The Look
Ms. Margo
middle-aged figure and a rather plain face. She has nearly twenty years
of experience and an interest in scholarship in the scene. The second is
very young with a busty figure and a lovely face. She has very little
experience and not much interest in learning the technical aspects of
domination. When I ask male submissives which Dominant they would prefer
they *say* that they would prefer the woman with experience, but in
practice they always chase the pretty woman. She has The Look.
How important is The Look? Magazines and videos are full of leggy models
in black leather who have The Look. We all know what the stereotypical
Dominant woman looks like. Upon meeting a new person we have little to go
on but the initial attraction of face and figure, but (hopefully)
domination is rarely that casual. Contrast this with the years of fantasy
that most male submissives have before they ever actually meet a Dominant
female. In those fantasies the Dom is always young, always beautiful -
just like the women in the magazines. Do these long years of fantasy lead
to disappointment when male submissives meet real female Dominants and
find that most look like normal women? Our society puts such a heavy
premium on youth and beauty that this attitude spills over into every
section, including the D&S community.
Do we do ourselves a disservice by selling an image which most of us do
not fit? Is it inevitable that male submissives will be more attracted to
looks than to skill? As a submissive gains experience does the desire for
a Dom with The Look diminish, or does it simply make way in their minds
for the reality of Dominant women?
Very truly yours,
Ms. Margo
--
ma...@netcom.com
Please don't send wanna's, as I'm having a hell of a time with the men
that I have.
Janet W. Hardy
: not fit? Is it inevitable that male submissives will be more attracted to
: looks than to skill? As a submissive gains experience does the desire for
: a Dom with The Look diminish, or does it simply make way in their minds
: for the reality of Dominant women?
I think it depends a bit on the nature of the submissive's personal
fantasy. A sub who is into body worship, fetishism -- activities in
which there is relatively little physical risk and the "look and feel"
are important -- is likelier to pick the "stand and model" FoxyDom (TM).
A masochist who wants to be taken to physical extremes will, if he has
any brains at all, pick the one with a few years on her and a sense of
responsibility and technical skill.
Unfortunately, some of the best pro-dommes I know have 20 years or more
of experience and tremendous levels of technical skill and personal
ethics -- and are scrabbling for work because there are so many clueless
fellows out there who pick a pro because her photo in "Spectator" looks hot.
I tell people in my classes to go ahead and hire the FoxyDom -- then tell
her to stand across the room and model the hot fetishwear while they get
done by a lady who knows what she's doing.
Lady Green
Linda J. Smith
But....
Why are you making it sound as though any young, attractive
dominants don't know what they are doing?
I'm starting to feel kind of defensive, here. If I ever meet
any of you, are you going to look at my legs and my youth
and assume that I am inexperienced, unintelligent, and
uncreative?
Linda
Mistress Ayishah
Janet W. Hardy
Of course not. If you understand your craft, and respect its enormous
transformative power, you are worthy of respect.
Our posts have to do with the many FoxyDoms (TM) who are essentially
fetishwear models who have learned a few routines -- who don't understand
the safety issues, psychology, physiology or spirituality of S/M. Nobody
is saying you, or anyone in this newsgroup, is one of these; in fact, if
you're spending your spare time reading and posting here, you're probably
not. But there are a *bunch* of them out there.
Verdant
rla...@name1.ak.net
>I can tell you that as a 50 year old, domination by an average in appearance
>teacher in a high collar and sensible shoes is a much more provocative imagary
>than an 18 year old version of Heather Locklear in a leather catsuit wielding
>a bullwhip.
Agreed, absolutely, no argument, but
>Mature educated sub men looking for femdom are not reading this newsgroup.
You have no idea of what you speak.
Farnorth
<a mature educated sub man looking for femdom who is reading this newsgroup>
Janet W. Hardy
: You have no idea of what you speak.
: Farnorth
: <a mature educated sub man looking for femdom who is reading this newsgroup>
I third that motion. I've met a few of the fellows who read this
newsgroup in real life, and they are mature, educated and submissive.
Lady Green
==========================================================================
"Ecstasy: A state of | Greenery Press: publishers of "The Sexually
being beyond reason and | Dominant Woman" and "The Bottoming Book"
self-control" | For catalog, e-mail ver...@crl.com or SASE
-- Webster's | to 3739 Balboa #195, San Francisco, CA 94121
==========================================================================
Eightmeg
: overweight, huh? I think you should change your .sig to say *some*
: dominant Goddesses.
: Not a flame, just trying to point out something you probably didn't notice.
Yes that is correct but I don't want to take up too much bandwidth by
laying out all those specifications. Notice, though, that I didn't say
old. At my club there is a couple who come in. They are quite
elderly. She the sub, usually endures some reddening of the ass cheeks
by a very small hand held paddle. She looks to be about 80. My
observation to my wife was that S&M is something that is not just for
20 and 30 year olds but is enjoyed by people of _all_ ages and that I
hoped to be able to enjoy SMBD to a very ripe old age. :)
*******************************************************************
Eigh...@cyberverse.com *** worshipper of all straight dominant
Goddesses except for those who have short and/or pyroxide hair
* * * or are ugly or overweight * * *
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Eightmeg
: > Eigh...@cyberverse.com *** worshipper of all straight dominant
: > * * * or are ugly or overweight * * *
: Yeah, I think this is better. This way it is clear that I am not in your
: realm of worship for two strikes against me; you would probably find me
: ugly as well. *shrug*
Well, I have since learned that it is how someone makes you feel that is
important, over looks. :)
Lawless
: I definitely prefer my partners to be attractive. But the definition of
: what attractive is is rather fuzzy. I have found that if I like and
: respect someone with rather average looks but above average
: brains/personality/etc., that person becomes MUCH more physically
: attractive to me. Conversely, if I meet someone who is by my general
: preferences : utterly stunning and that person is a boor or an egomanic
: or not intelligent, the beauty points drop.
<sniff> Noire, you jumped in and said just what was running through my
head on the subject - guess I should've been a little quicker <g>. Seems
to me like most people, straight or scene, prefer to be with a partner who
is, in some way, attractive to them. The attractiveness may be physical,
it may be personality or even, for some, conventional unattractiveness may
be appealing. IMHO, as people get older and wiser, their standards widen -
they cease to be looking for only one aspect in a potential partner.
For myself, I know that if someone is drop-dead gorgeous, it definately
catches my eye. But so does a pretty smile that transforms an otherwise
plain face, or nice eyes, etc... And so long as that smallest initial spark
was there, they become more and more attractive as I grow to like them more.
Is it shallow to look for a nice appearance at first? Perhaps - but what
else is there to go by before you get to know the person behind the mask?
With regards to finding a Domme, I admittedly don't have a great deal of
scene experience. But I do know that I'm not looking solely for 'The Look';
I most certainly am not simply searching for an experienced arbitress of
pain. The way my wires are crossed, I do find it *very* hard to say no to
an attractive lady (even a stranger) who approaches me and brandishes a
collar or a pair of handcuffes... But I --submit-- to someone because I
care for them, and regardless of whether they support my kinks, I want to
make them happy. Of course, it's nice if they do have something of BD /
dommish nature; and at a minimum they have to understand and accept my
quirks.
Heh. Sorry if this went on and rambled a bit - kindof my belated de-lurk ;)
-- Lawless (law...@netcom.com / ch...@novalink.com)
--
-- Some angels never had that far to fall....
Mic Bergen
experienced player, and I'm not sure if that affects my perceptions or not.
There, disclaimer in place.
I've always been somewhat wary of women who had "The Look". I've found that
by and large they're not very skilled (yes Akasha, I know there are
exceptions). The reason for this is that no matter how poorly they play,
they'll never have trouble finding partners. There is one professional
Dominatrix in the SF Bay Area who is without a doubt one of the most
beautiful women I've ever seen (note: I'm using the word 'beauty' here as
it's defined by popular fasion magazines and television), but she's not very
bright and she's a TERRIBLE player, IMHO. However, she never lacks for
clients or playmates.
I've always much preferred larger women, either in girth or height (or in
wonderful cases both). I really don't feel like I can let go with a dainty
top. I don't want to give my power to someone I could break with a good
hug!
For that matter, what really attracts me to a top is power. This is one of
those ethereal, difficult to define traits, but it's there nonetheless. I
have a lot of power, and if I'm gonna give it to someone, they'd better be
able to deal with it! I guess it just doesn't feel to me like 'Beautiful'
people have had to go through the self-discovery process that the rest of us
have (Yes, I know there are exceptions to this too).
Just some thoughts,
-Mic
--
==X=====X=====X=====X=====X=====X=====X=====X=====X=====X=====X=====X=====X
Michael C. Bergen | "This generally rapid unintelligible patter isn't
jes...@netcom.com | usually heard and if it is it doesn't matter." -G&S
==X=====X=====X=====X=====X=====X=====X=====X=====X=====X=====X===DOD #1070
aka...@netcom.com
>I guess it's finally time to add my $0.02 to this thread. I'm an active and
>experienced player, and I'm not sure if that affects my perceptions or not.
>There, disclaimer in place.
>
>I've always been somewhat wary of women who had "The Look". I've found that
>by and large they're not very skilled (yes Akasha, I know there are
>exceptions). The reason for this is that no matter how poorly they play,
Hmm..I don't know how this got referenced back to me. I sort of wanted
to jump in though and clarify...as far as experience goes -- I am not a
professional, I still consider myself in the early learning stages of
BDSM (even though the thoughts have been with me since an early age, and
I have played very regularly since my teen years). My experience is
different *areas* of bdsm is limited, as I am still learning and growing,
but I feel my experience in bdsm rights/wrongs is pretty intact and I
consider myself safe. And the passion is *definitely* there. I would
venture to guess that even a very beautiful Dominatrix with *excellent*
experience but no "real" interest in bdsm -- no passion for it -- would
not be nearly as exciting as a less experienced dom that was completely
into it. I would almost think that a dom that did everything "right" so
to speak would be somewhat like a robot. How can someone be so perfect
when you are dealing with fire, so to speak? (no fireplay reference
meant, heh). I don't think I have ever had a perfect scene, one where
the key wouldn't quite fit into the double locking slot on the handcuffs
the first try, or the blindfold looked a bit too crooked for my liking,
or a sudden feeling of guilt-ishness came over me and I had to take a
moment to get my head together while my sub looked at me blankly. Not
very polished. But *very* real. Without these feelings, I think bdsm
would be empty for me.
>they'll never have trouble finding partners. There is one professional
>Dominatrix in the SF Bay Area who is without a doubt one of the most
>beautiful women I've ever seen (note: I'm using the word 'beauty' here as
>it's defined by popular fasion magazines and television), but she's not very
>bright and she's a TERRIBLE player, IMHO. However, she never lacks for
>clients or playmates.
>
>I've always much preferred larger women, either in girth or height (or in
>wonderful cases both). I really don't feel like I can let go with a dainty
>top. I don't want to give my power to someone I could break with a good
>hug!
>
>For that matter, what really attracts me to a top is power. This is one of
>those ethereal, difficult to define traits, but it's there nonetheless. I
>have a lot of power, and if I'm gonna give it to someone, they'd better be
>able to deal with it! I guess it just doesn't feel to me like 'Beautiful'
>people have had to go through the self-discovery process that the rest of us
>have (Yes, I know there are exceptions to this too).
>
>Just some thoughts,
>-Mic
I have thought more about this, and there is something else though about
"the look" that comes into play. I think there is more attitude in bdsm
(from a dom p.o.v) than some people realize, and with out a large degree
of self-confidence you can be standing there with a whip in your hand and
not have the power to back your words. A lot of it is how you carry
yourself, how you present yourself. This might have nothing to do with
the clothes, or the tools. It has to do with how you feel about yourself
as a powerful, assertive person. It has to do with how you use your own
beauty, wherever *you* feel it lies, to promote the image of power.
You also need to be completely comfortable with your body as a dom, in my
opinion, because you have to use it. Not necessarily in a sexual way
(although of course that is true at times as well) but as part of your
whole image.
So, I think what I am trying to say here...(and going on and on about it
as usual, heh) -- self image is crucial to being a dom, in my opinion.
It has nothing to do with how you look to an outsider, it has to do with
how you look to yourself. I don't think a dom could pull it off without
that knowledge that her presence can make a man crumble, in one way or
another.
Lawless
[ Snip ]
: For that matter, what really attracts me to a top is power. This is one of
: those ethereal, difficult to define traits, but it's there nonetheless. I
: have a lot of power, and if I'm gonna give it to someone, they'd better be
: able to deal with it! I guess it just doesn't feel to me like 'Beautiful'
: people have had to go through the self-discovery process that the rest of us
: have (Yes, I know there are exceptions to this too).
: Just some thoughts,
: -Mic
: --
: ==X=====X=====X=====X=====X=====X=====X=====X=====X=====X=====X=====X=====X
: Michael C. Bergen | "This generally rapid unintelligible patter isn't
: jes...@netcom.com | usually heard and if it is it doesn't matter." -G&S
: ==X=====X=====X=====X=====X=====X=====X=====X=====X=====X=====X===DOD #1070
Didn't necessarily disagree with the rest, so I [snipped]. Regarding the
self-discovery process though.... I find it to be a truth that *most*
people, regardless of wealth, looks or education, have never truly gone
through that voyage of often painful self-examination. *Most* members of
the human race are shallow and refuse to take responsibility for their own
actions, much less their thoughts and feelings. Doesn't even really matter
whether they're straight/vanilla/religious/athiestic or 'perverse'.
Now, when it comes to ProDoms / FoxyDoms, possibly things change insofar as
a Pro has to have *something* going for them to keep patrons coming back;
the FoxyDom *can* get by without much experience/enthusiasm rather a bit
more easily than some others. Doesn't mean that they all do; doesn't mean
that the other non-FoxyDom Pros aren't in it just as solely for the money.
Doesn't mean that all ProDoms are in it for the money either, FWIW.