ASSTR Replacement - Thoughts

[sfmaster]

I'm glad to see that efforts are underway for a asstr replacement.

But there are issues that have to be thought of now, not later.

For starters, all pedo and incest fiction has to go. We all have have read about how MR Double is in a Federal Prison. All it's going to take will be one complaint, and the website host will pull the site. You can argue the First Amendment all you like, but in today's political climate, with teachers and librarians being accused of being "groomers"; of public libraries and schools under attack - this is a problem we don't need.

Just look up the article on Huffpost about the right-wing attacks on public libraries.

Copyright - you just can't pull the content from asstr (wabac machine) - even if it no longer exists - and put it on another website - since by posting it to asstr (implied permission) they did not give permission for it to be posted elsewhere.

Format - back in 1996 I was advised to use .rtf; several years ago, after submitting "Davinia" an asstr moderator wrote me back about why I was using that format - he said to use .doc - which I have used ever since.

I say every post has to be moderated, and FTP worked just fine. If it's isn't broke, don't fix it.

sfmaster

[Y Lee Coyote]

On Sat, 6 Aug 2022 06:58:38 -0700 (PDT), sfmaster <adult...@gmail.com>
wrote in <cb8dfb78-f927-47be...@googlegroups.com>:

You have spoken of many political/legal issue which I can not speak
authoritatively about.

One thing I will mention is that I have seen images on ASSTR that a
definitely adult porn type. Perhaps there are juvenile ones also. I
definitely agree that they belong elsewhere.

Dropping kids and incest would make the archive unnecessary as there are
several archives that already handle that. I'm not sure Mr.Double is a
good example. I recall that the news stories indicated that he did more
than just post stories about kids. I don't know any more.

Again, IANAL, but I think it would be possible to transfer the posts from
ASSTR in bulk as a "successor depository".

The use of doc (and it successor, DOCX) format is a terrible idea. Those
formats are PREPARATORY and not everyone can read them. They are MS WORD
bloated formats – often with personal info included – and there are many
programs that can handle them but who knows about the future. RTF was
designed to be an interchange format and everyone can handle it without
hassle. You were given bad advice, IMHO.

The best format is HTML that is fully compliant with the W3C Standards. It
is unlikely that they will be not be supported in the future. The current
browsers all have a quirks mode which handles the coded messes from the
last century when Netscape and IE where fighting. Firefox displays the
mode that in ‘page info'.

FTP is broke so we must move on to SFTP or FTPS or similar. My ftp agent
(Filezilla) will do that and I guess most others will also.

Finally, I delighted that replacement is being worked on. Thank you to you
all.

Y.
P&E
See my stories at https://www.asstr.org/~YLeeCoyote/
Opps -- ASSTR is down use backup site at http://yleecoyote.liveblog365.com/

[Admiral Cartwright]

I will pull my presence completely from any incomplete (censored) "replacement".

[Maracorby]

Regarding text format: There's a lot to be said for raw HTML hosting, like ASSTR did. But that does perhaps give the author more freedom to do annoying or sneaky things. And it's not the easiest form to write in, and has a learning curve.

If I were going to pick a preferred format these days, I'd go with MarkDown. There are tons of automatic converters for it to HTML. It's easy to write in directly. I'm not sure if office apps support it much, but there may be converters there, too. It gives a great deal of simple formatting power but it's limited enough to avoid abuses.

[Tap Dance]

From what I recall Mr. Double was raided/arrested due to CP and child molestation and NOT because the the literature hosted on the site. As long as there is no picture hosting of underage persons and the normal disclaimers are attached, I don't see a problem with it.

Copyright might be an issue, but for the most part, I assume that as long as the author hasn't been active in the last 5ish+ years and there isn't any monetary gains from hosting the stories, it shouldn't be a problem. If someone does have a problem, they can just reach out the the hostmaster @ domain to request a copyrighted material be removed. Some Dude should also include a standard copyright disclaimers/DMCA noticees

TapDancer

[Mecca B]

I agree that copyright is a concern when scraping websites. It could be done initially, but if the site gained any amount of traffic, there could be issues with IP.

Reading about Mr Double is shocking and should be deeply concerning for anyone who cares about the First Amendment, but I don't see any purpose to creating another erotica website that has limits on content. There's a million sites like that already.

[sfmaster]

Over the weekend I received several emails asking why I was so concerned about incest/pedo fiction.

From 1982 to 1994, I made a nice piece of change writing letters for the adult magazines: Hustler; Hustler Taboo; Penthouse; Leg Show; Club (never cracked Playboy however). I had to save all my receipts, and declared it as extra income on my taxes.

These were the writer's guidelines from the magazines: no incest or pedo; all characters over the age of 18 or better 21; no erotic death or sexual violence.

By accident I had written in a story I sent to Hustler Taboo that a girl was turned on sexually by the smell of rubber while working at her family's tire store while still in High School - that got me a quick phone call from the Associate Editor.

Ever since then, when I outline a story I create a specific character list listing age, height, hair color, eyes, weight, etc. This way all of my characters are adults.

The political point that I was making is that things have changed. Do we really want Marjorie Taylor Greene attacking the site for objectionable content on TV?

Just look at the website Book Riot - and check your cell phone for the Smart News app - and you'll see daily attacks on public school; libraries; teachers; and librarians. Which are the Right's current targets.

sfmaster (at) att.net

[Admiral Cartwright]

MTG and the christofascists can go fuck themselves. The sooner, the better.

We're not talking about mainstreaming anything; we're talking about the potential replacement of a site that requires the unfamiliar to search for it.

Mecca nails it: "I don't see any purpose to creating another erotica website that has limits on content. There's a million sites like that already."

—AC

[Chris H]

And to this I would add, Marjorie Taylor Greene was apparently unaware that ASSTR existed, or at least never found reason to mention it in public up until now, so she isn't any more likely to be aware of or mention a successor now.

Now, IANAL, and I understand that the definition of "obscenity" is loose enough that a prosecutor in a close primary and a desire for a 5 o'clock news splash can make life living hell for anyone they want, even if the courts ultimately send them back down to earth... But the problem that professional sites have with incest and bestiality and the other taboos has to do with advertisers and credit card processing companies, moreso than federales knocking down their doors late at night. Or to put it another way, if you want to make money off of what we do, you're probably in the wrong business.

~CH

[Mecca B]

Agreed to what the others are saying. Additionally, while Mr. Double's incarceration seems both unconstitutional and creates a "crime" out of what most of us have done at one point, even accidentally, his circumstances were quite different. He had a paid site, which draws more attention. One of his charges were for "obscene visual representations of the sexual abuse of a child". Despite those images probably being harmless because they were drawn, this isn't something we'd have to worry about if this site doesn't host images. Lolicon has long been arguably illegal in the US. Technically, any pornography is illegal if it doesn't pass the Miller test. Lastly, Mr. Double was accused of assaulting two women, one of them being a child at the time. To me, this sounds like the guy did some bad things in real life, but they couldn't prove it, so they arrested him on trumped up charges.

Yes, there is real danger here hosting an erotica site today, and usually I'm of the mind "better safe than sorry". But this danger has existed since at least the early 2000s, when John Ashcroft was putting producers of hardcore, but otherwise legal, porn in jail. ASSTR hasn't had any issues so far, to my knowledge. And you don't have to use this site.

[Some Dude]

My ultimate goal with Alt Sex Story Literary Repository (ASSLR) is to be a place which isn't filtered and aligns with free speech laws in the US. While there is plenty of content which could be hosted which I don't personally agree with, I also don't want to stand in the way. I know there are people out there, authors and readers alike, who benefit from even unsavory content which is becoming harder to reach. I'd rather people have an outlet through this site vs trying to find it by other means.

The site will remain completely free and donation driven to prevent issues. If it takes off, a non-profit will be established to manage finances. A big focus on individual privacy and organizational transparency will be taken. A no adult themed image policy will be enforced at a code level with human moderation. Browser security policies will be used to not allow embedding from third-party sites.

If everything is done above board with proper disclaimers, I'm not worried about bad actors coming after the site. It won't be big enough to get that much attention anyway. I don't plan on allowing search crawlers to index author sites.

As for copyright, I did decide to not create a full mirror at this time. If asstr does come back, I think a copy should be made to preserve it, but I will not host without contacting an author directly. Some effort might be taken to reach out to the bigger authors to see if they would like to move.

- SD

[Kalkowll95]

asstr.xyz backup no longer works

[P. Writer]

On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 6:47:45 AM UTC+2, Some Dude wrote:

<snip>

> My ultimate goal with Alt Sex Story Literary Repository (ASSLR) is to be a place which isn't filtered and aligns with free speech laws in the US. While there is plenty of content which could be hosted which I don't personally agree with, I also don't want to stand in the way. I know there are people out there, authors and readers alike, who benefit from even unsavory content which is becoming harder to reach. I'd rather people have an outlet through this site vs trying to find it by other means.
>
> The site will remain completely free and donation driven to prevent issues. If it takes off, a non-profit will be established to manage finances. A big focus on individual privacy and organizational transparency will be taken. A no adult themed image policy will be enforced at a code level with human moderation. Browser security policies will be used to not allow embedding from third-party sites.
>
> If everything is done above board with proper disclaimers, I'm not worried about bad actors coming after the site. It won't be big enough to get that much attention anyway. I don't plan on allowing search crawlers to index author sites.
>
> As for copyright, I did decide to not create a full mirror at this time. If asstr does come back, I think a copy should be made to preserve it, but I will not host without contacting an author directly. Some effort might be taken to reach out to the bigger authors to see if they would like to move.
>
> - SD

Hi Some Dude.

I'm happy to see some effort in moving on from asstr.org. I don't think that server will reappear and frankly, I don't think of that as something wholly awful, aside from the loss of the wellknown URL, since it was in the latter years basically nothing more than an empty shell that you never could fully rely on.

I have a question or two about the new server, though, being the archivist of PZA Boy Stories (Some of those awful pedo and incest stories that sfmaster would want to ban, if it was up to him to decide, or so it seems).

Anyway, until now, you've only mentioned 'author' pages. What of the collections, such as PZA, that used to reside on asstr.org? Will they also be welcomed on asslr.org/.net?

What about story content? Some (many) of the stories in the PZA archive are of an extreme nature, which of course is not for everyone, not even for all of the readers that frequent PZA. I really don't want to place more censorship upon the authors who wish to have their stories included in the archive other than the fairly lax submission guidelines currently enforced by me and the editoral team behind PZA.

For now, PZA Boy Stories resides on my own server on Tor (7h6xs7vpc2qlmm4r2oxfpme3xmj2zvorgu2gwxe6uvq47fk3463qzdad.onion) and on https://pza.dk but I would like to be able to upload a copy of the archive to the replacement server and keep updating it monthly, like I used to do on asstr until it vanished again.

I saw you will be disallowing off-site embedding of images, do you plan to offer a visitors counter system like asstr.org had (that's high on my wishlist as I know some of the PZA authors also request this information)?

What about a comments system (This isn't so important to me as I do have one in place on pza.dk that I will probably just keep linking to, but other people might like one).

I think that was what I had to ask for now, I may think of more later.

Thanks,
P. Writer

[Chris H]

I *think* the comment thing can be solved by simply running a mailserver on the host (?). Then authors can create our own forms that forward comments to our email address. The thing about the ASSTR comments feature was that it obfuscated the author's email address, so that readers could send us comments without actually knowing our email address. Insomuch as that mattered much at all, it hasn't mattered in five years; all of my readers know my email address now, as my inbasket can attest since ASSTR went down. LOL.

A hit count mechanism ought to be easy enough to implement, too, although I have no idea what would be entailed. I assume the web server logs have this data and it would be simply a matter of writing a script to parse them (says the guy who couldn't write such a script).

I haven't had hit counts in forever, and I greatly dislike the comment feature I currently have, because in the absence of these as server-side features, they require engaging third-party commercial sites (e.g., Google), who no doubt scrap all of our users IP addresses and add them to their mountains of big data. I really don't like pretending that access to my site, and commenting on my site, is anonymous, when it actually isn't.

~CH

[P. Writer]

The comment system that I have created for PZA is fully anonymous and allows the author to receive comments even without having his email in the open. It uses protonmail to send the comments made by readers, because my server does not have its own dedicated ip, so more and more email servers rejects mails sent directly from it (A reverse IP lookup does not translate to the domain name). It's only if the author wants to reply to the comment that his email will be revealed to the reader and he could in theory use a temporary mail just for that.

My questions were aimed at SD, specifically. I know how those things could be made (I've already made them for PZA) what I want to know is if they will be available on HIS server, just to make it clear.

[Some Dude]

P. Writer,

I'm not very familiar with how collections worked on ASSTR, if you could provide more info I can probably implement it in a future iteration of the site.

I have no plans for moderating story content at this time. It would be hard to do and very subjective. There will most likely be ways to mark stories as extreme or similar which could pop up a warning or allow them to be excluded from search results or story listings for users.

Visitor counting is planned and will be implemented. An anonymous comment system will also be made available. Potentially will allow two way email anonymity, but that isn't a priority early on.

- SD

[P. Writer]

Sounds good, SD.

Well, collections was sub sites on asstr.org with a bunch of stories written by many authors. Some of the collections were Kristen's, PZA, Nepi, and more I can't remember offhand now.

If you have a "Links" page or plan on having one, I would be happy if you could just add pza.dk to that. I guess there would be no real need, or benefit, to upload the PZA stories to asslr, it's just more maintenance for me.

/P.

[Charlie]

Here are the archives I was able to find of asstr.org in case you decide to add them later. There's also asstr.xyz but it's missing a lot of older stories

https://www.reddit.com/r/DHExchange/comments/7fl535/s_entire_archive_of_asstrorg_ftp_site_up_to_may/
https://archive.org/details/falconk_archivebot_www_asstr_org_20171210
https://archive.org/details/warc_www_asstr_org-files_20151227

[Vance]

On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 9:58:41 AM UTC-4, adult...@gmail.com wrote:
> I'm glad to see that efforts are underway for a asstr replacement.
>

> For starters, all pedo and incest fiction has to go.

Pedo I agree. Incest less so, but there's way too much of it in other sites; I think lazy writers use it.

Van

[HBB Writes]

> > For starters, all pedo and incest fiction has to go.
> Pedo I agree. Incest less so, but there's way too much of it in other sites; I think lazy writers use it.

Disagree, on both counts. If only because that would pretty much disqualify a huge chunk, if not a majority, of exactly the kind of material I've always went to sites like ASSTR and Nifty for, in the first place. Not to mention my one and only story to ever make it onto ASSTR -- right before the whole site went down, in fact! -- which would likely have indeed ticked both the "pedo" and "incest" checkboxes, by most people's standards. Originally published on another site, but edited to add some extra "taboo" content for the ASSTR version, just to take *advantage* of that greater freedom in guidelines...but, I digress.

An ASSTR replacement lacking in the permissive content guidelines of the original would be pointless and defeat the purpose; that freedom and leeway with regard to story content was one of ASSTR's primary benefits. Some months back, while the site was still up, I actually clicked the link to apply for an author account, a function which I later discovered has been fubar for years. Somewhere down the line, I do hope to eventually apply for a new author account on ASSLR, but that's largely because SD stated that he has "no plans for moderating story content at this time," which is one of the primary appealing qualities of such a site.

I do understand concerns about the site coming under attack by various offended "do-gooders" out there, but I still believe permissiveness around story content is the right choice here. It's a losing game to acquiesce and "bend the knee" to the morality police; instead of us kissing the ring, we should be telling THEM to kiss our ass! <lol>

[Physical Ocean Man]

100%

For those of you who want a website that allows incest but nothing more taboo than that, I'd suggest going to https://literotica.com/beta/stories/

Besides Nifty (which doesn't seem to have much straight content...), I don't really know of a place that has the stories ASSTR had. This is possibly all there is, and otherwise there's not much point in making a replacement website.

[P. Writer]

That story content is even a focus for debate makes me so much more happier to just keep PZA on my own server. There has been made zero attempts to attack it, even after it was opened to regular https traffic. What is written in a story is fiction, so if you don't like it, you can choose to simply not read it. But, please for the love of everything holy, don't try to stop others from reading what they want.

[Some Dude]

People can have their opinions all they want, but I will say ASSLR will not censor the written word. If it's legal to write about under US law, it will be allowed. The only hard rule is no adult themed images. I'm not putting in all this effort just to make another story site like the other 1000's which already exist.

If you want another place to gain more readers in the future, PZA is welcome on ASSLR.

- SD

[Y Lee Coyote]

On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 14:40:24 -0700 (PDT), Some Dude
<somedu...@gmail.com> wrote in
<de1a59cf-c80b-4233...@googlegroups.com>:

<snip>

>People can have their opinions all they want, but I will say ASSLR will not censor the written word. If it's legal to write about under US law, it will be allowed. The only hard rule is no adult themed images. I'm not putting in all this effort just to make another story site like the other 1000's which already exist.

<snip>
>- SD

SD,

Thanks for that definitive statement which as site owner you have the sole
right and authority to make.

Please make a clarification of the term <<adult themed images>>.

I assume you are prohibiting two or more people interacting sexually in a
photo. What about drawings in the traditional manor? Computer generated
images?

Are solo images of adults with or without erections or beaver shots
permitted?

TIA

Y

[alvot...@gmail.com]

I second Y Lee's request for clarification of the phrase "adult themed images," simply because it would be very helpful to start off with clarity. I don't have a strong opinion about what the answer is.

-Alvo

[Some Dude]

My thoughts were no photos beyond ones which support the website design (backgrounds, logos, etc.). These cannot have nudity or show sexual acts of any kind (solo or group). Doesn't matter if computer generated, actual photo, or hand drawn.

Images are a grey area for this site and I'm not sure I want to defend their use. I don't see them as necessary for a story site and can cause controversy in the future.

If an author already on ASSLR has images on their site, it's ok for the time being. A content moderation system will be added which will catch them in the near future.

These rules will be added to the public site so there is no confusion. Maybe will add them to the forum so people can know about it sooner. Obviously things are still being solidified so will take a bit to work out all the details.

- SD

[HBB Writes]

On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:16:53 PM UTC-4, Some Dude wrote:
<snip>

> My thoughts were no photos beyond ones which support the website design (backgrounds, logos, etc.). These cannot have nudity or show sexual acts of any kind (solo or group). Doesn't matter if computer generated, actual photo, or hand drawn.

Two possible "compromises" one might ponder:

(A) Clickable links (i.e., HTML <a> elements) to URLs for images that are specifically hosted OFF-site -- on locations such as Imgur, Pixiv, etc.
(B) If you're concerned about other webpages reading (and unfavorably utilizing) the "Referer" data, from a link-based HTTP request originating from ASSLR, then yet *another* alternative might be some type of "cold link" instead...
+ ...where only the URL text, thus *not* a clickable link, is provided.
+ ...so that an interested reader will have to copy the URL and paste into their browser's address field.

> Images are a grey area for this site and I'm not sure I want to defend their use. I don't see them as necessary for a story site and can cause controversy in the future.

I *do* appreciate where you're coming from, but I would also like to respectfully offer a diverging opinion: For a certain handful of readers, if only a minority, the inclusion of images genuinely contributes to the story and measurably enhances our subjective reading experience. Even if the image is not directly embedded in the story and therefore visible, having some "visual reference" to consult before/during reading has a "value-added" effect for story immersion and increases subjective enjoyment of it. It's a practice I appreciate when utilized by other writers, and something I use occasionally in my own stories, as well.

To put it another way: There is the old cliche that "A picture is worth a thousand words," but I fully believe there's considerable truth in it, especially when it comes to story characters. If an author devotes 639 words to well-written and rich descriptive detail, then for a certain subset of readers, some referenced imagery may helpfully provide the remaining 361...figuratively speaking, at any rate! Thus, I will concede that images are not *strictly* necessary, but I also feel like they have some place for legitimately adding value to the reading experience.

That said, I also completely sympathize with any and all concerns around images, problems and potential controversy, so I understand the importance of prioritizing the site's protection and overall well-being, first and foremost. I did want to share my "two cents" on the topic, but either way, I will respect and support whatever decisions/judgment calls you make about these matters. Keep fighting the good fight!

[P. Writer]

Thanks SD.
We currently have 1k+ individual daily visits to PZA, so for now, I think a link will suffice. I'll change the now defunct link on PZA to asstr.org to asslr in return :-)

/P Writer

[Ian Hogben]

having trouble getting the link to work

[P. Writer]

On Sunday, August 28, 2022 at 6:37:15 PM UTC+2, Ian Hogben wrote:

> having trouble getting the link to work

What link might that be?

[Me]

On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 10:30:45 AM UTC-5, HBB Writes wrote:
> > > For starters, all pedo and incest fiction has to go.
> > Pedo I agree. Incest less so, but there's way too much of it in other sites; I think lazy writers use it.
> Disagree, on both counts.

I don't know about it's Legality but can we at least ensure stuff involving adults and children is clearly marked? Personally I would rather avoid that entirely and not have to open a story to see it involves that kind of content.

But on that note, can there please be some organization, even if it is just requiring story tags and or a short summary

[P. Writer]

Oh for heaven's sake... Did you EVER visit asstr.org? There was intergenerational sex in abundance. Sometimes I wonder why people would even want a new server when they could just as well post their stories on some wordpress site... Sigh. My rant is over and this will be my last post in this group.
You know where to find me if needed. /P. Writer

[hardguy]

I'm quite surprised nobody has mentioned Archive of Our Own (archiveofourown.org) as a place for posting stories with zero censorship. I started posting my original content there exclusively nearly 2 years ago after ASSTR was looking more and more decrepit and once I sussed out that AO3 is not a purely derivative fanfiction site and allows original works without content limitations. The site is committed to free speech, has a commenting system, ratings, content tagging, author subscriptions, bookmarking and more. For me, it's nearly a writer's paradise, with only the lack of allowing me to have a writer's blog or being able to post status updates being the downside.

[rdodger]

On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 12:37:53 AM UTC-5, hardg...@gmail.com wrote:
> I'm quite surprised nobody has mentioned Archive of Our Own (archiveofourown.org) as a place for posting stories with zero censorship. I started posting my original content there exclusively nearly 2 years ago after ASSTR was looking more and more decrepit and once I sussed out that AO3 is not a purely derivative fanfiction site and allows original works without content limitations. The site is committed to free speech, has a commenting system, ratings, content tagging, author subscriptions, bookmarking and more. For me, it's nearly a writer's paradise, with only the lack of allowing me to have a writer's blog or being able to post status updates being the downside.

I looked at AO3 but I didn't see any helpful way to go looking for adult/erotic material. So I gave up on that idea.
RD

[Hard Guy]

Browse menu, select 'Tags.' The 'Sexual Content' tag there looks pretty big and obvious to me.

[rdodger]

Yeah but out of the 700,000 stories there's no way to mask out all the fanfic stuff so I can find what I might be looking for. I've taken about 15 passes, adding more exclusions each time, and I'm still at 300,000 stories and the first page is almost all - currently video games, Silmarillion takeoff, other things that didn't show up in the first filter display. It doesn't seem workable. Certainly not to give other people a place to see my stories - they wouldn't be able to find them.

[Fygero Author]

On Monday, September 19, 2022 at 7:42:59 AM UTC+10, rdodger wrote:

> Yeah but out of the 700,000 stories there's no way to mask out all the fanfic stuff so I can find what I might be looking for. I've taken about 15 passes, adding more exclusions each time, and I'm still at 300,000 stories and the first page is almost all - currently video games, Silmarillion takeoff, other things that didn't show up in the first filter display. It doesn't seem workable. Certainly not to give other people a place to see my stories - they wouldn't be able to find them.

Use the 'No Fandom' or 'Original Work' fandoms
https://archiveofourown.org/tags/No%20Fandom/works
https://archiveofourown.org/tags/Original%20Work/works

Stories can be posted to multiple fandoms, so some turkeys use Original Work in combo with actual fandoms. 'No Fandom' is more reliable way to find fanfic-free stories.

[Chris H]

AO3 is a nice site, and has some advantages, but it is ultimately a fan fic site, not an original work erotica site. By using it for original work erotica, you run the risk that at some point they might decide that they don't want to be in the original work erotica "business" (which would hardly be surprising -- even the dirtiest fan fic is still just fan fic, whereas, original work erotica is much more like "porn"). That they haven't banned or deleted original work erotica yet is a good sign, but it's not a guarantee.

If you want to post there, go for it, but definitely retain local copies of your work, and we should not consider it a viable alternative to ASSTR. If suddenly AO3 were to get the massive crush of content and readers that ASSTR had (at least in its heyday), this would likely be what would push them over the edge to codifying and enforcing their "fan fic only" ethos.

[Stephen Ng]

> AO3

It has a robust functionality when it comes to tagging, and certainly a lot better in layout than Shit-tier-rotica (Literotica), which I will never send content to.

[Santayana]

On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 14:40:24 -0700 (PDT), Some Dude <somedu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> People can have their opinions all they want, but I will say ASSLR will
> not censor the written word. If it's legal to write about under US law,
> it will be allowed.

Determing what is legal under U.S. law is problematic, due to the 'community
standards' provisions outlined in Miller.

"It's probably the only law I'm aware of, if a client shows me a
book or magazine or movie, and asks me if this image is illegal,
I can't tell them," says Eric Chase, Handley's attorney.

Handley was convicted for importing Japanese manga. I would argue that
virtually the only way to know what is prohibited is a ruling from a
U.S. court that the materials in question have been found obscene.

That would *automatically* exclude Frank McCoy's writing, as well as that
written and/or hosted by Mr. Double, as both have been condemned as obscene
by U.S. courts, and therefore illegal.

> The only hard rule is no adult themed images. I'm not putting in all this
> effort just to make another story site like the other 1000's which already
> exist.

Might be better just to ban all images, period.

[Santayana]

On Sun, 7 Aug 2022 15:52:25 -0700 (PDT), Tap Dance said:

> On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 5:58:41 AM UTC-8, adult...@gmail.com wrote:
>> I'm glad to see that efforts are underway for a asstr replacement.
>>

>> But there are issues that have to be thought of now, not later.
>>
>> For starters, all pedo and incest fiction has to go. We all have have
>> read about how MR Double is in a Federal Prison. All it's going to take
>> will be one complaint, and the website host will pull the site. You can
>> argue the First Amendment all you like, but in today's political
>> climate, with teachers and librarians being accused of being "groomers";
>> of public libraries and schools under attack - this is a problem we
>> don't need.

At the very least, all of Mr. Double's material and those of Frank McCoy
need to be removed as well. These materials have been adjudicated as
obscene, and therefore have no First Amendment protections whatsoever.

[snip]

> From what I recall Mr. Double was raided/arrested due to CP and child
> molestation and NOT because the the literature hosted on the site. As long
> as there is no picture hosting of underage persons and the normal
> disclaimers are attached, I don't see a problem with it.

This is incorrect -- here are the details of the criminal charges from
Arthur's attempt at reversal at the Court of Appeals.

* "Counts 2-6 were premised on five separate stories posted on the site,
though not written by Arthur."

* The Government also introduced two stories at trial written by Arthur,
which formed part of the basis for the allegation in Count 7.


Thomas Alan Arthur, Defendant -- Appellant.

Appeal from the United States District Court
for the Western District of Texas
USDC No. 4:19-CR-774-1

Before Davis, Dennis, and Higginson, Circuit Judges.

Stephen A. Higginson, Circuit Judge:

A jury convicted Thomas Alan Arthur of three counts of producing,
distributing, receiving, and possessing an obscene visual depiction
of a minor engaged in sexually explicit conduct, in violation
of 18 U.S.C. § 1466A(a)(1);

| five counts of using an interactive computer service to transport
| obscene matters, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1462(a);

This is precisely the same charge that was used to convict Frank McCoy. You
may recall that McCoy's stories were strictly text-only -- they were not
illustrated in any way.

and one count of engaging in the business of selling or transferring
obscene matters, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1466(a).

On appeal, Arthur challenges his conviction and sentence. We AFFIRM in
part and REVERSE in part.

I. From the 1990s through 2019, Thomas Alan Arthur operated a website
called “Mr. Double.” At the time of the FBI investigation into Arthur,
the website contained over 25,000 erotic stories, written by several
thousand authors who contributed to the site. Many of the stories on
the site included graphic depictions of rape, murder, and sexual abuse
of children. Authors submitted stories to the site through a form or
by email, and Arthur then uploaded the stories to the site. Authors
could maintain a profile on the site that included a picture or avatar.
While some content on the site was available to anyone for free, full
access required a paid subscription.

In November 2019, FBI agents executed a search warrant at Arthur’s
home in Terlingua, Texas. That same month, Arthur was indicted by a
federal grand jury in the Western District of Texas. A nine-count
second superseding indictment was filed in October 2020. The second
superseding indictment charged Arthur with three counts of producing,
distributing, receiving, and possessing an obscene visual depiction
of a minor engaged in sexually explicit conduct, in violation of
18 U.S.C. § 1466A(a)(1) (Counts 1, 8, and 9); five counts of using an
interactive computer service to transport obscene matters, in
violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1462(a) (Counts 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6); and
one count of engaging in the business of selling or transferring
obscene matters, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1466(a) (Count 7).

Counts 1, 8, and 9 were premised on drawings used as profile pictures
by three authors on Arthur’s website,

| while Counts 2-6 were premised on five separate stories posted on
| the site, though not written by Arthur. The Government also introduced
| two stories at trial written by Arthur, which formed part of the basis
| for the allegation in Count 7.

https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/ca5/21-50607/21-50607-2022-10-12.html

[Felipe Turquize]

> | while Counts 2-6 were premised on five separate stories posted on
> | the site, though not written by Arthur. The Government also introduced
> | two stories at trial written by Arthur, which formed part of the basis
> | for the allegation in Count 7.

Is is possible to find out the title of the 5 stories posted on the site by others and the 2 written by Arthur?

[Santayana]

<4dddfbfd-f7e7-4f5e...@googlegroups.com>

On Mon, 9 Jan 2023 20:14:32 -0800 (PST),Felipe Turquize <ftur...@gmail.com> said:

>> | while Counts 2-6 were premised on five separate stories posted on
>> | the site, though not written by Arthur. The Government also introduced
>> | two stories at trial written by Arthur, which formed part of the basis
>> | for the allegation in Count 7.
>

> Is is possible to find out the title of the 5 stories posted on the site
> by others and the 2 written by Arthur?

Here is the information I believe that you are looking for:

The court exhibits published below reveal that stories #1-5 are:

Story 1 -- "A Spectacle to Beat All Others" by babyNpop

Story 2 -- "Baby Wank" by Evil Dad

Story 3 -- "Buttfucking a 10-Year-Old Girl" by Steven Seven

Story 4 -- "Replacing My Wife -- She Had it Coming" by BabyRaper

Story 5 -- "The Baby Mangler" by Lachurna

I believe that 'Child Raper' and 'Ally and Her Dad' may be the two stories
allegedly written by Mr. Double which formed part of the basis for the
allegation in Count 7.

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16474360/74/united-states-v-arthur/


Case 4:19-cr-00774-DC Document 74 Filed 01/12/21 Page 1 of 7




UNITED STATES’ LIST OF EXHIBITS

UNITED STATES v. THOMAS ALAN ARTHUR

JUDGE DAVID COUNTS NO. 4:19-CR-774

WESTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS DATE: January 19, 2021

GOV DESCRIPTION OF OBJECT OR IDENTIFIED EVIDENCE RULING WITNESS ON STAND
ITEM
9/25/2019 Screen capture –
1 Ewan, Jeremy
Screen names – 8:08

9/25/2019 Screen capture –
2 Ewan, Jeremy
Forum registration – 5:18

9/25/2019 Screen capture –
3 Ewan, Jeremy
Member services – 2:06

9/25/2019 Screen capture –
4 Ewan, Jeremy
Stories – 5:29

A – Story 1 – “A Spectacle to
Beat All Others” by babyNpop Ewan, Jeremy
5A-C
B – Story Locations Nishida, Brian
C – Word cloud Downie, Alice
A – Story 2 – “Baby Wank” by
Ewan, Jeremy
Evil Dad
6A-C Nishida, Brian
B – Story Locations
Downie, Alice
C – Word cloud
 Case 4:19-cr-00774-DC Document 74 Filed 01/12/21 Page 2 of 7




UNITED STATES’ LIST OF EXHIBITS

UNITED STATES v. THOMAS ALAN ARTHUR

JUDGE DAVID COUNTS NO. 4:19-CR-774

WESTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS DATE: January 19, 2021

A – Story 3 – “Buttfucking a 10-
Ewan, Jeremy
Year-Old Girl” by Steven Seven
7A-C Nishida, Brian
B – Story Locations
Downie, Alice
C – Word cloud
A – Story 4 – “Replacing My
Wife – She Had it Coming” by Ewan, Jeremy
8A-C BabyRaper Nishida, Brian
B – Story Locations Downie, Alice
C – Word cloud
A – Story 5 – “The Baby
Ewan, Jeremy
Mangler” by Lachurna
9A-C Nishida, Brian
B – Story Locations
Downie, Alice
C – Word cloud
Ewan, Jeremy
A - Drawing 1 – Netman169
10A-B Nishida, Brian
B – Drawing locations
Downie, Alice
Ewan, Jeremy
A - Drawing 2 – Girls_suck
11A-B Nishida, Brian
B – Drawing locations
Downie, Alice
 Case 4:19-cr-00774-DC Document 74 Filed 01/12/21 Page 3 of 7




UNITED STATES’ LIST OF EXHIBITS

UNITED STATES v. THOMAS ALAN ARTHUR

JUDGE DAVID COUNTS NO. 4:19-CR-774

WESTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS DATE: January 19, 2021

Ewan, Jeremy
A - Drawing 3 – Loadthemule
12A-B Nishida, Brian
B – Drawing locations
Downie, Alice
Ewan, Jeremy
13 Articles of Incorporation Nishida, Brian
Downie, Alice

List of Story Names – Summary
14 Nishida, Brian
Chart

List of Author Names –
15 Nishida, Brian
Summary Charts

16A- 30 photos from November 7,
Ewan, Jeremy
16DD 2019 residential search
Ewan, Jeremy
Instructions on uploading to Mr.
17 Nishida, Brian
Double
Downie, Alice
 Case 4:19-cr-00774-DC Document 74 Filed 01/12/21 Page 4 of 7




UNITED STATES’ LIST OF EXHIBITS

UNITED STATES v. THOMAS ALAN ARTHUR

JUDGE DAVID COUNTS NO. 4:19-CR-774

WESTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS DATE: January 19, 2021

Authors Balance Report (129
pages)
• W9info (1999 & 2000)
• Aug99
18 • Balance Aug_Oct 2002
Downie, Alice
• Balance Aug_Oct 2003
• Balance Aug_Oct 2004
• Balance Aug_Oct 2005


19 Tax records summary chart Downie, Alice


Letter to accountant –
20 Downie, Alice
Scott2002.doc

Letter to accountant –
21A-B • Scott2003.doc Downie, Alice
• Scott2_2003.doc

Letter to accountant –
22 Downie, Alice
Scott2007.doc

Letter to accountant –
23 Downie, Alice
Scotttax2011.doc
 Case 4:19-cr-00774-DC Document 74 Filed 01/12/21 Page 5 of 7




UNITED STATES’ LIST OF EXHIBITS

UNITED STATES v. THOMAS ALAN ARTHUR

JUDGE DAVID COUNTS NO. 4:19-CR-774

WESTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS DATE: January 19, 2021

Ewan, Jeremy
24 Mr. Double website Nishida, Brian
Downie, Alice

25A-E Aerial photos pre-SW Ewan, Jeremy


26A-R Interview of Thomas Arthur Pearson, Derek

LNK files Ewan, Jeremy
- Authors Balance Report
27A-C Nishida, Brian
- Child Raper
- Ally and Her Dad Downie, Alice

Sitema2.gif (Sitemap of Mr.
28 Nishida, Brian
Double website)

29A- Ewan, Jeremy
Emails from Mr. Double
M Downie, Alice

Ewan, Jeremy
30 Ft. Davis Bank records
Downie, Alice

 Case 4:19-cr-00774-DC Document 74 Filed 01/12/21 Page 6 of 7




UNITED STATES’ LIST OF EXHIBITS

UNITED STATES v. THOMAS ALAN ARTHUR

JUDGE DAVID COUNTS NO. 4:19-CR-774

WESTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS DATE: January 19, 2021

31A- Ewan, Jeremy
Forum posts from Mr. Double
D Downie, Alice

Ewan, Jeremy
32 Aerial photo
Downie, Alice


 Case 4:19-cr-00774-DC Document 74 Filed 01/12/21 Page 7 of 7




UNITED STATES’ LIST OF EXHIBITS

UNITED STATES v. THOMAS ALAN ARTHUR

JUDGE DAVID COUNTS NO. 4:19-CR-774

WESTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS DATE: January 19, 2021


[Bear Dogg]

It can be argued that since Rufus Fugit's "Jenny's Couch" series was hosted on Mr. Double and would be considered obscene due to the subject nature in the series (bestiality, gangbangs, the uncle character taking advantage of Karen's church service by telling her it was God's will to make her a whore), ASSTR and ASSLR could be shut down for hosting Rufus' works. (I seriously thought he had been arrested for writing those stories because he disappeared less than a month after Tom Arthur's arrest.)

[Stephen Ng]

Asstr (the old site) is back up as of the start of May 2023. Not sure what went down, but their news archive only goes to 2017 about a site-wide failure. Is Rey Del Sexo still the admin & owner, or is it someone else now?