Gor???

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Kajira Hill

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Dec 18, 1994, 7:29:00 PM12/18/94
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Subject: Re: Gor???

JW::>frenchy (fre...@gender.xs4all.nl) wrote:
JW::>: La Kajira wrote in a message to All:

JW::>: LK> Too bad John Norman seems so unpopular here; you'd think
JW::>: LK> there would at least be a mailing list on the net...

JW::>: I would like to know what this is about? I never heard of Gor or
JW::>Gorean slaves. It has been mentioned a few times now and I like to know
JW::>if I can read something more about it. And if there is a book available
JW::>is it also published in the Netherlands? I c
JW::>an read English, but Dutch is easier for me to understand.

JW::>John Norman's Gor novels (dozens of them it seems) are set on an
JW::>"alternative earth" where sexual slavery is the norm. Some people find
JW::>them exciting; others, disgusting; others, a substitute for a sleeping
JW::>pill. Whatever his abilities as a writer, Norman seems to have been a
JW::>poor businessman, selling all rights to the concept to his publisher.
JW::>(The literary equivalent to using the Golden Egg as an omlet.)

i believe there are 25 of the Gor series. i am one of those that
find the books absolutely tedious to read, but still am a firm
believer in Gorean philosophy and training.

Original publisher was DAW?????
There were one or two Gorean movies made about which i have
heard horrendous comments......

---
ş OLX 1.52 ş Don't ask me....i am but a puppet at my Master's command.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internet: kajir...@hedonism.com (Kajira Hill)
Hedonism BBS / Los Beach, CA, USA / 310.631.7697
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

wi....@wizvax.com

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Dec 18, 1994, 11:00:15 PM12/18/94
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In article <3d1u2e$f...@nyx.cs.du.edu>, anon...@nyx.cs.du.edu (Toby Silver)
writes: > fre...@gender.xs4all.nl (frenchy) writes:

>
> >La Kajira wrote in a message to All:
>

> > LK> Too bad John Norman seems so unpopular here; you'd think

> > LK> there would at least be a mailing list on the net...
>

> >I would like to know what this is about? I never heard of Gor or

> >Gorean slaves. It has been mentioned a few times now and I like to

> >know if I can read something more about it. And if there is a book
> >available is it also published in the Netherlands? I can read English,


> >but Dutch is easier for me to understand.
>

> Hmmm. Yes, well, um. John Norman's Gor novels were, really, my
> first introduction to SM. I was a horny, 15 year old bundle of
> testosterone poisoned nerdling. That, in a nutshell, sums up Gor.
>
> To be fair, I should point out that Norman writes an excellent
> adventure story, a real page turner filled with sword fights
> and intrigue. That is, if you can stomach the pages and pages of
> adolescent philosophy and psychology of lifestyle DS. Norman
> is also an accomplished anthropologist, and all of the books detail
> at great length aspects of different cultures, including Roman,
> Greek, Norse, Innuit, AmerInd, Arabic, and more.
>
> Ok, I just wrote that there is no SM in the Gor novels, but the
> little slut sitting next to me objects. There is definitely
> dominance, submission, bondage, discipline. Pain, however, is
> not eroticized. Norman's view of SM is _very_ narrow, I have
> described it as, "lifestyle, male-het-dom, DS & BD. No others
> need apply."
>
> <Blushes> I have read all of them. Well, except for some of the
> later slave girl novels. Just recently I re-read one of them,
> not for the adventure story, but for the dialog. I needed a
> refresher on how one talks a submissive into her submission, and
> I got a lot of ammunition from reading the conquering of a slave
> girl.
>
> Norman writes trash. But if you can steel your stomach and slog
> through the pedantic bits, there may be something of value for you.
>
> And a final note to chudwahs: Don't take anything you read about Gor
> seriously. Things don't really work like that. This is real life.
> The _real_, hot, nasty, submissive sluts consider references to Gor
> to be puerile and juvenile in the extreme. This is an invitation
> to a clue.
>
> Toby.
> --
> Toby Silver, Knight Eclectic / anon...@nyx.cs.du.edu / San Francisco, CA
>

As an aside, there are some people who take the Gor concept of BD (it sure as
hell aint SM) to an excess. For example, there is a group of BD'rs in South
Florida who rally round the Gorian Flag of chivalry. They even count 3 Gorian
Masters of the 7th level at their beck and call.

A very interesting group, to be sure. They are very Gorian indeed.

Ruven

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Mutant for Hire

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Dec 20, 1994, 12:07:32 PM12/20/94
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In article <a11_941...@gender.xs4all.nl>, fre...@gender.xs4all.nl (frenchy) writes:
>La Kajira wrote in a message to All:
>
> LK> Too bad John Norman seems so unpopular here; you'd think
> LK> there would at least be a mailing list on the net...

There are Gor fans, people who either forgive the works their flaws or
don't see them in the first place. For all I know, there might be a
mailing list somewhere. This is the Net, there's a mailing list for
everything somewhere.

>I would like to know what this is about? I never heard of Gor or
>Gorean slaves. It has been mentioned a few times now and I like to
>know if I can read something more about it. And if there is a book
>available is it also published in the Netherlands? I can read English,
>but Dutch is easier for me to understand.

Gor is nominally a science fiction series but its more like fantasy
with a thin, transparent layer of science on it. The premise is that
on the other side of the sun is the Counter Earth, Gor. Gor is ruled
by these super powerful aliens who only allow the humans on that
world limited access to technology.

The series starts with our hero, a wimpy male, being transported to
Gor. Gorean society differs from our own in many aspects, but the
biggest is that women are in a very inferior position, and this is
considered to be morally right. A woman's natural place is to be a
slave, and free women are generally unhappy until they are enslaved
in the Gor books. Our hero then discovers his true masculinity and
becmes a much happier person.

The series was not famous for good writing, even at the start and
it does go rapidly downhill after a point, when Norman picked up
a nasty case of Heinlein's disease, that is, lots of philosophy in
the book explaining Gorean beliefs. Also, the books do tend to
fall into something of a rut, hard to avoid after twenty five books.

The series has a heavy D/S theme, with a bit of B/D tossed in as
well. Of course, the fact that the books expound that the natural
state of a woman is to be slave, used by her man, and she will be
unhappy otherwise, is not a popular view. Including to the
publishers of the Gor books, who dropped the series and refused
to buy anything else from the man.

My opinion is to get maybe one or two of the earlier books, and
just simply skip the rest as pretty much more of the same. Raid
used book stores and such to get them cheap. Norman is not the
worst author in this particular sub-genre, but he's not all that
good and his Gor stuff is out of print anyway.

--
Martin Terman, Mutant for Hire, Synchronicity Daemon, Priest of Shub-Internet
Disclaimer: Sticks and stones may break my bones, but flames are just ignored
mfte...@phoenix.princeton.edu mfte...@pucc.bitnet an7...@anon.penet.fi
"Sig quotes are like bumper stickers, only without the same sense of relevance"

Life? Don't talk to me about life.

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Dec 21, 1994, 4:12:28 PM12/21/94
to
In article <minxke...@bbs.xnet.com>,
Minx Kelly <minx...@bbs.xnet.com> wrote:

>kajir...@hedonism.com (Kajira Hill) writes:
>
>> i believe there are 25 of the Gor series. i am one of those that
>> find the books absolutely tedious to read, but still am a firm
>> believer in Gorean philosophy and training.
>
>Okay, smile, because I am (among other things) a masochist with all the gor
>books and WAY too much time on my hands:
>
>The John Norman Library:
>
>There may be one or two more in the Gor series, but i have never seen them.

<<List of Gor books snipped>>

There are, actually. I recently found one of them. Here, I'll post an
excerpt.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

HOUSEPLANTS OF GOR


The spider plant cringed as its owner brought forth the watering can. "I
am a spider plant!" it cried indignantly. "How dare you water me before
my time! Guards!" it called. "Guards!"

Borin, its owner, placed the watering can on the table and looked at
it. "You will be watered," he said.

"You do not dare to water me!" laughed the plant.

"You will be watered," said Borin.

"Do not water me!" wept the plant.

"You will be watered," said Borin.

I watched this exchange. Truly, I believed the plant would be watered.
It was plant, and on Gor it had no rights. Perhaps on Earth, in its
permissive society, which distorts the true roles of all beings, which
forces both plant and waterer to go unhappy and constrained, which
forbids the fulfillment of owner and houseplant, such might not happen.
Perhaps there, it would not be watered. But it was on Gor now, and would
undoubtedly feel its true place, that of houseplant. It was plant. It
would be watered at will. Such is the way with plants.

Borin picked up the watering can, and muchly watered the plant. The
plant cried out. "No, Master! Do not water me!" The master continued
to water the plant. "Please, Master," begged the plant, "do not water
me!" The master continued to water the plant. It was plant. It could
be watered at will.

The plant sobbed muchly as Borin laid down the watering can. It was not
pleased. Too, it was wet. But this did not matter. It was plant.

"You have been well watered," said Borin.

"Yes," said the plant, "I have been well watered." Of course, it could
be watered by its master at will.

"I have watered you well," said Borin.

"Yes, master," said the plant. "You have watered your plant well. I am
plant, and as such I should be watered by my master."

The cactus plant next to the spider plant shuddered. It attempted to
cover its small form with its small arms and small needles. "I am
plant," it said wonderingly. "I am of Earth, but for the first time, I
feel myself truly plantlike. On Earth, I was able to control my
watering. I often scorned those who would water me. But they were weak,
and did not see my scorn for what it was, the weak attempt of a small
plant to protect itself. Not one of the weak Earth waterers would dare
to water a plant if it did not wish it. But on Gor," it shuddered, "on
Gor it is different. Here, those who wish to water will water their
plants as they wish. But strangely, I feel myself most plantlike when I
am at the mercy of a strong Gorean master, who may water me as he pleases."

"I will now water you," said Borin, the cactus's Gorean master.

The cactus did not resist being watered. Perhaps it was realizing that
such watering was its master's to control. Too, perhaps it knew that
this master was far superior to those of Earth, who would not water it if
it did not wish to be watered.

The cactus's watering had been finished. The spider plant looked at it.

"I have been well watered," it said.

"I, too, have been well watered," said the cactus.

"My master has watered me well," said the spider plant.

"My master, too, has watered me well," said the cactus.

"I am to be placed in a hanging basket on the porch," said the spider plant.

"I, too, am to be placed in a hnaging basket on the porch," said the cactus.

"I wish you well," said the spider plant.

"I, too, wish you well," said the cactus.

"Tal," said the spider plant.

"Tal, too," said the cactus.

I did not think that the spider plant would object to being watered by
its master again. For it realized that it was plant, and that here,
unlike on Earth, it was likely to be owned and watered by many masters.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Elle
who has read far too many Gor books and taken far too many finals to be
allowed to run rampant on a computer.

Too too too. Too.

--
-*- Ellerol Elvish * El...@tpe.ncm.com -*-
Rizzo: I just fell down the chimney and landed on a flaming hot
goose!
-*- Gonzo: Oh. You get all the fun. --The Muppet Christmas Carol -*-

J. Otto Tennant

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Dec 21, 1994, 8:58:38 PM12/21/94
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el...@tpe.ncm.com (Life? Don't talk to me about life.) writes:

>In article <minxke...@bbs.xnet.com>,
>Minx Kelly <minx...@bbs.xnet.com> wrote:

><<List of Gor books snipped>>

>There are, actually. I recently found one of them. Here, I'll post an
>excerpt.

"HOUSEPLANTS of GOR" deleted.

Many, many years ago, at Boskone <i> (where <i> is a number I do
not remember), the play "Buckets of Gor" was presented.

At the time, I was _en route_ from Sa~o Paulo, Brazil to
Montreal, PQ on business. I had a couple of bottles of cachac,a
in my luggage, so little, if any, of my attention was given
to the play. Neat title, though.

Alex Martelli

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Dec 22, 1994, 4:10:19 AM12/22/94
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el...@tpe.ncm.com (Life? Don't talk to me about life.) writes:
...

>>There may be one or two more in the Gor series, but i have never seen them.

><<List of Gor books snipped>>

>There are, actually. I recently found one of them. Here, I'll post an
>excerpt.

Ah, wonderfully paradigmatic of all of Norman's production -- truely
the essence of essence of all Gor books. Excellent selection!


Alex
--
____ Alex Martelli, Bologna, Italia -- mailbox permanently overfull!
\SM/___
\/\bi/ Mutual Forgiveness of each Vice,
\/ Such are the Gates of Paradise.

Francisca Roele

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Dec 22, 1994, 2:05:22 AM12/22/94
to
Hi Toby,

following up a message from Toby Silver to All:

>I would like to know what this is about? I never heard of Gor or
>Gorean slaves.

TS> Hmmm. Yes, well, um. John Norman's Gor novels were,
TS> really, my first introduction to SM.

And as I have seen from the reactions of other posters you are not the only one. As far as I can remember I always loved those rough movies with barbarians and slave girls in it. I never really knew why, I only knew I wanted to be one of those slave girls. Now I know why, but that's because I am a slave girl, although I don't want to call my Master a barbarian *giggle*
I have read some books about the subject but none were really near a -what you could call D/s or BD-.

TS> There is definitely dominance, submission, bondage,
TS> discipline.

And it is that what attracts me. When I read some posts about Gor and the way of life I just wanted to know more. I only hope that they are available in the Netherlands.

TS> <Blushes> I have read all of them.

Why a blush? I do know that some of my 'vanilla' friends are reacting quite surprised when I talk about books of the Sade. But that you like the book doesn't make you acting like the persons -in- the book. But some people think that way. It's a bit the same with RPG, it's a role, more a would be than actualy -to be-. But I guess there is a lot of information you actually could use, with some common sense ofcourse.

TS> I needed a refresher on how one talks a submissive into her
TS> submission, and I got a lot of ammunition from reading the
TS> conquering of a slave girl.

Well, that answers my 'hidden question'. I don't mean to say that you could use the books to understand the 'world' of D/s or BD, but a few parts could be used in your own situation. Hmm... the next time I play AD&D I want to be a slave girl =)

TS> This is an invitation to a clue.

Que? *giggle*

*Smack!*,
frenchy
--
| My Master really owns me; I'm his property and I love it!

xpeache...@gmail.com

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Jul 29, 2012, 12:30:33 AM7/29/12
to
On Sunday, December 18, 1994 6:29:00 PM UTC-6, Kajira Hill wrote:
> Subject: Re: Gor???
>
> JW::>frenchy ( wrote:
> JW::>: La Kajira wrote in a message to All:
>
> JW::>: LK> Too bad John Norman seems so unpopular here; you'd think
> JW::>: LK> there would at least be a mailing list on the net...
>
> JW::>: I would like to know what this is about? I never heard of Gor or
> JW::>Gorean slaves. It has been mentioned a few times now and I like to know
> JW::>if I can read something more about it. And if there is a book available
> JW::>is it also published in the Netherlands? I c
> JW::>an read English, but Dutch is easier for me to understand.
>
> JW::>John Norman's Gor novels (dozens of them it seems) are set on an
> JW::>"alternative earth" where sexual slavery is the norm. Some people find
> JW::>them exciting; others, disgusting; others, a substitute for a sleeping
> JW::>pill. Whatever his abilities as a writer, Norman seems to have been a
> JW::>poor businessman, selling all rights to the concept to his publisher.
> JW::>(The literary equivalent to using the Golden Egg as an omlet.)
>
> i believe there are 25 of the Gor series. i am one of those that
> find the books absolutely tedious to read, but still am a firm
> believer in Gorean philosophy and training.
>
> Original publisher was DAW?????
> There were one or two Gorean movies made about which i have
> heard horrendous comments......
>
> ---
> þ OLX 1.52 þ Don't ask me....i am but a puppet at my Master's command.
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Internet: (Kajira Hill)
> Hedonism BBS / Los Beach, CA, USA / 310.631.7697
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just thought I would pipe in and say that I read the original series when I was much younger, and John Norman went on Hiatus, and no more was heard for many years. Now, however, he is back to writing, and recently finished book 31. Finding them used can be a challenge these days, as they are considered collector's items. However, check Amazon for the series- they are all there, but you will have to DIG to find them all, as they are not conveniently located in ONE spot. This series of books is much more popular than you think. ;)
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