Who Didn't Clap or Stand for Elia Kazan at Oscars?
ri...@telecom.com
clap for Elia Kazan at Oscars? Actually, three lists: those who
stood and clapped, those who only clapped, those who neither stood nor
clapped.
AE3
Neither clap nor stand: Nolte and Ed Harris
Didn't stand but clapped: Spielberg
This according to AP.
Xeedy
Ed Harris and wife
Nick Nolte and wife
Sitting and clapping:
Spielberg and wife
Jim Carey (sitting next to Ed Harris, and looking extremely uncomfortable)
Billy Bob Thorton and Laura Dern
Standing and clapping:
Debbie Allen
Goldie Hawn and Kurt Russell
Karl Malden, Warren Beatty (surprise)
Kathy Bates, Meryl Streep, Helen Hunt
I couldn't recognize the others.
Shawn50273
Standing o's: Warren Beatty and Debbie Allen.
-----------
Shawn
glas
news:36f5c83e...@news.earthlink.net...
| Will somebody help me out? My eyes are bad. Who refused to stand or
| clap for Elia Kazan at Oscars? Actually, three lists: those who
| stood and clapped, those who only clapped, those who neither stood nor
| clapped.
Steven Spielberg and Kate Capshaw clapped but did not stand
Nick Nolte and his babe didn't clap or stand
Gwenyth Paltrow and Kathy Baker clapped and stood up
glas
King Daevid MacKenzie, UltimaJock!
since I thought Harris was a conservative)...
--
King Daevid MacKenzie, UltimaJock! (opinions expressed solely his)
heard on WSBC/WCFJ Chicago-WAUK/WAUX Milwaukee-WSUW Whitewater
ultim...@hotmail.com http://come.to/ultimajock
"If I've offended you in any way, you needed it." ROBIN TYLER
Cynthia C.
Ditto Amy Madigan and Ed what's-his-name
I'm sure there were others, but I can't recall who they were.
______
ri...@telecom.com wrote in message <36f5c83e...@news.earthlink.net>...
Font of All Important Info
mysterious forces to say:
>>
>>Will somebody help me out? My eyes are bad. Who refused to stand or
>>clap for Elia Kazan at Oscars? Actually, three lists: those who
>>stood and clapped, those who only clapped, those who neither stood nor
>>clapped.
>>
>>
>
>Neither clap nor stand: Nolte and Ed Harris
>Didn't stand but clapped: Spielberg
>
>This according to AP.
as i put in my longer Oscar post about who i noticed: stood & clapped:
Warren Beatty, Karl Malden, Kathy Bates, Kurt Russell, Lynn Redgrave.
not clapping: Ed Harris & Amy Madigan and Nick Nolte & Vicki Lewis.
Nolte had a pretty sour look on his face. sitting & clapping: Jim
Carrey, Steven Spielberg, and a whole bunch of others, many of whom
looked like they were only being polite, but who could tell since the
camera panned by them so fast...
dez
asgtpr #60a
....a pistol-hot cup of Dez...
"Chef of chicanery, your buns are mine!"
--the Tick
Lewis Angel
Lewis
ri...@telecom.com wrote in message <36f5c83e...@news.earthlink.net>...
MLYoung
>since I thought Harris was a conservative)...
I think he just plays 'em. It's the
crewcut. I was sort of hoping he'd
win for Truman Show, though it was
nice Coburn won.
--margaret
lwt...@webtv.net
>Sitting, angry and not clapping:
>Ed Harris and wife
>Nick Nolte and wife
These couples were really over doing the pissed off look. Especially the
women.
>Sitting and clapping:
>Spielberg and wife
>Jim Carey (sitting next to Ed Harris, and
>looking extremely uncomfortable) Billy Bob
>Thorton and Laura Dern
I think Jim was too scared to stand up with those angry couples next to
him.
Scott
Elaine Gallant
Well, here's an issue ya can't go wrong with. Plenty of attention no matter
what they did.
Shawn50273 wrote in message
<19990322005519...@ng-ce1.aol.com>...
>>>Will somebody help me out? My eyes are bad. Who refused to stand or
>>>clap for Elia Kazan at Oscars? Actually, three lists: those who
>>>stood and clapped, those who only clapped, those who neither stood nor
>>>clapped.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Neither clap nor stand: Nolte and Ed Harris
>>Didn't stand but clapped: Spielberg
>
Peep...@webtv.net
>What about those who stood but refused
>to clap?
Hemmorhoids?
Hugs,
Janice, who didn't notice any non-clapping standees.
--------------------------------------
"The president has added more death-penalty crimes than any of his
predecessors. He's enacted a welfare reform that not only cancels an
entitlement but also takes away rights from a certain caste of women. He
pushed through NAFTA, which undermines the position of American workers.
If there's a right-wing conspiracy, it's Bill Clinton." -- Gwendolyn
Mink, the author of Welfare's End.
--------------------------------------
(-)> *peep* (-)> *peep* (-)> *muckmouth*
Peep...@webtv.net
THIS gal thought it was SO touching when they kissed Elia -- & esp. when
Marty laid his head on Elia's shoulder for a sec & smiled.
Sap-hugs,
Janice
DNA409
Yes, I don't think anyone held their clapping hands higher than Debbie
Allen. I believe in morse code she was clapping out something to the effect of:
"see Academy, I'm a team player! Please let me choreograph this show next year
as well!"
Neil...your little choo choo
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/dna409/
"Pink is the navy blue of India"- Diana Vreeland
"Wear your green cornflakes with pride"-Dolly Parton
Jamie
> Standing and clapping:
> Debbie Allen
> Goldie Hawn and Kurt Russell
> Karl Malden, Warren Beatty (surprise)
Beatty came out in favor of Kazan at the start of the controversy.
I think they're friends (Kazan having directed Beatty in Slendor
in the Grass).
I actually liked the clips they showed for Kazan better than the
ones they showed for Kubrick. Other than 2001 and Strangelove,
I'm not a big Kubrick fan, but overall I thought the clip job
done for him was done poorly. Not the best moments from his films,
and the clips seemed too short. With Kazan's retrospective I thought
they chose some scenes that were great, but that weren't scenes
that everybody practically had memorized (like showing those two
extended scenes of "On the Waterfront" instead of showing the
whole "coulda been a contender" car scene for the gazillionth time.)
--
~Jamie
David
news:19990322005354...@ng29.aol.com...
> Sitting, angry and not clapping:
> Ed Harris and wife
> Nick Nolte and wife
>
> Spielberg and wife
> Jim Carey (sitting next to Ed Harris, and looking extremely uncomfortable)
> Billy Bob Thorton and Laura Dern
>
> Debbie Allen
I'm surprised she didn't try to work in a dance number.
--
| Looking for a flame-war free *FUN* newsgroup? Try alt.culture.fabulous
| ASG FAQ: http://www.showbuzznet.com/asg/faq.htm
| Anti-FAQ http://www.showbuzznet.com/asg/antifaq.htm
| If you're someone I want to hear from, you'll figure out how to e-mail me
AniSaerah
Saerah
Peep...@webtv.net
year-old?!
What's his domestic situation ....... ?
Hugs, Janice
CJay
>
> Sitting, angry and not clapping:
> Ed Harris and wife
> Nick Nolte and wife
>
> Sitting and clapping:
> Spielberg and wife
> Jim Carey (sitting next to Ed Harris, and looking extremely uncomfortable)
> Billy Bob Thorton and Laura Dern
>
> Standing and clapping:
> Debbie Allen
> Karl Malden, Warren Beatty (surprise)
>
> I couldn't recognize the others.
Add Lynn Redgrave and Geoffrey Rush (is that his name?) to those
who stood and clapped.
CJay
David
Lewis Angel <ange...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:eQ1DUsCd#GA.232@upnetnews05...
> What about those who stood but refused to clap?
>
> Lewis
>
>
> ri...@telecom.com wrote in message
<36f5c83e...@news.earthlink.net>...
Peep...@webtv.net
>(is that his name?) to those who
>stood and clapped.
Lynn was clapping AS wildly as Debbie Allen.
J.
Timothy Johnson
insignificant of all those standing and clapping) for your venom - Like I said,
you need to check yourself.
David wrote:
> Xeedy <xe...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:19990322005354...@ng29.aol.com...
> > Sitting, angry and not clapping:
> > Ed Harris and wife
> > Nick Nolte and wife
> >
> > Sitting and clapping:
> > Spielberg and wife
> > Jim Carey (sitting next to Ed Harris, and looking extremely uncomfortable)
> > Billy Bob Thorton and Laura Dern
> >
> > Standing and clapping:
> > Debbie Allen
>
David
on her talent for self-promotion. Now calling her insignificant... that's
venomous.
As for needing to "check myself," nope, you said that to Xeedy, not me, and
Xeedy isn't the one who made the crack about Allen.
Perhaps you'd be so kind as to furnish us with a complete list of celebs who
can't be criticized. So far it seems to be:
Debbie Allen
Whoopi Goldberg
Louis Farrakan
Whitney Houston
Mariah Carey
And the ones we can still slag:
Nick Nolte
Demi Moore
Barbara Walters
Diane Sawyer
Timothy Johnson <ti...@HiWAAY.net> wrote in message
news:36F63657...@HiWAAY.net...
PowerLib
>From: ri...@telecom.com
>Date: Sun, Mar 21, 1999 23:37 EST
>Message-id: <36f5c83e...@news.earthlink.net>
>
>Will somebody help me out? My eyes are bad. Who refused to stand or
>clap for Elia Kazan at Oscars? Actually, three lists: those who
>stood and clapped, those who only clapped, those who neither stood nor
>clapped.
Planning to start your own blacklist? ;-) I refuse to answer this question on
the grounds that it might tend to incriminate me.
****************************
Take away the "nospam" to email.
Shawn50273
>>(is that his name?) to those who
>>stood and clapped.
>
>Lynn was clapping AS wildly as Debbie Allen.
>
>J.
On the post-awards show, Sir Ian McKellan admitted to "observing the
theatricality" of the whole moment. After a bit of arm-twisting, he said that
he didn't applaud.
-----
Shawn
("I want everyone to know that I'm NOT with Monica(Lewinsky)! I'm lagging
behind so that we won't be seen going in together!"--Bridget Fonda at last
night's Vanity Fair party)
Janloves
>From: lwt...@webtv.net
>Date: 3/22/99 1:16 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <25044-36...@newsd-221.iap.bryant.webtv.net>
>
>xeedy wrote:
>
>>Sitting, angry and not clapping:
>
>>Ed Harris and wife
>
>>Nick Nolte and wife
>
>women.
>
>
>
>>Spielberg and wife
>
>>Jim Carey (sitting next to Ed Harris, and
>>looking extremely uncomfortable) Billy Bob
>>Thorton and Laura Dern
>
>him.
>
>Scott
>
@-Janloves-<-<-<
Please visit my poetry page at:
http://members.aol.com/Janloves/Poetry.html
New work added 3/20/99.
Please sign my guestbook.
Thanks
MariceD
>year-old?!
>
>What's his domestic situation ....... ?
He was married, but I seem to recall that a couple of years ago he turned his
wife in to the Secret Police and she disappeared.
(Actually, I don't care one way or the other about the Kazan controversy, but I
couldn't resist...)
PowerLib
>brat was probably about two when all that happened with Kazan!
No, she was 76 years old at the time. It's all that wonderful plastic surgery.
RobynR22
>brat was probably about two when all that happened with Kazan!
Maybe someone in her family got nailed by Kazan's finger-pointing. Ever
consider that?
Robyn
Janloves
>Date: 3/22/99 11:17 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <19990322111724...@ng-ca1.aol.com>
Communist Party you were considered a communist. Sounds logical to me. Why
else belong? It was considered a threat to the security of this country. It was
a product of the times we lived in. And it scared people. Ever consider that?
Jan
Jim Murtha
to ensure his own career----Larry Parks, John Garfield, Zero Mostel etc.
none of whom could work in Hollywood for many years. All their names
should be honored at some future awards.
jim
"This is GOD's Country!" roared Tom (the hammer) Delay from the House
floor.
JLeon2001
Oh, and good heavens! We mustn't SCARE the wrong people, must we?
--Jesse Leon McCann, comics and children's book writer-guy
next up from me: Simpsons #43, Smiley The Psychotic Button's Wacky Wrestling
Special, Animanics! #52, Insane Clown Posse #1,
Extreme Scooby: The Ultimate Scooby Trivia Book from Scholastic
JLeon2001
They wanted two tough guys up there, in case anybody tried to rush the stage.
Trish
Jim Carrey clapped, no stand
Ed Harris and Amy Madigan - no clap or stand
Nick Nolte and sitcom girlfriend - no clap or stand
CLAPPED AND STOOD
Carl Maldan
Kathy Bates
Warren Beatty
Meryl Streep
Debbie Allen
Robert DeNiro and Martin Scorsese in this group, as well.
Many, many more, but the camera went to fast
Can't remember the rest
Trish
ri...@telecom.com wrote in article <36f5c83e...@news.earthlink.net>...
Michelle M.
>>
>>Will somebody help me out? My eyes are bad. Who refused to stand or
>>clap for Elia Kazan at Oscars? Actually, three lists: those who
>>stood and clapped, those who only clapped, those who neither stood nor
>>clapped.
>>
>>
>
>Neither clap nor stand: Nolte and Ed Harris
>Didn't stand but clapped: Spielberg
>
>This according to AP.
Stood and clapped with her lips parted and her eyes ever so misty:
Goldie Hawn. No, wait, she did that all night long.
Michelle
If you've got a blacklist, I wanna be on it. -Billy Bragg
soyle...@hotmail.com
ri...@telecom.com wrote:
> Will somebody help me out? My eyes are bad. Who refused to stand or
> clap for Elia Kazan at Oscars? Actually, three lists: those who
> stood and clapped, those who only clapped, those who neither stood nor
> clapped.
Tough for the lists because of camera positions and (possibly intentional)
fast sweep.
According to those in attendance, depending on where they were seated,
somewhere between 50 and 80 percent of the audience did not stand. Most of
those standing were in the front.
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Kahlua Morganstern
DNA409 held forth:
> Yes, I don't think anyone held their clapping hands higher than Debbie
>Allen.
Because it was the only close-up she's had in ten years.
Kahlua Morganstern
>as i put in my longer Oscar post about who i noticed: stood & clapped:
Ian McKellen and about 3/4s of the audience. Not counting Sally Kirkland,
of course.
dar
<sex...@sexshare.com> wrote:
Sally Kirkland has the clap??!
Finally, back to the gossip ...
dar
--
Will play tennis for food.
MLYoung
>>Maybe someone in her family got nailed by Kazan's finger-pointing. Ever
>>consider that?
>>
>>Robyn
>>
>
> You mean they were communists? In those days if you belonged to the
>Communist Party you were considered a communist. Sounds logical to me. Why
>else belong? It was considered a threat to the security of this country. It
>was
Ever consider that several of the people
blacklisted were never members of the
communist parties and that several who
were hadn't belonged in 15 years?
And the threat, even at the time, was
considered dubious by many. Of course,
protesting the blacklist was a great way
to *get* blacklisted.
Also, belonging to the Communist Party
is perfectly legal. So, basically, people were blacklisted for doing something
perfectly legal 15 years earlier.
--margaret
>Jan
>
>@-Janloves-<-<-<
> Please visit my poetry page at:
> http://members.aol.com/Janloves/Poetry.html
> New work added 3/20/99.
> Please sign my guestbook.
> Thanks
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Subject: Re: Who Didn't Clap or Stand for Elia Kazan at Oscars?
>Path: lobby!newstf02.news.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
>From: janl...@aol.com (Janloves)
>Newsgroups: alt.showbiz.gossip
>Lines: 26
>NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder05.news.aol.com
>X-Admin: ne...@aol.com
>Date: 22 Mar 1999 16:52:22 GMT
>Organization: AOL
neura...@my-dejanews.com
Communists? Stalin had killed 30 million people and at that very
moment there were thousands dying in labor camps. I suspect if Kazan
had exposed former friends who were secretly members of the Nazi party
there would be no controversy. Were the millions dead at the hands
of the Communists less important than the millions dead at the hands
of the Nazis?
What is the issue here? Loyalty to friends or loyalty to Mankind?
article <01be749c$d0fb4180$5d0d4ecf@Precon>,
"Trish" <re...@spamlink.com> wrote:
> Spielburg and spouse clapped, no stand
> Jim Carrey clapped, no stand
> Ed Harris and Amy Madigan - no clap or stand
> Nick Nolte and sitcom girlfriend - no clap or stand
> CLAPPED AND STOOD
> Carl Maldan
> Kathy Bates
> Warren Beatty
> Meryl Streep
> Debbie Allen
> Robert DeNiro and Martin Scorsese in this group, as well.
> Many, many more, but the camera went to fast
> Can't remember the rest
> Trish
>
> ri...@telecom.com wrote in article <36f5c83e...@news.earthlink.net>...
> > Will somebody help me out? My eyes are bad. Who refused to stand or
> > clap for Elia Kazan at Oscars? Actually, three lists: those who
> > stood and clapped, those who only clapped, those who neither stood nor
> > clapped.
> >
> >
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
james jorden
decade's events to live in the real world, they can only mutter, "what
if, what if."
We fought a declared war against Nazis, you idiot. Kazan blew the
whistle on people who attended meetings of a legal political party over
a decade earlier.
If he had named people who were *at the time* actively participating in
illegal or anyway disloyal activities, we would not be having this
discussion. He didn't. No dangerous Commie spies were arrested on
account of Kazan's testimony. He just managed to ruin a few lives in
order to advance his own career, and he has never even apologized for
the *human* suffering he caused.
neura...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> Would it have made a difference if ...
--
james jorden
jjo...@ix.netcom.com
http://www.parterre.com
"Style is the most important thing in the world. Fashion is the least."
-- Quentin Crisp
lwt...@webtv.net
>Spielburg and spouse clapped, no stand
>Jim Carrey clapped, no stand
>Ed Harris and Amy Madigan - no clap or stand
>Nick Nolte and sitcom girlfriend - no clap or
>stand CLAPPED AND STOOD
>Carl Maldan
>Kathy Bates
>Warren Beatty
>Meryl Streep
>Debbie Allen
>Robert DeNiro and Martin Scorsese in this
>group, as well. Many, many more, but the
>camera went to fast Can't remember the rest
Billy Bob Thornton and Laura Dern stood and clapped also. (after Dern
asked Thornton whether they should stand or not.....which is on tape, if
you watch the close-up of Spielberg and see Dern behind him...you can
read Dern's lips and later see the couple standing and clapping in the
background when they show Nick Nolte)
Scott
Peep...@webtv.net
>Aren't people who don't
>understand history
>condemned to repeat it...
>I never thought I'd see reasonable
>Americans defending the McCarthy
>period.
You must be new to Earth, pumkin. A few months (NOT *decades* ago) we
had a few blatant Wag-the-Dog bombings of Sudan, Afghanistan & Iraq.
Now, I KNOW the lives of foreigners ain't worth squat compared to the
screen-writing careers of illustrious H-wood elites, but, baby, you
MIGHT want to study up on **recent** history -- current events --just
for the heck of it.
You ALSO might want to look at the VERY recent trashings of prisoners'
rights, immigrants' rights, welfare recipients' rights, etc. etc. under
the Clinton "administration."
Hugs,
Janice, who'd like to know WHO -- besides pampered H-wood elites -- were
victims of the House Un-American Committee -- but didn't get 50 years to
whine about it.
james jorden
seriously, when he refused to offer an apology to those his actions
injured.
Every event is political, every work of art is political, every human
action is political. Offering a "lifetime achievement" award to a
director who has already won two Oscars in competition is very
definitely a political act.
HamActor wrote:
>
> Neither the Oscars or the Olympics are the place for political statements. Has
> Vanessa Redgrave taught us NOTHING??
>
> HamActor
Melody Clark
dar wrote in message ...>>
>Sally Kirkland has the clap??!
>
Well, it would explain a lot.
Melody Clark
neura...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
<7d6ket$hqr$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>Would it have made a difference if Kazan had exposed Nazis instead of
>Communists?
Neural net, your neurons are back-firing again.
Not all Communists supported Stalin anymore than all Republicans embraced
Georgie Bush whereas the Nazis were Hitler's henchies.
Kazan sold-out individuals who happened to be Communists, which is a
philosophy, not an affiliation. I don't like any form of fascism, but the
fact remains that Kazan (who had his own "suspect" alliances) covered his
own ass. He also roundly attacked homosexuals in the industry and anyone
else not to his liking.
And he looks like a hydrocephalic whooping crane.
3finger
Peep...@webtv.net (Peep...@webtv.net) wrote:
> Any particular reason DeNiro & Scorsese were selected as presenters.
> THIS gal thought it was SO touching when they kissed Elia -- & esp. when
> Marty laid his head on Elia's shoulder for a sec & smiled.
>
> Sap-hugs,
> Janice
>
De Niro (bad hair) worked with Kazan in "The Last Tycoon." Scorsese is
just a film guro and historian. They also probably were chosen because the
Academy thought their strong reputations as liberals and tough guys would
counterbalance the controversy. So-so results.
3finger
3finger
ultim...@hotmail.com (King Daevid MacKenzie, UltimaJock!) wrote:
> ...Ed Harris and Amy Madigan looked really pissed at Kazan (interesting,
> since I thought Harris was a conservative)...
I don't know Harris' politics, though you may be right. I think Madigan is
more liberal, and she looked even more pissed than Harris. Maybe to them,
loyalty is more important than politics.
3finger
Ripley Mason
>I never thought I'd see reasonable Americans
>defending the McCarthy period
year, nothing is surprizing. A sideline to the "naming names" by Kazan
involves the Rabid Reich's hero-- Ronald Reagan, who , during this
period, was president of the Screen Actor's Guild. Larry Parks , one of
those named by Kazan, headed a committee looking into actors' salaries.
Parks found that almost 90% of actors earned below the poverty level and
advocated reforms. Reagan and the studio bosses screamed foul, and
Reagan let it be known to the HUAC that Parks had joined the Communist
Party in the 30's as a young actor; hehad dropped the membership 10
years before these events, but it was curtains for his career. Most of
the actors accused belonged to the radical Actors Studio in N.Y. They
advocated racial integration, labor unions, feeding the poor---all
Communist concepts in those days. So, of course, they had to be
punished. Kazan named names, kept his career, and was generously
rewarded.
*****************************************
"The good news is that the rich people and the business people still
like us"
G.O.P. Governor Christine Whitman of New Jersey to the N.Y. Times
Jamie
> De Niro (bad hair) worked with Kazan in "The Last Tycoon." Scorsese is
> just a film guro and historian.
I heard on the radio that Scorsese had been picked because Kazan had
been Scorsese's DGA mentor.
--
~Jamie
raza...@my-dejanews.com
19990322115222...@ng10.aol.co
m>,
janl...@aol.com (Janloves) wrote:
> >Subject: Re: Who Didn't Clap or Stand for Elia Kazan at Oscars?
> >From: roby...@aol.com (RobynR22)
> >Date: 3/22/99 11:17 AM Eastern Standard Time
> >Message-id: <19990322111724...@ng-ca1.aol.com>
> >
> >>and that B-actress Amy Madigan had her ARMS CROSSED with a huge frown! The
> >>brat was probably about two when all that happened with Kazan!
> >
> >consider that?
> >
> >Robyn
> >
>
> You mean they were communists? In those days if you belonged to the
> Communist Party you were considered a communist. Sounds logical to me. Why
> else belong? It was considered a threat to the security of this country. It was
> a product of the times we lived in. And it scared people. Ever consider that?
Aren't people who don't understand history
condemned to repeat it... Jan, I suggest you
research this topic a little.
You'll find a quite respectable selection of well-
thought-of people in your country were violently
opposed to the McCarthy episode and were
particularly condemnatory to those who cooperated
with his committee.
I never thought I'd see reasonable Americans
defending the McCarthy period.
Razateur - the more things change...
someo...@my-dejanews.com
mdm...@bellsouth.net (Michelle M.) wrote:
> On 22 Mar 1999 05:38:54 GMT, a...@aol.com (AE3) wrote:
>
> >>
> >>clap for Elia Kazan at Oscars? Actually, three lists: those who
> >>stood and clapped, those who only clapped, those who neither stood nor
> >>clapped.
> >>
probably has! And the misty eyes may be from drinking...
> >
> >Neither clap nor stand: Nolte and Ed Harris
> >Didn't stand but clapped: Spielberg
> >
> >This according to AP.
>
> Stood and clapped with her lips parted and her eyes ever so misty:
> Goldie Hawn. No, wait, she did that all night long.
>
> Michelle
>
> If you've got a blacklist, I wanna be on it. -Billy Bragg
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Mowsie2897
sympathies?
Rich Johnson
: Sitting at home, I thought of the lives and careers Kazan helped destroy
: to ensure his own career----Larry Parks, John Garfield, Zero Mostel etc.
: none of whom could work in Hollywood for many years. All their names
: should be honored at some future awards.
While Kazan was a rat and the HUAC was a shameful disgrace those people
were supporters of a Soviet regime that was murdering people by the
millions. They go on the shelf right next to Nazi sympathizers. There
were no heroes to be found in the whole disgraceful affair.
Rich
ssmi...@my-dejanews.com
I haven't seen them, and since they're about the ONLY things I really
noticed about the awards, I have to ask:
1. When Bill Condon won 'best adapted screenplay' for GODS AND MONSTERS,
it looked like he jumped up and gave a big smooch to some guy next
to him - and the camera hastily cut away to something else. ???
Or did I imagine that? It looked like more than the usual Hollywood
air kiss.
2. When Harvey Weinstein & Co. were accepting for Best Picture, it
seemed that the bearded guy next to him was all set to say his
thank-yous when that strung-out woman finally finished, but then
she said "So here's Harvey" or something and gave HIM the mike --
which he held on to, going on and on till the music started. Did
he deprive the bearded guy of his chance to thank ... anyone?
Steve
(relieved to hear just now that the Debbie Allen dance number was not as
exciting as I'd heard. I was afraid I'd missed a big Busby-Berkeley-style
tribute, with a whole horde of dancers acting out Saving Private Ryan in
TAP.)
marik...@my-dejanews.com
roby...@aol.com (RobynR22) wrote:
> >and that B-actress Amy Madigan had her ARMS CROSSED with a huge frown! The
> >brat was probably about two when all that happened with Kazan!
>
> Maybe someone in her family got nailed by Kazan's finger-pointing. Ever
> consider that?
>
> Robyn
you know that is a really good point. I would have liked to have heard
more from those that were personally affected.
I would also liked to have heard precisely what degree of terror,
if any, Kazan was experiencing when he made his decision. Maybe we
will never know.
Sometimes, animals in terror will do things they would never do
otherwise - you know, the sick dog who bites the human who is trying to
help, or the animal that bites off its own leg to escape a trap.
I don't know all the facts and i wouldn't want to judge him til I got the
whole story.
But I also think just sitting still and not clapping is less than an
authentic symbol of disagreement. It's a pretty empty gesture.
I would like to know how many people resigned their memberships as a result
of the Academy's endorsement of Kazan. And how many of those people who did
in fact resign were touched directly by Kazan's actions. How many resigned
out of principle alone, not having been affected at all by his actions.
This, I think, would be a lot more persuasive than arm folding.
Also, I would like to know how many people, if any,
were touched directly by his actions, and voted for him anyway, or
stood in ovation last night, in spite of his "betrayal".
I think the complexity of the issue is such that I would really prefer
to have answers to the human aspects of the situation. I would rather
make my judgment after hearing the stories of all involved, rather than
basing it on the demonstration of a few who folded their arms.
HamActor
MLYoung
>were supporters of a Soviet regime that was murdering people by the
>millions. They go on the shelf right next to
during WWII, when the U.S. and
Soviet Union were allies?
God, it's sort of horrible how little
people seem to know about history.
Are you guys afraid to read, or something?
--margaret
Nazi sympathizers. There
>were no heroes to be found in the whole disgraceful affair.
>
>Rich
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Subject: Re: Who Didn't Clap or Stand for Elia Kazan at Oscars?
>Path:
>lobby!newstf02.news.aol.com!portc02.blue.aol.com!howland.erols.net!news.m
axwell.syr.edu!news1.best.com!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!fc.hp.com!richj
>From: ri...@fc.hp.com (Rich Johnson)
>Newsgroups: alt.showbiz.gossip
>Date: 23 Mar 1999 00:45:07 GMT
>Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site
>Lines: 12
*NaNcY*
>Forgive me if these questions have already been chewed to death here;
>I haven't seen them, and since they're about the ONLY things I really
>noticed about the awards, I have to ask:
>
>1. When Bill Condon won 'best adapted screenplay' for GODS AND MONSTERS,
> it looked like he jumped up and gave a big smooch to some guy next
> to him - and the camera hastily cut away to something else. ???
> Or did I imagine that? It looked like more than the usual Hollywood
> air kiss.
I saw the exact same thing you saw.
>Steve
>(relieved to hear just now that the Debbie Allen dance number was not as
> exciting as I'd heard. I was afraid I'd missed a big Busby-Berkeley-style
> tribute, with a whole horde of dancers acting out Saving Private Ryan in
> TAP.)
Are you kidding, there were these gorgeous, near naked bodies doing
marvelous things all over the stage. I loved it! <pant><pant>
*NaNcY*
/\_____/\
/ o o \
( == ^ == )
) - (
( )
( ( ) ( ) )
(__(__)___(__)__)
http://people.delphi.com/nlopez
Rachel L. Brendzel
secrets from American spies they paid, e.g. Alger Hiss and the Rosenbergs.
Then the Russians, with the threat of nuclear weapons, invaded Hungary. Of
course it was a threat. Of course many Americans were worried about spies.
----------
In article <19990322115222...@ng10.aol.com>, janl...@aol.com
(Janloves) wrote:
>>Subject: Re: Who Didn't Clap or Stand for Elia Kazan at Oscars?
>>From: roby...@aol.com (RobynR22)
>>Date: 3/22/99 11:17 AM Eastern Standard Time
>>Message-id: <19990322111724...@ng-ca1.aol.com>
>>
>>>and that B-actress Amy Madigan had her ARMS CROSSED with a huge frown! The
>>>brat was probably about two when all that happened with Kazan!
>>
>>Maybe someone in her family got nailed by Kazan's finger-pointing. Ever
>>consider that?
>>
>>Robyn
>>
>
> You mean they were communists? In those days if you belonged to the
>Communist Party you were considered a communist. Sounds logical to me. Why
>else belong? It was considered a threat to the security of this country. It was
>a product of the times we lived in. And it scared people. Ever consider that?
Rachel L. Brendzel
heroes.
----------
In article <7d6o6j$t26$1...@fcnews.fc.hp.com>, ri...@fc.hp.com (Rich Johnson)
wrote:
>ctive file. Deleting.
>: Sitting at home, I thought of the lives and careers Kazan helped destroy
>: to ensure his own career----Larry Parks, John Garfield, Zero Mostel etc.
>: none of whom could work in Hollywood for many years. All their names
>: should be honored at some future awards.
>
>While Kazan was a rat and the HUAC was a shameful disgrace those people
>were supporters of a Soviet regime that was murdering people by the
>millions. They go on the shelf right next to Nazi sympathizers. There
Rachel L. Brendzel
only right when what you believe in is right. Loyalty to the Nazi party is
vile. I can't believe that loyalty to the Communist Party is not considered
to be just as vile. Hitler killed millions and his name is likened to
Satan's. But Stalin's isn't. Why these Hollywood people seem to think that
supporting Stalin was just jim-dandy is beyond me.
----------
In article <7d6ket$hqr$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, neura...@my-dejanews.com
wrote:
>Would it have made a difference if Kazan had exposed Nazis instead of
>Communists? Stalin had killed 30 million people and at that very
>moment there were thousands dying in labor camps. I suspect if Kazan
>had exposed former friends who were secretly members of the Nazi party
>there would be no controversy. Were the millions dead at the hands
>of the Communists less important than the millions dead at the hands
>of the Nazis?
>
>What is the issue here? Loyalty to friends or loyalty to Mankind?
>
>
>
>article <01be749c$d0fb4180$5d0d4ecf@Precon>,
> "Trish" <re...@spamlink.com> wrote:
>> Spielburg and spouse clapped, no stand
>> Jim Carrey clapped, no stand
>> Ed Harris and Amy Madigan - no clap or stand
>> Nick Nolte and sitcom girlfriend - no clap or stand
>> CLAPPED AND STOOD
>> Carl Maldan
>> Kathy Bates
>> Warren Beatty
>> Meryl Streep
>> Debbie Allen
>> Robert DeNiro and Martin Scorsese in this group, as well.
>> Many, many more, but the camera went to fast
>> Can't remember the rest
>> Trish
>>
>> ri...@telecom.com wrote in article <36f5c83e...@news.earthlink.net>...
>> > Will somebody help me out? My eyes are bad. Who refused to stand or
>> > clap for Elia Kazan at Oscars? Actually, three lists: those who
>> > stood and clapped, those who only clapped, those who neither stood nor
>> > clapped.
>> >
>> >
>>
>
Wendy Grossman
usenetted:
> Will somebody help me out? My eyes are bad. Who refused to stand or
> clap for Elia Kazan at Oscars? Actually, three lists: those who
> stood and clapped, those who only clapped, those who neither stood nor
> clapped.
>
I think Helen Hunt stayed seated but clapped politely.
wg
ASGTP#063
Wendy Grossman
> Xeedy wrote:
> > Standing and clapping:
> > Debbie Allen
> > Goldie Hawn and Kurt Russell
> > Karl Malden, Warren Beatty (surprise)
>
> Beatty came out in favor of Kazan at the start of the controversy.
> I think they're friends (Kazan having directed Beatty in Slendor
> in the Grass).
>
> I actually liked the clips they showed for Kazan better than the
> ones they showed for Kubrick. Other than 2001 and Strangelove,
> I'm not a big Kubrick fan, but overall I thought the clip job
> done for him was done poorly. Not the best moments from his films,
> and the clips seemed too short. With Kazan's retrospective I thought
> they chose some scenes that were great, but that weren't scenes
> that everybody practically had memorized (like showing those two
> extended scenes of "On the Waterfront" instead of showing the
> whole "coulda been a contender" car scene for the gazillionth time.)
I thought for Kubrick they should have given him one long scene, probably
the wonderful dissolve where the bone turns into a spaceship. As you say:
too short, too rushed.
I was so glad Whoopi Goldberg got in something about Gene Siskel.
wg
ASGTP#063
Yesfile
(snipped)
>
>I was so glad Whoopi Goldberg got in something about Gene Siskel.
>
>wg
>
Having said earlier that she was terrible, I have to give her credit for that
moment. Brought a tear to my eye. :-)
Peggy
MacHeath
>Of all the people standing and clapping you signal out Debbie Allen (the most
>insignificant of all those standing and clapping) for your venom - Like I said,
>you need to check yourself.
Excuse me but I take offense to your comment. Debbie Allen is a very powerful
woman in Hollywood and is widely respected for her choreography(excepting last
night). Do you think she would be asked to choreograph the Oscars if she were
"insignificant"?
andrew.
Myfanwy's 1st Birthday!
http://www.highwired.com/myfanwy/birthday.html
MacHeath
>Hey Janloves, do you think they should blacklist Mel Gibson for his militia
>sympathies?
They should blacklist him for making a quadrillion sequels to Lethal Weapon.
David
news:19990322204258...@ng-fd1.aol.com...
> Neither the Oscars or the Olympics are the place for political statements.
Has
> Vanessa Redgrave taught us NOTHING??
>
Well she taught me that she makes a far more convincing man than Julie
Andrews does.
--
| Looking for a flame-war free *FUN* newsgroup? Try alt.culture.fabulous
| ASG FAQ: http://www.showbuzznet.com/asg/faq.htm
| Anti-FAQ http://www.showbuzznet.com/asg/antifaq.htm
| If you're someone I want to hear from, you'll figure out how to e-mail me
Frank M. Miller
=Xeedy <xe...@aol.com> wrote in message
=news:19990322005354...@ng29.aol.com...
=> Sitting, angry and not clapping:
=> Ed Harris and wife
=> Nick Nolte and wife
=>
=> Sitting and clapping:
=> Spielberg and wife
=> Jim Carey (sitting next to Ed Harris, and looking extremely uncomfortable)
=> Billy Bob Thorton and Laura Dern
=>
=> Standing and clapping:
=> Debbie Allen
=
=I'm surprised she didn't try to work in a dance number.
Maybe she couldn't figure out how to tap dance to applause.
+===============================================================+
Frank Miller, 10086 Sunset Blvd., FABville
frnklin at mindspring dot com (please note correct email address, albeit spelled out)
Atlanta, GA
"I am impatient with stupidity." --Michael Rennie, THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL
+===============================================================+
raza...@my-dejanews.com
151.iap.bryant.webtv.net>,
Ripm...@webtv.net (Ripley Mason) wrote:
> Razateur wrote
> >I never thought I'd see reasonable Americans
> I think the key word here is "reasonable" Looking back over the past
> year, nothing is surprizing. A sideline to the "naming names" by Kazan
> involves the Rabid Reich's hero-- Ronald Reagan, who , during this
> period, was president of the Screen Actor's Guild. Larry Parks , one of
> those named by Kazan, headed a committee looking into actors' salaries.
> Parks found that almost 90% of actors earned below the poverty level and
> advocated reforms. Reagan and the studio bosses screamed foul, and
> Reagan let it be known to the HUAC that Parks had joined the Communist
> Party in the 30's as a young actor; hehad dropped the membership 10
> years before these events, but it was curtains for his career. Most of
> the actors accused belonged to the radical Actors Studio in N.Y. They
> advocated racial integration, labor unions, feeding the poor---all
> Communist concepts in those days. So, of course, they had to be
> punished. Kazan named names, kept his career, and was generously
> rewarded.
My point exactly, Rip. As I said, 'Always follow
the money!'
Razateur - money is the root of all things
LandonEx
>Forgive me if these questions have already been chewed to death here...
>1. When Bill Condon won 'best adapted screenplay' for GODS AND MONSTERS,
> it looked like he jumped up and gave a big smooch to some guy next
> to him - and the camera hastily cut away to something else. ???
> Or did I imagine that? It looked like more than the usual Hollywood
> air kiss.
The smoochee coulda been Condon's S.O. or a Steady Eddie. Condon's gay, and
his work on "Gods and Monsters" is discussed in the book "Open Secret."
=Landon=
---------------
Never criticize a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes.
Then it's okay, because he's a mile away and you've got his shoes.
BTraven
>
> neura...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
> <7d6ket$hqr$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> >Would it have made a difference if Kazan had exposed Nazis instead of
> >Communists?
>
>
> Not all Communists supported Stalin
What ARE you talking about? In 1950, you'd better believe they supported Stalin. Many of
them subsequently changed their minds.
> anymore than all Republicans embraced
> Georgie Bush whereas the Nazis were Hitler's henchies.
>
> Kazan sold-out individuals who happened to be Communists,
Nobody "happens" to become a Communist. It's not an accident of birth. It's a
formally-organized group that people either chose to join or didn't.
>which is a
> philosophy, not an affiliation.
Of course, it's an affiliation. It was an official political party, with a slate of candidates and an
active fund-raising apparatus. Why do you think it wasn't?
>I don't like any form of fascism, but the
> fact remains that Kazan (who had his own "suspect" alliances) covered his
> own ass. He also roundly attacked homosexuals in the industry and anyone
> else not to his liking.
>
> And he looks like a hydrocephalic whooping crane.
You should look as well when you're 90.
Janloves
>From: raza...@my-dejanews.com
>Date: 3/22/99 7:42 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <7d6o1p$kvo$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
>
>In article <
>19990322115222...@ng10.aol.co
>m>,
> janl...@aol.com (Janloves) wrote:
>> >Subject: Re: Who Didn't Clap or Stand for Elia Kazan at Oscars?
>> >From: roby...@aol.com (RobynR22)
>> >Date: 3/22/99 11:17 AM Eastern Standard Time
>> >Message-id: <19990322111724...@ng-ca1.aol.com>
>> >
>> >>and that B-actress Amy Madigan had her ARMS CROSSED with a huge frown!
>The
>> >>brat was probably about two when all that happened with Kazan!
>> >
>> >Maybe someone in her family got nailed by Kazan's finger-pointing. Ever
>> >consider that?
>> >
>> >Robyn
>> >
>>
>> You mean they were communists? In those days if you belonged to the
>> Communist Party you were considered a communist. Sounds logical to me. Why
>> else belong? It was considered a threat to the security of this country. It
>was
>> a product of the times we lived in. And it scared people. Ever consider
>that?
>
>condemned to repeat it... Jan, I suggest you
>research this topic a little.
>
>You'll find a quite respectable selection of well-
>thought-of people in your country were violently
>opposed to the McCarthy episode and were
>particularly condemnatory to those who cooperated
>with his committee.
>
>
>Razateur - the more things change...
>
>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
>
>
>
from the HUMAN aspect of the times in this country. If you were a communist
then in America people were afraid. Fear can drive people to do things they
normally wouldn't do. Try to make the connection, instead of trying to make me
seem ignorant, which I am not.
Buster Crab
neura...@my-dejanews.com
wrote:
>Would it have made a difference if Kazan
>had exposed Nazis instead of
>Communists? Stalin had killed 30 million
>people and at that very moment there
>were thousands dying in labor camps.
>suspect if Kazan had exposed former
>friends who were secretly members of the
>Nazi party there would be no controversy.
Absolutely correct. This whole anti-Kazan
thing is the last gasp of die-hard leftism.
It's 1000% political.
They prevented him from receiving this
long-overdue award in the past, but they
couldn't muster the votes on the Academy Board this time. And so they
cranked up
a sourball protest at the Oscars.
But even Warren Beatty stood up for Kazan....something I respect him
for, knowing his views to be on the left.
>Were the millions dead at the hands of the
>Communists less important than the
>millions dead at the hands of the Nazis?
Of course! They were "class enemies."
They were standing in the way of history.
"You can't make an omlette without breaking eggs" when you are trying to
establish the Worker's Paradise!
>What is the issue here? Loyalty to friends
>or loyalty to Mankind?
Precisely. Why should Kazan have protected his Stalinist "friends" at
the expense of his own career and conscience? The history of communism
is replete with the eating of its own---Stalin's purge trials, Mao's
Cultural Revolution,
Pol Pot's Cambodian Holocaust---what loyalty did he owe to people who
carried water for a murderous regime?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"I should have been a pair of ragged claws
scuttling across the floors of silent seas."
--T.S. Eliot
"The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock."
See a picture of me at:
http://www.busterthecrab.com/
Buster Crab
Margaret wrote:
>Hmmm, you mean the U.S. government
>during WWII, when the U.S. and
>Soviet Union were allies?
>God, it's sort of horrible how little
>people seem to know about history.
>Are you guys afraid to read, or
>something?
Yes, after Hitler broke his agreement with Stalin--an agreement to
dismember Poland which led to the start of the war-- the US and the USSR
became formal
allies, under the theory that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend."
Churchill had said he would make an alliance with the Devil to defeat
Nazism, and that's pretty much what the allies did.
It was a necessary evil.
But what does it have to do with documented Soviet subversion and murder
before and after the war?
GTong
Web...@webtv.net (Buster Crab) wrote:
> neura...@my-dejanews.com
> wrote:
>
> >Would it have made a difference if Kazan
> >had exposed Nazis instead of
> >Communists? Stalin had killed 30 million
> >people and at that very moment there
> >were thousands dying in labor camps.
>
> Absolutely correct. This whole anti-Kazan
> thing is the last gasp of die-hard leftism.
> It's 1000% political.
Well, the historical fact, covered by historians of the left, right, and
center, is that McCarthy didn't expose a single "card-carrying Communist,"
despite all the damage to lives and careers.
So asking if Kazan exposed Nazis instead of Commies is kinda moot, since
no Commies were exposed ... but a lot of damage was done.
--
To reply, remove ".out".
Zippy
>
> Well, the historical fact, covered by historians of the left, right, and
> center, is that McCarthy didn't expose a single "card-carrying Communist,"
> despite all the damage to lives and careers.
Where can we actually read about what you call "the historical fact" that McCarthy didn't
expose a single Communist. Or does it depend upon what you mean by "exposed" and
"card-carrying Communist?"
Michael L. Cunningham
fingered people who had the freedom and right under our Democratic
system to do as they pleased.
He violated their constitutional rights as did the HUAC.
Michael
james jorden wrote:
>
> Ah, the pathetic whine of the Far Right: rendered powerless by the past
> decade's events to live in the real world, they can only mutter, "what
> if, what if."
>
> We fought a declared war against Nazis, you idiot. Kazan blew the
> whistle on people who attended meetings of a legal political party over
> a decade earlier.
>
> If he had named people who were *at the time* actively participating in
> illegal or anyway disloyal activities, we would not be having this
> discussion. He didn't. No dangerous Commie spies were arrested on
> account of Kazan's testimony. He just managed to ruin a few lives in
> order to advance his own career, and he has never even apologized for
> the *human* suffering he caused.
>
> neura...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> >
> > Would it have made a difference if ...
>
> --
> james jorden
> jjo...@ix.netcom.com
> http://www.parterre.com
>
> "Style is the most important thing in the world. Fashion is the least."
> -- Quentin Crisp
dar
Then, of course, not now. That would cause a protest.
dar
--
Will play tennis for food.
MLYoung
Try a history book. The ignorance
of basic facts here has been appalling.
--margaret
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Subject: Re: What if Kazan had Exposed Nazis instead of Commies? (Re: Who
>Di...
>Path:
>lobby!newstf02.news.aol.com!portc02.blue.aol.com!nyd.news.ans.net!newspum
p.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!novia!sequencer.newscene.com!not-for-mail
>From: Zippy <bub...@bauble.com>
>Newsgroups: alt.showbiz.gossip
>Date: 23 Mar 1999 12:27:01 -0600
>Organization: The Flat Earth Society
>Lines: 9
>Message-ID: <36F7DD...@bauble.com>
>References: <7d6ket$hqr$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
><29306-36...@newsd-244.iap.bryant.webtv.net>
teres...@my-dejanews.com
> Planning to start your own blacklist? ;-) I refuse to answer this question on
> the grounds that it might tend to incriminate me.
Good God, Powerlib has a point. Rick R just got half of us to name names
without even thinking about it.
--
P.S. Rich Johonson? If you're THE Richard Johnson, get out of this thread
and start a real one. nah, couldn't be.
MLYoung
>
>What ARE you talking about? In 1950, you'd better believe they supported
>Stalin. Many of
>them subsequently changed their minds.
Moscow Trials. Trotskyites. Look it
up, nitwit.
--margaret
ssmi...@my-dejanews.com
land...@aol.comnospamno (LandonEx) wrote:
> ssmi...@my-dejanews.com asked:
> >Forgive me if these questions have already been chewed to death here...
> >1. When Bill Condon won 'best adapted screenplay' for GODS AND MONSTERS,
> > it looked like he jumped up and gave a big smooch to some guy next
> > to him - and the camera hastily cut away to something else. ???
> > Or did I imagine that? It looked like more than the usual Hollywood
> > air kiss.
>
> The smoochee coulda been Condon's S.O. or a Steady Eddie. Condon's gay, and
> his work on "Gods and Monsters" is discussed in the book "Open Secret."
That was pretty much what I assumed, but you could practically hear the
cameraman (or producer) squawking "Ack!!" and backpedaling to something,
ANYthing, else. Quick! Let's show some other people, uh, sitting in
aisle seats!
Steve
Jefe
The man was notorious for his pedestrian tastes, but he was on our TV
every week, so we should cry for him.
Jefe
Jefe
>
> DNA409 held forth:
> > Yes, I don't think anyone held their clapping hands higher than Debbie
> >Allen.
>
> Because it was the only close-up she's had in ten years.
A friend says Allen is just about the biggest, meanest shrew she's ever
had the displeasure of working with. And, notes the friend, she has a
big butt and is not happy about it.
Jefe
*NaNcY*
wrote:
He was also a great campaigner for Independent Flix. Because he was
on our TVs every week, some very obscure movies were later viewed by
people who other wise would have not known about them.
*NaNcY*
/\_____/\
/ o o \
( == ^ == )
) - (
( )
( ( ) ( ) )
(__(__)___(__)__)
http://people.delphi.com/nlopez
king...@postoffice.pacbell.net
>
> That was pretty much what I assumed, but you could practically hear the
> cameraman (or producer) squawking "Ack!!" and backpedaling to something,
> ANYthing, else. Quick! Let's show some other people, uh, sitting in
> aisle seats!
That's what differentiates the Oscar's from the Tony's. When a gay
person wins a Tony award, it's not uncommon to see a same sex smooch
before the walk up to the stage.
hazmat
>
> >GTong wrote:
> >>
> >> Well, the historical fact, covered by historians of the left, right, and
> >> center, is that McCarthy didn't expose a single "card-carrying Communist,"
> >> despite all the damage to lives and careers.
> >
> >Where can we actually read about what you call "the historical fact" that
> >McCarthy didn't
> >expose a single Communist. Or does it depend upon what you mean by "exposed"
> >and
> >"card-carrying Communist?"
> >
>
> Try a history book. The ignorance
> of basic facts here has been appalling.
>
reading yourself. If you'd like some further information (i.e. any at all) on what was really
going on in Hollywood during the Cold War -- and specifically what activities the
government was concerned about -- here are some suggestions for you:
1. "Hollywood Party: How Communism Seduced the American Film Industry in the 1930's and
1940's" by Kenneth Lloyd Billingley (1998 Prima);
2. "The Haunted Wood: Soviet Espionage in America," by Allen Weinstein, Alexander Vassiliev
(1999, Random House).
3. "My Ten Years as a Counter Spy," by Boris Morros. (out of print, see ABE Books or
Bibliofind.)
There are a number of other books on this subject by respected authors; they are hardly the
lurid ravings of right-wing cranks.
I suppose I'd better add that I was indeed there, and that some of the people who were
blacklisted were acquaintances of mine -- in fact, the State Dept. confiscated MY passport. As
for there being no card-carrying Communists revealed during the HUAC hearings, I
recommend you read Lucy's FBI Freedom of Information file -- it's probably on line by now.
Eagerly awaiting YOUR reading list. Not holding my breath, though.
Hazz
GTong
> Where can we actually read about what you call "the historical fact"
that McCarthy didn't
> expose a single Communist. Or does it depend upon what you mean by
"exposed" and
> "card-carrying Communist?"
Have you tried the library? Here are three books you can start with:
The Communist Conspiracy in Washington, by Aaron Latham
The biography of Joe McCarthy by Richard Rovere
The Crucial Decade, And After, by Goldman
BTW, if you're such a McCarthy fan, you would know that "card-carrying
Communist" was his term.
hazmat
assertions. If you believe that in questioning YOUR claim that it's an "historical fact" that
McCarthy didn't expose a single Communist, the poster placed himself -- therefore -- on the
side of McCarthy, you need some lessons in clear thinking. Also humility.
hazz
king...@postoffice.pacbell.net
brought this up because it perfectly illustrates how out of control
these hearings were. The "goods" on Lucy consisted of a signed
membership register of a workers group that her grandfather was
supporting in his last years. Fred Hunt, Lucy's grandfather was a
supporter of anything for the common working man and was very
cantankerous and demanding that his family (he raised Lucy after her
father died when she was 5) support it too. Lucy later said she signed
it in order to make her grandpa drop the subject at home.
The year she signed the document was 1934 and it was almost 20 years
later that the HUAC seized this as their opportunity to ruin Miss Ball's
career. Luckily Desi Arnaz, who you can believe was no supporter of
Communists as they had taken his family's vast holdings in Cuba in the
1930's, was able to rally CBS, Philip Morris Tobacco (I Love Lucy's
sponsor) and the LA Times to her defense. The charges were dropped.
As for Lucy's FBI files, they would pale in comparison to an expose of
J. Edgar Hoover's private life if he had been the subject of such
dubious scrutiny.
I might add that the Arnazes were registered Republicans and often
entertained President Eisenhower in their home at the Thunderbird
Country Club in Palm Springs, CA.
Desi Arnaz gave a great interview at the time and said, "The only thing
red about Lucy is her hair, and even that's not real."
fin...@webtv.net
It seems like the Academy was really reaching out to Kazan, to make nice
for the past--liberals hugging him on camera, down and dirty host denied
any reference to the politics at hand. I'd love to be able to dismiss
him as a hack, but I can't. He's an artist, and has been appropriately
awarded for it by the Academy in the past He either protected the
country from Stalin or betrayed his understanding of human nature as an
artist and wrecked lives for his own gain. There doesn't seem to be any
middle ground here.
Either way, what struck me was how relentlessly unrepentant he remained.
Give me the award and now I'll just slither, or was that slip, away.
This is the McCarthy tanked at the HUAC ceremony thread, right?
hazmat
>
> Lucille Ball was hardly a card carrying Communist. In fact, I'm glad you
> brought this up because it perfectly illustrates how out of control
> these hearings were. The "goods" on Lucy consisted of a signed
> membership register of a workers group that her grandfather was
> supporting in his last years. Fred Hunt, Lucy's grandfather was a
> supporter of anything for the common working man and was very
> cantankerous and demanding that his family (he raised Lucy after her
> father died when she was 5) support it too. Lucy later said she signed
> it in order to make her grandpa drop the subject at home.
> The year she signed the document was 1934 and it was almost 20 years
> later that the HUAC seized this as their opportunity to ruin Miss Ball's
> career. Luckily Desi Arnaz, who you can believe was no supporter of
> Communists as they had taken his family's vast holdings in Cuba in the
> 1930's, was able to rally CBS, Philip Morris Tobacco (I Love Lucy's
> sponsor) and the LA Times to her defense. The charges were dropped.
> As for Lucy's FBI files, they would pale in comparison to an expose of
> J. Edgar Hoover's private life if he had been the subject of such
> dubious scrutiny.
I agree that Lucy is of little interest as a political figure. As for J. Edgar Hoover's private life,
Anthony Summers wrote a really excellent book about it, which included details about
Hoover's relationship with Clyde Tolson, as well as some of the lesser-known details of his
conduct in office. The book is called "Official and Confidential: The Secret Life of J. Edgar
Hoover." (GP Putnam, 1993)
>
> I might add that the Arnazes were registered Republicans and often
> entertained President Eisenhower in their home at the Thunderbird
> Country Club in Palm Springs, CA.
However, the FBI file -- as well as your post -- indicate that Lucy had indeed registered as a
member of the Communist party (she also signed a petition for one of its candidates for the
California State Assembly). A woman named Rena Vale even testified that she attended a
Communist party meeting at Lucy's house. That is what the poster's statement about the
McCarthy hearing addressed, not whether McCarthy had succeeded in catching any spies or
people who posed a real danger to the United States.
>
> Desi Arnaz gave a great interview at the time and said, "The only thing
> red about Lucy is her hair, and even that's not real."
>
> hazmat wrote:
> >As for there being no card-carrying Communists revealed during the >HUAC hearings, I recommend you read Lucy's FBI Freedom of Information >file -- it's proba
> >
HamActor
that most of them either stayed home in protest, or refused to walk the Red
Carpet or be seated where the cameras could see them. The only actors we saw
were the ones with something to push.
Next look for a frenzy of stars all trying to get in front of the cameras,
trying to make up for lost time.
HamActor
AniSaerah
the mainstream? ist that what our country was founded on?
Saerah
AniSaerah
or a nazi. the mccarthy hearings were not fair and not legal.
Saerah
AniSaerah
>Satan's. But Stalin's isn't. Why these Hollywood people seem to think that
>supporting Stalin was just jim-dandy is beyond me.
just because someone has or had communist leanings doesnt mean they supported
stalinism, ok? do you think every democrat supports clinton? does that mean
that all members of the democratic party in this country think that having your
intern blow you is ok? no. communism is both a political party and a group aof
views. but there is nothing inherently "wrong" with it.
Saerah