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ASSTR back up
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Ethan Edwards
Jan 18, 2023, 10:15:55 AM1/18/23
to
Some time within the past two weeks or so ASSTR came back up.
sfmaster
Jan 18, 2023, 9:07:36 PM1/18/23
to
On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 10:15:55 AM UTC-5, Ethan Edwards wrote:
> Some time within the past two weeks or so ASSTR came back up.
Please look at my recent series of posts (along with Santayana) regarding asstr. We do not know who has set up the website, why, or who is paying for it. I believe that this might be a DOJ ruse to attract authors of incest/pedo fiction.
> Some time within the past two weeks or so ASSTR came back up.
I am not going to post there, and until these basic questions are answered, I suggest you shouldn't post there, either.
Foz “Jaxah” Tacticus
Jan 19, 2023, 8:09:16 AM1/19/23
to
Y Lee Coyote
Jan 19, 2023, 10:21:17 AM1/19/23
to
On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 05:09:12 -0800 (PST), Foz “Jaxah” Tacticus
<fozz...@gmail.com> wrote in
<999c331d-dc10-4772...@googlegroups.com>:
>On Thursday, 19 January 2023 at 02:07:36 UTC, adult...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 10:15:55 AM UTC-5, Ethan Edwards wrote:
>> > Some time within the past two weeks or so ASSTR came back up.
That has been noted here several times.
>> Please look at my recent series of posts (along with Santayana) regarding asstr. We do not know who has set up the website, why, or who is paying for it. I believe that this might be a DOJ ruse to attract authors of incest/pedo fiction.
>>
>> I am not going to post there, and until these basic questions are answered, I suggest you shouldn't post there, either.
There would not be any need for DOJ to run the system as there are plenty
of incest/pedo stories that would serve such a purpose. Do you have any
evidence of such a happening or do you just like conspiracies theories?
>I also note that the ASSTR version is from 2017. That's not the same server that went down.
That is INCORRECT -- It has my updates as of July 9, 2022.
Y.
Valid return address is <YLeeCoyote (at) juno.com>
(Posting address is for the spammers)
See my stories at: https://yleecoyote.asslr.org/
Status page at: https://yleecoyote.weebly.com/
P & E
<fozz...@gmail.com> wrote in
<999c331d-dc10-4772...@googlegroups.com>:
>On Thursday, 19 January 2023 at 02:07:36 UTC, adult...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 10:15:55 AM UTC-5, Ethan Edwards wrote:
>> > Some time within the past two weeks or so ASSTR came back up.
>> Please look at my recent series of posts (along with Santayana) regarding asstr. We do not know who has set up the website, why, or who is paying for it. I believe that this might be a DOJ ruse to attract authors of incest/pedo fiction.
>>
>> I am not going to post there, and until these basic questions are answered, I suggest you shouldn't post there, either.
of incest/pedo stories that would serve such a purpose. Do you have any
evidence of such a happening or do you just like conspiracies theories?
>I also note that the ASSTR version is from 2017. That's not the same server that went down.
Y.
Valid return address is <YLeeCoyote (at) juno.com>
(Posting address is for the spammers)
See my stories at: https://yleecoyote.asslr.org/
Status page at: https://yleecoyote.weebly.com/
P & E
Chris H
Jan 19, 2023, 2:18:27 PM1/19/23
to
> That is INCORRECT -- It has my updates as of July 9, 2022.
Yep. It also contains my latest postings, immediately prior to the site going down in 2022. Plus, it has all user account information, so it is most definitely the complete server, not just a copy of the filesystem that someone downloaded and is now hosting.
I'm as concerned about recent events involving the prosecution of text-based obscenity as others, and it is something that needs to be seriously considered. On the other hand, there's plenty of reasons to debunk the idea that ASSTR is currently a "honeypot" being run by the DOJ or some other law enforcement agency to entrap authors. Let me spell out my argument:
1. Some here argue that it's suspicious that the site suddenly came online without any communication from the admin. But, in fact, anyone who's been involved with ASSTR for the last several years knows that this is *exactly* what we would expect. The last time that ASSTR went down (due to a DNS registration issue), there was also no communication whatsoever from the admin. And, after the "grand mal" failure back in 2017, the admin posted maybe twice to the yahoo group that was active at the time, and provided exactly one "News" update on the site. So going back at least five years, there has been basically no communication at all from the admin of the site.
Given the above, it would be more suspicious if we suddenly began getting all sorts of updates from someone claiming to be the admin!
2. After the "grand mal" hardware crash in 2017, almost all features of ASSTR have been nonfunctional. Most significantly, you can no longer create new user accounts. None of these features have been restored in the current version; in fact, the current version is simply and only _the exact same version_ that went down in July. I do not understand why law enforcement would choose to run the site in its current hobbled state. What kind of "honeypot" would that be? Wouldn't they at least want to fix the ability to create new user accounts?
As with the admin's current complete silence, the fact that nothing has been fixed, is exactly what we would expect from our experience over the last five years. The site has essentially been abandoned, except that every once and a while the admin notices that it's down and does the bare minimum to bring it back online.
3. Similarly to 2., ASSTR is a pale comparison to its earlier self. As of July 2022, there were only a handful of writers posting there. I would put the number at probably less than 25.
I'm not sure how many readers there are (I haven't used a hit count mechanism since the 2017 crash brought down ASSTR's native tool). But one thing's certain: The readership is no where near the size that it was at ASSTR's peak.
It just simply doesn't make any sense that the DOJ would want to run ASSTR in its current form as a "honeypot." It's an old, hobbled site, with very few contributors and probably a very small readership.
As an aside, in the examples cited for prosecution of smut writers, one thing I note is that two -- Fletcher and Mr. Double -- ran commercial sites. (I don't know about Frank McCoy). It also appears to me that the obscenity law used against Mr. Double is based on Congress's authority to regulate interstate commerce. I'm not a lawyer, and it's certainly true that today's legal climate isn't likely to be very favorable for writers of smut in general, but I suspect that one is much more vulnerable to a "Mr. Double"-style prosecution if you are running a commercial site, because the prosecution would be higher profile and therefore more impactful, and also possibly because the DOJ may be concerned that they wouldn't get a conviction, or even be able to bring charges, against an amateur.
~C
Santayana
Jan 19, 2023, 3:28:49 PM1/19/23
to
On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 10:21:10 -0500, Y Lee Coyote <See.signa...@mail.com>
said in Message-ID: <lanishhg8cvp3calh...@4ax.com>
> On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 05:09:12 -0800 (PST), Foz “Jaxah” Tacticus
> <fozz...@gmail.com> wrote in
> <999c331d-dc10-4772...@googlegroups.com>:
>
> >On Thursday, 19 January 2023 at 02:07:36 UTC, adult...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 10:15:55 AM UTC-5, Ethan Edwards
> >> wrote:
> >> > Some time within the past two weeks or so ASSTR came back up.
> That has been noted here several times.
>
> >> Please look at my recent series of posts (along with Santayana)
> >> regarding asstr. We do not know who has set up the website, why, or who
> >> is paying for it. I believe that this might be a DOJ ruse to attract
> >> authors of incest/pedo fiction.
> >>
> >> I am not going to post there, and until these basic questions are
> >> answered, I suggest you shouldn't post there, either.
>
> There would not be any need for DOJ to run the system as there are plenty
> of incest/pedo stories that would serve such a purpose.
I disagree. Materials already present on the ASSTR server (not to mention
others) would, almost certainly, have to have been uploaded/published prior
to the McCoy & Arthur cases and, more to the point, prior to both of those
criminal convictions being upheld by the Court of Appeal.
IMO, it would be more difficult to prosecute these materials, in large part
due to the difficulty of establishing provenance on materials uploaded years
earlier.
In contrast, any /new/ upload would constitute a brand-new violation of
18 USC 1462; further, uploaders would be deemed to be aware of precedents
set in both the McCoy and Arthur trial cases that were upheld by the Court
of Appeal. This would go a long way towards establishing "mens rea" or
criminal intent.
If the server is, in fact, controlled by LE, any uploader's IP address can
be captured and, coupled with the date/time of the upload, can be used to
help confirm the identify of the person who uploaded the stories.
> Do you have any evidence of such a happening or do you just like
> conspiracies theories?
He is not going to have any direct evidence, for obvious reasons, but I
believe he may have a point. After all, it's more than a little coincidental
that the ASSTR server mysteriously re-appears after the McCoy & Arthur cases
are both upheld on appeal.
Furthermore, unlike other story archives, which prohibit underage materials,
ASSTR has a reputation of NOT censoring these types of materials that were
successfully prosecuted in the above-referenced legal cases.
[snip]
Santayana
said in Message-ID: <lanishhg8cvp3calh...@4ax.com>
> On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 05:09:12 -0800 (PST), Foz “Jaxah” Tacticus
> <fozz...@gmail.com> wrote in
> <999c331d-dc10-4772...@googlegroups.com>:
>
> >On Thursday, 19 January 2023 at 02:07:36 UTC, adult...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 10:15:55 AM UTC-5, Ethan Edwards
> >> wrote:
> >> > Some time within the past two weeks or so ASSTR came back up.
> That has been noted here several times.
>
> >> Please look at my recent series of posts (along with Santayana)
> >> regarding asstr. We do not know who has set up the website, why, or who
> >> is paying for it. I believe that this might be a DOJ ruse to attract
> >> authors of incest/pedo fiction.
> >>
> >> I am not going to post there, and until these basic questions are
> >> answered, I suggest you shouldn't post there, either.
>
> There would not be any need for DOJ to run the system as there are plenty
> of incest/pedo stories that would serve such a purpose.
others) would, almost certainly, have to have been uploaded/published prior
to the McCoy & Arthur cases and, more to the point, prior to both of those
criminal convictions being upheld by the Court of Appeal.
IMO, it would be more difficult to prosecute these materials, in large part
due to the difficulty of establishing provenance on materials uploaded years
earlier.
In contrast, any /new/ upload would constitute a brand-new violation of
18 USC 1462; further, uploaders would be deemed to be aware of precedents
set in both the McCoy and Arthur trial cases that were upheld by the Court
of Appeal. This would go a long way towards establishing "mens rea" or
criminal intent.
If the server is, in fact, controlled by LE, any uploader's IP address can
be captured and, coupled with the date/time of the upload, can be used to
help confirm the identify of the person who uploaded the stories.
> Do you have any evidence of such a happening or do you just like
> conspiracies theories?
believe he may have a point. After all, it's more than a little coincidental
that the ASSTR server mysteriously re-appears after the McCoy & Arthur cases
are both upheld on appeal.
Furthermore, unlike other story archives, which prohibit underage materials,
ASSTR has a reputation of NOT censoring these types of materials that were
successfully prosecuted in the above-referenced legal cases.
[snip]
Santayana
Chris H
Jan 19, 2023, 4:59:00 PM1/19/23
to
On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 2:28:49 PM UTC-6, Santayana wrote:
> After all, it's more than a little coincidental
> that the ASSTR server mysteriously re-appears after the McCoy & Arthur cases
> are both upheld on appeal.
The McCoy appellate decision was in 2015, right? So it's hardly the case that, seven years later, ASSTR "mysteriously" reappeared after the case was upheld on appeal. The Arthur case was upheld on October 12, 2022. ASSTR had been down for around three months at that point, and did not come back online for another three months. I don't quite understand why a law enforcement agency would wait for an appeal in the Arthur case, given that the McCoy case was long ago decided (and, if I recall correctly, the Supreme Court denied cert, making it more or less established precedent), nor do I understand why they would wait three months to bring a hobbled website back online, if their goal was to use it as a honey trap. More likely, it *was* in fact a coincidence that ASSTR went down three months before the decision in the Arthur appeal was made public and came back up three months later. In fact, that's really not much of a coincidence at all. It seems quite random and unconnected.
> After all, it's more than a little coincidental
> that the ASSTR server mysteriously re-appears after the McCoy & Arthur cases
> are both upheld on appeal.
I already addressed the question of ASSTR's "mysterious reappearance" in my previous post. The fact that the ASSTR admin has been completely silent about what happened, and about whether or how and when it would be fixed, is hardly mysterious. It's exactly what anyone who has been involved with ASSTR these last few years would expect. Indeed, it would be much more suspicious if we suddenly started hearing from a person claiming to be the admin.
~C
sfmaster
Jan 19, 2023, 5:09:21 PM1/19/23
to
Unlike "Law & Order" in the real world these things take time, years in fact. Just watch "American Greed" and you'll see how long it takes to investigate and then prosecute a case.
sfmaster
Chris H
Jan 19, 2023, 5:37:36 PM1/19/23
to
> The lack of any communications from the Admin of ASSTR makes it the idea site to make a sudden and unexplained reappearance.
I agree, and this is definitely a concern. The admin of ASSTR should never have gone "incommunicado," for exactly this reason--such behavior lends itself well to conspiracizing. Those of us looking for a site to publish our stories, need to keep this in mind when we decide whether to publish to ASSTR now or not; the admin's absence is problematic on a whole lot of levels, not the least of which is that none of us really know what's going on, and that adds to confusion and conspriacizing.
I don't think there's anything wrong with speculating about what has happened, but it is important to present all of the facts. And the facts are that there is no particular evidence that leads one to believe that ASSTR has been hijacked by law enforcement, and that the behavior we are currently seeing from the admin at ASSTR is exactly the same behavior we have seen for a half a decade and therefore isn't actually particularly suspicious.
> As far as the time involved, any operation or case takes years to set up.
I don't understand where in this timeline, this law enforcement agency took over control of ASSTR. Before the 2017 hardware failure? Before the failure to pay the DNS registration? Or during this latest downtime?
I really don't know how skilled law enforcement agencies are at taking over websites and turning them into honeypots, but this sure looks like a bunch of bubbling keystone cops are running this site. Why the heck would they not at least get the user account creation script working? That would seem to be a minimum for a honeypot, wouldn't it?
Rather, what this looks a heck of a lot like, is a very old website being run on a shoestring budget by some admin who barely cares about it at all anymore. No conspiracy necessary for that explanation.
Santayana
Jan 20, 2023, 12:23:04 AM1/20/23
to
<lanishhg8cvp3calh...@4ax.com> <5f15dec0-8082-4cb8...@googlegroups.com>
On Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2023 11:18:23 -0800 (PST), Chris H <<chrisha...@gmail.com>
said in Message-ID: <5f15dec0-8082-4cb8...@googlegroups.com>:
> > That is INCORRECT -- It has my updates as of July 9, 2022.
>
> Yep. It also contains my latest postings, immediately prior to the site
> going down in 2022. Plus, it has all user account information, so it is
> most definitely the complete server, not just a copy of the filesystem
> that someone downloaded and is now hosting.
Thanks for that clarification.
> I'm as concerned about recent events involving the prosecution of text-
> based obscenity as others, and it is something that needs to be seriously
> considered.
Indeed. As I've said elsewhere, this should be a wake-up call to everyone in
here, and by all appearances, people are still fast-asleep. Denial is one
/hell/ of a soporific.
> On the other hand, there's plenty of reasons to debunk the idea that ASSTR
> is currently a "honeypot" being run by the DOJ or some other law
> enforcement agency to entrap authors. Let me spell out my argument:
>
> 1. Some here argue that it's suspicious that the site suddenly came online
> without any communication from the admin. But, in fact, anyone who's been
> involved with ASSTR for the last several years knows that this is
> *exactly* what we would expect. The last time that ASSTR went down (due to
> a DNS registration issue), there was also no communication whatsoever from
> the admin. And, after the "grand mal" failure back in 2017, the admin
> posted maybe twice to the yahoo group that was active at the time, and
> provided exactly one "News" update on the site. So going back at least
> five years, there has been basically no communication at all from the
> admin of the site.
>
> Given the above, it would be more suspicious if we suddenly began getting
> all sorts of updates from someone claiming to be the admin!
Actually, the opposite is true. When sites are taken over by law enforcement,
LE are /very/ careful not to behave in any way that would tend to spook the
users of the site.
> 2. After the "grand mal" hardware crash in 2017, almost all features of
> ASSTR have been nonfunctional. Most significantly, you can no longer
> create new user accounts. None of these features have been restored in the
> current version; in fact, the current version is simply and only _the
> exact same version_ that went down in July. I do not understand why law
> enforcement would choose to run the site in its current hobbled state.
> What kind of "honeypot" would that be? Wouldn't they at least want to fix
> the ability to create new user accounts?
One would think so; if any changes are introduced at all, I suspect it will
be done gradually.
> As with the admin's current complete silence, the fact that nothing has
> been fixed, is exactly what we would expect from our experience over the
> last five years. The site has essentially been abandoned, except that
> every once and a while the admin notices that it's down and does the bare
> minimum to bring it back online.
That is my impression as well.
> 3. Similarly to 2., ASSTR is a pale comparison to its earlier self. As of
> July 2022, there were only a handful of writers posting there. I would put
> the number at probably less than 25.
You're making the assumption that this is a numbers game -- it's not.
> I'm not sure how many readers there are (I haven't used a hit count
> mechanism since the 2017 crash brought down ASSTR's native tool). But one
> thing's certain: The readership is no where near the size that it was at
> ASSTR's peak.
>
> It just simply doesn't make any sense that the DOJ would want to run ASSTR
> in its current form as a "honeypot." It's an old, hobbled site, with very
> few contributors and probably a very small readership.
It may not make any sense from /our/ perspective -- /their/ perspective is
what matters. Like I said, I don't think that the DOJ is playing a numbers
game -- if they can arrest, prosecute, and convict even a tiny handful of
people, they will consider it a job well done.
Just look at the resources that were poured into convicting just two people:
Thomas Arthur/Mr. Double and Frank McCoy. Historically, the FBI has thought
nothing of spending upwards of one million dollars in attempting to convict
just one individual -- case in point: Jock Sturges.
> As an aside, in the examples cited for prosecution of smut writers, one
> thing I note is that two -- Fletcher and Mr. Double -- ran commercial
> sites. (I don't know about Frank McCoy).
* Fletcher only ran a 'commercial' site insofar as she charged a modest $10
per month fee (payable via credit card) as a way of ensuring that only
consenting adults were able to access her work.
Fletcher agreed to a plea-bargain, wherein she plead guilty to charges of
distributing obscene material, per 18 USC 1462. She was sentenced to a
term of house arrest, had her computer seized and forfeited to the United
States, paid a fine, and was further subject to a term of probation.
* Arthur ran a fully-commercial site, which was his primary source of income
for more than a decade.
* McCoy never ran a commercial site; he never charged anyone for access to
his stories.
In all 3 cases, the charges were the same: 18 USC 1462 -- which prohibits
the transmission of obscene materials. Now, Arthur also faced charges under
18 USC 1466 - Engaging in the business of selling or transferring obscene
matter.
> It also appears to me that the obscenity law used against Mr. Double is
> based on Congress's authority to regulate interstate commerce.
That is correct, but one must be careful not to put too much emphasis on the
word 'commerce' in interstate commerce. The Interstate Commerce Clause (ICC)
as it has become known, is used as justification for the exercise of Federal
power in just about everything.
> I'm not a lawyer, and it's certainly true that today's legal climate isn't
> likely to be very favorable for writers of smut in general, but I suspect
> that one is much more vulnerable to a "Mr. Double"-style prosecution if
> you are running a commercial site, because the prosecution would be higher
> profile and therefore more impactful, and also possibly because the DOJ
> may be concerned that they wouldn't get a conviction, or even be able to
> bring charges, against an amateur.
With all due respect, mate, you could NOT possibly be more wrong on this
point. Both McCoy and Arthur were convicted of transportation of obscene
matters covered under 18 USC 1462 and, in both cases, the convictions were
upheld on appeal.
As I said, selling obscene matters falls under 18 USC 1466. Neither Fletcher
nor McCoy were charged with an offense under this statute.
A charge under 18 USC 1462 applies regardless of whether the materials are
sold, given away, made available, etc. This statute also criminalizes the
transmission and/or publication of a link showing where such materials may
be found.
Now, according to the affidavits, Frank's activities came to their attention
as early as 2002. They made several attempts to get Frank indicted in his
home state of Minnesota -- apparently at least two judges were approached,
with both refusing to sign off on a warrant, apparently due to First
Amendment concerns over the the text-only nature of the materials.
With this attempt at judge-shopping having failed, the authorities decided
to jurisdiction-shop. They chose one of the most conservative states in the
Union -- Georgia -- as an appropriate venue, with a view to convicting McCoy.
The problem was that McCoy lived in Minnesota -- so, how could they arrange
things so that he could be tried in Georgia? They hit upon the idea of using
an undercover police officer in Georgia -- that officer emailed McCoy. In
their email, that officer asked McCoy where they might be able to locate his
stories. Frank, not being aware of this law, and in his eagerness to help
out a fan, replied to that officer with a link to where his stories could be
found.
Frank's reply to that email request by an undercover officer in Georgia was
apparently sufficient to get a Georgia Grand Jury to indict him on a charge
under 18 USC 1462.
Attempts then began to get a judge to sign-off on an arrest warrant. Frank's
lawyer apparently told him that they tried no less than three (3) judges in
Georgia, before they found one willing to sign-off on the arrest warrant.
(Apparently the first two they approached refused to sign-off on based on
First Amendment grounds.)
So, in January 2008, 15 years ago this month, no less than seven heavily-
armed U.S. Marshals (complete with battering-ram) knocked on McCoy's front
door to take him into custody.
Frank was put on trial in the Middle District of Georgia in January 2010; a
guilty verdict was handed-down in the summer of 2013. Frank appealed, and
the Court of Appeal unanimously upheld both the guilty verdict and sentence.
> ~C
Santayana
On Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2023 11:18:23 -0800 (PST), Chris H <<chrisha...@gmail.com>
said in Message-ID: <5f15dec0-8082-4cb8...@googlegroups.com>:
> > That is INCORRECT -- It has my updates as of July 9, 2022.
>
> Yep. It also contains my latest postings, immediately prior to the site
> going down in 2022. Plus, it has all user account information, so it is
> most definitely the complete server, not just a copy of the filesystem
> that someone downloaded and is now hosting.
> I'm as concerned about recent events involving the prosecution of text-
> based obscenity as others, and it is something that needs to be seriously
> considered.
here, and by all appearances, people are still fast-asleep. Denial is one
/hell/ of a soporific.
> On the other hand, there's plenty of reasons to debunk the idea that ASSTR
> is currently a "honeypot" being run by the DOJ or some other law
> enforcement agency to entrap authors. Let me spell out my argument:
>
> 1. Some here argue that it's suspicious that the site suddenly came online
> without any communication from the admin. But, in fact, anyone who's been
> involved with ASSTR for the last several years knows that this is
> *exactly* what we would expect. The last time that ASSTR went down (due to
> a DNS registration issue), there was also no communication whatsoever from
> the admin. And, after the "grand mal" failure back in 2017, the admin
> posted maybe twice to the yahoo group that was active at the time, and
> provided exactly one "News" update on the site. So going back at least
> five years, there has been basically no communication at all from the
> admin of the site.
>
> Given the above, it would be more suspicious if we suddenly began getting
> all sorts of updates from someone claiming to be the admin!
LE are /very/ careful not to behave in any way that would tend to spook the
users of the site.
> 2. After the "grand mal" hardware crash in 2017, almost all features of
> ASSTR have been nonfunctional. Most significantly, you can no longer
> create new user accounts. None of these features have been restored in the
> current version; in fact, the current version is simply and only _the
> exact same version_ that went down in July. I do not understand why law
> enforcement would choose to run the site in its current hobbled state.
> What kind of "honeypot" would that be? Wouldn't they at least want to fix
> the ability to create new user accounts?
be done gradually.
> As with the admin's current complete silence, the fact that nothing has
> been fixed, is exactly what we would expect from our experience over the
> last five years. The site has essentially been abandoned, except that
> every once and a while the admin notices that it's down and does the bare
> minimum to bring it back online.
> 3. Similarly to 2., ASSTR is a pale comparison to its earlier self. As of
> July 2022, there were only a handful of writers posting there. I would put
> the number at probably less than 25.
> I'm not sure how many readers there are (I haven't used a hit count
> mechanism since the 2017 crash brought down ASSTR's native tool). But one
> thing's certain: The readership is no where near the size that it was at
> ASSTR's peak.
>
> It just simply doesn't make any sense that the DOJ would want to run ASSTR
> in its current form as a "honeypot." It's an old, hobbled site, with very
> few contributors and probably a very small readership.
what matters. Like I said, I don't think that the DOJ is playing a numbers
game -- if they can arrest, prosecute, and convict even a tiny handful of
people, they will consider it a job well done.
Just look at the resources that were poured into convicting just two people:
Thomas Arthur/Mr. Double and Frank McCoy. Historically, the FBI has thought
nothing of spending upwards of one million dollars in attempting to convict
just one individual -- case in point: Jock Sturges.
> As an aside, in the examples cited for prosecution of smut writers, one
> thing I note is that two -- Fletcher and Mr. Double -- ran commercial
> sites. (I don't know about Frank McCoy).
per month fee (payable via credit card) as a way of ensuring that only
consenting adults were able to access her work.
Fletcher agreed to a plea-bargain, wherein she plead guilty to charges of
distributing obscene material, per 18 USC 1462. She was sentenced to a
term of house arrest, had her computer seized and forfeited to the United
States, paid a fine, and was further subject to a term of probation.
* Arthur ran a fully-commercial site, which was his primary source of income
for more than a decade.
* McCoy never ran a commercial site; he never charged anyone for access to
his stories.
In all 3 cases, the charges were the same: 18 USC 1462 -- which prohibits
the transmission of obscene materials. Now, Arthur also faced charges under
18 USC 1466 - Engaging in the business of selling or transferring obscene
matter.
> It also appears to me that the obscenity law used against Mr. Double is
> based on Congress's authority to regulate interstate commerce.
word 'commerce' in interstate commerce. The Interstate Commerce Clause (ICC)
as it has become known, is used as justification for the exercise of Federal
power in just about everything.
> I'm not a lawyer, and it's certainly true that today's legal climate isn't
> likely to be very favorable for writers of smut in general, but I suspect
> that one is much more vulnerable to a "Mr. Double"-style prosecution if
> you are running a commercial site, because the prosecution would be higher
> profile and therefore more impactful, and also possibly because the DOJ
> may be concerned that they wouldn't get a conviction, or even be able to
> bring charges, against an amateur.
point. Both McCoy and Arthur were convicted of transportation of obscene
matters covered under 18 USC 1462 and, in both cases, the convictions were
upheld on appeal.
As I said, selling obscene matters falls under 18 USC 1466. Neither Fletcher
nor McCoy were charged with an offense under this statute.
A charge under 18 USC 1462 applies regardless of whether the materials are
sold, given away, made available, etc. This statute also criminalizes the
transmission and/or publication of a link showing where such materials may
be found.
Now, according to the affidavits, Frank's activities came to their attention
as early as 2002. They made several attempts to get Frank indicted in his
home state of Minnesota -- apparently at least two judges were approached,
with both refusing to sign off on a warrant, apparently due to First
Amendment concerns over the the text-only nature of the materials.
With this attempt at judge-shopping having failed, the authorities decided
to jurisdiction-shop. They chose one of the most conservative states in the
Union -- Georgia -- as an appropriate venue, with a view to convicting McCoy.
The problem was that McCoy lived in Minnesota -- so, how could they arrange
things so that he could be tried in Georgia? They hit upon the idea of using
an undercover police officer in Georgia -- that officer emailed McCoy. In
their email, that officer asked McCoy where they might be able to locate his
stories. Frank, not being aware of this law, and in his eagerness to help
out a fan, replied to that officer with a link to where his stories could be
found.
Frank's reply to that email request by an undercover officer in Georgia was
apparently sufficient to get a Georgia Grand Jury to indict him on a charge
under 18 USC 1462.
Attempts then began to get a judge to sign-off on an arrest warrant. Frank's
lawyer apparently told him that they tried no less than three (3) judges in
Georgia, before they found one willing to sign-off on the arrest warrant.
(Apparently the first two they approached refused to sign-off on based on
First Amendment grounds.)
So, in January 2008, 15 years ago this month, no less than seven heavily-
armed U.S. Marshals (complete with battering-ram) knocked on McCoy's front
door to take him into custody.
Frank was put on trial in the Middle District of Georgia in January 2010; a
guilty verdict was handed-down in the summer of 2013. Frank appealed, and
the Court of Appeal unanimously upheld both the guilty verdict and sentence.
> ~C
Santayana
Santayana
Jan 20, 2023, 2:00:33 AM1/20/23
to
On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 13:58:56 -0800 (PST), Chris H <<chrisha...@gmail.com>
said in Message-ID: <95bdd8da-511e-421d...@googlegroups.com>:
> On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 2:28:49 PM UTC-6, Santayana wrote:
>
Do you have a reference for this, please? If so, it would be very much
appreciated.
> nor do I understand why they would wait three months to bring a hobbled
> website back online, if their goal was to use it as a honey trap. More
> likely, it *was* in fact a coincidence that ASSTR went down three months
> before the decision in the Arthur appeal was made public and came back up
> three months later. In fact, that's really not much of a coincidence at
> all. It seems quite random and unconnected.
Perhaps so. Who says that what either LE and/or the DOJ does has to make any
sense? You know, I've wondered for the last 15 years just what it was that
caused the authorities to go after McCoy with such zeal, even fanaticism?
I suppose, in the end, it really doesn't matter -- if they happen to target
you, and you haven't taken any measures to protect yourself, you're likely
to end up the same way as McCoy.
In any case, I believe it to be a waste of time trying to second-guess the
arcane, occult thought-processes of law-enforcement, much less the DOJ. For
my part, I believe in applying the precautionary principle. As far as I'm
concerned, it's /always/ better to err on the side of caution.
[snip]
> ~C
Santayana
said in Message-ID: <95bdd8da-511e-421d...@googlegroups.com>:
> On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 2:28:49 PM UTC-6, Santayana wrote:
>
> > After all, it's more than a little coincidental that the ASSTR server
> > mysteriously re-appears after the McCoy & Arthur cases are both upheld
> > on appeal.
>
> > mysteriously re-appears after the McCoy & Arthur cases are both upheld
> > on appeal.
>
> The McCoy appellate decision was in 2015, right? So it's hardly the case
> that, seven years later, ASSTR "mysteriously" reappeared after the case
> was upheld on appeal. The Arthur case was upheld on October 12, 2022.
> ASSTR had been down for around three months at that point, and did not
> come back online for another three months. I don't quite understand why a
> law enforcement agency would wait for an appeal in the Arthur case, given
> that the McCoy case was long ago decided (and, if I recall correctly, the
> Supreme Court denied cert, making it more or less established precedent),
I wasn't aware that an application for Cert was even made, much less denied.
> that, seven years later, ASSTR "mysteriously" reappeared after the case
> was upheld on appeal. The Arthur case was upheld on October 12, 2022.
> ASSTR had been down for around three months at that point, and did not
> come back online for another three months. I don't quite understand why a
> law enforcement agency would wait for an appeal in the Arthur case, given
> that the McCoy case was long ago decided (and, if I recall correctly, the
> Supreme Court denied cert, making it more or less established precedent),
Do you have a reference for this, please? If so, it would be very much
appreciated.
> nor do I understand why they would wait three months to bring a hobbled
> website back online, if their goal was to use it as a honey trap. More
> likely, it *was* in fact a coincidence that ASSTR went down three months
> before the decision in the Arthur appeal was made public and came back up
> three months later. In fact, that's really not much of a coincidence at
> all. It seems quite random and unconnected.
sense? You know, I've wondered for the last 15 years just what it was that
caused the authorities to go after McCoy with such zeal, even fanaticism?
I suppose, in the end, it really doesn't matter -- if they happen to target
you, and you haven't taken any measures to protect yourself, you're likely
to end up the same way as McCoy.
In any case, I believe it to be a waste of time trying to second-guess the
arcane, occult thought-processes of law-enforcement, much less the DOJ. For
my part, I believe in applying the precautionary principle. As far as I'm
concerned, it's /always/ better to err on the side of caution.
[snip]
> ~C
Santayana
Kairu Hakubi
Jan 20, 2023, 2:58:43 AM1/20/23
to
It's back up? Praise the lord. Hope people are making better and more thorough backups this time! and I hope Rey is alive and well and just lost his google account or something.
Message has been deleted
Chris H
Jan 20, 2023, 8:42:31 AM1/20/23
to
Santayana, thanks for your replies.
> McCoy never ran a commercial site; he never charged anyone for access to
> his stories.
If I recall from the documents I read, he was using a site called "young ones dot com," or something like this.
Does anyone know what this site was? Did McCoy run this site himself? Did young ones dot com charge a membership feel?
I have no actual idea, but the name of the site leads me to wonder if it might have had something to do with him being targeted by the DOJ. It sounds very much like a site specializing in illegal porn. Perhaps they were hoping he would "flip" and provide information about the owners of this site?
> McCoy never ran a commercial site; he never charged anyone for access to
> his stories.
Does anyone know what this site was? Did McCoy run this site himself? Did young ones dot com charge a membership feel?
I have no actual idea, but the name of the site leads me to wonder if it might have had something to do with him being targeted by the DOJ. It sounds very much like a site specializing in illegal porn. Perhaps they were hoping he would "flip" and provide information about the owners of this site?
Santayana
Jan 20, 2023, 12:57:35 PM1/20/23
to
On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 05:41:19 -0800 (PST), Chris H <chrisha...@gmail.com>
said in Message-ID: <29a7bdb7-03f7-4824...@googlegroups.com>:
> Santayana, thanks for your replies.
You're welcome.
> > McCoy never ran a commercial site; he never charged anyone for access to
> > his stories.
>
> If I recall from the documents I read, he was using a site called
> "youngones.com," or something like this.
Your reply just prompted me to go back and take a look at the original
indictment handed down by the Grand Jury, a copy of the original judgement
details, and finally the decision handed-down by the Court of Appeal.
The original charging document dated June 13, 2007 mentioned 3 sites:
Mr. Double's, ASSTR, and another site young-stuff.com that I had not heard
of before.
> Does anyone know what this site was? Did McCoy run this site himself? Did
> youngones.com charge a membership feel?
The original June 2007 Grand Jury indictment makes absolutely no mention of
site-ownership, nor does it make any reference whatsoever to fees charged.
http://www.archive.org/download/gov.uscourts.gamd.71112/gov.uscourts.gamd.71112.1.0.pdf
The original 2013 decision following McCoy's 2010 bench trial, implies that
he owned the site, but does not come out and explicitly state it.
The 2015 appeal states that the site was operated by McCoy out of his house;
it makes further mention of 276-odd stories written or edited by McCoy, but
again, there is no mention of any payments charged.
Furthermore, if payments /were/ an issue, one has to wonder why it was that
there were no charges laid under 18 USC 1466, which criminalizes the sale or
transfer of obscene matters; this is one of the charges that was used in the
Mr. Double case:
18 U.S. Code § 1466 - Engaging in the business of selling or transferring
obscene matter
(a) Whoever is engaged in the business of producing with intent to
distribute or sell, or selling or transferring obscene matter, who
knowingly receives or possesses with intent to distribute any obscene
book, magazine, picture, paper, film, videotape, or phonograph or
other audio recording, which has been shipped or transported in
interstate or foreign commerce, shall be punished by imprisonment for
not more than 5 years or by a fine under this title, or both.
(b) As used in this section, the term “engaged in the business” means that
the person who produces [1] sells or transfers or offers to sell or
transfer obscene matter devotes time, attention, or labor to such
activities, as a regular course of trade or business, with the
objective of earning a profit, although it is not necessary that the
person make a profit or that the production, selling or transferring
or offering to sell or transfer such material be the person’s sole or
principal business or source of income. The offering for sale of or to
transfer, at one time, two or more copies of any obscene publication,
or two or more of any obscene article, or a combined total of five or
more such publications and articles, shall create a rebuttable
presumption that the person so offering them is "engaged in the
business" as defined in this subsection.
> I have no actual idea, but the name of the site leads me to wonder if it
> might have had something to do with him being targeted by the DOJ. It
> sounds very much like a site specializing in illegal porn. Perhaps they
> were hoping he would "flip" and provide information about the owners of
> this site?
Assuming the statements in the Court of Appeal decision are accurate, then
Frank ran the site himself, so there would have been nothing for him to turn
over.
Santayana
said in Message-ID: <29a7bdb7-03f7-4824...@googlegroups.com>:
> Santayana, thanks for your replies.
> > McCoy never ran a commercial site; he never charged anyone for access to
> > his stories.
>
> If I recall from the documents I read, he was using a site called
Your reply just prompted me to go back and take a look at the original
indictment handed down by the Grand Jury, a copy of the original judgement
details, and finally the decision handed-down by the Court of Appeal.
The original charging document dated June 13, 2007 mentioned 3 sites:
Mr. Double's, ASSTR, and another site young-stuff.com that I had not heard
of before.
> Does anyone know what this site was? Did McCoy run this site himself? Did
The original June 2007 Grand Jury indictment makes absolutely no mention of
site-ownership, nor does it make any reference whatsoever to fees charged.
http://www.archive.org/download/gov.uscourts.gamd.71112/gov.uscourts.gamd.71112.1.0.pdf
The original 2013 decision following McCoy's 2010 bench trial, implies that
he owned the site, but does not come out and explicitly state it.
The 2015 appeal states that the site was operated by McCoy out of his house;
it makes further mention of 276-odd stories written or edited by McCoy, but
again, there is no mention of any payments charged.
Furthermore, if payments /were/ an issue, one has to wonder why it was that
there were no charges laid under 18 USC 1466, which criminalizes the sale or
transfer of obscene matters; this is one of the charges that was used in the
Mr. Double case:
18 U.S. Code § 1466 - Engaging in the business of selling or transferring
obscene matter
(a) Whoever is engaged in the business of producing with intent to
distribute or sell, or selling or transferring obscene matter, who
knowingly receives or possesses with intent to distribute any obscene
book, magazine, picture, paper, film, videotape, or phonograph or
other audio recording, which has been shipped or transported in
interstate or foreign commerce, shall be punished by imprisonment for
not more than 5 years or by a fine under this title, or both.
(b) As used in this section, the term “engaged in the business” means that
the person who produces [1] sells or transfers or offers to sell or
transfer obscene matter devotes time, attention, or labor to such
activities, as a regular course of trade or business, with the
objective of earning a profit, although it is not necessary that the
person make a profit or that the production, selling or transferring
or offering to sell or transfer such material be the person’s sole or
principal business or source of income. The offering for sale of or to
transfer, at one time, two or more copies of any obscene publication,
or two or more of any obscene article, or a combined total of five or
more such publications and articles, shall create a rebuttable
presumption that the person so offering them is "engaged in the
business" as defined in this subsection.
> I have no actual idea, but the name of the site leads me to wonder if it
> might have had something to do with him being targeted by the DOJ. It
> sounds very much like a site specializing in illegal porn. Perhaps they
> were hoping he would "flip" and provide information about the owners of
> this site?
Frank ran the site himself, so there would have been nothing for him to turn
over.
Santayana
Chris H
Jan 20, 2023, 1:10:15 PM1/20/23
to
It seems odd to me that a writer would run a site called "young-stuff dot com." Obviously the name of the site isn't particularly relevant to your concerns addressed here, so I'm just ruminating out loud at this point, but as a person out surfing the web, if I saw a site with that domain name, I would assume it was going to be pornography, and likely either illegal porn or at least of questionable legality. I would not expect it to be a story site and would be rather surprised to discover that it was.
Because of this, I've always wondered if there was more to the story of McCoy's original charge than one finds in the court documents.
Because of this, I've always wondered if there was more to the story of McCoy's original charge than one finds in the court documents.
Y Lee Coyote
Jan 20, 2023, 2:02:34 PM1/20/23
to
On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 10:10:12 -0800 (PST), Chris H
<chrisha...@gmail.com> wrote in
<3be1541d-4f45-4d0c...@googlegroups.com>:
>It seems odd to me that a writer would run a site called "young-stuff dot com."
<snip>
The site young-stuff (dot) com is in the Wayback Machine. I looked at a
couple of captures and they show the cover of a magazine with the same
title. The cover picture is of a young girl giving a blow job. One page
indicated that there are stories and pictures. It was a pay site.
Y
<chrisha...@gmail.com> wrote in
<3be1541d-4f45-4d0c...@googlegroups.com>:
>It seems odd to me that a writer would run a site called "young-stuff dot com."
The site young-stuff (dot) com is in the Wayback Machine. I looked at a
couple of captures and they show the cover of a magazine with the same
title. The cover picture is of a young girl giving a blow job. One page
indicated that there are stories and pictures. It was a pay site.
Y
Nomen Nescio
Jan 21, 2023, 1:42:38 AM1/21/23
to
On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 14:02:27 -0500 Y Lee Coyote <See.signa...@mail.com> said;
The address of frank's private page is: www.young-stuff (dot) com/frank
For those who do not wish to venture there (for obvious reasons) here is the page content (minus working links):
This is the private page of Frank McCoy, containing his stories and helpful information.
This page was last updated on 02/21/02
You are visitor # BORDER=0 SRC="http://c1.thecounter.com/id=228574&size=1920&colors=24&referer=&java=false"> to this site since 04/09/00
Who IS this Frank McCoy guy anyway?
Where are these stories?
Are there other places to get stories like these?
Who IS this Frank McCoy guy anyway?
Frank McCoy is a man who started writing sex stories for his own enjoyment, and later started publishing them on the internet (in alt.sex.stories) when he found out that other people were interested in reading them.
His stories mostly involve incest, (family members having sex) pedophilia, (young children having sex) pregnancy (yes, having babies) and quite often several other quirks as well.
These stories (with a few notable exceptions) are usually completely consensual (That means that all parties involved want to do whatever they are doing.) and are basically love-stories. Even though most people might consider this "abuse," nobody (with the above noted exceptions) gets abused in his stories. If a little girl has sex, (gets fucked) it's because she wants to get fucked, and asks for it.
This may be unrealistic, but these are stories, FANTASIES, they are not intended as examples of the real world, or suggestions of things to do.
Frank started out by publishing a complete novel, ("Her Father's Daughter") ostensibly written by a friend ("Tammy") who didn't want to be identified further. He has also published several stories that he claims are his own, besides those of the mysterious Tammy.
Once he started publishing, several other people have asked him to publish some of their stories, in the same manner.
All of stories published under the "An Erotic Story" sub-title, share the following characteristics:
They are all not copyrighted.
There is no author's name. Frank might have written them, and he might not.
They have all been edited by Frank, to meet his literary standards (such as they are).
Besides these stories, Frank has been known to publish some stories, (NOT under the "An Erotic Story" by-line,) for people who do not want to be otherwise identified. These are NOT subject to the above limitations.
For more information on the stories, follow this [link] for explanations of why the big gap between postings, and why pregnancy and little girls are such a big part of many of the stories.
Where are these stories?
These stories are available as .ZIP files, [here]
There is a .ZIP file available [here], if you want the entire archive.
Be warned: This file is over 2 megs long.
Why .ZIP files?
Are there other places to get stories like these?
This place has two mirrors:
hosted by young-stuff.com
hosted by Rey del Sexo
Frank's original page was opened so people could get his stories when the louvre closed, because the person running it left the college where it was hosted. (We all grow up ... Well, some of us do.)
Now there's:
The alt.sex.stories.repository (replacing the alt.sex.stories.moderated archive originally run by Eli the Bearded; now part of asstr).
Dejanews which has almost every post Frank ever made (and probably millions of others).
Incestgrrl who tries to keep up-to-date on Frank's stories on Frank's page there.
Last (but most certainly not least) there's Mr. Double, who USED to carry most of Frank's stories on his site (but doesn't now, because he got miffed at something Frank wrote in one of the newsgroups) which has one of the biggest collection of stories of this type available (almost as big as Frank's own private archive).
Lately, Mr. Double has changed the format so that some parts of his site are members only . . . Don't let that stop you however. Most of the site is free. When you sign on to his page, you'll see the members-only parts labeled in red. The BLUE links are free. Simply follow the blue links around his site, and especially to the Resident Authors' area, and you'll find stories galore. The Palisades area contains stories you hve to pay for ... but well worth the small price.
For those who ask nicely Frank will send up to three stories, if specifically asked for by name or otherwise specifically identified, by searching his archive. Frank is not a public archive like the backdrop club, and is only doing this when he is the archive of last-resort.
Finally, we want to express our gratitude to those people hosting this site. Frank's original server wanted more money than most people spend in a year on the internet, per-month! just to continue carrying the site, because it was getting too much traffic. For just a service to Frank's readers, it was too much.
For those interested, Frank DOES have his own personal website; but it is deliberately not linked (forward or backward or on the same site) with this one. Write if interested (Specify you want his PERSONAL website, not his story site).
Frank can be reached at: mcc...@millcomm.com (Frank McCoy)
[1]
Stories Information
Information why it takes so long between posts & other things.
Back to main page
Back to story page
Some people ask me why it's so long a time between posts, and then when I DO post, it's a whole series of stories at once?
Well first, I don't write down all the stories I think up. As stated previously, my stories usually start from an idea I have when I wake up with a hard-on in the morning. Usually; not always. Sometimes I can be driving down the road in the afternoon, and an idea for a story will hit me out of the blue. MOST of these ideas remain just that . . . ideas. Usually I'm too busy to write them down, so they get lost, unless I remember them later for some other reason. A few ideas are so sexy or persistent, or just plain GOOD, that I dream them up for several days, and add-to or modify them. Still, most of them get lost.
I've lost more ideas for more and sometimes far better stories than I ever wrote. I usually come up with about one new story-idea a day, and write down only one or two of those. (Some days have two or three ideas, while others have none, or are repeats.) Occasionally an ides is SO compelling, that am almost FORCED to write it down, to get it out of my head. Usually though, it's "the luck of the draw" on whether I remember a story the next time I sit down to write or not. About one story-idea a week ever makes it to my fingers to be written down even AS a story-idea; and only about half of THOSE ideas ever make it to completion. The ones that do, are usually the short ones . . . the only ones I have TIME to complete. Thus I average about one story every two weeks, or thereabouts.
So why is it so long (months) between posts?
Well first, (as mentioned before) I don't publish unfinished stories. It bugs
ME to read: "(To be continued:)" on a story I like, and then never see any more of it; especially if it's just getting to the "interesting" part.
I HATE cliffhangers! So I try not to do that myself.
That means the story is not only complete, but "finished" as well. No trailing strings left undone. Good grammar (where appropriate) spell-checked, and the story checked out for logical errors (Little "Suzy" can't be 7 years old in this part of the story, then two years older than her 4-year-old brother two pages later.)
It also has to READ well, and have any and all additions made BEFORE I post it, not afterwards. (If a scene is sexy, and I can make it even sexier, then do it BEFORE posting it. No changes allowed later.) Then, the story is checked for readability. Awkward sentences are changed. Repetitive uses of pronouns or nouns are substituted (using a thesaurus, if possible.)
Example:
"He stuck his thick prick so far up in her tight cunt that it almost came out of her mouth. Her tight little cunt squeezed his thick prick so hard he almost felt like she was going to cut it off" becomes:
"Jack stuck his engorged prick so far up in his sister's tight little cunny that it almost came out of the little girl's mouth. Diane's incredibly tiny slit squeezed on her brother's swollen member so hard the boy almost felt as if the kid was going to cut the damned thing off."
With a little polishing, even that can be improved.
Checks are made for consistency. (Does the girl call her father "Dad" in this part of the story, "Father" in that, and "Daddy" in a third part?) Descriptions are added to stories intended to be longer than one or two pages:
"Suzy was 12 years old"
Becomes:
"At twelve, Suzy was the kind of little brunette that made grownups' hearts ache; just to look at her. Long brown hair cascaded almost to her waist, in thick streamers that you just ached to run your fingers through. While the little girl hadn't yet developed the full-sized breasts and sensuous hips of her two big sister, the bumps on her developing bosom, and the slight swell to her body just above her thighs showed signs that the child would not be really a child much longer. A flashing smile, and big brown eyes you could almost drown in, ensured that the little girl could almost certainly get whatever she wanted from any male member of the human race, just by looking as if her smile might vanish if she didn't get it. Her beauty and personality had almost as much effect on the other half of the human race, as well." That way, you can almost visualize the child standing in front of you; and you get some idea of the personality she brings to the story.
Once the story is COMPLETE, the editing has only half begun. Even after every part of the story is in place, it must be read, and re-read until all the little glitches are removed. and those annoying little things like "your skate" misspelled as "You're skate" (or more commonly "its true" and "it's possessions" being wrongly used, as shown). This usually takes a MINIMUM of three to four readings and re-writes. Of course, these readings usually can take place in parallel with writing new stuff, as taking along a story-chunk to read does NOT require a whole computer (Not if you've got a good printer, that is.) So, a good story takes about four weeks to write, with about two weeks (on the average) between producing each story. This SHOULD lead to me posting a new story about every two weeks, right?
Wrong.
I mentioned all the trouble going through the stories.
Sometimes I am able to have people read them for me, and point out some of the mistakes I make (Kibitzing the story) thus saving me from having to do so many re-reads myself. For each kibitzer who comments on a story (and does a decent job of pointing out errors, not just saying "GREAT story!") I usually can re-read the story one less time myself, before it's in decent shape. Only right now, all of my good kibitzers have dropped out. (Not that I BLAME them; it takes TIME to do a good job of kibitzing.) So I have to do all the reading, verifying, and editing myself; and allow time between each re-read to forget the story for a week or so, so I can catch more errors next time. All this takes time.
The problem is: It takes time away from WRITING new stories, and the ideas are vanishing each time I don't write them down. So, I write several stories in a row, while they're fresh in my mind, and comb back and edit each one later, when they are NOT so fresh.
There's one other reason for the drought/flood syndrome:
It's EASIER to post a whole batch of stories, and update my web-page all in one big whack, than to do it on a regular basis. In other words, I'm lazy, and this is only done in my spare time for pleasure. I don't get one thin dime from anybody for this; in fact it COSTS me over $120 a year to maintain my web-site with enough space to contain the stories for those people who want to access them. So, I do it at MY rate, at what's convenient for me. That means, in batches. Sorry folks, but that's the way it is.
This note is NOT intended to be a complaint, or bragging.
It's just intended to explain to people WHY there is such a big gap between stories. Many people have told me that they like my stories because they're "quality" (whatever that is) unlike so much junk that gets put out in the newsgroups. Well, sad to say, THAT is the reason for the big gap. It takes TIME to produce quality; and I don't want to produce anything else.
(To those people who thing that ALL of my stories are garbage, not fit to be buried in a cess-pit, I say, "Be thankful I take this time, and don't write more!")
As to why I bother posting at all, if it's that much trouble, it's:
A. Because I LIKE to.
B. Because I like to get mail commenting on my stories.
(Yes, even flames and cops are welcome.)
C. Because I enjoyed the stories, so I want others to.
D. To make a point.
Every story I write, is written to make SOME point.
(Yeah, just like those stories with "morals" hidden in them, like
your parents tried to get you to read as a kid, every one of my
stories is trying to jog people's thinking.) The most important
thing most of my stories have to say is: "Love is what makes people happy."
Not sex, not money, not who you are or where you live, or how.
That I use incest/pedophile/pregnant stories to push this message
is only because that is the type of fantasy that *I* have: Being a
young girl who can get all the loving she wants; whether sex or not.
Having babies, is also one of the things I dream about.
Too rarely in this world are people allowed to have all the loving they need.
=============================================================
Why pregnancy, pedo, and incest?
An Erotic Story?
Many people have asked me, "Why incest?" or "Why are the
girls all so young in your stories?" or most often, "What's the
deal with getting them pregnant?" This essay, is to explain why.
I've told this all before; but never wrote down the answers in
one place. I decided it would be easier to answer if I did it in
one place, in a document I have control over.
To start off, I'm probably the second or third horniest
person who ever lived. I like a LOT of sex. When I was a child,
I didn't get any ... and I missed NOT having sex tremendously.
This lack-of-sex, when I was under the (probably mistaken)
apprehension that everybody else (particularly girls) was getting
all they wanted (or at least SOME, compared to my none) had a
large effect on my sexuality and my daydreams (on which my
stories are based).
Probably the BIGGEST misaprehension I had as a boy, was that
GIRLS could get all the sex they wanted ... just by saying,
"Yes," to any boy that asked ... and boy (in my mind) would
always be asking. Thoughts of pregnancy or disease never entered
my head as risks back then.
Wint this in mind, since then my sexual dreams all seem to
be based on the idea of beeing young again, and being able to get
ALL the sex I so missed NOT having, when I was a boy. All the
rest is based on this ... AND the fact that force or coercion of
any kind does NOT turn me on (usually). The mere thought that
somebody I love is hurting (for ANY reason, be it a cramp or
hangnail) is enough to make me lose any erection or thought of
enjoying sex I might have. (I would make a particularly LOUSY
rapist!) This preoccupation with sex needing to be basically
(not necessarily completely) consensual, has a LARGE effect on my
stories.
So ... with the above, you have the need for a YOUNG person
getting LOTS of sex, and enjoying it completely, with no worries
to fill my fantasy of being able to live over my life, and get
all the sex I wanted back then.
Thus:
In the first place, the main character is usually a girl (or
girls). Even in those where the main character SEEMS to be a man
(grandfather/father/big-brother), if you examine the story, the
main action is with the girl or girls. Often (as some people
have pointed out) the male character is almost a cardboard-cutout
with a prick; while the real character developement is all with
the girls. The reason for this, is again my (probably mistaken,
but having some accuracy) idea that GIRLS can get all the sex
they want ... unlike boys. For sure, if a girl is willing, it's
a LOT easier for her to seduce somebody, than it is for a boy of
the same age.
In the second place, I wanted LOTS of sex ... starting from
the time it first "felt good" to touch myself between the
legs ... not much after babyhood, if that. The fantasy stretches
do dream of being allowed to have as much sex as possible, from
the earliest possible age.
Third, (as mentioned before) I want it to be consensual ...
NOT rape, and preferably with any coercion being only
psychological ... and THAT at a minimum, if possible. I can't
keep a hard-on, if it's rape or anything like rape. So ... I put
that aspect of me into the people in my stories.
The foruth item (incest) is mainly because of the above.
While I HAVE written a few stories where the main characters
weren't related, they are few. Why? Because if a girl is going
to find a sexual partner at a young age, WHO is she going to find
handy? And WHO would she trust not to hurt her, or "use" her, or
betray her trust? Also, WHO is available for sex ALL the time?
Who else, but a member of the immediate family. While SOME
stories manage to get around this, the difficulties of an
underaged girl getting to someone OTHER than a family-member on a
regular basis for sex, without getting caught or worse, is VERY
hard to get around. Thus incest with Daddy (who usually gets
trapped into it) with Big Brother (who's usually as horny as the
girl; and doesn't NEED to be trapped into it) or Grandpa (who is
about the only male person OUTSIDE the normal houshold who would
be seeing a young girl on a VERY regular basis (needed for that
LOTS of sex thingy). Sometimes (but rarely) an uncle might
substitute for Grandpa.
Besides, incestuous sex is kinky; and thus a turn-on in it's
own right! (So many "naughty" things are sexually arousing.)
Next (to keep with the idea of it being FUN, and not scary)
we have to get Mom into the act. Mothers WILL find out ...
especially if their precocious nubile young daughters are having
almost continuous sex with male members of the household.
SOOO ... Instead of Mom getting MAD at her daughters for having
unprotected sex, I often (usually) have her as the instigator!
All sorts of reasons are dreamed up (but not always covered in
the story) for the woman to want her kids to have complete sexual
freedom and/or all the sex most people only dream about.
======================================
The way *I* feel has nothing to do with abuse ... I just
missed being loved, cuddled, and yes having sex when I was young
(which I guess might be abuse of a kind; but it was never
deliberate).
That being deprived of having friends, and especially
girlfriends at the time when I saw almost every other boy and
girl pairing off, was REALLY hard ... and ever since I've had
dreams of being that age, and being able to get not only what I
missed that (it seemed to me) everybody else got, but far
more ... in fact the wet-dream quality of being able to get all
the sex I wanted.
Which partly explains why most of my stories involve young
girls ... I labor under the probably mistaken apprehension that
little girls can get all the sex they want, just by indicating to
any or all available men that she WANTS to have sex. And so, I
dream about being such a lucky little girl.
Force, or rape, or hurting in any manner turn me completely
OFF. What I want is the sex and love I missed, NOT me or the
other person hurting or being humiliated or even pressured into
something I (or she) wasn't ready for. The dream is to have (or
BE) a little girl who WANTS sex; and doesn't have any
compunctions about letting those she loves know it.
The below is just the tail-end of a conversation that took
place over the net with a another author (female) when discussing
one of my stories, and one of hers. I thought it might be
appropriate to the newsgroups. It also somewhat explains my
story-writing style, and somewhat answers those who accuse me of
being a danger to young girls. As I have explained before, my
fantasy is not to fuck some young girl. It's to BE said young
girl, getting fucked. Yes: and even knocked up.
=============================================================
>Sure... send it my way. Like I said... I remember pregnancy...
>I wished HE would have found me attractive then... of course,
>I looked and felt like a beached whale...
>
Gee. . . Sounds like my wife felt.
I was looking at her, so radiantly pregnant, and so
gorgeous, and she was complaining that she looked FAT!
To me, a glowingly pregnant woman is the most beautiful
thing in the world. It gave me a constant hard-on, and she
couldn't understand it. The other thing that it did, is make me
envious. God! how I wished that I could take her place for a
while. (So did she, and she told me so. . . repeatedly.)
I always have fantasies about being a girl, and getting and
being pregnant. If I was a girl, I probably would have been
knocked-up at age-11, and continuously pregnant since then,
during the times I wasn't nursing. I guess, it's really a good
thing I WASN'T born a girl. Anyway, that's why so many
of my stories involve little girls fucking their fathers. Where
else would they even have a chance, that someone who really loved
them, was the one who got them pregnant? (This always assumes
that the little girl seduces the man, not vice-versa, as usually
happens in real-life. Oh well, that's why it's a story.)
If you have any additions, corrections, or other comments on this page, then
email Frank at: mcc...@millcomm.com (Frank McCoy)
For those who do not wish to venture there (for obvious reasons) here is the page content (minus working links):
This is the private page of Frank McCoy, containing his stories and helpful information.
This page was last updated on 02/21/02
You are visitor # BORDER=0 SRC="http://c1.thecounter.com/id=228574&size=1920&colors=24&referer=&java=false"> to this site since 04/09/00
Who IS this Frank McCoy guy anyway?
Where are these stories?
Are there other places to get stories like these?
Who IS this Frank McCoy guy anyway?
Frank McCoy is a man who started writing sex stories for his own enjoyment, and later started publishing them on the internet (in alt.sex.stories) when he found out that other people were interested in reading them.
His stories mostly involve incest, (family members having sex) pedophilia, (young children having sex) pregnancy (yes, having babies) and quite often several other quirks as well.
These stories (with a few notable exceptions) are usually completely consensual (That means that all parties involved want to do whatever they are doing.) and are basically love-stories. Even though most people might consider this "abuse," nobody (with the above noted exceptions) gets abused in his stories. If a little girl has sex, (gets fucked) it's because she wants to get fucked, and asks for it.
This may be unrealistic, but these are stories, FANTASIES, they are not intended as examples of the real world, or suggestions of things to do.
Frank started out by publishing a complete novel, ("Her Father's Daughter") ostensibly written by a friend ("Tammy") who didn't want to be identified further. He has also published several stories that he claims are his own, besides those of the mysterious Tammy.
Once he started publishing, several other people have asked him to publish some of their stories, in the same manner.
All of stories published under the "An Erotic Story" sub-title, share the following characteristics:
They are all not copyrighted.
There is no author's name. Frank might have written them, and he might not.
They have all been edited by Frank, to meet his literary standards (such as they are).
Besides these stories, Frank has been known to publish some stories, (NOT under the "An Erotic Story" by-line,) for people who do not want to be otherwise identified. These are NOT subject to the above limitations.
For more information on the stories, follow this [link] for explanations of why the big gap between postings, and why pregnancy and little girls are such a big part of many of the stories.
Where are these stories?
These stories are available as .ZIP files, [here]
There is a .ZIP file available [here], if you want the entire archive.
Be warned: This file is over 2 megs long.
Why .ZIP files?
Are there other places to get stories like these?
This place has two mirrors:
hosted by young-stuff.com
hosted by Rey del Sexo
Frank's original page was opened so people could get his stories when the louvre closed, because the person running it left the college where it was hosted. (We all grow up ... Well, some of us do.)
Now there's:
The alt.sex.stories.repository (replacing the alt.sex.stories.moderated archive originally run by Eli the Bearded; now part of asstr).
Dejanews which has almost every post Frank ever made (and probably millions of others).
Incestgrrl who tries to keep up-to-date on Frank's stories on Frank's page there.
Last (but most certainly not least) there's Mr. Double, who USED to carry most of Frank's stories on his site (but doesn't now, because he got miffed at something Frank wrote in one of the newsgroups) which has one of the biggest collection of stories of this type available (almost as big as Frank's own private archive).
Lately, Mr. Double has changed the format so that some parts of his site are members only . . . Don't let that stop you however. Most of the site is free. When you sign on to his page, you'll see the members-only parts labeled in red. The BLUE links are free. Simply follow the blue links around his site, and especially to the Resident Authors' area, and you'll find stories galore. The Palisades area contains stories you hve to pay for ... but well worth the small price.
For those who ask nicely Frank will send up to three stories, if specifically asked for by name or otherwise specifically identified, by searching his archive. Frank is not a public archive like the backdrop club, and is only doing this when he is the archive of last-resort.
Finally, we want to express our gratitude to those people hosting this site. Frank's original server wanted more money than most people spend in a year on the internet, per-month! just to continue carrying the site, because it was getting too much traffic. For just a service to Frank's readers, it was too much.
For those interested, Frank DOES have his own personal website; but it is deliberately not linked (forward or backward or on the same site) with this one. Write if interested (Specify you want his PERSONAL website, not his story site).
Frank can be reached at: mcc...@millcomm.com (Frank McCoy)
[1]
Stories Information
Information why it takes so long between posts & other things.
Back to main page
Back to story page
Some people ask me why it's so long a time between posts, and then when I DO post, it's a whole series of stories at once?
Well first, I don't write down all the stories I think up. As stated previously, my stories usually start from an idea I have when I wake up with a hard-on in the morning. Usually; not always. Sometimes I can be driving down the road in the afternoon, and an idea for a story will hit me out of the blue. MOST of these ideas remain just that . . . ideas. Usually I'm too busy to write them down, so they get lost, unless I remember them later for some other reason. A few ideas are so sexy or persistent, or just plain GOOD, that I dream them up for several days, and add-to or modify them. Still, most of them get lost.
I've lost more ideas for more and sometimes far better stories than I ever wrote. I usually come up with about one new story-idea a day, and write down only one or two of those. (Some days have two or three ideas, while others have none, or are repeats.) Occasionally an ides is SO compelling, that am almost FORCED to write it down, to get it out of my head. Usually though, it's "the luck of the draw" on whether I remember a story the next time I sit down to write or not. About one story-idea a week ever makes it to my fingers to be written down even AS a story-idea; and only about half of THOSE ideas ever make it to completion. The ones that do, are usually the short ones . . . the only ones I have TIME to complete. Thus I average about one story every two weeks, or thereabouts.
So why is it so long (months) between posts?
Well first, (as mentioned before) I don't publish unfinished stories. It bugs
ME to read: "(To be continued:)" on a story I like, and then never see any more of it; especially if it's just getting to the "interesting" part.
I HATE cliffhangers! So I try not to do that myself.
That means the story is not only complete, but "finished" as well. No trailing strings left undone. Good grammar (where appropriate) spell-checked, and the story checked out for logical errors (Little "Suzy" can't be 7 years old in this part of the story, then two years older than her 4-year-old brother two pages later.)
It also has to READ well, and have any and all additions made BEFORE I post it, not afterwards. (If a scene is sexy, and I can make it even sexier, then do it BEFORE posting it. No changes allowed later.) Then, the story is checked for readability. Awkward sentences are changed. Repetitive uses of pronouns or nouns are substituted (using a thesaurus, if possible.)
Example:
"He stuck his thick prick so far up in her tight cunt that it almost came out of her mouth. Her tight little cunt squeezed his thick prick so hard he almost felt like she was going to cut it off" becomes:
"Jack stuck his engorged prick so far up in his sister's tight little cunny that it almost came out of the little girl's mouth. Diane's incredibly tiny slit squeezed on her brother's swollen member so hard the boy almost felt as if the kid was going to cut the damned thing off."
With a little polishing, even that can be improved.
Checks are made for consistency. (Does the girl call her father "Dad" in this part of the story, "Father" in that, and "Daddy" in a third part?) Descriptions are added to stories intended to be longer than one or two pages:
"Suzy was 12 years old"
Becomes:
"At twelve, Suzy was the kind of little brunette that made grownups' hearts ache; just to look at her. Long brown hair cascaded almost to her waist, in thick streamers that you just ached to run your fingers through. While the little girl hadn't yet developed the full-sized breasts and sensuous hips of her two big sister, the bumps on her developing bosom, and the slight swell to her body just above her thighs showed signs that the child would not be really a child much longer. A flashing smile, and big brown eyes you could almost drown in, ensured that the little girl could almost certainly get whatever she wanted from any male member of the human race, just by looking as if her smile might vanish if she didn't get it. Her beauty and personality had almost as much effect on the other half of the human race, as well." That way, you can almost visualize the child standing in front of you; and you get some idea of the personality she brings to the story.
Once the story is COMPLETE, the editing has only half begun. Even after every part of the story is in place, it must be read, and re-read until all the little glitches are removed. and those annoying little things like "your skate" misspelled as "You're skate" (or more commonly "its true" and "it's possessions" being wrongly used, as shown). This usually takes a MINIMUM of three to four readings and re-writes. Of course, these readings usually can take place in parallel with writing new stuff, as taking along a story-chunk to read does NOT require a whole computer (Not if you've got a good printer, that is.) So, a good story takes about four weeks to write, with about two weeks (on the average) between producing each story. This SHOULD lead to me posting a new story about every two weeks, right?
Wrong.
I mentioned all the trouble going through the stories.
Sometimes I am able to have people read them for me, and point out some of the mistakes I make (Kibitzing the story) thus saving me from having to do so many re-reads myself. For each kibitzer who comments on a story (and does a decent job of pointing out errors, not just saying "GREAT story!") I usually can re-read the story one less time myself, before it's in decent shape. Only right now, all of my good kibitzers have dropped out. (Not that I BLAME them; it takes TIME to do a good job of kibitzing.) So I have to do all the reading, verifying, and editing myself; and allow time between each re-read to forget the story for a week or so, so I can catch more errors next time. All this takes time.
The problem is: It takes time away from WRITING new stories, and the ideas are vanishing each time I don't write them down. So, I write several stories in a row, while they're fresh in my mind, and comb back and edit each one later, when they are NOT so fresh.
There's one other reason for the drought/flood syndrome:
It's EASIER to post a whole batch of stories, and update my web-page all in one big whack, than to do it on a regular basis. In other words, I'm lazy, and this is only done in my spare time for pleasure. I don't get one thin dime from anybody for this; in fact it COSTS me over $120 a year to maintain my web-site with enough space to contain the stories for those people who want to access them. So, I do it at MY rate, at what's convenient for me. That means, in batches. Sorry folks, but that's the way it is.
This note is NOT intended to be a complaint, or bragging.
It's just intended to explain to people WHY there is such a big gap between stories. Many people have told me that they like my stories because they're "quality" (whatever that is) unlike so much junk that gets put out in the newsgroups. Well, sad to say, THAT is the reason for the big gap. It takes TIME to produce quality; and I don't want to produce anything else.
(To those people who thing that ALL of my stories are garbage, not fit to be buried in a cess-pit, I say, "Be thankful I take this time, and don't write more!")
As to why I bother posting at all, if it's that much trouble, it's:
A. Because I LIKE to.
B. Because I like to get mail commenting on my stories.
(Yes, even flames and cops are welcome.)
C. Because I enjoyed the stories, so I want others to.
D. To make a point.
Every story I write, is written to make SOME point.
(Yeah, just like those stories with "morals" hidden in them, like
your parents tried to get you to read as a kid, every one of my
stories is trying to jog people's thinking.) The most important
thing most of my stories have to say is: "Love is what makes people happy."
Not sex, not money, not who you are or where you live, or how.
That I use incest/pedophile/pregnant stories to push this message
is only because that is the type of fantasy that *I* have: Being a
young girl who can get all the loving she wants; whether sex or not.
Having babies, is also one of the things I dream about.
Too rarely in this world are people allowed to have all the loving they need.
=============================================================
Why pregnancy, pedo, and incest?
An Erotic Story?
Many people have asked me, "Why incest?" or "Why are the
girls all so young in your stories?" or most often, "What's the
deal with getting them pregnant?" This essay, is to explain why.
I've told this all before; but never wrote down the answers in
one place. I decided it would be easier to answer if I did it in
one place, in a document I have control over.
To start off, I'm probably the second or third horniest
person who ever lived. I like a LOT of sex. When I was a child,
I didn't get any ... and I missed NOT having sex tremendously.
This lack-of-sex, when I was under the (probably mistaken)
apprehension that everybody else (particularly girls) was getting
all they wanted (or at least SOME, compared to my none) had a
large effect on my sexuality and my daydreams (on which my
stories are based).
Probably the BIGGEST misaprehension I had as a boy, was that
GIRLS could get all the sex they wanted ... just by saying,
"Yes," to any boy that asked ... and boy (in my mind) would
always be asking. Thoughts of pregnancy or disease never entered
my head as risks back then.
Wint this in mind, since then my sexual dreams all seem to
be based on the idea of beeing young again, and being able to get
ALL the sex I so missed NOT having, when I was a boy. All the
rest is based on this ... AND the fact that force or coercion of
any kind does NOT turn me on (usually). The mere thought that
somebody I love is hurting (for ANY reason, be it a cramp or
hangnail) is enough to make me lose any erection or thought of
enjoying sex I might have. (I would make a particularly LOUSY
rapist!) This preoccupation with sex needing to be basically
(not necessarily completely) consensual, has a LARGE effect on my
stories.
So ... with the above, you have the need for a YOUNG person
getting LOTS of sex, and enjoying it completely, with no worries
to fill my fantasy of being able to live over my life, and get
all the sex I wanted back then.
Thus:
In the first place, the main character is usually a girl (or
girls). Even in those where the main character SEEMS to be a man
(grandfather/father/big-brother), if you examine the story, the
main action is with the girl or girls. Often (as some people
have pointed out) the male character is almost a cardboard-cutout
with a prick; while the real character developement is all with
the girls. The reason for this, is again my (probably mistaken,
but having some accuracy) idea that GIRLS can get all the sex
they want ... unlike boys. For sure, if a girl is willing, it's
a LOT easier for her to seduce somebody, than it is for a boy of
the same age.
In the second place, I wanted LOTS of sex ... starting from
the time it first "felt good" to touch myself between the
legs ... not much after babyhood, if that. The fantasy stretches
do dream of being allowed to have as much sex as possible, from
the earliest possible age.
Third, (as mentioned before) I want it to be consensual ...
NOT rape, and preferably with any coercion being only
psychological ... and THAT at a minimum, if possible. I can't
keep a hard-on, if it's rape or anything like rape. So ... I put
that aspect of me into the people in my stories.
The foruth item (incest) is mainly because of the above.
While I HAVE written a few stories where the main characters
weren't related, they are few. Why? Because if a girl is going
to find a sexual partner at a young age, WHO is she going to find
handy? And WHO would she trust not to hurt her, or "use" her, or
betray her trust? Also, WHO is available for sex ALL the time?
Who else, but a member of the immediate family. While SOME
stories manage to get around this, the difficulties of an
underaged girl getting to someone OTHER than a family-member on a
regular basis for sex, without getting caught or worse, is VERY
hard to get around. Thus incest with Daddy (who usually gets
trapped into it) with Big Brother (who's usually as horny as the
girl; and doesn't NEED to be trapped into it) or Grandpa (who is
about the only male person OUTSIDE the normal houshold who would
be seeing a young girl on a VERY regular basis (needed for that
LOTS of sex thingy). Sometimes (but rarely) an uncle might
substitute for Grandpa.
Besides, incestuous sex is kinky; and thus a turn-on in it's
own right! (So many "naughty" things are sexually arousing.)
Next (to keep with the idea of it being FUN, and not scary)
we have to get Mom into the act. Mothers WILL find out ...
especially if their precocious nubile young daughters are having
almost continuous sex with male members of the household.
SOOO ... Instead of Mom getting MAD at her daughters for having
unprotected sex, I often (usually) have her as the instigator!
All sorts of reasons are dreamed up (but not always covered in
the story) for the woman to want her kids to have complete sexual
freedom and/or all the sex most people only dream about.
======================================
The way *I* feel has nothing to do with abuse ... I just
missed being loved, cuddled, and yes having sex when I was young
(which I guess might be abuse of a kind; but it was never
deliberate).
That being deprived of having friends, and especially
girlfriends at the time when I saw almost every other boy and
girl pairing off, was REALLY hard ... and ever since I've had
dreams of being that age, and being able to get not only what I
missed that (it seemed to me) everybody else got, but far
more ... in fact the wet-dream quality of being able to get all
the sex I wanted.
Which partly explains why most of my stories involve young
girls ... I labor under the probably mistaken apprehension that
little girls can get all the sex they want, just by indicating to
any or all available men that she WANTS to have sex. And so, I
dream about being such a lucky little girl.
Force, or rape, or hurting in any manner turn me completely
OFF. What I want is the sex and love I missed, NOT me or the
other person hurting or being humiliated or even pressured into
something I (or she) wasn't ready for. The dream is to have (or
BE) a little girl who WANTS sex; and doesn't have any
compunctions about letting those she loves know it.
The below is just the tail-end of a conversation that took
place over the net with a another author (female) when discussing
one of my stories, and one of hers. I thought it might be
appropriate to the newsgroups. It also somewhat explains my
story-writing style, and somewhat answers those who accuse me of
being a danger to young girls. As I have explained before, my
fantasy is not to fuck some young girl. It's to BE said young
girl, getting fucked. Yes: and even knocked up.
=============================================================
>Sure... send it my way. Like I said... I remember pregnancy...
>I wished HE would have found me attractive then... of course,
>I looked and felt like a beached whale...
>
Gee. . . Sounds like my wife felt.
I was looking at her, so radiantly pregnant, and so
gorgeous, and she was complaining that she looked FAT!
To me, a glowingly pregnant woman is the most beautiful
thing in the world. It gave me a constant hard-on, and she
couldn't understand it. The other thing that it did, is make me
envious. God! how I wished that I could take her place for a
while. (So did she, and she told me so. . . repeatedly.)
I always have fantasies about being a girl, and getting and
being pregnant. If I was a girl, I probably would have been
knocked-up at age-11, and continuously pregnant since then,
during the times I wasn't nursing. I guess, it's really a good
thing I WASN'T born a girl. Anyway, that's why so many
of my stories involve little girls fucking their fathers. Where
else would they even have a chance, that someone who really loved
them, was the one who got them pregnant? (This always assumes
that the little girl seduces the man, not vice-versa, as usually
happens in real-life. Oh well, that's why it's a story.)
If you have any additions, corrections, or other comments on this page, then
email Frank at: mcc...@millcomm.com (Frank McCoy)
Santayana
Jan 21, 2023, 11:18:00 PM1/21/23
to
On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 14:02:27 -0500, Y Lee Coyote <See.signa...@mail.com>
said in Message-ID: <c6plshl0uor18b1cc...@4ax.com>:
Going back to basics, and looking at the Court of Appeal judgment again,
it appears that I misquoted/misremembered what the decision actually said.
McCoy maintained a website at young-stuff.com from his home in
Minnesota. On this website, McCoy posted more than 200 stories
that he authored or edited and that described in graphic and
explicit detail the sexual abuse, rape, and torture of young
children. McCoy's website provided a link for visitors to
access the stories. McCoy's young-stuff.com website came to
the attention of federal law enforcement officers in 2004,
when agents were conducting a separate investigation and
found 18 stories downloaded from the website on a suspect's
computer in Georgia. On March 22, 2005, Special Agent Cory
Brant visited the young-stuff.com website and downloaded
more than 200 accessible stories. Over the course of
Brant's investigation, McCoy provided Brant with links
to three websites that contained McCoy's stories.
Frank did maintain his private website at young-stuff (dot) com/frank, so
the description quoted above from the Court of Appeal judgment is correct.
Frank's own description further clarifies the matter that he only hosted his
materials on young-stuff (dot) com:
"Finally, we want to express our gratitude to those people
hosting this site. Frank's original server wanted more money
than most people spend in a year on the internet, per-month!
just to continue carrying the site, because it was getting
too much traffic. For just a service to Frank's readers, it
was too much."
Santayana
said in Message-ID: <c6plshl0uor18b1cc...@4ax.com>:
it appears that I misquoted/misremembered what the decision actually said.
McCoy maintained a website at young-stuff.com from his home in
Minnesota. On this website, McCoy posted more than 200 stories
that he authored or edited and that described in graphic and
explicit detail the sexual abuse, rape, and torture of young
children. McCoy's website provided a link for visitors to
access the stories. McCoy's young-stuff.com website came to
the attention of federal law enforcement officers in 2004,
when agents were conducting a separate investigation and
found 18 stories downloaded from the website on a suspect's
computer in Georgia. On March 22, 2005, Special Agent Cory
Brant visited the young-stuff.com website and downloaded
more than 200 accessible stories. Over the course of
Brant's investigation, McCoy provided Brant with links
to three websites that contained McCoy's stories.
Frank did maintain his private website at young-stuff (dot) com/frank, so
the description quoted above from the Court of Appeal judgment is correct.
Frank's own description further clarifies the matter that he only hosted his
materials on young-stuff (dot) com:
"Finally, we want to express our gratitude to those people
hosting this site. Frank's original server wanted more money
than most people spend in a year on the internet, per-month!
just to continue carrying the site, because it was getting
too much traffic. For just a service to Frank's readers, it
was too much."
Santayana
Jan 22, 2023, 12:12:48 AM1/22/23
to
On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 05:42:27 -0800 (PST),Chris H <chrisha...@gmail.com> said
in Message-ID: <a2ede78d-bdbb-4ee3...@googlegroups.com>:
> Santayana, thanks for your replies.
You're welcome.
> > McCoy never ran a commercial site; he never charged anyone for access to
> > his stories.
>
> If I recall from the documents I read, he was using a site called "young
> ones dot com," or something like this.
>
> Does anyone know what this site was? Did McCoy run this site himself? Did
> young ones dot com charge a membership feel?
The site name was young-stuff (dot) com, and based on the graphic that was
shown, that Y Lee Coyote referred to, it /may/ have been a pay-site. That
said, Frank appears to have hosted his stories on young-stuff(dot) com/frank,
and /that/ site was freely available.
> I have no actual idea, but the name of the site leads me to wonder if it
> might have had something to do with him being targeted by the DOJ. It
> sounds very much like a site specializing in illegal porn. Perhaps they
> were hoping he would "flip" and provide information about the owners of
> this site?
First off, I doubt Frank would have known who the owners of the site were.
Second, it appears that what have brought Frank and his private site to LE's
attention in the first place is outlined in this quote from the Court of
Appeal judgment:
McCoy maintained a website at young-stuff.com from his home
in Minnesota. On this website, McCoy posted more than 200
stories that he authored or edited and that described in
graphic and explicit detail the sexual abuse, rape, and
torture of young children. McCoy's website provided a link
for visitors to access the stories. McCoy's young-stuff.com
website came to the attention of federal law enforcement
officers in 2004, when agents were conducting a separate
investigation and found 18 stories downloaded from the
website on a suspect's computer in Georgia.
On March 22, 2005, Special Agent Cory Brant visited the
young-stuff.com website and downloaded more than 200
accessible stories. Over the course of Brant's
investigation, McCoy provided Brant with links to three
websites that contained McCoy's stories.
I've long-maintained that what did Frank in was his replying to that under-
cover agent's (Brant) email, but now I'm not so certain as I was previously.
I've also long-wondered just what it was that got the state of Georgia
involved, now I know. They may have had probable cause to indict, just based
on finding Frank's stories on this suspect's computer, but having Frank
reply with those links was the icing on the cake. That /alone/ was cause
enough to indict.
Santayana
in Message-ID: <a2ede78d-bdbb-4ee3...@googlegroups.com>:
> Santayana, thanks for your replies.
> > McCoy never ran a commercial site; he never charged anyone for access to
> > his stories.
>
> If I recall from the documents I read, he was using a site called "young
> ones dot com," or something like this.
>
> Does anyone know what this site was? Did McCoy run this site himself? Did
> young ones dot com charge a membership feel?
shown, that Y Lee Coyote referred to, it /may/ have been a pay-site. That
said, Frank appears to have hosted his stories on young-stuff(dot) com/frank,
and /that/ site was freely available.
> I have no actual idea, but the name of the site leads me to wonder if it
> might have had something to do with him being targeted by the DOJ. It
> sounds very much like a site specializing in illegal porn. Perhaps they
> were hoping he would "flip" and provide information about the owners of
> this site?
Second, it appears that what have brought Frank and his private site to LE's
attention in the first place is outlined in this quote from the Court of
Appeal judgment:
McCoy maintained a website at young-stuff.com from his home
in Minnesota. On this website, McCoy posted more than 200
stories that he authored or edited and that described in
graphic and explicit detail the sexual abuse, rape, and
torture of young children. McCoy's website provided a link
for visitors to access the stories. McCoy's young-stuff.com
website came to the attention of federal law enforcement
officers in 2004, when agents were conducting a separate
investigation and found 18 stories downloaded from the
website on a suspect's computer in Georgia.
On March 22, 2005, Special Agent Cory Brant visited the
young-stuff.com website and downloaded more than 200
accessible stories. Over the course of Brant's
investigation, McCoy provided Brant with links to three
websites that contained McCoy's stories.
cover agent's (Brant) email, but now I'm not so certain as I was previously.
I've also long-wondered just what it was that got the state of Georgia
involved, now I know. They may have had probable cause to indict, just based
on finding Frank's stories on this suspect's computer, but having Frank
reply with those links was the icing on the cake. That /alone/ was cause
enough to indict.
Santayana
sfmaster
Jan 22, 2023, 3:47:04 PM1/22/23
to
sfmaster
Y Lee Coyote
Jan 22, 2023, 4:26:25 PM1/22/23
to
On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 12:47:00 -0800 (PST), sfmaster <adult...@gmail.com>
wrote in <4920171e-b70c-4db1...@googlegroups.com>:
<snip>
>Has anyone thought to ping story.submit.asstr? Stories are being posted, and it's not through FTP, so there has to be someone behind the curtain.
>sfmaster
Nothing strange nor sinister for SFTP at sftp.asstr.org works just like
before last July.
wrote in <4920171e-b70c-4db1...@googlegroups.com>:
<snip>
>Has anyone thought to ping story.submit.asstr? Stories are being posted, and it's not through FTP, so there has to be someone behind the curtain.
>sfmaster
before last July.
sfmaster
Jan 22, 2023, 5:29:05 PM1/22/23
to
sfmaster
Velvet Wood
Jan 24, 2023, 8:46:53 PM1/24/23
to
On Saturday, January 21, 2023 at 11:12:48 PM UTC-6, Santayana wrote:
> Second, it appears that what have brought Frank and his private site to LE's
> attention in the first place is outlined in this quote from the Court of
> Appeal judgment:
> McCoy maintained a website at young-stuff.com from his home
> in Minnesota. On this website, McCoy posted more than 200
> stories that he authored or edited and that described in
> graphic and explicit detail the sexual abuse, rape, and
> torture of young children.
Does anyone know what 'torture of young children' refers to? This seems grossly uncharacteristic of the Frank McCoy I knew.
> Second, it appears that what have brought Frank and his private site to LE's
> attention in the first place is outlined in this quote from the Court of
> Appeal judgment:
> McCoy maintained a website at young-stuff.com from his home
> in Minnesota. On this website, McCoy posted more than 200
> stories that he authored or edited and that described in
> graphic and explicit detail the sexual abuse, rape, and
> torture of young children.
Tim Merrigan
Jan 24, 2023, 9:28:56 PM1/24/23
to
--
Qualified immunity = virtual impunity.
Tim Merrigan
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com
Santayana
Jan 25, 2023, 5:10:53 AM1/25/23
to
On Tue, 24 Jan 2023 17:46:50 -0800 (PST), Velvet Wood <vel...@gmail.com>
said in Message-ID: <ce53e49f-c7cc-47dd...@googlegroups.com>:
been confused by all these references to 'torture', etc. I had always made
the presumption that these references may have referred to materials written
by other authors, and merely edited by Frank. I now know for certain that
this is not the case.
Tim Merrigan is correct -- using the information Tim so kindly provided, I
was able to find the following post made by Frank himself here in A.S.S.D.,
on the 23rd of April, 2004.
You will note from the following that Frank admitted to being the author of
this story. Please also take note of the keywords: mf,rape,incest,pedo, and,
perhaps most importantly in this context: snuff.
I have reproduced Frank's post /exactly/ as found, including all headers:
Path: not-for-mail
From: Frank McCoy <mcc...@millcomm.com>
Newsgroups: alt.stories.incest,alt.sex.stories.d
Subject: Re: PING====> Author Re: RAPE SUZY (mf,rape,incest,pedo,snuff, VERY BAD)
Followup-To: alt.sex.stories.d
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 22:15:08 -0500
Organization: S.F.P.I.A
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <onmj80t1s0pn3dpc2...@4ax.com>
References: <4088c2ed$1...@galaxy.uncensored-news.com> <Xns94D4B87C5BF43a...@207.217.125.202>
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American)
Path: not-for-mail
From: Frank McCoy <mcc...@millcomm.com>
Newsgroups: alt.stories.incest,alt.sex.stories.d
Subject: Re: PING====> Author Re: RAPE SUZY (mf,rape,incest,pedo,snuff, VERY BAD)
Followup-To: alt.sex.stories.d
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 22:15:08 -0500
Organization: S.F.P.I.A
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <onmj80t1s0pn3dpc2...@4ax.com>
References: <4088c2ed$1...@galaxy.uncensored-news.com> <Xns94D4B87C5BF43a...@207.217.125.202>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American)
In alt.stories.incest melissa dole <amnic...@nospamnetscape.net>
wrote:
>"One Sick Puppy" <INDE...@Mars.com> wrote in news:4088c2ed$1_1
>@galaxy.uncensored-news.com:
>
>> RAPE SUZY (mf,rape,incest,pedo,snuff, VERY BAD)
>>
>> NOTICE! This is very RAW stuff. Do not read, if you have a weak
>> stomach. Frankly, I advise you to skip to some other
>> story, and I'm the author. If I didn't like it, do I
>> have to say more?
>>
>>
>
>I haven't read the second part yet. I will this weekend. I know this is an
>older story and well it's not the best kind to discuss, but I see so many
>different angles. If the author erased his name, perhaps he doesn't want to
>be associated with the story any longer. Maybe, I should keep my comments
>to myself then.
>
>If not will you please tell me, it's okay.
>
>Melissa
Um ... My name is on it.
It's by far my un-favorite story of all I've ever posted.
But I've never denied authorship.
It also happens to be the second-most-commented-on story I ever
posted. Surprisingly, far more positive comments than negative.
So yes, comments are welcome.
--
Followups redirected to alt.sex.stories.d
_____
/ ' / ™
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(_/ / (_(_/|_/ / <_/ <_
atfmog
Jan 31, 2023, 3:59:15 PM1/31/23
to
On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 1:15:55 AM UTC+10, Ethan Edwards wrote:
> Some time within the past two weeks or so ASSTR came back up.
Something a little interesting, this is from WHO IS, while there is little info this is the registration details.
> Some time within the past two weeks or so ASSTR came back up.
Name: REDACTED FOR PRIVACY
Organization Identity Protection Service
Address: REDACTED FOR PRIVACY
City: REDACTED FOR PRIVACY
State / Province Middlesex
Postal Code: REDACTED FOR PRIVACY
Country GB
Phone: REDACTED FOR PRIVACY
Fax: REDACTED FOR PRIVACY
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