfate ion, this would be a little higher. My
memory was pretty good, after all.
If you use tap water instead of distilled water to make the mix, you
are probably over weighted in calcium, since most tap water is
normally a lot higher in calcium than natural salt water is. If you
want to add the potassium you add a pinch of salt substitute
(potassium chloride) to the mix.
Besides, I already agreed with you earlier that actual sea salt (or
your reef aquarium salt) is fine, if you can get it. But almost
anybody anywhere can get table salt and epsom salt very cheaply, and
these two chemicals provide most (if 99.38% qualifies as most) of what
is in sea water. Whether you believe it or not, not everyone has
handy access to reef aquarium supplies. I was not giving you grief or
arguing with your claim that sea salt would work well, only that it is
not *practically* different. You made that claim, and I saw no
justification for it.
We are not talking about the result of this solution in isolation in
some delicate chemical reaction, but its effect when mixed with all
the stuff that is already in and on your skin. Besides, I have no
idea that actual sea water is the perfect addition to skin, only that
it has an ancient reputation for having *some* positive effect. Who
knows if some variation is actually a lot better? You and I certainly
don't, so quibbling about trace elements is sort of silly. They
*certainly* have nothing to do with the moisturizing effect (which is
based on the hydroscopic effect of the two main salts).
Do you have a theory that supports your opinion that these traces have
some specific benefit (not to fish but to faces)? State it. Support
it. Please.
--
John Popelish
Kita
not 66%.
Those numbers are for sea salt (kitchen use). Reef salt is even
better, but I came across the kitchen sea salt so I used that. That
(kitchen use sea salt) is just as easily purchased as table salt, so
why not use that instead? (why leave out the other 70some trace
elements?)
Reef salt is sold in just about every town. And for a dollar, one
could buy pure (not tap water) pH and salinity correct water from a
fish store. That is the easiest solution of all. It's ready to use,
and doesnt' have contaminents from tap or cheap-filtered water. How
are you measuring your salinity and pH? A recipe does not take into
account the differences in water used (and temp for dissolving),
unless you have a specific gravity meter and a pH meter. While
certainly many aspect of the water are not as important in topical
skin use, both pH and salinity would be important.
As for the importance of trace elements. Beats me, I'm not
recommending the treatment. I am just offering the easiest and best
way to recreate sea water. You are offering a recipe that creates salt
water with less vitamins and minerals, and more contaminents. You are
offering less than is available, yet want me to prove the value of
that which you leave out?
As said, your solution might be great for some people. I am not
arguing your invention. I am just explaining that a product exists
that has already done the work in recreating sea water that upholds to
the greatest possible standards. One could fill their spray bottle in
the fish store for probably 50 cents. If someone wants to make their
own, power to them.
Kita
John Popelish <jpop...@rica.net> wrote in message news:<3D4C69EE...@rica.net>...