Is this REALLY a bondage group or s/m?
John Gilbert
much of what I have read seems more concerned with s&m than with bondage per se.Should this group be split up accordingly, perhaps? Or is there some kind of
concensus that bondage qualifies as s&m. Personally, I don't really enjoy
pain--either inflicting or receiving--but I enjoy bondage, and I'm not particularly interested in hearing about others' activities with pain. Now it may be
arugued that ther pleasure that many people derive from bondege is related
to power and that power is the essential ingredient for s&m, but I still feel
that thsi group should be called alt.sex.snm.
I'm sorry if this might be a tired old subject which has been discussed to death before--if so just ignore this.
D. Glenn Arthur Jr.
apparently without carriage returns (*sigh*)):
> Now I admit I haven't read THAT much of this news group, but
> that's probably because much of what I have read seems more
> concerned with s&m than with bondage per se.
Ahh yes, we hear this complaint/observation from time to time.
Yes, it does seem we talk much more about SM than about "bondage",
perhaps because there _seems_ to be more to _say_ about SM, and
perhaps simply because the SM folks are more talkative and manage
to indimidate the "mere" bondage folks without meaning to.
I've been meaning to post some stuff about bondage, actually.
> Should this group be split up accordingly, perhaps? Or is there
> some kind of concensus that bondage qualifies as s&m.
I don't think the group should be split. We talk here about a
larger spectrum of BDSM that includes both SM and bondage, but also
D/S, mindfucks, and stuff that doesn't categorize well. While few
of us are into _everything_, many of us are into more than one aspect
at a time, and for many of us the different aspects overlap such that
it is impossible to really pull them apart.
Also please note that "vanilla" people don't usually consider biting
and tickling as "BDSM activities" (as far as I've observed) but that
many BDSM folk do. Is bondage SM? Hard to say. Depends on which side
of the street I'm standing on today, and whether it's before or after
noon.
> Personally, I don't really enjoy pain--either inflicting or receiving--
> but I enjoy bondage,
Good for you! While the world waits for me to get around to writing
about bondage, perhaps you'd be so kind as to step in and help fill the
gap? YOU ARE NOT ALONE. Now I happen to be somewhat interested in pain,
mostly from a D/S perspective (though I'm learning a bit about pain as
pain), and I'm _quite_ interested in hearing what others have to say about
it, but please remember what ought to be the first question in the FAQ:
Q: Am I the only one who ...
A: No, you're not. Now what was the rest of the question?
So if you write about bondage -- write about your experiences, your
fantasies, your desires, your preferences, philosophy, humour, whatever
-- if you write about it there will be someone else who wants to read it.
And maybe a conversation will start and you'll all be happy. And all of
us people who like to read about bondage _and_ pain will be happy too!
Make it even better -- make it easy for people like you, who don't want
to wade through all the pain stuff, to notice from teh subject lines
that you're talking about bondage.
> Now it may be arugued that ther pleasure that many people derive
> from bondege is related to power and that power is the essential
> ingredient for s&m, but I still feel that thsi group should be
> called alt.sex.snm.
Not only do different people get into different things, but different
people get into the same things to get different things out of them.
Perhaps this group could be named more appropriately, but for historical
reasons it'll continue to be called alt.sex.bondage. "Bondage" is often
used, depending on context, as an umbrella term anyhow. Perhaps too
often, as it does sometimes make it harder to be clear that one really
does mean _bondage_. (That's why I like "BDSM" as an umbrella term.)
> I'm sorry if this might be a tired old subject which has been
> discussed to death before--if so just ignore this.
Yeah, it's been discussed before. What I'm telling you is that you
should _write_ about bondage, _make_ this a "bondage too" newsgroup.
I was surprised at how little followup there was to the questions
about sleeping tied (I'll get around to my own post about that real
soon now, honest).
So tell me -- tell us -- _what_ do you like about being tied up or
tying up a lover? What do you like to do/have done while the ropes
are in place? Do you just get off on the feeling of restraint, or
does it enhance other pleasures? Or both? How do you like to be tied?
Is there a visual component to your pleasure? Do you prefer ropes or
chains? Do you ever indulge in self-bondage?
How does it make you feel? Can you describe the emotions it brings up?
Talk to me about bondage.
--
D. Glenn Arthur Jr. The Human Vibrator gl...@digex.com
"Being a _man_ means knowing that one has a choice not to act like a 'man'."
I'm currently way behind on my personal email, as well as mailing lists and
newsgroups. I'm not ignoring you, I'm just behind.
Rhia
> So tell me -- tell us -- _what_ do you like about being tied up or
> tying up a lover? What do you like to do/have done while the ropes
> are in place? Do you just get off on the feeling of restraint, or
> does it enhance other pleasures? Or both? How do you like to be
> tied? Is there a visual component to your pleasure? Do you prefer
> ropes or chains? Do you ever indulge in self-bondage?
Since you asked... <grin> I prefer chains to ropes. Ropes tend to
be scratchy and rough, and there's something very sensual to me about
the cold chill of chains. Perhaps it's because of those tacky novels
I used to read in the bathtub as I was growing up, but it seems I've
always equated chains with being abducted and held prisoner by some
dashing romantic figure who would break through my virginal barriers
(metaphorically speaking, of course) and teach me about loving.
The sound and the weight of chains is a constant reminder of my
helplessness, in scene. And, as my sometime play-partner commented,
using chains instead of rope indicates a deeper level of trust on
both parties, since chains are much harder to get out of in a hurry
or in an emergency situation, especially in positions like I usually
find myself - tightly spread so I can feel the tension on my muscles.
Chains are good for mind-fucks too, if you don't mind the possibility
of damage to your furniture. Once, as I was spread-eagled on my play
partner's bed, blindfolded, he dribbled about 20 lbs of ice cold (as
in refrigerated) chains onto my bare belly. And I bent his steel bed
frame. <snicker>
> How does it make you feel? Can you describe the emotions it brings up?
Personally, I find bondage releasing. I can't do more than react - I
can't touch back... I can do only what my top wants, or safeword out.
So I find that I respond entirely differently in that respect, and
it's been illuminating, as I explore an aspect of my own sexuality
that had heretofore been hidden from me.
Rhia
---
"Let joy and innocence prevail." -- from the movie "Toys"
Alex Martelli
...
> Ropes tend to be scratchy and rough,
Well, not the "right" kind of ropes, such as some varieties sold in
sporting goods stores for sailing - those can be light and smooth,
while still unbreakably strong (sorry, but I lack the technical
English term to describe that sort of rope!).
I can hardly gainsay others of your observations on chains vs ropes,
and I'll add one: chains are easier to prepare in such a way that
at the opportune moment they can be snapped into place quickly and
without need for any particular skill on the top's part; ropes tend
to be slower *and* require knotting skills. Personally, I can just
handle those few basic knots needed for the most elementary sorts
of rope bondage, though I stand in awe of *real* experts in the field.
Me, I think chains are often better to *feel the bond themselves*:
heavier, clanky, probably richer with psychological overtones, more
apt to provide intense thermical sensations, and so on. However,
even in bondage proper, one does not always want that: sometimes
the aspect of bondage that is desired is the *immobilization*, the
"you aren't going anywhere" effect, and *then* the unobtrusive
qualities of (the right sort of) rope become an advantage instead.
One can be tied *very* securely and yet in such a way that not
only the skin won't chafe, but one's not even going to *feel* the
rope until and unless one should try to change position... "99.4%
pure restraining effect".
And then, as I discovered but recently, there are advanced varieties
of bondage positions that can have a surprisingly powerful spiritual
effect, much as certain sorts of physical positions used in Yoga can;
these, I surmise, need rope's qualities. But stay tuned to my
"trip to SF" series until I get to the post about Sunday 21, which
at the present rhythm should be by Christmas or so:-), for a first
hand report...
Alex
--
Alex Martelli - Bologna, Italia - also al...@am.sublink.org (less reliable)
One thought fills immensity.
Phaedrus
In <xandor.7...@unixg.ubc.ca>, xan...@unixg.ubc.ca (John Gilbert )
questions:
> Now I admit I haven't read THAT much of this news group, but that's
> probably be cause much of what I have read seems more concerned with
> s&m than with bondage per se.
Depends on the season. Sometimes all you get here is bondage,
sometimes s&m, sometimes flirting, sometimes flamewars. And the mix
changes constantly. I remember a couple of months where it seemed like
fisting fans had Taken Over asb. ;) When I first started reading the
net (back when the internet backbone was composed of a string of pony
express riders and horses ;) ), the mix was mostly bondage.
> Personally, I don't really enjoy pain--either inflicting or
> receiving--but I enjoy bondage, and I'm not particula rly interested
> in hearing about others' activities with pain.
If you would like more bondage discussions here, start 'em! Ask
questions, relate experiences, discuss techniques you've enjoyed.
Heavens. Dive in headfirst into the mud with the rest of us, rather
than draw a line and say "Youse guys stay on your side of the mud, and
us guys will stay on our side of the mud."
You don't like reading about pain? S'ok. Don't read those articles. I
personally shy away from the flamewars. But, be warned xandor (if I
may call you that), I started out here as an experienced bondage-only
person and was seduced by the Dark Side of ASB. (Thank you again,
STella and Cassandra and Dances-With-Aardvarks and Amethyst and SiLK
and Josh and Harry and Wolfie and.....goodness....)
> I'm sorry if this might be a tired old subject which has been
> discussed to death before--if so just ignore this.
Nah. It is good, I think, to re-ask old questions. A new answer
might come up.
Phaedrus
Champaign-Urbana, Illinois
"The experience is determined by the person's mental state, the structure
of his or her personality, the physical setting, and cultural influences."
== _Lila_ Robert Pirsig
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Solaris Gato
using chains rather than rope. It is solid, rather unyielding, and there
is nothing like the sound of chains when you are your playpartner make them
move against each other.
I, personally, think that Chains get all too little mention in any of the
'instructional' books on B&D out there. And most of the B&D/S&M GIFs and
JPGs that I see all have the bottom in rope. Too few are in chain.
A receint book I read, SM101 by Jay Wiseman, concentrates on ropes too, and
finally gave me some good reasons why. Mainly, you can CUT rope. A good pair
of Paramedic Sisors and off it comes. With Chain you really should have bolt
cutters around... just like you should if you use handcuffs a lot. Or a VERY
good hacksaw.
However, between the lines in what little he DID say about chains, there was
the undercurret that those that play with chains need to TRUST each other
even more. And it is that all encompasing TRUST that flows between loving
play partners that makes it all so special.
I am NOT putting down using rope, mind you. Just mentioning the lack of
discussion of chain...
Oh, and Rhia, sometime we are going to need to attach you to the bed around the
other direction.... so you can get my bed back bent the other way again.
Oh, and I will see if I can scare up my copy of SM-101 and quote 1500 words or
less from the section on chains (quoting of up to 1500 words is specifically
allowed in his copyright notice so long as one sends Mr Wiseman a copy of the
quote) Anyone know if Jay Wiseman is on the net?
Rhia
> Well, not the "right" kind of ropes, such as some varieties sold in
> sporting goods stores for sailing - those can be light and smooth,
> while still unbreakably strong (sorry, but I lack the technical
> English term to describe that sort of rope!).
I know of some very soft ropes, solid cotton, which I attempted to
use for macrame, once upon a time, but this variety tended to stretch
too much to be usable for tying someone up. I suppose some talented
person could macrame hir bottom into interesting patterns with it,
but for serious *restraint*, something like mountain climbing rope
would be more appropriate.
> I can hardly gainsay others of your observations on chains vs ropes,
> and I'll add one: chains are easier to prepare in such a way that at
> the opportune moment they can be snapped into place quickly and
> without need for any particular skill on the top's part; ropes tend
> to be slower *and* require knotting skills. Personally, I can just
> handle those few basic knots needed for the most elementary sorts of
> rope bondage, though I stand in awe of *real* experts in the field.
True, Alex, but we found out that trying to find the end of the chain
that has the double-ended snap hook on it while trying to keep my
bottom from tickling me with his free toe could be hilarious in
itself. Chains can be used in interesting patterns, too, so long as
you have enough connectors.
> Me, I think chains are often better to *feel the bond themselves*:
> heavier, clanky, probably richer with psychological overtones, more
> apt to provide intense thermical sensations, and so on.
Oh definitely!
> However, even in bondage proper, one does not always want that:
> sometimes the aspect of bondage that is desired is the
> *immobilization*, the "you aren't going anywhere" effect, and *then*
> the unobtrusive qualities of (the right sort of) rope become an
> advantage instead. One can be tied *very* securely and yet in such a
> way that not only the skin won't chafe, but one's not even going to
> *feel* the rope until and unless one should try to change position...
> "99.4% pure restraining effect".
With enough chain, it's easy to discover you're not going anywhere.
<grin> We used to wonder what went through my top's mother's mind
when she happened to visit the apartment and noticed the chains piled
under the corners of the bed... earthquake stability, perhaps?
> And then, as I discovered but recently, there are advanced varieties
> of bondage positions that can have a surprisingly powerful spiritual
> effect, much as certain sorts of physical positions used in Yoga can;
> these, I surmise, need rope's qualities. But stay tuned to my
> "trip to SF" series until I get to the post about Sunday 21, which
> at the present rhythm should be by Christmas or so:-), for a first
> hand report...
Waiting for your next reports like the proverbial cat at the
mousehole...
Rhia
(meow!)
Rhia
> I have to agree with Rhia. There is something very, very intimate
> about using chains rather than rope. It is solid, rather unyielding,
> and there is nothing like the sound of chains when you are your
> playpartner make them move against each other.
The sounds of chains can be wonderfully erotic. <sidewards glance at
averti and a wink>
> A receint book I read, SM101 by Jay Wiseman, concentrates on ropes
> too, and finally gave me some good reasons why. Mainly, you can CUT
> rope. A good pair of Paramedic Sisors and off it comes. With Chain
> you really should have bolt cutters around... just like you should if
> you use handcuffs a lot. Or a VERY good hacksaw.
Good point. The well-equipped BDSM household should always have a
set of bolt cutters under the bed. <grin>
> However, between the lines in what little he DID say about chains,
> there was the undercurret that those that play with chains need to
> TRUST each other even more. And it is that all encompasing TRUST that
> flows between loving play partners that makes it all so special.
I couldn't agree more.
> Oh, and Rhia, sometime we are going to need to attach you to the bed
> around the other direction.... so you can get my bed back bent the
> other way again.
Promises... promises! <grin> What makes you think you can get the
same reaction out of me now, as you did back then?
> Oh, and I will see if I can scare up my copy of SM-101 and quote 1500
> words or less from the section on chains (quoting of up to 1500 words
> is specifically allowed in his copyright notice so long as one sends
> Mr Wiseman a copy of the quote) Anyone know if Jay Wiseman is on the
> net?
I'd love to see the quote - eventually I'll get a chance to read the
book.
Rhia
(still trying to figure out just how starcat proposes to attach me to
his bed so as to bend it the other way again)
Solaris Gato
>Promises... promises! <grin> What makes you think you can get the
>same reaction out of me now, as you did back then?
>
>book.
>
>Rhia
>(still trying to figure out just how starcat proposes to attach me to
>his bed so as to bend it the other way again)
>
About the only way you are going to find out, love is to wander into my
lair again... nipplering-bells a-ringing.
As for the quote from SM 101... I will keep looking...
Starcat
Elf Sternberg
xan...@unixg.ubc.ca (John Gilbert ) writes:
>Now I admit I haven't read THAT much of this news group, but that's
>probably because much of what I have read seems more concerned with
>s&m than with bondage per se.Should this group be split up accordingly,
>perhaps? Or is there some kind of concensus that bondage qualifies as
>s&m.
Well, as you asked, yes, this subject has been done to death. But
that's no reason not ot bring it up again; it's been about six months,
which is the lifespan of a running discussion's hiatus.
Yes, bondage is generally regarded as a part of the s/m/leather/
fetish scene. It does constitute an exchange of power, and it is a
more "unusual," more obscure form of lovemaking.
We don't just talk about s/m here, you know. We talk about bondage,
fetishes, dressing for pleasure, role playing... none of which have
much to do with pain. I happen to like bondage without pain; I like
having sex while tied up or when my wife is tied up, and it doesn't
have to involve pain. I like the sense of control, or loss thereof,
that occurs during bondage.
>I still feel that thsi group should be called alt.sex.snm.
It's hard to actually "rename" a newsgroup. You could perhaps make
a new newsgroups, alt.sex.s&m, but I doubt it would get many adherents.
In comparison to alt.sex, alt.sex.bondage is a serious, legitimate
newsgroup; we rarely get flamewars over the kinds of subjects that can
run for months on alt.sex. We have been using alt.sex.bondage for
years as our "safe place."
If you want discussions of bondage, talk about bondage! We tend to
call your complaint The Bond Syndrome, first identified by Clay Bond,
an old and respected a.s.b.'er. He said that whenever more than 15% of
a given newsgroup concentrates on one subject, the rest of the
newsgroup complains that the people discussion that subject have "taken
over" the newsgroup.
Get a real newsreader and learn to use your killfile. Be ready to
decide, to think for yourself, what it is you want to read and what
you don't want to read.
Elf !!!
--
e...@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg)
"The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure pure
reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little pratice, writing can be
an intimidating and impenetrable fog!" - Bill Watterson's Calvin.
Rhia
From sta...@netcom.com (Solaris Gato):
> > Promises... promises! <grin> What makes you think you can get the
> > same reaction out of me now, as you did back then?
> >
> > Rhia
> > (still trying to figure out just how starcat proposes to attach me to
> > his bed so as to bend it the other way again)
>
> About the only way you are going to find out, love is to wander into my
> lair again... nipplering-bells a-ringing.
>
> Starcat
One way to initiate or respond to a wanna is with humor and flirtation.
Of course, this isn't just *any* wanna, but from one of my play partners.
It's still fun, though.
Rhia
(who would consider taking starcat up on it if she wasn't so full of
strawberries)
Alan Smith
>much of what I have read seems more concerned with s&m than with bondage per se.Should this group be split up accordingly, perhaps? Or is there some kind of
>concensus that bondage qualifies as s&m. Personally, I don't really enjoy
>pain--either inflicting or receiving--but I enjoy bondage, and I'm not particularly interested in hearing about others' activities with pain. Now it may be
>arugued that ther pleasure that many people derive from bondege is related
>to power and that power is the essential ingredient for s&m, but I still feel
>that thsi group should be called alt.sex.snm.
Well, maybe. But there's more than a slight amount of overlap between the BD,
DS, and SM parts, (And I have a sneaking suspicion that there's another
dimension we haven't named yet) and I think we would lose too much if we split
the group up.
On the other hand, we could always put stuff in the keywords line about which
branch of the whole control-perversion system we're discussing.
Big Al. Really hoping he didn't just start a flamewar. It was just a
suggestion.
Sean W Figgins
> Get a real newsreader and learn to use your killfile. Be ready to
>decide, to think for yourself, what it is you want to read and what
>you don't want to read.
What is a "real newsreader"? I use nn cause I like it better than rn
or vn. I've been reading this group for about 2 years and only read about
10% of the posts, and I have no problem skipping over the subjects that I
don't care to read. (An advantage of nn over rn is you get to see the
subject before you get the article on the screen.)
Now, what do I think of this groups content? I think that it is well off
all by itself. To try to change it, or limit it would only cause more
problems than it could solve.
I like bondage, and domination, but I'm not so sure about pain. I have
too much pain in everyday life, and don't think I'd want any more added
to that. I don't care what everyone else likes, it's their business, no?
--
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Sean W Figgins
>I, personally, think that Chains get all too little mention in any of the
>'instructional' books on B&D out there. And most of the B&D/S&M GIFs and
>JPGs that I see all have the bottom in rope. Too few are in chain.
Where can one obtain these books? What books are regarded as the best
books for bondage technique?
Alex Martelli
>e...@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg) writes:
>> Get a real newsreader and learn to use your killfile. Be ready to
>What is a "real newsreader"? I use nn cause I like it better than rn
Ditto: I also prefer nn, and it IS a *very* real newsreader...
>or vn. I've been reading this group for about 2 years and only read about
>10% of the posts, and I have no problem skipping over the subjects that I
>don't care to read. (An advantage of nn over rn is you get to see the
>subject before you get the article on the screen.)
And the author, too. Another advantage is that killfiling and
autoselecting are *extrenmely* easy, and the file with the killing and
selecting gets compiled so it runs *extremely* fast - although it isn't
as general and powerful as rn's killfiling.
>Now, what do I think of this groups content? I think that it is well off
>all by itself. To try to change it, or limit it would only cause more
>problems than it could solve.
For what it's worth, I agree with you on this.
>I like bondage, and domination, but I'm not so sure about pain. I have
>too much pain in everyday life, and don't think I'd want any more added
Actually I find in-scene, consensual pain acts as a counterpoison
to "everyday life"'s nonconsensual one, in a sense.
>to that. I don't care what everyone else likes, it's their business, no?
Well, I'm often curious about others' preferences, if they do choose to
reveal them. Time and again the question comes up, "am I the only one
who...", and it's often reassuring that the answer's always "NO, you're
NOT alone".
Fantasey Realization BBS
Stephanie da Silva
>
> I know of some very soft ropes, solid cotton, which I attempted to
> use for macrame, once upon a time, but this variety tended to stretch
> too much to be usable for tying someone up.
Mauser has tied me up with two different kinds of rope -- the thick, braided
nylon kind and a very long, very soft cotton rope that he used to tie me up
in a Japanese harness with. (That doesn't parse, I know, but it's late).
Both were rather comfy. I especially liked the feel of the nylon rope wrapped
around my upper torso, with my arms secured behind my back.
He too, is into chains, moreso than I am. Padlocks too, for some reason.
One time he chained me and locked me up with like 6 or 8 padlocks. Talk
about overkill, but if he likes it, who am I to say? Handcuffs and leg
irons too, but they're not as fun as the chains and padlocks, which have
so many different combinations.
He's more into the bondage side, I'm more into the pain. What's funny is
he's the one who introduced me to pain. Before I met him in person, I used
to fantasize about him tying me up. Now I fantasize about him tying me
up and flogging me, or tying me up and cropping me, or tying me up and
whipping me....
--
Stephanie da Silva ari...@taronga.com
Dragonbreath
Do *you* isolate bondage as something unto itself or do you mix it with
other elements?
I see little point to bondage without it being part of some sort of
scene, but maybe I'm generous in my definition of scene; Making love
in the grass, or on the floor of whatever room we started groping one
another have some elements of 'scene' in them to me. Bondage scenes
where I'm the receiver usually revolve around sex, teasing and the
kind of submission that is a part of being teased. Scenes where I'm
the giver vary depending on what the receiver has wanted. I expect I
could do a reasonable approximation of a classic S/M top if I was
with someone who wanted me to, but I've only done bondage and teasing
with one partner and light trances to intensify things with another
to date.
Dragonbreath
Thoth
ACS-Name: Thoth
Alex writes:
> ropes tend
>to be slower *and* require knotting skills. Personally, I can just
>handle those few basic knots needed for the most elementary sorts
>of rope bondage, though I stand in awe of *real* experts in the field.
Agreed. Personally, I prefer ropes because one can achieve intricate
patterns with them. No, I'm not that good, but it's fun to try.
Also, my SO and I like the anticipation when I take the time in
threading her up.
>Me, I think chains are often better to *feel the bond themselves*:
>heavier, clanky, probably richer with psychological overtones,
One reason I don't use chains is because of psychological overtones.
My SO is very timid, and she finds chains too overwhelming psychologically.
*shrug*
Of course, we also like the (semi-)Accidental Sex Toys(tm). Cloth
strips, scarves, latex tubing, long shoe laces, telephone wires, duct
tape, Saran Wrap, belts, Bungee Cords, Velcro strips, etc.
<<< THOTH >>> KNOT!
Edward M. Averett
>sporting goods stores for sailing - those can be light and smooth,
>while still unbreakably strong (sorry, but I lack the technical
>English term to describe that sort of rope!).
Um. . ..My favorite ropes are those one gets at a outdoorsman sporting
store that sells. . . ..Mountain-climbing ropes. They are
incredibly strong, you can purchase them at arbitrarily long lengths,
many are multi-colored, they are *soft*, but they have an excellent
*bite* (which is to say the rope is very slightly tacky and grips well
to whatever it touches, and it also is much more tacky when it touches
itself which is handy in say. . .breast bondage), and you can get them
in a wide variety of thicknesses, so you can get exactly the right
diameter for any individual purpose.
the bad part is that they're not cheap. . .but hey.
I still find that a rawhide lariat of an 8 or 12 braid (in as small a
diameter you can get) is one of the few true pleasures on earth. .and
for that matter, rawhide which has been cut circular rather than
square is divine stuff, and nearly unfindable (sigh). I may have to
visit Argentina one day just to get good rawhide again, since in
this country the only really good stuff you can be sure of getting is
that which you make yourself. Oh well.
I had a lady once who took common nylon hemp-style cording from a
hardware stuff (that white stuff that unravels so badly unless you
melt the ends), folded a .5 inch strip of velvet in half, ran it through
her sewing machine, turned it inside out, and threaded the cord through
it. Voila. .instant velvet rope.
Old fashioned silk parachute cording is another good alternative, and
the same lady above had an 8' rope made of horses tail hair.
Rope. ..the essence of versatility. ..
-Bunny with a cowboy hat
Fred @ Fantasy Realization BBS
pencil dragon
Just for John's edification. It appears that a majority of people who
actually POST on asb are into the pain thing (I, for the record, am not).
As the saying goes, "there are two types of people in this world; people
who split people into different groups, and those who don't". It is a matter
of opinion whether s/m'ers are bondagers or not. I believe that although the
former could be separated from the latter based on their interest in pain
rather than restaint, there is enough overlap that the border is blurred.
I have had some experience topping bdsm bottoms, and the fact that I top
mentally and use creative restaint is usually a new and intriguing
experience for them (intriguing, not because it's better than being beaten,
but because it's new to them), and enjoyable. Could it be said that
their usual treatment becomes "vanilla" when they become topped in this
manner? Only they can tell.
HUGS
--
from pencildragon at
Darkstar Graphics
P.O.Box 369
Weymouth,MA 02188
Mark Terka
xan...@unixg.ubc.ca (John Gilbert ) writes:
> Now I admit I haven't read THAT much of this news group, but that's probably because
>much of what I have read seems more concerned with s&m than with bondage per se.Should this group be split up accordingly, perhaps? Or is there some kind of
>concensus that bondage qualifies as s&m. Personally, I don't really enjoy
Well, MAYBE to the purists out there, there is a difference between D&B
and S&M, but I think most will agree with me in saying that there is
enough of a cross-over (blurring of the lines???) to keep the two groups
under one roof in the alt.sex.bondage news group.
----->|* WEREWOLF!
Tony Kidson
>itself. Chains can be used in interesting patterns, too, so long as
>you have enough connectors.
>
>> Me, I think chains are often better to *feel the bond themselves*:
>> heavier, clanky, probably richer with psychological overtones, more
>> apt to provide intense thermical sensations, and so on.
>
>Oh definitely!
As a contribution to this conveersation, can I point out something that
you may if you wish dismiss as pure paranoia? I think I posted this
before but nbody commented. I was in a 'proper' tool shop in the
Tottenham Court Road in London, looking for some unusual sized
spanners (wrenches), and naturrally was looking at the items to see
whether any of them could be perverted for use as bondage equipment. I
noticed that they also sold several different types and weight of
chain. Being interested and looking for some 'lay flat' chain (the
type with the twisted links), I went and inspected their stock. I
boticed that *every* type of chain they sold, had the links welded in
such a way as to make the join stick out and have a very sharp edge.
It struck me that this would make it entirely unsuitable for bondage
play, as it would probably produce appalling injuries. Converting it
would be almost impossible as each link would need to be individually
groudnd and filed. Is somebody deliberately making it like this, or is
it just a cost saving exercise? Am I being paranoid?
Tony
+---------------+------------------------------+-------------------------+
|Tony Kidson | ** PGP 2.2 Key by request ** |Voice +44 81 466 5127 |
|Morgan Towers, | The Cat has had to move now |E-Mail(in order) |
|Morgan Road, | as I've had to take the top |to...@morgan.demon.co.uk |
|Bromley, | off of the machine. |t...@cix.compulink.co.uk |
|England BR1 3QE|Honda ST1100 -=<*>=- DoD# 0801|10002...@compuserve.com|
+---------------+------------------------------+-------------------------+
Ellen Rosenberg
: tying up a lover?
i like the slow and deliberate transfer of control. it's not easy for me to
give away control but it's something i desire greatly (from time to time [al-
though more and more often ;)]). i like tangible evidence that i belong to
him.
as for tying up duke, i've only done that once, to date. he was so beautiful
lying there, tied. it was very moving. i felt that he had given me a tremendous
gift.
: What do you like to do/have done while the ropes
: are in place?
i like to be caressed, kissed, teased, talked to, licked, bit, rubbed,
commanded, led about, tightly secured, fucked, lots of things. :)
: Do you just get off on the feeling of restraint, or
: does it enhance other pleasures? Or both?
the silk is certainly a good feeling on my wrists, ankles, waist, eyes, etc.
hmm... yes, there's more. i do get off on the feeling of restraint in and of
itself but i wouldn't want to leave it at that. i think i've come to associate
restraint with sex. where i don't mind being tied and left for a bit (in fact,
that can be delicious), i wouldn't want that to be the full extent of it.
: How do you like to be tied?
with silk scarves. to beds (spread eagle either face up or face down), to
anchor points above my head, over chairs, over tables,...
answer 2:
decisively.
answer 3:
so that my blood can flow freely but i can't come loose easily. actually,
i like a little play in the scarves. it's nice to have some range of motion
but still feel resistance.
: Is there a visual component to your pleasure?
do i like to see the ties? sometimes. i have been shown myself in the mirror,
once tied, and it's pretty heady stuff. on the other hand, a blindfold can
be a glorious thing. i think duke enjoys seeing me tied and that pleases me.
: Do you prefer ropes or
: chains?
i prefer scarves. for the erotic look value, i'd have to rank chains above
ropes.
: Do you ever indulge in self-bondage?
i've found myself, more than once, drawing my wrists together to offer duke
for tying when i was alone and lost in thought. i've also tied myself to his
bed. his for the taking.
: How does it make you feel? Can you describe the emotions it brings up?
hot. intoxicated. sexy. wanted. his. treasured. free.
-ellenr
--
-----------------------------------------------
\ "I like reality. It tastes of bread." \
\ --Jean Anouilh \
-----------------------------------------------
Rhia
> As a contribution to this conveersation, can I point out something that
> you may if you wish dismiss as pure paranoia? I think I posted this
> before but nbody commented. I was in a 'proper' tool shop in the
> Tottenham Court Road in London, looking for some unusual sized
> spanners (wrenches), and naturrally was looking at the items to see
> whether any of them could be perverted for use as bondage equipment. I
> noticed that they also sold several different types and weight of
> chain. Being interested and looking for some 'lay flat' chain (the
> type with the twisted links), I went and inspected their stock. I
> boticed that *every* type of chain they sold, had the links welded in
> such a way as to make the join stick out and have a very sharp edge.
> It struck me that this would make it entirely unsuitable for bondage
> play, as it would probably produce appalling injuries. Converting it
> would be almost impossible as each link would need to be individually
> groudnd and filed. Is somebody deliberately making it like this, or is
> it just a cost saving exercise? Am I being paranoid?
I don't think it's deliberate, Tony, but I have noticed the same thing
with much of the chain at various hardware stores. I would guess, offhand,
that the manufacturers figure that treestumps and fences don't care about
a little nonconsentual scraping and scarring from the rough edges.
I've had some luck at the local Orchard Supply with a particular kind of
chain that's been plated after welding - the joints are reasonably smooth
and the chain doesn't scrape. Brass chains similar to the kind of ornamental
chain used to hang swag lamps, but with welds, are also nice - the brass
platings is put on afterwards, and tends to smooth down any imperfections.
Rhia
(inspecting her collection of chains)
---
"Let joy and innocence prevail." -- from the movie "Toys"
"Don't you ever get tired of using the same .sig?" -- anonymous emailer
Magician
to...@morgan.demon.co.uk (Tony Kidson) writes:
>.... *every* type of chain they sold, had the links welded in
> such a way as to make the join stick out and have a very sharp edge.
> It struck me that this would make it entirely unsuitable for bondage
> play, as it would probably produce appalling injuries.
At a guess, Tony, that would be "engineering" chain.
What you need to look for is either "domestic" chain (you get it in
DIY shops or even garden centres, for making up fences and hanging
people^H^H^H^H^H^H ..err.. garden ornaments and furniture from. ;-)
Alternatively, patronise a marine chandlery (my maritime streak
appearing again!) and look for light anchor chain. It often has to be
paid out/hauled in by hand, so has to have smooth edges. They also
tend to stock a good range of fixtures and fittings to attach it to/with,
and, of course, lots of rope...
--
-------------------------------------------------------
Magician magi...@dktower.demon.co.uk
"The Sage across the water"
-------------------------------------------------------
Tony Kidson
>At a guess, Tony, that would be "engineering" chain.
Well, I suppose it was, being an engineering shop. What do they use it
for though?
>Alternatively, patronise a marine chandlery
Funny you should say that. We have a quite good yacht chandlers here
in Bromley, which considering our distance from the sea is quite
remarkable. The only problem is that it's a bit of a 'hooray henry'
sort of place and correspondingly expensive. I've got to lay in some
stock soon, to 'accomodate' my expected sweet visitor. :-)
Tony [sailing close to the wind]