Tight-turning trucks for longboards?
Nick Corea
For those who actually care about turning radius... Which trucks turn
the most?
It used to be Indian Chromolly Trucks, or Motobuilt trucks turned the
tightest, and Indys were the next best thing. Thunders and Ventures were
close , and Trackers didn't turn at all.
I see that Grind King makes trucks... and now there are Titans. Does
anyone out there know how well these turn?
For those who don't know; The turning radius of trucks is determined by
the angle of the hanger's pivot. When the trucks are nice and loose, the
hanger rotates inside of that "hole" in the baseplate. That rotational
axis is designed into the truck. As the designed axis is angled away
from the kingpin (away from the center of the board), the turning radius
of the trucks will be increased. There are a few manufacturers that make
special riser pads that are taller on one end than the other. A skater
can then install the riser to either decrease the turning radius (vert
or highspeed downhill) or increase the carving, squirrely-ness (funky,
soulful, slappy-grinding, street). If the "hanger hole" was to point
straight down, into the street, that would be MAXIMUM turning... this
can't be done, the response would be bizarre, not to mention a bit
stress-full for the baseplate.
Anyway... On my longboard, the wheelbase is around 42", I have
"homebuilt" angled risers and a pair of promotional, first run (last
run?) Indian Chromolly trucks, scammed from the 1990 Action Sports
Retailer Convention... needless to say, they are finally on they're last
turns. I'd like to put new trucks on the deck, preferably trucks that
turn even more than Indys.
Please let me know what you think, which trucks turn best out of what's
made today.... or where I could get my hands on pair of Motobuilt or
Indian trucks. (AS IF!!)
Thanx,
Nick Corea
nco...@ea.com
--
LEGO: TO++(6484) SP++(497) CA++3 PI+++2(6286) AQ++ TC+++1(8880) LS++ Hap
YB1968M
Paul
Nick Corea wrote:
> Please let me know what you think, which trucks turn best out of what's
> made today.... or where I could get my hands on pair of Motobuilt or
> Indian trucks. (AS IF!!)
Hey... Longboarder in the house. What you ridin man? So the go for
trucks these days seems to be indy's and Randalls. My friend Richard
would back up Randalls, my friend Steve would yell Indy's. I have only
ridden Indy's myself but I am dying to get my hands on soem Seismics.
They have a radical new truck design with springs and shit. Richard
already received a sample-pair and he digs em the most for surf-style
cruisin but he'll tell you that himself probably. I am still waiting on
a pair of Seismics promised to me ages ago. They are made in Germany but
the company that sells em is in the US. I am supposed to get a pair
factory direct but the Germans just dont know what working is.
Check out: http://www.interlnk.net/longboard/default.asp
Paul.
>
> Thanx,
>
> Nick Corea
Carsten Stengel
Hallo!
Paul <ea...@concepts.REMOVE-THIS.nl> wrote:
>factory direct but the Germans just dont know what working is.
Yo! The prob of us is, that we all the day smoke pott and talk about
revolution on work! After the work we watch TV that destroy our brain!
%-D))
I`m lucky that i have no work! So i watch all the day TV! :-)
Love&Peace&smoke Pott
Carsten
P.S.: :-) means Humor, %-D)) means silly joke!
--
Please be sorry with my english, but know that my korean is more bad!
Kam sa hamni da!
Maciej Matthew Matyjas
Excerpts from netnews.alt.skate-board: 20-May-97 Tight-turning trucks
for lo.. by Nick Co...@ea.com
> For those who don't know; The turning radius of trucks is determined by
> the angle of the hanger's pivot. When the trucks are nice and loose, the
> hanger rotates inside of that "hole" in the baseplate. That rotational
> axis is designed into the truck. As the designed axis is angled away
> from the kingpin (away from the center of the board), the turning radius
> of the trucks will be increased. There are a few manufacturers that make
> special riser pads that are taller on one end than the other. A skater
> can then install the riser to either decrease the turning radius (vert
> or highspeed downhill) or increase the carving, squirrely-ness (funky,
> soulful, slappy-grinding, street). If the "hanger hole" was to point
> straight down, into the street, that would be MAXIMUM turning... this
> can't be done, the response would be bizarre, not to mention a bit
> stress-full for the baseplate.
>
i've always wondered about this stuff, and so I'm gonna ask you a
couple questions, if thats okay:
1. (this is just to figure out if i understood the above correctly>
The more vertical the pivot (part of hanger that goes into pivot
cushion?) the more the trucks turn?
2. The typical way to get trucks to turn more is to loosen them, how
does that relate to the above?
3. Is turning more the same as turning quickly?(In snowboard
terms->something like a real deep sidecut?)
thanks in advance.
.maciej
Nick Corea
Maciej Matthew Matyjas wrote:
> i've always wondered about this stuff, and so I'm gonna ask you a
> couple questions, if thats okay:
>
> 1. (this is just to figure out if i understood the above correctly>
> The more vertical the pivot (part of hanger that goes into pivot
> cushion?) the more the trucks turn?
The hangar turns about an axis. This axis isn't directly determined by
the kingpin. The axis is determined by the angle of that hole with the
grommet in it. The hanger sits in that hole, and rotates. This axis
cannot be parallel to the ground, this would result in no turning at
all. If that axis is adjusted to be more perpendicular to the ground,
you get more turning.
OK... make a fist with your right hand and plant your right elbow onto
the desk.( like you're gonna arm wrestle). imagine that, in your fist,
you hold the axle. Now... the desk is like an upside down deck /
baseplate. Twisting your fist around it's axis (your arm) is like the
action of a truck hanger. (Keep your elbow locked to the table) As you
move your fist left and closer to the table, the twisting
"fist-with-axle" provides less and less turning component in relation to
the ground plane. If you move your fist up and to the right, the
twisting fist provides more and more turning component in relationship
to the ground. If you do this with both arms, opposite each other, to
simulate two trucks turning at the same time (thumbs toward each other,
then pinkies) you can see the result. Higher fists... more turning
component.... lower fists... less turning...
>
> 2. The typical way to get trucks to turn more is to loosen them, how
> does that relate to the above?
Well, the above stuff doesn't take into account the kingpin... the
kingpin does a number of things:
~ It keeps the hanger in place - from escaping side to side, AND from
comming right off. The strength of the kingpin is very important. As
your 100-200lb body leans on the board, ALOT of wieght is focused on
only two of these poor little guys.
~ It holds the rubber cushions. These are your suspension system and
turning dampeners. It's threaded and nutted, so it allows you to tighten
the suspension, and stiffen up the turning... Obviously, the tighter the
bolt, the less the truck turns... This is for two reasons... the tighter
you crank 'em down, the lower the pivot angle (the twist-o-fist) so they
turn a little less. But the REAL reason is because it increases the
friction on the part of the hanger that sits between the grommets. Also,
those rubber cushions only have so much give... as you tighten the
trucks, you "use-up" the "play". Soft bushings have more "play"
available than the hard ones. The harder it is to move the hanger, the
less you'll turn, for the same given lean. So, yes, the most basic way
to increase the turning of the trucks, is to loosen up the kingpin nut.
But the truck can only turn as far as the geometry (answer #1) will let
it. If your trucks are totally squirley and loose, and you still don't
turn enough, it's time for a change in geometry. You can change that by
raising or lowering one end of the truck. They make risers that do that
for you... Also... the closer your trucks are together, the tighter your
skate will turn. (this is why I need the tightest made... 40" wheelbase)
>
> 3. Is turning more the same as turning quickly?(In snowboard
> terms->something like a real deep sidecut?)
~ Yup! The sidecut depth and radius is like the truck geometry
(hardwired potential), and the board flex is like the tightness of your
kingpin/bushings (percentage of turn per force given)!!!
>
> thanks in advance.
>
> .maciej
Hey, I hope this was helpful.... I used to work at Val Surf in LA
area... I used to love to play "Mr. Wizard" with customers. I'm pretty
sure of my info, I used to speak to several manufacturers, but I could
be wrong. This is just what I've learned and pieced together over the
years.
Take it easy,
Nick
Paul
Nick Corea wrote:
> This is just what I've learned and pieced together over the
> years.
Excellent explanation Nick. It looks like its all right. Can you also
explain what effect the widthness of trucks have on carving?
Thanks alot.
Richard Jones
In article <33831A...@concepts.REMOVE-THIS.nl>,
ea...@concepts.REMOVE-THIS.nl wrote:
>Nick Corea wrote:
>> Please let me know what you think, which trucks turn best out of what's
>> made today.... or where I could get my hands on pair of Motobuilt or
>> Indian trucks. (AS IF!!)
>
hey theres only two choices here :
If you want downhill speed and tight turning (better turning radius than
any normal truck and NO SPEED WOBBLES at all) then you want RANDAL TRUCKS
If yo are into longboard street cruising and want ULTRA tight turning
trucks with super responsiveness then SEISMICS are the go
Just choose which one
Rich
Nick Corea
Cool, Paul, (I sent my explaination to an engineer buddy of mine to
confirm my assumptions) :^)
About truck width's effects on carving... hmmm
The board discribes a given arc from the combined truck angles. No
matter what, the board's turning radius is always measured from the
center of the trucks, to the convergence of the lines that the axles
discribe.
On graph paper, you can draw two axles (parallel vertical lines),
across from each other, with pivot points at the centers. Rotate
(redraw) the left axle twenty degrees counter-clockwise, and the right
axle 20 degrees clockwise. Extend the axle lines down the page until
they cross. The distance from this point to the axle pivot points
(equal distances) is the turning radius of this "truck set". If you have
a compass, you can draw out the resulting curve. You can draw "wheels"
on the "axles" at any point. As long as each pair is centered on the
axle pivot point, there should be no effect on the "skateboard's"
turning radius.
So from this analysis of the geometry, it looks like there is no
difference on turning radius, no matter how wide your trucks are. If you
had two boards, with the same wheelbase, duplicate turning-geometry
trucks, and the same tightness/bushing hardness... but one has trucks 10
inches wide, and the other's trucks are 8 inches... they should turn, or
carve, the same.
But there are other factors to consider. The wider your trucks are, the
better "footing" the board has. Wider is better for traction, and good
traction allows you to lean further befor breaking free... thus more
carvability. Also, for the same given "lean", your wheels move a further
distance through their arc, on wider trucks. If this arc was restricted
to the axis discribed in the our "drawing" (a vertical axis), this would
not be a problem. But, the wheels also travel up and down (a horizontal
axis from front to back) when you lean. So... the wider your trucks are,
the more the wheels need to travel in order to achieve the same corner.
This means that the wider trucked skateboard needs higher risers to keep
the wheels from hitting the bottom of the deck. If the wheels hit the
deck... they aren't going to turn as far as they could have.
I used to think that narrower trucks turned more... were more
squirrely. But after thinking about the math, and drawing it out on
paper. It looks like they potentially turn the same all things equal
(asside from risers) :^)
This is fun...
see ya',
Nick Corea