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Too Early to Talk About Alternatives to ASSTR?
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Maracorby
Mar 21, 2021, 3:40:37 PM3/21/21
to
We're left guessing, right now, whether ASSTR will survive its current health problem. The site has been dying slowly for quite some time. Even if it survives this one, who knows about the next.
I wonder if it's time to start brainstorming on the future. What do we want, and what are practical ways to obtain it. I'm worried that if we wait too long, people will scatter and the community will disappear.
It seems to me that what we want falls into three categories:
1. A place to host story files.
2. A place to announce/review/discuss stories.
3. If necessary, Moderators, administrators, and sponsors.
There are a lot of other dirty story sites out there, but most of them have terms of service that either explicitly prohibit much of the content that ASSTR authors post, or they have ambiguous rules that could drop like a hammer at any time. Furthermore, many of them require registration and/or payment to access the stories, which can scare away a lot of readers.
Various generic blogging platforms exist, too, but most of them seem to lack any assurances about freedom of content.
So in terms of a place to host stories, I figure my wish list is:
1.1. Promise of content freedom, or at least a clear policy about what is/isn't allowed.
1.2. Free anonymous access for readers.
1.3. Free access for writers, or maybe paid through Paypal or something that would shelter us from legal trouble.
The other part, which may or may not be part of the same service as the story hosting, is community features. ASSTR used to have a variety: author spotlights, reader reviews, posting messages to authors. Before ASSTR, stories were posted to USENET and as I recall there were actual discussions about some of the stories.
Terms of service are less of a problem for the social side, but we still could face trouble with whoever/whatever hosts it.
My wishlist for the social part is:
2.1. Promise of freedom enough to discuss the stories.
2.2. Anonymous reading of most/all parts. (Announcements, reviews, etc.)
2.3. Free accounts for posting.
I've thought about renting some cloud space and putting together a server of my own to take the place of ASSTR. But I'm not comfortable attaching my real-life identity to a place that could draw a whole lot of legal trouble down on me. Even beyond that, I don't have the energy to be a moderator. (But without moderators, you get overwhelmed by ad bots.)
I don't have answers to all this, but I figured maybe we can get the ball started putting our heads together and asking the questions.
Thoughts?
Maracorby
I wonder if it's time to start brainstorming on the future. What do we want, and what are practical ways to obtain it. I'm worried that if we wait too long, people will scatter and the community will disappear.
It seems to me that what we want falls into three categories:
1. A place to host story files.
2. A place to announce/review/discuss stories.
3. If necessary, Moderators, administrators, and sponsors.
There are a lot of other dirty story sites out there, but most of them have terms of service that either explicitly prohibit much of the content that ASSTR authors post, or they have ambiguous rules that could drop like a hammer at any time. Furthermore, many of them require registration and/or payment to access the stories, which can scare away a lot of readers.
Various generic blogging platforms exist, too, but most of them seem to lack any assurances about freedom of content.
So in terms of a place to host stories, I figure my wish list is:
1.1. Promise of content freedom, or at least a clear policy about what is/isn't allowed.
1.2. Free anonymous access for readers.
1.3. Free access for writers, or maybe paid through Paypal or something that would shelter us from legal trouble.
The other part, which may or may not be part of the same service as the story hosting, is community features. ASSTR used to have a variety: author spotlights, reader reviews, posting messages to authors. Before ASSTR, stories were posted to USENET and as I recall there were actual discussions about some of the stories.
Terms of service are less of a problem for the social side, but we still could face trouble with whoever/whatever hosts it.
My wishlist for the social part is:
2.1. Promise of freedom enough to discuss the stories.
2.2. Anonymous reading of most/all parts. (Announcements, reviews, etc.)
2.3. Free accounts for posting.
I've thought about renting some cloud space and putting together a server of my own to take the place of ASSTR. But I'm not comfortable attaching my real-life identity to a place that could draw a whole lot of legal trouble down on me. Even beyond that, I don't have the energy to be a moderator. (But without moderators, you get overwhelmed by ad bots.)
I don't have answers to all this, but I figured maybe we can get the ball started putting our heads together and asking the questions.
Thoughts?
Maracorby
hardg...@gmail.com
Mar 21, 2021, 6:17:22 PM3/21/21
to
There was a group of people here who started talking about something like this a few years ago when the site went down the first time. They made a Yahoo Group for it, and I think were making some headway, and then they suddenly stopped talking about it entirely, and of course now Yahoo Groups is no longer a thing. As far as sites that allow taboo content that typically isn't permitted elsewhere, Archive of Our Own might be an attractive choice, as there is a category there for 'original works.'
bradle...@gmail.com
Mar 22, 2021, 7:24:10 AM3/22/21
to
When ASSTR was founded in the 1990s, the world was a different place and it was more feasible to develop a story site with such a wide range of services and also attract charitable status in the United States.
Nowadays, the likelihood of a new such site emerging from the collective effort of the half dozen or so people who occasionally contribute to this News Group is pretty much zero.
In any case, the many users of and contributors to ASSTR each have very different priorities.
My own, for what it's worth, is to have a service to which I can upload the HTML pages of my website, support the various formats readers expect and, crucially, have the clout to attract a good steady stream of readers (even though there are rarely more than a few thousand a day).
It is unlikely that unless ASSTR returns from the dead, we'll ever see such a service again.
However, my suspicion is that the current downtime is because the company that maintains the ASSTR service just hasn't been paid and they have disabled the DNS online name resolution for the site as it is the easiest way to discontinue providing its services.
I suspect that someone somewhere just needs to pay some outstanding bills.
Nowadays, the likelihood of a new such site emerging from the collective effort of the half dozen or so people who occasionally contribute to this News Group is pretty much zero.
In any case, the many users of and contributors to ASSTR each have very different priorities.
My own, for what it's worth, is to have a service to which I can upload the HTML pages of my website, support the various formats readers expect and, crucially, have the clout to attract a good steady stream of readers (even though there are rarely more than a few thousand a day).
It is unlikely that unless ASSTR returns from the dead, we'll ever see such a service again.
However, my suspicion is that the current downtime is because the company that maintains the ASSTR service just hasn't been paid and they have disabled the DNS online name resolution for the site as it is the easiest way to discontinue providing its services.
I suspect that someone somewhere just needs to pay some outstanding bills.
Y Lee Coyote
Mar 22, 2021, 11:58:13 AM3/22/21
to
On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 04:24:07 -0700 (PDT), "bradle...@googlemail.com"
<bradle...@gmail.com> wrote in
<d46dc229-0b9a-4c9c...@googlegroups.com>:
<snip>
>However, my suspicion is that the current downtime is because the company that maintains the ASSTR service just hasn't been paid and they have disabled the DNS online name resolution for the site as it is the easiest way to discontinue providing its services.
>
>I suspect that someone somewhere just needs to pay some outstanding bills.
Some reliable sources have indicated that is not the case nor is it a tech
failure since the site functions when one's hosts file controls routing. It
is some sort of admin issue which is being addressed.
Y
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
<bradle...@gmail.com> wrote in
<d46dc229-0b9a-4c9c...@googlegroups.com>:
<snip>
>However, my suspicion is that the current downtime is because the company that maintains the ASSTR service just hasn't been paid and they have disabled the DNS online name resolution for the site as it is the easiest way to discontinue providing its services.
>
>I suspect that someone somewhere just needs to pay some outstanding bills.
failure since the site functions when one's hosts file controls routing. It
is some sort of admin issue which is being addressed.
Y
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Maracorby
Mar 22, 2021, 5:08:44 PM3/22/21
to
>Nowadays, the likelihood of a new such site emerging from the collective effort of the half dozen or so people who occasionally contribute to this News Group is pretty much zero.
We can bolster the number of people involved if we act quickly. We could post a "FUTURE OF ASSTR PLEASE READ" post for the people who did the host file trick, directing them here. And many of us could send out emails to other authors and/or readers with whom we've had email contact - again, asking them to come here and join the conversation. They could contact others.
Could we get enough people to make a difference? I don't know.
>My own, for what it's worth, is to have a service to which I can upload the HTML pages of my website, support the various formats readers expect and, crucially, have the clout to attract a good steady stream of readers (even though there are rarely more than a few thousand a day).
2.4. Enough activity and direction to attract a large user base.
douglas....@gmail.com
Mar 23, 2021, 12:20:35 PM3/23/21
to
On Sunday, March 21, 2021 at 6:17:22 PM UTC-4, hardg...@gmail.com wrote:
> There was a group of people here who started talking about something like this a few years ago when the site went down the first time. They made a Yahoo Group for it, and I think were making some headway, and then they suddenly stopped talking about it entirely, and of course now Yahoo Groups is no longer a thing. As far as sites that allow taboo content that typically isn't permitted elsewhere, Archive of Our Own might be an attractive choice, as there is a category there for 'original works.'
I was part of that group - problem was that there was no money to pay for someone to develop the site and no one had the skill/time/ability to do it for free. Funding is usually the issue along with the type of content that Asstr posted. There's a reason that Asstr wasn't able to accept credit card payments or anything other than cash/check - too many companies weren't willing to be associated with anything relating to sex. Pot industry in US is having the same type of problems.
> There was a group of people here who started talking about something like this a few years ago when the site went down the first time. They made a Yahoo Group for it, and I think were making some headway, and then they suddenly stopped talking about it entirely, and of course now Yahoo Groups is no longer a thing. As far as sites that allow taboo content that typically isn't permitted elsewhere, Archive of Our Own might be an attractive choice, as there is a category there for 'original works.'
P. Writer
Mar 23, 2021, 3:02:07 PM3/23/21
to
Well, I decided to go solo and create a new home for PZA Boy Stories - on the Tor network. If you wish to see it, you can go to htt://7h6xs7vpc2qlmm4r2oxfpme3xmj2zvorgu2gwxe6uvq47fk3463qzdad.onion in Tor Browser, or via https://pzaboystoravp2rz.tor2web.io/ in any normal browser - the tor2web gateway link can be somewhat unstable.
Now, please keep in mind, PZA is but a small collection of stories amongst all those available on ASSTR, ca. 2500 files all in all. Still, we have around 20K monthly visitors and they access on average 40K stories per month. Granted, not everyone wants to connect to Tor, but I think people seriously need to understand that we're no longer living in the 90s and things have changed to the worse for us in terms of having a place for our stories on the normal web - especially if it must be freely available.
Because I run the PZA server from home, there is virtually no cost involved - I need access to the internet anyway, and it's a low-power desktop computer that runs the web and database server. And because of this, I do not rely on reader donations - in fact I don't want any as it would mean sticking my neck out in the open.
I wouldn't mind help developing a new server if it comes to that, although I'd much prefer if asstr gets back to 'normal' again, even with all of its missing functionality.
/P. Writer
PZA Site admin
douglas....@gmail.com
Mar 23, 2021, 4:14:40 PM3/23/21
to
Y Lee Coyote
Mar 24, 2021, 9:14:36 AM3/24/21
to
On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 12:02:04 -0700 (PDT), "P. Writer" <pw81...@gmail.com>
wrote in <627709ac-81a7-4ee0...@googlegroups.com>:
>Back in 2018, when I proposed to make a server like ASSTR and run it on the Tor network I was mocked and laughed at and people claimed no-one would want to go there to read stories.
>
>Well, I decided to go solo and create a new home for PZA Boy Stories - on the Tor network. If you wish to see it, you can go to htt://7h6xs7vpc2qlmm4r2oxfpme3xmj2zvorgu2gwxe6uvq47fk3463qzdad.onion in Tor Browser, or via https://pzaboystoravp2rz.tor2web.io/ in any normal browser - the tor2web gateway link can be somewhat unstable.
>
>Now, please keep in mind, PZA is but a small collection of stories amongst all those available on ASSTR, ca. 2500 files all in all. Still, we have around 20K monthly visitors and they access on average 40K stories per month. Granted, not everyone wants to connect to Tor, but I think people seriously need to understand that we're no longer living in the 90s and things have changed to the worse for us in terms of having a place for our stories on the normal web - especially if it must be freely available.
>
>Because I run the PZA server from home, there is virtually no cost involved - I need access to the internet anyway, and it's a low-power desktop computer that runs the web and database server. And because of this, I do not rely on reader donations - in fact I don't want any as it would mean sticking my neck out in the open.
>
>I wouldn't mind help developing a new server if it comes to that, although I'd much prefer if asstr gets back to 'normal' again, even with all of its missing functionality.
>
>/P. Writer
>PZA Site admin
I think that you underestimate the traffic needs. I don't have overall
ASSTR stats but I average over 75K hits/month with 900 stories which is
surely a small percent of the total volume. I'll note it is higher than
PZA which is a very specialized site and has very large files.
At a minimum I would GUESS that the overall traffic is at least 500 times
greater than you see and maybe even a 5000 times greater. One would need a
very high speed link which could be available for residential service. I
will note that upload speed is usually much less than download speed which
is good for normal residential use but the reverse of what the ASSTR server
needs. Additionally, some residential service contracts prohibit servers
so one must go commercial. There would be need to have multiple drives and
management software.
The system would also need good security since ASSTR is a target site.
I don't want to sound like a wet blanket but there is a lot to consider.
Y
Y.
Valid return address is <YLeeCoyote (at) juno.com>
(Posting address is for the spammers)
See my stories at http://www.asstr.org/~YLeeCoyote/
P & E
wrote in <627709ac-81a7-4ee0...@googlegroups.com>:
>Back in 2018, when I proposed to make a server like ASSTR and run it on the Tor network I was mocked and laughed at and people claimed no-one would want to go there to read stories.
>
>Well, I decided to go solo and create a new home for PZA Boy Stories - on the Tor network. If you wish to see it, you can go to htt://7h6xs7vpc2qlmm4r2oxfpme3xmj2zvorgu2gwxe6uvq47fk3463qzdad.onion in Tor Browser, or via https://pzaboystoravp2rz.tor2web.io/ in any normal browser - the tor2web gateway link can be somewhat unstable.
>
>Now, please keep in mind, PZA is but a small collection of stories amongst all those available on ASSTR, ca. 2500 files all in all. Still, we have around 20K monthly visitors and they access on average 40K stories per month. Granted, not everyone wants to connect to Tor, but I think people seriously need to understand that we're no longer living in the 90s and things have changed to the worse for us in terms of having a place for our stories on the normal web - especially if it must be freely available.
>
>Because I run the PZA server from home, there is virtually no cost involved - I need access to the internet anyway, and it's a low-power desktop computer that runs the web and database server. And because of this, I do not rely on reader donations - in fact I don't want any as it would mean sticking my neck out in the open.
>
>I wouldn't mind help developing a new server if it comes to that, although I'd much prefer if asstr gets back to 'normal' again, even with all of its missing functionality.
>
>/P. Writer
>PZA Site admin
ASSTR stats but I average over 75K hits/month with 900 stories which is
surely a small percent of the total volume. I'll note it is higher than
PZA which is a very specialized site and has very large files.
At a minimum I would GUESS that the overall traffic is at least 500 times
greater than you see and maybe even a 5000 times greater. One would need a
very high speed link which could be available for residential service. I
will note that upload speed is usually much less than download speed which
is good for normal residential use but the reverse of what the ASSTR server
needs. Additionally, some residential service contracts prohibit servers
so one must go commercial. There would be need to have multiple drives and
management software.
The system would also need good security since ASSTR is a target site.
I don't want to sound like a wet blanket but there is a lot to consider.
Y
Y.
Valid return address is <YLeeCoyote (at) juno.com>
(Posting address is for the spammers)
See my stories at http://www.asstr.org/~YLeeCoyote/
P & E
Teddy Larsen
Mar 24, 2021, 1:00:43 PM3/24/21
to
> I think that you underestimate the traffic needs. I don't have overall
> ASSTR stats but I average over 75K hits/month with 900 stories which is
> surely a small percent of the total volume. I'll note it is higher than
> PZA which is a very specialized site and has very large files.
> At a minimum I would GUESS that the overall traffic is at least 500 times
> greater than you see and maybe even a 5000 times greater. One would need a
> very high speed link which could be available for residential service. I
> will note that upload speed is usually much less than download speed which
> is good for normal residential use but the reverse of what the ASSTR server
> needs. Additionally, some residential service contracts prohibit servers
> so one must go commercial. There would be need to have multiple drives and
> management software.
>
> The system would also need good security since ASSTR is a target site.
>
> I don't want to sound like a wet blanket but there is a lot to consider.
I'm not saying that what works for PZA will work for everyone. I'm simply suggesting that people think outside the box instead of insisting that things just cannot be done when they clearly can.
> ASSTR stats but I average over 75K hits/month with 900 stories which is
> surely a small percent of the total volume. I'll note it is higher than
> PZA which is a very specialized site and has very large files.
> At a minimum I would GUESS that the overall traffic is at least 500 times
> greater than you see and maybe even a 5000 times greater. One would need a
> very high speed link which could be available for residential service. I
> will note that upload speed is usually much less than download speed which
> is good for normal residential use but the reverse of what the ASSTR server
> needs. Additionally, some residential service contracts prohibit servers
> so one must go commercial. There would be need to have multiple drives and
> management software.
>
> The system would also need good security since ASSTR is a target site.
>
> I don't want to sound like a wet blanket but there is a lot to consider.
Your note about internet speed is valid only when considering adsl and possible cable. For instance, my house is connected to the internet with a 200 Mbit/s synchronious fiber connection, of which I've never seen PZA utilize more than 1-2 Mb/s in very short bursts, that's including the Tor encryption overhead. Fiber connections are more the norm in the country where I live now, than old copper based connections.
Granted, if I were to try and host all of asstr, my little server would not be sufficient, and that's not what I'm suggesting.
But, perhaps, instead of having one single massive web server handle all sites that are presently on ASSTR, why not spread out the load to several smaller servers? You could have an index of all the sites on one server, which would be the point of entry, and depending on which site the user wants to visit, he/she will be directed to a different server. There are many options.
And, by the way, I kind of do this professionally, too. I can however see that people are just as stubborn as they were last time. So, here's hoping Rey Del Sexo will do something quickly.
/P.
Maracorby
Mar 27, 2021, 2:47:12 PM3/27/21
to
What if the content were hosted in a decentralized way - maybe some more people on Tors (I need to read up on them), some on blogging platforms here and there, maybe some host their own sites. It's not ideal, but it might be the only path forward.
If that were the case, is there any place that we could reasonably set up as a hub, to announce/discuss/review stories?
Do you suppose we could get away with creating a ASSTR subreddit, where taboo stories aren't hosted, but they are discussed and linked? Perhaps with rules about not quoting the less acceptable parts, and spoiler tags, etc?
Or if not Reddit, is there somewhere else that might do? Or maybe someone can set up their own server for that purpose?
Just brainstorming.
Maracorby
If that were the case, is there any place that we could reasonably set up as a hub, to announce/discuss/review stories?
Do you suppose we could get away with creating a ASSTR subreddit, where taboo stories aren't hosted, but they are discussed and linked? Perhaps with rules about not quoting the less acceptable parts, and spoiler tags, etc?
Or if not Reddit, is there somewhere else that might do? Or maybe someone can set up their own server for that purpose?
Just brainstorming.
Maracorby
Mistral Adult
Mar 28, 2021, 2:36:51 AM3/28/21
to
Hi Maracorby,
I am already linking ASSTR stories from external site. And as the page does not host any taboo story, there is no problem doing that: adult.mon-info.eu
Technically, it woyuld not be a probleme to link a story, wherever it is located. More problematic would be with changing links or links disappearing after days/weeks.
I am already linking ASSTR stories from external site. And as the page does not host any taboo story, there is no problem doing that: adult.mon-info.eu
Technically, it woyuld not be a probleme to link a story, wherever it is located. More problematic would be with changing links or links disappearing after days/weeks.
Maracorby
Mar 29, 2021, 7:07:02 PM3/29/21
to
> Hi Maracorby,
>
> I am already linking ASSTR stories from external site. And as the page does not host any taboo story, there is no problem doing that: adult.mon-info.eu
>
> Technically, it woyuld not be a probleme to link a story, wherever it is located. More problematic would be with changing links or links disappearing after days/weeks.
Thanks - I'll definitely keep that in mind.
>
> I am already linking ASSTR stories from external site. And as the page does not host any taboo story, there is no problem doing that: adult.mon-info.eu
>
> Technically, it woyuld not be a probleme to link a story, wherever it is located. More problematic would be with changing links or links disappearing after days/weeks.
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