BDSM, Sex, and Arousal
Bond....
> In a basic sense: I do not need BDSM to have fullfilling sex. I do not
> need sex to have fullfilling BDSM. In fact, I enjoy, and sometimes
> prefer, my bdsm and sex to be separate.
> I say: BDSM can be sexual, but is not sexual (to me) in ITSELF. To me,
> bdsm is SENSUAL. And the sensual can crossover to the sexual, vice
> versa, but does not need to.
Exactly my feelings. I sometimes crave both, but as I get older, I am
finding that the sexual side takes a back seat to sensuality and sub-space.
> arousal. It is an arousal that does not make me crave a complete seuxal
> release -- it is it's own end, if that makes sense.
Agreed. I sometimes feel ripped off, cheapened, if I do attain release
in or shortly after a scene.
> When I am in a non-bdsm foreplay session, touching, kissing, etc., I get
> aroused --I get wet, I get turned on. If my partner were to stop and
> leave, I would be frustrated -- of course. I would want to finish, to
> get that release.
Yes, I have this vanilla reaction too.
> So I can walk away from a bdsm scene, completely aroused, my heart
> pounding, with no sign of sexual release in sight, but I am still
> completely *content*, for the domination rush of it, the sensual
> satisfaction of it.
Yeah, and I feel really wicked, in a very comfortable nice kind of way.
It is amazing to me how closely your feelings parallel mine, since we
experience the opposite ends of the whip. It makes me marvel at how
good BDSM could be, especially between completely willing parties. If
limits and interests were the same, it would give new meaning to the
terms 'closeness' and 'fullfilment'.
Cheers,
Bond....
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MK aka Casey Hamilton
> I've given this a lot of thought. I've found that when I top I don't
> necessarily want to have an orgasm when I'm in top space -- in fact, I
> don't much like to (plus it's difficult for me to relinquish control
> enough to come while I'm in heavy top space).
I, OTOH, am about the opposite. When Equus and I play, I get off every
time. Now, I will grant you that it was a little tough learning how to
snap back to dommish headspace immediately after orgasm, but now I find
it quite easy to do.
> Asexual play seems to be commoner in female-top male-bottom interactions
> than any other sector of S/M. Male tops, in my experience, almost always
> want to get off during scene. Dykes seem likelier to play sexually than
> het women, but less likely than men of any persuasion.
My mileage, obviously varies, as our play is almost always sexual in one
way or another.
+======================================================================+
MK aka Casey Hamilton (No wannas, please; Equus is QUITE enough
1/24/95 for me to deal with!)
wi....@wizvax.com
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 95 00:39:45 PDT
Subject: Re: BDSM, Sex, and Arousal
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> When I am aroused from a bdsm scene -- my focus is not on the sexual
> release, it is on the arousal itself. I enjoy it for that, I do not find
> myself so concerned with actual sexual release. In fact, I can pretty
> much take it or leave it, I would much rather concentrate on the BDSM I
> am enjoying, not reaching orgasm. Again, they do overlap, but they do
> not need to.
>
> So I can walk away from a bdsm scene, completely aroused, my heart
> pounding, with no sign of sexual release in sight, but I am still
> completely *content*, for the domination rush of it, the sensual
> satisfaction of it.
You mean we're not the only ones...
When my wife and i first began experimenting with bdsm play, it was just
another form of foreplay. The more we've grown into it as a lifestyle over
the years, the more it seems we enjoy a bdsm scene without having *sex*.
It has it's own unique release, orgasmic in it's own way...
> Again..somehow, to me, BDSM relates much more to sensuality and passion
> than to sexuality. they all can mesh together and they do, but BDSM in
> itself, to me, is an act of passion and sensuality.
It could not be said better.
** from the bottom things always look up... **
ferg
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>
>
>I think you bring out a big misunderstanding in the S/M world: that
>submissive=passive. I think many submissives think it is their "job" to permit
>the dominant to do things to him, including, of course, getting him off. Many
>believe that if the dominant woman wants satisfaction, she will make pleasing
>her a fun part (for him) of the scene.
Hmm...I can't speak for all dominant women, but when I want some sort of
pleasure in a scene, be it sexual or sensual or just something to make me
giggle, I find no hesitation in asking, ordering, or prodding him toward
what I want, depending on the level of assertiveness I feel like
delivering.
>
>In my experience, sex isn't always the easiest thing for a woman do "demand".
I have no problem demanding it :)
>It is something apart from the S/M situation. Just as we men like to feel we
>are pleasing our partners by our arousal and orgasm, it is reasonable a woman
>wants to feel her orgasm is part of a mutually enjoyable activity. Many women
>have a problem with admitting the need and so do without rather than risking a
>feeling of discomfort by getting a less-than-positive response from the man.
>
While I think this might be true for women in general, I don't think this
is true for dom women. Again, I can't speak for all, but one definite
thing I know about the more "general" side of my dom nature, I have no
problem asking for what I want sexually, or demanding it, if that is the
tone of the scene. This is true in my vanilla encounters as well, I will
often tell my partner what feels good and what doesn't, or if I want to
cum first or second or seven more times. It's part of my nature to be
assertive sexually, even if I am not "domming".
>As a responsible partner, I feel it is incumbant on me to make sure my partner
>is pleased. She doesn't have to demand I lick her while in bondage. If she
>does, of course that is fine, but if she doesn't, I will happily lick her or
>mount her or do whatever else she especially likes after the scene. Since I
>frequently get off during a session (usually by hand), I use my mouth to
>please my partner afterward. But I don't do it as a submissive. I do it as a
>loving man who *wants* his paterner happy. In fact, I can be fairly dominant
>at times like that by postponing her orgasm by stopping my licking at the
>appropriate moment. Regardless of specific technique (which of course, depends
>on what pleases a partcular partner), I make a point of making love to *her*
>rather than make her extract her pleasure from our scene. I want her to feel
>she is the most exciting and wonderful lover in the world. The fact she is a
>dynamite mistress and makes my ass hurt for days is just gravy.
>
I think your attitude about pleasing your partner is commendable. In my
case however, I like to think my sub is not worried about whether or not
I am sexually pleased -- now this may not sound quite right -- but bare
with me. I feel that my sub should know I am completely content, after
all, I am the dom, I am taking what I want, I am doing as I please --
sometimes at his expense. He need not worry that I may be craving the
feel of his tongue between my legs -- if I were, he would be on his knees
at the snap of my fingers and licking me until he could not go on any
more, and then some.
I would rather my sub not be concerning himself with what he could be
doing better or wondering what I am wanting -- he should be concentrating
on doing what I say and doing it to the best of his ability. My
satisfaction is coming from my domination of him, and taking what I want,
whether it be seeing him suffer, seeing him struggle, or holding his head
between my legs until he whimpers for release.
My main point in this response, surrounded by all this fluff, is just
that I feel that Lion is corrent in the assumption that many women do not
assert themselves to get what they want sexually and thus the male should
work at this -- but I do not believe this is the case with most Dom
women, but I may be wrong, I would love to hear from any doms out there
that feel uncomfortable with the thought of ordering their sub to please
her when and how she feels.
Janet W. Hardy
: women do what they like in scene *if* (big if here) it is appropriate to
: the scene. For many scenes it is not. Consider all of the professional
: Dominants who would be in danger of arrest if they requested direct sexual
: contact. A serious prolonged flogging sometimes doesn't fit into the
: genital sex rubrik, either during or after. The person that you just had
: a very hot scene with is someone you don't know well enough to feel
: sexually comfortable with.
<Nod.> One of the reasons I rarely play with strangers any more.
A public play party has rules against sexual
: contact. (When was the last time you saw an orgasm at a public play
: party?)
Most play parties here in NoCal permit sexual interaction. Many require
the use of latex barriers. I have seen many orgasms at public play
parties (and experienced one or two myself).
The person that I'm playing with is the dedicated partner of a
: someone else. There are many other examples that I'm sure you could bring
: to mind. All of these are times when I certainly would feel very
: uncomfortable with ordering the submissive to please me sexually.
: But I digress...
: If you read Pat Califa's essay, you'll see that part of what she is saying
: is that many bottoms - not just the bad ones - will give the Dom sexual
: service as part of their own sexual fantasy, not as part of pleasing the
: Dom. I hope Ms. Califa will forgive a quote: "The 'sexual service' that
: most bottoms are prepared to offer tops is scripted as a continuation of
: the scene. It is about the bottom going under more deeply - it is not
: centered on the top's pleasure, but on the bottom's pleasure in being
: used."
I've actually had better luck with female bottoms than male ones on
this. Since I greatly prefer being penetrated during sexplay, many male
bottoms -- whose erections went south a while before -- have a hard time
giving me what I want. Whereas female bottoms seem more willing to pull
themselves back together, grab a dildo and have at it...
Lady Green
Ms. Margo
: Most play parties here in NoCal permit sexual interaction. Many require
: the use of latex barriers. I have seen many orgasms at public play
: parties (and experienced one or two myself).
I'm very curious about this. Are these true public play parties where
anyone who shows up and/or pays the price of admission can attend, or are
they semi-private parties limited to the membership of a group or
invitaton list?
Very truly yours,
Ms. Margo
In the repressed and snowy East...
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Tip: alt.sex.telephone exists for phone sex discussion/advertisements.
Please don't send wanna's, as I'm very happy with the men that I have.
Janet W. Hardy
: : parties (and experienced one or two myself).
: I'm very curious about this. Are these true public play parties where
: anyone who shows up and/or pays the price of admission can attend, or are
: they semi-private parties limited to the membership of a group or
: invitaton list?
Most of them maintain at least some control over the guest list: one
must be, for example, a member of the organization, a guest of a member,
known to one of the party organizers, or some such. I don't know of any
parties here that are truly open to the public, except for pseudo-party
club scenes like Bondage A Go Go (which I don't consider to be a play
party at all).
Lady Green
Ms. Margo
: Most of them maintain at least some control over the guest list: one
: must be, for example, a member of the organization, a guest of a member,
: known to one of the party organizers, or some such. I don't know of any
: parties here that are truly open to the public, except for pseudo-party
: club scenes like Bondage A Go Go (which I don't consider to be a play
: party at all).
Thanks for the clarification! When I said "public" play party I was
thinking of the sort of anyone-who-shows-up-can-come-in-the-door style of
play parties that occur at the large sci-fi conventions, rather than sort
of "public" party where any member of a certain group can come. (Nice
topic pun, eh?)
Very truly yours,
Ms. Margo
Katharine Hawks
>I've actually had better luck with female bottoms than male ones on
>this. Since I greatly prefer being penetrated during sexplay, many male
>bottoms -- whose erections went south a while before -- have a hard time
>giving me what I want. Whereas female bottoms seem more willing to pull
>themselves back together, grab a dildo and have at it...
>Lady Green
That's no suprise... and I think it speaks to alot more than erections.
Speaking for myseef, I've found Het intercourse to be =really= disruptive
to scene dynamics. Not so with oral sex, using toys, or whatever. One of
the things I like about Het BDSM is the gender-role fuck. Of course,
it's a small part of a large and substantial dynamic... but that great
feeling of making a =man= beg is so wonderful.
I was an out bisexual long before I felt comfortable enough to explore my
BDSM kinks. And I have to say, I've found it very hard play with other
women as a Dominant.
Regards,
Katie